Key takeaways

• Three waves, not two. Recreational, then medical, then intentional use inside a framework built for emotional processing.
• Cannabis is a nonspecific amplifier. It magnifies the state you are already in. If nothing is providing direction, it amplifies that too.
• Relief is transitory by design. Getting baked through the hard part feels better while it lasts because nothing was released.
• Healing conditions the nervous system. Becca’s claim is that a processed layer stays processed and does not need redoing.
• Talk therapy has a ceiling on trauma. Not a dismissal of therapy, a statement about what talking can reach.
• The macro-journey glow fades. A big psychedelic experience without an integration container leaves you where it found you.

On this page

• The three waves of cannabis
• Relief versus healing
• Why the container matters more than the plant
• The limits of talk therapy
• When the generational cycle stops
• People, ideas and sources mentioned
• Questions this episode answers
• Go deeper

The three waves of cannabis

Becca positions her work as a third wave. The first is recreational, including what she calls adult use. The second is medical, treating a specific ailment. The third is intentional and conscious use as a tool for emotional processing and trauma work.

The distinction is not branding. Each wave has a different measure of success. The first asks whether you enjoyed it. The second asks whether the symptom moved. The third asks whether the thing that caused the symptom is still there.

Relief versus healing

This is her defining framework and it is worth sitting with. Using cannabis as a palliative, checking out on the couch through the hard parts, gives you transitory relief. You feel better while it lasts. Then the emotions come back, because nothing was released. Only postponed.

Healing, in her account, is a different mechanism. It conditions the nervous system and creates new neural pathways, and it removes an emotional layer permanently. She tells her students that once a layer has been processed through the framework, they will not need to do that specific piece of work again.

She did not arrive at this theoretically. She medicated with cannabis through her television years and always felt better temporarily. The emotions always returned. That is a summary of her account in the episode rather than a quotation.

Why the container matters more than the plant

Becca does not endorse cannabis without a container. Her term for what the plant does is nonspecific amplifier: it intensifies whatever state you bring to it. Bring avoidance and you get amplified avoidance.

So the framework supplies the direction and the plant supplies the intensity. She trained for four years in Emotional Liberation, a system developed by a Kundalini yogi, and she is also a clinical nutritionist, which is why the physiological side of this gets as much attention as the emotional side.

What a container actually means

• A defined intention set before the session, not during it.
• A method for processing what surfaces, rather than just riding it out.
• Integration afterwards, which is the part most people skip.
• Someone guiding it who has done the work themselves.

The limits of talk therapy

Her argument is not that therapy fails. It is that trauma is held somewhere language has trouble reaching, so a modality built entirely on language will run out of road at some point. That is the gap she is trying to work in.

The same criticism lands on psychedelic macro journeys. A big experience produces a glow. Without a framework for processing what it opened, the glow fades and the layer is still there.

When the generational cycle stops

The last stretch of the conversation is about generational trauma, and specifically what it looks like when the cycle finally ends with somebody. Not the moment of insight, which is easy. The years afterwards, which are not.

People, ideas and sources mentioned

Questions this episode answers

• What is third wave cannabis?
• What is the difference between relief and healing with cannabis?
• Does cannabis actually help with trauma?
• What does it mean that cannabis is a nonspecific amplifier?
• Why is a container or framework necessary for plant medicine?
• Where does talk therapy stop working for trauma?
• Why does the glow from a psychedelic journey fade?
• What does it take to stop a generational trauma cycle?

Go deeper

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

• Just Jay on cannabis, faith and the architecture of self, another conversation about intention and ritual rather than consumption.
• Jeremy Norrie on the road from healers to big business, for how the industry got from the first wave to here.
• unscriptedcannabis.com, where new episodes land.

Find Becca Williams

Her work lives at beccawilliams.org. (The address printed in the original notes for this episode, becawilliams.org with one c, no longer resolves.)

Cite this episode

Williams, Becca. Interviewed by Just J. “The Difference Between Relief and Healing.” Unscripted Cannabis, 2026. https://unscripted-cannabis.castos.com/episodes/becca-just-magic-episode-apr-23-2026

Key takeaways

• He describes himself as a systems builder. Religious, social, educational. The question he never stopped asking is whether a system serves the people inside it.
• The wide path and the narrow path, re-read. His reframe: walking arm in arm in the same direction is the wide path. Working it out alone with God is the narrow one.
• Gudwudz started in 2003 as a bamboo prototype. It debuted properly at the Cannabis Cup in Denver, in walnut.
• The experiential product trap. Demand comes from trying it. Getting enough people to try it requires demand you do not have yet.
• Every major platform except X bans cannabis-adjacent advertising. Which removes the obvious way out of that trap.
• An ADHD diagnosis at 48 is what brought him to cannabis for focus, and put doctrine and personal experience directly at odds.
• Legacy is ideas, not assets. Everything material can be taken away. He has watched it happen twice.

On this page

• The architect of your better self
• Church elder meets cannabis founder
• The Gudwudz problem: you have to try it to get it
• Twenty years to finish a book
• Legacy as ideas, not assets
• People, ideas and sources mentioned
• Questions this episode answers
• Go deeper

The architect of your better self

Jay opens with a deceptively plain self-description. He is a systems builder. What he means by it goes deeper than process design: he has spent his life examining the systems people are handed, religious traditions, social norms, family patterns, and asking whether they actually serve the people living inside them.

Growing up as a young Black boy in Mississippi, inside a church that told him the world was written off and he should stay safe, he started asking why. He is now thirteen years into teaching middle school maths and science and transitioning to full-time entrepreneurship. The question never stopped.

Church elder meets cannabis founder

He came up with the Gudwudz concept in 2003. His late first wife pushed back hard. A church elder should not be helping people smoke better. After she died of breast cancer that became lung cancer, the woman who never smoked, he decided he was finished performing one version of himself for external approval.

His reframe of the wide-path and narrow-path scripture is the part of this episode people quote back. If you are all walking arm in arm in the same direction, that is the wide path. If you are alone with God working out your own salvation, that is the narrow one. It is a defence of individual spiritual journeys against religious groupthink, made from inside the church rather than from outside it.

An ADHD diagnosis at 48 is what brought him to cannabis for its focusing effect. Doctrine on one side, direct personal experience on the other, and no comfortable way to hold both.

The Gudwudz problem: you have to try it to get it

Any founder with an experiential product will recognise this. Demand is generated by the experience. Generating the experience at scale requires demand that does not exist yet. Chicken, meet egg.

He got real proof of concept at the Cannabis Cup in Denver and through a Tri-State Uber cannabis promotion. People who tried it understood the difference immediately. The bottleneck is not the product. It is the first moment.

And the obvious escape route is closed

Paid social would normally solve this. Every major platform except X bans cannabis-adjacent advertising, so the category has to build demand through channels that were never designed for it: events, word of mouth, and putting the object in someone’s hand.

The same wall, from the vape side

It is not only cannabis. On Unscripted Small Business, Marc Pitts, founder of Discount Vape Pen, described running into the identical problem a decade earlier and reaching the same conclusion Jay has: if the paid channel is closed, organic is not a tactic, it is the whole business.

After 2015 or 2016 you couldn’t do paid advertising almost anywhere… In our case, we stuck to the hard facts: we’re not going to be able to get through on paid advertising. Any of those efforts could be a wash in a day, or cause a much bigger issue even for our organic rankings. We were forced to really learn everything we could.

Two regulated categories, ten years apart, both pushed to the same answer.

Twenty years to finish a book

Jay separates writing from the inside from writing for publication. He had been revising the same manuscript for two decades. What finally moved it was AI, used as an editor rather than an author, which is a more honest account of what the tools are good for than most people give.

He now has multiple books out, including Eternity in Real Time and The Point of Life, and writes a Substack called Today in Eternity.

Legacy as ideas, not assets

Watching his first wife lose her hair, her health and eventually her life clarified something. Everything material can be taken. His father died at 38 of a heart attack. Jay is ten years past that age now and treats every day with urgency rather than panic.

The books, the Substack and Gudwudz itself are all the same conviction expressed three ways. Get what is inside you out into the world, because somebody somewhere needs it as their first domino.

People, ideas and sources mentioned

Questions this episode answers

• Can you be a person of faith and run a cannabis company?
• How do you market a product that people only understand after trying it?
• Why can cannabis brands not advertise on social platforms?
• What is the wide path and narrow path reframe?
• How can AI help finish a book you have been revising for years?
• What does an ADHD diagnosis at 48 change?
• What is worth leaving behind if the material things can all be taken?

Go deeper

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

• Becca Williams on relief versus healing, the same argument about intention from the therapeutic side.
• Brady Madden on marketing in a category that cannot buy ads, which is the tactical answer to Jay’s distribution problem.
• unscriptedcannabis.com for the rest of the show.

Find Just Jay

Gudwudz is at gudwudz.com. He writes as Mr. Gudwudz and publishes Today in Eternity on Substack.

Cite this episode

Just Jay. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Cannabis, Faith & the Architecture of Self.” Unscripted Cannabis, 2026. https://unscripted-cannabis.castos.com/episodes/magic-episode-01

Key takeaways

• Legalisation did not end the fight, it changed the venue. The tax wars and legal double standards came after the win, not before it.
• Cannabis and alcohol are not regulated on the same terms and the gap is not accidental.
• Localised law is the real complexity. Medical rights and recreational rights diverge county by county.
• Algorithms reward sensationalism, which is a structural problem for anyone making careful documentary work.
• AI is the next monetisation cliff. New creative range on one side, authenticity and morality questions on the other.
• He applies a journalist’s standard to extraordinary claims, including UFOs, spirits and consciousness. Open-minded, not credulous.

On this page

• From hemp freedom to regulatory collapse
• Tax wars and double standards
• Algorithms, monetisation and the black box
• AI, filmmaking and the moral questions
• The part about UFOs
• Chapters and timestamps
• People, ideas and sources mentioned
• Questions this episode answers
• Go deeper

From hemp freedom to regulatory collapse

Norrie’s activism predates the industry. He was involved early enough to have helped pioneer dabbing tools and to have produced award-winning Cannabis Cup entries. That gives his documentary work a spine most cannabis journalism does not have: he was there for the part nobody filmed.

The arc he traces goes medicinal use, then hemp advocacy, then legalisation, then the guardrails. His view is that the guardrails are where the damage is being done now.

Tax wars and double standards

The recurring critique is the distance between the legal framework and what actually happens under it. Legal operators carry a tax burden that unlicensed ones do not. Product mislabelling and industry opportunism run alongside enforcement aimed at the wrong targets.

The alcohol comparison does the most work. Two intoxicants, two completely different regulatory regimes, and the difference has more to do with history and lobbying than with harm.

Algorithms, monetisation and the black box

For an independent filmmaker the distribution question is now the whole business question. Norrie is direct that platform algorithms are uncontrollable and that they reward sensationalism over quality, which shapes what gets made and not just what gets seen.

He also draws a parallel that is easy to miss: the tricks people use to game digital platforms and the loopholes people use to game cannabis regulation are the same behaviour in different clothes. Both are systems where the rules change faster than anyone can comply.

AI, filmmaking and the moral questions

He is neither an evangelist nor a refusenik. AI gives creators range they did not have and raises questions about authenticity that the industry has not answered. The section on AI-generated entertainment and the future of streaming is speculative and he says so.

The harder point underneath it is about incentives. If sensational content is what gets distributed, and AI makes sensational content nearly free to produce, the pressure on careful work gets worse rather than better.

The part about UFOs

Roughly a third of this conversation is about unexplained phenomena: alien encounters, interdimensional experiences, astral projection, lucid dreaming, altered states. It is a genuine turn and it is not filler.

What makes it worth listening to is his method. He treats extraordinary claims the way he treats cannabis policy claims, which is to say he cares about credibility and about the value of debunking. He is looking for the truth rather than for the story.

Chapters

People, ideas and sources mentioned

Questions this episode answers

• What happened to the cannabis industry after legalisation?
• Why are cannabis and alcohol regulated so differently?
• Why is the cannabis tax situation so punishing for legal operators?
• How do platform algorithms affect independent documentary makers?
• What does AI change for filmmaking and monetisation?
• How should a journalist handle extraordinary claims?
• What is the connection between digital marketing tricks and regulatory loopholes?

Go deeper

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

• Just Jay on building a cannabis product when you cannot advertise it, the founder-side version of the platform problem Norrie describes.
• Brady Madden on cannabis SEO, which is what the industry does instead of paid social.
• unscriptedcannabis.com for the full show.

Find Jeremy Norrie

He is on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Cite this episode

Norrie, Jeremy. “Cannabis From Healers to Big Business.” Unscripted Cannabis, 2026. https://unscripted-cannabis.castos.com/episodes/documentarian-jeremy-norrie-cannabis-from-healers-to-big-business

Key takeaways

• The paid-media ban is the strategy. When you cannot buy attention, organic search stops being one channel among several and becomes the channel.
• Brand recognition does the work paid media usually does. People search for the dispensary they already trust.
• Technical SEO matters more here than in most verticals, because the sites are often built fast on templates and never audited.
• State regulation fragments everything. What you can say, sell and rank for changes at the state line.
• Pick KPIs that survive a compliance review. Measurable success is what keeps a cannabis marketing budget alive.
• AI is changing how cannabis buyers search before it changes how agencies work.

On this page

• Marketing inside a paid-media ban
• Why brand recognition carries cannabis search
• The technical SEO gap
• State by state
• Measuring it so it survives
• People, ideas and sources mentioned
• Questions this episode answers
• Go deeper

Marketing inside a paid-media ban

Brady came out of general digital marketing and built an agency aimed at one industry. That is normally a positioning choice. Here it is closer to a technical specialisation, because the rules a cannabis operator works under have almost nothing in common with the rules anyone else works under.

No paid search. No paid social on any major platform. Restrictions on email and on what a landing page can even claim. Everything that is left is organic, local and reputational.

Why brand recognition carries cannabis search

Brady puts weight on brand recognition, and in this category it is not soft. A person who already knows your dispensary searches for it by name, which is the one query no competitor can outbid you on and no algorithm change takes away.

That makes offline presence, community work and word of mouth into search inputs rather than separate activities.

The technical SEO gap

He is clear about the role of technical work. Cannabis sites tend to get built quickly, often on a menu platform bolted onto a template, and then never audited. Crawlability, indexation and site structure problems accumulate quietly.

That is good news for an operator willing to fix them. In a category where competitors cannot outspend you, being the site that search engines can actually read is a durable advantage.

State by state

The last practical constraint is legal geography. What you may sell, ship, claim and advertise changes at the state line, and so does the search intent. A national playbook does not survive contact with this industry.

Measuring it so it survives

Brady pushes on KPIs, and in this context the reason is specific. Cannabis marketing budgets get questioned harder than most, so a programme that cannot show measurable outcomes gets cut first. Decide what counts as success before the campaign, not after it.

He also touches on AI and what it does to SEO practice. The short version from this conversation: the tooling is changing faster than the fundamentals are.

People, ideas and sources mentioned

Questions this episode answers

• How do you market a cannabis business when you cannot run ads?
• Why is SEO so important for dispensaries?
• What technical SEO problems do cannabis sites usually have?
• How does state regulation change cannabis marketing?
• Which KPIs should a cannabis brand track?
• Is AI changing cannabis SEO?
• How much does brand recognition matter for cannabis search?

Go deeper

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

• Just Jay on the distribution problem, which is the same paid-media ban seen from a product founder’s side.
• Jeremy Norrie on algorithms and the regulatory landscape, for the wider context.
• unscriptedcannabis.com for the full show.

Find Brady Madden

His agency is Evergreen SEO.

Cite this episode

Madden, Brady. Interviewed by Mack Lunn. “Exploring The Cannabis Marketing Space.” Unscripted Cannabis, 2025. https://unscripted-cannabis.castos.com/episodes/exploring-the-cannabis-marketing-space-with-brady-madden