Hines DC: Legacy & Vision [2:39] Andrew describes his City Head role and the goal to double Hines' Mid-Atlantic AUM over five years. Sitting in Hines' original DC office building—Columbia Square, delivered in 1986—he reflects on inheriting a 40-year legacy built by predecessors Bill Alsop and Chuck Waters and his commitment to being a worthy steward of it.

Background: Naval Academy & Early Life [7:49] Raised in Devon, Pennsylvania, Andrew credits athletics, the military, and academia for shaping his discipline. Lacrosse opened the door to the Naval Academy; he served as a Supply Corps officer in Yokosuka, Japan, then as an intelligence officer at the Pentagon before pivoting to real estate.

Building the Foundation: Toll Brothers, Graduate School & Mundy Properties [13:24] Andrew joined Toll Brothers' PM training program straight from the Navy, then earned an MS at Penn (while still active duty) and an MBA at MIT via the GI Bill—driven by a love of learning, not credential-chasing. A timely pivot to Mundy Properties in 2006 led him through the GFC, including the all-equity development of the LEED Platinum 1812 North Moore tower in Rosslyn with Lehman Brothers as partner.

Fairfield Residential to Hines [27:32] After overseeing Mid-Atlantic multifamily development at Fairfield Residential from 2016–2019, Andrew joined Hines to return to complex mixed-use environments. He reflects on navigating a rising interest rate environment post-May 2022 as the steepest learning curve of his career.

Key Projects: North Bethesda, Walter Reed & CityCenterDC [38:17] Three marquee projects: a transit-oriented data science hub planned for North Bethesda Metro station; the ongoing adaptive reuse challenges at the Parks at Walter Reed; and the "herculean" 2023 CityCenterDC refinancing—a $300M CMBS SASB deal closed with JP Morgan amid the SVB/Signature Bank collapse, the first such transaction in approximately 18 months.

DC Housing Crisis & The Affordable Housing Paradox [57:55] The region needs ~200,000 new homes by 2030 but has averaged only ~12,000 units annually since 2021. Andrew flags a frustrating irony rarely discussed publicly: developers are building affordable units willingly, but severe administrative obstacles are leaving those units vacant at CityCenterDC, Walter Reed, and the Wharf alike.

Growth Mindset, Sustainability & Billboard Message [1:10:17] Andrew discusses Hines' firm-wide LEED commitment and the ethical legacy of the Hines family. On mentorship, he reflects on a 20-year relationship with host John Coe, his original ULI mentor. His billboard: "The magic is in the work that you're avoiding"—a call to lean into discomfort, because nothing ever grows in the comfort zone.

Resources:

Andrew McGeorge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-mcgeorge-62053b3/

Patrick "Paddy" Weeks is co-author of The New Science of Hiring and VP of Operations at Tribunus Health. His career spans Marine Corps advisor teams in Afghanistan, Big Four consulting at Ernst & Young, and launching Sonder's DC market from Series B to 45 global markets and 2,000 employees. A Grove City College graduate and UVA Darden MBA, Patrick has spent five years synthesizing academic research on hiring into a practical framework for business leaders.

The Blank Sheet of Paper Problem [2:58–7:00] Finance, operations, and economics are taught as sciences — but hiring is treated as art. Patrick's MBA sparked the question: where is the science of selection? That gap launched a years-long research obsession and ultimately, the book.

From Midwest to Marine Corps [8:08–18:30] A soul-crushing Wall Street internship sent Patrick toward the Marines. Leading 20-man advisor teams through 125 convoys in Afghanistan taught him that pedigree matters far less than performance — a lesson that shaped every hire he'd ever make.

Military to Civilian – The Career Jungle Gym [18:31–23:49] The transition from machine gun convoys to an E&Y cubicle was jarring. Patrick shares why he views careers less as ladders and more as jungle gyms — and how the GI Bill, a Darden MBA, and strategic "attribute swapping" helped him find his fit.

Scaling Sonder – The Rocket Ship [31:21–40:55] As Sonder's first DC hire, Patrick scaled from 200 to 2,000 employees across 45 markets. He reveals what broke first (processes, always), what he hired for (high agency, low ego), and how a non-traditional banking hire became one of his best decisions.

The Firing That Scarred Him [47:13–50:32] Patrick opens his book with his worst professional moment: terminating a new hire just three weeks in. He ignored his gut, deferred to group consensus, and paid the price. It became the catalyst for learning the actual science of selection.

Proactive Personality & The Hustle Metric [1:02:45–1:10:16] For brokerage, BD, and PM roles, Conscientiousness is overrated. Proactive Personality — testable in a four-minute questionnaire — is the real predictor of who takes initiative without being told. Patrick explains why it's the moneyball metric real estate firms are missing.

Time Kills Deals — In Hiring Too [1:18:47–1:25:44] Every day a process drags, you lose ~10% of your candidate pool. Decision accuracy tops out after 3–5 interviews. The "meet all the partners" gauntlet isn't rigor — it's diffused accountability.

Integrity Testing, Simulations & AI Risks [1:10:42–1:18:21] Integrity testing delivers up to 4,000% ROI for on-site and PM roles. Work simulations outperform polished interviews. And training AI on past hiring data? You're just automating old biases — with new legal liability attached.

Resources: The New Science of Hiring by Patrick Weeks & Joy Giles | thenewscienceofhiring.com 

Connect: LinkedIn – Patrick Weeks

Notable Quotes:

"I learned one of the hardest lessons in leadership: never hire someone you don't believe in, just because everyone else said yes. Because when the hammer drops, you're the one swinging it."

"If you don't have a system, you are the system."

"Real estate is complex... You're not buying someone's past, you're buying their future when you hire."

"After the fourth or fifth interview, you're not even changing your mind on any candidates. You're just going through the motions."

"One thing I saw and lived myself is that there's not really a career ladder and I think my conclusion is more like a career jungle gym. There are many different paths you can take, allowing for directional changes."

"I've learned that it's called proactive personality. You can actually test for it. I think that would be something, you know, a real estate organization should really think about adding to their interview pipeline. You can ask a four -minute questionnaire that something fills out and they can tell you how proactive or how much initiatives they're going to take. You might not want a creative accountant, but if someone's out there doing sales, doing business development, doing property management, someone who's not going to be waiting to be told what to do. Proactive personality, I think, is very key. And I looked for people who have a lot of drive and a little bit of a chip on their shoulder."

Matt Hard is Senior Managing Director at Trammell Crow Residential (TCR). Previously worked at LCOR alongside his father Bill Hard (previous podcast guest), where he led complex urban developments including Union Market projects. Georgetown graduate (Political Science/English), JD/MBA from USC. Matt joined TCR in August 2020 during COVID while navigating family health challenges. 

Show Notes 

Introduction and Current Mandate [00:00:00-00:04:30] Matt's role at TCR and current strategy: tying up ground-up multifamily deals for 2029-2030 delivery, betting on supply constraints. Discussion of "untrended yield on cost" versus "trended yield" and underwriting challenges over two-year pre-closing periods. 

Risk, Judgment, and Reputation [00:04:30-00:12:30] Managing $3-5M pursuit costs to closing. Timing as the uncontrollable variable in development. Preserving TCR's 75-year culture of integrity: "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." Prioritizing reputation and repeat business over maximizing every dollar. 

Family Legacy and Early Life [00:14:00-00:24:00] Growing up with Bill Hard, who left work at work and was "dad first." Maternal influence: high standards, humor, and grace during cancer battle. Georgetown liberal arts education. No early pressure toward real estate career. 

Legal Background and Career Pivot [00:24:00-00:39:00] USC JD/MBA during 2008 crisis. Legal training teaching navigation of "gray areas" and corporate advocacy. Practicing 18 months before transitioning to principal side. Candid "nepotism" conversation joining father at LCOR, driven to "earn the chair." 

The Learning Curve: LCOR Years [00:39:00-00:59:00] Construction as steepest learning curve—kept notebook of acronyms. Key deals: Union Market (complex Eden's partnership) and Moore Street (as-is acquisition teaching scrappy problem-solving). Lessons on institutional capital advantages versus entrepreneurial risk. 

2020 Transition to Trammell Crow Residential [00:59:00-01:16:00] Joined TCR August 2020 amid intense personal crisis: mother's terminal cancer, wife's cancer diagnosis, COVID. Taking leadership role from Robbie Brooks. Contrasting LCOR's discretionary capital model with TCR's deal-by-deal capitalization and in-house GC advantages. 

Corporate Identity and Market Philosophy [01:16:00-01:24:00] Clarifying Crow Holdings (private, family-held) versus Trammell Crow Company (CBRE subsidiary). Avoiding "illusion of self-dealing" with affiliated capital. Generational perspective: entering industry during 12-year bull run leading to potentially "rosy" underwriting. 

Key Decisions and Market Outlook [01:24:00-01:39:00] Best deal not done: dropping two 2021 contracts saved seven-figure write-offs when market turned. Market correctly reading current stagnation but missing supply shock coming in 2026-27. Attainable housing challenges: DC regulatory demands suppressing supply despite affordability goals. 

Future Trends and Advice [01:39:00-01:46:00] AI cautiously embraced for productivity but concerned about losing critical thinking and "human touch" in placemaking. Advice: "Execution is not a dirty word"—master unglamorous details (permits, utilities) to become credible dealmaker. Value attitude over aptitude; be relentlessly social. 

Closing Thoughts [01:46:00-01:48:51] Billboard message: "Being right is not the same thing as being effective"—focus on goals, not proving correctness. Heartfelt tribute to father Bill and wife Alicia. 

Bill Norton serves on the Board of Directors for The Chevy Chase Land Company, chairing its Investment Committee. He retired from Northwestern Mutual Real Estate in 2015 after a 41-year career, including 22 years as Regional Director of the Washington D.C. office—the firm's largest, overseeing $9 billion across 13 states. Norton began in Northwestern's Detroit office in 1974 after earning his MBA from the University of Michigan. Known for construction-to-permanent loans and relationships with The Bozzuto Group, Boston Properties, and Macerich. Staunch advocate for "boots on the ground" philosophy. 

Key Chapters 

Introduction and Detroit Roots [00:00:00-00:04:30] Shared Detroit real estate history from 1979. Norton's fortuitous 1981 DC move, narrowly avoiding Detroit office closure. 

Capital Steward Role [00:04:45-00:09:00] Chairing Chevy Chase Land Company Investment Committee. Shifting from deal-making to oversight, staying big picture focused. 

Boots on the Ground Philosophy [00:09:00-00:15:00] Real estate remains physical. Truck terminal story where photos deceived but site visit revealed truth, proving digital data can't replace inspection. 

Childhood and Education [00:15:30-00:22:00] One of eight children in Elmira, NY. 1972 flood devastation led to Michigan MBA scholarship. 

Early Underwriting Era [00:22:10-00:29:30] Green spreadsheets, HP-12C calculators, dial-up connections, rotating fax machines. Pre-computer institutional real estate. 

High-Interest Rate Crisis [00:29:45-00:38:00] "Disintermediation" when rates soared. Northwestern out of market 18 months, merged equity/mortgage groups. 

Building DC's Largest Office [00:38:20-00:46:00] 22-year Regional Director tenure. Strategy: repeat business with trusted partners versus chasing deals. 

Legendary Partnerships [00:46:15-00:55:30] First Bozzuto joint venture at Vienna Metro. $750M Tysons Corner financing with Macerich/Alaska Permanent Fund. 

Early 90s Survival [00:55:40-01:05:00] "Stay Alive to '95" mentality. Working with Boston Properties, Charles E. Smith during turbulent years. 

Office Conversions Reality [01:05:10-01:15:00] Skepticism on widespread conversions. Park and Ford success story. Wilco's 20th & L project. Floorplate/demand challenges. 

Creative Deal Structures [01:15:00-01:30:00] Construction-permanent loans. Jersey City condo conversion. Second mortgage participations. Rate lock stories and relationship banking. 

Working with Developers [01:30:00-01:45:00] Bozzuto relationship evolution. Fountains and free libraries. Julie Smith property management brilliance. Jersey City management deal. 

Tysons Corner Deep Dive [01:37:00-01:42:00] Ted Lerner ground lease history. Macerich/Alaska partnership. Cross-easements complexity. Boston's most complicated deal. 

Data Centers and Land Values [01:27:00-01:35:00] Lerner's Gainesville parcel: $300-400M for data center use. Technology risk concerns. Northern Virginia valuations. Small nuclear power questions. 

Today's Bifurcated Market [01:33:00-01:40:00] Flight to quality. $100 triple-net new construction versus $40 older space. Mixed-use future. Trophy malls versus everything else. 

AI and Human Judgment [01:43:00-01:50:00] AI's underwriting potential. The irreplaceable: understanding nuances, feeling properties, gut instincts. Wilson building example—smell, sound, presence matter. 

Next Generation Wisdom [01:50:00-01:55:00] Learn tools: AI, finance, construction. But interpersonal skills trump everything. Join organizations. Maintain relationships. Avoid burning bridges. 

Reclaiming Humanity [01:55:00-01:57:00] Billboard message: "Let's reclaim our humanity. Let's be truthful." Gratitude for 41-year career built on trust. 

John C. Coe is the founder of Coe Enterprises, an advisory and content studio focused on strategic counsel for real estate and civic leadership. For over six years, he has hosted Icons of DC Area Real Estate, conducting thoughtful conversations with industry leaders. Previously, he founded the Iconic Journey in CRE, a nonprofit platform that fostered intergenerational dialogue and community building in the DC commercial real estate sector. As he prepares to relocate to New York's Hudson Valley in 2026, John reflects on structural transitions, legacy, and the difference between scaffolding that serves temporarily and foundations built to endure. 

Key Chapters 

Scaffolding: The Opening Metaphor [00:00:00-00:07:00] Opening with scaffolding wrapped around buildings—temporary structures enabling permanent growth. Gary Rappaport: "We don't build centers, we build Saturday morning memories." The Iconic Journey in CRE served as scaffolding, holding early confidence, vulnerable questions, and multi-generational dialogue. "Scaffolding is not an insult. It is a compliment of the highest order." 

Ripples & Pebbles: Building Networks [00:07:00-00:11:00] Brad Olson: "You don't build networks, you toss pebbles and ripples do the rest." A personal story of an introduction that took five years to become a capital partnership. Brad tosses pebbles as an ethical posture, not a transaction. After enough ripples overlap, bridges form. 

Bridge Builders: Carrying Load [00:11:00-00:17:30] "Bridges aren't neutral. They carry load." Tom Buzzuto: "People don't want luxury, they want dignity." Bridge builders absorb conflict, translate perspectives, prevent fractures before anyone knows a fracture was possible. Story of two DC leaders headed toward conflict, resolved by quiet presence. "Structural leaders think in load paths, not headlines." 

Load-Bearing vs. Decorative Change [00:17:30-00:24:00] Bob Kettler: "The downturn doesn't change you, it reveals you." Contrast between decorative change (new branding, titles) versus structural change (clear decision authority, simplified reporting, accepted responsibility). Repositioning changes the story; shoring changes the structure. Personal transformation requires shifting from central to foundational roles. 

Jane Jacobs & The Soul of Streets [00:24:30-00:28:00] Jacobs' insight: safety and vitality emerge from ground-up human presence through mixed-use development and the "sidewalk ballet" of daily life on thriving streets. Ray Ritchie: "You can't rush a neighborhood." "You can finance buildings, you can't finance belonging." 

The Transition: IJCRE to Coe Enterprises & Station DC [00:28:00-00:34:00] Internal transition before external: shifting from center to foundation, from carrying weight to distributing it, from owning identity to stewarding legacy. IJCRE concludes its scaffolding purpose. Coe Enterprises emerges as John's advisory platform. Station DC, led by Sam Glass with "pro patria" ethos (for the good of place, profession, next generation), becomes the new framework. Sam's defining moment: "If we don't know who we're serving, the market will decide for us." 

What Endures: Five Commitments [00:34:00-00:37:30] "People always ask what changes, but the wiser question is what doesn't?" Five load-bearing commitments: (1) ethical grounding, (2) relationship-first thinking, (3) intergenerational responsibility, (4) long memory, (5) service over supremacy. For listeners in their "load-bearing season": "You are being prepared for structural responsibility, not decorative accomplishment." 

The Scaffolding Comes Down [00:37:30-00:39:40] Workers arrive, bolts loosen, platforms descend. What remains: "A building standing wholly on its own strength." IJCRE completes its purpose. Coe Enterprises refocuses. Station DC rises. Icons interviews resume 2026 at one per month. "Thank you for staying curious alongside me for more than six years." 

References: 

Coe Enterprises Website: https://coeenterprises.com (will be in updated mode after 1/15/2026) 

Sam Glass: Email: sglass@artis-capital.com 

Station DC: https://www.stationdc.org/ 
 

EYA's Evolution [00:00:01-00:06:31]: Goldman became EVP when he and partners became part-owners. Recent passing of Founder Bob Youngentob, who created sustainable long-term transition plan five years before illness. Goldman, Jack Lester, Akash Thakkar, and McLean Quinn are four of five owners. Time split: 1/3 acquisitions, rest development, focusing on vision, economic viability, and implementation. Core business remains townhomes (3-10 acre sites with high entitlement barriers), but dramatically expanded into commercial mixed-use, master planning, and substantial multifamily practice over 15 years.

Origin & Education [00:09:34-00:23:45]: Grew up in Suffern, NY in economically unstable household with gambling father (Atlantic City trips as "vacations"). Turned to drawing/sketching houses as outlet and coping mechanism. Early hotel exposure sparked design fascination. Attended Cornell's Design Environmental Analysis program combining interior architecture with Environmental Psychology—studying how spaces psychologically affect people (McDonald's loud, hard-seated quick-turnover design vs. fine dining comfort). Small 11-person cohort provided mentorship and stability.

Career Journey [00:23:45-00:35:48]: BBGM architecture firm → Mandarin Hotel competition (Tishman Speyer) loss convinced him developers drive key decisions → Russian Tea Room $30M renovation as VP of Design at 26 under perfectionist Warner LeRoy (briefly fired, then brought back with scholarship) → Wharton MBA → Tishman Speyer → Holiday Corp → Federal Realty. Advice for young professionals: Get lots of "reps" on different projects early. Leverage your strengths while staying multidisciplinary enough to ask right questions. Be bold, take calculated risks, "go first"—don't wait for permission.

Pike & Rose [00:44:48-01:13:01]: Led Federal Realty's 24-acre Mid-Pike Plaza transformation (original Toys R Us site). Massive entitlement: 29M sq ft approved required 80+ community meetings in one year. Hired political organizers (Dewey Square) to combat opposition and build support through polling and targeted outreach. 2008 recession required phased approach with interim and ultimate plans. Collaboration with Don Wood, Street Works, Sandy Clinton, Paula Reese balanced vision with economics using Federal Realty's corporate debt advantage. Key insight: Retail knowledge and street-level activity are foundation for best mixed-use projects. Created Project Visioning Committee (PVC) meeting bi-weekly for Bob Youngentob knowledge transfer to next generation, ensuring design rigor. Goldman frequently asks "What would Bob do?"

Key EYA Projects [01:18:55-02:37:01]: Montgomery Row: IBM office-to-residential in Rock Spring Park office park. Strathmore Square: Holy Cross Seminary partnership, first geothermal trial. McMillan Reservoir: 15-year effort with JAIR Lynch/Trammell Crow, city handled historic sand filtration restoration, 20-30% affordable housing, overcame legal challenges from external opponents. Graham Park Plaza: Loehman's Plaza retail conversion to attainable smaller townhomes (14-foot units at $600-650K). Robinson Landing: High-end Old Town Alexandria waterfront condos ($1,000+/sq ft), became largest archaeological dig on Eastern Seaboard after discovering three Revolutionary War ships—14-month work stoppage, $7M+ archaeology costs. Providence Reimagined: 25-acre hospital site requiring $30M demolition and complex utility replacement for operating medical office buildings.

Competitive Edge: In-house construction company provides pricing structure competitors lack. Willing to take entitlement risk others avoid. 30-year track record: only one failed entitlement of 50+ projects. Never closes on land until fully entitled. Programmatic relationship with Bernstein Management Company (8 years) for townhome equity. Targets distressed suburban office/retail for residential conversion.

Civic & Personal [02:37:01-02:44:06]: 2012 Livable Communities Leadership Award for Pike & Rose. Coalition for Smarter Growth advocate. ULI vice chair, chair of mission advancement, involved in Future Forum on regional collaboration. Family priority: wife Amy (investments), three kids in Adams Morgan. Charitable focus: Jewish community (JCC board, Jewish Federation, Milton Gottesman Jewish Day School). Hockey coach/team manager for son's travel team.

Billboard Message [02:35:58]: "That house you love, the coffee shop, farmers market, grocery store, office—all brought to you by your neighborhood developer." Reminds public development creates the spaces we live in, including parks and playgrounds. Advocates viewing development as ecosystem, working collaboratively vs. demonizing industry, which hinders affordable housing and infrastructure progress.

1. Company Strategy and Structure

Primary Focus [3:25] CEO responsibilities center on exceeding client expectations, ensuring cohesive teamwork embodying company ethos, and platform growth. 

National Operations [4:20] Maintains standards across 15-16 cities through personal CEO visits (monthly/bi-monthly) and "Principal in Charge" in each office embodying firm philosophy. 

Employee Model [6:24] Unlike industry peers, DRE agents are salaried/on draw vs. independent contractors, ensuring clients receive controllable service rather than commission-driven behavior [7:50]. 

Vertical Integration [8:55] Retail deeply engrained from family retailer background. Development's longer lead time/higher risk suits stable employee model. Retail is "glue" in mixed-use developments, providing street-level vibrancy attracting office/residential tenants. 

Realty Resources Network [12:09] Provides national platform of best-in-class local brokerages for seamless nationwide service. Smaller engaged networks led by "deal junkies" [17:23] outperform large publicly-traded firms with heavy infrastructure costs. 

Management [19:32] "Overbalanced on corporate infrastructure" using salaried professional managers, freeing deal-makers to "lead by example." 

1. Origins and Generalist Philosophy

African Origins [22:14] Born in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), moved business to Virginia Beach 1981. Smaller South African economy created "generalist" approach [24:22] across product types—essential for mixed-use development. 

Retail Family Background [27:21] Greek merchant family from Cephalonia [28:44] owned department stores, liquor stores, groceries. Started working age 10 [30:01], learning customer assessment and merchandising strategy. 

Art of Retail [32:45] Store deployment is art, not science. Placemaking engages all human senses—family's florist shops used tuberose scent near door [37:28] to pull customers inside. Experiential retail critical [42:23]—Barnes & Noble survived Amazon through "storytelling" and reading experiences. 

III. Town Center of Virginia Beach 

Opportunity [45:24] Virginia Beach: largest Virginia city by population but lacked CBD. Strong economy, tourism, minimal national broker competition. "Rough diamond" with suburban sprawl needing heart and soul. 

Military Economy [50:40] Hampton Roads houses NATO headquarters, major cyber command, world's largest naval base. Demographics underreported 28% [59:41] due to "hidden economy"—young military retirees with full pensions, free medical, VA loans not counted in salary reports. 

Mixed-Use Success [55:31] Town Center became city's "heart and soul," attracting institutions. Westin (40 stories) is Virginia's tallest structure—iconic landmark. 

TIF Financing [1:21:10] Public entities own parking garages, Performing Arts Center, roads. Funded through TIF (Tax Increment Financing) above 1999 baseline. Changed city charter (1980s) to permit financing. Free parking key to walkability/density success. 

1. Post-COVID Growth

50th Anniversary & Expansion [1:04:03] DRE celebrated 50 years (2024). Stayed open throughout COVID [1:04:31], viewing it as opportunity. Acquired McGarey Group (entertainment/sports development expertise) [1:08:15]. 

D.C. Market [1:09:05] Greater Washington expansion (May 2024) services Northern Virginia requirements. D.C. presence legitimizes national platform internationally. 

Repositioning Strategy [1:13:38] Key: determining if market changed—population shifts, neighborhood relevance. Examples: Tampa mall to back-office space; Newport News mall to shipyard engineering offices [1:16:23]. 

Omnichannel [1:18:29] Stores as showrooms. Pottery Barn/West Elm use in-store terminals/design professionals. Ikea [57:46]: predetermined route + food/entertainment. Lego: experiential with finished models. 

Office Amenities [1:23:02] Real estate as recruitment/retention tool. Class A++ with communal gyms, conference rooms, function spaces. Mixed-use convenience: "live, work, play." 

1. Philosophy and Legacy

Longevity [1:31:53] DRE celebrated 50 years (2024). Longevity (employees up to 47 years) cultivated through "practice what you preach" [1:32:04]—demonstrating hard work, never accepting "no" as final answer. 

Civic Leadership [1:33:13] Central Business District Association involvement essential for understanding community and better customer service. 

Alex Divaris Legacy [1:34:41] Honors late son Alexander (passed age 40 from cancer) through internship program starting at high school level. 

Billboard Message [1:35:00] "Love life. Don't hesitate. Think positive." [1:35:42] Emphasizes U.S. as country of opportunity achievable through hard work and positive focus. 

Contact: john@coeenterprises.com 

Jason Bonnet is Chief Development Officer at Essen, a next-generation development firm. Previously led East Coast Commercial Development for Brookfield Properties ($7B pipeline) and Forest City Realty Trust. Career spans $5B+ development: 4,000+ multifamily units, 1M sf office, 500K+ sf retail. Started Bonnet Development post-UNC. USC MRed, Harvard Business School alumnus.

Key Discussion Points

[00:00:09-00:04:24] Introduction: Background with Forest City, Brookfield, founding Esen.

[00:04:59-00:09:33] Esen Overview: Team of former Forest City/Brookfield executives. Large-scale mixed-use focus, 5,000+ unit pipeline across NY metro, Southeast, Midwest. Lead project: $1.5B Jersey City waterfront (2-3% vacancy, strong demand, Manhattan views, PATH access).

[00:09:55-00:14:01] Early Life: Silver Spring upbringing on Queen Anne's Drive. Father: electrical subcontractor (construction exposure). Mother: Fortune 100 HR executive (negotiation skills). Film production aspirations (Stanley Kubrick) led to real estate. Springbrook High School, UNC.

[00:17:00-00:23:42] Bonnet Development & Pivot: Started company post-dot-com doing Shaw rowhouse conversions (sub-$2M projects). Partnership accounting dispute taught fiduciary responsibility, when to settle vs. litigate. ULI mentorship (Marcel Acosta) led to USC MRed for institutional scale jump.

[00:31:57-00:44:17] Forest City & The Yards: Joined 2011 via mentors Stan Ross, Brian Jones. Debby Ratner Salzberg valued entrepreneurial spirit. 48-acre Southeast DC mixed-use. P4 partnership (DC, GSA, Navy). Eleanor Holmes Norton championed waterfront access. Complex brownfield remediation - Forest City as government agent. Lessons: team collaboration, coalesced vision, passion. DC renaissance period - competitive but collegial, rising tide lifts all boats.

[00:48:17-00:57:26] Yards Development Strategy: Creating neighborhood not just place. Flexible entitlements framework. Retail strategy: Blue Jacket Brewery opened before Harris Teeter - people knew brewery before "The Yards" name. Chef Michael White's Osteria Morini gave legitimacy. Ice Cream Jubilee (attorney turned businesswoman) first location. Attention to detail, patience choosing tenant partners, commitment to long-term success. Retail foundation critical - most complex, detail-oriented real estate sector.

[00:59:18-01:06:43] San Francisco Projects: Led 5M (Fifth & Mission) and Pier 70 after Brookfield acquisition. Biggest difference: intense NIMBYism - sometimes no win-win possible. CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) extends entitlements 8-10 years via traffic study challenges. 5M took 10+ years. Pier 70: fastest California entitlement approval in history via transparency, over-communication, hundreds of community meetings, port authority partnership alignment.

[01:09:18-01:13:50] Scale & Affordability Philosophy: Density builds economy of scale, feeds project economics. More eyes on the ground plane = vibrancy, security, safety. Dynamic public realm. Scale enables affordable housing financially - a difficult concept for government officials. Yards success: Due South restaurant server qualified for 50% AMI unit next door, living and working in community - very rewarding outcome.

[01:17:11-01:26:30] Esen Formation & Values: Started during down cycle - ideal timing. Small, quick, nimble vs. legacy companies. Entrepreneurial spirit, institutional pedigree. Creative solutions. Team of teams, flat organization: CEO Matt Elsesser (Forest City/Brookfield), CIO Dave Boillot (USC classmate), Jim Chang (Croesus Group). Core approach: transparency - one word for negotiations, relationships, partnerships. Quickly builds trust with private partners, cities. Want win-wins for all. Mixed-use not four-letter word - people always want dynamic environments.

[01:29:47-01:46:15] Design & Neuroarchitecture: Most rewarding: seeing vision executed - restaurant you negotiated 2 years prior, celebratory drink, half staff living in your building. Art essential (music, film, built environment). "Your Brain on Art" - awe, transcendence, soul in places. Neuroarchitecture: three key elements creating ambiance - LIGHT (daylighting brutalist structures, welcoming spaces, productivity), SOUND (live music, curated playlists not elevator music, elevate experience), SMELL (bakery bread, coffee roasting - can't go wrong with coffee). Placemaking: being true to place and community, inviting participation, value creation. Does this place have soul or is it soulless? Singularity of vision so strong it permeates entire process to end user.

[01:49:08-01:51:33] Personal Priorities: Family absolute priority. Health (personal, mental). Work-life balance critical - healthy home environment makes you productive at work. Giving back through mentorship - nowhere without mentors like John Coe. Always available for next generation navigating career decisions.

[01:56:56] Billboard Message: "Estoy aquí" (I am here) - reminder to be present in the moment with others.

From Chicago’s skyline to the Amazon HQ2 deal, from design constraints to billion-dollar surpluses, the Hoskins demonstrate how empathy, partnership, and systems-level thinking can reshape cities and careers. Their joint mantra—

“Get wisdom, and with all that getting, get understanding.”
—anchors a conversation that’s equal parts master class and love story.

Chapter Markers

Jamie Weinbaum is President & CEO of Horning, overseeing operations, development, and strategic planning. Previously Executive VP at MidCity (4M sf pipeline), COO at Ditto Residential, development executive at JBG Smith, Director of DC Office of Zoning, and Deputy Mayor for Planning and Economic Development. Former ULI Washington chair. JD from GW Law, BA from Wake Forest.

Key Discussion Points

Career Pivot from Law [00:00-13:17]

• Childhood passion for built environment - sketching houses, playing with Legos
• 2006 revelation with wife: "what you do 9am-7pm doesn't really do it for me"
• Marrying passions with profession leads to happier life and more successful career
• Started Atlanta home renovations as side hustle while practicing law

Real Estate Entry via AJ Jackson [13:17-25:42]

• AJ Jackson instrumental in first development job at EYA in 2007
• Developer as "conductor of the orchestra" - coordinating subject matter experts
• Ownership side vs. consultant preference: "you're part of the story for years"
• 2008 downturn layoff after 9 months confirmed industry passion

DC Government Leadership [25:42-37:33]

• Became Director of Office of Zoning under Mayor Fenty administration
• Crash course in leadership: humility, listening, bringing people along
• Technology focus: converting paper zoning maps to online GIS resources
• "Level the playing field" philosophy for residents

JBG Development Experience [37:33-51:30]

• 2011-2014: Twin Brook metro projects, Fort Totten Square (Walmart mixed-use)
• Risk mitigation and preserving optionality as core JBG principles
• Investment committee meetings: "nobody held back" - heated debates
• Real estate development requires communication, analytics, design

Family Business Philosophy [51:30-1:05:15]

• Hired business coach specializing in family companies at MidCity
• Role as fiduciary working on behalf of family to accomplish their aims
• Alignment between personal values and family mission critically important
• Multi-generational companies face unique succession challenges

Horning Strategy & Amazon Partnership [1:05:15-1:20:45]

• "Mission-driven for profit" organization focused on affordable housing
• Plaza Towers acquisition: Amazon Housing Equity Fund + 99-year affordability covenant
• Creative financing: Freddie primary debt + Amazon below-market mezzanine
• Locks in affordability for 288 units at 80% AMI in gentrifying Hyattsville

Development Challenges [1:20:45-1:35:20]

• 901 Monroe/Ravenna: 25-year timeline for 230-unit project due to appeals
• Ground-up development "really, really tough environment" in DC region
• Acquisition at below replacement cost preferred over new construction
• Advocates sometimes oppose affordable housing projects intended to help residents

Personal Integration Philosophy [1:35:20-1:48:30]

• "Integration" not "balance" - career, family, community as separate cups
• Each cup must be tended individually - one full cup can't fill others
• Striving for peace and wholeness across all life dimensions

Market Outlook [1:48:30-2:05:00]

• Federal surplus property disposal could create "next wharf" opportunity
• Independence Avenue to Wharf corridor: extraordinary development potential
• Need bipartisan political consensus for multi-year development projects

Resources:

https://www.horningdc.com/

Leadership Philosophy [114:00-125:00]
Key Moment: Len Forkas' son Matt joined the company after five years of external experience 15.
Business Lesson: Trust and preparation are essential for success in both business and extreme sports. Letting team members own and solve problems is crucial
Next challenge: North Pole expedition, but prioritizing family and team presence for now.

RESOURCES:
https://www.lenforkas.com/
https://coeenterprises.com/podcast/len-forkas-renaissance-man-33/
What Spins The Wheel: https://www.amazon.com/What-Spins-Wheel-Leadership-Lessons/dp/0996096906?sr=8-2
Cold Hard Truth: https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Hard-Truth-Special-Color-ebook/dp/B09VDY69FC?sr=8-1
https://www.hopecam.org/
https://youtu.be/D6qjcwEVQYc

Hilary Allard Goldfarb is Senior Managing Director and Head of Development for Mid-Atlantic at Rockefeller Group. Native Washingtonian, Princeton graduate, Harvard Urban Planning master's. Previously at Bozzuto Development and ProMark Real Estate. Active in ULI, Federal City Council, Economic Club.

Key Discussion Points

Rockefeller Group Role [00:00-08:38]

• Leads D.C. office overseeing development, acquisitions, design, financing
• Diverse portfolio: multifamily, industrial, office, mixed-use including "catalytic trophy product"
• National platform empowers regional creativity without product ideology
• Six regional directors nationally focused on "most compelling deals"

Career Journey [10:01-27:17]

• Driven by excellence, hard work, integrity
• Strong Japanese investor relations (Mitsubishi affiliates) - visits every 2-3 weeks
• Focus on diversity, collaboration, creative problem-solving
• "World's greatest colleagues" - no palace politics

• Native Washingtonian, Garrett Park/Montgomery County roots
• Princeton (with twin brother Nate), Harvard Urban Planning
• Corcoran Gallery experience during Frank Gehry expansion
• Started at ProMark (Metro-adjacent development with Eisinger family)
• Joined Bozzuto (Crown Farm, Chevy Chase Lake projects - met Toby at dentist)
• Recruited to Rockefeller Group in 2018 to "start a business" - said no multiple times initially

Major Projects [29:00-53:00]

• Boro Tower, Tysons: 437k sq ft trophy office with Meridian Group, stabilized occupancy
• 1901 L Street NW: First WELL-certified office building in D.C., focus on energy efficiency and tenant experience
• 600 Fifth Street NW: $375M downtown redevelopment of former Metro HQ, only new office under construction in D.C., 400k sq ft, 50% pre-leased to Crowell & Moring, historic site of DC's first synagogue and Metro's money vault
• Port 460 Logistics: 5M sq ft industrial development near Port of Virginia with Matan Companies, leveraging port-centric expertise

Industry Insights [57:00-70:00]

• Bullish on D.C.'s resilience despite current challenges, believes in long-term competitive advantages
• $2.3B pipeline includes three trophy office, three industrial, two multifamily projects
• Development strategy: develop, stabilize, sell (not long-term hold)
• Emphasizes placemaking and BID efforts for downtown vitality
• Values partnerships over going solo - "sum is greater than its parts"

Company Culture [1:02:19-1:03:43]

• Driven by excellence, hard work, integrity
• "World's greatest colleagues" - no palace politics
• Focus on diversity, collaboration, creative problem-solving

Advice & Personal Philosophy [1:18:25-1:25:05]
Billboard message: "Hard work gets noticed and beats luck, coincidence, and favors" - her father Nick Allard's adage. Work-life integration rather than balance - children visit construction sites, color plan sets, know her colleagues. Active in ULI (chairs Federal City Council Developer Roundtable), Economic Club.

Evan Regan-Levine is Chief Strategy Officer at JBG Smith, shaping investment approaches through data analytics, strategic initiatives, and investor relations. Key role in National Landing transformation and Amazon HQ2. Previously JLL research analyst and Monday Properties Associate. Georgetown Political Science graduate who pivoted from law school track to real estate after art professor suggested architecture.

Key Discussion Points

Strategic Priorities [3:06-8:35]

• National Landing transformation beyond Amazon: residential, retail, infrastructure
• Capital allocation focus: maximizing NAV per share for JBGS, targeted acquisitions
• Leveraging permanent capital as public company vs. fund life cycles

Career Journey [8:47-32:23]

• Academic family: law professor father, first-grade teacher mother
• Georgetown, planned law school until real estate internship in Pittsburgh
• JLL research exposed him to all verticals: investment sales, leasing, development
• In 2013, he joined JBG as research associate working for Matt Kelly
• Investment committee exposure from day one with industry veterans

Real Estate Philosophy [20:08-26:00] Success requires: communication, analytics, design

• Design undervalued but critical - example: functional dryer vents vs. beautiful facades
• Market research informs decisions - Amazon focus groups changed architecture
• Multifamily as consumer product requiring research like cars/phones
• Hospitality mindset essential across all property types

Crystal Park One [$40M Repositioning] [43:19-52:53]

• 300-person conference center ("hotel ballroom without hotel")
• Ground floor activation with street engagement
• JLL operates conference, Episcope handles Food & Beverage
• Aviation theme: Constellation café, Altitude vinyl wine bar
• Nooks Works partnership for classified meeting space

National Landing Strategy [37:03-43:00] "Regional mall" approach with anchors: Pentagon, Amazon (8K today, up to 38K), Virginia Tech

• Demolished excess office, tripled street retail, added multifamily
• Scale and control enables neighborhood-wide placemaking investments

Amazon Return-to-Office [78:35-87:00]

• Five-day mandate positive: apartment leasing, foot traffic increases
• Office demand permanently lower but utilization shifting toward collaboration
• AI may reduce heads-down work, increase collaborative importance

Investment Philosophy [95:22-103:33]

• Structure deals for maximum optionality when volatility hits
• Investment committee discipline: anyone can veto deals
• Public company permanent capital allows long-term vision execution

Virginia Tech Impact [103:33-107:04]

• Produces clearable talent for defense technology sector
• Technology transfer creates university spin-offs
• Helps retain engineering talent historically exported from region

Community Impact [116:19-122:33]

• Leo Impact Capital: for-profit affordable housing fund
• Policy engagement on innovation districts
• Scale enables transformative community investments

Personal [127:17-140:02]

• Automotive enthusiast with garage lifts for restoration
• BMW M3s, Porsche 911 favorites
• Professional networking through car connections
• Air and Space Museum supporter

JBG Future [140:02-145:33]

• Constants: change and people-focused culture
• Merit-based advancement: anyone can lead company
• 13-year relationships with core team

Billboard Message [145:33]  Placing on National Landing: "The future is built here" - greatest concentration of innovation and national security.

Related Episodes: 

Matt Kelly

Moina Banerjee

AJ Jackson

(00:00) Introduction to second interview. Former Amazon Housing Equity Fund director, Atlanta Housing CEO, Harvard Kennedy School Loeb Fellow.

(03:14) New company Wellness Real Estate Innovations - bringing wellness real estate solutions to diverse urban audiences at intersection of health and housing.

(03:42) Personal motivation: mother's dementia/loneliness during COVID highlighted lack of aging options even in expensive continuum care facilities.

(05:33) Philosophy: housing is healthcare and building with care. Traditional housing continuum has cracks - expensive senior housing, limited diverse options. Beautiful places impact how you feel through social connection, walkability, vibrancy.

(09:05) Amazon lessons: Corporate investments influence markets but can't solve entire spectrum. Healthcare organizations increasingly investing in affordable housing targeting high-cost patients. Innovation gap for aging demographic - need co-housing, shared living, wellness communities.

(15:23) Combat loneliness through intentional community design - new urbanist model plus different housing types, oversized green spaces, shared amenities for organic connection.

(17:06) Alternative models: co-housing, shared living, ADUs. PadSplit's tech approach for $27K income essential workers - streamlined access to furnished shared rooms. Shared models add people without changing community character, help aging in place.

(21:26) Key challenge: lack of documented data on wellness community benefits. Need to document outcomes from 1990s/2000s wellness communities.

(23:37) Global Wellness Institute trends:

• Wellness as Infrastructure (WAI) - Bhutan mindfulness city
• Wellness as Service (WAAS) - integrated cleaning, nursing, caregiving
• Wellness ROI (WROI) - significantly higher returns
• Longevity Economy (WRELE) - aging population focus

(27:38) Gap: middle-income households with $80-120K retirement income can't afford elite wellness solutions ($400K-$1M deposits), don't want to leave social networks.

(32:48) Policy needs: data on health/housing intersection, true cost of "do nothing" strategy, economic benefits. Fastest growing DC population is 55+. Loneliness epidemic costs $6.7B annually to Medicaid.

(37:20) Example: dementia village in Ward 7 - 13% of DC seniors have dementia (16% east of river). Netherlands-inspired model with store, pub, church, arts room for quality of life vs traditional memory care.

(45:02) Vision: "love villages" for all incomes/races, especially African-American women. 20-year plan for third trimester of life - staying engaged, active, socially connected.

(47:47) Advice: think outside box, start conversations at zoning stage, consider demographic shifts. Half of five-year-olds today expected to live to 100.

(50:34) Data needs: true cost of scattered-site aging approach vs building-based services. Scale understanding - seniors on fixed income ending up in homeless shelters due to high rent.

(55:05) Dream: healthcare company partnership like Amazon model. Bold investments shift markets. DC has higher income retirees as asset.

(58:02) Large-scale insights: Takes time but start somewhere. Even $2B Amazon investment wasn't enough - need everyone's resources including data, land, support, thought leadership.

(61:12) Harvard Loeb Fellowship transformative - stepped back, reflected, met amazing global innovators. Inspired by young people paying attention to details.

(63:47) Teaching role keeps energy up, learning from students exploring health/housing innovations.

(64:49) Wellness real estate as investment category: Hope integrates into all asset classes, not siloed. References "Bowling Alone" - loss of civic connections, shift to individualism. AI may increase focus on personal wellbeing.

(69:18) Asset class integration:

• Hospitality: business travel community experiences, coworking spaces
• Office: well building certifications, air quality, collaboration spaces
• Retail: spas, fitness studios, sensory experiences, food halls as gathering spaces

(71:44) Resources: Global Wellness Institute annual real estate report, Jeremy Noble's "Project Unlonely", Ezra Klein

James Barlia is Executive Director of Station DC, a private members club for Frontier Tech innovators, investors, and policy makers advancing American national interest. Previously VP at Revolution's Rise of the Rest Seed Fund (Steve Case) investing in startups outside traditional tech hubs. Earlier worked at Greenspring Associates in fund of funds/impact VC. DC native, Tulane graduate.

Key Discussion Points

Station DC Overview [1:11-3:00]

• Private members club for frontier tech in DC
• 13,000 sq ft space in Union Market for work, meetings, events
• Mission: Ensure American tech leadership endures with DC at forefront
• Focus on economic development, business attraction, diversification from federal government

Background & Journey [3:49-10:07]

• Influenced by entrepreneur father's renewable energy work
• Failed toothpaste startup in high school led to meeting angel investor
• Internship at 1776 DC tech incubator exposed him to impactful founders
• Learned "Rise of the Rest" thesis at Greenspring before joining Revolution

Venture Insights [11:02-17:00]

• Innovation exists everywhere, not just traditional hubs
• Place creates competitive advantage through network effects
• Key founder qualities: intrinsic motivation, unique insights, relentless effort
• Evaluation requires time, multiple meetings, references

Market Observations

• SVB Collapse [21:05-25:02]: Created resilience, highlighted treasury management importance
• Amazon HQ2 [26:10-27:00]: Real impact on talent/real estate but job numbers lower than marketed
• DC Commercial Real Estate [29:10-34:00]: Tech startups need flexible office space; landlords should offer flexibility and engage directly with founders

DC Tech Ecosystem [40:08-43:00]

• Influx driven by critical sectors: space, energy, synthetic biology, AI, defense
• Tech companies view DC as ally, not adversary
• Has required talent, customers (federal gov't, Fortune 500), knowledge, capital
• Major VC firms establishing DC satellite offices

Emerging Trends [63:00-67:00] Beyond AI: data centers, space economy, robotics, autonomy, defense systems. Frontier tech companies need dollars, talent, customers, capital - often found in DC.

Advice for Young Professionals [69:00-95:00]

• VC Aspirants: Develop thick skin, be non-consensus thinkers, be relentless learners, think systemically
• DC Entrepreneurs: Leverage proximity to policymakers, investors, diverse talent pool
• Critical Skills: Social/emotional intelligence, AI interaction ability, problem-solving
• Key Strategy: Reach out across sectors, understand problems, make people's lives easier
• Most Important: "Just start doing things" - test hypotheses, have conversations, orient toward action

Economic Development [74:10-87:00] Key levers: housing and education. Need to repurpose buildings, potentially remove height limits, retain university graduates. Universities aligning curriculum with local economy in cyber/national security.

Billboard Message [95:35] "Things don't always happen for the best, but you can always make the best out of things that happen."

Similar Episode:

Ben Miller (https://coeenterprises.com/podcast/ben-miller-forging-technology-into-real-estate-investing-part-1-19/)

Show Notes

Strategic Transition (6:00)

• Pivoted from Cushman and Wakefield regional presidency to found LNSS Advisors focusing on data center advisory
• Positioned data centers as critical infrastructure underpinning the AI revolution and digital economy
• Launched firm immediately after C&W departure, targeting high-growth sector with specialized expertise
• Combines commercial real estate advisory with highest and best use evaluations and data center focus

Personal Foundation (9:45)

• Atlantic City upbringing provided firsthand exposure to real estate valuation principles
• Father's FAA Tech Center background fostered interest in technical systems and early computer modeling
• Mother's artistic influence balanced technical perspective with creative problem-solving
• Observed demolition of historic Marlborough-Blenheim Hotel, demonstrating highest/best use concepts
• Atlantic City's casino redevelopment provided early lessons in market transformation dynamics

Technical Expertise (19:00)

• Penn State Architectural Engineering provided technical foundation for complex asset evaluation
• Initial interest in architecture evolved toward technical engineering applications
• Early career at Kirlin focused on raised floor infrastructure for technology tenants
• Worked on Bethesda Metro Center and Clark building for Wang Corporation computer equipment
• Transitioned to construction management to build credibility in development process (22:00)
• On-site experience at Franklin Property (BF Saul) handling tenant build-outs for early tech companies

Leadership Progression (40:00)

• Henry Long: Managed Martin Marietta's mission-critical infrastructure for FTS 2000 government contract
• Experience coincided with early Northern Virginia telecom infrastructure development
• Witnessed Route 28/Dulles corridor growth creating data center ecosystem foundations
• Recruited by Bob Cohen, Roberta joined Barnes Morris and Pardoe, entering brokerage during a difficult period (45:00)
• Developed capital markets expertise through Principal Financial Group collaboration
• Charles E. Smith (53:00): Leased properties in Upper Northwest DC and Bethesda
• Secured significant NIH off-campus relocation through strategic relationship development
• Advanced to regional leadership at Trammell Crow, balancing development and brokerage
• She worked with notable people like Bruce Pascal
• BECO Management:  Strategic portfolio advisory under Jeff Cohen
• C&W : Led regional integration and expansion across Northeast markets
• Successfully rebuilt Boston market, significantly increasing revenue through life sciences focus

Data Center Strategy (1:35:00)

• Decision to focus on economic drivers, disruptors and growth sectors for "final chapter"
• Leveraged architectural engineering background and early technology experience
• Views data centers as laboratories housing IT/cloud computing applications
• Key market challenges: power constraints, infrastructure requirements, human capital, ESG considerations
• Critical site selection factors: risk profile, permitting pathways, connectivity metrics, resource availability
• Data centers require almost every engineering discipline with complex infrastructure needs

Investment Trends (1:50:00)

• Shift toward campus-scale land assemblages (200-2000+ acres) for infrastructure efficiency
• Public REITs and private equity driving investment strategies
• Forward-positioned land acquisition strategies by hyperscalers securing future capacity
• AWS transitioning from colocation to owned facilities for greater control
• AI computing demands driving substantial facility redesign requirements
• Opportunity: adaptive reuse of underperforming office assets for urban data centers
• Fiscal impact for jurisdictions exceeding $1B in Loudoun County (45% of tax rate)
• Compares data center boom to "1849 California Gold Rush - high-tech version"
• Alternative energy solutions advancing with Microsoft's Constellation/Three Mile Island deal

Market Guidance (2:15:00)

• Sector specialization essential in technically complex asset class
• Economic driver analysis critical to site selection advantage
• Strategic team building necessary for large-scale land assemblage
• Understanding industrial development fundamentals (transportation, environmental, drainage)
• Self-investment in education while maintaining professional practice

Leadership & Community Perspective (2:25:00)

• Boys & Girls Club involvement supporting educational opportunity
• Diversity of perspective enhances investment and development decision-making 
• Values collaborative approach between genders for stronger outcomes
• Risk management philosophy: "next" - always have alternative opportunities ready
• Leadership philosophy centers on service to clients, teams and colleagues
• Final message : "Be kind" in judgment, giving, and community-building

Owen Billman is the President of Blake Real Estate, managing a 2.5 million sq ft portfolio and eight companies. He previously facilitated over $1 billion in CRE transactions and is a speaker at universities and corporations. Awarded CREBA's 2014 Leasing Transaction of the Year and BISNOW's Top 35 under 35. He chairs the American Heart Association's Greater Washington Region, is a board member of the KCNT1 Epilepsy Foundation, and co-founded the Junior Council supporting Children's National Health System.

REVISED SHOW NOTES

[0:00-1:38] Introduction and Guest: John Coe introduces the "Icons of DC Area Real Estate" podcast and its partnership with Iconic Journey in CRE. Owen Billman, President of Blake Real Estate and Chair of the Golden Triangle BID, is welcomed. His career, Blake’s strategies, and DC's future are discussed.

[1:38-5:11] Owen's Role at Blake: Owen describes his role, focusing on portfolio performance and managing leasing, property management, and construction. He mentions growing third-party management while emphasizing the core portfolio.

[5:11-9:42] Background: Owen shares his upbringing in rural Southern Maryland and working at his father's hardware store, learning customer service and work ethic.

[9:42-14:28] University: Owen recounts his time at the University of Maryland, including the impact of 9/11, and deciding to stay in the DC area.

[14:28-22:14] Starting at Co-Star: Owen details his entry-level job at Co-Star, learning about CRE data collection and analysis.

[22:14-27:02] Market and Blake: Owen reflects on market trends during the Global Financial Crisis and joining Blake in 2010.

[27:02-36:53] Blake's Evolution and Lease Structure: Owen describes learning Blake's unique cash flow model and lease structure. He explains the pros and cons vs. market standards.

[36:53-44:06] Leadership and Rollup Strategy: Owen discusses his leadership transition and Blake's recent rollup strategy to consolidate ownership and flexibility.

[44:06-52:24] Market Adaptability: Owen reflects on Blake’s adaptability during the pandemic, distressed assets, and retailer impact. He shares Blake’s occupancy rate and return to the office.

[52:24-61:44] GSA and Golden Triangle BID: Owen discusses Blake’s GSA leasing experience and his role as Chair of the Golden Triangle BID, advocating for downtown revitalization.

[61:44-78:21] DC's Future: Owen addresses "why DC?" in the context of remote work and strategies to attract new industries, create a 24/7 city, and potential projects.

[78:21-93:23] Change Catalysts: Owen highlights past catalysts for DC's development and the need for a catalyst employer, a new pitch beyond government, and expresses optimism.

[93:23-102:56] John Coe and Community: John Coe discusses Iconic Journey in CRE. Owen shares advice for young professionals and talks about Blake's culture and tech adoption.

[102:56-111:22] Heart Association and Initiatives: Owen discusses the American Heart Association and Blake's initiatives, including collaborative space and flexible work.

[111:22-119:01] Advice and Closing: Owen gives advice, emphasizing family, work, and giving back. He reflects on DC and its future. John Coe thanks Owen, and Owen reciprocates.

• Steve Lustgarten
• Toby Millman
• Gary Cohen

Bio

Moiz Doriwala is a seasoned professional with a diverse background spanning real estate finance, investment, and entrepreneurship …. Growing up in Naperville, Illinois, his interest in real estate was sparked by his father’s career as a general contractor and developer.

He pursued higher education, earning a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from the University of Chicago and an MBA in Finance and Management and Strategy from Northwestern University’s Kellogg Graduate School of Management. His early career began in the finance sector with a unique rotational program at Bank One (later JP Morgan Chase), where he gained experience in asset-backed securities trading, commercial loan workouts, leveraged leasing, and even worked in a strategic group under Jamie Dimon. He further honed his investment banking skills in the Financial Sponsor Group of J.P. Morgan Securities in New York, focusing on M&A transactions and various financing activities.

In 2005, Mr. Doriwala transitioned to the real estate industry, joining S&R Land Development, LLC in Reston, VA, where he was involved in the development of residential and commercial land. Leveraging his financial acumen and real estate exposure, he later became Vice President of Perseus Realty Capital, LLC, specializing in joint venture equity, preferred equity, and mezzanine financings.

In 2008, Mr. Doriwala formed his own umbrella company, Stirling Realty Advisors, LLC, a boutique real estate investment bank that provides financial advisory services, primarily focusing on raising debt and equity capital for real estate developers and operators nationwide. While initially focused on capital raising, Stirling has evolved into a vehicle for his various investment activities.

Under the Stirling umbrella, Mr. Doriwala manages and invests in several businesses, including:

• Bookhill Park: An entity that manages a series of small funds and operates as a finance company, providing opportunistic lending across various industries and geographies
• Investments in mental health and behavioral health businesses
• Investments in one off LPs in apartment projects
• His role as President of Superior Living Foundation Inc., a 501c3 non-profit focused on owning businesses in the healthcare region, such as senior housing and behavioral health facilities1 ….

Mr. Doriwala also has experience in the senior housing sector, having served as Treasurer for Meridian Senior Living …. Additionally, he was involved in the mobile home park business for a number of years through BHP, building and eventually exiting a portfolio of parks.

Throughout his career, Mr. Doriwala has demonstrated an opportunistic and entrepreneurial approach, building strong relationships and a reputation for his ability to navigate complex transactions and provide creative financial solutions. He values strong partnerships, thorough due diligence, and trusting his instincts in his investment decisions.

Show Notes

• [6:30] Introduction to Moiz Doriwala and his diverse business background. He manages or participates in managing at least three businesses.
• [7:00] Overview of Sterling Realty Advisors. Formed in 2008 as an umbrella company for advising real estate operators and developers on capital raising (joint venture equity, mezz, preferred equity, debt financing). Now primarily a vehicle for personal and business investment activities.
• [7:50] Discussion of Sterling as an investor. Investing in individual real estate projects and companies, often as a passive investor or advisor.
• [8:20] Introduction to Bookhill Park. An entity managed by Moiz, functioning as a finance company providing loans across various industries and geographies, focusing on the borrower and path to repayment.
• [9:10] Overview of investments in mental health and behavioral health businesses.
• [9:20] Moiz’s role as President of Superior Living Foundation Inc. A 501c3 non-profit focused on owning businesses in the healthcare region (senior housing, behavioral health, substance abuse).
• [9:55] Moiz shares his origins and early life in Naperville, Illinois. Noteworthy growth of the suburb outside Chicago.
• [10:40] Influence of his father’s career as a general contractor and developer on his early real estate exposure.
• [11:05] Initial aspirations to be a lawyer but a shift to finance and banking during college at the University of Chicago (Economics).
• [11:30] First job at Bank One and the unique two-and-a-half-year rotational program with simultaneous part-time MBA at Northwestern Kellogg.
• [12:15] Rotations at Bank One: Asset-backed securities trading desk, managed assets (commercial loan workout group, including the Safety Clean bankruptcy), leveraged leasing group, and “skunk works” group working directly for Jamie Dimon.
• [14:30] Rotation in the banks’ merger and acquisition (M&A) group.
• [14:45] Unique aspect of the Bank One program: Obtaining an MBA (paid for by the bank) through evening classes while working full-time.
• [16:15] Jamie Dimon’s arrival at Bank One as CEO during Moiz’s time there.
• [16:30] Merger of Bank One with JP Morgan Chase and Moiz’s move to New York to work in the investment bank’s financial sponsors group.
• [16:45] Fond memories of working in JP Morgan’s financial sponsor group. Considered a top group on the street with a strong balance sheet and access to private equity firms.
• [18:40] Decision to leave JP Morgan in 2005 due to his wife’s desire to return to the DC area and the demanding hours of investment banking.
• [19:30] Intense work hours in investment banking: Regularly working 12+ hour days, seven days a week, sometimes sleeping at the office.
• [20:15] Wife’s background in the real estate industry and understanding of the demanding work schedule.
• [20:20] Opportunity to join his wife’s family’s business in land development in the growing DC area, prompted by his father-in-law coming out of retirement to help a large home builder.
• [20:50] Reasons for leaving high finance for land development: Opportunity to learn real estate on someone else’s dollar, educational and financial rewards, and the desire to move to DC.
• [21:30] Eye-opening experience transitioning from Wall Street to land development. Different work hours and the need for patience when dealing with the public sector.
• [23:15] Realization that residential land development was not the right fit.
• [23:30] The financial crisis impacting the land development industry. Fortunate timing of selling their last project before the major downturn.
• [24:25] Pivoting after the financial crisis to Perseus Realty Capital. A brokerage firm focused on financing real estate transactions (joint venture equity, mezzanine, preferred equity).
• [25:15] Reasons for choosing Perseus over larger national players: Desire for a smaller, newer firm with more control over destiny, having experienced both very large and very small companies.
• [26:25] Perseus’s evolution to PRP real estate and shift from intermediary to asset management.
• [26:45] Learning curve at Perseus regarding traditional real estate financing. Understanding mortgage financing, mezzanine debt in real estate, and the role of institutional investors and private equity funds.
• [27:45] Focus on networking and finding new sources of capital for clients at Perseus.
• [28:50] Most challenging deal at Perseus: A high-rise residential building in Denver during the financial crisis where the senior loan fell through after construction began.
• [29:30] Securing mezzanine financing for the Denver project with another intermediary bringing in Corus Bank as the senior lender.
• [30:10] Challenges with Corus after Starwood took over, transitioning from dealing with a bank to an opportunity fund.
• [31:10] Comparison of the lending environment today (more cautious with lower loan-to-cost, higher rates, stronger covenants) compared to before COVID.
• [32:30] Overview of Bookhill Park’s lending activities. Opportunistic lending beyond just real estate, including first and second mortgages, mezzanine, unsecured and secured loans, asset-based loans, inventory financing, payroll loans to government contractors, and factoring.
• [33:20] Origin of Bookhill Park’s lending business: Helping a government contractor with payroll financing due to challenges with traditional bank lending for new contractors.
• [34:20] Higher return expectations in Bookhill Park’s early lending days (17%+) compared to today (12-15%) due to increased private credit competition.
• [36:00] Impact of higher generic interest rates versus the decrease in Bookhill Park’s targeted returns due to market competition.
• [36:50] Bookhill Park’s patient capital base (personal capital, friends, family, investors) allows for selectivity in deals.
• [38:10] Evolution of Stirling Realty Advisors post-Perseus, focusing on national JV equity and mezzanine raising with a business partner.
• [38:50] Strategies for finding clients and investors: Networking at conferences (ULI), cold calling developers, and building relationships.
• [39:55] Business partner’s departure and Moiz continuing as a sole entrepreneur with Stirling, leading to involvement in other businesses through new partnerships.
• [40:30] Evolution of the senior living business involvement. Initial capital raising for healthcare deals leading to a role at Meridian Senior Living.
• [41:20] Role as Treasurer at Meridian Senior Living. Initially part-time but became more significant, involving corporate infrastructure and learning the operations-focused nature of the healthcare business.
• [42:50] Financing structure of Meridian Senior Living: Real estate financed by traditional sources (opportunity funds, REITs) through leases, while operations were primarily financed by the three partners.
• [43:20] Involvement in raising capital for Meridian.
• [43:30] Managing banking relationships at Meridian. The partners had existing relationships, but Moiz also brought new ones.
• [44:20] Growth and evolution of Meridian: Hiring a full-time treasurer and assistant treasurer, and starting ancillary businesses (pharmacies, therapy business).
• [45:20] Parallel development of Bookhill Park and how relationships from the senior housing business led to healthcare lending deals.
• [46:00] Bookhill Park’s unique lending advantage in the senior housing space: Ability to potentially take over management due to the operating company connection.
• [46:30] Bookhill Park’s partnership with regional banks to do larger “A/B” structure loans, effectively syndicating the “A” piece.
• [48:30] Mobile home park business (BHP): Parallel investment with a different group of partners, attracted by limited supply and affordable housing characteristics.
• [50:15] Portfolio size of mobile home parks at its peak.
• [50:20] Opportunistic investment strategy leading to eventual exits from mobile home park projects.
• [50:45] Sale of a well-located mobile home park in Maryland after a short ownership period due to a strong offer.
• [51:30] Institutionalization of the mobile home park space over the last 15 years, leading to increased competition and higher acquisition costs, making current returns less attractive.
• [52:00] Challenges in the current mobile home park market: Increased broker presence and sellers having unrealistic price expectations.
• [52:50] Differences between mobile home park and traditional multifamily operations.
• [53:10] Section 8 in mobile home parks.
• [53:30] Potential future re-entry into the mobile home park market when institutional capital exits.
• [54:10] Formation of Superior Living Foundation Inc. (501c3) in 2017 by the principals at Meridian Senior Living to grow their presence in senior housing and healthcare through tax-exempt opportunities.
• [56:00] Avoiding conflicts of interest between the non-profit and for-profit entities. Independent board for the non-profit making decisions at market rates with multiple operator options.
• [57:15] Interesting financing assignments: Maritime claim settlement through Bookhill Park, involving learning about maritime law and insurance claims.
• [59:30] Recent closing of a 14-property skilled nursing portfolio acquisition by Superior Living Foundation. A tax-exempt bond deal with institutional buyers, aimed at growing the foundation’s ability to provide healthcare services.
• [1:01:30] Reflection on John’s early prediction of Moiz’s success and their collaborative transactions over the years.
• [1:01:45] Moiz’s experience in the ULI mentorship program with John as his mentor.
• [1:02:30] Value of their ongoing relationship and how it has led to successful introductions and investment opportunities, including a senior housing deal in Florida and multiple investments in a former mentee’s multifamily projects.
• [1:04:40] Advice for young listeners on investment criteria and sponsor selection. Prioritizing the sponsor, location, and the sponsor’s financial resources and “skin in the game.”
• [1:07:00] Views on signing recourse loans. Moiz’s partner’s perspective on the development game.
• [1:08:00] Not personally willing to act as a co-GP solely for providing a guarantee.
• [1:08:30] Ability to bring both equity and a guarantor to a deal.
• [1:08:45] The unique aspect of Moiz’s ability to raise capital and bring a group of investors to deals.
• [1:09:50] Investment philosophy and what sets Moiz apart: Creativity without a fixed “box,” focusing on the story and exit, and a commitment to doing what they say they will.
• [1:12:00] Clarification on partnership structure: While Stirling is his sole business, almost all other ventures involve partnerships.
• [1:12:30] Importance of having partners to bounce ideas off of.
• [1:13:00] Time management strategies: Making lists, prioritizing, managing multiple transactions, relying on mental organization, and detailed calendar use.
• [1:14:20] Financial management: Working with an accountant and using QuickBooks for many entities.
• [1:15:15] Lean administrative structure.
• [1:16:00] Personal management of investor payouts for Bookhill Park.
• [1:16:30] Utilizing technology for tracking investments (example of Colin’s investor portal) and the recommendation to invest in such technology.
• [1:17:00] Limited personal exploration of AI but an interest in future use.
• [1:17:30] Use of a wealth management firm with strong technology to track personal and investment financials.
• [1:17:45] Effectively having a “family office” through their wealth management firm’s tracking capabilities.
• [1:18:30] Ensuring his wife knows the location of important financial information.
• [1:19:00] Challenging trends and unique opportunities in investments and capital markets today: Uncertainty due to government changes, tariffs, and financial market fluctuations. Lending still tough, potential impact of rising unemployment on real estate. Possible positive impact on office sector.
• [1:20:30] Trends in the senior housing business: Demographic upside (“silver tsunami”) but challenges with increasing labor, food, and supply costs not yet matched by rent increases. Impact of stock market and interest rates on affordability. Financing and construction costs remain high.
• [1:22:00] Dynamics in the skilled nursing space: Reliance on Medicaid with capped payments and potential cuts creating nervousness.
• [1:23:15] Growth potential in healthcare in general and the role of AI.
• [1:23:45] Growth potential in the energy business, including passive energy.
• [1:24:00] Concerns and questions surrounding the office sector: Return to office trends, occupancy rates, and the efficiency of operating buildings with hybrid work models. Impact on retail demand.
• [1:24:45] Approach to future investments: Remaining opportunistic and open-minded across various sectors, continuing high-quality lending and partnerships, and focusing on good real estate in prime locations.
• [1:26:00] The unique value of Moiz’s diverse experience across institutional finance, small entrepreneurial groups, agency, and principal roles.
• [1:26:15] Accepting that not all ventures will succeed and the importance of learning from both successes and failures.
• [1:26:45] Most surprising lessons learned: No guarantees in business or life, and the critical importance of personally verifying key information rather than solely relying on team members or partners.
• [1:28:30] Advice to his 25-year-old self: Be curious, be patient, be a hustler, slow down (balance opportunism with thorough execution), and be passionate.
• [1:29:55] Priorities of family, work, and giving back: Family is paramount with a focus on spending time with his children. Strong emphasis on giving back in the education space, both domestically and internationally.
• [1:30:30] Supporting various educational organizations.
• [1:31:30] Final question: What would a billboard on the Capitol Beltway say? “Trust your gut.”
• [1:32:00] Reflection on times when trusting his gut paid off and, more significantly, times when ignoring his gut led to negative outcomes.
• [1:32:20] Accepting missed opportunities without regret.
• [1:33:20] Thank you and closing remarks.

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Bio

As the founder of Real Estate Financial Modeling (REFM), Bruce Kirsch has trained thousands of students and professionals around the world in Excel-based projection analysis.  In addition, REFM’s self-study products, Excel-based templates and its Valuate^® property valuation and investment analysis software are used by more than 100,000 professionals.  Mr. Kirsch’s firm has assisted with modeling for the raising of billions of dollars of equity and debt for individual property acquisitions and developments, as well as for major mixed-use projects and private equity funds. Mr. Kirsch has also maintained a blog on real estate financial modeling, Model for Success, authoring more than 500 posts, and he is the co-author of Real Estate Finance and Investments: Risks and Opportunities, along with Dr. Peter Linneman.

Mr. Kirsch began his real estate career at CB Richard Ellis, where he marketed highrise New York City office buildings for re-development in the Midtown Manhattan Investment Properties Institutional Group.  After CBRE, Mr. Kirsch was recruited to lead acquisitions at Metropolis Development Company, and later joined The Clarett Group, a programmatic development partner of Prudential.

While at The Clarett Group, Mr. Kirsch was responsible for making development site recommendations for office, condominium and multi-family properties in the greater Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.  In addition, Mr. Kirsch had significant day-to-day project management responsibilities for the entitlement, financing and marketing of the company’s existing D.C.-area development portfolio.

Mr. Kirsch holds an MBA in Real Estate from The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where he was awarded the Benjamin Franklin Kahn/Washington Real Estate Investment Trust Award for academic excellence.  Prior to Wharton, Mr. Kirsch performed quantitative equity research on the technology sector at The Capital Group Companies.  Mr. Kirsch served as an Adjunct Faculty member in real estate finance at Georgetown University School of Continuing Studies.  Mr. Kirsch graduated with a BA in Communication from Stanford University.

Show Notes

Introduction and Podcast Format

• Introduction of Bruce Kirsch and the podcast format, including a traditional interview followed by a case study and discussion of AI tools. (2:40)

Bruce Kirsch and REFM

• Bruce Kirsch’s current role as the founder of REFM (Real Estate Financial Modeling), his 17-year career helping others with financial modeling in Excel, and his various activities including consulting, training, coaching, and creating tools (5:45)

Early Life and Career Path

• Bruce Kirsch’s upbringing on Long Island and early influences from his father (a civil engineer) and mother (an interior designer), as well as his childhood fascination with the Manhattan skyline (8:30)
• Bruce Kirsch’s pursuit of a BA in Communication from Stanford University, his interest in visual arts and filmmaking, and his experience in the photography darkroom (12:50)
• The unexpected connection between his Stanford communication background and his current work in financial modeling, particularly in storytelling and visual communication (13:30)
• His experience taking a gap year between high school and college (14:45)
• His reasons for choosing Stanford, including the campus and the network (15:15)
• His career trajectory after Stanford: working in Hollywood and then in the mutual fund business (21:00)
• His experience during the tech bust while working in equity research (25:45)
• His decision to pursue an MBA at Wharton to gain a business education and his eventual focus on real estate after walks through Philadelphia (27:30)
• His relationship with Peter Linneman at Wharton and taking his real estate finance and investments course (29:05)
• His experience working for a developer in Washington DC during the red-hot condominium market of 2003 at Metropolis Development Company (30:50)
• Experiencing the downturn in the real estate market around 2007-2009 and being laid off (33:00)
• The role of desperation as a motivator in starting his business (35:00)

Financial Modeling Principles

• Discussion on the role of projections in real estate investment decisions despite their inherent uncertainty, using the analogy of a flight plan (39:20)
• Acknowledging that financial analyses rarely align perfectly with actual outcomes and questioning if Bruce has ever had a proforma come true (40:30)
• Addressing the impact of externalities like inflation, the S&L crisis, 9/11, the Global Financial Crisis, and COVID-19 on real estate projections (41:30)
• Strategies for compensating for unpredictable events and the importance of stress testing models and having a cushion (45:00)
• The difficulty of modeling black swan events (48:00)
• Advice for individuals aspiring to enter the field of real estate financial modeling (50:40)
• What excites Bruce Kirsch about financial analysis and the importance of understanding the real estate business and transaction mechanics (52:00)
• His collaboration with Peter Linneman on the textbook “Real Estate Finance and Investments”, which began through his teaching at Georgetown (53:00)
• “Valuate” software derivation (56:00)
• Bruce Kirsch’s observations over the past 17 years, emphasizing the balance between precision and practicality in financial modeling (58:40)
• Growth is painful (59:00)
• Company as small as it has been…just him now (1:01:00)
• Advice is to learn from mistakes and maintain humility (1:03:30)
• Spreadsheet starts out blank and is a tool. Always increase knowledge of real estate business and ask why conventions like “waterfalls” are there. (1:07:45)

AI in Real Estate

• Demonstration of Bruce Kirsch’s analytical model and discussion of AI tools he has experimented with, highlighting challenges with trustworthiness and current limitations (he shares a multifamily acquisition model online) (1:10:00)
• Discussion on prompting AI and its effectiveness in refining assumptions. AI is “oversold” as a reliable tool currently. (1:12:15)
• Bruce Kirsch’s dream scenario for AI’s application in his work, such as auditing spreadsheets and automating grunt work (1:14:30)
• Discussion about the potential for custom AI models tailored to specific expertise (1:20:00)
• The importance of data quality and internal data troves for effective AI implementation (1:27:30)
• Dream scenario for Bruce is AI doing an audit on spreadsheets and reporting back the errors from inspection (1:29:00)
• Insights from Bruce’s former interns on the most painful day-to-day tasks they’d like to offload to AI, such as pulling comps and market data (1:33:00)
• Exploring the potential of AI in collaborating on deal analysis and generating different scenarios for complex situations like restructurings and adaptive reuse (1:36:00)
• Analogy of AI tools to the Bloomberg terminal (1:38:50)
• Comparison of the current state of AI to the early days of the internet (1:39:30)
• Discussion about Khan Academy‘s AI tool, Khanmigo, and its domain-specific training for education. Salman Khan’s book is “Brave New Words” (1:40:30)
• Experiences of an Iconic Journey in CRE member (Chris Caylor) with ChatGPT and Otter.ai for automation and note-taking (1:43:00)
• Hypothetical case study on how AI could assist in multifamily deal analysis (1:47:20)
• Concerns about the potential for AI to homogenize deal underwriting (1:48:45)
• The role of AI in standardizing data formats and creating more digestible reports (1:49:45)
• Bruce Kirsch’s agreement on the potential of AI to improve clarity and liquidity in the real estate market (1:51:15)

REFM Opportunities

• Bruce discusses the services (REFI) format (see below for course information and a discount) (1:53:00)
• He built the model for The Wharf DC, a 2+ million s.f. mixed use project (110 tabs) (1:56:00)
• Questionnaire about mixed use properties (1:58:00)

Personal Reflections and Industry Perspective

• Bruce Kirsch’s overall perspective on the real estate industry, highlighting it as a tremendous and multidisciplinary opportunity and the paramount importance of reputation and trust (2:00:30)
• Bruce Kirsch’s message if he could put a sign on the Capitol Beltway: “Don’t take yourself too seriously” (2:04:30)

Courses

Bruce is offering his courses at a discount to podcast listeners. First, take a free assessment at this link: https://courses.getrefm.com/shop/free-tools/free-assessment-tests/. When you’ve determined your level, go to this website: https://courses.getrefm.com/ and use the discount code “Iconic” at the checkout to get a 15% discount for the course.

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Bio

Jeffrey Zell founded JM Zell Partners, Ltd in 1989, with a unique vision for providing client-centered real estate consulting. Developed over his 30-year career, Jeff’s innovative approach to delivering practical solutions while fostering meaningful client relationships forms the core of JM Zell’s value-added process.

Jeff believes that only by partnering with clients and truly understanding their business as well as their real estate needs can JM Zell provide long-range, comprehensive, unbiased advice. By evaluating factors including a client’s long-term needs, financial objectives, and corporate culture, JM Zell is able to provide customized, proactive and fiscally responsible solutions for major corporations, institutional investors, professional firms, unions, governmental institutions and not-for-profit organizations.

To fully realize his vision, Jeff attracted a diverse, multi-disciplinary staff of seasoned professionals who share in his philosophy (and in the profits of the company, based on client satisfaction and results). This collective approach ensures that everyone at JM Zell works for the common good, and that our client’s best interests are never compromised.

Jeff has provided strategic planning, investment, lease negotiation, development consulting and project management services for award-winning projects for over 25 years. Jeff’s greatest strengths are his creative strategic thinking, business acumen, transactional ability, marketing savvy and financial expertise. A member of the distinguished Counselors of Real Estate, available only to the most respected real estate specialists who are known for innovation and creative problem solving, Jeff is a licensed real estate broker in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia. 

Show Notes

Current Role and Origin Story

• Current Role Overview (5:00)
  • Jeff Zell shares his role as President and CEO of JM Zell Partners and his time allocation.
• Upbringing and Early Influences (00:05:37)
  • Jeff discusses his upbringing as a first-generation American and its impact on his career.
• Family Background (00:05:49)
  • He shares his parents’ history as Holocaust survivors and their immigration journey.
• Multilingual Childhood (00:06:06)
  • Jeff describes growing up in a multilingual household and the challenges it posed in school.
• Early Education Experience (00:08:01)
  • He recounts his initial struggles in elementary school due to language barriers.
• Father’s Influence and Business Start (00:10:07)
  • Jeff talks about his father’s successful woodworking business and his early involvement.
• Transition to Private School (00:10:20)
  • He explains his move to a private boarding school for better educational support.
• College Journey at Syracuse (00:11:00)
  • Jeff discusses his choice of Syracuse University amidst family expectations.
• Learning Style and Strengths (00:12:30)
  • He reflects on discovering his strengths in verbal skills over written documentation.
• Graduate School Experience (00:15:45)
  • Jeff shares his challenges in graduate school at GW and the lack of collaboration.

Career Beginning- Rubloff

• Entry into Real Estate Brokerage (00:17:00)
  • He explains his decision to enter the real estate brokerage field (David W. Kornblatt Co., subsequently acquired by Rubloff) influenced by his father.
• Early Career in Industrial Brokerage (00:18:45)
  • Jeff recounts starting as an industrial broker and his experiences in the field. Met Bill Janes on his first day
• Property Management Growth (00:19:45)
  • He discusses the growth of the property management company he was involved with with Equitable Life and Prudential Insurance as clients
• Establishing Rubloff’s Tenant Brokerage Services (00:23:00)
  • Jeff describes the launch of a tenant brokerage services group and its significance.
• The Logistics of Real Estate (00:23:40)
  • Discussion on the importance of understanding logistics in real estate operations with Federal Express as his client.
• Tenant Representation and Property Management (00:24:30)
  • Overview of tenant representation and the challenges of managing landlord-tenant conflicts.

JM Zell Partners

• Formation of JM Zell Partners (00:25:00)
  • Jeff shares how he transitioned from his previous company, Rubloff, to establish JM Zell Partners.
• Surviving the Early 90s Market Collapse (00:26:00)
  • Strategies Jeff employed to navigate the real estate downturn through consultancy services.
• Consultative Services Approach (00:27:10)
  • Focus on providing tailored consulting services to clients facing real estate challenges.
• Nonprofits Became Largest Client Sector (30:00)
  • The sector had capital and needed real estate advisory services
• Client-Centric Business Model (00:33:15)
  • Jeff explains the core principle of prioritizing client needs over brokerage commissions.
• Building a National Business (00:37:00)
  • Insights into how Jeff expanded his firm’s reputation beyond Washington, D.C.
• Challenges of Innovative Business Models (00:39:30)
  • Jeff discusses initial hurdles in getting clients to pay for consulting services.
• Integrating Client Needs into Solutions (00:41:30)
  • Importance of aligning real estate solutions with clients’ long-term objectives and corporate culture.

Significant Transactions

• Sanofi $2.3 Billion transaction (42:00)
  • Cambridge, MA Build to Suit deal he procured.
• Norfolk Southern and Carlyle Site Deal (00:44:00)
  • Discussion about representing Norfolk Southern and the complexities of a significant land deal.
• Bill Hard
  • Mention of Bill Hard’s involvement in previous deals (USPTO) and his retirement.
• $2.3 Billion Deal Insights (00:44:30)
  • Insights on how a massive deal was accomplished outside of Washington.
• Sanofi’s Rebate Strategy (00:46:30)
  • Discussion on the financial benefits and rebate strategies with Sanofi over the years.
• Client Relationships and Trust (00:44:12)
  • Reflections on building long-term relationships with clients and the importance of trust.
• Meridian’s Complex Deals (00:47:30)
  • Exploration of the complexities involved in deals with Meridian and SAIC.
• TTC Building Sale Success (00:50:00)
  • Success story about selling the TTC building at a significantly higher price.
• Bid Strategy Differences (00:52:20)
  • Explanation of the unique bidding strategy that differentiates their approach from competitors.
• Fannie Mae Deal Challenges (00:52:45)
  • Challenges faced during the bidding process for a Fannie Mae deal.

Pandemic Impact & Recent Federal Government Actions

• Post-Pandemic Client Needs (00:59:45)
  • Discussion on how the pandemic has altered clients’ real estate needs, especially in DC.
• Law Firms and Market Changes (01:00:30)
  • Insight into the shrinking size of law firms and their changing needs.
• Future of Office Spaces (01:02:30)
  • Predictions on the transformation of office spaces and the rise of non-profit organizations.
• Current Challenges in Government (01:03:50)
  • Discussion on the cascading effects of government actions and potential job losses impacting the community.
• Control Board in D.C. (01:04:40)
  • Concerns about the future of D.C. governance and the possibility of a control board taking over.
• Zoning Issues (01:05:30)
  • Challenges with zoning changes and lengthy appeal processes affecting development projects.

Market Implications

• Impact of Remote Work (01:06:30)
  • Advising clients on office space optimization amidst the rise of hybrid and remote work models.
• Technology in Real Estate (01:07:00)
  • How clients leverage technology for efficient real estate operations and portfolio management.
• Conference Room Dynamics (01:08:00)
  • The evolving role of conference rooms in office settings and personal negotiation preferences.
• Adaptive Reuse of Properties (01:10:45)
  • Challenges and opportunities in repurposing office buildings for different uses.
• Value of Parking Garages (01:11:30)
  • Discussion on the rising value of parking garages in urban real estate markets.
• Future of Office Space (01:15:45)
  • Exploration of the potential transformation of old federal office spaces into mixed-use developments.
• Challenges in Mixed-Use Developments (01:17:00)
  • Impact of high interest rates on the success of mixed-use projects in Washington D.C, particularly The Wharf.
• Debt Market Concerns (01:20:00)
  • Concerns about new debt products and their potential impact on the real estate market.
• Public-Private Partnerships (01:21:00)
  • Discussion on the future of public-private partnerships in D.C. and current project challenges.

Business Philosophies

• Significant Contributions to Real Estate Consulting (01:21:40)
  • Highlighting the evolution of real estate consulting services and successful project execution strategies.
• Outsourcing and Collaboration (01:20:59)
  • Jeff discusses the importance of collaboration and aligning interests when working with corporations.
• Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs (01:24:00)
  • Jeff advises professionals to be well-rounded and understand all aspects of real estate.
• Understanding Real Estate Dynamics (01:24:30)
  • He emphasizes the significance of understanding various real estate functions, including debt and property maintenance.
• In-House Legal Support (01:26:00)
  • Jeff explains the necessity of having internal legal expertise to manage complex documentation.
• Flexibility in Leasing (01:27:45)
  • He shares strategies for creating flexible leasing agreements to accommodate changing business needs.

Personal Priorities

• Transitioning Leadership (01:29:30)
  • Jeff reveals plans to hand over his company to his son and his ongoing involvement.
• Life Priorities (01:30:30)
  • He discusses the balance between family, work, and charitable giving in his life.
• Reflections on Washington D.C. (01:30:39)
  • Jeff expresses his love for Washington D.C. and its cultural richness, highlighting its unique qualities.

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Bio

Jessie C. Barter founded Charger Ventures (“Charger”), a multifamily investment management platform in the fall of 2018, and Spark Living, the portfolio’s brand, in the fall of 2020. Through Q125, Charger has acquired ~3,000 apartments ($730m AUM) in MA, MD, VA, WV, and CT. Prior to Charger, Jessie was a Managing Director – Acquisitions with Mill Creek Residential Trust and Senior Director of Investments at AvalonBay Communities.

Ms. Barter is a director on the National Board for the non-profit Entryways (fka Shelters for Shutters). In 2022, Charger Ventures was drafted into National Multi-Housing Council’s (NMHC) inaugural Summit Advisory Committee’s Program for emerging managers. She is Vice Chair of the Membership Engagement Committee, member of the Finance Committee, and past Vice Chair of NMHC’s Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity Committee. Ms. Barter is a member of ULI’s Multi-Family Council Blue flight and the Young President’s Organization (YPO).

Ms. Barter holds a Masters of Business Administration from Darden Graduate School of Business Administration at the University of Virginia and a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration from Georgetown University. She lives in Bethesda, MD.

Show Notes

Introduction and Current Role

• Introduction (00:03:00)
  • John Coe overviews the interview with Jessie
• Welcome (00:04:30)
  • Introduction of Jessie Barter and her role in Charger Ventures.
• Current Role at Charger Ventures (00:04:50)
  • Jessie discusses her focus on deal flow and equity partnerships.
• Daily Operations (00:05:10)
  • Description of Jessie’s typical day, emphasizing sourcing deals and equity.
• Asset Management Oversight (00:05:20)
  • Jessie mentions her involvement in asset management alongside a strong partner.
• Differentiating Approach in a Competitive Market (00:05:50)
  • Jessie explains their off-market sourcing strategy and rigorous asset management.

Origins, Education and First Job

• Origin Story (00:07:30)
  • Jessie shares her background growing up in Montgomery County, MD.
• Family Influence on Career Choices (00:08:00)
  • Discussion on her family’s encouragement to pursue real estate over medicine.
• Lessons from Parents (00:08:50)
  • Jessie reflects on adaptability and attention to detail learned from her parents.
• Father’s MBA Journey (00:09:00)
  • Insight into her father’s decision to pursue an MBA while practicing medicine.
• Mother’s Influence (00:10:40)
  • Jessie describes her mother’s strong attention to detail and its impact on her.
• College Experience at Georgetown (00:11:21)
  • Jessie recounts her time at Georgetown and her non-athletic college life.
• Nickname and Company Name (00:12:10)
  • Discussion of how Jessie’s nickname “Charger” inspired the name of her company.
• Post-College Plans (00:13:00)
  • Jessie shares her desire to leave DC and her early career decisions.
• First Job at Bear Stearns (00:14:15)
  • Jessie discusses accepting a job in equity research at Bear Stearns.
• Bear Stearns Experience (00:15:00)
  • Reflections on the work environment and lessons learned during her time there.
• Transition to Business School (00:17:30)
  • Jessie explains her decision to pursue an MBA after working at Bear Stearns.
• Choosing Darden (00:17:45)
  • Reasons behind her choice of Darden for business school.
• Real Estate Focus at Darden (00:19:00)
  • Jessie mentions taking real estate classes that sparked her interest in the field.

Entering the Real Estate Business- Thackeray Partners

• Joining a Real Estate Private Equity Fund (00:19:40)
  • Discussion on her job at a private equity fund (Thackeray Partners) in Dallas focusing on real estate.
• Experience in Dallas (00:20:00)
  • Jessie reflects on the exposure and learning opportunities in her Dallas role.
• Focus on Multifamily Real Estate (00:21:00)
  • Jessie explains her preference for multifamily investments over other asset classes.

Avalon Bay and Mill Creek

• Moving Back for Avalon Bay (00:22:50)
  • Jessie shares her transition back to the DC area to work with Avalon Bay.
• Public REIT Experience (00:23:40)
  • Discussion on the differences between private equity and working at a public REIT.
• Shift to Mill Creek (00:24:40)
  • Jessie explains her reasons for leaving Avalon Bay and joining Mill Creek.
• Learning Deal Structures (25:00)
  • Jessie discusses her experience at Mill Creek, learning various deal structures and capitalizing strategies.
• Experience with Lili Dunn (25:30)
  • Jessie reflects on her time at Avalon Bay and her relationship with Lili Dunn, a key figure during her tenure.
• Collaboration with Sean Caldwell (26:20)
  • She shares her experience working with Sean Caldwell on a unique development project in Columbia Pike.
• Common Themes in Firms (27:40)
  • Jessie identifies integrity and partnership as common themes across her experiences in different real estate firms.

Entrepreneurial Start

• Ethos in Charger Ventures (29:30)
  • She emphasizes the importance of authenticity and transparency in her company’s operations and partnerships.
• Decision to Start Charger Ventures (30:30)
  • Jessie explains the pivotal moments and experiences that led her to establish her own company.
• First Deal After Resigning (33:00)
  • She discusses how quickly she found a deal after resigning, highlighting the importance of prior relationships.
• Networking and Business Plan (33:30)
  • Jessie recounts her initial meeting with a family office, which led to a significant partnership opportunity.
• First Deal in Lexington Park (36:30)
  • She describes the characteristics of her first deal, located in a market influenced heavily by the military.

Strategy and Focus

• Investment Philosophy and Approach (39:15)
  • Jessie outlines Charger Ventures’ investment strategy, focusing on higher-yielding assets across various vintages.
• Current Portfolio Focus (42:30)
  • She explains the demographics and characteristics of their current portfolio, emphasizing naturally affordable housing.
• Climate Resilience Strategy (43:50)
  • Jessie discusses the importance of climate resilience in their investment approach and portfolio locations.
• Understanding Market Trends (00:45:00)
  • Discussion on real estate trends in college towns with stable rents and limited new supply.
• Challenges in Growth (00:46:00)
  • Barter reflects on the difficulties faced in the last two years due to capital market fluctuations.
• Impact of COVID-19 (00:46:30)
  • Insights on how COVID-19 affected operations and led to unexpected benefits in rental markets.
• Rewards of Real Estate (00:46:45)
  • Barter shares the fulfillment she finds in her daily work and successes at Charger Ventures.
• Finding Equity Partners (00:47:00)
  • The importance of securing equity partners in navigating the real estate landscape.
• Differentiation Strategies (00:47:30)
  • Discussion on the importance of fixed-rate debt and disciplined acquisition strategies.
• Off-Market Strategy (00:48:00)
  • Barter explains the shift to off-market deals for efficiency and reduced competition.
• Avoiding Auction Situations (00:49:15)
  • The decision to refrain from auction bidding to maintain acquisition discipline.
• Cost of Capital Insights (00:50:15)
  • A personal anecdote about high internal rate returns at Koch Industries.

Branding and Differentiation

• Evolution of Charger Ventures (00:52:00)
  • Barter discusses the decision to create a brand for operational efficiency.
• Introducing Spark Living (00:52:10)
  • The launch of the Spark Living brand to standardize and enhance resident experiences.
• Branding and Efficiency (00:53:15)
  • How the brand aims to improve stakeholder experiences and operational efficiency.
• Brand Standards and Property Management (00:55:00)
  • Discussion on maintaining brand standards through various property management partners.
• Reexamination of Brand Strength (00:56:00)
  • Plans to assess the brand’s health and gather feedback from stakeholders.
• Engaging Property Managers (00:56:45)
  • Strategies for involving property managers in brand development and operational excellence.
• Differentiating Resident Experience (00:58:00)
  • How Spark Living aims to create a unique resident experience compared to larger brands.
• Collaboration for Innovation (01:02:00)
  • Emphasis on inclusivity and idea sharing within the team for continuous improvement.

Development and Future

• Joint Venture with Lauren Jezienicki (01:04:00)
  • Barter discusses a joint venture project in Massachusetts and its significance.
• Development Deal Insights (01:05:15)
  • Overview of the first development deal and plans for the existing property.
• Market Evolution and Challenges (01:06:45)
  • Discussion on how the multifamily investment market has evolved post-pandemic and the impact of increased competition.
• Evaluating Current Assets (01:07:50)
  • Insights into asset evaluations amid rising interest rates and construction costs, maintaining high occupancy rates.
• Addressing Affordable Housing (01:10:15)
  • Exploration of how Charger Ventures addresses affordability issues in urban markets through strategic rental practices.
• New Opportunities on the Horizon (01:11:20)
  • Discussion on potential new development opportunities and partnerships for future growth in the real estate sector.
• Innovative Financing Strategies (01:13:15)
  • Overview of financing strategies used by Charger Ventures, focusing on agency borrowing and avoiding additional leverage.
• Partnerships and Collaborations (01:14:00)
  • Importance of financial partnerships and collaborations in the success of Charger Ventures, highlighting key partners.
• Aggregation Strategies Consideration (01:15:00)
  • Exploration of potential aggregation strategies and the importance of maintaining separate deals for flexibility.
• Development Opportunities (01:17:30)
  • Discussion on the cautious approach towards future development opportunities and the need for strategic partnerships.

Personal Development and Philosophy

• Pivotal Career Moments (01:19:00)
  • Reflection on significant career moves and decisions that influenced the development of Charger Ventures.
• Inclusive Leadership Approach (01:20:15)
  • The importance of inclusivity in leadership and its impact on generating better returns in the business.
• Balancing Professional and Personal Life (01:22:00)
  • Insights on maintaining balance between running a firm and personal life, emphasizing self-care.
• Measuring Success (01:23:00)
  • Discussion on personal fulfillment and the importance of aligning company values with investor interests.
• Advice to Younger Self (01:24:45)
  • Reflections on personal growth and the importance of reconnecting with oneself throughout one’s career.
• Influential Mentors (01:26:00)
  • The role of mentors in shaping leadership approaches and providing guidance throughout professional challenges.
• Final Thoughts on Action (01:27:30)
  • Encouragement to take action and pursue goals, emphasizing the importance of starting now.
• The Future of Charger Ventures (01:27:08)
  • Jessie discusses the upcoming challenges and opportunities for Charger Ventures in the coming year.

Gratitude

• Invitation to the Podcast (01:28:00)
  • The host asks Jessie why she requested to be on the podcast, prompting a discussion about its content.
• Admiration for the Podcast (01:28:30)
  • Jessie expresses her admiration for the podcast’s content and its featured leaders in the real estate sector.

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Bio

Blake Potolicchio, Co-Chief Investment Officer

More than a dozen years of experience in real estate acquisitions, dispositions, financing, asset management, and leasing. Prior to Open Industrial Blake spent 15 years spearheading a local private equity real estate fund’s strategic direction focused on acquisitions, entitlement, leasing and asset management.

Show Notes

• Introduction and Welcome (00:04:30)
  • Blake is welcomed to the show and expresses gratitude for the invitation.
• Blake’s Role and Responsibilities (00:04:40)
  • Blake describes his role as co-chief investment officer at Open Industrial.
• Investment Strategy Overview (00:04:50)
  • Discussion on acquiring heavy industrial zoned land for outdoor storage and its significance.
• Average Deal Size (00:05:15)
  • Blake shares insights on the average deal size and the strategy of high volume, small check sizes.
• Impact of COVID-19 (00:05:50)
  • The importance of their tenants during COVID-19 and the supply chain disruptions experienced.
• Challenges in Finding Suitable Sites (00:06:15)
  • Blake discusses the difficulties in finding sites that meet zoning and user requirements.
• Motivation Behind Founding Open Industrial (00:06:45)
  • Personal motivations and the market conditions that led to the establishment of Open Industrial.
• Identifying Market Opportunities (00:07:30)
  • Blake explains how zoning and limited availability create market opportunities for outdoor storage.
• Economic Viability and Investment Perspective (00:08:15)
  • Discussion on the economic aspects and long-term viability of their investment strategy.
• Acquisition Strategy and Market Focus (00:10:30)
  • Blake outlines the geographic focus and strategy of the acquisitions team at Open Industrial.
• Background and Education (00:11:15)
  • Blake shares his upbringing, education, and the importance of learning in his early years.
• Family Background (00:12:00)
  • Details about Blake’s family, including his mother’s real estate career and father’s medical profession.
• College Experience (00:12:15)
  • Blake discusses his college experience at the College of the Holy Cross and his athletic involvement.
• Career Aspirations Post-College (00:14:00)
  • Blake reflects on his uncertainty about career paths after college and his initial interest in medicine.
• Internship Experience (00:15:30)
  • Blake describes his internship at JLL and the various aspects of real estate he explored.
• Interest in Real Estate (00:16:15)
  • Discussion on what sparked Blake’s interest in the real estate industry.
• Early Career at Rock Creek Property Group (00:17:45)
  • Blake explains his entry into Rock Creek Property Group and his initial roles.
• Learning from Tenant Representation (00:18:00)
  • Insights on the importance of understanding tenant needs from his experience in tenant representation.
• Market Analysis and Reporting (00:20:00)
  • Blake discusses his experience with market data analysis and reporting during his early career.
• Starting as a Deal Analyst (00:20:30)
  • Blake explains his transition to sourcing deals and the focus on value during the GFC.
• Challenges in Deal-Making (00:22:00)
  • Blake reflects on the complexities and unique challenges of real estate deals he encountered.
• Embassy Deals and Unique Experiences (00:22:30)
  • Discussion on the unique nature of embassy deals and the intricacies involved.
• Length of Tenure at Rock Creek (00:24:45)
  • Blake summarizes his 13 years at Rock Creek and the evolution of the firm during that time.
• Opportunistic Deals Strategy (00:25:30)
  • Discussion on starting with opportunistic middle market deals, avoiding larger firms.
• Diverse Product Types (00:26:00)
  • Insights on the benefits of investing in multiple product types for broader perspectives.
• Geographical Focus (00:26:15)
  • Blake explains the importance of focusing on the Washington DC metro area for investments.
• Portfolio Growth at Rock Creek (00:27:00)
  • Overview of the portfolio size and diversity of deals during Blake’s tenure at Rock Creek.
• Fund Management Experience (00:27:30)
  • Blake reflects on his involvement in fund management and the challenges of fundraising.
• Investor Relations Importance (00:28:00)
  • The necessity of strong investor relations for business success in real estate.
• Family Office vs. Limited Partnerships (00:28:30)
  • Comparison of family office structures to limited partnerships in real estate investments.
• Initial Strategy and Fund Formation (00:29:30)
  • Blake discusses the initial strategy and the decision to create a fund for efficiency.
• Education on Financing (00:30:30)
  • Ongoing education efforts regarding financing structures for their investment strategy.
• Lease Duration and Market Dynamics (00:32:00)
  • Impact of market conditions on lease terms and the need for longer leases.
• Data Transparency in Outdoor Storage (00:34:30)
  • Importance of accurate data for institutionalizing the outdoor storage market.
• Proprietary Software Development (00:34:50)
  • Introduction of a proprietary software tool to aggregate data for acquisitions.
• Understanding Tenant Costs (00:36:45)
  • Blake explains reverse engineering tenant costs to determine feasible rent structures.
• Creating Value for Tenants (00:39:30)
  • Strategies for providing value to tenants and minimizing business interruptions.
• Market Consolidation Trends (00:41:15)
  • Observation of tenant growth and consolidation trends in the outdoor storage sector.
• Integration of Technology in Operations (00:42:23)
  • Discussion on how technology enhances operations and decision-making processes at Open Industrial.
• Company Structure and Growth (00:44:45)
  • Blake discusses the team composition at Open Industrial and the focus on acquisitions.
• Office Locations and Expansion (00:46:30)
  • The conversation shifts to Open Industrial’s office locations and plans for expansion.
• Market Analysis for Outdoor Industrial (00:47:30)
  • Blake explains why Las Vegas is targeted over other major cities based on market analysis.
• Displacement Characteristics in Northern Virginia (00:48:30)
  • Discussion on the impact of data centers displacing tenants in Northern Virginia’s outdoor industrial market.
• Opportunities with Data Centers (00:50:15)
  • Blake explores potential partnerships with data center businesses for outdoor storage needs.
• Challenges in Northern Virginia (00:51:00)
  • The conversation addresses rising land costs due to competition from data center developers.
• Interim Uses for Sites (00:51:30)
  • Blake suggests interim uses for land to address power access issues and site management.
• Peripheral Land Value in Malls (00:52:00)
  • Discussion on the profitability of peripheral land versus main retail spaces in regional malls.
• Interaction with Gross Industrial Market (00:53:45)
  • Blake talks about the significance of ports in the outdoor storage market.
• Impact of Container Business (00:54:15)
  • The discussion highlights how containerization has transformed logistics and storage needs.
• Macroeconomic Factors Affecting Demand (00:54:45)
  • Blake explains how tariffs and port developments influence the industrial real estate market.
• Lease Leaseback Business Concept (00:56:30)
  • The idea of leasing land from companies for temporary storage solutions is introduced.
• Zoning Complications in Development (00:57:30)
  • Challenges related to zoning and environmental impact for potential projects are discussed.
• Temporary Uses for Underutilized Land (00:58:30)
  • Exploring how temporarily utilizing vacant land can generate revenue and community value.
• Opportunities Around Military Bases (01:01:00)
  • Blake shares insights on the potential for outdoor storage near military installations.
• Challenges in Industrial Real Estate (01:02:45)
  • Blake outlines the educational challenges in the industrial real estate sector.
• Comparison to Self Storage Market (01:04:15)
  • Discussion on how the outdoor storage niche could evolve similarly to the self-storage market.
• User Market and Tenant Relationships (01:05:00)
  • Blake explains the importance of tenant relationships in finding suitable sites.
• Institutionalization of the Business (01:06:45)
  • The conversation emphasizes the need for public relations to promote Open Industrial’s services.
• Market Size and Tenant Insights (01:07:15)
  • Blake discusses the vast market for trucking franchises and equipment rentals, estimating its size between $200 to $300 billion.
• Franchise Fairs and Brand Awareness (01:08:15)
  • The conversation shifts to the importance of attending franchise fairs for building brand awareness and attracting users.
• Impacts of Tariffs on Supply Chains (01:09:15)
  • Discussion on potential tariffs’ effects on supply chains and how Open Industrial may navigate these challenges.
• Reshoring and Labor Concerns (01:10:15)
  • Blake highlights the trend of reshoring manufacturing and the associated labor shortages impacting the industry.
• Silver Tsunami in Industry Succession (01:11:10)
  • The conversation touches on the aging workforce and its implications for business succession in blue-collar industries.
• Market Focus Amid Tariff Discussions (01:11:06)
  • Blake explains Open Industrial’s strategy of focusing on long-term markets despite tariff uncertainties.
• Manufacturing and Tariff Implications (01:13:00)
  • Discussion on the potential penalties for companies that offshored manufacturing and the challenges of bringing it back.
• Capital Markets and Financing Strategies (01:14:30)
  • Exploration of Open Industrial’s innovative financing strategies and relationships with regional banks for portfolio growth.
• Volatility and Tenant Management (01:15:30)
  • Blake addresses the volatility of tenants and the minimal carry costs associated with their real estate investments.
• Scaling and Institutional Relationships (01:17:00)
  • Discussion on the importance of scale and institutional relationships in enhancing Open Industrial’s growth strategy.
• AI and Operational Efficiency (01:19:40)
  • The potential of AI to streamline operations and improve efficiency in managing their real estate portfolio is explored.
• Fragmented Outdoor Storage Market (01:20:45)
  • Blake reflects on the fragmented outdoor storage market and the need for strategic portfolio organization.
• Exit Strategy Considerations (01:23:00)
  • Discussion on the strategic question of exit strategies and whether to focus regionally or universally.
• Land Use as a Key Focus (01:26:00)
  • Blake emphasizes the importance of land use and zoning in driving Open Industrial’s investment decisions.
• Career Reflections and Learning from Crises (01:27:15)
  • Blake reflects on pivotal moments in his career, particularly learning from the Global Financial Crisis (GFC).
• The Evolution of Financing (01:29:15)
  • Discussion on the historical challenges of financing real estate in the early 1990s.
• Market Dynamics and Opportunities (01:31:30)
  • Insights on current market conditions and potential investment opportunities in distressed properties.
• Open Industrial’s Aspirations (01:32:15)
  • Blake shares the company’s goal to be a leading operator in outdoor storage.
• Core Values and Company Culture (01:32:34)
  • Hungry to Learn
  • Grit
  • Always to the Right Thing
  • Brutal Honesty
• Networking Strategies (01:35:45)
  • Advice on effective networking through active listening and meaningful connections.
• Negotiation Techniques (01:37:00)
  • Exploration of negotiation strategies, including the importance of silence and timing.
• Influential Mentorship (01:41:45)
  • Blake reflects on a mentor’s impact on his approach to leadership and attention to detail.
• Balancing Work and Community Involvement (01:44:15)
  • Blake discusses his family’s commitment to community service and philanthropic activities.
• Advice for Future Generations (01:47:45)
  • Blake emphasizes the importance of being bold and taking risks in life and business. “Be Bold”

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**Announcement**

Exciting News: A New Chapter for Iconic Journey in CRE!

We’re thrilled to announce the upcoming launch of the new website for Iconic Journey in CRE! This marks a major step forward in expanding our mission to support and connect professionals across the commercial real estate industry.

Here’s what this means for you:

• Students & Industry Newcomers – Looking to build your network and gain valuable insights? Join the Iconic Journey in CRE community to connect with peers and industry leaders.
• Early & Mid-Career Professionals in Transition – Our Career Coaching Curriculum offers personalized guidance to help you navigate career shifts and reach your next level.
• Experienced Leaders & Industry Veterans – If you’ve benefited from a career in commercial real estate, consider sponsoring or donating to help mentor and support the next generation of CRE professionals.

And for everyone, the best way to stay engaged is by subscribing to the Icons of DC Area Real Estate podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform. We’ve been delivering in-depth interviews with industry leaders since 2019, and with this new website, we’re taking things to the next level.

Stay tuned—the new site is launching soon! To learn more about how you can get involved, visit www.ijcre.org.

Thank you for being part of this journey!

Bio

This is a two part biography as Bruce Pascal has developed both a thriving commercial real estate brokerage practice and a healthy career as a Hot Wheels collector and curator.

Overview

INNOVATOR | REAL ESTATE | ENTREPRENEUR
 
Seasoned and award-winning executive with a proven track record spanning more than three decades,
known for overcoming challenges and driving success in diverse projects. A visionary leader and
influential figure in the real estate industry. Possesses a remarkable history of international diplomacy,
through human rights advocacy in personal interaction with two popes, Middle Eastern leaders, and the
intermediary work in Alan Gross’s Cuba prisoner release. A multifaceted individual, and master of the art
of negotiation.
Beyond professional achievements, owns the most complete historical collection of Hot Wheels globally,
a testament to an unwavering passion for collecting. As a dedicated judge for Mattel’s Legend’s tour and
owner of the world’s only Hot Wheels Museum, brings a unique perspective that aligns with Mattel’s
ethos and strategic direction.
 
SKILLS
 
Real Estate | Community Impact | Strategic Vision | Unique Perspectives
Voice for Collectors | Critical Thinking | Analytical | Strategic Problem Solving | Leadership |
Entrepreneurship | International Diplomacy| Community Impact | Mentoring | Dynamic Marketing |
Global Collector Network | Strategic Planning & Execution | Strong Communication | Negotiation |
Business Transformation

Detailed Real Estate Career

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
 
Executive Managing Director (2017 to Present) | Cushman Wakefield
A leading global real estate service firm with 50K employees in over 400 offices and 60 countries.
 

• Ranked among the top 10 agents in Washington D.C. for 2 of the past 7 years, out of a pool of 750
  agents, demonstrating exceptional performance in a highly competitive market.
• Recognized as one of the most awarded agents in DC history, reflecting the outstanding contributions
  to the real estate industry over the past 35 years.
• Represented 168 out of DC’s 765 office buildings over 35-year career, a testament to the unmatched
  success rate in the region.
   
  Senior Vice President of Leasing (2014 to 2017) | Vornado Realty Trust
  A preeminent owner, manager, and developer of office and retail assets.
   
• Transformed Crystal City, VA, a region with a 21% office vacancy rate into a remarkable under 11%
  vacancy rate.
• Paved the way for the sale of the entire portfolio through JBG Real Estate, ultimately attracting
  Amazon as a major tenant.
• Revitalized the entire city’s image, turning it from a drab locale to a vibrant hub with modern office
  spaces and new attractions.
   
  Executive Vice President (1989 to 2014) | CBRE Group, Inc.
  The largest commercial real estate firm in the world.
   
• Established as one of the top agents in Washington, D.C., known for exceptional drive and
  entrepreneurial spirit, focusing on leasing some of the city’s toughest buildings, often older or with
  unique challenges.
• Introduced the “grab and go” cutting-edge marketing concept in the 1990s, enabling brokers to attend
  an event to view available spaces while enjoying a free lunch and a generous gift.
   
  CHARITABLE AFFILIATIONS
   
• B’nai B’rith International, Past International Senior Vice President
• Rachael’s Women’s Center, Inc., Past Chairman
• New Leadership State of Israel Bonds, Past Chairman
   
  EDUCATION
   
  Bachelor of Business Administration (BBA) Degree, Finance, George Washington University
   
  AWARDS & HONORS
   
• Five-Time Top Ten Leasing Agent Award, CREBA

Show Notes

High Level Overview

• Introduction (5:45)
  • Bruce Pascal is welcomed to the podcast, discussing his dual passions.
• Balancing Work and Passion (00:06:00)
  • Bruce shares how he prioritizes work while integrating his hobby of Hot Wheels collecting.
• Trends in the DC Office Market (00:06:45)
  • Bruce discusses challenges in the DC office market and the importance of innovation.
• Innovative Marketing Strategies (00:09:00)
  • Bruce emphasizes the need for innovative marketing to stand out in real estate.
• Challenges of Door-to-Door Canvassing (00:09:42)
  • Bruce explains the difficulties of traditional canvassing in today’s market.

Origins and First Business

• Defining Moments in Upbringing (00:11:15)
  • Bruce reflects on his childhood and defining moments that shaped his ambition.
• Early Work Experiences (00:12:15)
  • Bruce describes his early jobs and entrepreneurial spirit during high school.
• Transition to Process Serving (00:13:00)
  • Bruce shares how he started a successful process serving business in college.
• Skills from Process Serving to Real Estate (00:14:45)
  • He discusses how his process serving experience translated into real estate skills.

Real Estate Career Begins

• Joining a Real Estate Firm (00:16:40)
  • Bruce recounts how he got his start in real estate after college.
• Lunch with Bob Cohen (00:17:00)
  • Bruce shares a memorable lunch with Bob Cohen, learning about real estate success.

Passion for Hot Wheels

• Passion for Hot Wheels (00:18:15)
  • Bruce reveals his childhood love for cars and how it led to collecting Hot Wheels.
• Beginning of Hot Wheels Collection (00:19:20)
  • Bruce discusses rediscovering his childhood Hot Wheels and starting to collect seriously.
• Building a Database of Hot Wheels Contacts (00:21:15)
  • He explains how he networked with former Mattel employees to grow his collection.
• The Henry Ford Museum of Hot Wheels (00:22:30)
  • Bruce likens his collection to a museum dedicated to Hot Wheels history.
• Acquiring the Rare Pink Beach Bomb (00:23:40)
  • Bruce narrates the story behind acquiring the legendary pink rear-loading beach bomb.

Sales Talent and Brokerage

• Foreshadowing Sales Talent (00:25:05)
  • Bruce reflects on early signs of his sales and negotiation skills.
• Practice Interviews and Sales Skills (00:25:20)
  • Bruce discusses conducting practice interviews and the importance of innate sales skills over trainable skills.
• Early Sales Experiences (00:25:45)
  • He shares personal anecdotes about early sales experiences, including selling lemonade and Girl Scout cookies.
• Introduction to Real Estate (00:27:15)
  • Bruce recounts how he ventured into real estate after selling his process serving company and renting to artists.
• First Real Estate Deal (00:30:25)
  • He describes his first significant deal involving a fire-damaged Burger King and the lessons learned from it.
• Market Dynamics and Learning (00:33:15)
  • Bruce explains how the landlord side of brokerage helps develop essential skills and understand market dynamics.

Current Market

• Current State of DC Office Market (00:35:30)
  • He describes the bifurcated state of the office market in DC, highlighting vacancy rates and building types.
• Changes in Tenant Behavior (00:38:30)
  • Bruce discusses how tenant behavior has changed post-pandemic and the challenges landlords face.
• Challenges for Landlords (00:42:20)
  • He outlines the financial health challenges landlords face and potential strategies for dealing with current market conditions.
• Opportunities for Long-Term Investors (00:43:50)
  • Bruce suggests that current market conditions may present opportunities for long-term investors willing to be patient.
• Best Buy of Any Transaction (00:45:15)
  • Bruce discusses a significant lease deal involving the Wizards and its positive impact on surrounding retail.
• Current Market Dynamics (00:46:15)
  • The conversation shifts to historical context regarding office buildings and the current market landscape.
• CMBS Loan Challenges (00:46:30)
  • Bruce explains complications with CMBS loans and how defaults can lead to better negotiation opportunities.
• Current Administration’s Impact (00:48:30)
  • Discussion on how upcoming administration policies may influence federal leasing and office vacancy rates.
• Potential for Urban Redevelopment (00:50:20)
  • Exploration of opportunities for redeveloping urban areas in D.C. to enhance commercial real estate.
• Historic Urban Redevelopment (00:51:00)
  • Bruce reflects on his father’s experiences in early urban redevelopment in Southwest D.C.
• Federal Government Property Sales (00:51:50)
  • The potential for federal properties to be sold as surplus, impacting urban landscapes.
• Effects of Policy Changes (00:52:10)
  • Bruce predicts long-term changes to D.C.’s real estate market resulting from policy shifts.

Hot Wheels Perspective

• Balancing Real Estate and Hot Wheels (00:52:20)
  • Bruce shares how his passion for collecting Hot Wheels complements his real estate career.
• Hot Wheels Market Overview (00:54:25)
  • Discussion on the enduring popularity and sales performance of Hot Wheels since 1968.
• Generosity of Hot Wheels (00:55:35)
  • Bruce describes his practice of giving Hot Wheels to children, fostering excitement for cars.
• Collecting Beyond Hot Wheels (00:56:20)
  • Exploration of other collectibles and how they compare to Hot Wheels in the market.
• Collector Mindset in Real Estate (00:57:20)
  • Bruce discusses how his collector mindset aids in identifying real estate opportunities.
• Unique LinkedIn Branding (00:57:50)
  • Bruce highlights how combining his profession with his hobby sets him apart in real estate.

Career Pivot- Vornado Realty Trust

• Pivotal Career Transactions (00:59:30)
  • Bruce reflects on his career, particularly his work with Vornado Realty Trust in Crystal City.
• Design Lab Concept (01:01:30)
  • Bruce shares his innovative idea for redesigning office spaces in Crystal City to attract tenants.
• Iconic Ferris Wheel Proposal (01:04:40)
  • Bruce recounts his ambitious plan for a Ferris wheel in Crystal City that ultimately did not materialize.
• The Arena Discussion (01:07:10)
  • Bruce shares his thoughts on the potential development of an arena in D.C. and its implications.
• JBG Smith and Amazon (01:07:15)
  • Discussion on JBG Smith’s developments and Amazon’s impact on Crystal City’s future skyline.
• Retail Development in Crystal City (01:07:50)
  • The conversation shifts to retail developments and the contributions of Henry Fonvielle and Bob Smith.
• Accessibility to the Airport (01:08:35)
  • Bruce emphasizes the unique walkability of properties near the airport in Virginia.
• Pedestrian Walkway Development (01:09:00)
  • Updates on pedestrian walkways being facilitated by Arlington County for better accessibility.

Adaptability and Innovation

• Staying Adaptable in Real Estate (01:09:20)
  • Bruce discusses the importance of innovation and adaptability in the evolving real estate market.
• Introduction of Grab and Go (01:10:00)
  • Bruce recounts his innovation of the “grab and go” concept in the early 90s.
• Innovative Luncheons for Brokers (01:10:45)
  • Bruce explains how he transformed broker luncheons to create a more engaging experience.
• Importance of Personal Relationships (01:12:20)
  • Bruce stresses the significance of personal relationships in securing real estate opportunities.
• Technological Shifts in Brokerage (01:10:01)
  • Bruce reflects on the early technological changes in the real estate brokerage industry.
• Challenges with Technology (01:13:30)
  • Bruce shares his struggles with technology and relies on his team for support.
• AI in Real Estate (01:15:50)
  • The hosts discuss the potential of AI tools like ChatGPT in enhancing client relations.
• Using AI for Personalization (01:16:30)
  • Bruce shares how he uses AI to refine his communication while maintaining his voice.
• Volunteer Work and AI (01:17:00)
  • Bruce discusses utilizing AI for quick research in his volunteer work with human rights.

Negotiations and Philanthropy

• Negotiation Skills in Brokerage (01:18:20)
  • Bruce highlights the importance of negotiation skills and understanding both sides in deals.
• Unique Negotiation Experience (01:19:50)
  • Bruce recounts his involvement in negotiating the release of a prisoner from Cuba.
• Philanthropy and Professional Identity (01:22:20)
  • Bruce discusses how giving back has shaped his identity and approach in real estate.
• Joining Nonprofit Boards (01:23:00)
  • Bruce encourages new agents to join nonprofit boards for experience and networking.
• Transformative Philanthropic Experience (01:24:20)
  • Bruce shares a story about helping a homeless shelter secure a new building.
• Building Relationships Through Philanthropy (01:26:50)
  • Bruce emphasizes the mutual benefits of philanthropy and professional relationships.
• International Diplomacy Experience (01:27:00)
  • Bruce shares his experiences in international diplomacy, including meetings with UN ambassadors.
• Involvement in B’nai B’rith (01:28:10)
  • Discussion on Bruce’s early involvement with B’nai B’rith and its impact on his life.
• First Diplomatic Meeting (01:29:00)
  • Bruce recounts his first diplomatic meeting and how it sparked his interest in international relations.
• Meeting with World Leaders (01:29:50)
  • Bruce shares his experiences meeting various world leaders, including popes and former Egyptian president Mubarak.

Personal Challenges and Advice

• Biggest Professional Challenge (01:31:10)
  • Bruce discusses overcoming challenges in commercial real estate, particularly the lack of technology.
• Balancing Work and Passions (01:32:10)
  • Bruce emphasizes prioritizing professional responsibilities while managing personal passions.
• Advice to Younger Self (01:33:15)
  • Bruce shares valuable financial advice for young brokers, emphasizing living within means.
• Life Priorities (01:35:00)
  • Bruce discusses balancing family, work, and charitable contributions in his life.
• Future Plans in Real Estate (01:36:15)
  • Bruce talks about transitioning his business to partners as he plans for retirement.
• Billboard Message for the Public (01:37:00)
  • Bruce reflects on gratitude and the impact of his career, envisioning a thank-you message on a billboard.

Similar Episodes

• Tom Fulcher
• Sharon Oliver
• Wendy Feldman Block
• Vernon Knarr

Kevin Dean Colin Thomas

Panelists’ Previous Episode Links with Bios

• Toby Bozzuto
• Vicki Davis
• Henry Fonvielle
• Bob Murphy
• Lacy Rice

Show Notes

• John Coe welcomes attendees and introduces the session agenda, highlighting member briefings and a panel discussion. (5:00)
• Kevin Dean’s Journey (00:05:30)
  • Kevin shares his experiences in the real estate community and the value of peer relationships and learning opportunities.
• Access and Collaboration (00:07:30)
  • Colin Thomas emphasizes the importance of access to peers and collaborative problem-solving within the real estate community.
• Panel Discussion Introduction (00:09:30)
  • John introduces the panel discussion topics: the 2025 real estate market forecast and advice for young professionals.
• 2025 Real Estate Market Trends (00:10:30)
  • Bob Murphy and Lacy Rice discuss anticipated trends in the DC real estate market, focusing on office space and demographic changes.
• Demographics and Employment Challenges (00:11:15)
  • Lacy discusses how demographics and employment trends will impact the DC real estate market moving forward.
• Multifamily Sector Insights (00:13:30)
  • Toby Bozzuto shares insights on the multifamily sector and the impact of capital flow on acquisitions and developments.
• Baby Boomer Retirement Trends (00:15:50)
  • Vicki Davis discusses the implications of baby boomers retiring and their effect on the housing market and demographics.
• Home Ownership Trends (00:17:50)
  • Vicki explores trends in home ownership, noting a shift towards suburban living over urban buying.
• Retail Market Dynamics (00:18:20)
  • Henry Fonvielle discusses the strength of suburban shopping centers and the challenges facing urban retail environments in DC.
• Suburban Retail Challenges (00:20:40)
  • Henry discusses the impact of high construction costs and interest rates on suburban retail development.
• Retail Market Dynamics (00:21:00)
  • Henry discusses current rents, prices and the challenges in leasing up new retail spaces.
• Updating Retail Shopping Centers (00:21:30)
  • The need for improvements in outdated retail centers to attract tenants and customers.
• Investment in Shopping Centers (00:22:00)
  • Insights on high net worth individuals buying retail properties with cash, impacting market competition.
• Risks in Retail Development (00:22:45)
  • Henry goes on to express concerns over high rents and interest rates affecting new retail developments.
• Big Box Retail Trends (00:23:10)
  • Analysis of the changing dynamics in big box retail rents and tenant demands.
• Gallery Place Investment Insights (00:23:55)
  • Bob Murphy discusses past investments and the challenges faced during the pandemic in the Gallery Place area.
• Commercial Real Estate Opportunities (00:25:00)
  • Bob discusses current risks and opportunities for commercial real estate professionals amidst market changes.
• Construction Cost Concerns (00:26:15)
  • Lacy cites rising construction costs and their long-term impact on profitability in real estate.
• Market Opportunities Amidst Fear (00:27:30)
  • Lacy encourages young audience members to view current market fears as opportunities for investment and growth.
• Housing Policy and Affordability (00:28:30)
  • Bob discusses the ineffectiveness of current housing policies in increasing affordable housing availability.
• Historical Context of Market Changes (00:29:00)
  • Bob and Lacy reflect on past market changes and the importance of long-term investment strategies.
• Food Deserts and Grocery Store Challenges (00:30:10)
  • Bob introduces and Henry expands on the struggles of grocery stores in food deserts and their impact on local communities.
• Urban Development and Investment (00:33:55)
  • Vicki shares insights into challenges faced in urban development projects, including financing and government restrictions.
• The Shift in City Values (00:34:30)
  • Vicki discusses the liberal shift in the city affecting law enforcement and public safety.
• Challenges in Real Estate Development (00:36:15)
  • Insight into the challenges faced in affordable housing production and economic conditions.
• Impact of 2008 Housing Market (00:36:45)
  • Reflection on the 2008 market crash and its lasting effects on construction prices.
• Current Construction Costs (00:38:00)
  • Overview of high construction costs and risks in the current real estate market.
• Opportunities Amidst Challenges (00:38:45)
  • Toby emphasizes finding opportunities in a challenging market environment and the potential for growth.
• Future Rent Trends (00:42:15)
  • Toby predicts mammoth rent growth due to low supply and high demand in the market.
• Workforce Housing Needs (00:44:05)
  • Vicki discusses the need for affordable workforce housing amidst rising costs.
• Urban Living Preferences (00:45:00)
  • Vicki surveys the audience on the lifestyle preferences of residents, emphasizing the desire for amenities and community.
• Market Performance Insights (00:46:40)
  • Bob and Henry discuss specific property types and submarkets expected to outperform in the current climate.
• Economic Cycles and Opportunities (00:47:45)
  • Lacy reflects on historical economic cycles and the current opportunities for young professionals in real estate.
• Real Estate Opportunities in Office Space (00:50:20)
  • Bob discusses potential in office spaces and multifamily developments.
• Advice for Young Investors (00:51:20)
  • Bob and Vicki discuss strategies for starting small in real estate with friends and leveraging existing assets.
• Navigating Remote Work Challenges (00:53:55)
  • Bob discusses the importance of in-person collaboration and maintaining workplace culture amid remote work.
• Building Credibility in Real Estate (00:55:30)
  • Bob talks about the significance of personal credibility and integrity in real estate dealings.
• The Power of Networking (00:56:40)
  • Toby and Lacy emphasize the importance of being present and building connections within the industry.
• Advice for New Real Estate Professionals (01:00:15)
  • Vicki advises having a career plan and the importance of relationships in real estate.
• Building Professional Relationships (01:04:20)
  • Toby discusses supporting employees’ growth and the ripple effect of their success on the community.
• Networking for Mentorship (01:05:40)
  • Henry shares advice on building professional networks and the importance of seizing opportunities in charitable events.
• Taking Risks in Career Development (01:07:20)
  • Henry emphasizes taking risks and making connections to enhance career opportunities in real estate.
• The Role of Technology in Real Estate (01:12:15)
  • Lacy discusses how technology and data analytics are transforming the real estate industry and improving efficiency.
• Opportunities in Private Credit (01:17:00)
  • Lacy discusses on the rise of private credit in real estate and its implications for the industry dynamics.
• Challenges with CMBS Special Servicers (01:18:20)
  • Henry and Lacy share insights into the problematic relationship with CMBS special servicers and their incentives during defaults.
• Real Estate Challenges and Opportunities (01:20:30)
  • Lacy discusses how troubled assets in real estate may sit idle and present opportunities for renovation.
• Future Market Predictions (01:20:45)
  • Speculation about the potential for real estate opportunities in the next 5 to 10 years.
• Community Acknowledgments (01:21:20)
  • Lacy praises John’s efforts in building relationships and sharing knowledge within the real estate community.
• Podcast Evolution (01:22:25)
  • John shares the inspiration behind starting the Icons of DC Area Real Estate podcast and its growth over time.
• Community Engagement (01:23:40)
  • John encourages feedback from attendees to improve community initiatives and programs.
• Discussion on BXP Deal (01:25:40)
  • Henry Fonvielle raises questions about the implications of tearing down a building for new development.
• Changing Office Space Dynamics (01:26:30)
  • Panelists discuss the evolution of office space needs and the potential for redevelopment.
• Opportunities in Class A Office Space (01:26:45)
  • Insights on how top-tier office spaces are performing well despite economic challenges.
• Future of Downtown Buildings (01:27:30)
  • Discussion on potential demolition and redevelopment of underperforming buildings in downtown areas.
• Challenges of Building Repurposing (01:31:30)
  • Panelists share experiences and challenges in converting office buildings to residential spaces.
• Market Dynamics and Government Influence (01:33:30)
  • Discussion on the impact of government actions on real estate market dynamics and occupancy rates.
• Future of Fannie and Freddie (01:36:15)
  • Conversation about the potential privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and its implications.
• Understanding Capital Markets (01:36:45)
  • Discussion on the implications for capital markets and the real estate industry.
• Office Building Conversions (01:37:10)
  • Insights on the challenges and decisions in converting office buildings to other uses.
• Finding the Right Contractor (01:38:30)
  • Importance of selecting a suitable contractor for successful renovation projects.
• Affordable Senior Housing (01:39:30)
  • Overview of the market for affordable senior housing and its unique challenges.
• Senior Housing Market Dynamics (01:40:00)
  • Discussion on the resistance of seniors to downsize and the complexities involved.
• Demographic Trends in Housing (01:42:30)
  • Analysis of how aging baby boomers and millennials impact housing demand.
• Creating Experiences for Seniors (01:44:10)
  • Emphasis on the importance of experiences and community for senior living.
• Engagement in Senior Living (01:44:30)
  • The social aspects of living in senior communities and their benefits.
• Challenges in Senior Relocation (01:45:10)
  • Reflections on the difficulties in encouraging seniors to make lifestyle changes.

Gratitude for Event

Thank you to Ron Gart of Seyfarth Shaw for arranging to host this event and for participating in the Iconic Journey in CRE Board.

Iconic Journey in CRE

The Iconic Journey in CRE is a nonprofit organization that promotes learning and connections for young commercial real estate professionals through the Icons in DC Area Real Estate podcast, the Iconic Journey in CRE community, and Career Coaching Curriculum led by its Board and funded by its Sponsors and membership dues. If you are interested in learning more about the community or sponsorship, please reach out to John Coe at john@coeenterprises.com.

Insightful Quotes:

Bob Murphy: “You know, and so which means a couple things. Credibility. First of all, you gotta be good at what you do and you got to be honest. And, you know, you and you got to be, you know, you know, never hide. So for me, I’m always, you know, I put my partner and the deal first. Me and my firm second.”

Lacy Rice: Construction with the construction costs of the last 40 years. When they make these quantum moves up, they don’t come back down. They sort of stay level. And there’s a decent amount of margin in construction costs. So what you’re seeing now, with the handful of starts that we’re starting to see across the country, is contractors are operating effectively a 0% margin so that they can keep their subs employed and keep their people in business because they know in 12 to 24 months it’s going to change, and they want to be on the front end of it.

Vicki Davis: So. I ask everybody who comes to interview with us. So what’s your five year plan? Where would you like to be? Where are you going? What’s your ambition? How are you going to get there? And? And it’s shocking how many people don’t have a plan. Well, I’ve never really thought about that. Like, what the hell, man? So first, figure out what you love, what you’re good at. 

Toby Bozzuto: You know how quilts have squares of different, different, different textures, etc. and they’re all sort of sewn together. Well, think of everything you do. Like this morning is a square. And then go to your office today. That’s another square. And sometimes I say, I have no idea what the hell that event was all about for a fundraiser. It’s boring or something. But you were there, and something may have happened. And eventually you’ll look around, you’ll. You’ll turn around and they’ll all be knit together.

Henry Fonvielle: This is an interesting story. When I went to. I’ve now been at Rappaport for 20 years. The people that when I left, I thought were not my buddies. They’re the people who called me up and gave me business. You know, you don’t know who’s going to be your best mentor or source of business in the future. Love, everybody. It’s easy. Smiles free you know. And I think when you smile, it gives you personal enjoyment too.

Bio

Toby is Regional Partner for Transwestern Development Company and is based in Washington. In this role, he oversees and directs the company’s development pipeline in the Mid-Atlantic region.

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS

Throughout his nearly 30-year career, Toby has developed over 15 million square feet of residential, office and retail space. Prior to joining Transwestern, Toby was Senior Vice President at Brookfield Properties, where he oversaw the development pipeline in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast regions. Prior to Brookfield, he was Senior Vice President at Vornado Realty Trust, creating and leading the multifamily development group for Vornado’s Washington division. Earlier in his career, Toby owned and operated Agora Development, a development and homebuilding company, and worked for Washington-area developers EYA and Abdo Development.

PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATION / RECOGNITION

• DC Building Industry Association (DCBIA), Board of Directors, Vice President
• DC History Center, Board of Trustees
• Urban Land Institute, Member
• Cornell Real Estate Council, Member

EDUCATION

Toby earned a bachelor’s degree from Cornell University and a master’s in city and regional planning from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Show Notes

Joining Transwestern (00:06:37)
Toby shares his recruitment to Transwestern and his role overseeing development activities.

Overview of Transwestern’s Operations (00:07:05)
Toby explains his responsibilities and the scope of projects in the mid-Atlantic region.

Business Development Strategies (00:08:39)
Discussion on joint ventures and project strategies in competitive markets.

Toby’s Family Background (00:09:20)
Toby shares insights about his family and their careers in engineering and consulting.

Influence of Childhood Experiences (00:12:14)
Toby reflects on how his childhood experiences shaped his interest in urban planning.

Early Inspirations in Urban Design (00:15:19)
Toby discusses a pivotal lecture by architect Andres Duany that solidified his passion for urban planning.

Education at Cornell University (00:18:08)
Toby talks about his experience at Cornell and how he focused on urban planning.

Graduate Studies at UNC (00:22:03)
Toby shares his decision to pursue a master’s degree in city planning at UNC Chapel Hill.

Engineering Coordination in Large Projects (00:23:10)
Discussion on coordinating various engineering disciplines for significant projects like Boston’s Big Dig.

International Project in India (00:24:49)
Overview of planning an interstate highway project in Karnataka, India, including city development.

Zoning Analysis for Office Park (00:26:33)
Toby describes conducting a zoning analysis for an office park acquisition outside Boston.

Transition to Real Estate (00:28:45)
Toby reflects on his motivation to shift from planning to the real estate side.

Interview with Toll Brothers (00:29:53)
Details of Toby’s interview process with Toll Brothers and his introduction of GIS technology.

GIS Implementation at Toll Brothers (00:31:22)
Toby explains how GIS was used for site acquisition and planning in unfamiliar markets.

Learning Land Acquisition (00:33:11)
Toby shares insights gained from his experience in land acquisition at Toll Brothers.

Joining EYA (00:34:17)
Toby discusses his transition to EYA and the company’s early successes in urban development.

Infill Development Strategies (00:36:29)
Insights on innovative design and development strategies in urban infill projects.

Bryan School Project (00:41:14)
Toby recounts the adaptive reuse project of the Bryan School on Capitol Hill.

Partnership with Jim Abdo (00:43:40)
Toby describes forming a partnership with Jim Abdo and working on notable projects together.

Senate Square Project (00:45:23)
Discussion of the Senate Square project, including its historic building conversion and unique architecture.

Impact of the Financial Crisis (00:46:22)
Toby reflects on the financial crisis in 2008 and its effects on his career and projects.

Moving to Upstate New York (00:47:50)
Decision to relocate to Finger Lakes region for personal and professional reasons during the economic downturn.

Starting Agora Development (00:48:59)
Toby shares plans for his new company focused on prefabricated construction in college towns.

Transition to Vornado (00:50:08)
Toby receives an offer from Vornado to lead a multifamily development platform, prompting a career shift.

Difficult Decision to Leave (00:51:42)
Toby discusses the challenges of leaving his entrepreneurial venture for a more stable job at Vornado.

Vornado’s Development Opportunities (00:53:31)
Overview of Vornado’s existing development sites and the potential for future projects.

JBG Merger Rumors (00:55:21)
Toby learns about the impending merger with JBG and its implications for the development team.

Joining Martin Ditto (00:57:09)
Toby explores a partnership with Martin Ditto, focusing on innovative design and development projects.

Brookfield Acquisition of Forest City (01:00:06)
Toby transitions to Brookfield after its acquisition of Forest City, overseeing development in the mid-Atlantic.

Working with Debbie Ratner Salzberg (01:00:54)
Collaboration with Debbie Ratner Salzberg at Brookfield and involvement in significant development projects.

Transitioning to Transwestern (01:03:40)
Toby discusses his move to Transwestern Development Company, seeking a blend of stability and entrepreneurial spirit.

Transwestern Development Company Rebranding (01:08:14)
Discussion on the rebranding of Perseus TDC to Transwestern Development Company and its market perception.

Bob Cohen‘s Retirement (01:09:16)
Toby shares insights about Bob Cohen’s retirement and transition plans within the company.

Family Culture at Transwestern (01:10:24)
Toby describes the family-like culture at Transwestern and its connection to previous experiences.

Market Perception of Transwestern (01:10:59)
The need for educating the market on Transwestern’s full capabilities beyond brokerage and property management.

Financing Process Overview (01:11:40)
Toby explains the financing structure and relationships with equity partners and capital markets.

Recent Projects Overview (01:15:04)
Discussion on completed and upcoming projects, including “The Six” and “Capital Rose.”

Managing Development Projects (01:18:22)
Toby outlines the structure and management of the development team handling multiple projects.

Focus on Residential Development (01:19:53)
Insights on the current focus on residential projects rather than commercial developments.

Challenges in Development (01:21:12)
The complexities of developing residential projects in urban areas and navigating entitlement processes.

Site Evaluation Criteria (01:24:10)
Toby discusses the characteristics and considerations for evaluating potential development sites.

Identifying Project Potential (01:26:17)
The importance of recognizing upside potential in projects and historical examples of success.

Impact of Market Factors (01:29:13)
Discussion on how work-from-home trends and the affordability crisis affect development and operations.

Technological Innovations in Development (01:30:23)
Toby highlights the slow adoption of new technologies in construction and their potential benefits.

Market Viability and Dynamics (01:31:17)
Discussion on the challenges of making projects viable and understanding market dynamics.

Predicting Market Demand (01:32:01)
Exploration of the difficulty in predicting future market demand for real estate projects.

RCKRBX Software Insights (01:32:17)
Introduction of a predictive analytics software aimed at understanding tenant preferences and future trends.

Urban Development Trends (01:32:56)
Toby discusses instinctual predictions about urban development trends and consumer preferences.

Post-Pandemic Market Changes (01:34:15)
Impact of the pandemic on living arrangements and changing utility needs in urban spaces.

Co-working Spaces in Apartments (01:34:29)
Emergence of co-working spaces as essential amenities in residential buildings.

Amenity Wars and Market Adjustments (01:35:32)
Trends in apartment amenities and the reduction of unnecessary features like pools.

Hotelization of Residential Properties (01:36:26)
Discussion on the merging of hotel design elements into residential properties.

Current Urban Development Dynamics (01:38:01)
Insights on how urban development is primarily driven by residential demand in DC.

Future of Office Development (01:38:38)
Speculation on the resurgence of office development amid changing federal employment dynamics.

Hiring Characteristics and Company Culture (01:41:09)
Toby shares the key characteristics he seeks in new hires for his company.

Balancing Career and Family (01:43:06)
Toby reflects on the challenges of balancing work, family, and community engagement.

Advice for Young Leaders (01:45:10)
Toby offers career planning and business performance advice for young professionals.

Acquisitions vs. Development (01:48:03)
Discussion on the differences between acquisitions and development in real estate.

Biggest Wins and Losses (01:49:41)
Toby shares his biggest career win and loss related to starting his own company.

Surprises in Career Path (01:50:42)
Toby reflects on unexpected shifts in his career trajectory from urban planning to real estate development.

Advice to Younger Self (01:52:23)
Toby shares what he would tell his younger self about education and career choices.

Advice on Education and Career (01:53:27)
Toby discusses the importance of planning education and recommends pursuing an MBA or real estate program.

Community Support for Career Planning (01:54:05)
John shares his initiative to help individuals with career planning and skill development after college.

Billboard Message on Simplification (01:54:30)
Toby suggests a simple message, “Just simplify,” emphasizing the complexity of real estate development and personal life.

The Value of Simplicity in Life (01:55:30)
Toby reflects on the importance of maintaining simplicity in personal life to manage professional complexities effectively.

Closing Remarks and Gratitude (01:56:15)
John expresses gratitude for Toby’s insights and contributions during the podcast episode.

Similar Episodes

• Sean Caldwell
• Bob Cohen
• Bob Youngentob

Bio

GARY COHEN

Chairman & President

Gary brings a third generation of the Cohen’s family leadership to the management of Willco with over 25 years of experience in many facets related to real estate. He spent the last 20+ years running Willco Residential developing more than 500 units throughout Washington, DC. In his current role, Gary works closely with the CEO setting management policy and developing the strategic business plan for the ongoing and future success of Willco with a focus on acquisitions and development.  Prior to Willco Residential, Gary held positions at Axent Realty in Maryland and Newmark Companies in New York City where he was involved in property management, leasing, and construction.

Gary has also been active in charter schools in Washington, DC serving on the board of KIPP DC and was the founding Board Chair of Inspired Teaching Public Charter School. Gary received a B.S. degree from Syracuse University and a M.A. degree from Pace University in New York. He is also a member of the Economic Club and Federal City Council.

Show Notes

Family History

• Introduction to Gary Cohen (00:06:20)
  • Gary Cohen, a third-generation member of the Cohen family, shares his family’s history with Willco Construction.
• Founding of Willco Construction (00:06:50)
  • Gary discusses how his grandfather, William Cohen, founded Willco in the 1960s after starting a trash company.
• Early Life of William Cohen (00:07:00)
  • Gary recounts his grandfather’s challenging upbringing and early work experiences in the trash industry.
• Transition to Capital Trash (00:08:00)
  • William Cohen decided to start his own trash company, Capital Trash, after years of working for others.
• Growth of Capital Trash (00:08:15)
  • Gary explains how his grandfather grew Capital Trash into a large waste disposal company through clever marketing.
• Acquisition by Wayne Huizenga (00:09:15)
  • Wayne Huizenga approached Gary’s grandfather to buy Capital Trash, leading to a significant financial opportunity.
• Shift to Real Estate (00:10:00)
  • After selling Capital Trash, William Cohen invested in real estate, recognizing its potential for growth.
• First Real Estate Deal (00:12:00)
  • Gary describes his grandfather’s first deal involving tenement housing and the establishment of the Vanguard building (1111 20th St. NW, Washington DC).

Personal Early Background

• Growing Up in a Real Estate Family (00:14:15)
  • Gary reflects on his privileged upbringing in a real estate family and the opportunities he experienced.
• Early Work Experiences (00:15:00)
  • Gary shares his childhood experiences working on construction sites with his father, learning the business firsthand.
• Brother Phil’s Role (00:17:00)
  • Gary discusses his brother Phil’s focus on finance within the family business compared to his own creative interests.
• Education at Syracuse University (00:17:30)
  • Gary talks about his college experience at Syracuse, where he majored in psychology and played sports.
• Teaching Aspirations (00:18:45)
  • Initially wanting to teach, Gary pursued a master’s in education before realizing he wanted to return to real estate.
• Involvement in Education (00:20:00)
  • Despite leaving teaching, Gary remained involved in education through coaching and supporting charter schools.
• Realization about Teaching (00:20:30)
  • Gary reflects on the challenges of teaching and his realization that he lacked the necessary patience for it.

Real Estate Career

• Career Shift to Real Estate (00:23:00)
  • After a brief teaching career, Gary sought opportunities in real estate, motivated by his family’s background.
• Starting at Newmark (00:24:30)
  • Gary shares how he began his real estate career at Newmark, initially as an assistant in property management.
• Learning the Business (00:25:00)
  • Gary discusses the hands-on learning experiences he gained while working in property management and construction.
• Experience at the Flatiron Building (00:25:30)
  • Gary describes a significant project at the Flatiron Building, where he learned about renovations and construction details.
• Growing Up in a Real Estate Family (00:26:30)
  • Gary discusses his upbringing, initial career aspirations, and the pressure to join the family business.

Return to Family Business and Separate Entity

• Return to Willco Construction (00:27:00)
  • Gary explains his decision to return to Willco and his role in management and construction.
• First Major Project with Peace Corps (00:27:30)
  • He describes managing the Peace Corps project after the Vanguard building had been vacant for years.
• Finding Opportunity in a Challenging Neighborhood (29:40)
  • He recounts identifying a promising property in a challenging neighborhood and seeking partnership for development.
• Partnership with Tom McCullough (00:31:45)
  • Gary discusses forming a partnership with Tom McCullough to develop the identified property.
• Successful Development of Condos (00:32:30)
  • He reflects on the successful sale of duplex condos, achieving record prices in the area.
• Further Projects with McCullough (00:34:00)
  • Gary mentions additional projects developed with Tom, including Jefferson Row and others.
• Evolution of Willco’s Strategy (00:35:30)
  • He explains the shift in Willco’s strategy towards holding properties rather than focusing solely on sales.

Elevation to CEO by Returning to Parent Company

• Return to Family Business (00:36:50)
  • Gary shares the circumstances and motivations behind his decision to return to the family business.
• Legacy and Family Responsibility (00:38:00)
  • He reflects on the importance of family legacy and the responsibilities that come with it.
• Willco’s Evolving Portfolio (00:38:40)
  • Gary discusses the diversification of Willco’s portfolio across various asset classes over the years.

Company Strategy

• Current Projects and Strategy (00:40:00)
  • He outlines Willco’s current focus on smaller projects and remaining nimble in the market.
• Rose Village Project Overview (00:42:00)
  • Gary talks about the legacy asset of Rose Village and its evolution from a farm to a development site.
• Affordable Housing Initiatives (00:43:30)
  • He discusses plans to incorporate affordable housing into the Rose Village project to meet community needs.
• Future Development Plans (00:44:00)
  • Gary shares hopes for breaking ground on the Rose Village project in the next few years.
• Historical Context of the Site (00:44:30)
  • He provides background on the historical significance of the site and previous developments.
• Current Status of Existing Buildings (00:45:30)
  • Gary describes the current state of buildings on the site and future demolition plans.
• First Investments and Development Projects (00:46:00)
  • He reflects on Willco’s first investments and the development of the 1275 Pennsylvania Ave., NW project.
• Willco Construction’s Foundation (00:47:00)
  • Gary discusses his grandfather’s acquisition of a property in the mid-60s, marking the start of their family legacy.
• Pennsylvania Avenue Development (00:49:00)
  • The conversation shifts to the historical context of development efforts initiated during the Kennedy administration.
• Evolution of Tenants (00:49:00)
  • Gary reflects on tenant changes in a building renovated by his father in the mid-80s.
• Future of Pennsylvania Avenue (00:50:00)
  • Discussion on the potential impact of the FBI redevelopment on the future of Pennsylvania Avenue.
• Recent Projects (00:51:08)
  • Overview of the successful completion of a recent residential project with retail space
• Decision-Making Process (00:51:30)
  • Gary explains the strategic pivot from office space to residential development based on market research.
• Challenges in the Office Market (00:52:00)
  • The discussion highlights the decline in the office market, accelerated by factors like COVID-19.
• Successful Apartment Building (00:53:00)
  • Gary describes the successful features of their new apartment building, including leasing and tenant mix.
• Collaboration with Bozzuto (00:53:30)
  • Gary praises Bozzuto for their guidance in understanding demographics and amenities for their apartment project.
• Future Residential Developments (00:55:15)
  • Gary discusses the challenges of finding new residential development opportunities in the current market.
• Potential Hotel Conversion (00:56:00)
  • The idea of converting a government tenant building into a hotel is explored in early planning stages.
• Staying DC-Centric (00:57:00)
  • Gary emphasizes Willco’s commitment to remaining focused on the D.C. market despite broader challenges.
• Activating Public Spaces (00:58:00)
  • The speakers discuss strategies to enhance public spaces and parks in D.C. to attract residents.
• Building Height Regulations (00:58:50)
  • Gary argues for changes in building height regulations to promote urban development beyond historical limits.

Culture, Mentors and Personal

• Family Culture at Willco (01:02:30)
  • Gary highlights the importance of family culture within Willco, leading to employee loyalty and success.
• Legacy Family Business Insights (01:03:45)
  • Gary reflects on the complexities of managing a family business and the importance of mutual commitment.
• Influential Mentors (01:06:30)
  • Gary shares insights on the mentors who have shaped his career in real estate development.
• Gift from a Client (01:07:00)
  • A surprising moment when Marvin Jawer, a mutual friend and client of John’s, offers a $10,000 check as a gift instead of a contract.
• Zoning Opportunities (01:10:00)
  • Discussion of a significant zoning project in Arlington County and the developers involved.
• Mentorship in Real Estate (01:11:50)
  • Gary reflects on influential mentors throughout his career, including connections in New York.
• Comparing Business Environments (01:12:30)
  • Insights on the competitive nature of real estate in Washington versus other major cities.
• Career Wins and Losses (01:14:00)
  • Gary shares regrets about selling properties he wishes he had retained for a healthier portfolio.
• Lessons from Construction Mistakes (01:16:00)
  • A cautionary tale about due diligence in hiring contractors after a project disaster.
• Lengthy Legal Battles (01:17:00)
  • The timeline of resolving issues with a problematic contractor during a building project.
• The Value of Mistakes (01:17:30)
  • Gary emphasizes that learning from failures often leads to greater wisdom in business.
• Architect and Contractor Relationships (01:18:00)
  • Gary discusses his approach to working with architects and managing construction projects.
• Leasing and Property Management (01:18:30)
  • An overview of Willco’s property management and leasing strategies, including third-party partnerships.
• Long-Term Property Strategy (01:18:37)
  • Gary contemplates the possibility of selling properties if the right opportunity arises.
• Surprising Career Events (01:19:48)
  • Reflection on a surprising deal at Pennsylvania Avenue that positively impacted Gary’s career.
• Community Involvement (01:20:30)
  • Gary discusses his contributions to education through involvement with KIPP DC and other schools.
• Founding a Charter School (01:22:33)
  • His role as founding board chair for Inspired Teaching Demonstration Public Charter School in DC.
• Transition to Family Focus (01:24:30)
  • Gary shares his current focus on family and supporting his children through college.
• Advice to Younger Self (01:26:32)
  • Gary suggests working in another real estate company for a decade to gain valuable experience.
• Billboard Message (01:27:50)
  • A thought-provoking question about ensuring the heart and mind are in concert for success.
• Importance of Balance (01:28:30)
  • Gary emphasizes that achieving balance is key to personal and professional success.

Similar Episodes

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Interested in Joining the Iconic Journey in CRE Community? Click Here!

Bio

Oliver Carr serves as Carr Properties’ Chief Executive Officer and is a member of its Board of Directors. Oliver serves on the Executive Committee of the Federal City Council, serves on the Advisory Board of Housing Nantucket, is the former Chairman of the Executive Board of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Center for Real Estate, and is a member of the Real Estate Roundtable. Prior to founding Carr Properties, Oliver served as Chairman and CEO of Columbia Equity Trust (NYSE:CEO), where he and his team successfully took the company public in 2005. During his career, Oliver has completed over $7.5 billion of property acquisitions, developments, mergers, joint ventures, and financings. Oliver received his Master of Science in Real Estate Development from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and his Bachelor of Arts in Urban Studies, with a concentration in Economics from Trinity College.

Back Story

In February, 2020, Oliver Carr was interviewed just before the COVID Pandemic began (See Episode #10). Because of our long time relationship and the considerable changes to the market and to Carr Properties’ portfolio, this is a sequel episode to update on his activities during the pandemic and its aftermath. As you will hear, he is quite optimistic about the future after a difficult period from 2020 until earlier this year, where he believes that the market has “bottomed out.” Please enjoy this episode!

Show Notes

Reflections of Pandemic and Its Effects

• Introduction and Reflection on Past Interview (00:06:15)
  • John welcomes Ollie back, reflecting on their long relationship and the timing of their last conversation.
• Surreal Experience of February 2020 (00:06:45)
  • Ollie shares a unique experience during a board meeting next to a significant COVID-19 event.
• Initial Adaptation to COVID-19 (00:07:45)
  • Discussion on how they planned for potential rent payment issues during the pandemic.
• Unexpected Performance of Office Sector (00:08:20)
  • Ollie highlights that office properties performed well, with high rent collection rates during COVID.
• Focus on Customer Experience During COVID (00:09:20)
  • Emphasis on creating a safe environment and enhancing building amenities for returning customers.
• Occupancy Challenges (00:10:15)
  • Ollie discusses low physical occupancy rates during the pandemic and the shift to managing operating expenses.
• Impact of Social Unrest (00:11:00)
  • Ollie recounts challenges faced due to social unrest, including vandalism and property damage.
• Active Development During COVID (00:11:45)
  • Ollie describes ongoing construction projects and praises the efforts of construction teams during the pandemic.
• Leasing Success During COVID (00:13:15)
  • Discussion on leasing activity during the pandemic and the importance of quality products.
• Long-term Implications for the Office Market (00:14:50)
  • Ollie shares insights on the office market’s future and the importance of quality in real estate.
• Quality and Market Trends (00:15:30)
  • Ollie explains the flight to quality in the office sector and current market vacancy rates.

Shift to Mixed Use and Residential

• Mixed-Use Development Plans (00:17:45)
  • Ollie discusses plans for developing mixed-use projects to mitigate office market risks.
• Influence of Hospitality Experience (00:20:45)
  • Ollie reflects on lessons learned from his father’s hotel portfolio and its impact on customer service.

Expansions to Boston and Austin

• Expansion into New Markets (00:23:45)
  • Ollie explains the rationale behind expanding into Boston and Austin and their performance.
• Challenges in Boston’s Office Market (00:26:00)
  • Ollie discusses the high costs of construction and market conditions for new office developments.
• Austin’s Development Plans (00:29:30)
  • Ollie outlines their initial plans for Austin and the current supply challenges in the market.
• Comparison of Return-to-Office Rates (00:31:15)
  • Ollie contrasts return-to-office rates between Austin and Washington, D.C., noting regional differences.
• The Importance of In-Person Interaction (32:00)
  • Discussion on the value of in-person meetings and mentorship in building relationships.
• Expansion into New Markets (33:20)
  • Exploration of why the company chose Boston and Austin over California for expansion.

Focus on Quality and Redevelopment in Lieu of Adaptive Reuse

• Focus on Quality Existing Buildings (34:40)
  • Strategy shift towards acquiring and improving existing commercial office buildings.
• Adaptive Reuse Challenges (36:35)
  • Challenges and considerations in converting office buildings to residential use.
• Property Management Strategy (38:00)
  • Plans to collaborate with third-party managers for their new residential developments.
• Current Portfolio and Opportunities (40:15)
  • Discussion on the current portfolio and the perceived investment opportunities in the market.
• Market Trends in Office Buildings (41:20)
  • Insights on the current state of office building valuations and potential investment strategies.
• Urban Development Focus (42:30)
  • Clarification of the company’s definition of urban development and target locations.
• Residential Development in Boston (44:00)
  • Legislative changes in Massachusetts promoting affordable housing development near transit.
• Federal Buildings vacated to CBD Buildings (47:00)
  • Josh Bernstein’s idea of vacating buildings allowing for redevelopment in Southwest DC
• Conversion of Office to Residential (51:15)
  • Challenges in repurposing office buildings for residential use and the need for strategic locations.

DC Initiatives for Housing

• Creative Financing for Housing (55:30)
  • Discussion on potential incentives for developing housing for federal employees.
• Tax Abatement Programs in DC (56:10)
  • Recognition of DC’s tax abatement program aiding the conversion of office spaces to residential.
• The Impact of Falling Values on Commercial Office Space (00:58:00)
  • Discussion on the significant drop in commercial office values and opportunities for creating open spaces.
• The Height Act in Washington (00:58:30)
  • Debate on modifying the Height Act to allow for taller buildings, enhancing downtown density and interest.

Carr Properties Services and Employment

• Hiring Criteria at Carr Properties (01:00:40)
  • Overview of the importance of teamwork and customer service mindset in hiring practices.
• In-House Disciplines at Carr Properties (01:02:20)
  • Description of the various in-house teams and their roles in the company’s operations.
• Customer Service Approach (01:04:00)
  • Emphasis on prioritizing customer experience and internal team dynamics for success in real estate.

Giving Back to the Community

• Community Involvement and Giving Back (01:05:40)
  • Discussion on focused charitable efforts supporting underserved youth through local schools.
• The CARR Cares Concert (01:08:05)
  • Details about an annual charity concert aimed at raising funds for local schools and supporting youth.

Personal Challenges and Advice

• Perseverance Through Challenges (01:10:30)
  • Reflection on gut-check moments during the pandemic and the resilience of the team.
• Fannie Mae’s Lease Termination (01:13:00)
  • Insights into Fannie Mae’s downsizing and the subsequent lease renewal, highlighting market demand.
• Advice for Young Professionals (01:14:50)
  • Encouragement for young professionals to learn and adapt in the current volatile market.
• Optimism and Perseverance (01:17:25)
  • Final thoughts on maintaining optimism and perseverance in challenging times.

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Iconic Journey in CRE

As referenced in the introduction, if you are interested in learning more about the Iconic Journey in CRE, please click on this link.

Bio

Shekar Narasimhan is the Managing Partner at Beekman Advisors which provides strategic advisory services to companies and investors involved in real estate, mortgage finance, affordable housing and related sectors.  Shekar is a Co-Founder for the Remergent Communities Fund, an Opportunity Zone Fund, focusing on small towns and cities in the Southeast U.S.  He also serves as Chairman of Papillon Capital, focused on sustainable infrastructure investing.  Prior to Beekman Advisors, Shekar Narasimhan was a Managing Director of Prudential Mortgage Capital Company, one of the nation’s leading providers of commercial mortgage financing. Immediately prior to Shekar’s time at Prudential, he was Chairman & CEO of the WMF Group, a publicly traded, commercial mortgage financial services company. WMF was one of the largest such firms in the country before being acquired by Prudential in 2000.

Shekar is a former Chairman and Commissioner for the Virginia Housing Development Authority.  Previously, he also served as a Member of the Board for Housing and Community Development in Virginia, and as a Commissioner on President Obama’s Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders.

Shekar is currently serving on the boards of Broadstone Net Lease, Inc., Enterprise Community Partners, Inc., Democracy Alliance and the Sorenson Institute for Political Leadership.  He is on the Advisory Committee for the Bipartisan Policy Center’s J. Ronald Terwilliger Center for Housing Policy, the Council of Advisors for the Center for American Progress and is a member of the Urban Institute’s Policy Leadership Council.  He has served on many boards, including the Low Income Investment Fund, the Community Preservation and Development Corporation, the National Housing Conference and the National Multi Housing Council.  Shekar also served several terms on the Mortgage Bankers Association of America (MBA) Board of Directors, was the first Chair of the MBA’s Commercial/Multifamily Board of Governors (COMBOG) and founded its Multifamily Steering Committee. He was elected as the first Chair of the Fannie Mae DUS Advisory Committee.  He is a sought-after speaker on housing finance and affordable housing and is considered a leading expert on rental housing issues in the United States.

Shekar co-founded and is President of the Dharma Into Action (DhIA) Foundation, an association of Dharmic American leaders and philanthropists collaborating to create a community-based think tank that identify and respond to urgent needs in the community by providing resources, knowledgebase and relevant information to serve Americans in need.  He was on the founding board of Indiaspora, a nonprofit organization founded by community leaders to unite Indian Americans and to transform their success into meaningful impact in India and on the global stage.  Shekar was also Co-Founder of Upakar Foundation, a higher education scholarship fund. 

Shekar has received numerous awards and recognition in the real estate industry including the MBA’s highest honor in 1999 and the Fannie Mae Lifetime Achievement Award in 2003.  In 2010, he was the recipient of the Dean H.J. Zoffer Distinguished Service Medal from the University of Pittsburgh.  Shekar holds a BS in Chemical Engineering from the Indian Institute of Technology, New Delhi, India and an MBA from the Katz Graduate School of Business, University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  He has earned the designation of Certified Mortgage Banker (CMB).

Show Notes

Current Role

• Introduction to Shekar Narasimhan (00:04:00)
  • Shekar is introduced as the founder of Beekman Advisors and discusses his impressive background.
• Founding Beekman Advisors (00:04:30)
  • Shekar shares the origin story of Beekman Advisors and his role in the company.
• Career Transition and Insights (00:05:45)
  • Shekar reflects on his career choices and the strategic decisions in the real estate industry.

Origins in India

• Growing Up in India (00:09:10)
  • Shekar discusses his upbringing in Delhi and its impact on his life and career.
• Education at IIT Delhi (00:10:10)
  • He describes his experience at the Indian Institute of Technology and its rigorous admissions process.
• Cultural Identity and Family Influence (00:13:15)
  • Shekar shares insights about Indian families, culture, and the values instilled by his parents.
• Language and Learning (00:15:50)
  • He explains the multilingual environment of his childhood and its significance in his education.
• Father’s Influence and Education (00:17:30)
  • Shekar talks about his father’s dedication to education and the sacrifices made for his studies.

Coming to the United States (University of Pittsburgh)

• Choosing to Study in the U.S. (00:18:30)
  • He reflects on his decision to pursue education in the United States and the appeal of its diversity.
• Arrival in Pittsburgh (00:20:30)
  • Shekar recounts his arrival in Pittsburgh and the warm hospitality he received from locals.
• Differentiation and Background (00:23:45)
  • Shekar emphasizes the importance of distinguishing oneself and creating a unique personal brand.
• Cultural Assimilation and Learning (00:25:10)
  • Discussion on Shekar’s experience assimilating into American culture and learning American football.
• Early Life and Reading Habits (00:27:45)
  • Shekar shares his childhood as a bookworm and how it shaped his skills and memory.
• Reading Recommendations (00:29:20)
  • Shekar suggests reading classics like Plato and Whitman to expand imagination and curiosity.

Work in Appalachia

• Transition to Appalachia (00:30:40)
  • Shekar outlines his journey from Pittsburgh to Appalachia and the motivations behind it.
• Community Development in Appalachia (00:34:10)
  • Shekar describes his work in a small Appalachian town focused on community revitalization.
• Challenges in Community Projects (00:36:00)
  • Discussion on overcoming regulatory hurdles while improving infrastructure in Appalachia.
• Reflections on Poverty (00:39:30)
  • Shekar compares poverty levels in India and Appalachia, highlighting the differences.
• Social Strata and Human Nature (00:40:45)
  • Exploration of social hierarchies globally and the human tendency to focus on winning.
• Optimism and Future Outlook (00:41:45)
  • Shekar emphasizes the importance of hope and optimism in pursuing future opportunities.
• Leaving Appalachia (00:42:20)
  • Shekar explains his decision to leave after two years to allow local leadership to develop.
• The Importance of Home Ownership (00:44:15)
  • Shekar discusses the significance of home ownership for stability and family in Kentucky.
• Grassroots Experience in Appalachia (00:45:45)
  • Shekar reflects on his grassroots work in housing and its impact on his career.
• Cultural Differences in India and the U.S. (00:46:15)
  • He shares challenges faced when comparing housing practices in India and the U.S.

Arrival in Washington DC (Government Work)

• Transition to Washington D.C. (00:47:45)
  • Shekar explains his recruitment to run a federal program for housing development.
• Impact of Political Changes (00:49:20)
  • He describes how the Reagan administration altered the landscape of housing initiatives.

Mortgage Banking/Coop Lending

• Career Shift to Mortgage Banking (00:55:00)
  • Shekar details his entry into mortgage banking and the challenges faced in co-op financing.
• The Role of Co-ops vs. Condominiums (01:01:30)
  • Discussion on the cultural and financial differences between co-ops and condominiums in America.
• Future Generational Perspectives (01:03:30)
  • Shekar speculates on how younger generations may reshape American cultural values.

WMF Group

• The Evolution of WMF Group (01:03:45)
  • Shekar discusses the experiences leading to the founding of WMF Group and his entrepreneurial journey.
• Transition to Washington Mortgage Group (01:04:45)
  • Shekar explains the transition from Clark Financial Services to Washington Mortgage Group after leaving the co-op bank.
• Challenges of Competition (01:05:45)
  • He describes the increasing competition in the mortgage banking industry and the decision to join a larger platform.
• National Bank of Washington Bankruptcy (01:06:30)
  • Shekar recounts the bankruptcy of the National Bank of Washington and its impact on their operations.
• Becoming a DUS Lender (01:06:50)
  • The conversation covers their achievement of becoming one of the first DUS lenders and the challenges faced.
• Reimagining the Business (01:08:10)
  • Shekar shares how the team used bankruptcy as an opportunity to innovate and plan for the future.
• Saudi Investor Involvement (01:09:30)
  • He discusses finding a Saudi investor to help recapitalize the company amidst financial difficulties.
• Building a Diverse Board (01:11:45)
  • Shekar highlights the importance of having a diverse board to navigate challenges and support the company’s growth.
• Focus on Affordable Housing (01:13:00)
  • The company’s commitment to affordable housing and its mission statement are emphasized during this segment.
• Growth of WMF and Industry Changes (01:13:30)
  • Shekar details the rapid growth of WMF and the evolution of the mortgage banking industry in the 1990s.
• Lessons from Public Ownership (01:15:15)
  • He reflects on the experience of being part of a public company and the challenges it presented.

Sale to Prudential

• Return to Prudential (01:17:10)
  • Shekar shares his transition to Prudential and the role he played in building their agency space.
• Multifamily Focus and Mission (01:21:20)
  • The conversation touches on WMF’s focus on multifamily housing and the mission to serve clients and communities.
• Changing Perspectives on Multifamily (01:24:00)
  • Shekar discusses the shift in the perception of multifamily investments within the institutional investment community.
• Discussion on Apartment Leases (01:25:00)
  • The speakers talk about the stability of apartment leases compared to hotel deals.
• Mindset Shift in Real Estate (01:25:30)
  • Shekar discusses the dramatic change in mindset within the real estate industry.
• Willy Walker’s Impact (01:26:00)
  • Shekar reflects on Willy Walker’s integration of various real estate services into one platform.

Beekman Advisors

• Evolving Beekman Advisors (01:27:20)
  • Shekar shares insights on how Beekman Advisors aims to differentiate itself in the market.
• Thought Leadership in Real Estate (01:28:30)
  • Shekar emphasizes the importance of thought leadership in advising clients effectively.
• Agency Network Development (01:29:00)
  • Discussion on the evolution of agency networks and their significance in the real estate industry.
• Dual Agency Conflict (01:29:30)
  • The speakers explain the inherent conflicts in dual agency within mortgage banking.

Transparency and Innovation

• Transparency in Mortgage Banking (01:31:30)
  • Shekar advocates for transparency in the mortgage banking process to build trust.
• Offering Multiple Loan Options (01:32:15)
  • Shekar shares his approach to presenting borrowers with various financing options.
• Innovative Compensation Structures (01:33:10)
  • Discussion on how compensation structures for loan officers were innovated to attract talent.
• Credit Facility Development (01:34:30)
  • Shekar explains the creation of a credit facility for larger institutional borrowers.
• Evolution of the Service Company (01:35:40)
  • Shekar discusses the ongoing evolution of service companies in the real estate sector.

Affordable Housing

• Affordable Housing Initiatives (01:36:45)
  • The speakers explore the potential for profitable affordable housing solutions.
• Amazon’s Investment in Housing (01:37:00)
  • Discussion on Amazon’s significant investment in affordable housing and its motivations.
• Challenges in Housing Construction (01:39:00)
  • Shekar highlights challenges in the housing construction industry and potential solutions.
• Innovative Approaches to Housing (01:40:30)
  • The speakers discuss innovative perspectives on creating value in affordable housing projects.
• Template for Success in Real Estate (01:41:30)
  • Discussion on how past experiences set a template for current real estate success.
• Diversification of Revenue Models (01:42:20)
  • Shekar admires companies that successfully diversify their revenue streams in real estate.

Industry Consolidation

• Consolidation in the Industry (01:43:45)
  • Discussion on the ongoing consolidation trends in the commercial real estate sector.
• Introduction to Bellwether Financial (01:45:30)
  • Overview of Bellwether Financial’s origins and its acquisition by Enterprise.
• Enterprise’s Mission (01:46:15)
  • Insight into Enterprise’s commitment to affordable housing and its historical background.
• Shekar’s Role at Enterprise (01:46:15)
  • Shekar’s involvement with Enterprise and its mission in affordable housing.
• Mergers and Growth Strategies (01:46:30)
  • Discussion on Shekar’s contributions to mergers and growth in the affordable housing sector.

Enterprise and Bellwether

• Acquisition of Bellwether (01:47:00)
  • Exploration of the reasons behind Enterprise’s acquisition of Bellwether Financial.
• Personal Anecdotes about DJ (01:47:40)
  • John shares a personal story about DJ Leffler and his connection to the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.
• Enterprise Mortgage Assessment (01:49:00)
  • Shekar reflects on assessing Enterprise Mortgage and its potential for growth.
• Finding a Merger Partner (01:50:02)
  • Details on the process of finding a suitable merger partner for Enterprise.
• Reverse Merger Dynamics (01:51:45)
  • Discussion on the unique structure of the reverse merger involving Bellwether and Enterprise.
• Ownership Structure and Stability (01:53:45)
  • Shekar explains the ownership model that fosters stability in the mortgage banking industry.
• Challenges in Affordable Housing (01:58:15)
  • The conversation shifts to the challenges faced in scaling affordable housing initiatives.
• Capital and Infrastructure Issues (01:58:45)
  • Shekar discusses the complexities of capital and infrastructure in affordable housing development.

Virginia Housing Development Authority

• Virginia Housing Development Authority (02:00:00)
  • Shekar shares his experiences as chairman of the Virginia Housing Development Authority during COVID-19.
• Emergency Rental Assistance Initiatives (02:02:00)
  • Overview of Virginia’s efforts to assist tenants and landlords during the pandemic.
• Public Service Achievements (02:03:00)
  • Shekar discusses his impactful work in Virginia’s government, focusing on efficiency and support for vulnerable citizens.
• Timeline of Service (02:04:15)
  • He outlines his service period from 2020 to 2022, coinciding with the pandemic.
• Crisis Management Insights (02:05:00)
  • Shekar reflects on the importance of addressing problems directly during crises, emphasizing solution-oriented discussions.

COVID Impacts

• Collaboration During COVID (02:05:45)
  • He shares experiences of working with teams in Richmond to tackle challenges posed by the pandemic effectively.
• The pandemic’s impact on markets (02:06:00)
  • Discussion on the significant social and economic impacts of the pandemic, especially on the office and residential markets.
• Long-term economic changes (0)
  • Shekhar reflects on the shift to a ‘different normal’ in the economy post-pandemic.
• Construction industry during the pandemic (02:07:30)
  • Despite challenges, construction thrived, with a notable surge in multifamily projects.
• Mental health crisis (02:08:00)
  • Shekhar highlights the loneliness epidemic exacerbated by the pandemic, affecting societal interactions.
• Children’s social development (00:03:50)
  • Personal anecdote about children missing crucial social interactions during lockdowns.
• Adaptability of humans (00:05:32)
  • Discussion on human adaptability in response to societal changes and crises.
• Historical context of societal disruption (02:12:15)
  • Shekar compares pandemic effects to past significant events like 9/11 and the Vietnam War.
• Office market consolidation (02:13:30)
  • Insights on the ongoing consolidation in the office market and its implications.
• Retail market recovery (02:14:00)
  • Discussion on the unexpected rebound of the retail sector post-pandemic.

Leadership Experiences and Lessons

• Corporate board experiences (02:15:10)
  • Transition to discussing Shekhar’s personal journey in corporate leadership and diversity in boards.
• Meritocracy in America (02:15:45)
  • Shekar shares his views on meritocracy and the importance of hard work in opportunities.
• Diversity in leadership (02:17:00)
  • Reflections on supporting diversity in leadership roles without compromising meritocracy.
• Opportunities in leadership (02:18:30)
  • Shekar discusses how he earned leadership roles and the importance of surrounding oneself with capable people.
• Challenging the status quo (02:19:00)
  • Insights on the need for diverse perspectives and challenging conventional thinking in leadership.
• Mentorship for young people (02:21:30)
  • Shekar shares advice for youth on character, self-control, and seizing opportunities.
• The Importance of Closing (02:25:50)
  • Shekar discusses the necessity of closing chapters in life to move forward effectively.
• Navigating Networking (02:28:50)
  • Shekar emphasizes the importance of personal interactions for building a professional network.
• Overcoming Public Speaking Fear (02:32:30)
  • Shekhar shares his journey of overcoming fear in public speaking through hard work and practice.
• The Art of Listening (02:37:00)
  • Shekar highlights the difference between listening and hearing, advocating for better communication skills
• The Importance of Open-Mindedness (02:40:50)
  • Discussion on the privilege of social interactions and the value of diverse perspectives.
• Tribal Mentality and Society (02:41:00)
  • Reflection on societal divisions and the challenges of accepting alternative viewpoints.
• Historical Patterns of Crisis (02:41:30)
  • Exploration of historical crises and their relevance to current societal challenges.

Personal Lessons

• Personal Wins and Opportunities (02:42:30)
  • Shekar shares career wins stemming from being asked to take on new roles.
• Earning Belief in Capabilities (02:44:45)
  • Discussion on how to earn others’ belief in your capabilities through actions.
• Balancing Life’s Complexities (02:48:30)
  • The importance of managing various life aspects, including family and career.
• Advice on Partnership (02:51:00)
  • Shekar emphasizes the benefits of finding a partner to grow and succeed together.
• The Power of Belief (02:54:30)
  • Shekar’s idea for a billboard: “Believe,” highlighting the importance of belief in oneself and others.

Similar Episodes

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• Moina Banerjee
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Iconic Journey in CRE

As referenced in the introduction, if you are interested in learning more about the Iconic Journey in CRE, please click on this link.

Bio

Gwen Wright was the former Director of the Montgomery County Planning Department of the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission. She held that position from 2013 until October, 2022. In this role, Ms. Wright oversaw a wide range of projects that aim to improve the quality of life in Montgomery County by conserving and enhancing the natural and built environment. Montgomery County is one of the largest jurisdictions in Maryland with over 1 million residents and has a key role in the dynamic Washington D.C. metropolitan growth area. Ms. Wright also worked for the Montgomery County Planning Department from 1987 to 2008. During this period, she served as the Chief of Countywide Planning, including supervising the Environmental Planning, Transportation Planning and Historic Preservation Sections, as well as serving as Acting Planning Director.

Prior to her appointment as the Montgomery County Planning Director in 2013, Ms. Wright was Chief of the Development Division for the City of Alexandria Department of Planning and Zoning for five years. In this position, she reviewed development proposals throughout the City of Alexandria and shepherded a wide variety of projects – from urban infill to major brownfields reclamation – through the regulatory process and implementation.

Ms. Wright began her career in Texas as the Director of Architectural Design and Redevelopment for the Galveston Historical Foundation in Galveston, Texas. She has degrees in Architecture and Architectural History from Yale University and has spoken at numerous national and regional conferences on a wide variety of planning issues.

Ms. Wright lives in the Cleveland Park neighborhood in Washington D.C., where she is co-chair of the Cleveland Park Historical Society Architectural Review Committee. She is a member of Lambda Alpha and a graduate of ULI Washington’s Regional Leadership Institute.

Show Notes

• Gwen’s Current Situation (00:05:45)
  • Gwen discusses her consulting work, historic preservation projects, and involvement in conferences and classes at Georgetown University.

Origin Story & Education

• Gwen’s Origins and Youth (00:08:25)
  • Gwen talks about her upbringing in suburban Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and her early interest in architecture and historic preservation.
• Interest in Architecture and History (00:12:50)
  • Gwen shares her early fascination with places and spaces, her interest in architectural history, and her experiences at Yale University.
• Architecture and Emotional Impact (00:18:00)
  • Gwen delves into the psychological and emotional impact of great spaces and places, and the intersection of historic and new architecture.

Galveston Historical Foundation

• Transition to Preservation Work (00:24:30)
  • Gwen discusses her transition from studying architecture to working in historic preservation, including her decision to work for the Galveston Historical Foundation.
• Galveston’s Transformation (00:28:10)
  • Gwen describes Galveston’s history, including its response to the 1900 hurricane and the subsequent efforts to revitalize the city’s buildings and neighborhoods.
• The arrival in Galveston (00:31:00)
  • Discussion about the community and medical training in Galveston, reviving the historical foundation, and events on the strand.
• Restoring an old ship (00:32:30)
  • The restoration of an old tall masted ship, the impact on the waterfront, and the growth of the strand.
• Revitalizing residential neighborhoods (00:34:10)
  • Efforts to revitalize residential neighborhoods, including demonstration houses and reinvestment projects.
• Adapting to a new culture (00:35:30)
  • Gwen’s experiences in Galveston, including unique encounters and cultural differences.

Montgomery County, MD Historical Preservation and Planning

• Transition to Maryland (00:42:45)
  • Gwen’s decision to move to Maryland, the job offer as a historic preservation planner, and her initial challenges.
• Lessons from historic preservation (00:49:15)
  • Gwen’s reflections on the lessons learned from working in historic preservation and how they applied to her work in Maryland.
• Building alliances and collaboration (00:49:30)
  • The importance of collaboration, building alliances, and thinking outside the box in the public sector, and the efforts to inspire staff.
• The importance of historic preservation (00:56:15)
  • Gwen discusses the spiritual and philosophical aspects of preserving historic locations and their significance in creating a sense of place.
• Creating a community landmark (00:58:30)
  • Gwen shares her experience and approach in integrating historic buildings into new communities to create a dynamic neighborhood.
• Character and soul of a place (01:03:00)
  • The discussion revolves around the concept of character and soul in historic places and how they evoke emotional and psychological reactions in people.
• Learning from 19th-century suburbs (01:08:15)
  • Gwen talks about the elements that made 19th-century suburbs successful and how those elements can be applied to creating 21st-century suburbs.
• Role of wedges and corridors in planning (01:14:10)
  • The conversation delves into the original planning thesis of wedges and corridors and its evolution into a web of centers and boulevards in the 21st century.
• Structure of planning departments (01:22:00)
  • John inquires about the structure and collaboration of planning departments in the county, particularly the unique bi-county commission, and its historical significance.
• Rural Counties Development (01:23:40)
  • Gwen discusses the development and infrastructure challenges faced by rural counties in Maryland, including the creation of organizations and planning structures.
• County Planning and Government Relationships (01:26:00)
  • Gwen explains the relationship between the planning and parks department and the county council, highlighting the challenges and differences in governance structures.
• Role of Planning Director (01:28:40)
  • Gwen talks about her transition from the chief of countywide planning to the acting planning director, discussing the differences in responsibilities and the challenges faced during that time.
• Challenges in Clarksburg (01:29:00)
  • The discussion revolves around the challenges faced in Clarksburg, including community complaints, construction issues, and the impact on the planning department.
• Learning Planning and Mentors (01:37:50)
  • Gwen shares her learning process in planning, mentioning mentors and her approach to absorbing knowledge from various individuals.