On the latest episode of 1st & 25, we devote the entire discussion to the suspension of referee Adrian Hill and line judge Jeff Seeman.

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:54 Jeff Seeman F-bomb
• 5:43 There’s an F in field
• 13:18 Adrian Hill suspension
• 17:27 Precedent of suspensions

On the premiere episode of the third season of 1st & 25, Ben draws a taunting foul, but fortunately was not ejected from the podcast.

• 1:15 Retirement of Steve Shaw
• 3:10 Philosophical questions about the use of replay
• 5:05 False start on the QB for abrupt movement
• 7:43 Replay of the clock in Western Michigan-Michigan
• 17:23 Throwing motion and a passer’s intent

On the season finale of the 1st & 25 podcast, we looked at how Shawn Smith and his all-star crew did in Super Bowl LX.

We also discussed the effect of the dynamic kickoffs over the past 2 seasons, how digital measurements worked this year, a plea for an enforcement change on sideline interference, a changing a guard in the NFL officiating elite, and the number of ejections this season.

To end the season, we have our all-star crew at the roundtable: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have the discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

The postseason assignments can be found here: Wild Card | Divisional | Conference Championships | Super Bowl LX

A list of ejections is maintained by our partner site Quirky Research.

What was said between coach Mike Vrabel and side judge Eugene Hall? We have Jomboy to thank for the breakdown.

This play was a correct no-call by third-year field judge Jason Ledet.

On the Conference Championship edition of the 1st & 25 podcast, we took a look how the all-star crews faired in the title games, what went right, and what went wrong.

We also discussed how there were a sizable number of officials that did not earn a playoff assignment, consistent with the numbers last postseason. This reflects a shift that vice president of officiating Ramon George has implemented under his tenure to have increased accountability for officials in earning these assignments. On the flip side, there were a few officials that earned triple assignments in the postseason.

This week, it’s our all-star crew at the roundtable: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have the discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we took a look back at the Divisional Playoffs and the National Championship Game.

The process of the catch was debated on social media this week, comparing the calls in two games. Are they identical plays? Also, judging by some of the overtime pass interference calls, did the officials insert themselves into the game? We addressed both topics.

And, it’s the most wonderful time of the year, as we reviewed the all-star crews assigned to the Conference Championships and the Super Bowl.

We also had some quick takes on officiating a game with a banged-up playoff team, how the bowl games showed possible differences in officiating philosophies, a rare occurrence for line judge Rusty Baynes and side judge Allen Baynes, and the opinion post at Awful Announcing that the rules analyst position should be retired.

This week, it’s a full crew: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have the discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, postseason football is in full swing, and we noticed that there was very little said about officiating for the Wild Card Playoffs and the playoff bowl games.

We also looked at current NFL system of assigning mixed crews as opposed to placing a regular season crew on each game and why this is the best method of handling playoff assignments. We also look ahead to the Divisional Playoffs and potential assignments for the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl.

This week, Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, and Chris Seubert have the discussion.

Because of the Wild Card Playoffs, our normal recording schedule for the 1st & 25 podcast has changed this week. We will have an episode with the roundtable later this week.

In the meantime, we have a special guest for this episode: 3-time Super Bowl referee and serial raconteur Bernie Kukar.

Bernie shared with us his experiences with Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002, which was under heavy security, being only a few months removed from the September 11 terrorist attacks. Bernie also worked the final game John Elway played in Super Bowl XXXIII. In that game he earned a Super Bowl ring and an unusual promise for a free beer that he cashed in on. He also took us on to the field when he was injured in a late-season game and had to hand his white hat over to future referee Gene Steratore. We also asked him about an on-field discussion with Ravens coach Brian Billick who didn’t realize he was benefiting from the the ruling on the field, to which Bernie hollered words to the effect of, “Billick, you dumb bastard.”

Quickly, you will see why Bernie was chosen as our first podcast guest.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we took a look at the crews for the upcoming NFL Wild Card Playoffs and shared our observations on who is working. Also, it was a fairly quiet quarterfinal round in college football for 15 quarters, 14 minutes, and 59 seconds. We take a look at the ending of the Sugar Bowl and address the question posed during the broadcast, “Does common sense prevail here?”.

We also took a look at a couple of instances of players contacting officials and some long tenured officials who are retiring.

This week, Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, and Pat Weber have the discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we get ready for the upcoming NFL postseason. Not including the Super Bowl, what is one of the more challenging assignments? The answer may surprise you.

We also took a look at some early penalties in the Steelers-Browns game that seemed to be light and, as was suggested on the broadcast, a make-up call. We set the record straight. Also, we saw the Lions hit with a game-ending offensive pass interference that was questioned by many. Finally, we give praise to one official who has gone above and beyond in restoring order on the field.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we took a closer look at the standards for replay reviews and how, in some unusual rulings, it seems as if we are getting some overly officious rulings.

We also discussed the “fourth quarter” of the officiating season at the NFL and the upper college levels, being extra vigilant for pregame activity, an ejection for contacting an official, and how a new rule has some people saying we need to nerf the kicking balls.

This week’s discussion included Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we talked about the wind-down of the season for high school officials and how Division III officials are waiting for notifications that depend on which teams advance in the playoffs. We also mentioned how this presents an opportunity to reach graduating seniors in high school and college to look into officiating.

We also took a virtual trip to Canton, Ohio, the site of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. This year, not a single official was in the first list of contributor candidates for enshrinement. We discussed how officiating has been snubbed not only in the enshrinement area, but in the Hall of Fame’s museum exhibit space.

We had a few quick takes on how the NFL replay booths were busy this past week, how the catch process is still not fully understood by fans, an interesting down-by-contact ruling, and a reminder to officials to go slow.

This week’s discussion included Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, and Pat Weber.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we talked about the midgame injury to referee Adrian Hill in Week 12, who handed off his white hat for umpire Roy Ellison.

There also was a Sunday night game that was a little rough at the end of regulation, but the crew gathered themselves and nailed several tight calls in the overtime session. We discussed how a crew reins in a game gets out in front of them.

We also had some quick takes on the false start/timeout issue with the Packers on Thanksgiving, a touchdown that was not ruled down because the runner rolled over the top of the tackler (with a wing who astutely let the play run), an unfortunate inadvertent whistle that erased a first down conversion, and how referees are making sure that captains do not make mistakes on the NFL overtime coin toss.

We have an alternate official this week: Mike D the Referee from the Whistle Talk podcast joins the Football Zebras crew of Ben Austro, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber.

Mentioned in this episode

Here are the plays mentioned in this week’s quick takes:

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we get ready for Thanksgiving by talking about high school rivalries that play on Thanksgiving morning that don’t count in the standings, but are must-win games.

Our own Pat Weber shared his experience as the referee for the Chicago’s storied Prep Bowl, and who he worked that game with and an officiating legend who shares his unique legacy.

We also took a look at how referee Phil Luckett has been maligned for decades for a seemingly botched coin toss on Thanksgiving. As we have said for many years, Phil Luckett was right, even though history doesn’t record it that way.

It’s a full crew on the podcast: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we take a look at an unusual situation where Broncos coach Sean Payton and down judge Derrick Bowers collided on an interception return. To our surprise, the penalty for the sideline interference was declined, even though fouls against an official are enforced separately.

We also discussed a defensive pass interference flag that should not have been thrown, how one overtime coin flip seemed to have an error, a spitting incident that lead to a suspension, a fake tush push play, and several players this week committing celebratory acts that are clear fouls.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we take a look at former NFL players who become officials and use their instincts as players to their advantage. We also discussed how in high school, some regions in a state may have slight differences in officiating mechanics. This may cause confusion during postseason play when officials and coaches are from different regions.

We also discussed how the Panthers legally recovered their own blocked kick, the state of ejections in the NFL through 10 weeks, a disjointed end to the fourth quarter in Berlin, and what could be the call of the year from Big Ten back judge Josh Dascher in the Indiana-Penn State game.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, and Chris Seubert have this week’s discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we take a look at the start of high school playoffs and how various states determine which officials get postseason assignments.

We also discussed what seems to be an increase in missed false starts at the NFL level, an intentional grounding rule that has been misconstrued by many fans, and a case where a high school playoff game had a game-winning field goal on 5th down.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we discuss multiple instances in NFL games this weekend where a quick or erroneous whistle was to blame for a few calls. One of them involved the tush-push play where a turnover was nullified, and look how this might affect the rules governing this play.

On Sunday night, there was an interesting situation where the Steelers were not able to challenge a sure touchdown ruled incomplete, but replay assist reversed the call. We take a look at the process and what it has done for the replay system overall.

Finally, we talk about some troubling news out of the SEC. Referee Ken Williamson was permanently suspended by the conference, reportedly due to errors by the crew in the Auburn-Georgia game. We discuss the ramifications of this decision and how officials should be held accountable.

Ben Austro, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber — and Ben’s dog — have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

Here are videos of the quick whistle plays that were discussed

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we discussed defensive pass interference, and how two key plays differed between a flag and a no-call. We switched sides of the field to look at offensive pass interference and how receivers have used tactics to conceal their efforts to gain an advantage.

We returned to the failed trick play last week that Lions coach Dan Campbell claimed was decided in replay to debunk that theory.

Also under discussion was the officials’ involvement after the final play of the game, which this week saw Dre Greenlaw of the Broncos picking up a 1-game suspension for confronting referee Brad Allen.

And finally, we observed a situation on Sunday where referee Bill Vinovich had a discussion during a break with Jalen Carter of the Eagles, demonstrating that Carter’s tackle was exactly what the league wants defenders to do when bringing the quarterback down. This may seem a bit unorthodox to the untrained eye, but we discussed how using preventative officiating and taking advantage of these “talk-to” moments overall improve the game for the players and the fans.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

The clips of line judge Tim Podraza addressing 49ers tight end Vernon Davis in 2014 and Vinovich’s discussion with Carter are below.

A lot of questions on offside/formation warnings. This is typically early in the game for technical or borderline violations addressed in the next stoppage. Here, LJ Tim Podraza exercises preventative officiating instead of a flag in the first quarter of a 2014 game pic.twitter.com/0UP8C3ZDFC

— Fᴏᴏᴛʙᴀʟʟ Zᴇʙʀᴀs (@footballzebras) December 12, 2023

pic.twitter.com/SmCtZSc2pR

— fzclips (@fzclips) October 21, 2025

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we looked at a failed trick play that negated a Lions touchdown. This recalls a similar situation in 2023 when a substitution sleight of hand went wrong.

We also talked about one of our own, senior editor Mark Schultz, who was the referee at a high school game Friday, and the result went viral. After too many players were ejected from one team, he was forced to end the game before halftime. Tuesday morning, after the podcast was recorded, the Illinois High School Association awarded a 1-0 victory to Peoria-Richwoods by forfeit.

And finally, with a Patriots 61-yard touchdown nullified by an erroneous penalty, we discussed how officials deal with mistakes that have such gravity, maintain focus in the game, and use the experience to prevent it from happening again.

Ben Austro, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

We discussed other times illegal motion was called on a T-formation quarterback. The last time it was called was in 2020 when Washington quarterback Kyle Allen was flagged in a Week 6 game against the Giants. Before that in 2019, Steelers quarterback Delvin Hodges, in one of the 8 NFL games he played, was also penalized for illegal motion in a Week 15 game against the Bills. The next instance before that was the Baker Mayfield play that Cam mentioned.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we looked at some of the substitution tactics that we reported last week and what officials are doing at the college and pro level to minimize gamesmanship.

We examined two pass defenses that were not called defensive pass interference at the end of two consequential games, both of which knocked off the remaining undefeated teams. We discussed the “buckets,” or categories, of pass interference and why mere contact is not a foul.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

The plays under discussion for pass defense were in the Broncos-Eagles game and the Patriots-Bills game.

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we looked at an unusual situation that caused 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan to be unable to decline a penalty. This included a broader discussion on sideline communication and efficiency.

We also talked about players celebrating too soon on an inevitable touchdown, and how officials must always be attentive to the possibility of a fumble and not anticipate the score.

Finally, we praised a small, but meaningful, contribution by Fox commentator Greg Olsen during his game. All the networks have rules analysts, but when the announcers can immediately address a quirk in the rules, it is a big help to the common fan — and comforting to those of us who wear stripes any day of the week.

Ben Austro, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

We mentioned that we have given a Broadcaster of the Year award to announcers who have a command of the rules of the game and officiating mechanics. Here are those two posts:

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we had extensive discussion on the presnap duties of the officials.

We reviewed the situation in the Auburn-Oklahoma game where an illegal hideout was not picked up by the officials. The SEC issued a statement that there would be “appropriate accountability.”

We also discussed the officiating mechanics of the 2-minute offense, and why the hurry-up mechanics are not employed throughout the game. On Sunday, the Browns had time for a game-winning field goal because of these standard measures to spot the ball in the waning seconds. We look at the philosophies that are intended to be met by these time-saving procedures.

Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

Our Rules School video on 2-minute mechanics in the NFL:

On this episode of the 1st & 25 podcast, we discussed false starts on the Eagles trademark push play, and what might happen if additional rules are added to or abolish this play.

We also took a look at an unusual situation of not knowing the rules: when a kickoff lands in the landing zone, it is a free ball. The Seahawks scored a touchdown thanks to this occurrence.

We wrapped up the podcast discussing a leverage call against the Broncos on the Colts failed game-winning field goal. The Colts won the game on a second attempt after assessing the penalty.

It’s a full house for our roundtable: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Chris Seubert, and Pat Weber have this week’s discussion.

Mentioned in this episode

Chris Seubert had this assisting the runner flag on Friday night.

This is the list of the 12 plays where the kicking team recovered its own kick (with video) from Quirky Research:

We could not find video of the play where Ron Marinucci was caught in a fumble recovery, as aughts-era preseason games are pretty much a video dead zone. We did find this image.

On the season premiere of the 1st & 25 podcast, we take a look at Jalen Carter’s ejection before the first snap of the 2025 season. We also talk about gameday officiating assistants in the coach’s booth, and how one coach may have received bad advice over his headset.

We wrapped up the first podcast of the season talking about knocking the rust off for that first game of the season.

Ben Austro, Cam Filipe, Pat Weber and Chris Seubert have this week’s discussion.

On the season finale of the 1st & 25 podcast, we take a look at Super Bowl LIX, and how the pregame discussion about the crew’s lack of experience was not an issue. We also break down some of the key calls during the game.

We also took a look at some of the big stories from 2024 and what might lie ahead in the upcoming offseason.

It’s a full house to close the season: Ben Austro, Mark Schultz, Cam Filipe, Pat Weber and Chris Seubert.

Referenced in this episode

Ben mentioned umpire Mike Morton officiated high school games with former NFL running back Natrone Means, which was posted by the Charlotte Observer in their article about Morton and side judge Boris Cheek.

Cam mentioned the interview Mike Pereira had on Boston’s 98.5 The Sports Hub.