Malith Gamage is the co-founder of Zapdigits, a privacy-first client reporting and marketing dashboard platform built for agencies. Originally from Sri Lanka and based in the Netherlands, Malith brings 15+ years of SaaS product development experience, including time at Brevo (a European unicorn) and an InsureTech company. He bootstrapped Zapdigits with his fiancée — a UX/UI designer — after identifying a gap in affordable, white-labeled reporting tools for small and mid-size marketing agencies.

What We Cover

• How a personal pain point — sharing data with a non-technical co-founder — led to the founding of Zapdigits
• Why white labeling on every plan (not just premium tiers) is Zapdigits' core differentiator against Agency Analytics and Looker Studio
• The current state of AI SEO reporting: what's trackable, what's not, and why the same query returns five different answers from the same LLM
• How European GDPR concerns shape product decisions around AI features and data handling — and why self-hosted LLMs are part of the solution
• The four-tier value pitch framework Jeremy uses to help SaaS founders move beyond 'we save you time' to identity-level positioning
• Bootstrap vs. investor funding: when to take the money, and what happens to product direction when you do

Episode Highlights

Malith originally built Zapdigits as an internal tool to solve a specific frustration: his non-technical co-founder kept asking for Stripe revenue and campaign data, and Malith didn't want to hand over full platform access. That internal dashboard became the seed of a full product — one that now serves over 90% SEO-focused marketing agencies, with Search Console, Google Analytics, and Google Business Profile as the three most-requested data connectors.

"White labeling — normally, competitors put it on the highest plan. We are focused on offering it on any of our plans."

On the AI SEO reporting front, Malith is candid about how messy the space is right now. Zapdigits currently aggregates brand visibility data across multiple LLMs — ChatGPT, Gemini, and others — to produce averaged visibility scores for agency clients. But as he explains, "domain authority doesn't seem to matter — sometimes it's a very new blog they pull from." He even found his own zero-DA Zapdigits AI domain being surfaced in responses after he'd never promoted it. The full breakdown of how they're approaching this is in their blog post on monitoring ChatGPT visibility at scale.

One of the most practical discussions in the episode centers on why shipping a bad AI feature is worse than shipping no AI feature. Malith's approach: before any feature goes live, he recruits the user who requested it for beta testing. That feedback loop — built from lifetime deal buyers and direct email conversations — has shaped the Zapdigits public roadmap, which users can vote on directly.

"Your AI is only as smart as your schema. As long as you give the correct data and the correct description, you will get good answers back."

Jeremy and Malith close with a rich conversation about when (or whether) to take venture capital. Malith observes that most of his direct competitors — including Agency Analytics — are bootstrapped. Jeremy shares a first-hand account of how Tap Clicks' investor-driven priorities reshaped product development at Raven Tools, and contrasts the Semrush (public) vs. Ahrefs (private) trajectories. The bottom line, in Malith's words: "In the SaaS business, the main advice is: don't die. As long as you can stay alive for three or four years, you're good."

Connect with Malith Gamage

Website: zapdigits.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/malithmcr

Blog: zapdigits.com/blog

️ Public Roadmap: zapdigits.com/roadmap

About the Show

The Unscripted SEO Podcast is hosted by Jeremy Rivera and features candid, unscripted conversations with SEO practitioners, agency owners, and marketing leaders. New episodes drop weekly at unscriptedseo.com.

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Kevin Urrutia is a software engineer turned serial entrepreneur with 20+ years of experience building tech products. He's worked at Silicon Valley companies including Mint.com and Zaarly, and founded Voy Media, a digital marketing agency that has generated over $50 million in revenue. His latest venture, Magic Rinku, tackles one of SEO's most persistent challenges: automating internal link building at scale.

Connect with Kevin:

• Email: kevin@magicrinku.com
• Twitter: @danest
• Website: Magic Rinku

Episode Summary

In this unscripted conversation, Kevin shares the journey of building Magic Rinku from personal frustration to SaaS solution. We dive deep into the technical challenges of WordPress integration, the strategic use of AI versus traditional algorithms, and unconventional marketing approaches that are actually working in 2025.

Kevin reveals how he discovered 350 out of 400 articles on his own site had zero internal links, the technical nightmare of supporting multiple WordPress page builders, and why cold email and Reddit still outperform traditional SaaS marketing for developer tools.

Key Topics Covered

The Genesis Story

• How Kevin's personal pain with internal linking across 8-10 affiliate sites led to Magic Rinku
• The validation process through Reddit and direct customer conversations
• Why most SEO professionals are missing huge linking opportunities due to broken manual processes

Technical Deep Dive

• WordPress ecosystem challenges: Supporting Elementor, Beaver Builder, Gutenberg, and Classic Editor
• The 30-second delay problem and why bulk operations are complex in WordPress
• Database structure differences across page builders and how they affect plugin development
• Error handling and retry systems for WordPress API integration

AI Implementation Philosophy

• Strategic use of AI vs. traditional algorithms (RAKE, ENG tagger)
• Two specific AI use cases: contextual understanding and smart sentence generation
• Why 30% of AI suggestions are perfect, 50% need tweaking, and 20% are unusable
• The explainability problem and showing confidence scores to users

Advanced SEO Features

• Silo construction from both technical and strategic perspectives
• Tree rebalancing algorithms for hierarchical site structures
• Why circular silos were pulled from production despite working code
• The decision framework for shipping features vs. keeping them in development

Unconventional Marketing Strategy

• Cold email targeting WordPress agencies 
• Reddit as a B2B channel for finding people actively complaining about the problem
• Why traditional SaaS marketing (content, paid ads) doesn't work for unknown problem categories
• The two-email rule and why persistence beyond that is counterproductive

Company Philosophy

• Intentionally staying at 2-3 person team size
• Lifestyle business approach vs. venture scale ambitions
• The hiring challenge: finding people who understand both WordPress and SEO
• Using contractors vs. full-time employees at current scale

Quotable Moments

"Even for someone like me who knows SEO, who's been doing this for years, I had this massive blind spot. When I ran my prototype, it found 350 articles with zero internal links out of 400 total articles."

"Our biggest competitor is Excel spreadsheets and manual processes. There are other tools, but most are part of $200-500/month SEO suites. We do one thing really well."

"My rule is pretty simple - use AI for problems that require understanding context and nuance, use traditional algorithms for problems that have clear mathematical solutions."

"The freedom is the best part of being a founder, but also the worst part because you have infinite options every day."

"If a feature works for 80% of use cases and doesn't break anything, I ship it. I can iterate based on real user feedback rather than trying to anticipate every edge case."

Resources Mentioned

Tools & Platforms

• Magic Rinku - AI-powered internal link building
• WordPress page builders: Elementor, Beaver Builder, Gutenberg, Divi
• Convert SEO - for finding WordPress agencies
• Screaming Frog - SEO crawling tool
• Ahrefs - SEO platform mentioned for potential integration

Books & Learning Resources

• "The Mom Test" by Rob Fitzpatrick - customer development
• SEO blogs and communities for understanding user problems
• Reddit communities for market research and validation

Marketing Channels

• Cold email outreach to WordPress agencies
• Reddit for finding users with the specific problem
• Word of mouth within the SEO community
• Organic search for "WordPress internal linking plugin"

Key Takeaways for SaaS Founders

Product Development

1. Build something you actually use daily - Customer development is easier when you are the customer
2. Ship at 80% completeness - Iterate based on real feedback rather than anticipating edge cases
3. Use AI strategically - Apply it for context/nuance problems, traditional algorithms for mathematical solutions
4. WordPress is complex but necessary - 40% market share makes technical challenges worthwhile

Marketing & Sales

1. Go where people complain about problems - Don't wait for them to search for solutions
2. Cold email still works - When targeting the right problem with the right audience
3. Two-email maximum rule - More persistence often backfires
4. Reddit can be B2B - Focus on DMs to people explicitly stating problems

Business Strategy

1. Focus beats feature creep - Most SaaS tools fail from doing too much, not too little
2. Lifestyle business is valid - Don't scale into a job you hate
3. Small teams move faster - Less meeting overhead, closer to customers

Technical Decisions

1. Platform integration vs. standalone - User experience often trumps technical simplicity
2. Error handling is crucial - WordPress ecosystem requires robust retry systems
3. Multiple complexity levels - Serve both power users and beginners in the same tool
4. Documentation for key person risk - Critical when running lean teams

Angshuman shares insights on customer needs, market trends, and the importance of sales feedback in shaping product development. He's been heading up the creation and product management of their new TapDataMax product, and shared a lot of detail on the way Tapclicks views the "movement" of data. The discussion also touches on the evolving terminology in marketing technology, the role of AI in data management, and the future roadmap for TapClicks, including new features and integrations.

• Tool Desk started with a focus on home services and lead qualification.
• The initial product was inspired by a need for ringless voicemail systems.
• Pricing is strategically set at $149/month for the Jobber plug-in.
• Customer support is highly personalized, with direct communication from founders.
• The company is 100% bootstrapped, allowing for thoughtful financial decisions.
• Cold outbound marketing has been effective for customer acquisition.
• Building a product that fills gaps in existing platforms is crucial.
• Platform risk is a significant concern for businesses relying on third-party services.
• Future-proofing involves diversifying product offerings and reducing dependency on a single platform.
• The founders prioritize building something people want and scaling thoughtfully. The value proposition of Tool Desk AI is to fill marketing automation gaps.
• Platform dependency can pose significant risks for SaaS businesses.
• Tool Desk AI acts as a 24/7 sales representative for capturing leads.
• AI technology is being utilized to enhance lead qualification processes.
• Onboarding for home service businesses is designed to be frictionless and quick.
• The AI is trained on each customer's website to provide tailored interactions.
• Even if you're doing B2B, like saving commercial kitchens on cost, customer feedback is crucial for success.
• Marketing strategies include cold outreach and SEO optimization.
• Building a SaaS product requires a strong understanding of coding or a capable partner.
• Entrepreneurs should only pursue SaaS if they have a clear market need and potential customer interest

• Vooz aims to innovate in the anonymous video chat space with AI moderation.
• User engagement features like screen sharing and games are key to Vooz's strategy.
• Bootstrapping has been essential for Vooz's development and team formation.
• Finding motivated co-founders can be challenging but crucial for success.
• SEO and PPC are primary marketing strategies for user acquisition.
• Understanding how pricing strategy impacts SaaS marketing decisions
• Influencer partnerships can drive initial traffic but should be complemented by SEO efforts.
• Monetization opportunities are abundant once a user base is established.
• Starting with design helps in attracting talent and building a vision.
• AI moderation is a significant technical achievement for Vooz.
• Taking action and starting somewhere is vital for aspiring entrepreneurs.

• Mark Williams-Cook: Director of Kanda (formerly Candour SEO agency)
• Creator of Also Asked, a search intent research tool
• Publisher of Core Updates Newsletter
• Host of SEO Patent Podcast
• 20+ years of SEO experience

Key Topics Covered

Current Google Search "Meta"

• Google's algorithm favors brand-like signals over traditional relevance
• Example: The Vatican website ranking for CBD gummies after being hacked
• Mark describes this as "a bandaid for the shortfalls that have been magnified in Google's algorithm because of Gen.ai"

Content Creation Strategy

• Video-first approach: "Start at video and work backwards" using transcription tools
• Particularly effective for client information: "If you are having to get information, especially from clients, sometimes trying to get clients to write an article is like getting blood out of a stone"
• Allows natural expertise to flow: "They will happily talk your ear off"
• Tools turn video into written content without "regurgitating stuff"

User Knowledge Levels

• Google has patents for understanding user expertise through search patterns
• Demonstrated in People Also Ask (PAA) results showing different questions based on perceived knowledge
• Example: Car dealership knowledge levels
  • Novice: "Red car under $20k near me"
  • Intermediate: "2024 Honda Civic MPG vs Toyota Corolla"
  • Expert: "Civic Type R torque curve comparison"

Google Query Classification

• Google classifies queries into distinct semantic categories
• These classifications determine which SERP features appear
• Additional classifiers like "local intent" and "explicit local intent" work alongside these categories
• Mark is developing a tool to predict which category a query falls into

Evolution of SERP Features

• AI Overviews: Likely to eventually replace featured snippets
  • More dynamic and nuanced answers
  • Google reported 90% cost reduction in generating them
• Featured Snippets: Currently coexist with AI overviews
• People Also Ask (PAA): Critical for Google's query understanding
  • Mentioned in DOJ trial as part of Google's "induction loop"
  • Allow Google to understand different interpretations of the same query
  • Localization feature coming to Also Asked tool

The Future of Search

• Prediction: Shift from users doing research to AI agents doing it for them
• "I think we are going to have a fundamental shift of rather than people doing their own research..."
• Advantage to companies that own hardware (Google, Apple, Microsoft)
• Privacy concerns will diminish as convenience increases

SEO Tools Mentioned

• Also Asked: Mark's tool for analyzing PAA data
• Screaming Frog: For automated content analysis
• ChatGPT API: For content gap analysis
• Perplexity: AI search tool Mark recommends
• 11 Labs: Voice cloning technology (mentioned in context of potential misuse)
• Storm: Stanford's agentic model for scientific paper creation

Technical SEO Insights

• Google uses binary trust systems for many technical signals
• "If you get them all wrong, it's not like Google will trust you a bit less. They just have a very simple thing of, well, you don't seem to know what you're doing."
• Site reputation abuse handled manually rather than algorithmically
• Example of PageRank evolution: still used but significantly modified from original patent

People Referenced

• Mordy Oberstein: Mentioned regarding brand discussions
• Gary Illyes ("Garyish"): Google representative
• Danny Sullivan: Google Search Liaison
• Darren Shaw: Discussed query categories with Mark
• Arnoud Hellman: Provided examples of localized PAAs
• Bill Slawski ("Bill Flosky"): Known for patent analysis
• Olaf Kopp: Current patent analysis work
• Lily Ray: Mentioned regarding Reddit in SERPs
• Michael Buckby of Noah Toa
• Matt Brooks of SEOteric
• Commercial restaurant cost savings company:Save Fry Oil 

Resources

• Search Engine Land guide: Mark's guide on using Screaming Frog with Also Asked
• learningseo.io: Referenced for learning about SERP features

Live Test Examples

• "Jam sandwiches" query test showing AI overview replacing featured snippet
• Demonstration of entity analysis with non-existent URL showing AI hallucination issues

Upcoming Developments

• Query classification tool (planned release before Brighton SEO in April)
• Also Asked localization feature allowing city-specific PAA monitoring
• Location-specific search results using longitude/latitude data

SEO Conferences Mentioned

• Brighton SEO
• SERPConf

Contact Information

• LinkedIn: Mark Williams-Cook
• Bluesky: Mark Williams-Cook (previously on Twitter/X)
• Newsletter: CoreUpdates.com