MicroConf On Air

MicroConf Tactics: Coding in 2026 is STILL a Superpower (Even with AI)

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:00:00 +0000

Is learning to code still worth it in 2026?

Rob Walling breaks down what’s actually happening in the industry, why coding is still one of the highest-leverage skills you can learn, and how he’d approach learning to code if he were starting from scratch today.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Mastermind Guide

SaaS Launchpad and “The DNA of a Great SaaS Idea”

Frontend Mentor

Boot.dev

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Signs Your SaaS MVP Is Not Good Enough (nobody teaches this)

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Mar 2026 10:00:00 +0000

In this video, Rob Walling breaks down 6 real reasons your MVP flopped from solving the wrong problem to over-promising what your product can’t yet deliver, and shows you exactly how to fix each one.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf US - Portland - Use Promocode ROB50 for $50 off

Subscribe to the Rob Walling YouTube channel

SaaS Launchpad and “The DNA of a Great SaaS Idea”

The Mom Test

MicroConf Tactics: You're Working on the WRONG Things - here's how to fix it

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 Feb 2026 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling shares the Certainty vs. Uncertainty Framework, the system he’s used to build six companies and invest in over 250 startups to help you stop mistaking “busy” for “effective,” and focus on what truly drives progress.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Europe Tickets are on Sale - Reykjavik, Iceland - Sept 21-23rd, 2026

Episode 720 | How to Prioritize Your Focus (In Both Your Startup and Personal Life)

TinySeed Application are open until 2/17/26

Buy Back Your Time

MicroConf Tactics: I Obsessed Over Product-Market Fit - Here Are the 5 Stages of PMF

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling breaks down the five phases of Product-Market Fit, showing how founders can identify where they are on the spectrum and what specific actions will move them forward.

Most founders think product-market fit is a switch that suddenly flips on, but it’s not!

Links from the Pod

TinySeed Applications Live Q&A- February 11th, 10AM EST

Su bscribe to the MicroConf YouTube Channel

There’s ONLY 5 Ways to Use AI in SaaS (prove me wrong)

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Jan 2026 11:00:00 +0000

Every founder is asking the same question: “Am I falling behind on AI?”

In this video, Rob Walling breaks down the five ways startups are using AI and which ones actually work. He covers everything from using AI as your core product to leveraging it for growth and operations, including real-world examples from SaaS founders.

Can’t find a developer, and now you’re frustrated with the hiring process?

G2i gives you access to over 8,000 pre-vetted engineers ‍‍ - no AI-generated resumes, just real, experienced candidates ready to join your team.

Start your 7-day free trial at https://g2i.co/microconf and mention MicroConf for $1500 off your first invoice!

Links in the pod:

Get Your Tickets for MicroConf Europe 2026

Get Your Tickets for MicroConf US 2026

Use promo code ‘ROB50’ to get $50 off your ticket.

MicroConf Tactics: How to Hire Your First Developer (Avoid These 7 COSTLY Mistakes)

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Jan 2026 11:00:00 +0000

Hiring your first developer or engineer is a huge milestone and it’s easy to make costly mistakes.

In this video, Rob Walling shares the seven most common pitfalls founders face when hiring a developer for the first time, plus expert tips to help you build your startup team with confidence.

Can’t find a developer, and now you’re frustrated with the hiring process?

G2i gives you access to over 8,000 pre-vetted engineers ‍‍ - no AI-generated resumes, just real, experienced candidates ready to join your team.

Start your 7-day free trial at https://g2i.co/microconf and mention MicroConf for $1500 off your first invoice!

Links in the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: The Silent Killer of Startups (And How to Prevent It)

Rob Walling — Wed, 31 Dec 2025 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob Walling shares why building alone is dangerous, what your real options are, and exactly how to surround yourself with other founders who can help you navigate the chaos without losing your mind.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf’s Mastermind Matching Program

Get your free copy of the MicroConf Masterminds Guide

MicroConf Tactics: How TinySeed Helped Harris Grow His SaaS to $500k ARR (in 1 Year)

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 Dec 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling chats with Harris Kenny, founder of OutboundSync, about how he took a low-code MVP and, with seed funding from TinySeed, scaled it into a SaaS business generating over $500K in annual recurring revenue — all in just one year.

Links in the episode:

TinySeed Accelerator Program

OutboundSync

Bonus Coaching Call

TinySeed Tales Season 5

Startups for the Rest of Us Podcast

MicroConf Tactics: How to Perfectly Position Your B2B Brand in 34 Minutes

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Dec 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Unlock the most effective homepage positioning framework used by top-performing SaaS founders. In this video, Anthony Pierri of Fletch PPM breaks down how to craft a homepage that instantly communicates what your product does, who it’s for, and why it matters, boosting clarity, conversions, and customer trust.

Perfect for founders and marketers looking to level up their SaaS website strategy.

Links from the Pod

Follow Anthony on Linkedin

Get your ticket to MicroConf US 2026 | Portland, OR | April 12-14, 2026

MicroConf Events

Fletch PPM

MicroConf Tactics: 5 BORING Decisions That Made Me a Multi-Millionaire

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 Nov 2025 11:00:00 +0000

After 20 years building and exiting SaaS companies, Rob Walling looks back and pinpoints the 5 choices that made all the difference, from launching his first product to bootstrapping and exiting apps for life-changing money.

Links from the Pod

Startups for the Rest of Us Podcast

Join MicroConf Connect

Rob's 10 Best Entrepreneurial Decisions (Full List Here)

MicroConf Tactics: NEVER Make These 6 Mistakes (Lessons from 20 Years in Business)

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 Nov 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling shares 6 founder regrets that didn’t just cost him money, they nearly derailed his business. From invisible mindset traps to avoidable missteps in hiring and decision-making, each one reveals something most founders don’t realize until it’s too late.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Events

MicroConf US Tickets are on Sale

MicroConf Tactics: The BEST Sales Funnel For Your SaaS (new data changed my advice)

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 Oct 2025 10:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob Walling breaks down data-backed strategies to improve your trial funnel and explains why most SaaS founders should rethink freemium vs. free trial. Backed by insights from the nearly 700+ startups who participated in the State of Independent SaaS Report and 200+ of his own investments.

Links from the Pod

2024 State of Independent SaaS Report

MicroConf US 2026 Tickets are on sale!

MicroConf Tactics: Break Through the 7 SaaS Plateaus

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Oct 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Plateaus are the death of SaaS; unless you know how to spot and beat them.

In this talk from MicroConf New Orleans in 2025, Rob Walling shares real data from 192 startups and reveals how to break through the 7 SaaS growth plateaus- including leaky funnels, high churn, lack of leads, and losing product-market fit.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Remote Tickets are on Sale | November 5, 2025

MicroConf Tactics: Why to Avoid B2C SaaS at All Costs

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 Sep 2025 10:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob reveals why selling to consumers (rather than businesses) is so freaking hard. He shares the only B2C SaaS strategy he would ever bet on, after starting 6 companies, investing in 224 SaaS startups, and writing 5 books on building life-changing businesses.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Mastermind Applications are Open

Castos

MicroConf Tactics: Responding to the Brutal Comments on My Recent Video

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 Sep 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Rob read the comments. Every last one of them. 225+ and some were wild. He’s here to break it down, clear the air, and set the story straight.

Watch the video that caused all this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXXRdB3TJI&t=2s

Links from the Pod

Rob's Books

Tinyseed Applications open soon!

MicroConf Tactics: Designing the Perfect SaaS Business (Steal My Checklist)

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Every founder dreams of building the next big SaaS success. But what separates the ideas that just sound good from the ones that truly take off? In this video, Rob Walling shares his personal checklist for the perfect SaaS idea. The more boxes you can check, the higher your chances of success.

Links from the episode:

Get the Free SaaS Launchpad module

MicroConf Tactics: 7 Tempting Startup Ideas I’d NEVER Build (And Why)

Rob Walling — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 10:00:00 +0000

If you're an early-stage founder or just dreaming about launching your own startup, you want to maximize your odds of success. But here’s the thing: not all ideas are created equal. Some are so tempting, so popular, that you'll see them everywhere—but they're actually traps that have burned more founders than can be counted.

In this episode, Rob Walling walks through seven startup ideas he’d never build.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Tactics: 99% of Beginners Don’t Know the Basics of SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 30 Jul 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Want to know the real truth about SaaS? In this video I cover 5 critical SaaS fundamentals that can help you grow 7-figure businesses. There are harsh realities to building a SaaS, but knowing these principles can save you from beginner mistakes.

Links in the episode:

Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube channel

MicroConf Tactics: 33 Minutes of No BS Tactics I Used to Build a $6.6M/Year SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 16 Jul 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Join Peldi Guilizzoni from the MicroConf stage in Dubrovnik, as he details his 7-step journey from maker to entrepreneur. Peldi is the CEO of Balsamiq, and his talk is loaded with tactics that will help you grow business beyond what you can achieve as a single maker. Links in the video: Watch this talk on YouTube Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube channel MicroConf Europe 2025, Istanbul Exit Strategy Finish Big Balsamiq

MicroConf Tactics: Which Business Buyers Will Pay the MOST for YOUR Business

Rob Walling — Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Don't leave millions on the table when you sell – finding the right buyer is crucial for maximizing the value of your life's work. In this video, Rob Walling describes the 6 different types of business buyers and where you can find them.

Links in the episode:

Exit Strategy Book

Discretion Capital

Watch this episode on YouTube

Acquire.com

Flippa

MicroConf Tactics: AI Agents vs SaaS - Who Wins the Future of Software?

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 Jun 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Are AI Agents going to kill SaaS? In this video I explain why SaaS businesses are so resilient, even through times of great disruption. In fact, there are a few ways you can take advantage of the latest AI trends to grow your business stronger.

Links in the episode:

MicroConf’s Mastermind Matching Program

MicroConf Tactics: The Dark Side of Venture Capital (Too Much Money is Bad???)

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 Jun 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Venture Capital can be a great tool for explosive growth, but it's not a fit for all startups. In this video I explain the downsides of VC, and share how most companies should approach their growth and funding.

Watch this video on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/uc85Kg70_Ng

Links in the video:

MicroConf Europe Tickets are on Sale: https://microconf.com/europe

TinySeed: https://tinyseed.com/

TinySeed Program: https://tinyseed.com/program

TinySeed Memo: https://tinyseed.com/thesis

Invest in TinySeed: https://tinyseed.com/invest

MicroConf Tactics: LOW COST Marketing Strategies That Actually Work (from 3x SaaS Founder)

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 May 2025 10:00:00 +0000

You need to be systematic and focused to find growth channels that actually move the needle as a bootstrapper. In this video, I'll cover some of the best, low cost SaaS marketing strategies that have worked in my businesses, and in the businesses I've invested in.

Links in this episode:

SaaS Launchpad: https://saaslaunchpad.co/

TinySeed Applications Open Through Feb 23rd: https://apply.tinyseed.com/

The SaaS Playbook: https://saasplaybook.com/

Invest in TinySeed: https://tinyseed.com/invest

Start Marketing The Day You Start Coding: https://robwalling.com/books#coding

MicroConf Tactics: Your Pricing is WRONG (even Sam Altman Made This Mistake)

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 May 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Incorrectly pricing your SaaS product is the easiest way to accidentally kill your business. I'll tell you how to fix your pricing, how founders fall into the trap of charging too little, and why charging more can catapult your business's growth.

Links in the episode:

MicroConf Remote | May 21: https://microconf.com/remote

Announcing a change in pricing and process: bit.ly/carthookpricing

TinySeed Portfolio: https://tinyseed.com/portfolio

The SaaS Playbook: https://saasplaybook.com/

MicroConf Tactics: The Future of SaaS | 2025 Trends You NEED to Know

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Apr 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling shares 5 predictions for the SaaS and broader startup market in 2025. Some of these represent great opportunity, and others will be big hurdles. Let us know what big disruptions that you see coming that he might have missed!

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Growth Retreat

Episode 735 | The 8 Levels of SaaS Platform Risk (A Rob Solo Adventure)

Linklo

State of Independent SaaS 2024 Report

MicroConf Connect Applications are closing Today April 9th

MicroConf Tactics: 6 SaaS Ideas To Build in 2025 (Before Someone Else Does)...

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Apr 2025 10:00:00 +0000

In this video, Rob reviews six SaaS ideas sourced from Reddit threads. These ideas are unlikely to be worth billions of dollars, but they could grow into your next profitable SaaS business and let you walk away from your day job.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Growth Retreat

Inventory Management for Custom Apparel Business

Integrating Ticketing Systems Across Customers

ERP for small manufacturing facility

Client Portal for a Retail (in person) business

Simple MAM (media asset management)

Museum Cataloging App

Tickets for MC EU 2025 are on Sale Now

MicroConf Tactics: The Ultimate Step-by-Step Hiring Guide for SaaS Founders

Rob Walling — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling speaks from the stage at MicroConf US 2023 to share how to hire your SaaS team. He covers job titles & incentives, hiring paths, and how to fire yourself - all with a focus on bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped companies.

Episode Sponsor:

As a founder, it’s easy to get caught up in the fun of building flashy new features. But failing to build a scalable architecture is a dangerous game.

When your infrastructure can't keep up, you lose customer trust, miss sales, and watch your churn rate soar.

If you need a partner to tackle the hard work of building scalable architecture, you should reach out to our friends at Techstack.

Techstack has been helping US founders build scalable products for over a decade.

Visit tech-stack.com/community to claim one of 10 exclusive spots for MicroConf listeners. You'll get a free discovery session plus 10% off your first month. Head there now before these spots are gone!

Links from the Pod:

Apply to MicroConf's Mastermind Matching Program before March 31st

MicroConf Tactics: Your Pricing is WRONG (even Sam Altman Made This Mistake)

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Mar 2025 10:00:00 +0000

Links from the Pod:

Invest in TinySeed

Announcing a change in pricing and process

MicroConf Connect Applications will open next week from Mar 3-5th. Asia Orangio will be hosting a Connect Live session on March 13th.

MicroConf Tactics: How to Find PROFITABLE Micro SaaS Ideas in 2025

Rob Walling — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 11:00:00 +0000

In this video, Rob interviews Snir Alayof about his stair-step approach to building a portfolio of Micro SaaS apps for the monday.com marketplace. Snir reveals how he explored users' needs and validated potential solutions. He then details how his team launched, refined, and supported these apps to go from $0k to $30k+ MRR in less than a year.

Links from the Pod:

Get your FREE Developer Account

monday app marketplace

Developer Documentation

Apps Developer Community

Get your copy of the the eBook

Follow Snir on LinkedIn

TinySeed Applications are Open until Feb 23rd

MicroConf Tactics: 9 Signs It’s Time to SELL Your Business

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 11:00:00 +0000

When do you know it's time to sell your company? After speaking with hundreds of founders, Rob and Dr. Sherry Walling identified 9 signs that it may be time for an exit. If you've dreamed of selling your business, pay attention to these signs, and strategize your exit.

Links from the Pod:

Back Exit Strategy on Kickstarter

Read a Free Chapter of Exit Strategy

Rich vs. King in the Real World: Why I sold my company

MicroConf Tactics: Startup Founders, Do THIS to Beat Imposter Syndrome

Rob Walling — Wed, 29 Jan 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Many founders struggle with Imposter Syndrome and wonder how to get past it. It often shows up in different forms at the various stages in their founder journeys. Rob shares some of the forms that imposter syndrome takes and offers actionable advice if you are feeling like a fraud.

Episode Sponsor:

As a founder, it’s easy to get caught up in the fun of building flashy new features. But failing to build a scalable architecture is a dangerous game.

When your infrastructure can't keep up, you lose customer trust, miss sales, and watch your churn rate soar.

If you need a partner to tackle the hard work of building scalable architecture, you should reach out to our friends at Techstack.

Techstack has been helping US founders build scalable products for over a decade.

Links from the Pod:

MC US Ticket prices go up on Jan 31st

MicroConf Connect Applications are open until the end of today, Jan 15th

MicroConf Tactics: STOP Building Your Audience (Do THIS Instead)

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 Jan 2025 11:00:00 +0000

If you want to build an amazing SaaS product, building an audience is almost never the best use of your time. Rob shares what to do instead, giving practical tips on how to build a network and the benefits that it can provide your business.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf

The Startups For the Rest of Us

State of Independent SaaS 2024 Report

Ship Fast

MicroConf Tactics: If I Started SaaS in 2024, Here’s My B2B Content Strategy for $1M ARR

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 Jan 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling takes the stage at MicroConf US 2024 in Atlanta to share his framework for B2B SaaS content marketing. After wasting thousands of dollars taking the wrong approach in marketing Drip in the early days, Rob shares how he would apply the 5 stages of customer awareness to B2B SaaS.

Links from the Pod:

Watch the rest of the MicroConf US 2024 Atlanta talks

Solve Your Customer Acquisition Problem

The SaaS Launchpad – Start Free with “The DNA of a Great SaaS Idea”

MicroConf Tactics: How to Make SaaS Enterprise Sales (5 SIMPLE Steps)

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 Dec 2024 11:00:00 +0000

One of the biggest growth levers in your SaaS business is to embrace enterprise sales. Craig Hewitt, founder of Castos, shares how to drive sales so that you're not leaving revenue on the table.

Links from the Pod:

Craig Hewitt (@TheCraigHewitt) | X

Craig's YouTube Channel

Castos

Effective Marketing Starts With the Perfect Customer Persona

MicroConf Masterminds Applications Close on December 4th

MicroConf Tactics: This Pricing Strategy is DISASTROUS (unless...)

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 Dec 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Choosing the right pricing strategy for your bootstrapped SaaS is critical. Freemium can be alluring, but it's not a pricing strategy – it's actually a marketing strategy. In this video, I'll explain why freemium is so tricky, and why you should almost always avoid it.

Links from the Pod:

We are relaunching MicroConf Connect!

Get access to the full 9+ hour course today, The SaaS Launchpad

Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users

Episode 725 | SEO in the Age of AI, Freemium, When Brand Becomes Important, and More Advanced Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez)

MicroConf Mastermind applications are open until December 4th

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Lessons From My MOST SUCCESSFUL Investments in B2B SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this video, I look at my investments across TinySeed to distill six lessons that you can use to inform decisions in your own B2B SaaS. If it sounds like I'm describing your company and you're looking for the right amount of funding and mentorship, apply for TinySeed's Fall 2024 batch.

Episode Sponsor:

This week’s podcast was sponsored by Lemon.io. Cut down on hiring time by working with vetted devs at competitive rates. Get 15% off your first 4 weeks working with their engineers. https://lemon.io/microconf

Links from the Pod:

Apply to TinySeed

State of Independent SaaS

Startups for the Rest of Us YouTube Channel

Episode 729 | 9 Things I’ve Learned Investing in 170+ SaaS Companies

MicroConf Remote goes live on November 20th

MicroConf Tactics: 7 CRUCIAL Things Every SaaS Landing Page Should Have (with examples)

Rob Walling — Wed, 06 Nov 2024 11:00:00 +0000

A great landing page is a tool that you will use to convert your website visitors into paying customers. Tracy shares several key ingredients that you need on your landing page, why they are effective, and show many examples of each.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Mastermind applications are open until November 29th

MicroConf Tactics: How to Find Your FIRST 10 SaaS Customers (6 PROVEN Strategies)

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:00:00 +0000

It's easy to get caught in the trap of building your product before marketing it. I'll show you a repeatable, predictable approach to marketing your SaaS before you even start coding. Following this approach will increase your chances of finding success without relying on luck.

Episode Sponsor:

Techstack

Struggling with tech decisions?

Techstack, with over a decade of experience in startup software development, can help. They specialize in building proof of concepts, launching MVPs without a full team, and filling skill gaps with expert developers who integrate seamlessly.

One client's collaboration with Techstack led to unicorn status in just six years. Whether you're launching an MVP, expanding your team, or optimizing your codebase, Techstack has the expertise to accelerate your tech journey.

Exclusive offer for MicroConf listeners: 10% off your first month of development. The first 10 to reach out also get a free, in-depth tech assessment and expert consultation (a $3,000 value) in development, architecture, infrastructure, or project management.

Don't let tech challenges slow you down. Contact Techstack to supercharge your startup's growth today.

Links from the Pod:

Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users

MicroConf Tactics: 7 Surprising SaaS Trends Every Founder Must Know in 2024

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Oct 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Wish you could look at the metrics of your competitors? This year MicroConf surveyed 700 startups to see what is making them grow fastest, and what's slowing them down. Rob is joined by Asia Orangio to analyze the results of the 2024 State of Independent SaaS Report.

Links from the Pod:

TinySeed Applications Are Open Until Sept 15th

To get your copy of the full report, head to https://www.stateofindiesaas.com

MicroConf Tactics: 5 Small Changes To Improve Your SaaS Product FOREVER

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 Sep 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Do you already have a validated SaaS idea, with some semblance of Product-Market Fit? In this video, Rob shares 5 tactical ways you can take your SaaS to the next level. Refining your pricing, adjusting your signup flow, and improving your onboarding are all powerful levers you can pull to unlock new growth for your SaaS business!

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

State of Independent SaaS 2024 Report

Launch a PROFITABLE SaaS - The SaaS Launchpad is Live!

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Get all the details at https://www.saaslaunchpad.co

Building a startup is hard! What if you could avoid the pitfalls, mistakes, and setbacks that will derail your progress and motivation? I've put everything I know about starting a profitable SaaS into one place. Avoid the mistakes I've seen too many first time founders make.

Get access today to the full 9+ hour course today:

https://www.saaslaunchpad.co

MicroConf Tactics: 8 Niche Problems To Solve with Your Next SaaS Idea

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Aug 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Your next SaaS idea starts with solving a problem. Here are 8 new, niche problems that we've discovered with some explanations for each. If they seem like a good fit for you, check out Rob's 5 PM Pre-Validation framework, and get down to work...

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Episode 628 | The 5 PM Pre-Validation Framework

Apply for TinySeed

On-Prem Version of Google Web Tools

Better Software for Managing a Cleaning Business

Google Scholar for Niches

State of Independent SaaS Report

Affordable Digital Asset Manager (DAM)

AI Software Troubleshooting

Industry Conference Aggregator

iCodeThis for Data Scientists

MicroConf Tactics: How To Plan Your MVP (Minimum Viable Product) in 5 Simple Steps

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:00:00 +0000

If you aren't careful, it's easy to waste time and energy building an MVP, or Minimum Viable Product, for a SaaS idea that no one is willing to pay for. This video lays out the 5 steps you should take to plan your MVP before you start building. It'll help you define your testable hypotheses, guide you on which metrics to consider as you plan and build, and will help you avoid feature bloat in the early days.

Links from the Pod:

How To Create An MVP (Minimum Viable Product) - STEP BY STEP

MicroConf Tactics: 8 B2B Marketing Strategies That Got My Startup to $10 Million (and 1 that FAILED)

Rob Walling — Wed, 31 Jul 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Which marketing strategies are best for growing your B2B startup? Rob chats with Greg Digneo about the marketing strategies he used to drive growth at Time Doctor to over $10 million in ARR. Greg gives practical examples of how his team used these marketing channels and Rob draws on his own experiences from growing Drip, covered in The SaaS Playbook.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Join us in MicroConf Connect

Greg Digneo | LinkedIn

Content Guppy

Time Doctor

MicroConf Tactics: How Ben Chestnut Bootstrapped Mailchimp to a $12 Billion Exit

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 Jul 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Ben Chestnut, co-founder of Mailchimp joins Rob Walling on the stage at MicroConf US 2024 in Atlanta. They discuss Mailchimp's origin as a side project from a web consulting firm, its accidental yet pivotal adoption of the freemium model, and the company's growth to a $12 billion exit.

Ben shares insights on scaling the business, emphasizing the importance of operational excellence and fostering a creative culture. He also reflects on the challenges of serving small businesses versus enterprise clients and the decision not to develop a customer success team.

Links from the Pod:

Join us in MicroConf Connect

Upcoming MicroConf Events

This Is How Apple Rolls

Intuit to Acquire Mailchimp

MicroConf Tactics: 12 Ways to Make Money with CODING

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Jul 2024 10:00:00 +0000

If you're a programmer, your skillset in coding can open the door to entrepreneurship. Whether you dream of building products, teaching others, or starting a SaaS, here are 12 ways that you can start making money. Following the Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping can help you turn your side income into a full-blown business over time.

Links from the Pod:

75+ SaaS Marketplaces

Startups For the Rest of Us Episode 688

Programming With Mosh

Theo - t3․gg

MicroConf Tactics: Vertical SaaS vs Horizontal SaaS - Which is More Profitable?

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 Jun 2024 10:00:00 +0000

If you operate a B2B SaaS company, you typically fit into one of two categories: vertical SaaS or horizontal SaaS. But which category is superior? For those in the early stages of a SaaS venture and unfamiliar with these distinctions, this video will help you decide which direction to go with your SaaS business.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Last Chance to Apply for MicroConf Masterminds!

MicroConf Tactics: Reacting to MOST CONTROVERSIAL Opinions About Startups on X

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Jun 2024 10:00:00 +0000

I asked SaaS founders on X, "What's your most controversial opinion about building startups?"... Watch as I dig through the responses and respond to the wildest ones. Some are spot on, some are, well.... you'll see ;)

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Scholarship Program

Controversial Startup Opinions

MicroConf Tactics: Use This PROVEN Formula to Validate Your Next Startup Idea

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 Jun 2024 10:00:00 +0000

If you're an aspiring founder with a startup idea, learn the precise steps to validate your product effectively and avoid wasting time on the wrong things. By following this proven startup validation framework, you'll ensure that your efforts are focused on building a SaaS product that meets market needs and resonates with your target audience.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

How To Create An MVP (Minimum Viable Product) Step by Step

SFTROU Episode 628

SFTROU Episode 589

Start Small Stay Small by Rob Walling

Deploy Empathy by Michele Hansen

MicroConf Tactics: How To Create An MVP - STEP BY STEP

Rob Walling — Wed, 29 May 2024 10:00:00 +0000

You've got a SaaS product idea — what's next? How do you turn that idea into a Minimum Viable Product (MVP)? This is our step by step roadmap for how to build an MVP, including a unique MVP example that eventually led to a billion-dollar SaaS exit.

Links from the Pod:

Join Us for MicroConf Remote

MicroConf Tactics: 5 Micro SaaS Ideas I Can't Believe No One's Built Yet

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 May 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Will these micro SaaS ideas become your next big SaaS project? I just found some unexplored niches and solutions that have a lot of potential so today I’m sharing 5 of my recent favorites with you. Plus find out how you can stay ahead in the SaaS world with the help of monday.com!

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Get your FREE Developer Account

monday app marketplace

Developer Documentation

Apps Developer Community

App Ideas Directory

Get your copy of the the eBook

MicroConf Tactics: He Built a No Code SaaS Over $1M / Year, Here’s How...

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 May 2024 10:00:00 +0000

If you're considering building a no-code solution for your business, you won't want to miss this insightful interview! Join Chad Sakonchick, the visionary founder of Better Legal, as he shares the remarkable journey of achieving over $1,000,000 in Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) with a no-code SaaS platform.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Join Us for MicroConf Remote

BetterLegal

Bubble

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Amateur Mistakes That TANK SaaS Success Avoid These!

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 May 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Software as a service (SaaS) stands out as one of the most lucrative business models today. If you're aiming to venture into SaaS and establish your startup, it's crucial to avoid these six common mistakes that can hinder your success.

Links from the Pod:

The Startups For the Rest of Us Podcast

Join Us for MicroConf Remote

MicroConf Tactics: How To Choose a Name for Your Business, Startup, Brand, Product

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 May 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Are you trying to choose a name for your business, startup, brand, or product? Naming your business can be challenging because you want something that will not only stand the test of time, but also that you can legally protect!

In this video, I'm diving into essential best practices for business naming to ensure you get it right on the first try. Whether you're seeking SaaS name ideas, brand, domain and trademark tips, or product naming help, this video covers it all, along with the most common naming mistakes.

Links from the Pod:

Hello, My Name Is Awesome

How I Nabbed The .Com for My Bootstrapped Startup Without Spending a Million Bucks

SFTROU Ep. 614

MicroConf Tactics: How This 10X SaaS Developer Decides What NOT To Build

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 Apr 2024 10:00:00 +0000

SaaS developers know how to build software, but do they know what NOT to build? Join me as I discuss this with Derrick Reimer, a 10X software developer...

Derrick Reimer is a seasoned entrepreneur and software developer with a passion for building SaaS products. With a deep understanding of the industry, he successfully bootstrapped and later exited a SaaS business, showcasing his business acumen and determination.

Derrick is also known for his expertise in product development, which he shares through his podcast and as the co-founder of Level. His story is a testament to the power of persistence and innovative thinking in the tech world.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Episode 622 | Making Hard Product Decisions & Growth vs. Profitability with Derrick Reimer

SavvyCal

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Micro SaaS Side Hustles That Can Make An Extra $5k/month

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 Apr 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Need a side hustle before going big on SaaS or do you just want to get some extra cash flow? I've got 6 micro SaaS ideas that might help you earn as much as $5k/month or even more...

Links from the Pod:

Stair Step Approach to Bootstrapping

Customer Onboarding For Salesforce

Credit based billing system

Dependency Outage Autoresponder

Analytics for SupaBase

Squarespace Ecommerce Discount Code Manager

Last Chance to Get Tickets for MicroConf ATL

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Biggest Business Partnership Mistakes We’ve Ever Seen...

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Considering getting a business partner, starting a joint venture, or even just partnering with an investor? Setting up partnerships with your SaaS business can go south fast, so avoid these 6 business partnership mistakes to avoid unnecessary trouble (and lawsuits lol) along the way...

Dr. Sherry Walling is a passionate clinical psychologist, author, and podcast host dedicated to supporting the well-being of individuals and professionals. With expertise in the intersection of psychology and entrepreneurship, she empowers others to navigate challenges, optimize mental health, and thrive in their personal and professional lives.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Dr. Sherry Walling's Channel

Last Chance to Get Tickets for MicroConf ATL

MicroConf Tactics: 4 Big SaaS UX Mistakes Beginners ALWAYS Make

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Have you been implementing these SaaS UX without knowing that it's a big turn-off for most users? Tracy Osborn runs through 4 common UX errors that beginners always make when making a SaaS application. If you've done these before or are planning to make a SaaS application, implement these changes now so that you'll retain more users...

Tracy Osborn, the author of "Hello Web Design," is a prominent figure in the world of web development and design. Her passion for accessible web design led her to create "Hello Web Books," a platform dedicated to simplifying complex tech topics. Tracy has a remarkable talent for breaking down intricate concepts into understandable, actionable steps, making web design approachable for beginners.

Links from the Pod:

Last Chance to Get Tickets for MicroConf ATL

MicroConf Tactics: 7 SaaS Ideas To Build in 2024 (Before Someone Else Does)...

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Mar 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Build these SaaS before they go mainstream in 2024... I'd do it myself if I had the time, but I don't, so here are my predictions for which new SaaS apps will absolutely explode this year.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Marketplaces

Support Ticket System for Clickup

Client Portals for Wix

Architecture Plans Commenting/Review Tool

Venue setup planner for customers

Version Control for No Code

Low-setup product analytics

Bonus Idea

Apply for Director of Marketing and Operations for MicroConf

MicroConf Tactics: "How I Sold My SaaS in An 8-Figure Exit" with Matt Wensing

Rob Walling — Wed, 20 Mar 2024 10:00:00 +0000

Discover how Matt Wensing built to an 8-figure SaaS exit in under 2 years in our SaaS Exit story series. You'll also hear what he wishes he knew earlier on the way to this successful acquisition.

Matthew Wensing, the entrepreneurial mind behind Riskpulse, achieved remarkable success by leading the company to a prosperous acquisition. As the Founder and CEO at Summit, he continues his entrepreneurial journey, pioneering innovative solutions.

Links from the Pod:

Episode 489 | 15 Years to a SaaS Exit (Plus Why Forecasting is Crucial)

Summit

Everstream Analytics (formerly Riskpulse)

MicroConf Remote – Early Stage SaaS Strategies

MicroConf Tactics: Here's Why Your SaaS Side Hustle Isn't Working As Expected

Rob Walling — Wed, 13 Mar 2024 10:20:00 +0000

Struggling to get your side hustle off the ground? Don't make these HUGE beginner mistakes...

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Apply for Director of Marketing and Operations for MicroConf

Episode 685 | 7 Things You Should Never Do (A Rob Solo Adventure)

MicroConf Remote – Early Stage SaaS Strategies

MicroConf Tactics: Every SaaS Founder MUST Know This About Platform Risk in SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In the SaaS business world, understanding platform risk is key for every founder. This BIG risk can bring both opportunities and challenges but it's often the most overlooked part of SaaS success so make sure you watch this video to protect yourself and avoid costly mistakes.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Remote – Early Stage Saas Strategies

MicroConf Tactics: Don't Build SaaS Unless You Can Handle These 7 Things

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Feb 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Starting a SaaS business or trying to scale one? These will make or break your SaaS success...

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together

Apply for Tinyseed Feb 12th through Feb 25th

MicroConf Tactics: She Had a 7-Figure SaaS Exit with MeetEdgar Founder, Laura Roeder

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 11:00:00 +0000

We're unpacking the remarkable journey of Laura Roeder, founder of MeetEdgar. Discover how her SaaS business strategies propelled MeetEdgar to a 7-figure SaaS exit. We'll delve into the strategies behind her success and the innovative approach that set her apart in the competitive tech landscape.

Laura Roeder is the innovative mind behind MeetEdgar, a social media automation platform. As the founder, her visionary leadership propelled the company to success, empowering users to streamline content sharing.

With a passion for entrepreneurship and marketing, Laura's journey began with her expertise in online marketing strategies, later inspiring her to create MeetEdgar. Her dedication continues to revolutionize how businesses manage and optimize their social media presence, making her a trailblazer in the industry.

Links from the Pod:

The Art of Selling Your Business by John Warrillow

Quiet Light

MeetEdgar

Paperbell

Before the Exit by Dan Andrews

Built To Sell

SureSwift Capital

Big Band

Exactly How I Cold Emailed My Way to A Life-Changing Exit (And You Can Too)

Apply for TinySeed Spring 2024

MicroConf Tactics: This ONE Thing Will Grow Your SaaS Faster Than Anything Else

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Grow your SaaS faster with this one simple adjustment. This may seem simple, but it works, and I've seen it work time and time again across many industries. Will you try it?

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Gymdesk

MicroConf Tactics: 5 GENIUS SaaS Ideas I'd Build Myself If I Had Time

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 Feb 2024 11:00:00 +0000

If you're looking for SaaS ideas, this one's for you. I share five genius SaaS (Software as a Service) ideas that I would personally build if I had the chance. If you're looking for inspiration or considering a venture into the SaaS industry, don't miss these brilliant ideas...

Links from the Pod:

Nugget

Join us for the the next MicroConf US

MicroConf Tactics: This Is the SMARTEST SaaS Marketing Strategy I’ve Ever Seen

Rob Walling — Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:00:00 +0000

This might just be the ultimate SaaS marketing strategy. It sets a whole new standard for the industry. Let's explore this new game-changing marketing strategy because I fully believe this is redefining SaaS success...

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz

MicroConf Tactics: How Derrick Reimer Bootstrapped SaaS to a $128,000 Exit

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 Jan 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Are you ready to be inspired by success stories in the world of SaaS? Join us as we dive into the incredible journey of Derrick Reimer, who turned a $128k bootstrap investment into a remarkable SaaS exit. Learn about the strategies, challenges, and key insights that led to his impressive success.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Sponsorships

Quiet Light

Codetree

MicroConf Tactics: The #1 Problem with Running a SaaS Business

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Running a SaaS business can be rewarding, but also difficult. From customer retention to scaling hurdles, this video delves into solutions and strategies to address most SaaS founders common problems...

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Call for Pitches

The State of Indie SaaS Survey

MicroConf Tactics: Do This When Your Work-Life Balance Is OUT OF WHACK

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Is your work-life balance feeling completely out of sync? Learn these practical work strategies to regain control, reduce stress, and prioritize your well-being as a founder. Whether you're overwhelmed with work or struggling to find time for yourself, watch this video for simpler answers to these problems...

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf On Air Podcast

The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together

Dr. Sherry Walling's YouTube Channel

Join us for the the next MicroConf US

MicroConf Recap: Patrick Campbell Bootstrapped ProfitWell to a $200M Exit, Here's How...

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:20:00 +0000

Ever wondered how to bootstrap a company to a profitable multimillion dollar exit? Patrick Campbell, founder of ProfitWell, shares his path of building a successful SaaS company without external funding or venture capital - and how he was able to sell it for $200,000,000 in just a few years - in today's special SaaS success case study episode.

Links from the Pod:

Patrick Campbell | Twitter

ProfitWell

Paddle

Pricing Page Teardown

MicroConf Tactics: 5 SaaS Ideas You Can Build as a SOLO Founder

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Dec 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Looking to start your own software (SaaS) business? These SaaS ideas are perfect for solo founders. From project management tools to niche industry solutions, I'll discuss these potential SaaS products to help you kickstart your entrepreneurial journey with your first SaaS startup...

Links from the Pod:

Pat Walls (@thepatwalls) | X

SponsorLeads

MicroConf Tactics: How To Find a Cofounder for your SaaS Startup in 8 Simple Steps

Rob Walling — Wed, 20 Dec 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Are you struggling to find a cofounder for your startup? In this video, I'll guide you through the 8 steps to help you find a reliable cofounder for your SaaS startup or business. These practical startup tips and strategies will ensure you find your perfect cofounder match! Make sure you stick around to the end to learn the biggest question you should ask yourself before looking for a co-founder.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: Bootstrapped vs Funding: Which Is Better for Your Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:44:00 +0000

Struggling to decide between bootstrapping or seeking funding like venture capital, investment rounds, seed rounds, or something else to get your startup off the ground? In this video, I discuss the pros & cons of both approaches. Discover the advantages of self-sufficiency with bootstrapping SaaS, and the potential growth opportunities that come with SaaS funding instead.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Apply to TinySeed

MicroConf Tactics: Remote Work Is Dying - Here's Why That's Good for Founders

Rob Walling — Wed, 06 Dec 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Is the era of remote work coming to an end? In this video, I delve into the reasons why working from home is dying and reveal why it could be a positive turn for entrepreneurs and business owners. I also discuss how SaaS founders stand to benefit from these changes.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

Startups for the Rest of Us Podcast

MicroConf Tactics: We Accidentally DELETED All Our Customers Credit Cards

Rob Walling — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Have you ever messed up in your SaaS business? If you did, would you know how to handle it? We found ourselves in this exact situation this video reveals how we found out, how we fixed things, exactly what we did to improve our data security, and how we used this big mistake as an opportunity to improve all our SaaS sales and systems tenfold.

Links from the Pod

MicroConf US - Atlanta

MicroConf.com/Sell

GlitchSecure

MicroConf Tactics: 7 AI SaaS Ideas You Can Easily Start This Year

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 11:47:00 +0000

Wondering how to get into AI SaaS? In this video, I explore innovative SaaS ideas that leverage artificial intelligence. Whether you're a tech enthusiast or a startup entrepreneur, this video provides valuable information to kickstart your SaaS business in the realm of AI.

Episode Sponsor

Links from the Pod

Call for Pitches

MicroConf Local | Austin

8 AI Nightmares & ChatGPT Cautionary Tales That All Founders Should Know About

Check out these AI blog articles

What SaaS founders need to know about artificial intelligence

MicroConf Tactics: Ask Yourself This BEFORE You Start Building SaaS Products

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Wondering where to begin with your SaaS startup? Starting a business and diving into entrepreneurship can be exciting and a bit overwhelming. So, make sure to ask yourself this question before you start building SaaS products. Knowing the answer to this question will help keep your vision strong while building and launching a SaaS product.

Links from the Pod:

Big Enough by Lee Lefever

The 4-Hour Workweek

ScrapingBee | Twitter

MicroConf Upcoming Events

The State of Independent SaaS Survey

MicroConf Tactics: I Discovered the Ultimate Cheat Code for SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Want shortcuts for SaaS success? Well, I discovered 4 SaaS cheat codes that will help up level your SaaS business. Don't miss out on what took me 15 years to discover. Build your startup with these now!

Episode Sponsor

Links from the Pod

MicroConf Local | Austin

MicroConf Remote | Early Stage Marketing

MicroConf Tactics: Should You Beta Test Your SaaS or Go Straight to Market?

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Wondering whether to beta test your SaaS or go straight to market? In this video, I'll share with you the pros & cons of SaaS beta testing and direct market launches for your software products to help you make the right decision.

Links From The Pod

MicroConf Remote: Early Stage SaaS Marketing

MicroConf Tactics: 7 Things SaaS Founders MUST Prepare for in the Age of AI

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 10:00:00 +0000

How are you going to stay ahead of AI or build it into your SaaS business? In the rapidly evolving era of AI, SaaS founders face unique challenges to ensure the success of their startup. This video explores 7 things SaaS founders should prepare for...

Episode Sponsor:

Lemon Hire

As a founder your plate is full. So when you have to hire devs, there’s no time to search for that perfect culture-fit, get-things-done developer. Lemon.io’s new product, Lemon Hire saves founders time by connecting them with a pipeline of 80K+ senior engineers. Each dev is filtered through a 4-step vetting process, available to interview within 48 hours of choosing, and backed by a 30-day replacement guarantee.

Find your great-fit candidates fast with Lemon Hire. Claim a special discount for our fans. Visit https://lemon.io/hire/, sign up, and mention “MicroConf” to receive $2000 off your first hire.

Links From The Pod:

8 AI Nightmares & ChatGPT Cautionary Tales That All Founders Should Know About

What SaaS founders need to know about artificial intelligence

MicroConf Tactics: I Raised $108K in 30 Days with This Strategy

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:00:00 +0000

I've started many successful SaaS companies in my career, but now I'm revealing how I raised $108K on Kickstarter in just a couple weeks as part of my latest book release - The SaaS Playbook. Here's how I used Kickstarter to raise over $100k fast...

Episode Sponsor

Lemon.io

Links From The Pod

Start Small Stay Small

Order The SaaS Playbook

Kickstarter Landing Page

MicroConf Tactics: #1 Mistake No-Code SaaS Founders Make - Don't Build Without THIS

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:45:00 +0000

Considering building your SaaS business with no code SaaS apps? Make sure you know the risks. Choosing a no code platform for your SaaS startup can be awesome, but it doesn't come without risks. Watch this video for the #1 mistake no code SaaS founder make so you don't fall into the trap!

Links From The Pod

Bubble Pricing Announcement

Ab Advany | Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: 7 App Ideas That Will Make a Developer VERY Wealthy This Year

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 Oct 2023 10:00:00 +0000

SaaS ideas are helpful... but here are 7 new APP ideas for developers that will make whoever builds them very wealthy this year. In this video I'm sharing some of my favorite software ideas inspired by our friends over at Nugget.one.

These SaaS opportunities won't disappoint, but act fast before someone else does...

Links From The Pod

MicroConf US Tickets

Nugget.one

MicroConf Tactics: AI, ChatGPT, OpenAI - 5 Things SaaS Founders MUST Know

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Sep 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Worried AI is going to replace your job or put you out of business? Where exactly is artificial intelligence going to take us? There are so many misconceptions about this, so here are 5 things every SaaS founder / app developer should know about AI right now...

LINKS FROM THE POD

MicroConf Tactics: We Got HACKED... Here's What I Learned

Rob Walling — Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:00:00 +0000

We got hacked and our IPs were blacklisted! These experienced hackers almost cost us millions in revenue because of one cybersecurity loophole, so here are 5 lessons I learned from this scary experience in hopes it helps you avoid the same...

EPISODE SPONSOR

LINKS FROM THE POD

6: The Art of Selling Your Business

The Future of MicroConf

Rob Walling — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 18:00:00 +0000

Whether you're a long-time supporter or a new member of our crew of misfits, you know we're all about empowering bootstrapped SaaS entrepreneurs.

For nearly a decade, we've been fueling the permissionless entrepreneurship movement that's gripped founders worldwide - and we're nowhere close to finished.

Our next big leap is coming, and you won't want to miss it.

If you want to get the inside scoop, and to keep up to date as we roll out all of these offerings, head over to https://www.futureofmicroconf.com/.

MicroConf Tactics: 12 Books EVERY SaaS Founder Should Read This Year.

Rob Walling — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 10:00:00 +0000

If you're a SaaS, tech or app founder - these 12 books are a must read. Which ones would you add to this list?

All 12 Books:

1: Traction

2: Founding Sales

3: The Mom Test

4: Hello Web Design

5: Who

7: The 1-Page Marketing Plan

8: Buy Back Your Time

9: Obviously Awesome

10: The SaaS Playbook

11: Deploy Empathy

12: Zero to Sold

LINKS FROM THE POD:

The Future of MicroConf

TinySeed Applications

MicroConf Tactics: I Turned $31k into $1,000,000 Flipping This SaaS Product

Rob Walling — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:56:00 +0000

Rob Walling turned $31k into $1M after flipping this SaaS product. Here's how he did it...

Episode Sponsor:

LINKS FROM THE POD:

The Future of MicroConf

TinySeed Applications

Startups For the Rest of Us | Ep 602

MicroConf Tactics: 8 Things New SaaS Developers Need To Know on DAY 1

Rob Walling — Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Whether you're a beginner developer or expert developer building SaaS tools and apps, this is a MUST watch video!

You may have built websites and clients projects but SaaS is its own animal. It's challenging and complicated but these 8 "need to know" things will help your building and scaling process go much smoother.

LINKS FROM THE POD:

The Future of MicroConf

TinySeed Applications

MicroConf Tactics: SOC 2 Compliance: Everything Startup Founders Need to Know

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:00:00 +0000

What is SOC 2? You need this if you're going after enterprise sales! For SaaS startups, SOC2 compliance is essential to establishing trust with customers and investors. Use this SOC 2 compliance checklist to get started.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from Pod:

Ruben Gamez | Twitter

Signwell

MicroConf SOC2 Checklist

70 SaaS Marketplaces to Build an Step One Business

MicroConf Tactics: If You Got Fired During Big Tech Layoffs, Do This...

Rob Walling — Wed, 16 Aug 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Were you a part of the tech layoffs and wondering where to go from here? Listen to this episode to explore how you can become more self sustaining so you don't have to rely on big tech companies to pay your salary. If you got fired during big tech layoffs, this is what to do next...

LINKS IN POD:

MicroConf Tactics: Every Founder MUST Know These SaaS Metrics to Grow

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Aug 2023 10:00:00 +0000

These are the most important SaaS sales and marketing metrics that every founder must track! These conversion metrics - like MRR, ARR, CAC, churn rate, ACV and expansion revenue among a few others - will help you take your startup to the next level when tracked properly.

LINKS FROM THE POD

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Micro SaaS Ideas You Can Steal

Rob Walling — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Starting a SaaS as a side hustle or wanting to make it full time, but still unsure what SaaS business idea to go with? Here are 6 Micro SaaS ideas that you can steal.

Episode Sponsor

LINKS FROM THE POD

Nugget.one

MicroConf Tactics: How To Position Your SaaS Brand for Massive Growth in 2023

Rob Walling — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Want to grow your SaaS this year but unsure how to position your brand for better results? These SaaS positioning strategies will help set your SaaS brand up for massive growth in 2023.

LINKS FROM THE POD:

Watch this on YouTube

MicroConf Tactics: No Code SaaS - Is It Real or All Hype?

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 Jul 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Don't know how to code but have a great idea for a startup? You may have heard of no code SaaS - but is it real or all hype? Watch now to learn the pros and cons of no code SaaS and the ideas no code is great for.

Episode Sponsor

Links from the Pod

Watch this Video on YouTube

MicroConf Tactics: How to Build SaaS from Scratch in 8 Simplified Steps

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Looking at starting a SaaS business but not sure where to start? Growing a startup from scratch doesn't have to be so hard that you lose excitement and burn out fast. Here are 8 simplified steps on how to build a SaaS from scratch.

Links from the Pod

Watch this Video on YouTube

MicroConf Tactics: Turn Your SaaS Side Hustle into a Full-Time Gig in 2023

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Want your side hustle to make more money and go full time? This is how to turn you SaaS side hustle into a full-time gig in 2023.

Episode Sponsor

Links from the Pod

Watch this Video on YouTube

MicroConf Tactics: SaaS Ideas To Build Right Now That Will Make You $10k+ MRR

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Looking for more SaaS ideas? Here are some to build right now to start generating $10k+ MRR. Finding SaaS opportunities isn't always the easiest. I'm happy to be able to give you some simple SaaS ideas in this video.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: Secret Way To Make An Extra $10k+ in MRR (SaaS Cheat Code)

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Make thousands more in monthly recurring revenue and by using this SaaS cheat code. This is our favorite way to generate more revenue even when you're not bringing in more customers.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

SaaS Pricing Models Explained in 5 Minutes

MicroConf Recap: Quiet Light Brokerage Answers Audience Questions

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Jun 2023 10:00:00 +0000

In this Q&A session from MicroConf US 2023, a team from Quiet Light Brokerage, including Chuck Mullins, Jon Hainstock, and Chris Guthrie, answer attendee questions about selling, and preparing to sell, a B2B SaaS business.

They also talk about their 4 pillars of business value when it comes to selling a business.

Thanks to our partner Quiet Light for being a MicroConf headline partner!

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: Do This Now To Recession-Proof Your SaaS Business

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Wondering how to recession proof your SaaS business? Here are 7 things to do right now to protect your cash flow, profit margins, investments and revenue in 2023.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Podcast:

Get the slides here

MicroConf Tactics: 8 Major Opportunities to use ChatGPT in your SaaS

Rob Walling — Wed, 31 May 2023 10:00:00 +0000

ChatGPT is an Open AI tool you need to check out! Here are 8 ways you can use ChatGPT in your SaaS or startup operations. These major opportunities can help with speed, copywriting, basic coding, customer support, knowledge bases and more.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: 6 Signs It's Time To Move On from a Failed Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 May 2023 10:00:00 +0000

"Should I quit my startup?" Choosing to close a business is never easy but it may be time for a fresh start. Here are 6 signs it's time to move on from a failed startup.

Episode Sponsor:

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Refresh Episode 69: Predictable Growth: Engineer your way past growth plateaus with 9 revenue accelerators

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 May 2023 17:10:00 +0000

Struggling to grow your SaaS? In this talk from MicroConf Europe 2022, Marc Thomas, Head of Growth at Powered By Search, shares hard-earned lessons from scaling his own startup and helping hundreds of other SaaS companies achieve rapid growth.

Marc lays out his Predictable Growth framework, identifying 9 essential levers for success including attracting high-quality leads, building authority, optimizing your sales funnel, engaging website visitors, and boosting conversion rates.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Europe - Tickets are on sale now!

Watch this talk on YouTube

Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube Channel

MicroConf Tactics: 7 SaaS Ideas To Build In 2023

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 May 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Launching a SaaS business in 2023 and still looking for an idea? Well, here are 7 SaaS ideas to build in 2023! These are new SaaS ideas that I am surprised no one has built yet so much sure to take advantage of these ideas now.

Episode Sponsor:

Lemon.io

Links from the Pod:

The 5 P.M. Idea Validation Framework

Nugget.one

MicroConf Tactics: Break Through ANY SaaS Revenue Plateau In 4 Simple Steps

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 May 2023 10:00:00 +0000

Plateauing in your business? Break through any SaaS revenue plateau with this simple solution, plus prevent future revenue plateaus with a quick calculation. Troubleshooting and proactively preventing your next plateau will happen you will reduce churn and increase revenue.

Links from the Pod:

https://microconf.com/latest/ai-nightmares-and-chatgpt-cautionary-tales

MicroConf Tactics: AI Nightmare?! ChatGPT BLEW UP This SaaS App in the WORST Way

Rob Walling — Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:00:00 +0000

ChatGPT, GPT-4, OpenAI and all the rest... You've no doubt heard of the AI tools rolling out. But is it all good? This real life case study reveals the dangers of AI, how AI tools can either help or hurt your business growth and SaaS apps or services, and what to do moving forward...

Check out this blog post with 7 more AI nightmares:

Links from the Pod:

OpenCage Blog Post

OpenCage Twitter

Hacker News Post

Back The SaaS Playbook on Kickstarter

MicroConf Tactics: I Built a Multi-Million Dollar Startup With $0 Venture Capital

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob Walling recounts building a multi-million dollar startup with $0 venture capital... Rob walks you through his journey of building Drip, and his step-by-step process for growing a profitable startup, plus how to build it from Day 1 so it actually sells.

Listen to the end to hear his BIGGEST regret!

Links from the Pod:

Back The SaaS Playbook on Kickstarter

MicroConf Tactics: If You Got Fired During Big Tech Layoffs, Do This...

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Apr 2023 10:00:00 +0000

If you've been laid off from a big tech company, you may be considering starting your own business. But is it the right move for you? In this podcast, we'll explore the reasons to start a business, reasons not to, and four tips to increase your chance of success.

Links from the Pod:

Back The SaaS Playbook on Kickstarter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 68: From Idea to Billion Dollar SaaS Business with Jason Cohen

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 Apr 2023 10:00:00 +0000

In this podcast, recorded at a MicroConf Local in Austin, Jason Cohen sits down with Rob Walling for a fireside chat at the WP Engine headquarters. The cover a range of topics including:

Finding Product Market Fit
Understanding how customers think about pricing and how to get them to pay more
Identifying the Right Metrics
Using Excitement as a Reason to Do Something

If you haven't seen Jason's talk, Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business , on our YouTube Channel, you should.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: Got Your First 100 Customers, Now What? Scale SaaS Past 1,000 Customers

Rob Walling — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 10:00:00 +0000

You got your first 100 customers, now what? How do you continue getting customers and keep them long term to reduce churn? Get more SaaS users with these simple strategies for scaling SaaS beyond 1000 customers.

Links from the Pod:

Get your ticket for MicroConf Remote 6.0

MicroConf Refresh Episode 67: The New Way of Marketing: Mastery of Zero-Click Content with Amanda Natividad

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:00:00 +0000

In this audio from MicroConf Remote 5.0, Amanda Natividad, VP of Marketing at Sparktoro, discusses the how content marketing trending more and more toward zero-click content.

Amanda gives away 3 methods for creating zero-click content from your existing long form content.

Links from the Pod:

Amanda Natividad | Twitter

Sparktoro

Get the slides from this talk

MicroConf Tactics: Will The Silicon Valley Bank Collapse Affect Your Startup?

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 Mar 2023 10:00:00 +0000

The crash of Silicon Valley Bank has a lot of founders on edge, and rightly so!

While the FDIC and the Federal Reserve have announced that they will step in and guarantee all deposits, even those above the FDIC threshold, there's still much to be sorted out in the coming days.

In this audio pulled from a YouTube livestream on Monday, March 13th, Rob Walling and Einar Vollset, co-founders of TinySeed, a startup accelerator, will be going live for about 30 minutes to chat about the impact this news will have on startups, why the guarantee of deposits was necessary, and what steps you might consider to protect your startup going forward.

Links from the Pod:

Watch the replay of this livestream on YouTube

MicroConf US

Get your ticket for MicroConf Remote 6.0

Rob Walling | Twitter

Einar Vollset | Twitter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 66: Capterra as an Acquisition Channel with Eran Galperin

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Mar 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In this audio from MicroConf Remote 5.0, Eran Galperin, founder of GymDesk, chats with Rob Walling about leveraging Capterra to find more customers for your SaaS app.

Links from the Pod:

Eran Galperin | Twitter

GymDesk

Get the slides from this talk

GymDesk's Capterra Page

MicroConf Refresh Episode 65: Battle Tested Methods for Getting More Signups Without More Marketing with Gia Laudi

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 Mar 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Remote 5.0, Gia Laudi of Forget the Funnel walks through using customer surveys and Jobs to Be Done interviews to discover how your product helps your best customers, so that you can find more of those ideal customers.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Remote 6.0: March 21 + 22, 2023 | 11:00 AM - 12:30 PM ET

Gia Laudi | Twitter

Forget the Funnel

Get the slide deck

MicroConf Refresh Episode 64: The 7-Figure To Do List: 31 Tactics To Level-Up Your Business In 60 Minutes or Less with Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 Feb 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth US 2022, Rob Walling walks through 31 quick tactics for that get outsized results in your business. The tactics are broken up into the following categories:

Growth
Product
Productivity
Operations

Get the slide deck here:

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf US 2023

Get the slide deck here

Watch this talk with slides on YouTube

Rob Walling I Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: If I Had To Start Over, Here's 3 Steps I'd Take to $1M+ Revenue

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 11:00:00 +0000

If Rob was starting over today, here's 3 steps he'd take to $1M+ revenue.

In this audio from a recent YouTube video, Rob breaks down his stair step approach to bootstrapping a SaaS business. Check out his original article here: The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping

Links from Pod:

List of SaaS Marketplaces

Episode 612 of Startups for the Rest of Us

Watch the video version on YouTube

MicroConf Tactics: Validate Your SaaS Idea FAST (Step-by-Step SaaS Validation Process)

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In under a month, you can validate your SaaS idea with this step-by-step SaaS idea validation process. This process is the perfect way to gather traffic and to see how many people are going to be interested in your product so you can decide if your idea is worth pursuing.

In this audio pulled from a recent YouTube video, Rob Walling explains the process he would take to validate a new SaaS idea.

Links from this episode

Watch the video version on YouTube

MicroConf US 2023- Denver, CO April 16-18

MicroConf Refresh Episode 63: Ending Well: The Complex Psychology of Exiting Your Company with Dr. Sherry

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 Feb 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf US 2022, Dr. Sherry Walling gives a keynote about the hard, less often talked about aspects of exiting a business.

It's important to mentally prepare for an selling your business and she delivers a masterclass on going through the process with grace.

Want to attend the next MicroConf to see talks like this? Head to microconf.com/events

Links from this pod:

Dr. Sherry Walling I Twitter

Bonus Episode: Mastermind Matching Applications Are Open

Rob Walling — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Mastermind Matching applications are now open.

Whether you are in the process of validating your SaaS idea and looking for product-market fit to finding a scalable marketing channel, or maybe you are looking for an extra dose of accountability and support as you grow the company, joining a mastermind can help.

With hundreds of successful matches under our belt, we have brought together founders from all walks of life, from over 50 countries across 20 time zones, with a collective $150M+ in ARR.

To do this, we focus on a number of key data points to get a feel for each entrepreneur’s experience level, expectations, work and personality styles, and other key criteria that allow us to make informed matches, including:

Location
Time zone
Language
Experience Level
Current Revenue Level
Goals
Skill Set
Industry served
Whether or not this is your first business
If you already have 1 or more established businesses (like an agency) and building a SaaS as a 2nd business, etc.

We’ve also made some big updates to the content in our mastermind program, including adding a series of 3 mentor sessions to tackle topics and challenges you are likely to experience based on where you are currently at with your business. These mentor sessions range from how to structure and get the most value out of your mastermind to mastering customer interviews, building a marketing flywheel, and hiring and onboarding your first few employees.

For those of you who sign up for a mastermind and are doing more than $500k in ARR, you’ll be invited to attend three virtual office hours with Rob Walling, Co-Founder of TinySeed + MicroConf & Einar Vollset, Co-Founder of TinySeed.

Links from the Show:

MicroConf Masterminds

MicroConf Tactics: B2B vs B2C SaaS - Which Is More Profitable?

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Should you build a B2B or B2C business model? What are the main differences between B2B and B2C SaaS?

In this audio pulled from a recent YouTube video, Rob explains how business-to-business and business-to-consumer SaaS models work and which will make you the most profit... Choose wisely.

Links from the pod:

MicroConf US 2023- Denver, CO April 16-18

MicroConf Refresh Episode 62: Baking Marketing into Your Product Roadmap

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf US 2022, Patty Radford Henderson gives an attendee talk about how to integrate marketing into the different phases of building a business.

Want to attend the next MicroConf? Head to microconf.com/events

Links from this pod:

MicroConf Tactics: SaaS Marketing Strategies Your Competitors Use To Crush You

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Jan 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Don't know what marketing tactics to use? Your competitors do and the are crushing you because of it.

In this audio from a recent YouTube video, Rob walks through 7 ways for marketing SaaS to add to your arsenal if you're not using these yet.

Links from the pod:

MicroConf Accountability Challenge

MicroConf Refresh Episode 61: Level Up Your Company with Community with Anna Maste

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 11:00:00 +0000

In her talk at MicroConf Growth US last year, Anna Maste walks through how she and her mother used community to grow Boondockers Welcome.

Anna shares the 3 things that fostered amazing growth, even without a big marketing budget.

Links from the pod:

Anna Maste I Twitter

MicroConf Growth US 2023: Denver, CO | April 16 - 18, 2023

MicroConf Tactics: The #1 Reason Why Startups Fail - Don't Make This Mistake!!

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Why do so many startups fail?

In this audio, pulled from a recent YouTube video, Rob chats about the #1 reason he sees startups fail. It’s a relatively simple one to avoid, so don't make this common mistake! Listen until the end to also find out the #2 reason startups fail so you can avoid that too.

Links from the pod:

MicroConf Refresh Episode 60: How to Craft a Story that Sells with April Dunford

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Dec 2022 11:00:00 +0000

In her talk at MicroConf Growth US this year, April Dunford breaks down how to help your prospects buy your products. She explores how difficult it is for buyers to buy products, especially if they don't purchase your type of product on a regular basis. Your job is to help your customers make sense out of your offering, and to be a guide to help them purchase.

April is the author of Obviously Awesome, a solid book that helps founders nail their positioning.

Links from the pod:

April Dunford I Twitter

Obviously Awesome

MicroConf Tactics: 7 NEW SaaS Ideas You Can Steal

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob lays out 7 SaaS ideas you can build right now + 1 bonus idea at the end.

This audio was pulled from a video on our YouTube Channel. Subscribe to the channel to catch future ideas as soon as they come out.

Links from the podcast

Subscribe to the YouTube Channel

MicroConf Refresh Episode 59: Supporting Our Team in Ukraine While Building 4 Startups and 5 Client Apps

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 Dec 2022 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth US 2022, Andrew Amann, CEO of NineTwoThree Studio, shares how he and his team reacted to the news of war starting in Ukraine. Supporting 25 team members based in Ukraine while also keeping up with the client work was no small task.

Links from the pod

Andrew Amann | Twitter

NineTwoThree Studio

MicroConf Growth | Denver, CO | April 16 - 18, 2023

MicroConf Tactics: 5 Secrets to Hiring Top Tier Talent for Your Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 30 Nov 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Looking to build a SaaS team full of superstars? Hire right the first time with these 5 secrets to hiring top tier talent.

Hiring for your startup can be a game changer with how far and fast you can grow.

In this pod, we share the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos.

LINKS FROM THE POD:

MicroConf Refresh Episode 58: How to Go To Market Across Many Verticals

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:00:00 +0000

What happens when you've grown and it's clear you've got many market segments? How do you balance them all? Or do you say "screw it" and niche somehow?

In this talk from MicroConf Growth 2022, Asia Orangio of Demand Maven breaks down how you can bring more focus and zen to your GTM efforts — especially if your product has many use cases and verticals.

Links from this pod:

Asia Orangio I Twitter

Demand Maven

MicroConf Tactics: 11 Ways Startups Waste Their Money

Rob Walling — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Stop wasting money! These SaaS startup mistakes can be avoided.

In this pod, we share the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos. Rob outlines the top 11 ways he see startups waste their money in the early stages so you can avoid the same costly mistakes.

Links from the Pod:

ScrapingBee is now over $1.5 million in ARR.

Rob Walling I Twitter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 57: A Conversation with MailChimp Co-Founder Ben Chestnut

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Rob Walling recently caught up with Ben Chestnut, Co-Founder of Mailchimp at our MicroConf Local Atlanta event.

Ben and Rob chat about the founding story of Mailchimp, bootstrapping Mailchimp to $12 billion, and the decision to sell to Intuit.

They discuss everything from areas of focus as a founder, making freemium work, overcoming catastrophic server crashes, and the power of having a great team.

Enjoy this wide ranging talk with Ben Chestnut!

Episode Sponsor

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/microconf

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for listeners of MicroConf On Air, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/microconf

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: How To Distribute Startup Equity Fairly for Founders

Rob Walling — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Distributing startup equity among founders can be tricky. You want to make sure each startup founder is getting compensation for everything they’re doing.

In this pod, we share the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos. Rob talks about how to distribute startup equity fairly for founders.

Episode Sponsor

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/microconf

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

And for listeners of MicroConf On Air, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/microconf

Links from the Pod:

Subscribe to the MicroConf YouTube Channel
View this video on YouTube
MicroConf Connect
The Slicing Pie Handbook by Mike Moyer
Rob Walling | Twitter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 56: From Failure to Five Figure MRR - The 6 Mistakes We Learned From Our First Failed Startup - Pierre de Wulf

Rob Walling — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth Europe 2021, Pierre de Wulf of ScrapingBee walks through 6 key mistakes he made on his journey from a failed startup to building a profitable SaaS.

Episode Sponsor

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io/microconf

The competition for incredible engineers and developers has never been more fierce. Lemon.io/ helps you cut through the noise and find great talent through its network of engineers in Europe and Latin America.

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

When it comes to hiring, the time it takes to write your job description, list the position, review resumes, schedule interviews, and make an offer can take weeks, if not months. With Lemon.io/, you can cut down on a lot of that time by tapping into their wide network of developers who can get started in as early as a week.

And for subscribers of MicroConf On Air, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/microconf

Links from the pod:

ScrapingBee

MicroConf Europe Tickets- Malta I Nov 15-17, 2022

Pierre de Wulf I Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: What Is Churn & How To Reduce It In Your Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 Oct 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Churn can make or break your startup. In this pod (pulled from one of our YouTube videos), Rob Walling answers the question "what is churn?" and goes into detail on different ways to reduce it in your startup.

Episode Sponsor

Find your perfect developer or a team at Lemon.io

They take care of the vetting, interviewing, and testing of candidates to make sure that you are working with someone who can hit the ground running.

And for listeners of MicroConf On Air, you can get 15% off your first 4 week contract with a developer by visiting lemon.io/microconf

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Refresh Episode 55: Catching Up with Rand Fishkin

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Oct 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this Refresh Episode, Rob Walling chats with Rand Fishkin at our recent MicroConf Local event in Seattle.

They chat about the ups and downs of building (and selling) Moz, building SparkToro, and yes, they even dig into a bit of D&D.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Local: Atlanta October 18, 2022

MicroConf Local: Austin November 30, 2022

Rand Fishkin I Twitter

Lost and Founder

Rob Walling I Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: The Best Customer Acquisition Funnels for a SaaS Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 Oct 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Customer acquisition funnels for SaaS startups work differently than other businesses.

In this pod (pulled from one of our YouTube videos) Rob Walling breaks down everything you need to know about acquiring customers for your SaaS product. From customer acquisition cost (CAC) to customer acquisition strategy, make sure you're doing the right things to get more customers.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Tactics: 16 Lessons I Learned Building a Million Dollar Startup

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Building or scaling a startup? Here are 16 lessons I learned building a million dollar software business.

This is the audio from one of our YouTube videos, in which Rob talk about growing a startup to over $1M in revenue. It isn’t an easy feat, but by learning these lessons faster and avoiding these costly beginner mistakes, growing your SaaS or software business wont be as hard!

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Refresh Episode 54: Hitting Reset at Meet Edgar with Laura Roeder

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth Europe 2021, Laura Roeder talks through making hard decisions and restructuring MeetEdgar.

Laura went on to sell MeetEdgar at the end of 2021.

Links from the pod:

MicroConf Europe Tickets- Malta I Nov 15-17, 2022

Laura Roeder I Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: SaaS Metrics - The Best Guide to Software as a Service KPIs

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:00:00 +0000

You need to be tracking these specific SaaS metrics in your business if you want it to succeed and grow!

This is the audio from one of our YouTube videos that goes over the essential key performance indicators (aka KPIs) that you need to know in order to improve your SaaS product metrics.

From churn rate to LTV to CAC and more, let's go through the SaaS KPIs that matter most.

Links from the Pod:

MicroConf Europe Tickets- 15-17 November, 2022 I Malta

Watch the original video here

Rob Walling | Twitter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 53: A Brief Primer on Pricing with Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth Europe 2021, Rob Walling gives a wide ranging talk on all things pricing.

Topics covered include:

Expansion Revenue
ARPC, not LTV
The Impact of Raising Prices
How to Raise Prices

Links from the pod:

Watch the video version of this talk

MicroConf Europe Tickets- Malta I Nov 15-17, 2022

Rob Walling I Twitter

MicroConf Tactics: Micro SaaS Products - Are They Actually Profitable?

Rob Walling — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Should you build a micro SaaS product? And will your micro SaaS idea actually be profitable?

This pod is from a recent video on our YouTube Channel in which Rob walks you through everything you need to know about new and emerging micro SaaS business models so you can decide if it's right for you!

Links from the pod:

MicroConf Europe in Malta- November 15-17, 2022

68 B2B SaaS Marketplaces Article from RocketGems.com

Watch the video version of this talk on YouTube

Rob Walling I Twitter

MicroConf Refresh Episode 52: Bootstrapping VEED.io to $5M ARR in 2 Years

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Growth EU 2021, Sabba Keynejad walks through his journey of building Veed from 0 to $5M ARR in 2 years.

While the growth was quick, Sabba says that this was a "overnight success, ten years in the making".

Listen along to follow his incredible startup story and to hear his 6 tactics to help you grow your own SaaS.

Links from the pod:

MicroConf Europe Tickets- Nov 15-17, 2022

Sabba Keynejad I Twitter

Veed.io

MicroConf Tactics: How to Start a SaaS Business with No Money

Rob Walling — Wed, 17 Aug 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Starting a SaaS business with no money is hard, but not impossible. In this episode, we are sharing the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos in which Rob outlines what steps you should take if funds are tight but you have a great SaaS product idea.

You may want to consider startup funding options, but that's not always necessary, so in this video I'm going through what you can do to get started today in tech, startups and SaaS business - even with a shoestring budget.

Watch the original video here: https://youtu.be/huyDp-zWpxg

Links from the pod:

Rob's article on the Stair Step Approach to Bootstrapping:

https://robwalling.com/2015/03/26/the-stairstep-approach-to-bootstrapping/

Bootstrapper's Guidebook to Outside Funding

According to our 2021 State of Independent SaaS report, nearly 30% of founders said they were actively considering some form of outside funding. To help understand the options, we have recently released the Bootstrapper's Guidebook to Outside Funding. Check it out at microconf.com/funding-guide

MicroConf Tactics: Top 10 Avoidable Mistakes SaaS Startups Make

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:00:00 +0000

In this episode, we are sharing the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos in which Rob Walling dives into 10 SaaS mistakes to avoid. You'll learn how to shortcut your success with the fundamentals of what's needed for SaaS growth. He'll be going over SaaS marketing tips, bootstrapping, MRR, and more.

Watch the original video here: https://youtu.be/8Jjb7fPV6PQ

Bootstrapper's Guidebook to Outside Funding

MicroConf Tactics: How to Get Your First 100 Customers for Your SaaS Product

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Aug 2022 10:00:00 +0000

- https://microconf.squarespace.com/s/MicroConf-Remote-30-building-internal-tools-with-no-code-1.pdf

If you run a SaaS business, you need to know how to get customers. Getting customers for your tech startup can be one of the hardest parts of starting a SaaS company.

In this week's episode, we are sharing the audio from one of our recent YouTube videos in which Rob covers 3 basic things you need to do to get your first 100 customers for your product.

If you'd like to see the original video head over to https://youtu.be/QviDwsMLXb0

MicroConf Refresh Episode 51: Using No Code to Build Your Audience

Rob Walling — Wed, 25 May 2022 10:30:00 +0000

In this talk from MicroConf Remote 3.0, Jay Clouse discuss the Tweet100 community and challenge that encourages folks to increase their engagement and voice through Twitter. He built the community, the challenge, and page using no-code tools. You don’t need to build a marketing operation within your stack - no-code can solve most of the challenges you have.

Get the Deck

___________

Upcoming Events:

MicroConf Local: Chicago on June 21, 2022

MicroConf Local: Denver on June 23, 2022

Get more info here

MicroConf On Air: Building a Thriving Remote Culture

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 May 2022 10:09:00 +0000

In this episode of On-Air, Jesse Mecham, the founder of You Need A Budget, joins @RobWalling to chat about why core values and culture truly matter. Jesse also gives an update on how YNAB has grown since he gave his talk at MicroConf in 2014.

If you haven't seen the talk, you should check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8N7YrBM4o

MicroConf Refresh Episode 50: Quickly Delivering Feature Requests Using No Code

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 May 2022 10:23:00 +0000

Any SaaS founder can tell you that implementing feature requests can be a major drain on their resources. But they are a great way to nurture your relationship with your users. Jessica will walk you through the build of a feature request (our MicroConf Connect wiki!), how it can be quickly build and deployed, and how you can use the tools to build MVP’s for your most requested features.

Links from this podcast:

Jessica Malnik
Get the slide deck
Tickets for our next MicroConf Local:London on May 18 are on sale

MicroConf On Air: Rob Walling Answers Audience Questions

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 May 2022 10:39:00 +0000

A Rob Q+A Solo Adventure! Rob Walling answered listener questions live from MicroConf Connect (https://microconfconnect.com).

Topics Covered:

What are three key tips for pre-launch, pre-revenue to make sure that you absolutely must do?
What has the body of a Unicorn and the head of a Pegasus?
How was launching Tiny Seed Tales different than Startups for the Rest of Us podcast? What's changed in terms of "podcast launch strategy" since then?
How to deal with anxiety when launching starting something new?
Picking Customer Pain for my companies segment, as opposed to Competitor Pain and general observations about SaaS for non-technical customers.
If Rob was starting over today and trying to find a ".Net invoicing" to acquire and iterate on, where would he look?
Where should the balance fall between domain knowledge, industry connections and general sales skills when hiring your first sales person?
What is the best thing to do if revenue has plateaued?
What advice do you have for staying positive in spite of frequent fires caused by platform risk?
How to find a good SaaS idea?

Links and books from this episode:

The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick
List of SaaS Marketplaces
If you are interested in speaking at any MicroConf event, head to microconf.com/call-for-speakers and fill out the form.
Tickets for our next MicroConf Local:London on May 18 are on sale here: https://microconf.com/local-london

MicroConf Refresh Episode 49: Automating Your Customer Success Touch Points with No Code

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:43:00 +0000

This episode is from MicroConf 3.0: No-Code. Jane Portman (@uibreakfast) shares how every customer success story begins with a streamlined, concise, and conscientious onboarding and nurturing experience.

In this talk, Jane will review a variety of no-code automation recipes you can implement as your users move from leads to trials to customers and beyond.

Links from the podcast:

UserList

Get the Slide Deck

Get your Tickets for MicroConf Remote

Come to MicroConf Local: London

UserList

MicroConf On Air: Key Takeaways from MicroConf Growth 2022 in Minneapolis

Rob Walling — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 10:19:00 +0000

In this episode, Rob Walling (@robwalling) chats with Tony Chan (@toeknee123) from CloudForecast.io about key takeaways from the recent MicroConf Growth in Minneapolis.

_______________________

Links from this pod:

Tickets for MicroConf Remote 4.0:$$$, on May 3-5th are on sale at microconf.com/remote

Also, tickets for our next MicroConf Local:London on May 18 are on sale here: https://microconf.com/local-london

MicroConf Refresh Episode 48: Automating Your Cold Outreach Sales Process with No Code

Rob Walling — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 10:01:00 +0000

Cold outreach can be a painful, unyielding process that may leave you pulling out your hair. The real magic happens when you find a process that lets you ramp up the volume of your cold outreach campaign, and identify qualified leads to the to the top of that funnel. Andy will cover some of the key automation points in your cold outreach campaign and how no code can take some of the stress out of your sales cycle.

_______________________

Links from this pod:

Postaga: https://www.postaga.com/

Watch the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc-nTOiFBaM

See the slide deck: https://microconf.squarespace.com/s/How-to-Build-a-Cold-Outreach-Automation-System-Using-No-Code.pdf

MicroConf On Air: The Habits of Successful Entrepreneurs with Sherry Walling

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:00:00 +0000

Staying sane as an entrepreneur is not always easy. In this episode, Rob talks with Sherry Walling to chat about the habits of successful entrepreneurs.

This episode is sponsored by our Alternative Financing Partner, Pipe.

Do you need growth capital to scale, ramp up your marketing, and acquire new customers?

Pipe turns your recurring revenue into up-front growth capital within as little as 24 hours of being connected.

Pipe is a two-sided trading platform for recurring revenue that connects you directly to the capital markets. Simply sign up for free, securely connect your billing, banking, and accounting software with a couple of clicks, and Pipe will provide you with a trading limit in as little as 24hrs. Select the amount of capital you need, click trade, and get cash in your bank instantly. No 30 page business plans or founder due diligence - just growth capital based on the health of your business - perfect for time-strapped bootstrappers.

You can use your Piped revenue to grow your sales team, boost ad spend, and scale however you see fit. Pipe is growth on your terms.

And right now, MicroConf listeners get trading fees waived for 12 months which could save you tens of thousands of dollars depending on the size of your business and the volume you trade.

Topics covered:

[3:45] Habit #1: Have a sense of intentionality in how you work

[6:45] Habit #2: Focus- avoid Shiny Object Syndrome

[7:45] Challenge with focus is the shadow side of a great entrepreneurial strength

[10:15] Habit #3: Invest in relationships

[13:45] Habit #4: Have something else to care about

[15:45] Getting better sleep & ‘turning off’ after a day of work

[16:45] Habit #5: Be willing to take risks and make mistakes

[19:45] De-risking the small things

[23:00] Habit #6: Move quickly

Books Mentioned in the Show:

Touching Two Worlds (https://www.touchingtwoworlds.com/) by Sherry Walling

Entrepreneur’s Guide to Keeping Your Sh*t Together (https://www.amazon.com/Entrepreneurs-Guide-Keeping-Your-Together/dp/0999651803) by Sherry Walling & Rob Walling

Why We Sleep (https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Matthew-Walker-audiobook/dp/B0752XRB5F) by Matthew Walker

Science of Sleep (https://www.amazon.com/Science-Sleep-What-Works-Matters/dp/022638716X) by Wallace B. Mendelson

MicroConf Refresh Episode 47: Creating a Programmatic SEO Operation with No Code

Rob Walling — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 10:00:00 +0000

SEO is a numbers game. High value keywords can be identified and pages can be optimized to grow in the ranks, but once you have a gold standard asset set for a keyword, you may be able to take that work you put into that optimization and multiply the effects by using programmatic SEO.

Nico will cover how he has built an SEO machine using no-code, how to hone in on a replicable keyword, and what mechanics you need to rank for as many variations under that keyword to own its multiplying effect. Get the Slides

Join the State of Independent SaaS Live Stream where we present the results of the 2022 report. We'll be broadcast live from MicroConf Growth in Minneapolis on Monday, April 4th at 10:15 AM! Register at stateofindiesaas.com and use the promo code: SOIS2022 to register for free!

MicroConf On Air: The Stair Step Approach to Bootstrapping with Corey Haines

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Mar 2022 11:00:00 +0000

If you are looking to start selling to customers and earning money on the internet - building a SaaS is rarely going to be the best way to get started. The Stair step Approach to Bootstrapping (microconf.com/stairstep) is a method that Rob Walling charted out in 2015 and it has helped thousands of entrepreneurs slowly build their chops online, find a way to buy back their time from an employer, and build a business that creates financial independence.

In today’s episode of MicroConf On Air, we’re going to take a look a prime example of the Stairstep Approach in Action by talking to Corey Haines (@CoreyHainesco https://twitter.com/coreyhainesco), who is currently leading Swipefiles (https://www.swipefiles.com/), a community focused on growth marketing strategies.

We’ll chat about Corey’s journey up the stair step method, from his two courses, content marketing as a funnel, community building to find his audience, and finally, his focus on SaaS marketing and increasing his prices to get to a position that has him Default Alive and building on the success of SwipeFiles.

Learn more about the stairstep approach straight from the source.

https://microconf.com/latest/the-stairstep-approach-to-bootstrapping

In this episode, you'll hear the following:

Corey's First Step: (9:20)

What SaaS ideas Cory would avoid (13:00)

How Corey acquired his marketing skills (16:45)

Advice for marketing to customers who aren't that active online (21:50)

Corey's Next Steps (29:05)

Advice for absolute SaaS beginners (40:00)

Leapfrogging early stair steps (41:30)

Advice to consultancy owner on starting the stairsteps (44:40)

Advice on translating websites (49:00)

Book mentioned in the show:

The Ultimate Sales Machine (https://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-Sales-Machine-audiobook/dp/B000VRA0ZW/) by Chet Holmes

MicroConf Refresh Episode 46: The SaaS Founder Guide to No Code

Rob Walling — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 17:30:00 +0000

No-code is the word of the year, but the tools, processes, and ideas behind the movement have been around for years. As SaaS founders, we’ve been using no-code without calling it no-code for years.

In this talk, we’ll cover some of the history of automations and linking tools, how it has evolved into the no code movement it is today, and where we see it going in the years to come.

This recording is from MicroConf Remote 3.0. To see other past events and to get a copy of the slides, visit: https://microconf.com/remote

Want to come to our next MicroConf Growth in Minneapolis? Tickets will sell out soon: https://microconf.com/growth

Don't want to miss the next MicroConf Remote? Sign up for our mailing list: https://microconf.com/events

MicroConf On Air: The Updated Survival Guide to Bootstrapping SaaS with Omar Zenholm

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Feb 2022 02:14:00 +0000

The Updated Survival Guide for Bootstrapping SaaS

A few years ago, Omar Zenhom shared the story of how it went from being broke with fewer than 300 people on his email list to having 14,000 paying customers and 1 million attendees for WebinarNinja in 5 years.

We recently caught up with him to hear what he's been up to with WebinarNinja since then.

In this podcast, you'll hear about the following:

Setting goals and managing growth projections (6:11)

How WebinarNinja fared in the spring of summer of 2020 (6:57)

The specific adjustments he made to the company structure when the pandemic first started back in 2020 (13:40)

How his team structure has evolved since 2019 (26:55)

Where he sees the webinar landscape heading in the next 3-5 years (33:05)

The most surprising thing he’s learned to date running WebinarNinja (37:16)

Relevant links mentioned in this episode:

https://twitter.com/TheOmarZenhom https://webinarninja.com/

https://100mba.net/ https://microconf.com/upcoming-events

https://microconfremote.com

https://microconfconnect.com/

https://microconf.com/

https://facebook.com/microconf

https://twitter.com/microconf

You can watch the original talk back here: https://bit.ly/surviving-bootstrapped-saas

Listen on the go by subscribing to The MicroConf Podcast: microconfpodcast.com

Omar Zenhom is co-founder and CEO of WebinarNinja, a super-simple online teaching, coaching, and marketing platform. Founded in 2014, over 2 million people have attended workshops and other events on WebinarNinja. WebinarNinja remains a self-funded software company with over 20,000 stakeholders- their customers.

He's also the host of the popular small business podcast, The $100 MBA Show.

Omar, WebinarNinja, and The $100 MBA Show have been featured in Inc, Forbes, Fast Company, Entrepreneur and Product Hunt, as well as numerous other small businesses blogs and podcasts.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 45: From Zero to 14,000 Customers: The Survival Guide to Bootstrapped SaaS

Rob Walling — Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:21:00 +0000

How did Omar Zenhom go from being broke with fewer than 300 people on his email list to 14,000 paying customers and 1 million attendees in 5 years?

Omar speaks about his journey from 0 to 14,000 customers, launching his podcast The $100 MBA, which won several prestigious awards from iTunes, Forbes, and Fast Company) and the journey of bootstrapping WebinarNinja

The not-so-secret to his success was treating relationships as his biggest asset.

In this podcast, you'll hear about the following:

His early background when he had no traffic or audience

Why he pivoted and launched a 2nd podcast, The $100 MBA

How pain points he experienced with The S100 MBA led to the early idea behind WebinarNinja

Creating the initial MVP for WebinarMBA as a first-time SaaS founder who wasn't a professional developer

The compound effect of building and managing relationships at scale

Relevant links mentioned in this episode:

https://twitter.com/TheOmarZenhom

https://webinarninja.com/

https://100mba.net/

https://microconf.com/upcoming-events

https://microconfremote.com

https://microconfconnect.com/

https://microconf.com/

https://facebook.com/microconf

https://twitter.com/microconf

MicroConf On Air: The Vision for TinySeed Europe

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Feb 2022 19:24:00 +0000

With applications for our next round of companies to join the TinySeed Accelerator program in full swing, we are sitting down with Alex McQuade, Program Manager for TinySeed EMEA to talk about his goals for launching a successful EMEA focused accelerator for bootstrapped startup founders.

Alex McQuade has worked alongside hundreds of bootstrapped businesses, in addition to growing his own. He exited his business in 2020, and prior to that ran operations at the Dynamite Circle

Watch the live stream @ https://bit.ly/on-air-tinyseed-europe

Welcome to MicroConf - Where Independent SaaS Founders Launch, Meet, Learn, and Grow! MicroConf is the world’s most trusted community for bootstrapped SaaS founders.

MicroConf is a community of SaaS founders that brings together bootstrapped and independently-funded B2B SaaS companies who are not looking to chase “unicorn status'' or venture capital.

We provide SaaS training, education and networking opportunities for other founders who are pre-product, focused on scaling their business, and looking for an exit strategy.

MicroConf began almost a decade ago. Since then, we’ve hosted 19 events with nearly 200 speakers, helped thousands of attendees, and impacted tens of thousands more through our videos and online community.

Ready to take your SaaS startup to the next level? Check these out:

In Person Events:

https://microconf.com/upcoming-events

Digital Events: https://microconfremote.com

MicroConf Connect: https://microconfconnect.com/

Let’s Connect...

Website: https://microconf.com/

Facebook: https://facebook.com/microconf

Twitter: https://twitter.com/microconf

MicroConf On Air: How to Charge More For Your Software

Rob Walling — Fri, 28 Jan 2022 20:35:00 +0000

Change is tough. The decision to charge more for your software can be one of the biggest changes you can make - impacting your customers in a pretty meaningful way. This episode dives into the pricing and rebranding that his startup had to go through.

Eran Galperin is the founder of Gymdesk, online management software for gyms. He has been building tech companies since 2003 and has over 20 years of experience in software development and leading product teams.

Episode will cover: - How our value proposition changed over the years - Planning for and rolling out a pricing update - Reasons and considerations for a rebrand - Executing a rebrand and dealing with the fallout

MicroConf 2022 + The MicroConf Accountability Challenge

Rob Walling — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:53:00 +0000

This week, Rob is joined by Jessica Malnik, our MicroConf Community Manager, to talk about the future of MicroConf Connect, the community, and we introduce the MicroConf Accountability Challenge.

Join our January Accountability Challenge and get a head start on your 2022 goals.

“You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems.” This is a quote from James Clear’s book, Atomic Habits. (Good read btw!)

The end of December and the beginning of January are a natural time to reflect and set goals.

These goals can provide the necessary vision and direction.

However, setting goals without a detailed plan for how you will hit them is a recipe for failure. The difference between smashing your goal and falling shot often lies in the tiny habits and wins along the way—the 5, 15, or 60 minutes you are spending each day directly focused on one thing that will help you reach your goal.

That’s what inspired the idea behind this community accountability challenge.

For the month of January, we’re going to post an accountability thread in the #hallway-track channel every Monday.

Join MicroConf Connect ➡️ https://microconfconnect.com

All you have to do is share one tiny thing you plan to accomplish this week that will get you one step closer to reaching your goal. :muscle:

Then, on Friday, when you complete that task, post about it in the #tiny-wins channel so we can cheer you on. :tada:

Here is an examples of what this could look like:

Let’s say your big, scary goal for 2022 is to Reduce churn by 10%. Trying to achieve this in a month, a quarter, or even 6 months is hard. However, you can break this goal into 50+ tiny tasks that need to happen and will get you closer to this goal. The key is that each task shouldn’t take more than a week to finish (ideally far less time than that!)

Here are some examples of tiny tasks that can get you closer to your goal:

Week 1 task - Send a NPS survey to your customers to get a baseline metric.

Week 2 task - Review NPS survey findings.

Week 3 task - Email 5 customers, who completed your survey, to schedule calls.

By reverse-engineering your goal into 52 (or more) micro-milestones, your results are likely to compound and in turn increase the likelihood you hit your big goal.

Want in? All you have to be in MicroConf Connect, share the one tiny task you will accomplish this week that will get you closer to your goal.

If you are feeling brave, you can also share your big annual goal in this thread too.

(Totally optional but highly encouraged) - Each week, share the task that you are going to complete on Twitter too and make sure to include the #MicroConf hashtag in your tweet.

Then, once you complete your tiny task, post it in #tiny-wins, so we can celebrate with you. You can also tweet it too!

MicroConf Refresh Episode 44: Reflection on Bootstrapping Carthook with Jordan Gal

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Dec 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Jordan Gal is the co-founder of Rally and Carthook. During his time building Carthook, he learned some hard lessons about building on an existing platform, challenges to overcome bootstrapping, and how to implement those lessons into your next business.

MicroConf On Air: TinySeed Syndicate Announcement & Q+A with Einar Vollset

Rob Walling — Fri, 03 Dec 2021 00:36:00 +0000

TinySeed, the MicroConf Startup Accelerator and Fund, announced their Investment Syndicate today.

Join the co-founders of TinySeed, Rob Walling and Einar Vollset, as we discuss what it means to be an investment syndicate, how it can help startup founders more broadly than our accelerator program, and more.

At TinySeed we operate several funds, all with the same underlying thesis: Invest broadly into the earliest stages of B2B SaaS companies worldwide.

Typically, the kinds of companies we back are early stage — usually, $3-15k MRR at the time of application (although the range is much wider) — and those investments join our year-long remote accelerator in batches. The TinySeed Funds do not invest directly into any TinySeed company that decides to raise additional funding (a so-called “follow-on” round), or make any other kinds of investments.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 43: Identifying Your Best Growth Opportunities with Asia Orangio

Rob Walling — Wed, 24 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Asia Orangio walks you through some of the key areas you can find your best opportunities for Growth

MicroConf On Air: Accessibility in SaaS Design

Rob Walling — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 23:27:00 +0000

We're talking with Bet Hannon about the in's and out's of accessible design in a digital landscape.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 42: The Habits of Successful Entrepreneurs with Rob Walling + Sherry Walling

Rob Walling — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 20:56:00 +0000

Rob and Sherry Walling dig into some of the key habits of successful entrepreneurs. MicroConf Remote Tickets are now on sale! Head over to MicroConfRemote.com

Bonus Episode: The 2021 TinySeed Batch Announcement

Rob Walling — Thu, 04 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000

TinySeed, MicroConf's venture fund and SaaS accelerator, is launching their Fall 2021 accelerator batch this week.

MicroConf On Air: Bootstrapping v. Venture Capital - What is the Right Move?

Rob Walling — Wed, 03 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Should you bootstrap your business or get venture capital? If you're a bootstrapping startup and things get tight, you may consider vc funding for startups instead. But is it the right move? Or maybe you did get venture capital, and now you're wishing you hadn't. In today's video, I'll help you understand both options so you can make the best decision for your SaaS business or startup.

What to Watch Next:

Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped SaaS ➡️ https://bit.ly/ideal-bootstrapped-saas

Building Your First Bootstrapped SaaS: The Ultimate Playlist ➡️https://bit.ly/build-your-first-saas

microconf.com/state-of-indie-saas

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com MicroConf 2021

Headline Partners

Stripe https://stripe.com Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Hey https://hey.com Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/heyhey

Bonus: The 2022 State of Independent SaaS Survey is Live

Rob Walling — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000

We need your help! The 2022 State of Independent SaaS Survey is now live and we need as many eligible founders of B2B SaaS businesses to complete the survey. This survey will be used to create our third annual State of Independent SaaS report, offering recommendations, insights, and pitfalls critical to planning for a future in B2B SaaS.

Venture funded businesses have a wealth of research and data helping them make decisions about the next steps they should take with their business - our community and niche of indie funded SaaS businesses shouldn't miss out on these best practices.

Fill out the 2022 State of Independent SaaS survey today!

MicroConf Refresh Episode 41: Founder Led Sales with Sujan Patel

Rob Walling — Wed, 27 Oct 2021 16:51:00 +0000

Sujan is the founder of Mailshake and knows a few things about outbound sales. Sales shouldn't be scary. He covers 3 different strategies for leading sales as a founder, and offers some tips on how to maximize your conversions without burdening your in house resources.

Fill out the State of Independent SaaS report now at stateofindependentsaas.com and be entered into a drawing for a VIP MicroConf Growth US pack, including a ticket to the conference, up to $750 in airfare, and accommodations during the conference!

MicroConf Refresh Episode 40: Become the Wise Advisor with Mike Ritchie

Rob Walling — Wed, 06 Oct 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Platforms like Quora, Stack Overflow and Clarify.fm let you becoming the wisest, most sage advisor across the land. In this conversation between Mike and Rob, Mike will share how he tapped into authority building platforms to reach their earliest customers by providing insights and solutions to potential customers.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 39: Transform Your Technical Documentation into A Content Marketing Engine with Natalie Luneva

Rob Walling — Wed, 29 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

You know that you need product documentation to help your users level up their XP and get the most out of your SaaS. But did you know that you could also evolve your documentation to work harder as a lead magnet? Natalie will take you on an expert mode journey in converting these somewhat boring, mandatory pieces of copy into a content marketing strategy that makes it easier for your customer to find you.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 38: Fill Your Lobby with Partners That Can Refer Your SaaS with Leonardo Barrientos Persico

Rob Walling — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

It always helps to have a team behind you as you begin your next mission. Creating a partnership program with likeminded organizations and communities is a great way to get your product in front of potential customers and critical users. Leonardo will focus on his experience working with Start-Up Chile, 500 Startups México and others to help drive most of Lexgo’s early stage revenue.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 37: The AppSumo Treasure Trove with Ruben Gamez

Rob Walling — Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

A conversation between Ruben Gamez and Rob Walling. Learn how Ruben maxed out the benefits of his AppSumo offer, what customizations are needed to improve your posts, and the points to back up these recommendations.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 36: Reaching the Top of Product Hunt with Derrick Reimer

Rob Walling — Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Living at the #2 Spot on ProductHunt for January 2021, Derrick will take you on a look behind the success of his launch with SavvyCal.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 35: Early Stage SaaS Marketing with Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

An overview on early stage SaaS and software marketing strategies that can help you find your first customers.

https://microconfremote.com

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf Remote 2.0 Technology Sponsor

Quietlight Brokerage

https://quietlight.com/

Captioning Made Possible By:

Balsamiq

https://balsamiq.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

Stripe

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Hey

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/heyhey

Joining a Remote Startup Accelerator with Tony Chan

Rob Walling — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 21:00:00 +0000

Coming to you in the last 24 hours to apply for TinySeed!

Learn what joining a remote startup accelerator is like from Tony Chan, co-founder of CloudForecast.io, who was accepted into the Spring 2021 batch of TinySeed, the MicroConf Startup Accelerator and Fund.

https://microconfonair.com

Tony is a member of the MicroConf Connect community from launch and has been building CloudForecast, an AWS cost management tool that helps engineering teams monitor and eliminate wasted spend without spending. He is a 3x applicant to TinySeed, having applied over each of the application rounds.

TinySeed is currently accepting applications for the Fall 2021 batch of companies that we will welcome into our accelerator. If you'd like to apply, head over to https://tinyseed.com/apply

YouTube Video Vault

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

Stripe

https://stripe.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Hey

https://hey.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/heyhey

MicroConf Refresh Episode 34: How to Survive Building a Business and a Family at the Same Time Jeppe Liisberg

Rob Walling — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Featured in this week's episode are two of our Attendee Talks, which were selected by the audience at MicroConf Europe:

How to Survive Building a Business and a Family at the Same Time

Jeppe Liisberg

"I am a father of three. I have a startup that is almost break-even and has been so for years. I have a job to make ends meet. I'm struggling but coping. I'll be talking about creating and maintaining a sustainable work-life balance in this context. You've heard it before: there's an opportunity in every crisis. I've been spending time practising that, building a startup and a family at the same time. I'll be talking about the hard prioritisations you have to make every day. And about adjusting ambition, balancing personal goals and values along the way. I'll be giving tips and tricks to cope with stress, conflict and motivation."

A Frank Talk About Fear and How to Deal With It

Sergey Koltov

"In the beginning of this year I moved to another country; my wife and I are expecting our first baby in a few months; a revenue growth is slower than I expected, and so on, and so on. As an owner of a small self-funded startup, I constantly feel pressure but this year has become the hardest ones. The fear of failure started hindering my abilities to make good decisions. In June I started to fight back. I'm still far from overcoming it, but there is a good progress. In this talk, I will share what I learned in the last few months, why it is important to deal with fear on a regular basis, and what practices I use or experimented with."

http://microconf.com

#microconf #microconfeurope2019

MicroConf Europe 2019 - Attendee Talk

MicroConf Connect → http://microconfconnect.com

E-mail → support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

► Stripe https://stripe.com

Twitter → https://twitter.com/Stripe

► Hey https://hey.com

Twitter → https://twitter.com/heyhey

MicroConf On Air: Bonus Episode: TinySeed Fall 2021 SaaS Accelerator Application Info Session

Rob Walling — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 04:02:00 +0000

The application for TinySeed’s Fall 2021 SaaS accelerator batch of startups will open for two weeks starting on August 9th, 2021.

Watch the video recording of the Fall 2021 Batch Info Session here: https://youtu.be/6dqTClonO2Y

Interested in applying? Join us for an info session with the TinySeed team to talk about the application process, what to expect as a member of TinySeed, and some of the things we are looking for in companies we welcome into the fold.

https://tinyseed.com

#tinyseed

We’ve written a few posts that might be helpful if you’re considering applying:

— Our Fall 2021 application announcement: https://tinyseed.com/latest/tinyseeds-fall-2021-application-announcement

— Preview our Fall 2021 application and requirements in this overview: https://tinyseed.com/latest/2021-application-preview

— Curious about what it's like being a TinySeed founder?

Part 1 - https://tinyseed.com/latest/whats-it-like-being-a-tinyseed-founder

Part 2 - https://tinyseed.com/latest/part-2-tinyseed-founder

Ask Us Anything: MicroConf Edition with Xander Castro

Rob Walling — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 11:18:00 +0000

Watch the video recording at https://youtu.be/eRbQOuuW-FQ

MicroConf has been around for a decade now and do we have some stories. If you've ever had any questions about what it takes to produce MicroConf, how we pivoted from an in person event to a digital community, or any other random question you have about MicroConf in general, we'll get those answered for you.

https://microconfonair.com

Xander Castro is the Events Director for MicroConf. He joined the team back in 2014 as a freelance coordinator and has been producing MicroConf and MicroConf Europe ever since. In 2019, Xander was hired as a full time producer for the MicroConf and TinySeed team and has lead the charge on the expansion of the MicroConf brand, community, and digital presence ever since.

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

Stripe

https://stripe.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Hey

https://hey.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/heyhey

MicroConf Refresh Episode 33: Lessons From the Field 5 Proven Strategies for Faster Growth Rob Walling MicroConf Europe 2019

Rob Walling — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 11:00:00 +0000

In this talk at MicroConf Europe 2019, Rob Walling (TinySeed, previously founder at Drip) covers five specific marketing tactics that are working for SaaS companies today.

#microconf #microconfeurope2019

Check out Rob’s MicroConf speakers page for more talks: https://microconf.com/speakers/rob-wa... Rob's homepage → https://robwalling.com

MicroConf Connect → http://microconfconnect.com

E-mail → support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

► Stripe

Twitter → https://twitter.com/Stripe

► Hey

Twitter → https://twitter.com/heyhey

MicroConf Refresh Episode 32: Victories & Tragedies The 3 Year Journey Building Balsamiq Cloud Peldi Guilizzoni MicroConf Europe 2019

Rob Walling — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 05:52:00 +0000

Build a SaaS app!" they said... "It'll be great!" they said...it turns out, running an online service Is a big pain in the SaaS. In this talk I will tell you all about designing, building, selling, scaling, maintaining and supporting balsamiq.cloud, the online version of Balsamiq Wireframes. I'll focus on 'the things they don't tell you' and even give you the dirt about a massive data-loss incident from May 2018. Fasten your seatbelts, there will be turbulence!

---

Giacomo 'Peldi' Guilizzoni is a programmer turned entrepreneur, who founded Balsamiq in 2008 and has been learning how to run and grow the company ever since. He has spoken at Microconf a few times along the way, to share his learnings and, mostly, his mistakes. He still loves to code, when he's allowed to by his team. :)

Check out Peldi’s MicroConf speakers page for more talks → https://microconf.com/speakers/peldi-...

#microconf #microconfeurope2019

MicroConf Europe 2019

MicroConf Connect → http://microconfconnect.com

E-mail → support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2021 Headline Partners

► Stripe https://stripe.com

Twitter → https://twitter.com/Stripe

► Basecamp

https://basecamp.com

Bootstrapping VEED to $5M ARR with Sabba Keynejad

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:00:00 +0000

When Sabba Keynejad started VEED, he knew that he wanted to build the company as a bootstrapped business. Founded in 2018, the business has been growing steadily over the past 3 years, and with the boom in video content over the past year and a half, the impact was palpable.

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
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Moving from An Agency Model to SaaS to Expand Your Bandwidth with Molly Wolchansky

Rob Walling — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:00:00 +0000

When you find yourself consulting on number of client projects, as a solo consultant, you might run into bandwidth issues that can slow your growth. Learn how Molly took her experience marketing for Real Estate Agencies and applied a subscription based SaaS model to that framework, allowing her to erase the boundaries and limits time placed on her.

https://microconfonair.com

Molly Wolchansky is the founder of The Agent Nest, a SaaS that provides print and social media marketing content for real estate agents. Before starting her SaaS, she ran a marketing company, published multiple poetry books through her publishing company, wrote plays that were produced around Dallas, created handmade gifts for her Etsy shop, copyedited novels for a publisher, freelanced for Texas magazines, read incoming new scripts at a production company, and even wrote a children's book called The Cactus and the Balloon. The Agent Nest's debut was in 2020, and ever since its opening her company's monthly recurring revenue has continued to climb. At this trajectory, she will become the number one real estate marketing tool in the industry in a year.

8:06 - So your real estate marketing agency was able to serve 10-15 high touch customers - when did you realize that creating a self service tool could increase your bandwidth and revenue opportunities.

11:36 - What tools have you used to build The Agent Nest’s offering?

16:58 - How did you create your content library?

19:24 - Have you had any issues with people pirating your content?

27:23 - How have you kept your templates and tools fresh?

The Agent Nest Twitter Account ➡️ https://twitter.com/theagentnest

The Agent Nest ➡️ https://theagentnest.com

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 31: How to Build Buzz & Backlinks on a Bootstrap Budget Irina Nica MicroConf Europe 2019

Rob Walling — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:00:00 +0000

In this recording, Irina Nica (Senior Marketing Manager at HubSpot) goes over how to build buzz and backlinks on a bootstrapped budget. Irina is in charge of the Hubspot's off-site SEO Strategy, including content promotion, influencer outreach, and link building. Prior to joining HubSpot, Irina was the Marketing Manager of SEOmonitor.com – an award-winning SEO tool for agencies.

MicroConf Europe 2019

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 30: Taking Down the Search Giants Helen Pollitt MicroConf Europe 2019

Rob Walling — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:28:00 +0000

Competition online is getting increasingly fierce, how do you stand out from the crowd in a marketplace dominated by industry giants? In this talk we’ll explore the ways to win organic clicks and sales away from the big players in your industry whilst working with budgets a fraction of theirs. Key takeaways include:

• How to develop SEO strategies to outrank the industry giants • Standing out in the organic search results even when you’re not in first place

• Getting your share of the search real estate

• How to conduct competitor research to fuel your SEO campaign

• Discover the foundations for building an SEO campaign that helps you gain a bigger share of the market with a start-up’s budget.

If you are going against huge brands in the search results then you can’t miss this talk.

MicroConf Europe 2019

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 29: Using Mental Models & Principles for Better Decision Making Andy Ayim MicroConf Europe 2019

Rob Walling — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 05:00:00 +0000

Andy Ayim talks about how mental models can help us to make different types of decisions. And how, by using specific frameworks, we can focus on solutions that aren’t immediately obvious.

#microconf #microconfeurope

2019 MicroConf Europe 2019

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From Bootstrapped to Venture Backed with Hana Mohan

Rob Walling — Wed, 02 Jun 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Bootstrapping V. Venture Capital. This is an ongoing discussion in the SaaS startup community for the last decade . The question is less about the how, and more often about the why and when. MicroConf has always advocated for self-funding and customer centered entrepreneurship, while venture capital can be a chase for profit.

We're chatting this week with Hana Mohan, founder of MagicBell.io (https://magicbell.io) about her experience bootstrapping her last company (SupportBee) to $45K MRR and deciding to accept YC funding in 2021 after her exit.

Hana is the co-founder & CEO of MagicBell. She is a proud transgender woman who is passionate about empowering women & other minorities. She lives in Barcelona with her two cats.

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Are You Learning Quickly Enough? with Anders Thue Pedersen

Rob Walling — Wed, 19 May 2021 12:05:00 +0000

Entrepreneurship is moving at a breakneck speed to keep ahead of the curve and create without getting overtaken by your nearest competitor. If you aren't learning the market your business serves and the intricacies of it's consumers quickly, then you'll never keep up with their needs.

Anders Thue Pedersen experienced that outpacing while he was building his last business, TimeBlock. Learn how changed his mindset to a constant state of curiosity and how he is applying that framework to his new product, Mælt.co.

Inspiration ➡️ https://twitter.com/andersthue/status...

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This episode is sponsored by Rewardful, turning your biggest fans into your best marketers. Get 30% off your first 3 months by heading to https://getrewardful.com/startups Offer expires May 31st.

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Announcing TinySeed’s 2021 Accelerator Batch

Rob Walling — Thu, 06 May 2021 12:00:00 +0000

We’re fortunate to be continuously amazed by the quality and number of applicants for TinySeed’s annual accelerator program: https://tinyseed.com #tinyseed

In total, we’ve received nearly 2,000 applications across our three accelerator batches. And with each successive batch, the quality of applications has grown alongside the percentage of companies with higher revenue. This round’s batch is also our most international to date, with seven founders based outside the U.S.

We’re proud to welcome these 18 startups to our 2021 accelerator program:

→ Aurelius (https://www.aureliuslab.com) is an all-in-one space for researchers to organize notes, capture insights, analyze data and share outcomes with their team.

→ Breachsense (https://breachsense.io/) enables security teams to reset stolen usernames and passwords before criminals exploit them.

→ CloudForecast (https://www.cloudforecast.io/) eliminates wasted costs in AWS without significant engineering resources. Through easy-to-understand daily email and Slack reports, engineering teams can quickly react to cost anomalies and mistakes that can often sit for weeks.

→ CraftyBase (https://craftybase.com) is an inventory and bookkeeping package for handmade sellers.

→ Harbor Plan (https://www.harborplan.com/) is an out-of-the-box sales tool that enables non-tech savvy users to follow up automatically via email and text message. The software extracts a lead’s contact info as soon as it lands in the user’s inbox, sending a campaign of built-in content until the lead responds or books a consult.

→ Lasso Analytics (https://getlasso.co/) Analytics is the all-in-one affiliate marketing plugin for WordPress. Lasso helps you create beautiful product displays, find new affiliate opportunities, and easily manage all of your important links in one place.

→ Lexgo (https://www.lexgo.cl/) is the first automated legal service for startups in Latin America, enabling founders to complete their legal processes faster and at a fraction of the cost of a lawyer.

→ Localyser (https://www.localyser.com/) is an online reputation management solution that helps businesses manage all of their reviews from across multiple platforms all from one place. Whether you manage one brand or several, one listing or a chain, our easy-to-use dashboard allows you to monitor, respond, analyze, and generate more reviews quickly.

→ Monolith Forensics (https://monolithforensics.com/) is case, evidence, and lab management software for digital forensics labs and teams.

→ MSPCFO (https://www.mspcfo.com/) leverages data in a managed services provider’s systems to identify actionable items that can drive growth and stability to the bottom line.

→ NewsCatcher (https://newscatcherapi.com/) allows users to search through an indexed database of online-published news articles in near real-time.

→ Planifi (http://www.planifi.net) provides project and resource planning for architects and engineers. Planifi makes it easy for design professionals to plan and schedule projects, forecast project performance, and staffing utilization across offices and disciplines.

→ Postaga (https://postaga.com) is an all-in-one link building and outreach platform that helps marketers more quickly and easily drive traffic, increase search rankings, get press coverage, and connect with potential customers. Postaga’s workflow analyzes websites, blog posts, and podcasts to find the best outreach opportunities, retrieve their contact details, and sends them personalized outreach and follow-up emails.

→ Rails Autoscale (https://railsautoscale.com) is a Heroku add-on for avoiding app slowdowns and lowering your Heroku bill.

→ SecurityStudio (https://securitystudio.com/) provides software solutions to secure information for your organization, your employees, your vendors and yourself.

→ Senior Place (https://seniorplace.io) offers a customer relationship management system specifically designed for the rapidly growing Senior Placement and Referral industry.

→ Testable (https://testable.org) helps behavioral researchers create experiments and surveys in minutes instead of hours or days, using natural language instead of coding. We also help scientists collect better data through our reliable and diverse pool of verified participants.

→ Zentake (https://www.zentake.com/) is a patient intake management tool that improves medical practices’ patient interactions with HIPAA compliant electronic forms. Zentake removes the busywork from collecting patient information, saving time, and improving the patient experience.

Thank you to everyone who applied. TinySeed’s next application period will be in the summer of 2021.

Markers to Watch Out for on Your Way to Product Market Fit with Maren Kate

Rob Walling — Wed, 05 May 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Finding product market fit is not an overnight process. It's almost impossible to strike that sweet spot at the onset of your product idea - even if you have some degree of validation.

This episode is sponsored by Rewardful, turning your biggest fans into your best marketers. Get 30% off your first 3 months by heading to getRewardful.com/startups. Offer expires May 31st.

According to the State of Independent Saas (https://stateofindiesaas.com) the majority of founders originally validated their idea by building out an MVP or prototype, but the likelihood that they found PMF with just that prototype seems unlikely.

Maren Kate has spent the last 3 years bootstrapping AvraTalent, and has some thoughts on the various markers to watch out for on the journey to Product Market Fit.

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Building Communities that Enhance Customer and User Satisfaction with Rosie Sherry

Rob Walling — Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:10:00 +0000

There is power in numbers and developing communities around your brand, your product, and your users can be a great strategy to ensure customer and client satisfaction.

https://microconfonair.com

Rosie Sherry has just started a new role with Orbit.love and has been serving as the Community Manager for Indie Hackers before launching her Community Building hub, community and course, Roiseland.

I want to build a community but I feel there are already so many communities existing out there targeting the same audience ... feels saturated - your view ?

What went into the decision of using Discord? Pros? Cons?

Are you worried about what's going on with Facebook and Section 230? Could it kill the small online communities?

Did you miss MicroConf Remote? You can still purchase the recorded videos at https://microconfremote.com

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Scripting Sales Calls with John Ndege

Rob Walling — Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:10:00 +0000

You should be scripting your sales calls the same way you script a webinar or presentation. Reinventing the wheel every time you get on a call with your customers is less efficient than creating a standardized set of responses and direction for the call. John Ndege has launched a number of profitable businesses, but has taken a turn to teaching solid sales strategies.

Mentorship for SaaS Founder with John Knox

Rob Walling — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 10:00:00 +0000

Mentorship for SaaS Founders can mean the difference between the slow SaaS ramp of death and making the critical changes to your process that helps get you to consistent growth.

John Knox is a repeat Angel Investor in some of the most successful mobile and SaaS brands, including Summit, Branch, and 1 Second Everyday. He is a current Mentor for TinySeed, and his insights and network are huge assets to the companies he provides mentorship for.

- Do you follow up on the people you help with a specific problem to see how it went and find further opportunities to help? How do organize this?

- Any recommendations on how to become more coachable?

- Can you talk about what’s in it for the mentor if they're not an investor?

- How formal are the mentorships you're talking about? Is there an equity split, consistent scheduled meetings, or is it more informal?

- I am at the MVP stage and in the process of promoting my SaaS. It’s going slowly due to lack of budget. Any thoughts on how to speed up growth on a budget?

MicroConf Remote (https://microconfremote.com) is on sale! The event is scheduled for March 23 - 25 from 11:00 AM - 12:30 PM EST Daily.

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A MicroConf On Air + Software Social Podcast Crossover

Rob Walling — Thu, 04 Mar 2021 10:27:00 +0000

The hosts of the SaaS Podcast Award nominated Software Social Podcast join Rob to chat about all things SaaS, early stage marketing strategies, and more.

https://microconfonair.com

Michele Hansen @mjwhansen

Co-founder of Geocodio @geocodio, A geocoding SaaS, which she and her husband started in 2014. It started as a side project and she went full time in 2017. She is co-host of Software Social Podcast, which was nominated in several categories for MicroConf's 2020 SaaS Podcast Awards. She also recently launched a free newsletter about customer research for bootstrappers.

Colleen Schnettler @leenyburger

Colleen is a Ruby on Rails consultant. She has spoken at both RailsConf and RubyConf, and loves being part of the developer community.She recently launched her first product - https://www.simplefileupload.com/. You can hear all about her journey launching and monetizing a software product on her podcast - Software Social. She's a mother and a military spouse and loves chatting about all things software and business.

When did you start your show, and why?
Have you received any benefit from having a podcast, or is it just for fun?
How long do you plan to share revenue on the show?
How much time (and money) do you dedicate to the podcast outside of the time "on air"?
How do (did) you foster a growth mindset? How did you develop the mindset to ship things without the need for immediate payoff?

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All Things Design with Tracy Osborn, Author of Hello Web Design

Rob Walling — Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:15:00 +0000

Just as designers benefit from learning a little bit about programming, programmers, marketers, product managers, and salesfolk, can benefit from learning a little bit about design.

https://microconfonair.com

Tracy Osborn is the Program Manager of TinySeed, Founder of WeddingLovely, and an all around genius when it comes to operational efficiency and web design. Her book, Hello Web Design, will be published nationally, and is available for pre-order at https://nostarch.com/hello-web-design.

What elements should you consider when making a choice about fonts for your website?

"Too many cooks spoil the broth": does too many designers spoil the design too?

What factors should founders consider when getting a logo designed? Should they always go bespoke? What's the cost for a custom logo design generally?

I find that most dev-tools screenshots of their features can be a bit busy or boring (sometimes it’s code, numbers, analytics etc.). Any design advice for dev-tool SaaS companies to help visualize these features where screenshots of their product might not work well?

When you're looking at a website, what are 2-3 things you always look at to evaluate how "well" it is designed?

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The 2021 State of Independe SaaS Report

Rob Walling — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:00:00 +0000

Comprehensive data about the state for bootstrapped (or mostly) founders and how to use the report to make meaningful change in 2021.

To access the full report, head over to https://stateofindiesaas.com.

For nearly a decade MicroConf has helped startup founders grow faster through access to world-class experts, and the world’s most trusted community of ambitious, bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped founders. MicroConf has become the mothership for founders like yourself looking to learn and share strategies, tactics, advice, and inspiration.

The beauty of creating this 2nd report is our ability to draw comparisons from one year to the next. While the overall structure is very similar to last year, you’ll notice we’ve drawn comparisons wherever the data deviated to a point that it became interesting.

In addition, we’ve mixed up the visuals in many areas from simple bar and pie charts to now include word clouds and micro-infographics. The idea is to optimize the presentation of this information to help you understand it at a deeper level.

This all lines up with our mission to help you be successful, faster.

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Let's Answer Some Sales Questions with Steli Efti

Rob Walling — Thu, 04 Feb 2021 08:00:00 +0000

The inimitable Steli Efti has been a leader in the startup and SaaS sales landscape for years. Check out this live Q+A focused on sales processes.

- Any tips on how I can use to my advantage the fact that I am a client as well as a co-founder in marketing, sales or during onboarding calls? 2- I have had extensive success in Marketing & Sales in the Sports & leisure industry selling an in-person Service in the B2C world. Any tips on how to translate those skills into the SaaS and B2B world?

- If you were to start a CRM system today from scratch, how would you try to launch and build it up in todays world? From Max Sinclair a big fan and user of Close

- How do you know when to put a fork in a cold outreach campaign?

- Any advice for selling to non-technical industries when your domain expertise is in tech & not their field?

- What are the best sales books?

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 28: MicroConf Remote Quick Fix: Expense Audits with Bjork Ostrom

Rob Walling — Tue, 02 Feb 2021 23:41:00 +0000

We asked our MicroConf Remote speakers to answer the question: "What is one thing I can do today that will make a meaningful impact on by business in the future?"

Bjork uses a simple expense audit and asks 3 questions for each transaction:

Should I cancel this?

Should I change this to a yearly discount plan?

Can I ask for a discount?

Check out the video and get registered for MicroConf Remote!

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 27: Ask Me Anything with Jason Fried, Co-Founder, Hey & Basecamp

Rob Walling — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 05:00:00 +0000

Chapter 4: Onto something new…

There is something to be said about bootstrapping your business to millions in revenue, to stick by it and still hold the keys, over 2 decades after launch. It is rare to see the founders of any company stick it out for that long… but there isn’t much that isn’t rare about the founder journey that our next storyteller can share. It begs you to wonder, when the only pre-ordained next step in your roadmap to building your business is “The End”, but you’ve not reached that ending… what is there left to do to fill the next few chapters.

That is how we’re going to end our story. And ending that keeps moving forward but jis yet untold.

With our guest, Jason Fried, Co-Founder of Basecamp and Hey!, we hosted an open ask me anything about what it took to grow Basecamp to the degree of success it reached, how the small bootstrapped team was able to develop a competitor to the likes of Gmail or Yahoo Mail, and their very public spat with the Apple App Store in mid-2020.

Check out the full-length conference video at https://youtu.be/q1WNvRoSays

If you want to join in on the conversation with over 1400 other founders, join MicroConf Connect, a slack community space where you can meet founders from around the globe working on cool products in a sustainable way. Head over to http://microconfconnect.com for more details.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 26: The Office: Training Your Team To Get The Job Done Without You: Nate Grahek - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:00:00 +0000

http://microconfremote.com

Let’s face it – there comes a time in a founder’s lifecycle within their company where having them on support emails is a terrible idea. Eventually, you’re going to have the assets to be able to afford a marketing person, and THAT person is now responsible for all of the copyrighting. You cannot be the only person doing demos. In time, if your company has found product market fit and your growing in ways that allow you to bring on more help – its time to create a structure so that you can let them know how to move through a project…. without you.

Nate Grahek, Founder of Sticky Albums, is going to share a few pointers for how he optimizes his internal operations so that his team of much smarter people doing their own thing can get their jobs done without him being the bottleneck.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

Bonus: Applications for TinySeed Are Now Available + Live Q+A

Rob Walling — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 19:14:00 +0000

Curious about TinySeed, MicroConf's accelerator and fund? The TinySeed accelerator team (Tracy Osborn, Rob Walling, and Einar Vollset) recorded this live webinar to answer questions about their third application round.

Jump to a question:

2:43 - Why is it called TinySeed?

8:52 - What are TinySeed's basic investment terms?

13:55 - Do we invest in non-US countries?

16:03 - Do we invest in B2B companies?

18:34 - Is there a requirement for the application process?

21:43 - What is your policy against repeat investment in the same space?

22:48 - How many months would you estimate the churn rate over for small business?

24:24 - I feel our evaluation now may be above the standard investment terms for TinySeed. Will there be any flexibility in terms?.

25:08 - What industries or companies did you see thriving this year due to COVID?

25:55 - We just started providing annual payments were people can pay in advance for a year — should we advertise those when calculating MRR in our application ?

26:55 - My SaaS isn't launched yet but it's making a $1000 or more in the MRR — am I right for the program?

27:36 - I believe you looking to fund to 20 to 25 companies, which is 2 times more than previous batches. How will you maintain the camaraderie and intimacy the with a bigger batch?

31:46 - We have a B2B SaaS system, we have 15000 active free users and 25 paying customers — 15000 looks better than 25, which one should I use for customers?

32:30 - Is Edu/Research Tech under your domain?

33:05 - Do you have a preferred formula for LTV?

35:04 - Can salary cap be adjusted with inflation overtime, or market changes?

36:16 - Is the investor dividend based on equity?

36:30 - If there are multiple founders, do you require all founders to be full time?

38:00 - What factors do you look at before onboarding a company?

40:25 - Is there an option to buy your shares out?

42:43 - Do you invest in S-Corps?

44:32 - What is the process and timeline after the application has been submitted?

46:19 - How do you approach the application if you had previously had a SaaS?

47:00 - What happens after the accelerator year?

50:18 - When is the next application process and when is the next batch?

51:16 - If you're recently launched, should I apply now (to be on the radar) or later?

52:12 - In your application, you ask the number of team size — is this the number of founders?

55:04 - How do you compute monthly churns, if only yearly churns are counted?

56:07 - Is growth more important than profitability?

57:25 - Apart from investing, what else can we get from TinySeed?

58:28 - How should you represent monthly payments when it consists of one-time payments?

More about TinySeed

→ https://tinyseed.com

The program and how to apply:

→ https://tinyseed.com/latest/2021-apply

Questions?

→ hello@tinyseed.com

→ https://twitter.com/tinyseedfund

#tinyseed #microconf

MicroConf Refresh Episode 25: Quick Fix #4: Paying Off Your Analytical Debt: Asia Orangio - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 05:00:00 +0000

What are Quick Fixes?

We asked some pretty smart people a pretty hard question: What is 1 thing you can do today that is going to make tomorrow and on easier for you to run your business?

And finally, we have Asia Orangio of Demand Maven who think that paying off your Analytical Debt as early as possible will clear up a lot of question marks later on in your business.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 24: The Story of How Squadcast.fm Blew Past $100K MRR - Zach Moreno and Rock Felder - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 05:00:00 +0000

Chapter 3: Accelerating to $100K MRR and Beyond

While the first $10K MRR may be one of the tallest hills to climb, sometimes, if you time things right and you’ve put in the work to be a known quantity within the communities, the social media circles, and the leading voices in your target market, you can feel the slow rumble of blastoff that has you moving towards your next milestones faster than you could imagine.

That was the experience of lifelong friends and co-founders of Squadcast.fm , Zach Moreno and Rock Felder. It took them nearly 2 years to go from Launch to $10K MRR. In the last year, they’ve 10x’d that MRR to beyond $100K. In this talk, they’ve cover the three things that they can point to that carried them through this milestone, and the direction that they are currently headed.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 23: Quick Fix #3: SEO Hacks in 5 Minutes with Viola Eva

Rob Walling — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:00:00 +0000

http://microconfremote.com

What are Quick Fixes?

We asked some pretty smart people a pretty hard question: What is 1 thing you can do today that is going to make tomorrow and on easier for you to run your business?

Viola Eva of Flow-SEO has a few quick tips on how to optimize your best performing content for SEO.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 22: Between Two Plants We Stole Off of Someones Patio: Andy Martin - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 05:00:00 +0000

http://microconfremote.com

Join the MicroConf Remote host, Rob Walling, for a conversation with Andy Martin, Founder of BlueRithm and Minneapolis Native who joined us in the MicroConf Remote studio to chat about his experience building BlueRithm on the back of a successful career supporting large scale projects.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 21: Quick Fix #2: Finance for SaaS Founders: Meryl Johnston - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 15 Dec 2020 05:00:00 +0000

What are Quick Fixes?

We asked some pretty smart people a pretty hard question: What is 1 thing you can do today that is going to make tomorrow and on easier for you to run your business?

Meryl Johnston, Co-Founder of Bean Ninjas, takes a deep look into things that founders at a few different stages of their journey can be optimizing their finances for the future.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

SaaS Growth, Content Marketing + Measuring Success with Lars Lofgren

Rob Walling — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:37:00 +0000

We are hosting Lars Lofgren, CEO of Quick Sprout, to answer listener questions about SaaS, growth, and more.

What is a good content marketing routine for a solo startup founder?
Considering aspects such as: publish on own site vs guest writing for popular publications in the niche, ratio of educational/promotional flavour, or any other tips that come to mind
- Kasra from FeedbackOnSite.co

How much time does it usually take to start ranking for keywords you target? How do you ensure that eventually happens? - Tony w/ Cloud Forecast

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Automatically Generated Transcript:

We're live. Welcome to today's episode of MicroComp on air as always. I am your host, Rob walling. As every Wednesday at 1:00 PM, Eastern 10:00 AM Pacific, we live stream for about 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing ambitious SAS startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to value and maintain healthy relationships.

We believe that showing up every day and shipping that next feature, next piece of marketing copy or closing your next sale is a way to build a sustainable company. So thanks again for joining me today. It's been a couple of weeks last week was Thanksgiving in the U S. And so we, I gave producer Zander the day off.

And of course, it doesn't make sense for me to get on here and try to do it without the expert to lineage of, of producers, Andrew and his production. So tryptofan attic. I think it's, to crypto fanatic, do we have a typo in my lower third for those listening on the podcast?

Welcome every Thursday morning, we air these episodes on, the MicroComp podcast. You can head to microcuff podcast.com or search for microcuff in any pod catcher. And you can. Here are these here? These, these episodes producers, Andrew says, Tiffin is the chemical in Turkey makes you sleepy. That's right.

So I'm a tryptofan addict because things and all that. thanks. Thanks for that. Producer Zander got a great show too. I'm super excited to bring on a first time guest to MicroComp on air, but not a first time guest to the microcosm world. Mr. Lars Lofgren is a many time MicroComp speaker. He's also a tiny seed mentor and all around good guy.

He is the CEO of QuickSprout, which you can check out@quicksprout.com. He's a former director of growth at, I will teach you to be rich, where he worked with Ramit Sethi, and he ran growth for Kissmetrics and Lara's specialty is, has been content marketing and SEO for years and years. And he's one of the OJI.

Content SEO people that I heard about back in the day, if you recall, Kissmetrics blog was the leading blog. It was the example everyone looked to in our space in terms of a blog that was driving a lot of traffic, a lot of engagement. And just something that we, I think a lot of us tried to model our own content strategies.

That, and Laura's was the, essentially the man behind that, that effort. And so with that, I'm going to welcome mr. Lars Lofgren to the show. How's it going, sir? Hey, Rob, it's good to be here. Yeah, thanks, man. Good to chat with you again, Lars and I have known each other for years. I don't know. What do we think we met 2012, 2013, something like that?

Yeah. One of the really or micro cops in Vegas when I was actually living in Vegas, which is a whole other story every time. And every time we came to Vegas, I'd see you and be like, Hey, still like in Vegas. Cause you no, I can't stand it. Yeah.

Yeah, yes. It's a much better fit for my overall, immensely sunny disposition. yeah. Yeah, totally. when folks ask me about you, because it's something that a lot of people don't realize is we see some kind of more, I'll say celebrities, but it's just people who are popular, who either have their own podcasts or their own personal brand or their blog, or they could do a lot of podcast interviews.

And we just hear their names, a lot folks, you and I know and know I've spoken with at my recom, Jason Cohen, a heat and shot. Dan Martell, they're big names in the space. You have chosen not to do that. I think intentionally chop to do it in the success behind you, but you're an understated, like you're a tactician and you get in and you just wreck shit.

You get it done. You grow big things big really quickly, but you haven't been, I think, I am immensely self promotional or building like a personal brand. Was that Benadryl pretty deliberate choice on your part? Yeah, I think it's a, for a little while I entertained it. it gives, you can obviously do a lot of things with your career and you can, whatever you build, just having that personal brand and audience, like you can just get started so much faster, right?

It's there's so many advantages to it. And most of the companies that I was involved in and built marketing programs around, like there were personal, really heavy, really intense personal brands that were the foundation that we ended up launching off of. So I've seen that I've know exactly how that works, what it can do for a company or whatever someone's trying to accomplish.

But at the end of the day, I just, it's not right. I like the, I want to drive revenue. I want to go build stuff. I don't want to like, just run that and speaking. Circuit, I'm happy to do it. If people find it helpful and I get an invite, but like grinding that out and playing that game.

It's not that it's a bad game. It's just a different game. That is not as good as totally. Yeah. It's just not, it's just not your thing. And for, folks at home listening, you've worked with Neil Patel and he Shaw and Ramit Sethi and others, and. yeah, you've seen it from the inside.

That's the thing, man. I was on Twitter. That was probably about a month or two ago. And I, I just keep seeing the, Hey, build an audience before you build your product. And I think that's an amazing advice for info products. if I'm going to sell a course or a book or any of that stuff or a coaching, I'm going to, I know people got to know and trust me all that thing.

If I'm going to build a SAS set from the ground up and I don't already have a personal audience. I just don't think it's worth the time, and when I look at people like you and Ruben Gamez, and frankly like 80 or 90% of the SAS apps that I see get into the seven or eight figures, they don't build an audience from the start.

They might build a launch list. You build an interest list in the app, but it's not about the person, it's not about the story. it's about blocking and tackling, right? it's paid ads, it's content, it's SEO, it's cold email, it's sales. It's you know, all the stuff that you do to scale an app, And I just don't, I have enjoyed watching you succeed without having to, again, start a podcast or be a big personality, And it's true. I agree with all that. in fact, if you go to the personal brand route, Some businesses, you learn a lot of good lessons and it feeds into it really well. consulting, if you want to write books, info products, certainly like they tend to gel and actually are almost required. but for other businesses you learn a lot of bad habits and you end up, it forces you to go around.

That's not congruent with what the business model really needs a long-term. and I do see a lot of people learn those bad habits and then the business suffers later for it. SAS doesn't need any of the typical. personal brand stuff. It's nice. If you have it create early days can be faster, but there's, if you don't have it in, you're considering building that stuff from scratch, honestly, there's way more effective ways to get your first five customers, your first 10 customers to get the ball rolling.

And if you do that kind of the non-scalable direct route, you're actually going to learn way more about your Mar market. What the business needs and you're going to get a much healthier foundation. cause I have seen businesses go sideways because they've leaned on the personal branding and the audience love too much and they ended up delaying some really core, fundamental problems that kinda nipped them later.

Yep. Very cool. let's dig in. We've got a couple of, first I got a comment from mr. Justin Jackson. He says, Lara's miss arguing with you at the bar smiley face. So I'm sure he gets that. And then I have a question from from feedback on site.co and he says, It's a bit of a long question. So I'll read it.

He says, what is a good content marketing routine for a solo startup founder? And then he adds, some, additional information thinking like considering aspects, like publishing on your own site versus guest posting for popular publications in the niche. And I would even add versus. Posting on medium.

Like a lot of people are doing these days, the ratio of educational to promotional flavor or any other tips that come to mind. So let's start with that. Maybe with the first general thoughts you have on as a solo founder, which a lot of folks, solo founder with maybe a contractor or two or solo founder with no guarantees.

that's what a lot of folks watching this are thinking, what are your thoughts today on how to build that up? Yeah, so I'm going to, my opinions or my method. There's multiple ways to win in this game, but I'll give you a few quick tips that I would do personally. first is fuck medium.

I'd never posted anything on medium. I never want to post anything on medium. I want nothing to do with that entire site. In my opinion, infuse the entire point of content marketing. You want to go play a social network viral game, go play on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or whatever, and go actually play that game.

Medium is this like weird hybrid where you get all the work at content marketing, but like none of the longterm benefit and you get this ephemeral, like social network type hops. So then the ROI and the content, it's just really wonky. But anyway, that's my opinion. Fuck medium. I don't like it at all. but if I was, let's say I had some SAS startup that I was just trying to be off the ground.

We had some paying customers trying to, and I was committed to content marketing. the first thing I tell people is. Only do content marketing. If you like, really love it. And you as a founder, have a deep passion for creating that type of content. because content is content. Marketing is a longterm game.

It takes years and years to pay off. You will never feel the payoff until you forget about it. And then look back after a few years and you're like, wow, this really is helping the business. so if you don't stick with it, you're never going to get there. So if you feel like you have to do content marketing, and that's why you're getting into content marketing, then you should probably go do something else.

This also applies to the type of content that you're considering, right? there's podcasts, there's con there's actual blog posts. There's YouTube videos. All of these mediums are very valid and can work exceptionally well. The key, whether or not it actually ends up helping the business, especially for a solo or early stage, like bootstraps startup of some kind is if the founder is actually dedicated to them, medium.

For the long-term. So if you are way more interested about videos, then go do YouTube. If you're way more interested about podcasts, go do that. don't force yourself into writing blog posts when you really want to do something else or vice versa. And then, so let's say you checked all those boxes. Like you're committed to content.

You don't care if you ever like, see the results, you just feel like it's important and you enjoy doing it. And then you also enjoy the actual, No, whatever specific channel you're going into a good starting cadence is published something once a week. Make it high quality, try to talk to your customers directly, prospects folks in your market.

And so the, like the evergreen questions that, they're going to have this year and they're like, they have this year they're going to have next year. So the content is not going to really decay really fast. and then, yeah, just keep doing it week after week and try to get better at it. there's obviously a ton of nuance and tactics and secret, or maybe not secrets, but just like little tweaks and all that stuff.

But, the key is consistency and creating high value content over a long period of time, not getting distracted. Which a lot of folks do, they tend to quit six months in and that's not even enough to get started long game. Yeah. And in terms of, let's say someone did want to focus on building a blog or building a bunch of, Yeah.

And I'll just say with the blog, I didn't want essays. is it true in your experience that today longer content Google is valuing that more than it used to? Yeah. as a general rule, there are exceptions to this. The main thing I always go back to is search intent. So every little keyword is a very unique funnel where the people plugging in that keyword have a different set of expectations.

Sometimes people really want the crazy in-depth. Just endless amounts of content on that subject. You want to go deep other times, they just want the quick answer. And then for you to get out of the way, it's like everyone, you guys now it cliche too. When you go to a recipe site, you get this long story about their grandma and where they're at.

The recipe came from and no one really cares about that shit. Like they just want the recipe and then to get back to cooking and, there's places for that content and you do need some authority and you need to add value on the page, but you can do that in a way.

That's not getting in the way of. What people are actually looking for. So it's very keyword dependent and I always go to the keyword itself, see what people are looking for, what other pages are ranking. and then I back out from there. Sometimes it's nice and short. Sometimes you want to go really long.

without additional information as a starting rule, I always like to go in with roughly 2000 words. You can always add more. You can always cut if you have a really good reason, but. If you don't have a reason to do one or the other, then start at 2000 and go from there. Got it. And I want to call something out that you and I have talked about several times, but a listener may not have picked up on it in your mind.

Content marketing is all about SEO. It's much less about the social and I'm going to put it on Twitter and it's content cop you're right. that's what Kissmetrics the blog was about. That's what the Ramit Sethi stuff. that's what you're doing today, right? Is this evergreen, I want a ton of organic search traffic on a monthly basis.

Yeah, we, we actively do not promote any of our blog posts like currently today, Twitter accounts with Facebook accounts, We don't have any of this shit. I don't even know if we actually have a sprout Twitter account or maybe some other user has it. I don't even know, and I don't even care.

back in the day, you can do basic stuff. if you have a company and you have a approved. Pretty well-established SAS company. You have a whole marketing team. Should they be emailing your users or marketing list about a new blog posts? Yeah, probably one in the early days.

When you just gotta be like scrappy and super lean. I don't worry about that stuff at all. Like it's all, is it's all SEO backwards. So I'm now thinking about trying to like, create like a bunch of noise in the space and it's not really like thought leadership. It's what are the keywords?

What keywords can I rank for? And, how do I build a site that's powerful enough in order to rank for those keywords. And so it's always keyword backwards. And so if you were to take a keyword and search for it in Google, a key phrase, That you want to rank for a search word and Google, and a bunch of the top ranking posts are really long.

Would that influence your decision to go really long? Because Google is in essence choosing those as a general rule. Yes. There's always this balance between, you want to. You want to give that individual like keyword market, exactly what it wants. Like you don't want to go left when they want to go.

But you also have to differentiate yourself with what's already been done just enough. So there's that balance. And how far to differentiate when you know, comes down. it's very nuanced based on the actual keyword. And honestly, it's a lot of judgment calls.

You're like, we know this about this topic. We know we have all this other research and we've competed with all these other keywords in the same general category. We know people generally want to go this direction. And maybe because we have all that extra information and maybe we do a hard left.

And we totally break the norm. It goes super short when everybody else is going along. Other cases like, we don't really know about this market at all. It seems like people are, want the longer content that makes sense. Maybe start there and try to differentiate ourselves in a smaller way.

So it's, again, it is very topic and keyword based. and there's a lot of nuance, keyword, the keyword. Yep. And I think, the are to wrap up his question part of it, he said, what is the ratio of educational versus promotional or salesy content that you would put out if you were doing a blog?

And I was going to phrase it as, like, how do you think about it, Lars, in terms of top of funnel, mid middle of the funnel and bottom of the funnel content, if you're wet around QuickSprout or maybe on a SAS, a blog. Yeah. So as a general rule, start at the bottom of the funnel and work out. Because the bottom of the funnel, that's where all the revenue is.

if you had a I'm sure if you spend any time in this space, you've heard that rich, like stupid ROI stat around email, it's like email produces 42 X ROI or whatever ridiculous the percentage it is. And the only reason that's the case is because emails at the hump of the fucking funnel by people are already on your list.

They're already in your orbit. They're already aware of the problem. They're already. it has some trust in you and they're on your email list. So yeah, when you send them an email, do they respond and click through and buy yes. Cause they're all the way down. you can't compare the ROI to like Twitter or Facebook or something at the very top.

It's just different stages of SEO. Is generally further down the funnel compared to other channels, but there is also a range keyword to keyword. Some stuff is very direct. it's like product categories when people are searching for actual product categories, like dog food, then yeah. They are interested in purchasing dog food.

They're aware of the need. They're aware of the solution and they are looking for advice on how to make a purchase. Every business. Has some of those categories within Google now, depending on the size of the market and the category, sometimes it's super niche and sometimes it's, massive. but you always want to start with those really direct keywords.

And then you're always making these trade off considerations of how competitive is it? Like you're building a new CRM and you're going up against Salesforce, head to head. Are you going to get on the first page? Probably not. I hopefully you're right. The niche nature. You have a way to segment down your industry somewhat.

So you can get to some areas that are not as competitive and you can at least give them the running, which is generally on page one. And then from there you can build up your authority and expand and, get more coverage over time. But, and also go up the phone, every often. Yeah, you're going for super broad terms, stuff.

That's not even Directly related to your product. Like you might have an AB testing tool and that's your SAS product. You might start releasing marketing content on funnels and copywriting and conversions and going after all those topics, just because you need that broader awareness.

That's one step up from the purchase decision that takes a lot of money. A lot of time. It's generally pretty competitive because there's a lot more players in those categories. but when your business is at that stage, then sure. Yeah, go after it. Let's start at the bottom and leave the top of funnel stuff for later.

At least that's my preference. Cool. That's great advice. A couple of things I want to add to that too, in talking to Ruben Gamez founder of doc sketch, who you and I both know, he says that to find bottom of the funnel terms, go to Google AdWords and look at the cost per click. And usually the higher clicks, the higher cost per click is more towards the bottom of the funnel, because those are the ones that are actually converting to revenue.

The other thing is I wanted to give one example of if someone's never heard of this, these terms, top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of the funnel, imagine someone imagine you are a podcast recording software, like squad cash, right? They're a tiny seed company. A top of funnel might be, how do I start a podcast?

Middle funnel might be. how do I record my podcast or record how to record a podcast online? And then bottom of funnel might be squad cast versus competitor, or best podcast recording. You know what I mean? It's you're making their way down. Would you read those? The assessment. Yeah. Most, most upper categories, especially, they usually follow like a few like typical keyword, like templates, like it's the category, alternatives, categories, services, category tools, category there's five to 10 of these things that you see over and over again, a little Googling and any keyword tool you'll figure out which ones are the most popular, the fastest, and then go focus on those.

Very cool. All right. We have a question from Tony from a cloud forecast. He says, how much time does it usually take to start ranking for keywords you target? How do you ensure that eventually happens? Yeah, okay. It's been like days, weeks, months on just the how to ensure it happens. That's like my whole job right now.

But, as far as the initial timeline, is let's say, so you pick the keyword, you do a little Googling around and you figured out the search intent a little bit. You write a blog post, you think you have a good shot at ranking you publish. How long does it take before you make any decisions?

General rule of thumb. 90 days. so once you go live, don't even make it, you don't even really know where the post is going to land for 90 days. So you got to wait. Then after 90 days, you can see where it sits in the ranking. So just keep Googling that same keyword, usually just in an incognito window, and then just start going through the code search results.

there's ways to automate the stuff. if there's a bunch of keyword trackers out there, but you don't want to get fancy. And you want to see where you land. If you are on page one, that is fantastic. lucky you're off to the races and you can work on climbing, which is a whole other set of stuff you can do, but let's say you're like buried then what do you do?

it's, probably a sign that you really don't have the authority you need in that general category within Google. So it's. Google really thinks in like category or topical areas. every site tends to have authority in. One area, but not as much authority and others. That's why I like, PC gamer can rank really well with a lot of terms, but they get into other software terms and they struggle, Or QuickSprout ranks really well in certain marketing topics. But then we get into other business areas and we don't do as well, even though the domain score is just off the. Charts, It's a fantastic domain. it's really how much authority do you have in a specific area? Brand new, no bang. If you have a brand new company and most likely just don't have the authority, especially if there's any degree of competition, that's most likely the reason why you're doing Barre, which case you are signing up for the long slog, which I still think is worth it.

That's why I do this pod, for a lot of, scrappy. Small businesses pretty lean on budget, then you're going to have to make some trade offs. And, honestly, my advice for most aspens is, if you're not getting the rankings that you want. Just keep building a business. as you get more customers, as you increase your MRR, as you increase your sales pipeline and your lead gen and you release new features and you do more promotional stuff and writing more content, you will end up building an immense amount of authority.

And that whatever category you have to be in naturally, if you just keep going. So a lot of times the answer is don't force it. This is for a SAS company specifically because you have so many other cars to play in order to grow the business. And then you can come back to content and you've actually discovered, assuming that.

You're building a company in a very specific niche and your contents focused on that niche. You'll end up doing much better over time, just naturally as you build the company. Yeah. There's all sorts of ways to accelerate it and double down and guarantee that you actually move that stuff forward. but it's intense.

It's expensive requires an immense amount of focus. And that would actually make the case that most SAS businesses should not do that. Cause they have other things to worry about churn and product market fit and like honestly marketing and assessments and it doesn't have to be that good. It just needs to be good enough to not be a problem.

There's other things that I'm way more concerned about for SAS, but my business is a hundred percent NCO, so that's why we go crazy with it. And something you mentioned while you were talking about that is, if you rank on the first page, let's say you're number nine or number 10.

That's great. Now you have to work on climbing that first page is that it these days, is that just links? Is it what it's always been? Or how do you, yeah, it's how you. It's content. That's all consented. In my opinion, it's simple, but it's not easy. people like to get really complicated, redirect all of these domains and do all this fancy stuff.

And I'm just like, no, just don't mind. We don't do any of that shit. First size the content one is, and this is the only we do this very differently than most people in programs is that we take the content really seriously. two in two ways. One is, it needs to be super fresh because that's what Google prefers.

In fact, I think their algorithm is overweights restless. It's it's stupid how much it matters, but you can see like you're on a competitive term. if you spend any time, paying really close attention to the search results. And you go look at the, like the dates on when everything was published on competitive terms, everything has been published like within the last week.

that's not actually true, right? everything like those pages has been around for years and years and years, but everyone has realized how much freshness matters. So they like, they have to keep it updated. If you play a really competitive circles, like it becomes a requirement and updating weekly is.

I'm not that's not exaggeration when you actually have to update these things every week. And that's like adding a few paragraphs, adding a new section removed, just,

you do have to update the content. You can't just change the date. Google picks up on that pretty fast, you go fix some typos. You got some extra sentences, you condense things, you clean it up, you Polish it and then reship it. So that's one side, cause the freshmen is, does matter Google, so you always have to be pounding that kind of freshness treadmill.

But the other side that we take really seriously, because we're all. because we focus so heavily on keywords and none of the other promotional stuff, whether it's email or social feeds, that's very calendar driven. You get these pops that come and go, like we don't have an editorial calendar, not a conventional sense.

Like we don't have dates. We don't have any of that nonsense, but we do have posts. And we need to keep those things updated and improvement in quality over time and in a really deliberate way, because we know that we write for a certain term today. We're want to rank for it tomorrow and next month.

And next year and five years from now, like shirts, term volume and search volume does not change in a big ways. It's really consistent, which means we can go really hard. On doubling down on that content and really up leveling it all the time. So like I could go through our update program, what that looks like.

And most content to use would be like, that's insane. Why would you ever do it that way? that's what Google wants and it works. And that's why we do it that way. So one, we always want to be improving our content and to the new there is that freshness component of the algorithm. The other side of everything is you do.

Yeah, go ahead. It sounds like you've got to follow up. Oh, I was just going to ask you talked about content and links and I think a lot of people will say, how do you build Le what do you, what are you doing as a guest posting and linking back? Are you, back in the day, people used to buy links.

Like how do you build links to these days? Yeah, so that is the other big component is the likes. And if you are in a competitive. Category, fundamentally you're going to need lives. And the story doesn't matter. What else you do? You have to find a way to get links. There was a couple of ways to do it, depending on how aggressive you want to be.

Like I said, most SAS businesses. If you just keep really doubling down on your business and just building out like a great blog and doing all that conventional, Content or inbound marketing type stuff. You'll end up getting there, especially as you build a really large business. but like more specifically, what can you do?

I guess posting works. I know Google officially says you shouldn't do it. And, but everybody still does it and it's just be careful with it. Tallaght don't scale it too much, but like a few guest posts here and there. With some very targeted, like one white per post back to you type of deal, that still does work.

and a lot of people do it. And for good reason, you can, there's all sorts of outreach games you can play. so you know, a lot of the popular ones are finding sites with broken links to sites like yours, and then saying, Hey, that page is down at four fours, you have a broken link on your site, Hey, here's a, we just put out this research, this resource would be perfect as a replacement.

You mind changing it to us. There's a bunch of these things. if you just Google around, you'll find all sorts of them. and that's still, that does work that you gotta get pretty intense on the volume now because the response rates were always like, Small, but if you really want to grind your way to links, you end up doing something like that.

So some crazy guest posting program, some crazy outreach program. as far as buying links, I would tell everyone to never do that, do not do that. I've been in this space a long time and I don't trust anybody to build links. Fucking they'll fucking, if it's actually the one way you can destroy a site, If you build bad links and you do it wrong, you can totally kill all of your search authority.

So the risk here is super high. You got to be really authentic and really careful with how you do it. That's why guest posting, like you can really keep control of it and make it like very legitimate. And not get into any gray water with Google, same thing with outreach. Like you can still do outreach stuff.

That's legitimate. And is that in value and yeah, any outreach or cold email, a little spammy shore, but you still find tricks and angles where you are actually adding value, like trying to fix some likes. are you doing this self-serving way? Sure. But yeah, you're also trying to fix the link on the site, right?

So it's, there is some value that you're contributing. They're buying links. If you have some vendor or some agency or someone doing that for you, they're not going to do any of that. We're going to find the fastest sketchiest way. It gets you, whatever lead volume that you just purchased. And then they're going to move on to the next client and you do too much of that for too long and you will kill your domain.

So just stay away from that. I don't even touch it. I believe I have the expertise to actually evaluate these folks and I don't find anyone that I actually trust and do it. So I just stay away from it entirely wise words, sir, we are over time. Now we do have a, another question, but I think maybe I will answer it in Slack afterwards.

Really appreciate you taking time today, sir. And folks want to act online. Yeah. are you on Twitter? Are you Lars Lofgren on Twitter? Yeah, Laura's locked that Laura's lock grip. You can find me. It's a very quiet account. So would you follow me? Don't expect any active content, but if you ever want hit me up, that's a good way.

Sounds great, man. Thanks again. Hope to see you in person, maybe in 2021, assuming great to see at a microphone for something. All right. Thanks Rob. All right, we are wrapping up for today. Yay. Thanks for joining us and thank you as always to hae and Stripe for supporting MicroComp. We love having them aboard our 2020 headline partners.

If you haven't already, you can head to youtube.com/microcomp. Please. What do they call it? Smash that subscribe button as the kids say these days. Oh man. It's just, I feel so old next week. Wednesday. Same time. Same place. I will see you here. Thanks for joining me. MicroComp on air.com. .

MicroConf Refresh Episode 20: Scatterspoke and the Road to $10K MRR: Colleen Johnson - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 01 Dec 2020 08:15:00 +0000

Chapter 2: The Road to $10K MRR

From launch, there are a ton of baby steps that are celebrated. Your first paying customer. Your first $100 MRR. $1,000K MRR. Maybe the first time that you can pay yourself! It is full of milestones that propel you forward. But depending on your pricing, it can be a different world entirely between earning your first $1,000 MRR on a $10 monthly subscription or a $100 monthly subscription. Hitting that $10K mark starts to instill that sense of product market fit.

Our next storyteller is Colleen Johnson, the Co-Founder of Scatterspoke. The winding road that her and her husband co-founder have navigated in the last three years as they’ve build up a product that served a specific need within the Agile community has brought them to the door of $10K MRR. Take a step by step walkthrough on the various turns she and the Scatterspoke team took as they slowly made their way to that $10K MRR mark.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 19: Startup Founders in Cars Getting Coffee: Founder Origins with Dr. Sherry Walling - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 06:55:00 +0000

Startup Founders In Cars Getting Coffee: Founder Origin Stories

Dr. Sherry Walling has spent nearly 300 episodes on her podcast, ZenFounder, talking about the in’s and out’s of the founder psychology. That, along with a doctorate in clinical psychology and years of working with entrepreneurs, has helped her put together a couple of avatars for the variety of founders you see in the startup work.

Join her and Rob as they talk about the origin stories of many founders, and see which one you relate most to.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

Freemium, Growth @ Summit, & Forecasting Currency Fluctuations with Matt Wensing

Rob Walling — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 12:31:00 +0000

As we continue to evolve the MicroConf On Air Podcast, we have decided to move into a more open call for questions from the audience rather than a straightforward interview format.

Host Rob Walling is joined today by Matt Wensing, the founder of Summit (http://usesummit.com) and RiskPulse, which was recently sold.

In this episodes, we cover the following questions:

- When is Matt are you going to start hiring a team for Summit? When does he anticipate he will hit a growth stage within the company?

-My product is a social intranet software sort of like microsoft teams/facebook combined, so we deal with B2B. A lot of my competitors make it very difficult for their customers to sign up, do not give free trials or freemium, you have to fill out a form for a demo or to get signed up. Is there some sort of hidden advantage to being difficult to get started with? Is there an advantage to weeding people out or what exactly is the goal here?

-How do you think non-American startups should forecast currency fluctuations if most customers are in the US paying in dollars?

-What does Summit do? At what stage in my business is it for me?

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 18: How I Inadvertently Launched Speckled: Corinn Pope - MicroConf Remote

Rob Walling — Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:48:00 +0000

It takes a ton of methodical, strategic steps to get any product off the ground. For some, they fear launching before the product is perfect; others may launch way to early, before establishing any degree of product market fit. But in the grand scheme of things, unless your launch has been prefaced with fanfare or critical note, you may decide to launch by simply flipping the on switch and seeing what happens.

Our opener tweeted back in early June that she had inadvertently launched her company. It doesn’t get much earlier stage or right at launch as that. Corinn Pope is the Founder of Speckled, and has been following the stairstep approach to move from an employee to a info-product maker, to now a self-taught technical Founder of Speckled. And her approaching to building the company leaned so far into the concept of “Just Ship It” that she had launched her MVP before she had even realized it was on the market. Check out her story.

This video was recorded on September 1, 2020 in Minneapolis MN. All proper social distancing, PPE, and health and safety measures were taken in the production of this show.

Note, this is not a live session, so calls for questions, survey, etc… are all pre-recorded.

Survey Says: More Co-Founders Can Lead to Faster Growth + Mitigating Platform Risk w/ Shar Darafsheh

Rob Walling — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 10:13:00 +0000

The State of Independent SaaS Survey results point to a correlation between more co-founders + faster growth. https://microconfonair.com

Shar Darafsheh is one of the 5 co-founders of Servicebot.io, a fast growing UI toolkit built on top of Stripe Billing. In this episode, we're going to explore the validity of the first State of Independent Report (stateofindependentsaas.com) that points to a direct connection between the number of co-founders working on your SaaS and the rate of growth you're able to achieve.

We also explore the platform risks that are associated with building a business around the infrastructure of another product - what considerations you need to make when deciding to create a business in that structure, and what assumptions you need to make about platform risk in order to overcome those hurdles. The first ever SaaS Podcast Awards are now accepting nominations.

Head over to saaspodcastawards.com and let us know your favorite shows, episodes, host(s) and stories SaaS Focused podcast.

We'll aggregate the top 5 nominees in each category and head to a vote in early December.

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 17: Staying on Top of Your SaaS Metrics_Knowing What to Measure (& What Not to) to Help Maintain Sustainable Growth - Craig Hewitt

Rob Walling — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 05:36:00 +0000

Knowing of which metrics to track, and which to ignore, is an essential part of growing your SaaS business. The ability to filter out good, actionable, data from the ever-present noise that just distracts you is what separates many successful businesses from the ones that never get off the ground. By creating a system of how you can collect, review, and take action on the data in your business you'll be able to take action with confidence that your business is going in the right direction.

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Transcript:

Rob Walling: Thanks for joining me on this week's MicroConf refresh episode of the MicroConf podcast. We are continuing our journey through the building, your first SaaS ultimate crash course, playlist. That playlist has received rave reviews on Twitter and from folks contacting us. So if you haven't watched the talks, you can always head over to youtube.com/MicroConf to see the visuals today's talk is from Craig Hewitt.
It was given in 2019 at MicroConf Europe. It's called "Staying on Top of Your SaaS Metrics". Know what to measure, to maintain sustainable growth. It's an exceptional talk. And here's how Craig describes it, knowing which metrics to track and which to ignore as an essential part of growing your SaaS business, the ability to filter out good, actionable data from the ever-present noise that just distracts you is what separates many successful businesses from the ones that never get off the ground by creating a system of how you can collect review and take action on the data in your business.
You'll be able to take action with confidence that your business is going in the right direction. And this is one of 10 talks in the playlist that covered things ranging from finding an idea to launch and early growth to outbound sales, to customer support, onboarding, and playing the long game, staying sane while you're starting up.
Hope you enjoy it.

Craig Hewitt: Hello everyone. I think I've met many of you, and a lot of familiar faces, so it's good to be here. it's an unenviable position to be right after lunch. On the second day, people are. Tired or hungover. we're gonna have a lot of, interaction here. if you have questions, you can stop me. We don't have to have questions at the end.
but what are we talking about today is SaaS analytics, and SaaS metrics that you need to watch and those that you don't, cause I think running a SaaS business, which I guess show of hands who runs a SaaS or subscription and business. Awesome. Good for you. and who attracts their metrics like every day, every week, every month, Cool.
Okay. We're going to talk about all this. so that's cool. SaaS metrics are fun. there we go. But it's the second day right after lunch. And so what's really cool is how we can grow our companies faster by paying attention to our metrics because metrics by themselves aren't really that important. so who, again, show of hands. Who's happy with their current growth rate, who has a positive growth rate, I guess we'll start with that.
Yep. And who's happy with it. Right on. Cool. That's not unexpected. Okay. after your talk right there. Cool. so I think what we're going to say here is instead of just this nebulous to grow and I want to grow my business, let's put some values around that. So metrics and narrowed down this whole huge field of like marketing and sustainability to something that's a little more, tangible and that we can affect better.
one son just started judo. He's seven and it's not my son, but, I think, this, this Bruce Lee quote is really cool because it dispels like the arrival fallacy, right? The rival fallacy is that when I get to 10 K and I quit my day job that I'm there. Or when I have a team of 10 people and I don't have to be working in the business every day, I can work on the business that everything will be sunshine and rainbows uniforms.
and it's not true, right? Because you're never there. We're all at this conference because we want more out of our businesses and this fulfillment that it gives us personally. and I think talking about metrics, it's the same thing. We are never going to be there. We're never going to be happy.
And so you just have to get cool and comfortable with being unhappy and run your business this way. So who has seen something like this and all the marketing world? Yep. Cool. top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, the idea is just get a bunch of people aware of your brand and your content, and then you work them through this funnel by educating them about the problem that your product solves.
and then hopefully. Oh, is this not working? Okay.
everybody hear me. Okay, cool. I'm like double fist in here. And then convert them at the bottom of the funnel. And so this works really well. This is pretty traditional. I think some people are starting to dispel this a little bit with instead of funnels, they're using loops and cycles.
but the idea is really that you start at the top with something like awareness and then increase, awareness of a problem. And then the solution that your problem, your product presents and more information about your product itself and how it's different from others. And then hopefully convert these visitors or trial users into paying customers at the end.
We're going to touch on this down here a lot more later, but this is, something that's really popular in the marketing world these days about the five stages of a customer journey. So I think that this model is Shortsighted right. As business owners, if you're a marketer, then this is cool.
Cause this is all you care about. But as a business owner, this tells like from a metrics perspective, maybe half of the story and what I really like to break it down to is acquisition and retention. because they're the two parts of the business. One is getting people into your world and into your funnel and then converting them.
And then you got to keep them around, Because. There's a very pop I'm part of the tiny seed cohort of a very famous saying now from one of the tiny seed folks, INR that he says, I hate your churn. and because churn will absolutely wreck your business. And so INR hates everyone's churn, even if it's really low, like we're fortunate to have a cast dose.
you have to pay attention to both sides of the point, right? You have to pay attention to awareness and acquisition and trials and all this good stuff, but you also pay attention to things like lifetime value. And turn, we'll talk about both sides of this because they're really important. so from an acquisition metrics perspective, this is like the world, right?
And this is like all we really care about, seeing things like from the very top of the funnel number of people come to your website. and the way we like to think about this as we'll talk about, how we evaluate our metrics and how we can change them in the future. but just the very beginning is like how many people are coming to your website?
From there, it goes down the funnel to say like, how many trials do you have started? That's cool. And then once that ratio, so what is the trial to visitor ratio in your business or for your funnel? And then from there you say, how many new paying customers do I have every month or whatever. and we talked about that in terms of MRR usually.
and then what's that trial to paid conversion ratio important. and then something else that we think about is like, how much does that cost, How much can we spend on AdWords or Facebook gods or a marketing person or content writers all super important because you can't be paying more to acquire customers than they're worth, in the long run.
And then the last one, which is super hard, but, if you can figure it out is channel attribution. So where are you getting people from? And then how much does that cost, from each channel? On the re on the retention side of things, that's like after someone becomes a paying customer, how long did they stay around?
So we talked about revenue churn. We talk about customer lifetime value, and average revenue per user. So on a monthly basis, how much does the average person you and then the big one is cash in the bank? because all, I think the day that's all of it, All distances really about is like, how profitable is your business?
How sustainable is it? So we don't want to happen as this. And that's why I like to think about acquisition and retention, because you don't want to put a bunch of resources and time and money and stuff, and the top of the funnel or in the top of the bucket, just for it to leak out the bottom. And so we're going to run through a couple of examples and I'll ask your opinion on Hey, look, let's look at this business.
Is this good? Or is this bad? but the way that we kind of solidify, this is with a scorecard. and this is not my unique idea. This is from a book called Traction by Gino Wickman. Who's read Traction. So there's two tracks and books. Rob talked about one yesterday. It's not the marketing book. It's the how to run a business book.
Yup. Everyone else should read it like this week. it's the book on how to run a business, from a really macro it's if you read the E-Myth it's E-Myth. They already got the unit 2.0, it's the EMAC 3.0, it's like for grownups, how we should run our business. So he has this idea of a scorecard.
Everything that really matters in your business is too much for all of us think about. So you solidify it down and concentrate it into one piece of paper and it's your scorecard. So it's all of these SaaS metrics. And then for the business, whole it's things like cash in the bank and receivables and all this kind of stuff, depending on your business, you're a scorecard will change, but you have to have.
A place to look at this on a regular basis, that's easily accessible and you can track over time. So how and where do we track our metrics? a lot of subscription folks here will use something like ProfitWell or biometrics. That's cool. That's a piece of it. Something like Google analytics also super-important amazingly free.
and then a product usage tool like amplitude and mixed panel. There's a handful of others out there. Heap. and then we got to put all this information somewhere. So we put it in things like notion, which is what we use for like our communication tool, or in base camp or in Google. She threw a little drive.
So how often to track your metrics? There are definitely people who look at ProfitWell every day. I am Craig. I look at profit. every day I obsess about it. and that's cool. you should look at some things every day. You should look at some things every week and you should look at some things every month.
and so we'll talk about what we do, and you can take this for what it's worth. so on a monthly basis, we write a, and we did this before we joined tiny seed. We write a kind of narrative, a letter to our friends and advisors and people that I know and respect in the space. And now we write it to Robin INR and the folks at tiny seed to say, Hey, this is how we're doing.
and we include all of this stuff in that letter. and say, here's our MRR, here's our churn. Here's our booth. Here's our open meeting. Here's our CAC. Here's the number of new trials that we'd started, on a monthly basis because these are lagging indicators, right? You're not going to go do something.
I guess, James, talk dispel this a little bit. You're not going to go do something that affects churn on like a weekly basis, right? This is a longer term thing to affect these numbers. So that's why I only report these once a month, because if you look at churn, Or ARPU on a weekly basis, you'd be like, yep.
The same as it was last week, if your business anything like mine on a weekly basis, we look at a lot of the marketing and acquisition type things. So we look at website visitors, new trials, what that ratio is trial to paid conversion ratio. and we try to look at channel attribution because these are things that are really fluid and dynamic and are changing hopefully all the time.
If you're having an active marketing group, all of this stuff should be changing all the time. So we track this. I'll show you how in a Google sheet. And we look at it all the time, and hopefully these numbers are changing on a weekly basis and that tells us that something is happening and hopefully that's good.
and then on a daily basis, we look at basically ProfitWell, and look at how many new trials we had started yet. Yesterday. We look at what our MRR is today, and we look at the number of new paying customers we acquired since the last time we looked at yesterday. And so you might be saying, Craig sounds like a pain, right?
but it doesn't have to be right. So we, we automate a lot of this tools. ProfitWell automatically do a lot of this for you. Thank you, Patrick. but for the really marketing kind of metrics, there's not a tool other than Google analytics that does this in a really cool way. like data studio from Google, I think makes us in a really nice format.
but we do is we automate the collection of all this into a rule sheet with a free ad on Google sheets. Everyone should be taking a picture of this. That's amazing. so you install this ad on for Google sheets that pulls automatically select Google analytics reports into a Google sheet for you. So you don't have to go into Google analytics all the time to look at your stuff.
And so this is a screenshot of what this looks like. we have a couple of things here, like users. This is unique website visitors. Then we have two goals in our business. One is, when somebody starts a new trial. And then when they become a paying customer and these are custom goals and Google analytics that we've set up.
And so it pulls this into a spreadsheet that I gave the first version of this to Denise on our team. And it was horrible and she made it very pretty like this. And this is, these are our metrics from the last month or so. And I don't have to do anything. I just have this Google sheet book marketing, and I go look at it once a week, right before her and I have a one-on-one call.
So I look at this and I say, Great. This is working. This isn't working. This is where we should focus our efforts. This thing we just started is awesome. Let's do more of it. and so we started doing this who knows this folks from the U S maybe know this, I don't know if this exists in Europe. Yep. What's the name in this game?
Yes, we play scorecard whack-a-mole so the idea here is you look at your scorecard, at least from our perspective from a marketing. lens. We look at this and we say, this number is great. This number is great. It's number sucks. Let's go get this number, And you work on this number until it doesn't suck anymore.
And so we play whack-a-mole, I, this is not my kid. I wish that would be great if this is my kid, but this is not. But, yeah. And so this is like a simple way to look at the whole of your marketing world and just say, let's do. The one thing, that's the worst right now. And we'll talk about leverage in a minute because that's really what this is.
It's what's the absolute worst thing that we can affect that will make a big difference in our business. So what, So yeah, that sounds great. And so the, so what is that your metrics should be, should guide your growth strategy. And so I think this slide sounds like really obvious, but I hope we can shed some more light on what this looks like from a practical perspective in a minute.
Let's be Lumberg right. And talk about some TPS reports. And so this is where the audience participation comes in. so we're a SaaS business doing 10,000 a month and we have an average revenue per user, 50 bucks. I'm very jealous of. and so let's consider a couple of scenarios. so this is the first scenario.
I'll give everyone a minute to digest this, the CC at sign up. So they're requiring credit card signup. Withdrawn talked about yesterday. The vast minority, so looking at this, I think this is a pretty typical, like early stage SaaS application. What is the mold that we all want to whack?
Yep. So the number here that we like to look for is like 2% awesome. 1% is, okay, this is not good. So you're doing a fair amount of work maybe to get 2,500 visitors a month almost nobody's turning into a trial. Trial customer or trial Byler. and then the rest of it is I think pretty good.
The one that's really sweet here is LTV of almost a thousand bucks. That's awesome. so let's look at scenario two, also with credit card, sign up. What's the most that we want to whack here? Yep. 10% churn. We replace all of your customers every 10 months. Yeah. Give me anxiety just thinking about it, What's that fresh energy, right? It's after lunch on the first day. On the second day. Yeah, we've got some energy. And so it leads us to like our rule of thumb, right? Rules of thumbs are very, flexible things, but this is like my rule of thumb. And I will see if anybody agrees with it. If you're trying to bake conversion ratio is greater than 35% with credit card up front or without credit card was greater than 15%.
And your revenue turn is less than 6%. Then you have just a top of funnel. You need more people on your website. If it's worse than that, you need to focus on retention and you probably don't have product market fit. Everybody cool with us like failing. This is, yes, this is no. Okay. I, this is what we go by.
and we are solidly in the category up here right now. We need just more people in our world. So that's a pretty cool place to be. You're a developer. Your product is awesome. Your messaging on site aligns with that. And the people that are signing up are expecting to get the value they get. So moving on to no credit card signup, which is where we are cast us now, we don't have a hundred thousand website visitors a month or 10,000.
That would be, Oh no, we do it. We don't have a hundred thousand. so where's the kind of ugly mole here that we need to whack.
Yep. 6%. this is rough, right? You're getting a whole bunch of people onto your site. They're starting a trial and they're saying your thing's horrible. I've never going to pay you money. There's also like Rob talked about yesterday, the onus is on you and you don't have credit card up front to prove the value of your product to those trialers.
and this is something we're getting used to. It cost us right now. We required a credit card up front for the first two and a half years. So a lot of the onus is on in marketing to say, Hey, our thing is so full, right? And they put the credit card in and they just convert after two weeks. Now, the onus is on us to convert those people, during the trial period.
How about the last scenario here? Also? No credit card upfront.
So the rest of this is great, right? Visitor to trial to pay churn. I hate your turn, right? 6%. Okay. It depends. But I think 6% is okay. And at this point, this is rule of thumb number two, and all the developers in the room, which is like almost, everybody's going to hate the rest of the talk now, because, if you have less than 30,000, it's an ambiguous number.
but if you don't have a ton of traffic to your site and the rest of your business is pretty good. Then you just need more traffic. and this is, this is a really tough thing for all of us to really grow and accept because it's an emotional thing to sell or embrace the marketing of your business.
What we're talking about is leverage right? Our communities lever. This is, we want to look for the single thing. We can turn this lever, this, and it moves a huge amount of business for us in the end. It's not. going back a couple slides. It's not getting our visitor to trial ratio, the 1.7, 5%, That's going to be a couple hundred bucks a month, but what if you tripled your website, traffic, that's some cheddar, right? And so that's what we're going to talk about for the rest of this. And this is like a tough thing. And even for me, I'm not a developer, I'm a marketer. Shouldn't be, cause I'm not a developer.
I have to be a sales and marketing guy, but we're all scared to do marketing and to really. Dive in and embrace the fact that we need to sell our stuff, within the tiny seed cohort. I think it's okay to talk about this guys. it is absolutely the one thing that everybody struggled with, right?
10 companies of successful multi-time founders. All of us every week are talking about how we can get more customers. very few of us are talking about. How can we build a thing it's more cool and maybe a little bit of design or something like that, but it all, a lot of that stuff ultimately goes to, how can I do better at sales and marketing?
Because we're all scared of it. this is it right? because the fear is I can go build a thing. All of you guys can go build a thing. That's really great. But there's a decent chance that all of us could, or many of us could dedicate ourselves to marketing and it failed. And then you've said, hi, I went all in on this thing and I couldn't pull it off.
And that's rough. Like emotionally, that's really rough. and so this is like rule of thumb number zero, right? Is that all the developers in here and even me, I'm not a developer, but I find myself falling into this trap a lot. Is that I lean on our development team, Instead of me going out and doing more marketing and figuring that part of the business, I say, and if we had this thing, we'd be set guys, when can we release this feature?
When, how about this integration? And that is not the problem, right? The problem, like if the rest of our SaaS metrics is good and that's what this assumes. If the rest of our SaaS metrics are good, Then we just need more customers. And the product will not solve that. There, I think are exceptions where like the product sells itself and all that.
And those people are not at this conference right there on those boats out there. but for the majority of us, we have to figure out how to sell our products easier and better. And that's, we'll talk about for the rest of our time. and so going back to like acquisition metrics, so really top of funnel, if you will stuff.
your acquisition metrics and where that kind of ugly mole is, should dictate how, when and where you talk to your customer. so who has heard of Eugene Schwartz? wait, cool. Couple. Yeah. So Eugene Schwartz, I think of him as he is the big guy from Madmen, right? Like he's an old school direct response marketer or an advertiser.
and so Eugene Schwartz wrote this book. That's now out of print than like to get it. It's 600 bucks on Amazon or something. And he talks about the five stages of a customer journey. We'll talk about the customer journey and how we all look can and do apply it to acquiring more customers and doing so in a really, appropriate way for those customers.
And so things that make a lot of sense for them. and so I have to give credit where credit is due. This concept was introduced to me by one of the tiny seed mentors, Taylor Hendrickson. so I love the Taylor's avatar photo is of him holding the beer. Cool. Taylor lives in hood river, Oregon, where they have fantastic beer.
and Taylor runs a marketing agency that helps staff businesses and e-commerce stores with exactly this thing. So it was like the perfect person to talk about it. Maybe he should be here talking instead of me, but. And so here's the gist of the show, great with the white font, the five phases of a customer journey, and it starts from the bottom and goes up, and the bottom is a place you don't want to be, right?
the bottom is a place where you're creating the market or you're creating the product in this market. And people are completely unaware that they have a problem or that there's a solution to it. Or there's a product that solves, the, that need that they have. and if you find yourself down here, you have a long time, the road ahead of you.
You have a product, a problem of educating the market on the problem, and that there's a solution. And that there's a product that builds what that solution needs to be, and that your product is the best one. And then they have to buy it. You have to go all the way up here. Some folks are problem aware and we'll talk, we'll give a couple examples that we'll just like specifically where some people are and how they attack this.
some people are problem aware and so they're like, I need a podcast hosting platform. Cool. Because I need to host my file somewhere. That's fair. So then you have to walk these folks from there is a problem. So there's a solution to your solution. Your product is the best one for them. And then from there and there.
So there's some people that say I need. A CRM to make my sales team more effective. Cool. it was about IO. It was.com. and then product there is I'm going to choose mixed bag channel or amplitude, and then that gets stuff. And so the, I think that the idea with some of this is that the higher up you get in this, the more difficult a lot of the marketing is because you are focused on smaller things.
So it might features this and that, rebates and discount codes and things like that. as you get up higher into this, and we'll talk a little bit more about some strategy around how you might think about entering this spectrum because people exist all along the spectrum and where you choose to enter and talk to your customers in the spectrum, talks about how, what kind of marketing you do and how long you might expect that some of this marketing takes.
So a few examples. So we're a podcast hosting platform. We have a couple of different customer personas. Some of them are existing gastros like myself, that might move from another tool like SoundCloud onto to Hostos that's one type of customer persona. We would talk to them in a different way than we would talk to new podcasts.
You probably pastors come in and laugh because it's an unenviable position for podcasting is really popular, but complex. It's not Oh, you spent a WordPress and you do a blog post. And it goes into the world. there's a lot to podcasting. A lot of people come in and say, I have no effing idea how to do any of this.
We have a lot of people that come into that. And that's cool because we can add a lot of them value by providing a ton of content around this. And that's what we do. And so here's a sample of like maybe what a funnel or a customer journey would look like is we have this huge how to start a podcast blog post.
and so a lot of people come to it organically. Some people come to it from ads that we run and they say, wow, this is a really cool, This is a really cool blog post, is probably those guys know what they're talking about. they may, they sign up for an email. First. We have a, 20 day how to start a podcast email course.
That's cool. And by the end of it, we pitched this thing called office hours, which is a live webinar. We run every week where we answer questions about podcasts. So all this stuff is the same. It's talking to the same person at the same point in their journey with the same topic, and then trying to answer and solve the same problem.
And the offer is, Hey, if you're a part of this email course, here's a coupon code to sign up. So all I did now, your permission to do this. So less accounting is, one of the tiny seed companies. And I know Paul really well. We talk every week. and so Paul is, less accounting is, accounting software for small businesses.
And their problem is, and I do my accounting, but it's a pain and I don't want to spend a lot of time on it and I want it to And so a sample kind of a customer journey for less accounting. And for Paul, it could be something like drive traffic to, what there's a two, a case study from one of his existing customers talks about how great Les counting is and how it saves them a ton of time.
Every week I was kind of stuff. Maybe then it's Hey, if you want to see more about less counting click here to view this demo, or Paul would go on a call with them and walk them through it. and then maybe we'd have a service about Hey, I'm going to solve this thing for you by making it super easy.
I'm just going to get all your books set up on your, on this platform for you or, use automated tools to make the, so we all heard from Steli earlier. Everybody knows what closes close the CRN. Yep. and so I think the customer persona here would be something like sales managers or directors or founders who wants to make their sales teams.
More productive, but also for them to have insights into what people are doing. Cause I manage a salesperson now and what the deal flow and the pipeline looks like is a big question I have as a founder. and so this is an interesting one that I think we'll spend some time talking about. Castelli is a really savvy guy.
Everybody heard him talk this morning. let's go here. So they write a metric strict ton of content around how to do sales better. And so Steli has dispelled some of this myth because you would consider that a lot of people looking for a CRM, like clothes are product aware, They know they need a tool to make their salespeople sell better.
And for the management team to have visibility into this. But I think what Steli has seen is that. That's a crappy place to be. Because then you're competing directly against pipe drive and Salesforce and the 8,000 other people in his space. And nobody wants to do that. Is anybody in a super unexpected, competitive space?
Anybody else in a super competitive space? Yeah. Do you try to attract and convert people really far down in the funnel and say, Hey, we have this feature that is better than everyone else. Yeah, you do. Is it going well?
Yeah, it sounds like it's going well. That's cool.
Yep. Yep. Cool. So that's a really good approach. That's a really good approach. So to go to the whole market, I think would be challenging. And so that's probably why you haven't done it is to say Close and pipe drive and Salesforce and all this, they basically do the same thing. So then coming into folks that are just product aware and trying to sell them on your thing versus everyone else's thing is skating.
so I think what Steli has done against he's a really savvy guy is he's gone up the ladder if you will, from here. And this is that I, this is where we'll leave things a little bit is there's not an answer to where you should talk to your customers. You should talk to them all the way through the spectrum.
but you should talk to them, the place that's the easiest and best for you. And maybe the place where your metrics tell you that you can provide the most value. And so Steli is down here, right? It sounded like the only way he can provide a moveable incentive for people is to lower his price or something that I know he would never do.
And so what he's chosen to do is to be a thought leader in the space. And go all the way up here, or maybe even here I would argue. And so Steli, and a lot of the really best brands we know, play all the way up in the problem, aware or the unaware side of the spectrum, and then follow their customers where customers follow them all the way through until they're ready to buy.
And I think this is the classic content marketing inbound approach that we see a lot of folks do. And I bring this up. Not that I think content marketing is the only way to go or the way you should go, because I think there are definitely people that can only focus further down in the customer journey, stage of things and talking about like old email, like you can do cold email and just sell people, like the folks from gathered.
And that's cool. And if you can do that, like a lot of us are MBS, right? Because you have a relatively straightforward, not simple, but a relatively straightforward thing to do. Like you have a tool. You can let folks know about it and convert them to the trialing and paying customers, hopefully. But if you think that is too hard to do, or you think you can't do that effectively at scale, then you have to move up the spectrum here to get folks earlier on in their journey.
as someone who's evaluating you, you as a solution or your market, and hopefully becoming a customer. Leanna was cool, everybody. Yeah. Right on. Cool. Thank you. And yeah, I think this is a, this is like wrap up and saying we should let our metrics guide where we focus our energy.
And then I think for the most folks in this room and myself included, like you built a good product. And so to, as much as you can devote yourself to marketing and understanding this customer journey. And approaching and talking to people at the appropriate point in their, and their journey as a buyer.
Hope you enjoyed that. Talk from Craig Hewitt and I'll be back next week with another microphone.

Viewer/Listener Q+A Episode with Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Thu, 29 Oct 2020 11:10:00 +0000

A Solo Rob Adventure!

During this episode, we are answering listener questions live from our MicroConf Connect members.

Rob answers questions about:

- Early Stage Validation
- Competitive Markets
- Youth Entrepreneurship
- Key Insights Around the TinySeed Portfolio
- Retirement Planning

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
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Hey
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@heyhey

MicroConf On Air Question and Answer Episode

Rob Walling: [00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode of MicroConf On Air. I'm your host, Rob walling live streaming direct from my bunker library here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So every Wednesday at 1:00 PM Eastern and producers, Andrew and I stream for 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing ambitious SaaS startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to value and maintain healthy relationships.

We believe that showing up every day and shipping that next feature, that next piece of marketing copy closing that next sale is the way to build a sustainable company. Thanks so much for, for joining me today. Today is an all ask Rob episode. We're going to be doing a live Q and a, we have some good questions coming in on Twitter and in the MicroConf on air channel in MicroConf connect.

If you're not part of MicroConf connect already should into Microsoft connect.com. We have more than I believe it's over 1600. Founders of bootstrappers and mostly bootstrapped founders in there hanging out and having conversations like this every day. And what I love is when I get into connect and there's a solid thread where I see a question and I go to, I know the answer to this, or I have a thought on this and I go in and there's already five amazing answers from other experienced founders who have done.

Exactly this and I don't even need to weigh in, because the answers are, are good and they're all, and they're all legit. So I am checking out some questions. So today, yeah, I normally intro my guest here, but you'll know me as the co founder of drip and MicroConf and tiny seed. Startups for the rest of us host and author starts small, stay small.

So I'm going to be answering a bunch of questions today. what are the, Oh, what are those books behind me? Yes. So it is definitely, a, a really nice book case here. I'll just show you a poll one book off the shelf, just so you can see. So here we are with the, this tome of no title, that actually, holds some silver age comic books for those who, are in the now missing Spider-Man number two there from 19, 63.

I think so. Yes. All questions today can be startup related, silver age comic book collecting related, and of course, Dungeons and dragons related. we really do, in all seriousness have some really good questions coming in and, It's nice that we have a producer, Sandra says so smooth. It's nice that we have such a, it's a really good audience.

It's a really great group creators that are here in microcuff connect and participating on Twitter. And just in this MicroConf averse. and I did an interview last week. If you haven't checked this out on indie hackers, Courtland Allen and I had a conversation for, yeah, it was about an hour and 10 minutes, really solid stuff.

Good questions from Portland. Good thoughts from him. And I was just weighing, and we were just talking about frameworks and advanced, and opportunities for launching SaaS in October of 2020. It was very specific to now, not five years ago, not 10 years ago. And that's actually spring on a few of the questions that we have today.

So I'm going to dive in there, but first I've had a request already for, tell a joke. So in true MicroConf dad joke, A tradition, this Fibonacci, Joe, coming to tell you it's as bad as the last two you've heard combined. So with no laugh track, it just normally, so at MicroConf there's all these groans and that there's groans and laughs and some people, clap, slow clapping, golf clapping me.

But without that, it loses a little bit. So my first question today is from no, we're BRAC. Thank you producers. And they're only a little bit. It's about 20 seconds late. So Noah Bragg from MicroConf connect asks. If you were starting a business today, I'm gonna assume it's a SaaS company and you were earlier on in your career.

Would you try multiple business ideas at once or go all in on one? This is a good question. So personally I would go all in is a. Is a deceptive phrase because I wouldn't just dive in and say, Oh, I have this idea. Oh, I've done some validation. Now I'm going to spend the next six months going all in on this idea.

That's not what I would do, but I would focus on launching and, validating. One idea at a time personally, I have a huge belief in focus, and I'm not saying you can't own multiple products at a time because I was the King of these micro portfolios back in the day where I had 10 different products generating revenue for me, but I didn't launch and grow 10 at once I launched or acquired and grew one at a time.

And then I figured out a way to make it sustainable and more, say more autopilot's at a misnomer, but. Mostly on autopilot for now is how I'll phrase it. It's on autopilot for the next three to six months until something happens that I have to circle back. But focusing on one thing, you get into the head space of it, all the information and content that you're consuming, you can adapt or think through how you can apply it to that one thing.

And I would be doing a ton of validation at every step. And so when I first come up with an idea, I always think 90%, this thing's going to work. And then with my 24 to 48 hour cooling off period, before I register any domain, which is what I do these days, I wind up falling down to 10 or 20%, certainty that this thing's going to work.

Then typically I say, okay, what's my next step to validate, how can I get myself to 25 or 30%? Oftentimes, it's sending a few emails to people. I know it's putting something on Twitter, asking opinions, it's having, face to face or in this case, these days zoom conversations might be putting up a landing page, driving traffic to it, whether it's from my podcast, whether it's from Twitter, whether it's from running cold ads, which I did back in the day when we were validating drip.

And I would just try to get that validation one step further, one step further. Now that's if I'm going to build. Maybe a larger, more novel product that doesn't exist in the space today. And I'm trying to validate the idea itself, but what if I know that there's a gap in the WordPress plugin market or that all the plugins that do polls on WordPress is just an example that they aren't very good or that I know that I can rank, it's not that hard to rank high in the WordPress repository is just a little bit of WordPress SEO.

The algorithm is not, it's not as complex as Google. It's not actually that smart. So maybe I don't want to validate that everybody needs a Poland plugin. Maybe I want to validate that I can just rank higher. So I get something in there or I email the top 10 poll plugins, especially the ones that haven't had been updated in two or three years.

And I say, can I adopt your plug in or can I buy your plugin? So these are ways that I would be going about, you don't always have to build the thing from scratch. but I think the question of multiple or one, which should you focus on, in my opinion, Unless you're stair-stepping. And even with stair-stepping I would focus on that.

I was going to do an info product that the bottom end or I would do, or that WordPress plugin or something, as step one. And then I would build on it from there. All right. How do you get your hair looking so good during a pandemic from Pat Foley will. Thank you, sir. I did wear a mask and I get haircuts.

That's the honest answer. So I didn't have, I had pandemic hair for the first four months because everything was shut down here, but we are still in, I don't even know what it's like stage one lockdown where you can go to places. Like I went to the gym the other day and we were a lot of face masks, but, knock on wood.

Minneapolis is not in, It's not doing as poorly as many of the States around us. And so I appreciate the joking question, but that is the honest answer. All right. Question number two, also from Noah brag and Microsoft connect, he's following up on the above question. He says, if building your first tiny product, like a WordPress plugin, Hey, that was my example.

And I often say info-product to WordPress plugin. There are Shopify ad-ons. There are Photoshop ad-ons. There are Google. App store Google Chrome store things you can build. There are, there's a myriad of them and I they're Magento ad-ons that, we can go on and on. anytime there's an app store, anytime there's an ecosystem that has something that you're not just battling to rank in Google for.

These are the types of step, one ideas that come up where, I would encourage people to look at. Okay. So if you're building a first tiny product, like a WordPress plugin, what level of customer research should you do? Is it more, you see a problem in ship something? Or should you take a more cautious approach and try to validate further before shipping?

I appreciate someone handing over money is the only real value to validation, but I'm trying to get an idea of how quickly you should move and whether it's a case of trying lots of small bats. Oh, that makes sense. It does make sense. I would tend to act pretty quickly and do. I wouldn't tend to do a bunch of customer validation calls or a bunch of customer development calls.

if I was going to do a small step, one thing I would validate almost in the start, small stay small approach. So you gotta to start small.com is my first book and while the exact tools and exact numbers that I use there may not be accurate today because it's 10 years old. The tactic, there was you find a small niche or you find, even, not a small niche, but with an underserved corner that you can somehow measure the interest.

And whether that's looking at a WordPress plugin and the repo and saying, Oh, it has this many downloads. So it's must be a popular search term. Or you go to the Google keyword tool or you go to H rafts or SEM rush, or Moz today. And you say, Oh, there are 5,000 searches a month for this thing. And there are a couple of tools, but they're not that great.

Or they've been abandoned. Or, there's ways to validate just using free or lightly paid, keyword tools and trying to find, Gaps in these market markets, or even these days, there's fewer gaps, but it's places where people have launched in abandoned, or they're really not doing a good job and you see an angle.

And then I would try to write some code quickly and move there. Now having a few customer development conversations or trying to figure out, Hey, where do these people hang out? That would use a plugin like this? Oh, they're in a Facebook. They're in a couple of Facebook groups become a part of those Facebook groups and participating they're in these Slack groups.

They're in these forums, these, discourse or discuss groups. There are ways to get this up to, I would say 20, 30, 40% validation, and to be able to write code and ship something in two weeks, three weeks for my bet, for my money, I'm probably going to write a little bit of code, and get it out there.

And the learning starts with every bit of validation and frankly, getting something out there quickly in this, if it's a small, small niche is not the right word, but if it is a micro idea, I would lean towards action more than trying to validate for months and months. Next question from Twitter, it's from Rami, he is King rum star on Twitter.

What advice would you give to someone entering a somewhat competitive market? Let's say five to 10 direct competitors, which is. Sounds ugly, but it's actually less ugly than CRM. Project management, software ESPs, marketing automation providers, where there are literally hundreds of players. So five to 10 direct competitors while that's a thing, not the end of the world.

More specifically, what would you do to out muscle? The competition when the resources are fairly equal, but the company, the competition has social proof and social capital. I would not try to out muscle the competition. If I did not have a lot of money or social capital or social proof that you're not going to muscle them.

So it's, there's this move in jujitsu or just the whole premise of jujitsu is you don't. If someone, you have a bigger opponent than you, you don't go head on with them and try to out strength them or out muscle them because they will win. What you do is you try to find that you tried to take their momentum when they punch or when they lunge at you and you actually.

Perry and you use their momentum against them to get them on the ground. And then you've grappled. Similarly, I would use my opponent's strengths against them. So an example is you have five to 10 direct competitors. They have social proof and social capital. What are they doing wrong? Are you in their forums?

Are there private Facebook groups? What are their customers complaining about? Where are they dropping the ball? Because customers are, or companies that get to. A million dollars in ARR, 10 million in ARR, they tend to be leaving out sections of the market that they just have to ignore. And they may be making people, disappointing a certain subset of their customer base or of their prospect base.

It's even better. If you get really big customers, these are the I'm sorry, really big competitors, because these are way easier to compete against companies like QuickBooks and. PayPal, think of Stripe launching as PayPal. I think of zero launching at quince, QuickBooks, think of drip, launching against Marchetto Pardot and infusion soft.

They're these big lumbering companies that aren't shipping very often and they aren't, they don't have the amazing UX that you can build from the ground up. And they aren't just doing hand holding with their customers and they aren't building the features that a subset or a vertical, of the customer set might want.

So I would start at the grassroots and I would start by trying to find five or 10. Unhappy customers that I could interact with and say, what are you unhappy with? And if you'll get someone on the phone and they'll just complain about everything, Oh, the app's impossible to use and it's too expensive.

And no one listens to my phone calls and I sent him 10 meals a week and they don't respond. Okay. That's a toxic customer. They're angry with everything all the time. They're going to be unhappy with you too goodbye. But then you'll get people who are they're pretty reasonable. And they're like, you know what?

They have ignored this corner of the market where photographers have special, I'm making this up, but photographers have special bookkeeping needs and their tax is calculated differently. And QuickBooks has just not listened suddenly. It's Oh really? who else could support photographers?

tax bookkeeping, accounting needs, who, what other things have you tried to fix this? And it's I've looked and there's not. An app that does this and will then it's okay, can I find 10 more photographers or, salon owners or whoever it may be startup founders.

And that's where I would start is how do you find that subset, if you have all this competition that is being left out. The other thing I would think about if you're already in the space and you try to look for the hated competitor and do the become the opposite of them, you, if you can't figure out a unique positioning where it's we are like, QuickBooks, but not, we're the opposite of QuickBooks because we suck last or we like QuickBooks, but we're for this particular vertical.

So think of like savvy cow, right? So there's Calendly and there's all these big competitors. But look at what Derek Graham is doing with savvy Cal, you got a savvy, cal.com to check it out. He's basically saying. It's for, busy startup founders and executives who have some pretty specific needs and want to maybe guard maker time and want to eliminate the awkwardness of sending a calendar invite.

And he's taken a pretty specific tack there. He's taking a unique position in the space. So that's one way, another way in these competitive spaces is to have a unique traffic channel. So that is you look at that. Yeah. What someone like maybe Ruben Gomez is doing with a doc sketch, which is e-signature doc sketch.com.

That's a, it's a terribly crowded space with bill, literally billions and billions of dollars in market cap are in that space. And yet he has figured out a way to do amazing content marketing, amazing SEO, and just channel some of that traffic to where he is being highly successful in a competitive space.

If I was going to go in to summarize, if I was going to go into a competitive space like this, I would look for a hated competitor. I would look for areas where that competitor is dropping the ball with either a specific audience or specific for people. I would look to position myself uniquely, or I would look for a unique traffic channel or all of the, if you had all of the above, that's where we actually would.

Drip. We had, I think, three of those four. Every one of those you have is better. If you only have one, you can still make it work. It's just more of an uphill battle. So thanks for the question, Rami. I hope that was helpful. All right. I'm checking in on Slack here. All right. Producers. Zander is going to keep, alright, Chris producers and keep popping the questions in here.

It looks like there's a lot coming into Slack and I will keep moving. I'm checking my time. Okay. I'm about 15 minutes in. next question is from Garrett Lancaster. From Microsoft connect. He said, if you had a slow growing 12 K MRR, self-funded B2B SaaS. I love the specificity of this. So doing about 150 K a year, self-funded B2B, SaaS.

What questions would you be asking yourself? And I think he's implying it's slow growing. So what questions would you be asking yourself to get it growing faster? How much do you think about retention versus conversion in this position? Okay. I would be well. So I would look at if I, if my retention was not high, I have a problem because if I remember tension is not high, then I'm going to use this phrase that is it's product market fit.

And I know that's just big muddy amorphous thing, but all it means is are people sticking around? Do people love your product? Do they, do you know, do they stick around? Is your turn below six, 7%, your aggregate churn below that number? It depends on price point. Depends on a bunch of stuff, but yeah. If you're below 5%, then I would not be worrying about retention now.

And I would be looking about, at increasing traffic and increasing conversion. The big question to ask is where. Where's the metrics gap. If you're churning out 10, 12, 15% a month, that's the number one problem. That's what you have to fix before you do anything else. That's where I found myself when we were building drip, eh, we were about, I'm trying to think.

We were a few months after launch and we had grown to eight, 10 K a month and we just were turning everybody out. So that was a big retention problem. You can watch my Microsoft talk. The inside story of self-funded. SaaS growth. I believe it's called and it's from, whatever 2014, 2015, if your retention is fine and people get on and then turn, goes to, goes really low for people.

then of course it's how much traffic, what's your visitor to trial, signup rate or visitor trial should be, I'd like around 1%. If I'm asking for credit card and I'd like about. 15% give or take maybe 20% if I'm not asking for credit card. And if I'm substantially below those, then of course you have a.

Trial conversion problem. If I'm asking for credit card upfront trial to paid, I want to be between 40 and 60%. If I'm below 40%, I have a problem. you can look in the state of independent SaaS from 2020 and look at what other people, what other conversion rates are, or you can look at, Craig Hewitt's talk from microcopy Europe in what was just last year in 20, it feels five years ago.

It was this last October. And it's something about, viewing your metrics, maybe producers and or composts that in the Microsoft connect Slack. But he basically walked through, walks through rules of thumb rules of, And then says, these are the things to pay attention to. If you're outside, if you're below these rules of thumb, otherwise move on to the next thing.

And at a certain point you get towards my whole funnel is actually pretty solid. Now I'm just going to drive more traffic. I need to spend money on ads. I need to spend money on content. I need to do integrations. I need to go on podcasts, whatever it is, then let's just see as you get more traffic, your conversion rates and almost inevitably drop.

And then you have to figure out how to then cater to those new folks. Next question is still from Garrett. He says, how would you go about offloading tier one customer support, meaning frontline, let's say it's, Intercom chat or it is, user list, messaging or it's email. How would you go about offloading it when quality support slash training, he's an integral part of your business model.

Everyone who has this question says when quality support slash training is it's an integral part of your business model. It's an integral part of every early startups business model. It always feels like the founder much. if I'm a developer, I write the best code in the world. I always feel like I can give the best support.

And in many cases that's relatively accurate, but how would you go about it? You find someone who's really fucking good. That's what you do. You don't settle for someone who isn't going to learn your tool and who isn't going to be ravenous about, really wanting to make people happy and learning your tool.

And I had a non-technical non-developer support guy that I worked with from, I think it was about 2011, 2012, all the way through when we were acquired, then he worked with drip through 2018, 2019. And he was not a developer, but he figured out how to view source. He would go dig into people's JavaScript and hack around in it.

obviously on his client side, he wouldn't hack their website. He learned, I taught him how to use FTP. He learned how to edit HTML. Like he was just teaching him this stuff. In self this stuff. And he would sometimes ask me for a loom, a quick screen cast about stuff, but for the most part, he went out and educated himself.

And so was he in the early days? Was he the fastest responder to tickets ever will know cause he was teaching himself stuff. But by the time he was, working on drip for a year or two, he knew the product. He knew how to answer support way better than any of us, way better than me, way better than the developers.

And that's the kind of person you're looking for. And how did I find them? I went on Upwork. And I went through two or three support people until I found a guy who was really good. He was working for a bunch of companies at once. He was doing three hours for me and five hours a week, then 10. And eventually I said, I just want to hire you.

Full-time I was good to work with. He really, we got along, we never did video chat. We never actually met in person. You lived in Mexico. And that was it. Many of you, if you email drip and you, Andy responded to every support request for the first like three and a half years of drip, I think it was three and a half.

Maybe it's two and a half. Every single frontline support was just one guy, Andy. And that's what you do. That's what I would do today. Hire good people. Next question from Pablo and Microsoft connect. How do you feel about entrepreneurship being taught to children? Do you think it should be taught? Have you witnessed good execution of teaching children?

Entrepreneurship? I. I feel good about it with a caveat. my son had course in eighth grade, or maybe it was freshmen in high school and it was teaching him stuff about intellectual property. It was trademarks and it was logos and he had to design a logo and, so were they teaching him everything we learned in MicroConf of course not.

But did he learn some basics that he didn't know the difference between trademark and copyright and some basic fundamentals? I thought that was good. I do think. Every, I think all of us in high school slash college should learn something about entrepreneurship, something about, how businesses work, something about personal finance, to be honest, that's not, why is that not taught in school?

Why do none of us know what, like really how the stock market works? You have to go educate yourself. You have to go seek that out. And that to me, or how to just simply, find a budget and stick to it. That to me, it's a real problem that is not taught to, or whether it's, again, whether it's our children, our probably our high schoolers and we have civics and economics right.

Where we learn about the economy and nobody pays attention about the, the three branches of government. I'm only joking. Of course people pay attention, but I think a personal finance and something about entrepreneurship, I think they should be exposed to it. To know, this is what entrepreneurship might look like and are examples of people who are making caramels or cookies in a local kitchen.

And you could do a tech startup and raise funding or not, or you could start an online business. I do think just being exposed to that would be super helpful for children. yes, I do think it should be taught. I can't think of an amazing example of anyone who's done it. I will give a spoiler that I don't know, she's announced this, but dr.

Sherry walling, my wife is writing a book called. it's like raising entrepreneurial children or something like to that effect. That's the working title. So go to the Zen, founder.com and sign up for her email list. If you wanna hear about it, of course, I'll be talking about in the future. I may even contribute a chapter or two Sherry and I had his in founder episode awhile back that, or is it in front of episode, in the first maybe 30 episodes?

That was all about raising entrepreneurial kids. If you want to check that out, next question. What are things you notice about bootstrap that bootstrappers commonly overlook that are preventing them from achieving their goals? I think a lot of bootstrappers overlook the fact that you have to market that it's not about building products.

I think bootstrappers, don't pay enough attention to their metrics. We see their analytics or their metrics, and they just want to go through and it's Hey, they don't even know what's working. And you ask someone a question and they say, what's working is. Word of mouth and it's yeah, I know.

I th I have slacks coming in. Word of mouth is, usually the wrong answer. So there, I think there's a lot of mistakes that people make. And I think if they pay attention to. a lot to MicroConf talks point this out and a lot of the teachings from, I would say listening to startups for the rest of us, even nugget.one, which is a pretty interesting website, just in a Vincent has a pretty interesting course there.

So yeah, I think there's. There are definitely the common mistakes building before finding an audience building before validate not an audience, but a customer based building before Valley. And I think these are a lot of things that right. People do. And I think people give up too easily. I think they build something, it goes to a plateau and they give up instead of actually doing the hard work.

I think it's a lot more hard work, than people I realize I'm zipping through these questions. Cause there's three minutes left.

Another question. This is from vagi. Go out from Cheflytics. He says, what are some of the biggest takeaways you can see across your portfolio of early stage SaaS companies? Is it one winner, a one or two winners generating most returns, VC style. Is it steady progress by most? Will the majority be default alive businesses? The answer is yes. The vast majority are already default to live businesses, I think, Oh, I think every one of the 13 companies, a batch two is default alive, pretty sure.

And if I were to put a number in at 70% of batch one - maybe 80%- are default alive. All of them are making steady progress. All of them. of 23 companies, there's maybe two or three that are still. not growing two or three, four, it's a small number. So what is that?

I don't know. Maybe 10, 10, 15% are still trying to find that repeatable channel is still trying to find that, repeatable customer base. But, it is definitely steady progress. I don't know yet on the winner. I don't think it's going to be one to take all.

Einar did analysis of a bunch of SaaS apps. He got a bunch of anonymized data and he looked backwards over the last five years. And it, if you do look at returns that it was not winner take all, but it was definitely a power law and power law just means there are a small amount who get 10 or a hundred times larger than the others.

And so in that case, yes, that, in that sense, yes, we may get there. But we are still, we want to, I've been doing for 15 years. There's a reason MicroConf, Startups for the Rest of Us, my books and TinySeed exists and it's not to help the winner-take-all. It's to help everyone.

I want to raise the tide. so all the boats go up. And yes, even if the returns are generated in that VC style winner, take all, I will still be around. And still be here to help everyone involved.

Question from Patrick Foley, have you ever built a business that got a fairly large portion of its revenue from services instead of products, but not just you consulting?

Yes. One. I think one, I can think of it. It's called CMS femur. It was a productized service before that term existed. It was @ cmsthema.com. I don't even know if there's a website there anymore. I ran it for about 18 months, two years. I acquired it from someone who wanted to shut it down. I knew how to rank it in Google.

I got it to the top, top page at the top page, the first page of Google for WordPress theming and some other things were present Drupal and Joomla. And then I just had an agency. I believe they were in. India. There was somewhere that source two for cheap. I marked them up a hundred percent.

So I would try to $500 for you. Send me a PSD. I would send it to my agency in India. They charged me 250 bucks to turn it into a theme. I would send it back. And make 500 bucks. And so it wasn't a productized subscription service, but it was these one off themes. And then as custom stuff happened, we would increase the price.

if you needed a bunch of, if you needed mobile responsive back in 2009, then it was obviously more money. So yes, I have, It was fine. It was quite a bit of hassle, more hassle than I, I had that along with a bunch of software products and e-commerce and stuff. And it was okay.

I wound up selling it for CMS Themer, still, not still live, not quite the same as its original iteration producers, Andrew posted that micro co-founder. So it looks like, there's all kinds of funky stuff going on. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's any takeaways I have from that. I like, okay.

Services are a great way to get started quick. These days, especially subscription services, like you look at audience ops from Brian castle, or you look at podcast motor from Craig Hewitt and there's other examples. And they get thinking up to, whatever 20, 30, 40,000 a month in no time.

And then yes, you have to have process in place. You have to have people to manage. There. There is, it's not a software product, but you learn a lot. It's probably 70, 80% the same. As building a SaaSs and then Craig Hewitt levered it up, To then acquire a PO was plugged into then build cast dos.

And now, everything's combined. Yeah, no one it's like a match made in heaven, but it's like a chef's kiss to the store. Your step approach in a way is building these businesses and building on top of each other. All right. We are two minutes over onto one more question from Christophe Engelhart.

How do you prepare financially or otherwise for your retirement? It's a good question. I like personal finance. I'm a bit of a nerd with this stuff. So before I had sold drip, we, I was contributing to retirement for most years, for both sharing. I putting them in the U S their IRAs or 401ks. I did stop.

I will admit when at the worst times of drip, when it was growing fast and we had cash crunches, I stopped contributing to retirement. My bet was that drip would make enough money in the end, whether through an acquisition or whether through throwing off cash, that it would make up for that. The bet worked out for me.

It's not gonna work out for everyone, but by the time we sold drip, I believe between sharing my retirement accounts, we had about $300,000, which I was late thirties. Is that right? And it might've been early forties. I would prefer to have more by then. But I did, when I looked at compounding and how it was growing, we would have had, I'd say a couple million bucks when we retired, but I also counted on having a lot more earnings and being able to put money in.

So for me, it's about saving early. I started contributing right out of college. In fact, if you can do anything for your kids or nephews or whatever, especially, a comment on the U S cause I know the retirement system here, but if there is a retired, attack shielded retirement account, like an individual retirement account called an IRA here, as soon as your kids get any income.

Match what they make, give and put the money you can put up to $5,500 as of this taping into a retirement account. If you can put it in when they're 15 or 16 compound interest. Is the eighth wonder of the world. I believe Albert Einstein said that. And so the earlier you get, if you invest at 15 versus 30, you get two more doublings of that.

If you invest in the stock market. So put it all in high risk stuff. I would be a hundred percent in stocks and if you're making 8% per year, then it's going to double every nine years. If you make 9% per year, it's gonna double every eight years. So from 15 to 30, you get almost two doubles of that. if you put in five grand, it becomes 10 grand, then 20 grand, by the time they're 30.

So if you don't contribute, if they don't contribute till the third, they have to contribute $20,000 to have the same impact that you do. when they're that young earlier you can contribute. that's, I started putting money in when I was 22 and just a little bit, I didn't have much money.

I wasn't making much, I make 15, 17 bucks out of college per hour. And that, but I started putting 50 bucks, a hundred bucks a month away as early as it possibly could so that you man, thanks so much joining me today that is going to wrap us up for hanging out with me a little longer.

Last joke: Can you imagine if one day Microsoft acquired WeWork and named it Microsoft office.

We do have some special podcasting stuff coming up soon. We're going to have some voting and some nominations I'm teasing that. So keep your eye out MicroConf.com and thank you as always to hae and Stripe for supporting microphone, the headlines partners for the year.

Love working with them. Thanks for joining me. I'll see you next week.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 16: Cheap & Easy Customer Support - Sarah Hatter

Rob Walling — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 05:43:00 +0000

Learn how to offer your customers amazing support over email and Twitter, create a fanatical user base, and how to avoid the quagmire of 1-star reviews.

Check out Sarah’s MicroConf speakers page for more talks → https://microconf.com/speakers/sarah-...

MicroConf 2012

#microconf #microconf2012

MicroConf Connect → http://microconfconnect.com

E-mail → support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

► Stripe https://stripe.com

Twitter → https://twitter.com/Stripe

► Basecamp https://basecamp.com

Twitter →https://twitter.com/Basecamp

Rob Walling: [00:00:00] this week's MicroConf refresh episode where we play the audio of a past. MicroConf talk. Usually one of the top rated talks of all time. I am your host, Rob Walling, and today's talk is from 2012. We are going back in the archives. The talk is from Sarah Hatter of Co-Support. And it's called Cheap and Easy Customer Support.

She says, learn how to offer your customers amazing support over email and Twitter, create a fanatical user base and how to avoid the quagmire of a one-star reviews. Sarah Hatter is a multi-time Microcom speaker, and she has forgotten more about customer support than most of us will ever learn. So I hope you enjoy this talk from Sarah Hatter.

Sarah Hatter: [00:00:49] yeah. Hi everybody. This is going to be super fun because I'm weaseled my way into getting my Q and a stuff built into my time. So we're going to do three things in my talk. We're gonna talk about who I am, why I'm here. We're going to do some real world examples of how you guys can be doing support faster, better, easier, cheaper, smarter, funnier, all that stuff.

And then if you, once I thought that we could also do. Sorta some life lessons about, Ooh, sorry, starting a business because I've only been in this business myself for a year. I've been in the web scene for years and years. And we'll talk about that in a second. do you guys want to hear about that kind of shit or do you not want to hear about that shit?

You wanna hear about it? Okay, cool. okay. So let's start real quick with, me who I am, what I am doing here and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So I'm super passionate about customer support for apps. I think that we are in a really great place where we're finally at this awesome plateau of.

Having customer support, that's awesome and accessible and educational for people is as important as fast code and great slick design and all of you guys in the room know it. And I love that. So many of you guys are doing this yourselves for your own apps and that you're taking that on from the very beginning because it sets a tone for the customer support the rest of it, the app life.

I started coach support last year, this year. So we've been in business for, I don't know, Over a year, which I can say. and literally I have been doing customer support for 16 years. My very first job was working at a call center for shit. You buy on TV, like ShamWows and stuff. When I was like 15 and yeah, it was horrible.

One of the ones that we sold was, a radio ad for you could call in and get a spiral bound notebook that lists all the brothels in Nevada. And so it was all truckers that would call and I was like 15 years old and sure.

Rob Walling: [00:02:41] Where are you going, sir?

Sarah Hatter: [00:02:42] So I started doing that and then, I don't have any kids either.

I'm not married, but I didn't want to leave out like a kid photo, but I, so I thought, I just show you a picture of me with a mullet in fourth grade.

I'm right there in the middle, if you couldn't tell. And the great thing about this photo is because I obviously know what I'm doing, I've been doing it for a long time and yes, you've probably heard of my last job, blah, blah, blah. It was a really great place to work. I learned a lot being there and they're really good, wonderful people.

And I like everything about them and they're really wonderful. And you should all like them as friends and be friends with them. so anyway, I don't work there anymore. One of the reasons I don't work there anymore is because I think that since you're really great, smart, wonderful people, they did a lot of really smart things. And so I wanted to talk about some of the smart things that happened when I worked there. One of those being that they launched a product with zero customer support, they didn't think it was important whatsoever.

They didn't have a support staff for their product for almost three years until I begged them to let me take over support because I was. Actually embarrassed working there, the products, the customer support for the product was just really bad. And then on top of that, they really never ever thought that customer support was as important as designed.

And so it never got the resources of anything else. It was the least, it was most underpaid and the least focused on part of the whole company. So very smart. Really smart stuff again. Good people. and the other thing too, is that support was always an afterthought. They'd build these products, they'd build these products and then they'd bring me in and say, so we built this product and here's what it does.

And I'd say, you can't do that. That's going to just cause support. People are just going to have to write support for that. And they'd say, yeah. so anyway, I think that the problem with these smart things that happened at this great company was that. They learn from those mistakes too late. And they ended up building up around this whole philosophy of say no to customers and say no to feature requests and don't listen to them, just build your app and you build it, how you like it, which is great.

If you're, you want to do that. But at the end of the day, we're now in a place where we need to build apps based on what people want and what people need and what people are asking for. And so we've all learned. That's the better way to go. So how many of you guys are doing support for your app by yourself?

You do it. Yes. I love all you people. How many of you guys are using a help desk? Like a user voice. Who's really super awesome. Or desk or Zendesk or awesome. Awesome. Awesome. you don't need to do that by the way. All of you guys are micro founders. You're micro entrepreneurs. I don't know how many of you guys are profitable, but you shouldn't be spending even $49 a month to do any of that shit.

I'm not. And so you make 10,000, $12,000 a month. You should not be paying for a help desk solution right now. So we're going to talk a little bit about what you can do instead. That's literally like super cheap, super easy. We're going to start with emails, forms, and inboxes. I'm rushing through this, but I want, I can see everybody all the way in the back of the room.

So if you have questions, please raise your hand and we'll take the question during the talk instead of waiting to the end. so how many of you guys have heard of turbo scan? Do you guys use it? It's an awesome app. It's one of the top paid apps in the iTunes app store. It's an app for your phone.

I think for your iPad too, you can take a picture of anything and turn it into a PDF. It's amazing. I use it for contracts all the time and it's crazy, wonderful, and very popular. So what happens if you don't understand how to use this app? This top paid iPad app, that's all over the place that Apple advertises.

If you go to turbo scan.com, this is what you get. Please email us. We answered most support emails within a few hours. Thank you. So that's it. This is URL. I think it's turbo scan, app.com. That's it. There's nothing else on the page. And the funny thing about this is besides the fact that it's totally fucked up to do this to your customers.

They don't write you back. I've written them 17 times since December, and I've never gotten an email response. So the second thing that's wrong with doing a page like this is you're giving the customer an out number one, because a customer is going to see this and no, thanks. Forget it. I'm not even writing them, but two, you're not gathering any data from them whatsoever.

You're not getting a subject. You're not getting any way to triage emails. You're not getting any way to. Run analytics on emails that come through based on time zone or device or any of that stuff. And what ends up happening is you get an inbox that I'm going to show you. This is one of our customers that we just started doing support for you get this name and the URL.

This is horrible. This is horrible for any sort of support. And if you did look at this all day long, you wouldn't want to do support either. So instead, the best thing that you could be doing just to start is to build a contact page, a contact form that gathers information and allows the customer to set the tone of the email, set, any tags, gathers information about their device and all that stuff.

This is another one of our customers readability. We built this form for them and we give the customer the opportunity to say. I have an issue with this specific thing. I have an issue with the iOS app, the Android app, the mobile website. I have a feature request down at the bottom. I'm even a developer and I want an API key, really specific things.

So this does all the work for you, which means when you get to your inbox, the next day, you're seeing everything right there in front of you. It's tagged all this, all these tags are that you can run analytics on the tags. You can scan through this first thing in the morning and pick out every single thing that's I can't log in or I have a problem or this thing sucks.

You can leave all the other stuff for later and it gives you a way to control visually how you go into your support. Does anybody do this right now? Yes, you're. You're an Oregon organizational kind of person. Do you have, does this for your clients, or do you have your customers to do it or for your own apps that you're doing that for your own apps?

Perfect. I think that everybody should be doing this even for their own personal email. You should have personal email folders that you're putting stuff into reply later. Reply later. I don't want to do this reply now. Another inbox. I wanted to show you too. This is from desk, which is a paid app. Like I said, you don't really need to use pay to apps.

I got this great screenshot from Heaton. This is their Gmail inbox actually for Kissmetrics. And once you can see is they have multiple people using one Gmail inbox and multiple email addresses going right into one inbox. And they're able to prioritize using the little superstars function that you can enable under your Gmail settings and all of their emails come in and are tagged with people's names, meaning that person's going to go answer it.

Or this is a bug. This is a bug and IE, this is crazy smart stuff. And they're like a billion dollar company, I think. I don't know. I think I've just flattering him at this point, but this is like the super smart thing to do the other really smart thing to do again. You can shift all this stuff out of your inbox.

So you're not seeing it. So Cindy can have her own folder and only Cindy goes into their emails that are about IAE, go into one folder. You can send them to a developer to do The other thing that Kissmetrics does, and they're also a code support customers. So maybe that's what I'm talking about them so much is that they offer the selected issue.

Tell us about the issue, but way up at the top, we see, how can we help you? The first thing that they say is, have you checked out our support site? Meaning that they've actually are making the self-service for people. You don't have to email me, go find information like right here, and this can link to a help section.

It can link to a customer forum. It can link to get satisfaction. It can link to any sort of historical data that you have online that's documentation based. So this is another screenshot of what we did for readability. This is also in desk, but you can see that we have categories about all this stuff and each one of these, how to use it apps for iOS.

All of these have multiple articles. And each article is maybe two, three sentences with a screenshot. That's it super easy. It'll take you a Saturday to do it all. You could probably get a hundred of them up. And the great part is right at the top it's searchable. So your customers can just type in anything and search it.

Anyone doing this yet for your app? you don't count Philly. If you haven't thought about doing this, think about doing it right now, this would be the very first thing that you do even before you start on support hiring and all that kind of jazz. Get a searchable. Yes. This is desk.com formerly assistly.com.

Now Salesforce pretty much any help desk solution will offer this built-in they call it a knowledge base. and it's wonderful. You can also build this yourself in HTML, but it's a little bit easier using a service because it's like. Old timey like tight pad or blogger interface with the select a picture.

So if you want to use something like this it'll cost you it's free for two users. So again, a really great free option. If you want to add more users, it's $49 a month. So any questions on that stuff? I know you have him through these, so we can get to question time. I'm really interested in this because it seemed like you were saying that you preferred is he self service.

Totally. Oh, you're trying to push me away. I'd like to talk to him. you can do both. It's all about presentation. I think that when you're in a state of developing an app, a customer form is really important because you're getting customers to talk about stuff. You're seeing stuff in public, and it's a historical record of what people are questioning you about asking for information for and how it's also helping.

When you have someone post on a forum, this doesn't work. How does it work? I don't like this. They're identifying design plus for you. So that kind of stuff is really great. When you have a searchable index like this, you can track what people are searching for. You can track what the top hits are on your help section.

So you get a better sense of what's confusing people. What do they not know? What am I not presenting well enough in the app store? What's not in my description that people are asking me. I think that it's wonderful to be completely transparent and open and let people email you all day long. But I think that most customers just want to get the answer online.

So like when we see the app for turbo scan, it's just an email address. That's not very educational for me. There's no other option whatsoever. It's you want to find a nice middle ground where people have accessibility to you, but they also have accessibility to education.

Anyone else? More questions? Okay. This is a super easy one. Prioritizing, does anybody have a really good trick for prioritizing email so that they get it done quick and they don't kill themselves at the end of the day?

Oh, what's this

reschedule things later on. That's amazing. So I love that idea. I use folders for it personally in Gmail, I use labels and like I said, move it out of the inbox. And then the great thing about Gmail or folders is that you see an unread count. So you can go to it at your, whenever you want. Yes, Corey. I'll use a followup that CC too.

I'll just essentially say set a one day reminder or six hours or tomorrow, like all kinds of stuff, whether we followed up and I can actually perfect. Yeah. That's stuff is great. All that kind of stuff. Follow up, get to it later. Get to it later is great. What I like to do, especially if I'm the only person there doing support, which many of you are, is to figure out what I'm going to do first? What matters to me now? What matters for later?

Which what's the stuff that I can push on for later. So easily. The very first thing is scanning the inbox like we did with the subjects and the tags for anyone saying I can't log in. Something is broken. These are indications that you need to stop what you're doing and look at the email. And you can look at an email for someone saying, can't log in and read it in two seconds and know whether they're just an idiot or something's broken.

So that's important. The next thing, obviously, this isn't working, I need help. I need billing issues. The reason that these two are like top of mind priority for support and should always be answered every single day is because they're paying customers. Not only their paying customers, but if they're paying customers and things, they have a login for your whole website, it means that they also have access to rating you online.

So what we find with customers, and when we find, when we do brand salvage of companies that have had a really bad support run, and they're trying to figure out what they can do better is that overwhelmingly people that write iTunes reviews or app store reviews are saying no one ever got back to me from support.

And we go and check because we can track those people. We can look them up and see, did we reply to them? Usually they posted their review a day after setting their support request. So this kind of stuff is really important. And all of the app stores now require that you have accessible support information in your app store description.

If you go through, if you're in the app store, if you're in like even a Chrome app store, you're anywhere you're even on Twitter, like start Googling and searching for what people are saying about your support, your accessibility, and, use that as a way to prioritize what you should be doing. The next thing, the next two things, I think go hand in hand they're sales emails.

How does this work? Does it do X, do you have this feature? And then of course, feature requests. We all love feature requests. Is there anybody in the room who does not reply to feature requests? Awesome. Yes, we're all on track already. Everyone should reply to a feature request. I don't care if you do it today or tomorrow or next week, but you need to reply to them.

And the other great thing that you should think about using as a tool is text expander is your friend, is anyone used it? Yeah. So write your scripts, write them with little blanks that you fill in. Say, thanks so much for your vote on this. We don't have plans to offer X right now. We love hearing from you.

Send us more ideas. That kind of stuff, use tools that help you get through this stuff easier because if you're letting stuff back up or you're putting things in folders where you're going to follow up on it later, it's going to be a slug to get through. Okay. Any questions on that? That stuff's easy.

The next thing. I hate Twitter. I hate Twitter so much that I ran a script recently to block people on Twitter because it doesn't work for my username since it's like sh I get anything that anyone ever types into Twitter with at sh anything on it. I get the responses to I'll give anybody in this room a thousand dollars if they can fix it for me.

but I want to talk about Twitter because Twitter is a great free, cheap, easy. Useful way to do support and it's index by Google. It is a historical record of conversations that you have with your customer. It's a historical record of like accessibility that you are have as a brand to you tweeting out updates, you tweeting to, favorite users and all that stuff.

Can anybody guess what? My very favorite Twitter account for customer support is like the best Twitter account out there. Who's doing great customer support on Twitter. Anyone. Not Zappos. Anyone else? Corey and Eric taco bell at taco bell. Everybody go and look at it right now. It's amazing. Let's read through some of their awesome Twitter's right now.

Okay. Check this one out. Is it possible for me to have intercourse with your food? technically, but we prefer you just eat it like a civil human being, That's I have another one. This is great. It only gets better. Check this one out. I love you. That's all best tweet ever. They're so wonderful.

The next one, I think the Dorito taco sucks that makes you and nobody else.

It's incredible. Yeah. These are just from a couple of days ago. Like I just do this a couple of days. It goes. Cause I wanted them to be new and relevant. The next one. Do you guys sell hot dogs? Let me check. No. Yeah, this is awesome. Shit. This is awesome. Shit. And so one guy it's one guy, he was hot. He was initially hired as a social media intern and now he's taken it over completely.

So it's pretty awesome. And this kind of freedom that you have with customers. Is going to elicit raving loyal fans because there's no bullshit here. There's no, I'm sorry. You don't like our Doritos taco Locos. Maybe you'll like our blah, blah, blah, blah. They is that makes you a nobody else.

Awesome. And it's taco bell, it works with their brand, do have a voice at a tone that works with your brand. That's fun and engaging. This is another really cool, like a whole conversation that my friends and I were in. About taco bell. And they actually were like pacing yourself as overrated.

Overrated. Let's do this because my friends said I'm going to eat Doritos all weekend long. Like people, this is the kind of conversation you want people having about your app and your service and your company having it in a fun way. Last one, Corey who's in the room. Mrs. No tweet leaves, no talk related tweet unturned.

I love it. Their responses. Or trying to believe that like they're just into it, this kind of stuff is really inspiring for anybody who wants like a free, easy resource to engaging with your customers. Do you guys think that you should reply to every single person on Twitter? do you think that you should reply to every single person who like mentions you on Twitter?

Yeah.

Tell me your answer.

Why would they use my name? If they want me to know.

that's a little bit different. if someone is actually writing to you specifically at D absolutely. You should respond to everybody, you should respond to everybody and just be fun and friendly. Because what we learned from looking at the taco bell is language is important, but so is having fun and not being super buttoned up corporate about your app and your company and being professional.

I hate professionalism so much. okay. So that's that? That's the Twitter stuff. Does anyone have any questions about that kind of stuff? Yes. I use my personal account, but people use it as a customer support channel. That happens to me too.

personally I myself in this position. So I just have to give up on that. And if you have a personal account, I do need somebody to monitor it. Yeah. I think you should use whichever one has had has a sort of built up audience of fans using it. And if you want to have a private account, create a personal private account without sight, that's never going to happen again.

But if you or your brand, or if you were known for your brand, like I'm known for my brand, whatever, and people I think already know that I don't get at replies. So a lot of people will reply to my company account, which we never used because. I'm the brand. So if you want to separate the two, I would certainly suggest now if you guys haven't done this already have a private, personal account, you can still use your face as the brand and still use that other account customers.

Anything else about Twitter? Yes. Question as much as you call it. One thing I didn't notice

Very cool. So yeah, he said, if you guys didn't hear him, he's seeing that he leaves the messaging on his mobile. is it like your, the mail app or whatever the signature that just says sent from my iPhone or set well mobile. And it's a really great indication to his customers that he's always available and accessible.

I think that's great. You shouldn't be doing that during dinner though. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to move into the last little segment about real life customer support stuff. Some of you guys saw me talk about this a few times before this year. language that's used in support that I think a lot of us are guilty of or have been guilty of in the past.

So I'm trying to eliminate from the support vernacular, and those are what I call these empty words. So I'm just going to put them up there and we can discuss. Like what they feel like as they come up feedback, hate that word. Worst word ever written ever by anyone content, probably worse inconvenience.

I can't even spell this word right. Most times, which means it's evil to me just to even see it is just terrible that isn't this isn't. We don't, we won't, we can't anyone who's familiar with my former career life have probably heard a lot of these words a lot from that great company. Does anyone know?

I don't like these words. No. Okay. So good. No, one's heard this talk before. Feedback is the sound that I'm microphone makes one, a good Target's too close to it. You don't want to ever tell your customers thank you for your feedback because that's just completely brushing them off and saying, get out of my face.

Content is a way of being very derogatory about somebody's words that they've written to you in earnest. So it's not content, inconvenience. We've all know this whole, like the old adage. If I spill hot coffee, I'm not going to tell you, sorry for the inconvenience. I'm gonna say I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry that happened. I'm so sorry. That's the kind of focus that you want to have with your customers so that they know that you really care about what they're saying to you, whether it's in email or in Twitter or wherever. So the opposite of this then would be full words here. Some of my favorite things to say to customers, I encourage you all to give it a try.

Thank you. I'm sorry. That's a hard one. This sucks. I know it's frustrating. That's a bug. You're right. Great idea. Thanks for the vote. And the last one, I don't know. I have a lot of customers who have a lot of hard time with this. I know 80 told me that after a year of me training his team, he's still having a hard time not saying, unfortunately, which is another one of the words I hate.

It's hard to get out of the habit of saying these words because we're so used to hearing them. So we get really used to saying them. And one of the worst ones is saying, I don't know, and saying, I'm sorry. I've customers who refuse to say, I'm sorry. And I think why not? What's the big deal. What's the big deal.

It doesn't matter. You're saying I'm sorry. Doesn't mean you're taking responsibility for anything. It just means that you're really sorry that someone's pissed off at you and you're going to try to do your best to fix it for them. They would disagree with that. No, I don't feel like you guys don't want to say that you disagree, but I would say try to get these into your vernacular.

And one really easy way to do that is if you're going to use shortcuts, keyword, shortcuts autocompletes, or something like text expander, start putting these into your scripts and don't take them out. Even if they don't sound like you. Even if they sound uncomfortable, trust me, this is what your customers want to hear.

They don't want to hear the professional crappy feedback, content speak. So that's it for that side of things. Are just summary on this support. Isn't as important as code and design, you should invest in it as much as you do anything else and development of your app. And when I say invest, money, time and hiring the right people to do it and not just finding someone to do it because you don't want to do it.

And they're not really even qualified to do it. That's not going to help you keep it friendly, keep it fast, educational and fun. Be like taco bell. I can't believe I'm even saying that I don't even eat taco bell. And I think their Twitter is just so incredible and amazing. Secondly go make money. That's what we're all here to do.

That's what I've been trying to do this year and it's been working great. And I think that you guys are, if you think about like the customers, the people who are going to actually be handing you money to do these things, you remember that we need to be great and kind and awesome to them as well as educational and offer them accessibility and all that stuff.

So that's the end of that part. Any other questions? Yes. Yes. Wait yes.

My support team is really friendly and I have to, a lot of times going and tell them to cut it out. You have to fire some customers that just overrun. So maybe you could speak to that for just a moment.

So do you, yeah. So his question, you heard his question. Do you have problems with people just asking, taking up too much time of your support people? Yeah. So when I worked for this really great company that I used to work for, and I was the only person doing support, I was answering maybe 200 emails a day on average, and every single day from March of 2009 until probably April of 2010, I got one or two emails from the same guy over and over and over.

And it was really weird because every time he wrote me an email, it would be like, please advise, I never, we never talked before. Like we're not friends, come on rich. I know you What I ended up doing was seeing like, what the fuck is this guy? Does he have no, does he do nothing else than write me support emails?

And it was account. And I found out that he was paying the most money. He could pay us for four apps every single month. And he'd been doing that consistently for a year. So to answer your question, I ended up comping all of his accounts because I think that's amazing loyalty. And when you look at it that way, it's far less annoying.

That's the one thing I would do, but if there's customers are not making you money and they're really just being a time suck, you just need to tell them you're being a time suck and you can do that kindly what I found that you're being a time suck. This is the thing. if you were to educational setting, I'm going to be honest with you and be like, dude, you know what?

I got to go. Write me an email with all your questions and I'll answer them when I can. But this one and back and forth and back and forth thing is not working for either of us. So some things that we advise people to do when they have these times, lucky customers is to tell them, save all your questions for one big email and send it to me at the end of the week, that works for a lot of people.

They end up getting emails that have 10 or 12 questions in them on a Friday, but it happens saying to the customer, it sounds like you have a lot of questions about this. do you want to have a quick phone call and we can go over some of these things and trust me as much as I hate phone support, a quick phone call with someone alleviates a lot of the stress and anxiety they have about using your app.

So when you see people coming back and forth, what does it do this, how does it do this? Does it do this? That's also an anxious person that just needs to be reassured that everything's be cool with you guys. So if none of those things apply, just stop replying to them. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Don't ever do that. Don't ever do that, please. Okay.

I get, I comp their account for free for life. No, their whole, all of their accounts, they were paying us. Yeah. So really different from the philosophy of the cool company that I worked for. but I think it was really wonderful for the customer and they ended up just loving it and that's what counts.

That's what matters. Yes. So I have a question about outsourcing support, single founder, every hour I spend in the sport is an hour. I'm not working on a bug and it's not fixing

Rob Walling: [00:29:00] features

Sarah Hatter: [00:29:00] or anything. how, what suggestions do you have on outsourcing support? Good sources, techniques, trip, tips, training.

So how do you know about how many support emails you get per day? I try to shove everybody over to my support forum instead. So I've been doing that. if they give me an email, I'm like, Hey, I'm a single guy here. I go to the support forum there's stuff over there to, cause most of the questions probably vastly.

Majority of the 90% or more are all questions that are either answered in my FAQ or are there things that they can search on in the

Rob Walling: [00:29:29] forum?

Sarah Hatter: [00:29:30] So I tell them that generally, and they can't find that. So we need to get a little bit better about being service clearly. okay. So let's say you get less than 25 emails a day on support.

It's that's an opportune time for you to raise up a great support person who can be with you for a number of years. But who's starting out in this support role with you at the beginning of things, we do outsource support, very minimally. We like to do it for people that have one to two people on their teams.

So it's mostly people like this in the room. and there are people like you who just, they need to spend time on dev. They can't be doing support for them. So there's resources out there. One of the other really great resources out there that I hesitate to tell you guys, because it'll put me out of business is find really loyal customers that like you and that are really excited about you and give them superstar status in your forums to answer your customer questions on your behalf.

It works, especially on stuff like on guest satisfaction. You can take someone who comments on a lot of stuff or who points people to there's an answer over here. You can actually make them a representative of your company. On a forum like that. And if you really trust him, pay him, 15 bucks an hour to answer the 25 emails in two hours or something like that.

yeah. Okay. Other questions, we're going to move into the lightning round real quick here. Do you have a lot of the last question? Okay.

so the product that I sell is very technical and very complex, very kind of computer science-y like, good point. Yeah. Everyone is reinventing the Guggenheim machine or whatever it's called the Google machine. So the problem, my question is, and it's pretty good and it works pretty well most of the time, but when I do get, get bug reports, they're really deep and really hard.

And it's yeah, I can. I can look at this and it's going to take me like the next six months to solve this problem. what's the best way. Or would you speak to, basically saying you're right? You have a point, you found a bug. I'm sorry. I'm not going to get it fixed tomorrow or maybe

Rob Walling: [00:31:27] ever

Sarah Hatter: [00:31:28] that's it.

That's it. You did it. Yeah. So great. I'm out of a job. Thanks a lot. So I do that with people all the time. And especially when you know, a, this is a deep seated bug. That is where we're putting a lot of resources and figuring out how to fix it. And it's not a tomorrow fix or when it's a feature request that we know is not coming for years and years be honest because the problem is, if you tell a person anything else he's going to write you in a week, did you get that bug fixed is an update coming and you don't ever want to string people along again.

Honesty, as Jason said, endears people to you. They want to be loyal to people who are honest to them. Yeah, be honest. And if it's something that a lot of people are reporting, you need to put it in a public place, like on a forum or in your Twitter or whatever we know about this bug known issue. We're working on it, hard heart issue.

That's it. Okay. We're gonna do that. Quick lightning round of my business advice. Can you hold it? And just to the end, anyone else has got their hand up. I do want to hear your questions, but I want to run through these slides really quick. so I started this business a year ago and I was at a very lucky place because I had amazing advisors.

My last, my former boss, I had knew a lot of people in the industry and I got really great advice from them and it wouldn't do me any good to not share it with you. Some of the stuff is my own and some of it is not, and I'm not giving attribution to anyone. So you can give me credit for all the really good stuff.

so this is the first thing never, ever lean deep into business advice given to you by someone who doesn't have a fulfilling and healthy, personal life. I know we joke about the kid pictures, but the kid pictures are important because it shows that these people up here have lives outside of coding all day long.

It shows that they have families to invest in and hobbies and other things that they're doing besides just sitting in their cave until three in the morning. if I'm ever going to ask someone advice about anything, I want to know that they have great relationships. They have hobbies, they're doing stuff outside of coding.

On top of that, you want to surround yourself with people who don't give a shit about what you're building, but love who you are and not the opposite. We love conferences like this because it gives us a sense of camaraderie with everyone. But these are not the people that we need to surround ourselves with.

These are not the people that we need to be talking with or texting with all day long. We need to find people who give our egos a little bit of a slam because it helps us remember there's humility in what I do. I'm not this great God building the next, whatever I called it. Guggenheim machine.

So anyway, the next one is really important. I will take credit for this. It's okay to give away your ideas. you shouldn't keep your ideas. You should just talk about your ideas because we don't live in an age anymore where people are here to steal your ideas. you're going to make money by executing the most elegant and harmless and interesting version of any idea, not by being the only person to try it.

So it doesn't matter if there's competitors. It doesn't matter if there's other people in the app store doing the same thing. It matters whether you're doing it better and you're doing it more efficiently. And you're a little bit kinder about it. The next one version of that I heard that's really good is, people can steal your idea, but they can steal your backup.

Absolutely same sentiment. Absolutely. the next one go to therapy. If you need to tell them, you start your company, they'll know what to do next. Trust me. Therapists are really great at this kind of stuff, because there gets you to talk about stuff you never get to talk about, but always think about you're paying the money so they can't walk away from you.

And they have experienced in people transitioning from careers to career, especially people who are over 30. That's one of the, one of the biggest reasons that people go to therapy is because they're transitioning from career to career. So they're trained in how to do this stuff. They're training how you walk you through it.

It's very important. next thing don't be a Dick. Swagger is not something you need to be successful whatsoever. In fact, it will repel people from you and you want to be bringing people towards you and bringing people in to help you more and to be around you and to like you. the next thing, this is a piece of advice I got from a friend of mine.

Gary Vaynerchuk, totally name dropped right there. If you want a mentor, find someone who's amazing and asked to buy them dinner and take them out and do this until they offer to do the same for you. When they start offering next time, it shows that there is engaged in your development as you are engaged in learning from them.

And that's a solid relationship that you can have with someone. I know that there's a lot of controversy about the whole like sending entrepreneurs and famous people emails. And let me buy you drinks. Let me buy you dinner. Trust me. it's worth putting yourself out there cause someone's gonna bite on it.

the next thing remember that unkind people are maniacally unkind to themselves first and foremost. This includes your competitors who are going to be saying crappy things about you. This includes bad app store reviews. Just includes customers who are mean, this includes anybody. Who's going to tear you down on tech crunch or hacker news or whatever.

Remember that they're there. It makes their unkindness towards others, more sad than annoying. I keep that in perspective and also keep it perspective that you don't ever want to react in kind to anyone who's saying negative or poorly worded things to you. next thing asks for advice from everyone, including your customers, ask for like people to write you feature requests.

If you know that there's stuff that you want to add to your app, ask people what they think about it. Ask for advice from every single person that you meet, because you're going to get a lot of it. And that's going to be how you grow as a business leader, as an entrepreneur, as a CEO or whatever on top of that, find a spiritual center that's bigger than you and spend time thinking about it.

And I don't mean religion at all. I don't mean yeah, I don't mean a religion, anything that's bigger than you that you can dwell on and spend time thinking about and know that there's something that grounds you out there. And again, this gets back to having a healthy, personal life and a healthy life outside of your work.

Next one. I'm totally calling out Dan on this because he talks about it yesterday and I think he was wrong. Be good to your body, donate your desk, get enough sleep. We are so grow party about powering through these work times. we brag about not eating and not getting sleep. And I think that's a detriment to your mind.

I think it's a detriment to the work that you do. I think when you're well rested, you make better decisions. And when you eat, your brain is fueled and those things should never be compromised just because you have the will to win. You can have both at the same time. Okay. So that's it. That's my advice.

That's all I have at taco bell. Don't forget that. and there was a couple other questions you guys want to ask them real quick. think about that. When you say

Rob Walling: [00:37:42] surround yourself with people, do you mean at home or work or both?

Sarah Hatter: [00:37:47] both, whatever works for you, whatever you think is most productive for you.

Mostly for me, it's at home. Like none of my friends have any idea what I do all day long. I have tried to explain it to him and they don't get it. I think most of them think I'm unemployed. I think I know my ups guy thinks I'm unemployed because I see him more than pretty much anyone else. But I think I don't know what they think I do when I'm gone all the time.

Maybe I'm just on vacations three days a week, but yeah. So whatever works for you, I'm not sure if you answered this already, but, do you ever fire customers? Yeah. And, what point do you decide? Like I'm going to find that customer whenever they're a Dick to me. Yeah. And the second that it's gone over that line of, I'm trying to be as helpful as I can and they're just not being responsive.

And sometimes, like I said, in that slide, people that are unkind for a reason, and sometimes I need to vent. And usually that ends up being like, On the lowest denominator there, and that's always a support person. So there's a difference between needing to vent and me being telling a person.

I know you're frustrated. I'm so sorry about this. And then coming back and coming back, it just being vicious. I don't need to deal with that anymore. That takes away from my time developing a great app for that person. And for the other people who are really excited to you

Rob Walling: [00:38:57] As a reminder, this talk is in our YouTube playlist called Building Your First SaaS, the ultimate crash course, if you haven't checked that out head over to youtube.com/MicroConf and be sure to subscribe to our channel while you're over there. We are pushing out. New videos almost every week at this point. And it's a valuable resource that as a founder and aspiring founder should be able to get some value out of. So I hope you're enjoying this podcast.

If you are. We'd love to hear from you on Twitter @MicroConf @RobWalling. Talk to you next week.

Hitting the Pause Button On Your SaaS with Allison Seboldt

Rob Walling — Thu, 22 Oct 2020 07:41:00 +0000

In a recent blog post (https://allisonseboldt.com/september-2020/), Allison Seboldt, Founder of Fantasy Congress, pondered whether right now was the time to put a pause on her plans for the expansion of the product.

During this conversation, Rob and Allison will chat about some of the elements that go into what that decision means, what steps to take to let things run on autopilot, and what comes next.

Allison is a self taught developer and bootstrapping enthusiast. After working as a web developer for four years, she quit corporate life to pursue her passion project. Fantasy Congress is an online game that puts a fantasy sports spin on politics. Players draft members of Congress for their team and earn points based on legislative actions like votes, sponsoring bills, and debating on the chamber floor.

Fantasy Congress is intended to be a fun way to connect with friends while also helping people stay engaged and informed in the political process.

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Transcript

Hitting the Pause Button On Your SaaS with Allison Seboldt

Rob Walling: [00:00:00] And we're live. Welcome to this week's MicroConf On Air. I'm your host, Rob walling, every Wednesday, 1:00 PM. Eastern 10:00 AM. Pacific. We live stream. For 30 minutes and we covered topics related to building and growing ambitious SaaS startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to value and maintain healthy relationships.

We believe that showing up every day, shipping that next feature, next piece of marketing copy or closing your next sale is a way to build a sustainable company. We don't ask for permission to start companies. We build and ship real products. So the real customers pay us real money. Welcome to MicroConf On Air.

You may be able to hear my dog in the background. This is live streaming in a pandemic. I have a couple of children at home, as well as a Sharpie who is steadfastly guarding the front door. Today. We are talking about hitting the pause button on your SaaS. It's a, an interesting topic. And a new one that I don't think I've covered before, where they're on this, this show or on other podcasts that I've done.

I am pretty excited to dive into this. My guest today is Allison Seboldt. Of Fantasy Congress. She's the founder of Fantasy Congress @ fantasycongress.com. Allison is a self taught developer and a bootstrapping enthusiast. After working as a web developer for four years, she quit corporate life to pursue her passion project, which is Fantasy Congress.

Fantasy Congress is an online game that puts a fantasy sports spin on politics. Players draft members of U.S. Congress. I love this for their team and earn points based on legislative activities, actions like votes, sponsoring bills and debating on the chamber floor. Fantasy Congress is intended to be a fun way to connect with friends while also helping people stay engaged and informed in the political process.

So again, we're going to be talking today a little bit about, building and loans and putting Fantasy Congress on pause for the moment.

We're going to dive in. So Allison, welcome to the show.

Allison Seboldt: [00:01:54] Hey Rob.

Thanks for having me.

Rob Walling: [00:01:56] Absolutely. we were just chatting before we hopped on that. I got we're. We're just, what a five hour drive away from each other here in the Midwest. And while I got six inches of snow yesterday, you didn't get any over in Chicago. Is that right?

Allison Seboldt: [00:02:10] No, but yeah, last year for Halloween, we got three inches.

So I'm very familiar with this experience of October snow.

Rob Walling: [00:02:19] Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Cool. let's dive into this cause I'm pretty, pretty intrigued by your story. it's an interesting, you launched into, a, B2C play, And you people can follow along on your blog, actually.

What is the URL of where you're blogging?

Allison Seboldt: [00:02:36] AllisonSeboldt.com. Okay.

Rob Walling: [00:02:38] And it's S-E-B-O-L-D-T. And I read it several of your updates and watched you watched your progression, but yeah, really, you've, as a developer, you're obviously, really leaned into this world of indie hacking.

Can you tell us a bit about your journey from teaching yourself to code? So we'll go from, Hey, you already know the code, but deciding, Hey, I am going to build Fantasy Congress and I'm going to go all in on this. You want to talk us through how you made that decision?

Allison Seboldt: [00:03:04] Yeah. I was teaching myself to code around like 2012, 2013, and in 2014, that's when I got my first job.

And 2014 is actually when I came up with the idea of Fantasy Congress. So I came up with it. Originally, when I first thought of it, I was like, Oh, that would be like such an interesting side project to put on my portfolio, but I got a job and then I got busy and didn't really think about it. I was still obsessed with the idea though.

I just, I couldn't get it out of my head. And I was working in the field for awhile. I tried starting it as a side project a couple of times, and it just didn't really work for me. coding all day or working 40 hours a week and then commuting and coming home. I just wanted to rest, I didn't want to continue coding and fantasy congress was a kind of labor, intense, sensitive side project.

So it didn't really work for me. I was still obsessed with the idea though. And in 2017 I was thinking about, Oh, what I want to do next in my career. And I decided to save up money and just. Quit my job and dive into it. So beginning of 2018, I just dove head first into it.

Total newbie had never started a business before, had never done anything like this before. And it was just like, Hey, I'll sink or swim. Let's see what happens.

Rob Walling: [00:04:23] And here we are two and a half years later. Yeah. That's a that's interesting. So you didn't want to do it on the side. Cause that's obviously the path a lot of people take because they do have the day job and they want infinite runway in essence, which is what a day job gets you.

Was it the desire to not do it on the side? Was it that you were tired in the evenings, you felt like your focus was split. what went into that decision to truly quit your job? Because some, while some people do that, it's obviously not the most common thing you hear developers do.

Allison Seboldt: [00:04:52] Yeah, they were two pieces to that. So when I was trying, so I did try to start it as a side project a couple of times, and I didn't have the time management skills I think I have now. So it just felt too big, I wasn't, I never felt like I was making progress on it. I would come home and just dread, Oh, I have to do more work.

So it was more just, I think I have a certain amount of coding hours in me per day, and like doing a side project while also having a full time job it was too much for me to handle today. Now I think I might have a little bit, I have better time management skills, honestly, like being an entrepreneur has taught me time management skills.

So I think I would probably. It would probably be easier for me now, but at the time then it didn't really work for me. and then the other thing too, I wasn't really happy in my current job. So I was Oh, what do I do next? Do I go get another job? I don't know what if I don't vibe with that team.

I just, the entire time, for the full four years I was working in the industry. I just, I was obsessing over this idea and I was like, Oh, I, I've tried to start this side project and it's not working. I feel like the only way it would ever actually happen is if I worked on it full time.

So I just, I decided I was at this crossroads and I was going to go for it.

Rob Walling: [00:06:13] Yeah. And that's, and it's a luxury to be able to do that. a lot of people, it's hard for them to save up enough money to be able to, to do that. congratulations for being able to pull that together.

I'm curious, I've never heard of, when I see the idea for this. It's a no brainer. It's of course that should exist. Does it exist beyond that? Did it exist before you built fancy Congress or did you truly innovate in this space?

Allison Seboldt: [00:06:39] no, I did exist previously. there's been a few different iterations of it.

The most popular one was in 2006. It ran from 2006 to the end of 2007, I believe. and it was started by some college kids in California. And they, it, it's funny, I've talked to the previous founders a little bit and they said, it got, it picked up steam. They moved to DC to work on it, but it wasn't profitable.

And I believe they sold it to Politico in 2008 and political kind of turned it into some other game. and then they pursued something else. And then there's been other people who have started similar side projects or done similar things on the internet, but none of it's ever. Really taken off. I feel like no one seems to have treated like a business.

From my perspective, when I was thinking about starting this as a side project, obviously I Googled, okay, this has to exist already. Surely somebody else has done this. And I did find these previous versions, but nobody was charging for it. Nobody seemed to be like making money off of it. They all seem to be just side projects.

Like I did this thing and I put it up online or in the case of the college kids in 2006, they were primarily trying to make money off of ad revenue, which didn't work out. So my thinking was, if I treated this more like a business, more Draft Kings fan duel. Maybe not like betting on it, those are definitely businesses.

So if I focused more on, can I get people to pay for this? Maybe it would be more sustainable and grow and become this thing that I think is a really big thing that I think it could be.

Rob Walling: [00:08:12] and is that the revenue model? Do you charge like a monthly or an annual subscription fee?

Allison Seboldt: [00:08:17] Yeah. So right now I have two audience.

so there's recreational players and then there's educators. Cause I learned in the process of making this, that civics educators find this very useful tool. so for the recreational players, they pay a monthly subscription fee and then the educators pay a flat yearly fee.

Rob Walling: [00:08:36] Got it. And what's the range of those fees?

Just to give folks on it,

Allison Seboldt: [00:08:40] the recreational players right now, it's $19 a month. And then that's so you sign up and that allows you to create leagues and then you can invite anybody to play in your league for free. And then, for the educators, it's $149 for a year, and you can create as many leagues and add as many students as you need to.

Rob Walling: [00:08:59] Got it. And is that similar to pricing of a fantasy football? App like a FanDuel or whatever. I don't really watch sports. So I don't know much about sports betting thing or fantasy or what,

Allison Seboldt: [00:09:12] it, it's like kind of both. So that's how most fantasy sports apps make their money is based off of, vetting.

So I, I haven't done those myself. Honestly, I think it's usually a, you sign up for free and then you add your account and put money into it. Or you pay you like pay to enter a league. And if you win, you get like a prize or whatever, and they take a percentage of that money or something like that.

Rob Walling: [00:09:37] I see

Allison Seboldt: [00:09:37] there, most of them are not paid to play, I'll say right.

Rob Walling: [00:09:41] That's what I was thinking. most, there really isn't B to C SaaS. It's arguable. If there are any B2C SaaS apps that are at, at scale. Oh, and cause they just tend to use the Fremont some model like that. It's either going to advertising or it's monetizing something. That's not the people because consumers are just did you consider it a model like that, more like the fantasy football model where people do, contribute and then take you take a cut.

Allison Seboldt: [00:10:06] so initially I'll say in, when I first quit my in 2018, I was thinking, originally that version two, that was my MVP.

That was based off of the midterm elections in 2018. And I was thinking, okay, so it'll be freemium because I didn't know any better. I thought anything, I thought every app had to be freemium, honestly. And I was thinking he had to be freemium and then I'll make money. I'll try to follow this fantasy sports style.

like people can win money off of it or whatever. And I consulted some lawyers and the lawyers were like, you definitely cannot do that. Do not do that unless you have a lot of money to spend on. Yeah. Licenses and legal fees and whatnot. And I was like, okay, I won't do that then. so I, then I thought like I do the normal freemium approach, which is where you can sign up for free.

And then if you want extra features, you'll pay for them. there'll be like a special, better account that you can sign up for an upgrade. I never got to that point, obviously, because freemium is. It's so hard just to ship something, especially like the very first time you're shipping, something like this.

And so I never got to that point to create extra features. but yeah, so I did explore the, the fantasy more traditional fantasy sports style aspect of it and walk away from it quickly.

Rob Walling: [00:11:25] Yeah. And that makes sense. And there are a lot of businesses that work at scale. Or that work with a lot of funding or that work with, again at scale with a million users that just aren't, they don't make sense when you have a hundred or 500 users and you either have to monetize them differently or the, or they just don't work.

there are even eBay doesn't work with 500 people using it. You need. Millions of people, you need the network effect. Facebook doesn't work with 500 people unless it's a really tight knit group. It's only at Harvard or whatever. and obviously, fantasy sports, a fantasy sports site with only a few hundred people on it is probably more, it's probably a, a much more challenging thing to run, but it sounds like that there was an inflection point as you were building this where you became aware of.

the worth of Fantasy Congress for educators. And you specifically said like civics instructors, how did you, how did you find that out first off? And I guess perhaps, secondly, is it co university or is it a more high school level folks?

Allison Seboldt: [00:12:24] I's more high school focused.

Although I have, I've had professors from West point reach out to me. I've had a few different, college professors reach out to me. So there's interest there as well. Yeah. So what happened in 2018 was I was trying to build this freemium app and I think got to the beginning of the fall. And I was obviously nowhere I wasn't in any position to start charging for upgraded features.

so I was kinda like, Oh, I don't know. I'm just going to try to ride this out and then figure it out after that. And I had always thought educators might be interested in Fantasy Congress. I just didn't know how to begin reaching them. I thought that they would need like all kinds of crazy extra features.

So what happened was they actually found me. Which is crazy because I maybe did 50 yellers worth of Reddit ads. And that was all the marketing that I did for Fantasy Congress in 2018. But somehow they found me and labor day weekend, it got shared on a. Facebook group of 4,500 AP government teachers.

And they just went crazy for it. they all signed up at once that too use day after labor day, they were all trying to get their students onto the app. And I had this like really janky draft, like live draft app that I had written with WebSockets I'd never used WebSockets before. So like, all of these classes were trying to draft at once and they were crashing my app.

so I just shut everything down, sent everybody an email. And I was like, Whoa, I don't know where you all came from, but you all found me and we just need to take a breather here. so I found out they all came from this Facebook group and I just that Tuesday after I shut everything down so that everybody in email is we're having issues.

We'll figure it out. I was just okay, this seems like an opportunity. I need to ask for money here because these people seem really motivated. Maybe like educators could be part of, I could pivot to focusing on educators. If they'll pay me, I will pivot to them. So I started asking for money and they paid and I was like, okay, this seems viable.

I think I just, I think I just validated.

Rob Walling: [00:14:36] Yeah. That's a cool story. And it's one of those that, I often talk about the success involves hard work, luck and skill in varying combinations, depending on your story, and it's obviously we're putting in hard work to build this and you had built up the skills of being a developer, and then you started building up the ability to ship product and everything.

And you got a little lucky with someone posting to a Facebook group, someone discovers you based on $50 of ads or maybe it was something entirely. Maybe they just Googled you and found you. So then that leads to now you have these two different, customer segments. You have the consumers that you mentioned earlier in 19 bucks a month, then you have the educators 149 a year.

at brings us to last month where you posted a blog post and you said you hit a thousand dollars in revenue, just over a thousand dollars and 550 of that was recurring revenue. but at the end of the post, you said Fantasy Congress is still my passion, but it's time for a break. I'm curious what you mean by a break?

Like what does a break mean to you and why did you come to that decision?

Allison Seboldt: [00:15:40] Yeah. So to me, a break means I've been grinding on this full time and just, it's been my one and only, so to me a break means I'm just going to like probably, I don't have any features planned to ship out in the next two weeks.

Usually it's Oh, I know exactly what I need to do today. I know exactly what I need to do tomorrow. It's work, and I'm just right now, I'm just taking a step back to assess and reflect on. What, where, where should I send my energy next? I came to that decision because, so I was doing like contracting work to support myself.

And that ended in June. And I thought, Hey, I don't have anything lined up. I have some savings built up. I this environment that we're in right now with all the educators moving online and the political environment and the election coming up, it really seems like Fantasy Congress could really take off this year.

So I'm just, what if I, take some time to just focus hard and completely on fantasy Congress go full time on that. I set a goal to reach ramen profitability by the end of October. And last month, even though I made, almost 1200 in revenue, just in last month, when I was looking about how I made that revenue, I didn't feel like I could replicate it and let alone like double or triple it, in October.

So it was Hey, I'm not going to reach my goal. So it let's just take a step back and reassess what happened and then, pick it up in a couple of weeks or a month and then go in a new direction.

Rob Walling: [00:17:12] Got it. Yeah. Working for something, working on something for two and a half years and not having the traction you want is hard.

And I feel like a break. I feel like that could reenergize you given how much passion you've had for this thing over two and a half years, do you feel like that's what it's going to give you? If you take a step back for a month or two that you'll come back, re-energized or do you think it will offer new ideas that you come up with while you're having that downtime?

What do you hope to get out of that break?

Allison Seboldt: [00:17:44] this is just like something that I've always done. Anytime. I started to feel burnt out or stressed out about something and not to say I was like, totally burnt out on fantasy Congress. when you go really hard and you have a goal in mind and you don't reach it, like that's a bit defeating.

So any time I've set a big goal for myself and been a little disappointed that I don't meet it. I always just take a break. This is just something, when I was teaching myself to code and trying to get a job, I like did this too. And I always felt like my biggest breakthroughs came when I was taking those breaks.

It was not actually giving up or whatever, but just like throwing up my hands and just like not thinking about it and pouting, and just walking away. And then, I'd be washing the dishes or something then like a big breakthrough would come to me. So it's more just about.

Letting my brain decompress and. Just giving myself time to reflect too. I think sometimes I get to do into my coding bubble and I'm just so focused on shipping features or whatever. And in the past like week or two, I've been doing just this reflection and not. Actively, it's always on my mind, your business is always like in the back of your mind, you're always thinking about it, but not actively like sitting down with a pencil and paper and like trying to figure out problems.

And I've just been reflecting. It's Oh, I should probably reach out and talk to my current customers and get some feedback from them. So sometimes when you're too deep in the weeds, it's hard to see the obvious stuff. So it's kinda just like pulling back and taking a break and.

Looking at the big picture, I guess that's how I look at it.

Rob Walling: [00:19:18] Yeah. I think that's good advice. And I see, I think that's something I do well in the short term. Like during a day I find myself fatigued. I walk away, I do the dishes. I make lunch. I walk the dog. I'm really bad at it, in a way that you're doing it, where I, if I'm grinding on something and I'm not making progress for weeks or months for that matter.

I need to get better. And I think if you're watching this or listening to it, like it's something to be aware of in yourself is taking a week off two weeks off, three weeks off, maybe it's completely from work. Or maybe it's just from that task. Or maybe it's that project. If you have the luxury to do it.

And if you're an entrepreneur, you may or may not depending on the situation you're in, but I think that's good advice. We do have a question from the audience, Paul, actually we have a couple of questions. So Pablo asks, did you ever evaluate selling it as a. as part of a path forward,

Allison Seboldt: [00:20:08] that's something that I would be open to eventually in the future, but I wouldn't want to sell it right now.

I haven't, I don't know if anyone would want to buy it as is right now. I feel like I haven't figured out any of the obvious problems that. Someone who's looking to buy a business would be looking for. I haven't been approached by anybody, but again too, this is my passion, this is my baby.

So I wouldn't want to sell it unless I feel like it's in a really good place.

Rob Walling: [00:20:37] Very good. And then Pablo asked another question. He said, when you were finding, contracting assignments, how did those potential customers or potential clients react to you having a startup on this side? Or did you not, or did you not tell them that you were running fantasy Congress when you signed up to do contract work for them?

Allison Seboldt: [00:20:59] It was a huge benefit to me. People loved hearing about it. Honestly, I feel like half the jobs I got was just because I'm the fantasy Congress girl. Like it was you hear about that and like people remember you, first of all, because that's very unique and silly and, people, and then you have this work out there that you can show people like, Hey, And a lot of people we're hiring to are business owners, so business owners are more likely to trust other business owners.

I feel, yeah, when you're doing, I don't know if it's so much, in the corporate world. So if I was trying to go back and get like a full time job, I think people might be a little wary because it's like, Oh, is she going to quit the job? in six months, if this takes off, but with contract work, people were like, Oh, I know how long I have you and you know how to ship.

It seems to be a huge benefit. people really, it really resonated with people.

Rob Walling: [00:21:48] I remember in my early days of, as I switched away from a, it was, I guess I had been a contractor, then it took a salary job and I was switching back to contracting. This is 17 years ago. I launched a couple of things on that, a couple of small side projects and the fact that they were out in the world and that they were.

being used and that they did have some small amount of revenue and that they were in production, just all these things really did impress people a lot more than I felt like it should. It was like this wasn't actually, at least my stuff was stuff I built in. I've spent three weeks in coated at nights and weekends and stuff, fantasy Congress, two and a half years.

that's another story. I, man, when I look at fantasy Congress, I see. Such opportunity with like just the social media, like the Facebook group posts you talked about is exactly how I think this, the virality of this, the viral potential with these rabid fans, is how I feel like, like the way this has to be grown.

when you watch, like Fandel only advertises on TV because now they have buckets of money. Most of it, venture capital, I'm guessing they're not. Profitable. Yeah. But even if they are it's because they've hit scale in those early days, all these fantasy league folks, they go after, content marketing.

They do, they could do PR it's something that's so many, a B to B SaaS founders can't do because we run boring businesses. Who, what PR outlet, what news org or magazine or anything wants to write about a new email service provider, none of them, however you were just recently covered, or by you.

fantasy Congress would just recently covered it in roll call.com, which is a new site for, U S government, stuff. Did that, did you seek that out or did they just discover it and decide to write about you.

Allison Seboldt: [00:23:34] This is funny. so in July, my big thing was my big focus was pressed because I agree like people always tell me, Oh, this has such a chance to go viral.

What I've learned though, from a little bit of research is that virality is actually depreciative. So we think. The vitality is this thing where, I post something, then all my friends see it, and then they post it and it grows and grows. But actually in reality, when they've studied virality, it's more somebody with a gigantic audience shares it.

And then like from that gigantic audience, it like putters out, So like people retweet it and people retweet, it becomes less and less. I do think it has a good chance to go viral. in July I focused on press. I was like soliciting a bunch of reporters. I didn't get anything.

I got a little bit of feedback. Oh, this could be super interesting. And then nothing ever came of it. this reporter for roll call was actually one of the people that I solicited. And so none of that took off in July. Oh, I'll go back and visit that some other time. it's something I'll go for some other time.

I'm focused on some other stuff. and then, so right after I put up my September blog post, which was like last week or whatever, this reporter reached out to me on Twitter, which is where I initially DMD him. And he was like, Hey, I was just about to reach out to you. But I saw that previously, you had reached out to me crazy.

Let's do it. So he, I don't know how he heard about it eventually, but. Yeah, it was so funny. It was me reaching. I did reach out to him. It didn't do anything, but then at some point he came across it. So at least I was targeting the right people. Yeah,

Rob Walling: [00:25:07] that's right. And that's the thing. I like your point about virality.

When I was saying by reality, I don't mean Oh, for every person that signs up to more, are gonna sign up for it. That's truly a viral loop. And so I was misusing the word, but when I think about it, I think politics. Is a space that a lot of people don't care about, but the few people that do or the S I say few, the tens of millions, but it's, whatever it is, 10% of the population, or some number that people that are really into it, they're really into it.

It's like sports. It's like Dungeons and dragons. It's like punk music, it's they're rabid fans. And I like my inclination. When I look at this, I know you're on a break now. I don't want to put a bunch of thoughts in your head that this works or doesn't work based on really inexpensive marketing, right?

Because your lifetime value and your monthly costs or monthly fees and all that are just too low to do a lot of extensive advertising. I think of influencers, I don't know if you've heard of Justin Robert Young, but he runs politics, politics.com. And he's just pennant. He's like a blogger podcaster.

And he talks about politics and he also talks about technology and all this other stuff, but I don't know how many folks like him are out there, but he's doing like nonstop daily, political podcasts and blog posts right now about the upcoming election. So influencers like him or what you're talking about with that amplification.

And it's how do you get. How do you get on their radar? How do you get fantasy Congress on their radar as well as. the PR angle, I think you were on the right track with that. I know it didn't work out in July, but who has the audience that cares about this kind of stuff, And it's the press it's folks like Justin Robert Young, even a little, obviously the Facebook groups that are already built, cause you building it one at a time with ads or, you trying to pick off one at a time with customers.

I think. Is a pretty long road with an app like this, given the little price point, but finding the people who do already have aggregated those people in one place, less than then, but you don't, you know this already because you're reaching out to journalists. I know that's a hard way they go and it's it.

It's a lot of reaching out and a lot of rejection and stuff, but, I do wish you the best of luck with it as you, take your break recharge and, figure out where to take it next. We are actually at time. So I really appreciate you taking the time to hang out with me for 30 minutes today. Folks want to reach out to you on Twitter.

They can see your handle on the screen. There you're @ allison_seboldt , and of course at @fantasycong on Twitter and it's fantasycongress.com. Thanks again for joining me today.

Allison Seboldt: [00:27:36] Yep. Thank you, Rob.

Rob Walling: [00:27:39] All right. And thank you for joining us for yet. Another episode of MicroConf on air sometime produced the standard and I'll go out and figure out how many episodes is this?

What do we think? 40 50 doing them first, daily, and then biweekly. And now weekly, we have some exciting coming up around SaaS podcast. We will be a. Lisa more information about that in the next couple of weeks, but stay tuned to the MicroConf Twitter account and our email list. Thanks as always to Haight and Stripe for being our headline partners for the year.

And we're out. I'll see you here again next week. Same time, same place.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 15: The Dinner Party Strategy_A SaaS Customer Onboarding Framework That Connects & Converts - Val Geisler

Rob Walling — Tue, 20 Oct 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Everyone wants the formula, the recipe, the framework that says how to make the magic happen. Well here you have it. With The Dinner Party Strategy you can now confidently create an email onboarding strategy for your trial customers.

In less time than it takes a hipster bartender to make your locally sourced craft cocktail, you'll get the simple 6-part framework that builds connection, adds value, and drives revenue for your brand.

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Diversifying Tech As A Service with Veni Kunche

Rob Walling — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:00:00 +0000

At MicroConf, we have been fortunate to have the support of some incredible sponsors to help us invite guests to our events on a scholarship program. This week, we're going check in on one of those scholarship recipients, Veni Kunche, founder of DiversifyTech.co We ask Veni about her experience at MicroConf, how she decided to build and launch DiversifyTech, and how she has continue to grow and monetize this social good service.

The State of Independent SaaS Survey is now open! Help us develop critical analysis of the current world of Independent SaaS by heading over to http://stateofindiesaas.com.

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 14: How to Build a Solo SaaS Sales Machine - Steli Efti

Rob Walling — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Steli Efti (Close) talks at MicroConf 2015 on how to build your own SaaS sales machine if you don't have piles of money from venture capitalists lying around.

In this video, you're going to learn the core principles of selling, how to write emails that get opened, why 90% of success is in the follow-up, and more.

Check out Steli’s MicroConf speakers page for more talks ➡️ https://microconf.com/speakers/steli-...

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Fighting the Isolation of Bootstrapped SaaS with Irma Mesa

Rob Walling — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Bootstrapping SaaS can be a bit... lonely. Lots of folks are working from home, might only have a couple of colleagues that they can bounce ideas off of.

We're excited to chat with Irma Mesa, the founder of Cafecito (https://meetcafecito.com), as she is actively building a SaaS company that combats that sense of isolation.

The 2021 State of Independent SaaS Survey is now open for responses. Help us pull back the curtain on the how the bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped founders have faired this year.

Complete the survey at http://stateofindiesaas.com

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 13: How to aggressively acquire customers for your SaaS with an efficient outbound sales process. - Jordan Gal

Rob Walling — Tue, 06 Oct 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Think you can't aggressively acquire customers using outbound sales for SaaS? Think it's too expensive, too inefficient, too distracting? Think again. You can do it. Jordan Gal show you how he and his team does it for CartHook.

From list building, to qualification research, to cold email automation, to scheduling demos. Everything from faceless prospect to free trial to paying customer. It's all outsourced, affordable, and scalable. And Jordan will show you how to put the whole thing together.

https://microconf.com #microconf #microconf2015 MicroConf 2015

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Making Your First Hire, Building & Growing Your Remote SaaS Team

Rob Walling — Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:05:00 +0000

https://microconfonair.com

Hiring your first team member is a huge milestone in creating a team that can advance the mission and values that are core to your SaaS Business. In this episode, with Natalie Luneva, the SaaS Boss, we're going to talk about when you should make those hires, how to decide which position you should hire first, and the characteristics of a high performing remote team.

Natalie is a growth and team performance coach to SaaS founders. Drawing from 10+ years of marketing and team leadership experience, and being married to a bootstrapped SaaS founder, she helps SaaS companies identify and implement high ROI opportunities, clarify business priorities and scale.

MicroConf Remote Replay is now available at MicroConfRemote.com

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 12: An Inside Story of Self-Funded SaaS Growth - Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 05:38:00 +0000

Rob Walling tells the story of launching Drip to $7k in MRR and then struggling to find product/market fit. He walks through the steps he took to get there, and his thought process along the way, including a revenue chart of the substantial growth Drip experienced after product/market fit.

Check out Rob’s MicroConf speakers page for more talks → https://microconf.com/speakers/rob-wa...

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Finding Product Market Fit in a Competitive Market with Derrick Reimer (Remix!)

Rob Walling — Fri, 25 Sep 2020 21:19:00 +0000

We had some issues with the original recording of this episode, so we've gone ahead and added a new version - hopefully this one works for everyone! Sorry for the inconvenience!

As you are seeking out product market fit, it is important to consider the path you forge into that market. Will you be competing for every customer against a crowded or competitive market because you think you can do it... better? Or will you forge your way into a deeper niche that may leave you to early to be noticed?

We invited Derrick Reimer, who just finished building SavvyCal, an easier way to create schedule appointments, and co-founded Drip with Rob.

When you're staring down the landscape and you see giant competitors like MailChimp or Calendly, what does that decision making process look like, and how do you carve out your own share of that market from those giants.

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Episode 35: Founder Spotlight with Brendan McAdams, Expertscape

Rob Walling — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:30:00 +0000

Every couple of weeks, we like to feature a founder from the MicroConf Connect community that is brave enough to jump on a call with Rob to talk about what it is they're doing. This week, we're excited to welcome Brendan McAdams, founder of Expertscape. Brendan McAdams is the co-founder of Expertscape.com, a healthcare search resource that identifies and objectively ranks medical expertise by specific topic. With over 30 years of sales and marketing experience across telecom, financial services and healthcare, he is the author of Sales Craft: Proven Tips, Practices and Ideas to Improve Your Sales Success. His second book, specifically focused on sales fundamentals for tech founders, is due out later this year. Brendan is based in Baltimore, MD.

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MicroConf Refresh Episode 11: Prescriptions and Descriptions: Blindspots of the Developer Entrepreneur - Ben Orenstein

Rob Walling — Tue, 15 Sep 2020 05:32:00 +0000

Ben has a theory: Developers who create digital products or SaaS apps tend to screw up in predictable ways. They are particularly likely to under-invest in marketing and sales, and will tend to over-automate. Worst of all, they almost always charge too little. After years of making these mistakes himself, Ben will share some hard-won tips for avoiding them. (Sorry in advance, but the answer is rarely "write more code.")

Access the first video in the Building Your First SaaS Business series, Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business by Jason Cohen, which was featured on the MicroConf Refresh Episode 2: https://microconfpodcast.com/episodes/microconf-refresh-episode-2-designing-the-ideal-bootstrapped-business-jason-cohen-founder-wp-engine

Check out Ben’s MicroConf page for more talks → https://microconf.com/speakers/ben-or... https://microconf.com

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Episode 34: The Contraindications of Key Performance Indicators with Keith Perhac

Rob Walling — Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:15:00 +0000

Keith is the founder of SegMetrics, helping founders understand their true lead value using a data backed approach.

On Air, Keith and Rob discuss why your KPI's might be setting up blinders as your create a marketing strategy for your businesses, how outliers can create a new train of thought in your marketing plan, and how to identifying strategies that can truly move the needle in testing conversions.

Keith Perhac has delivered a few talks at MicroConf, from his first Attendee Talk back in 2015 to his keynote presentation at MicroConf Starter in 2017. You can check out his talks here: https://microconf.com/speakers/keith-perhac

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MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

TRANSCRIPT

Rob Walling: [00:00:00] And we are live. Welcome to MicroConf On Air. Every Wednesday we livestream for about 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing ambitious SaaS startups. These are startups that don't need to work 80 hour work weeks, raise millions in venture capital, or drive us to the brink of burnout.

In this show, we seek freedom, purpose, and relationships, and we want to maintain those values while building interesting companies that can have an impact on the world, or maybe just our little corner of it. So thank you so much for joining me again this week, whether you're joining us live and maybe you're in MicroConf Connect, and you're going to be asking some questions of our guest today, or even if you're listening asynchronously on the podcast feed that's microconfpodcast.com or search for MicroConf On Air in any podcatcher that you use.

Today I have the pleasure of, uh, bringing a Keith Perhac on the show. You may know Keith, as the founder of SegMetrics. Yeah. And he is , hailing from the Portland area. So it's a little smoky outside his house right now. But Segmetrics.io If you want to check it out. They're a team of about 10 people in the growth stage. I was talking to him beforehand about how can we give people a sense of, of where the company is? , and he said, "Look, we have product market fit and we're in the growth stages. We're starting to grow quickly. "

If you go to SegMetrics.io, you can see their H1. In essence, SegMetrics is a tool that helps you get 100% clarity on where your leads come from, how they behave and how much your marketing is really worth. It allows you to get a handle on the KPIs that matter most for your marketing funnels is built by marketers for marketers.

And today, Keith and I are going to be talking about how KPIs can be misleading when optimizing your marketing. So Keith Perhac. Welcome to MicroConf On Air.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:01:43] Hey, Hey Rob. Thanks for having me.

Rob Walling: [00:01:46] Absolutely, man, um, that sky's look kind of clear from what I can see reflecting in your window as the air quality improved up there.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:01:54] It's not bad right now. It was really bad last night. It was kind of bad this morning. Uh, we'll see. It's really weird, you know, as the sun starts to set at and at like three o'clock it looks like an apocalypse out there at two o'clock. It looks like it's nighttime almost. So knock on wood that it's getting better.

Rob Walling: [00:02:11] Yeah for future. If you're listening to this in a year, this, these are the great, uh, fires, the Pacific Northwest and California happening and fall of 2020. So if you are in MicroConf Connect to go to the #microconf-on-air channel. And you can ask questions of Keith or myself, and we of course will tackle those live.

But Keith, we're going to talk about how KPIs can be misleading when you're optimizing your marketing, I'm going to define KPIs as , key performance indicators for folks who aren't fluent in an MBA speak. So I don't, I don't like KPIs. [indescipherable].

Key Performance Indicator.

I mean, they're, they're critical and they're needed in larger orbs. It's just the stuff. As a startup founder, I'm always like get out of my way. I want to know process, you know, um, key performance indicators are the critical indicators of progress towards an intended result. KPIs provide focus for strategic and operational improvement.

They create an analyst basis for decision making and help focus attention on what matters most. And that is a definition I took from something on. Google. So its probably the little, the little inset with the questions, but to me, I've realized that it's like once Drip got acquired, went from a 10 person team up to a hundred person team, basically. it's like each team needs something to focus on and if it's numeric all the better. For customer success team, maybe it's it's NPS, or maybe it's churn, or maybe it's trial to paid conversion rate. And that's the, those are the key performance they might be looking at it.

Sales, obviously it's going to be closed deals. Dollar amount of deals closed, MRR growth from sales. For engineering, those ones are always hard, right? The CEO, when I left, was like, how can we measure engineering? And I'm like, well, it's not bug count and it's not number of features shipped. It's not lines of code shipped.

So I'm very skeptical of, of KPIs with development teams. But that gives you an idea. If you're listening out there and , you've heard KPI's, or you really didn't know what they are, they're just numbers that help you kind of guide your business right. And to drive it forward.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:04:04] Yeah, I think that's, that's fully accurate. The one thing I would add on there is that the idea of KPIs is kind of like a scorecard . You don't want to have so many that you're just looking at a line of numbers.

But at "some point you want to know, "Are we doing better or are we doing worse than we were last week or last month? Or last year?" And as SaaS founders, most of us are looking at MRR. That's our top key KPI. It's like, what's our MRR? Is it going up or is it going down?

Rob Walling: [00:04:30] Yep. That was my top line KPI too , when I was all my, when I was running all my SaaS companies and everything else, but then everything builds to that because then I would look at how many trials did we get this month? What is our trial to paid conversion rate? What is our churn? What is our net churn? What you know, and all those things contributed, but you're right. That number that it builds to is MRR it's growth rate.

Cool. So, um, first question of the day.

All right. What are the main KPIs that people should be looking at in their marketing?

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:04:56] So this is always an interesting one for me, because it really depends on what you are trying to do with your marketing and what you're trying to improve. And so this number, this, what KPIs should you look at? It's something I get asked a ton, but it doesn't have a specific answer.

But what I like to do is look at what you trying to accomplish. And usually that means, look at a funnel, look at a marketing funnel that you have. Let's take it from a SaaS perspective where we have an ad. We have maybe an opt in for some sort of white paper or a guide or an email marketing course. We have a nurture sequence.

And then we start with the product or the trial after that. Um, some people skip right to the trial, but the idea is the same. You have a flow that people are going to go down . The main KPIs that you want to look for in a marketing funnel. Like this is how many people are coming in. So how many visitors are we getting?

How many opt-ins are we getting? So what's that conversion rate? What's the conversion rate to paid? And then at the end, how much money are we making? And everything else comes back and can be calculated from these just four things. And I think the key number that you're looking for is from the number of people who come in.

How much are they worth at the end of the funnel? And that's the number that you want to improve. So if I get a thousand people coming to my homepage and I made a thousand dollars, each person's worth a dollar. So then that, and that's my core KPI. I want to improve that number. And then as I look at different parts of that marketing funnel, that's when I'm going to be build out those secondary level KPIs.

Right. So, you know, you were talking about, okay, each department has different KPIs that they're watching and monitoring. Well, if we're looking at improving the marketing funnel in that nurture sequence, then there's going to be different KPIs that we're looking at. We're going to be looking at email, open rates and click through rates and retention rates and unsubscribes and stuff like that.

But that's not the core KPIs that we're looking at the top level. So when someone says, what KPIs am I looking for? It really matters. What's the goal? What are you trying to improve in your marketing funnel? And I said, I'd like to start at those, those top four or five. And then as we find a place that we're looking to optimize breakdown and break down into KPIs for that initiative.

Rob Walling: [00:07:24] That makes a lot of sense. I would follow along with that, those KPIs of that funnel as well. What do you see as the number one issue then when people start looking at marketing KPIs? Because I mean, I think our title is kind of saying, Hey, KPIs can be misleading or there can be counter indications or people maybe misuse them.

So what do we mean? What do you mean by that? You know, when you're, when you're saying that they can be misused or misunderstood.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:07:48] I think that people think that KPIs are because it's in all the MBA books everyone's talking about, Oh, what are your KPIs? It's the number one thing that everyone thinks they need to focus on.

And I don't believe that. I believe that KPIs are kind of like what you were saying is a great indicator of how you're doing. Are you improving or are you not improving? Right. Are you going up? Are you going down? And that's all they are. They are a great measurement of where you are at any point in your marketing or in your founder and your SaaS journey.

However, they don't really tell you anything other than I'm doing better or worse than I was last week. Right. And that's the key problem that I think a lot of people have when they're starting to look at KPIs. So two key problems, one, they look at too many. They're like, they forget the key. They're just like performance indicators.

So like, okay, we need to know how many leads and how many people opened emails and how many clicks and how many people click this one little link and how many people are named Sally on Tuesdays. And like, these are all the numbers that we think we need to know. No. And as soon as you start measuring all of them, you have lost any key performance indicator.

And so the rule of thumb that I always go to is. You want five at the most, you want five key performance indicators for any department or any initiative. Right? So for example, if you're the CEO you want probably how much is revenue going up or down?

Rob Walling: [00:09:22] CEO would be, but it might be net profit or it might be money in the bank.

Right. There's yeah.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:09:27] And then you have your marketing department and your marketing department has other goals. And then your ad department has a different set of goals, probably around ad spend and cost per acquisition. But the CEO doesn't need to know, okay, what's our ad spend versus cost per acquisition right now. It's not his key focus. He has someone in charge to look at that.

And I think that that's the main problem that people come to, which is they just want. They think this is important. So it's a key performance indicator.

Rob Walling: [00:09:57] Okay. So too many. So that's the number one issue you see is just too many. Now you mentioned something to me about outliers and that how important outliers can be. Is it outlier, KPIs, or just outlier numbers are when trying to measure your marketing

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:10:10] Outliers in general. And this goes back to, I think what I've kind of feel is the second problem with KPIs is that people think that they can then improve their business by looking at those KPIs. Alright, so let's take the MRR, um, example and we're like, okay.

We had a huge dip in MRR. Okay. Well we know why, because a bunch of people canceled, but what did that tell us. That didn't tell us anything. We just know that we're doing worse. So people have this idea of, okay, I'm measuring the KPIs. Now I know what to do to improve the business. And that's not it at all.

It's like a speedometer. It just tells you kind of where you are. It doesn't tell you any problems that are going on. . So with outliers, what I always say is from that KPI, you want to find the breakdown of people who are doing really well at that KPI and people who are doing really poorly at that KPI.

So it's a standard one I think of is conversion rate because I'm a conversion rate optimization guy. I've been doing this for years. Let's say you have a marketing funnel, you have a conversion rate of 50% on that funnel. So 50% of people who come into that funnel convert. Awesome. You are doing great, but let's look at drilling it down one.

So you have two traffic sources. You have Google ads and you have Facebook ads. And let's say Google ads are converting at a hundred percent. And Facebook ads are converting at 0%. Well, suddenly that 50% great number now has a whole different spin on it. Right. We're seeing now that we're wasting all of this money on Facebook ads, because zero of them are converting.

This is not a hypothetical. This is something that we actually came to in SegMetrics, where we found that Facebook ads had a cost per acquisition of $800. And our Google ads had a cost per acquisition of $60. And it's like, okay, well we know where we're going to go with it.

And Facebook doesn't tell you, Oh, you this, because they only see their own data.

Right. They're not letting right. You're not able to see this data.

Rob Walling: [00:12:11] Right. That's fascinating. So I have a couple of questions. I think one, one comment I want to make is like, when I look at Amazon reviews, for example, like I can look at a review for a new spatula , a garlic press or something.

And I can see that it's like, A three and a half star, which isn't very good. Right. But I always dig into the reviews and look at what are the one star reviews. And there's often a bunch of one stars that are like, this was delivered late. And this thing, when I tried to bang a nail with it, it didn't drive it in.

And that broke, you know, and then you'll see there's a bunch of five star views in the, and the. Knowing that it's three and a half is actually not super helpful. It's helpful at, at a high level, but knowing the details of why there are ones and what people like and dislike about it, I think are important.

And that's kind of what you're saying here is mixing these numbers. I see this with, um, I've seen this with churn where everybody groups, Hey, my churn number, my monthly churn right now is 5%. And it's like, Oh, what's your churn for, you know, the first month? Uh, or the first 60 days or what's for the first 60 days of this particular cohort, you know, you can drill down those numbers are harder to get too.

I think today with dashboards, like ProfitWell, Baremetrics, ChartMogul, they're easier, but , it's hard to fully understand it and yeah, until you really get in and are able to drill down to that level, you're here often kind of looking at this aggregated data, which while that's sometimes the best we can do as marketers, it's kinda, it's kind of dangerous.

And that's what you're saying. Right.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:13:35] Exactly exactly. And let's, let's take that Churn number. So I think a lot of people have realized recently that churn initial just the top level churn is not, not a valid metric because your churn in the first month is going to be so much higher than standard churn. And especially when you have a trial or something like that, that turn really doesn't. Count, I guess, but let's look at it one different way, which is okay. So now we know we're going to ignore churn for the first 30 days. We're only looking at what we'll call real churn. Well, now we want to know what's the churn of ads versus organic versus referrals, right? So now we've added a second level onto there, cause we still have that churn KPI, but we want to figure out, well, we have a 10% churn.

Who's churning? Why are they churning? So. Where do we start asking questions? And this is what I think is really missing. And what's important for marketing analytics tools, which is being able to ask these questions and in real time where I'm saying, okay, I see I have a turn of 10%, is it okay? Where are these people coming from outlier there?

So I look at my, my, uh, levels of churn for, out for a lead source and look at Google, uh, Facebook, organic, et cetera. And I say, okay, now they all look the same. Well, let's ask a different question. How about how far they get on the onboard and suddenly we see people who don't complete step two in the army boarding churn 20 times, as often as someone who completes up to step three.

So being able to ask these questions in real time and just see a chart, right. Just see a list of numbers of, okay, now everything looks normal or, Oh, look, this outlier is there and this is either really good. So we want to spend more to do that, or this is really bad. So we want to fix that. And that's, to me, the power of those outliers, which is, when everything's good and everything's copacetic. Awesome. You're doing great, but that's not what you're going to do to improve. If everything's good, you don't have anything to do. But somewhere in that good is something that's not performing well or that's performing great. And you want to do more of that.

Rob Walling: [00:15:44] Got it. That makes sense. And is that like, is there a major mistake that people make when they start to look at outliers?

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:15:51] I think they look at places. Where they don't have enough data yet, or they don't have focus. So one of the big ones that I see, especially with overall conversion rate optimization is so let's say we have that, that sales funnel let's do a product this time.

And people say, I'm just not getting any sales. We need to optimize the sales page, this checkout page, where they put in the credit card information we really need, because that's closest to the money. It makes sense, really want to optimize that. It's like, okay. Yeah. There's a lot of things. We can change on this.

A lot of things we can do to optimize this, how many people are coming to this page? Like five a week, like. Dude, you're never going to be able to opt out and ask because it's going to take, there's not enough data. So this is really the big issue that I see is people start way too far down the funnel.

When they don't have any data. So the kind of rule of thumb I use is to work backwards from because you want to be as close to the money as possible, but work backwards from that. So start at, okay. Check out. Do we have enough traffic there to, do you have enough people coming to that page to make a difference?

No, go to the next one. Sales page. How about there? No emails, no opt in page. Okay. We finally have enough people coming to the opt in page. But they're not converting. Okay. So let's fix that first and then lets fix the next one and then let's fix next one. And it's really, it is a funnel because the closest things you can get to the money are at the end.

But if you don't have anyone coming in the top, it doesn't matter.

Rob Walling: [00:17:24] That's interesting. Asia Orangio talks about starting your optimization at the bottom of the funnel, which makes sense, because if you get that working and as you work backwards and more people, you push through it, the more you're going to convert.

But your point is until you have enough people you can't really improve, how can you really even know how to improve, right. How to test, right.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:17:46] Yeah. And I think there are of course, low hanging fruit that you can do on that checkout page.

You could make sure it has a button. There's obvious things you can do at the beginning. At the bottom of the funnel to make sure that it is following best practices, it works right. But when you're looking to improve right. Rules of thumb, but when you're really looking to improve, when you're not, when you're looking for that next thing mean you have to move up the phone and you have to have enough traffic to be able to test because I've worked with a number of clients who are like, Hey, we want to test this button on the sales page.

If it's red or it's blue, and this is a small change. And if you're not getting enough traffic, you're never going to get an answer to that question. But if you have something that has a 1000 or 2000 people coming to it, you're going to get that quick answer question. That question answered pretty quickly.

Rob Walling: [00:18:32] You know, I remember I, I tweeted something , it was probably five years ago and it was just a random thought I had I'd said like being a founder is making hard decisions with incomplete information.

And then I said, I find most of the decisions I make it's like 80% is made on data. And 20% is like rules of thumb and gut feel or something like that. And someone came back, I don't know who it is, but he was like, no, a hundred percent data all the time. I make every decision with data.

And I remember being like, well then how do you build a landing page when you have no traffic? You don't have data yet, you know, it's like that, that's what I was trying to imply. That is. I use, um, my rules of thumb or other people's rules of thumb to do the first cut at pretty much everything. You know, if it's an email that I'm going to send out, if it's a landing page, if it's a, a product or an ad campaign, it's like, how do you decide the first 10 images to test test when you have no data?

You know, what 10 images should I test in the Facebook ad or whatever. And then once you have the data, of course, we're going to go with that, but there has to be something. So gut feeling , I think comes from experience or from, you know, an instinct or whatever.

But I think the nice part is rules of thumb. You can often hear on, on shows like this are conversations with founders who have been doing it long enough that they have their own mental rules of thumb, right. Of what, where the conversion should be.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:19:44] And I think that that's also important when looking and it's, it's a dichotomy because marketing is part science as it's part database, and it's part art because you have to know.

What to do and how people think. It's almost like a, like applied psychology in a way. you have to understand how people think like you can see the data all day. Organic is converting really well, where Facebook is not, but that doesn't tell you what you need to do to fix it. And that's where the art and the psychology and the understanding of those, and that comes with experience.

And even the idea of like, okay, what should we look at to find those outliers? What are some things like, people aren't, they're coming on this webinar, but they're not converting. Well, Facebook ads are not converting because they weren't looking to purchase anything. They're not, it's like just thinking through that mental process of people in each of these modes, as they're coming through that funnel.

And that's how you start getting those ideas of, well, what about this? Oh, what about this? And that's, I think how you build those outliers, how you start to identify people who, who are performing and who aren't performing, and then figure out how you can best tailor your messaging towards them.

Rob Walling: [00:20:57] We have a question from the live audience so Rison Simon says, what is a good traffic number to start optimizing for conversion? So I think he's kind of asking like how much traffic do I need to start splitting thing?.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:21:12] Right. So I generally have around a 100 people. Going through something before I, um, before I start optimizing it. So traffic wise, I would actually say that so traffic is different than optimization. So what I would say is if you have a hundred people filling out the form on a page, you are ripe for optimizing that opt-in.

Yeah, 100 conversions at any step. Is what you should use to say, okay, I now have enough people to start testing this and going through this. Traffic wise, it's interesting because especially when you're split testing, you have a calculation of how statistical significance of that test.

And what we have seen is that when you have small changes, the statistical significance is generally very small. So if you change the wording on a button, a lot of times the change is very small. The difference is going to be very small and it's going to take a long time for you to figure out, okay, did this really move the needle?

Where if you have a big change where it's like a completely different picture of a person or a person versus a robot, or like H1 changes, right? So you're changing the key proposition of the page. These are tests that we see big differences in conversion rates, and you're able to get that statistical significance much quicker.

Yeah. Never knew multi rate, uh, testing when you're, when you only have a little bit of traffic. Cause that will take you years.

Rob Walling: [00:22:44] Never. Never. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, um, that's a big part of it, right? Is it's that experience level of, I know that if I change the headline or the design, like everything on it, that I'm going to have a dramatic difference.

And I know that if I changed some wording in a body paragraph or I change one icon or I changed the button color from blue to red, the odds of me getting that big of a change are pretty low. So you need more traffic, you know, at that to make these tiny tweaks. I think that's a mistake. A mistake I've seen people make is not changing enough or not, not making drastic enough changes.

And then you just let the test run for a month or two. And then it's like, Oh, these are basically the same thing.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:23:27] Yeah. And if you have low traffic generally focus on, so there is no more fold anymore. Anyone who says, Oh, it has to be above the fold. Doesn't exist anymore to a degree, but focus on that hero image that above the fold, what is your H1?

What is the iconography that you're using? When people first visit the page, that's going to be your biggest win because that's the first experience that people are going to have with that page. .

Rob Walling: [00:23:52] Very cool, sir. We are almost at time , but do you have any other thoughts before we close?

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:23:59] I think that I think, especially in the developer community and in the founder community, I think there's a lot of people who think, Oh, marketing, I don't get it.

Or, Oh, it's a dirty word kind of thing. I I'm a developer by trade. Um, I kind of fell into marketing and. The biggest successes I've had with marketing is thinking about marketing the same way I think about development. Where it's not a miasma of things I'm going to do. I break it down, just like we were talking about with those funnels of, we have a start condition, we have an end condition and we have a number of steps, processes that are going to go through everything.

And we just put a number on each one. How is this one doing? What is the value of people who have done this step? What is the dollar value of people who've done this step? And just writing out. I have flow charts for every single marketing campaign we have and we put a dollar value to every single thing, and that lets us easily see where our holes are.

And we can really look at it in a more scientific and structured way than I think a lot of people who are not. In that marketing world, uh, realize that you can do.

Rob Walling: [00:25:08] Yep. I agree. I'm also a developer engineer from, most of my life. And that's how I view marketing too.

I've always viewed it as a technical marketer, a left brain marketer where the numbers in the funnels made sense to my brain. Um, I've heard marketing described as math and human psychology. the math was easy. The math is very natural. And I think if you're a developer lean into the math and learn enough of the human psychology, you mean when, when you say human psychology, it's how people make buying decisions, the stages they go through, , what copywriting is and what sales copy actually looks like. These are the things I had to learn and I read all the, I mean, this was 2005 to 2011. When I was teaching myself this, it was a, there was no startup writing on this.

There was no CopyHackers at the time. It was all the info marketer guys. It was that. Dan Kennedy and that whole crew, which I don't love a lot of the stuff they do from personal perspective. But, but cause they're just too hard driving sales and it's money, money, money. And I feel like some of them like trick people into buying stuff.

Um, but they know copywriting and they know persuasion. And that was a big thing that I think is kind of the other side of it. Totally. And then you can learn from them and apply it in a way that feels comfortable to you. And that's all it is. This is not, it's not so complicated. It's not black magic. the first copy I wrote was crap. Didn't convert very well. And the 10th, , landing page I built was really good, you know, and it's just, it's just learning like the first hello world program you write sucks. And then that 20th code you ship is much better.

Sir, Thank you so much for joining me on MicroConf On Air today.

Yeah. Your Twitter handle is, I feel like I'm going to pronounce it wrong cause it's Japanese. Isn't it. is @harisenbon79.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:26:38] Very close.@harisenbon79.

Rob Walling: [00:26:41] Got it. Okay. @harisenbon79 You used to live in Japan for those who don't know.

So thanks again for coming on the show, man.

Keith Perhac, Segmetrics: [00:26:49] Thanks so much, Rob. I had a great time.

Rob Walling: [00:26:52] Absolutely.

All right. And a couple of housekeeping items as we check out. Thank you so much to Hey and Stripe. There are a flagship partners with MicroConf for the year and they make everything. We do just a little easier and we always appreciate being partners up with them.

MicroConf masterminds are happening. Round two of our matching go to MicroConfmasterminds.com. I believe it's plural, or you can just head to, MicroConf not common and search around for masterminds. If you haven't already had to youtube.com/microphone, it's scribe, and we'll see you next Wednesday. Same time, same place.

MicroConfOnAir.com. Have a good week.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 10: How an Offer to Sell Wistia Inspired Us to Take On $17M in Debt with Chris Savage

Rob Walling — Mon, 31 Aug 2020 05:42:00 +0000

MicroConf Growth 2019

Chris Savage, Wistia

Most founders dream of building a product that eventually becomes a household name and sells for a billion dollars, but chasing that goal comes with some downsides. We chose a different path.

Join the conversation: microconfconnect.com

Twitter: @MicroConf

E-mail: support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe Twitter: @Stripe

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Episode 33: Building Multiple Products Side-by-Side (B2B & B2C Edition) with Sumit Kumar

Rob Walling — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:00:00 +0000

microconfonair.com

This week, we've invited Sumit Kumar (@TweetsOfSumit), Founder of Geoman.io - a B2C product that allows users to draw and edit geodata with our intuitive and powerful leaflet plugins and Tresor.one, an automated portfolio management tool.

This poses the question - what does it take to build and support two businesses as an indie funded SaaS founder? And what can you expect from working with two very different audiences in a B2B and a B2C space.

MicroConf Remote is on the TV Guide for Tuesday, September 1st. Tickets are on sale at microconfremote.com

Join MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

MicroConf Refresh Episode 9: Idea to Validation to Launch: The First 365 Days of Tuple with Ben Orenstein

Rob Walling — Tue, 25 Aug 2020 05:00:00 +0000

MicroConf Starter 2019

After a year of full-time work, Ben has some new scars, some fresh knowledge, and a deep appreciation for the highs and lows of starting a business.

Check out more MicroConf Talks from Ben

➡️ microconf.com/speakers/ben-orenstein

Tuple ➡️https://tuple.app/

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe https://stripe.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp https://basecamp.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

Episode 32: When Funding Ran Dry, These Founders Doubled Down on Growth w/ Jessica Baldwin and Joshua Toenyes

Rob Walling — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 10:00:00 +0000

http://microconfonair.com

Jessica Baldwin and Joshua Toenyes, the Co-Founders of Cardsetter, were seeking funding options in early 2020. Then the pandemic hit and their funding options seemed to run dry. As a result, the spent the last 5 months doubling down on growth, more than 5x-ing their customer base.

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

MicroConf Refresh Episode 8: From Side Project to Full-Time Business in 8 Months with Abi Noda

Rob Walling — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 18:10:00 +0000

MicroConf Starter 2019

Abi is the founder of Pull Reminders. Pull Reminders helps teams knock out code reviews faster on GitHub and is used by over 1,000+ companies like Pivotal, Buffer, and Instacart. Come hear the story of how I went from losing my job to bootstrapping my business to profitability over the course of several months.

Pull Reminders ➡️https://pullreminders.com

MicroConf Connect ➡️http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe Twitter: @Stripe

stripe.com

Basecamp Twitter: @Basecamp

basecamp.com

Episode 31: SaaSMag and How to Access Traditional Media

Rob Walling — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 19:21:00 +0000

microconfonair.com

This week, we are joined by Thomas Smale, Co-Founder of FE International and Owner of SaaSMag to talk about how traditional media can be leveraged by startup foudners.

We also capitalize on Thomas' expertise in Mergers and Acquisitions in this episode, talking ahout buying and selling business, available funding strategies for acquiring businesses.

Tickets for MicroConf Remote are now on sale, grab your tickets at http://microconfremote.com.

We had some issues with the recording, so this is a truncated version of this weeks episode.

MicroConf Refresh Episode 7: An Unconventional Business: 10,000 Users, One-time Pricing, & a Two-Person Team with Claire Lew

Rob Walling — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 05:00:00 +0000

MicroConf 2016

Claire Lew has run an unconventional business – this is the story of how she created a profitable, bootstrapped software company that has over 10,000+ people using our product, on a their-time pricing model, with just a two-person team. How do we they it? She’ll share our unconventional approach, why they chose it, and the greatest lessons they've learned along the way.

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf

E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe https://stripe.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp https://basecamp.com

Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

Episode 30: The Pros and Cons of Productized Services

Rob Walling — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 10:00:00 +0000

microconfonair.com

Meryl Johnston is the co-founder of Bean Ninja's, a productized service built around Xero accounting and bookkeeping software. During this conversation, Rob and Meryl discuss the pro's and con's of productized services, how to build a product that is centered around a service that you don't own, and more.

We also announced MicroConf Remote, our first virtual conference taking place on August 26th, 2020. For tickets, head over to http://microconfremote.com

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

Microconf Refresh Episode 6: From Zero to $4M/year Without Quora, Hacker News, or Mixergy with Jesse Mecham

Rob Walling — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 05:00:00 +0000

I didn't know how to build a website, write sales copy, design, structure my business, close a deal, develop software, or do SEO. But I shipped, doing things I didn't know you weren't supposed to do. A few thousand mistakes later, we grossed $4 million. Here are my most embarrassing moments.

Check Out Jesse’s MicroConf Speakers Page for More Talks ➡️ https://microconf.com/speakers/jesse-mecham

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe https://stripe.com Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

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Episode 29: Founder Spotlights with Edwin Williams and Tony Chan

Rob Walling — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:04:00 +0000

http://microconfonair.com

Today, we're joined by MicroConf Connect members Edwin Williams, Founder of ZenHammer, and Tony Chan, Founder of CloudForecast.

If you want to be featured on our Founder Spotlight series, join MicroConf Connect @ www.microconfconnect.com.

https://microconf.com

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

Microconf Refresh Episode 5: 11 Years to Overnight Success: From Beach Towels to A Successful Exit - Rob Walling

Rob Walling — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:00:00 +0000

MicroConf Growth 2017

Rob does a deep-dive into the decision-making framework he used during the acquisition of Drip. He reflects on his journey from 2005 through 2017, looking back at his changing motivation as he stair-stepped his way from tiny early businesses like a beach towel e-commerce site, to a seven-figure SaaS app. And he provides in-depth information about what a life-changing acquisition looks like from the inside.

Check out Rob’s MicroConf speakers page for more talk’s ➡️ https://microconf.com/speakers/rob-walling

Episode 28: Where to Find Web Marketing Opportunities with Rand Fishkin

Rob Walling — Thu, 23 Jul 2020 11:05:00 +0000

http://microconfonair.com

During this conversation with Rand Fishkin, the CEO and Co-Founder of SparkToro, we are chatting about high quality web marketing opportunities and how to make the most out of those outlets.

Rand mentions a few resources:

Communities for Marketers:
Coywolf Community
Data Driven U

Check out Rand's Blog Post, "119 Examples of 10X Content (by Rand Fishkin) | SparkToro"

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
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Microconf Refresh Episode 4: Building Things to Help Sell The Things You Build - Patrick McKenzie (Patio11)

Rob Walling — Tue, 21 Jul 2020 05:00:00 +0000

https://microconf.com MicroConf 2013

Or: how to embed marketing development in your business as a repeatable practice. Why it isn’t easy, how you can get started and the single most important thing you can do to improve your growth. Put your hand up if you are convinced of the importance of any of the following for your business: SEO/Adwords A/B testing Conversion optimisation Funnel analytics Onboarding/first-run experience Lifecycle emails/drip marketing Now. Keep your hands up if you think you’ve totally got these sorted. No room for improvement. In which case you won’t need to watch Patrick’s talk, but might still want to consider it: he finishes with a moving personal testimony to the importance of discussing mental health issues in the developer community.

If you work in software the chances are good that you will know someone who will benefit from this discussion. Check out Patio11's MicroConf speakers page for more talk’s ➡️ https://microconf.com/speakers/patric...

Episode 27: Using Organic Content As Your Flywheel with Christopher Gimmer

Rob Walling — Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:00:00 +0000

We're welcoming co-founder of Snappa, Christopher Gimmer, to talk about SEO, content development, YouTube, and how each of those pieces, done correctly, can create a flywheel for your startup.

Check out more talks from Christopher ➡️ https://microconf.com/speakers/christopher-gimmer

MicroConf Connect ➡️ http://microconfconnect.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/MicroConf
E-mail ➡️ support@microconf.com

MicroConf 2020 Headline Partners

Stripe
https://stripe.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Stripe

Basecamp
https://basecamp.com
Twitter ➡️ https://twitter.com/Basecamp

MicroConf Refresh Episode 3: Playing the Long Game: Making Entrepreneurship a Sustainable Life - Dr. Sherry Walling

Rob Walling — Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:13:00 +0000