Chapters

• (00:00:01) - Inverse Interviews Hilary Scarcella
• (00:02:07) - Anabaptist and the Sexual Abuse of Mennonites
• (00:07:28) - The Cesar Chavez Sexual Abuse Story
• (00:18:10) - The problem of child abuse in the Christian Church
• (00:22:53) - A Week in the Life of Jesus
• (00:24:26) - Hillary on Her Early Experiences With The Bible
• (00:29:30) - In the Elevator With Anabaptists
• (00:33:29) - Contemplating the Life of Jesus
• (00:39:28) - Oh My God! My 4 Year Old Says Jesus Got Stabbed
• (00:41:25) - Read the Bible From Your Own Life
• (00:48:13) - Imagine a World Without Abuse
• (00:54:44) - Inverse Podcast: A Different Kind of Community
• (00:56:41) - Community and Sexual Violence
• (01:02:51) - Vocarious Leadership: The Problem
• (01:07:42) - The Problem of Power in the Church

Zach W. Lambert is the lead pastor and founder of Restore, a church in Austin, Texas. Under his leadership, Restore has grown from a launch team of five people in 2015 to more than 1,000 members today. He holds a bachelor’s degree in communication from Hardin-Simmons University, a Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is pursuing his Doctorate at Duke Divinity School.

Zach is the cofounder of the Post Evangelical Collective and serves on the boards of the Austin Church Planting Network and the Multi-Faith Neighbors Network. Zach and his wife, Amy, met each other in the 6th grade, fell in love at 17, and got married at 21. They love watching live music, discovering local Mexican food places, and playing with their two boys.

Chapters

• (00:00:01) - Interview
• (00:02:17) - Introducing Restoring the Kingdom
• (00:06:55) - Jesus on the Cross
• (00:11:57) - On Being kicked Out of the Southern Baptist Church
• (00:18:17) - Zach Struggles With The Bible
• (00:24:09) - The Harmful Lenses of Fundamentalism
• (00:28:42) - The Four Harmful Lenses of Biblical Literature
• (00:30:54) - Three Pillars of Flourishing the Bible
• (00:33:38) - The Widow's Might in Luke 21
• (00:39:47) - Widow Laying Down Everything for Christ
• (00:43:07) - Jesus on Legal Hermeneutics
• (00:47:13) - The Use of Bible Verses to Support Hate
• (00:52:15) - Stop Stealing Children: Christian theology
• (00:54:07) - Zach Lambert on The Bible and Public Theology

Brueggemann wasn’t simply a scholar, he was a prophet. This is not hyperbole. This is a precise analysis of his vocation as one who devoted his life to the Sacred Scriptures of a dangerously free God. He was a poet as are the prophets, he would insist. His “prophetic imagination” was shaped by a lifetime of dedication to the texts that demanded of him pathos, lament and a consciousness counter to empire.

He was a person of the kind of prayer that undergoes the kind of grace that requires doing justice, and loving mercy and a scholarship from a deep humility before the Scriptures while walking with the God they witnessed to. I will tell my grandchildren of the three days my brother Don and I stayed with Tia and Walter Brueggemann. I will tell stories of how Elaine and Ched Myers introduced me to Walter a few years prior and how I got to have lunch with one of the greatest Hebrew Bible scholars in the world and start a friendship. I will tell of how I got to introduce my mate Jono Martin to Walter and how I snapped a cheeky moment as my friend Traci took a selfie with the Bruggz coz we are giddy fans. I will tell of his humour, humility and indomitable brilliance that was paired with a warm kind curiosity.

Unquestionably one of my biggest influences, I’m always reading Walter when preparing for a sermon, and not merely in the Old Testament. I first read Walter at the age of 22 and haven’t stopped. Yet I haven’t come close to reading his over 100 books. I’ve literally led hundreds of people through his “The Prophetic Imagination” and it is in my top 5 greatest books of Christian discipleship.

Walter, your life was a blaze with God’s justice and I’m thankful for the ways you set me on fire.

Rest in Peace.

- Jarrod McKenna

Stan Grant is a Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi man. He is a public intellectual who has worked as a journalist, presenter, filmmaker and author. In his journalism he has reported from more than 80 countries, won three Walkley Awards, a Logie Award and four Asia TV Awards. As a writer he has published seven books including the bestselling Talking to My Country, which won the Walkley Book Award. In 2016, he was appointed to the Referendum Council on Indigenous recognition. In 2018, he was appointed Professor of Global Affairs at Griffith University. The full-length documentary film The Australian Dream won the
2019 AACTA Award for Best Feature Documentary and the 2019 Walkley Documentary Award. In 2020, he became the International Affairs Analyst at the ABC and the Vice-Chancellor's Chair of Australian-Indigenous Belonging at Charles Sturt University. From 2022-23, Grant hosted the ABC's current affairs panel program Q+A.

The conversation unpacks her book Othered, which offers insights on navigating spiritual trauma, healing wounds inflicted in the name of faith, and finding hope and belonging. Jenai discusses her evolving understanding of God, the role of scripture in addressing pain, and her use of a trauma-informed hermeneutic to reframe biblical narratives.

This episode invites listeners into a vulnerable and healing dialogue about faith, resilience, and the courage to reclaim spiritual identity after loss. With honesty and compassion, Jenai's story is a testament to the power of grace, self-discovery, and community.

Richard discusses his lifelong commitment to tethering social justice to biblical theology, reflecting on his early experiences with faith, his evolution as a scholar, and the transformative power of scripture. The conversation delves into the challenges of navigating justice within Christian traditions often mired in historical entanglements with racism, patriarchy, and predatory capitalism.

Highlighting passages from the Gospels, Crane offers insights into Jesus' mission to heal and liberate, interpreting these acts as divine insurrection against systemic evil. The episode challenges listeners to consider what it means to live out a justice-oriented faith and to embody a theology of liberation in a world shaped by oppression.

Join the conversation for a thought-provoking discussion on theology, justice, and the transformative work of faith.

Michael Sheldrick is a driving force behind the efforts of Global Citizen to end extreme poverty. With a career that spans the world of pop and policy, Michael has worked with an impressive roster of international artists such as Beyoncé, Coldplay, Sabrina and Idris Elba, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Priyanka Chopra, Rihanna and Usher, as well as prominent political leaders including Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Barbados’ Prime Minister Mia Mottley, former UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, and former Australian Prime Ministers Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd.

As a Co-Founder and Chief Policy, Impact, and Government Affairs Officer, he leads the organization's campaigns to mobilize support from governments, businesses, and foundations.

He has co-produced some of the world's most impactful social campaigns and events, including the annual Global Citizen Festival in New York, the Guinness World Record-winning virtual concert One World: Together At Home, and the Nelson Mandela 2018 centennial celebration. These initiatives have reached millions of people in over a hundred and fifty countries and helped secure over forty billion in support for local and regional organizations working to provide access to essential resources such as healthcare, education, and climate resilience.

Dr Drew Hart wrote of Mark’s new book,

“Improvising Church is a harmony of scriptural insight and pastoral wisdom, soulfully explored. Drawing from the metaphors of jazz, Glanville calls Western churches in post-Christian contexts to embrace an improvisational journey shaped by the biblical narrative and the perception of artists within incarnational community that loves their place and its people. Like a musician in sync with our contextual rhythm, Glanville urges us to embrace our interconnectedness with creation, tying that to the need to confront the legacies of colonialism with courageous solidarity. This book resonates deeply, hits all the right notes, and will inspire you to embrace a new, transformative song to improvise with for our twenty-first-century witness."

Jarrod McKenna has said,

"Mark Glanville writes with a kind of humility, curiosity, creativity, and compassion that are not merely desired but required when learning from traditions that you've been graciously grafted into—be it from Moses or Miles Davis, Elijah or Ella Fitzgerald, Nathanael or Nina Simone, John Coltrane or Jesus, the Christ. Mark has experienced a 'love supreme' and is inviting us to take giant steps of communal improvisation and imagine somethin' else, an alternative to Christendom and its colonial legacy, something that looks like Jesus, something that is the shape of things to come."

This episode was created in collaboration with Freedom Road Podcast, hosted by Lisa Sharon Harper.
The Freedom Road podcast is a forum for experiences that build common understanding, common commitment and common action. It is produced each month by FreedomRoad.us.

A very special deep dive into the theo-ethical questions arising in the context of the genocide in Gaza. Join us as we hear from three leading Palestinian Christian theologians as they approach Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the context of genocide.

Lisa Sharon Harper is a prolific speaker, award-winning author and internationally respected activist. Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us, a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap in our nation by designing forums and experiences that bring common understanding, common commitment and common action.

Join us with two of Philadelphia’s leaders, Lisa Sharon Harper and Shane Claiborne to discuss what the next stage of the movement looks like.

Join us as we create a space to listen to theologian, Marah Sarji.
Marah Sarji is a PhD student of theology at Princeton Theological Seminary. Born and raised in Nazareth, she became passionate about justice and peace in Palestine and is active among young Palestinian Christians working on decolonizing Palestinian Christianity. Marah’s research interests include womanist theology, Palestinian liberation theology, anthropology of theology, coloniality and decolonization.

The next day he rang me (Jarrod) and asked if I would be interested in doing a walk too. I responded, “Mate, I think the world would be interested!”

I picked up the phone and soon Lisa Sharon Harper, Suzan Wahhab, Mae Cannon, James Harris and I were all in tears. Not merely because of what is happening but of how the Holy Spirit is moving.

GazaCeasefirePilgrimage.com was born.

2 weeks later, *12 counties • 77 cities* have signed up. Come join Dr Drew Hart as he facilitates us hearing the story, learning about the movement and responding to the invitation to transfigure our trauma and put our compassion into action for those who are suffering.

The Global Gaza Ceasefire Pilgrimage Movement Founders:

Suzan Wahhab shares the living faith of her ancestors, the First Christians, and is the President of Palestinian Christians in Australia. Suzan was born in Jerusalem and grew up in Ramallah before moving to Sydney, Australia where she is also a CPA and financial strategist.

Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon is the executive director of Churches for Middle East Peace, an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC), and a well-respected North American voice, author and advocate in the Middle East and at home on justice, peacebuilding, and the Holy Land.

Lisa Sharon Harper is a prolific speaker, award-winning author and internationally respected activist. Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us, a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap in our nation by designing forums and experiences that bring common understanding, common commitment and common action.

Australian pastor, social change educator and activist, Jarrod McKenna, has been described by Martin Luther King Jr’s co-worker, Rev. Jim Lawson, as “an expert in nonviolent social change.” Jarrod is the Founding Director of CommonGrace.org.au, a pastor with Steeple Church in Melbourne, and the co-founder of the InVerse Collective and Podcast with Dr Drew Hart.

And missing but very much the holder of the “Mustard Seed” that started the movement…

James Harris is a proud West Aucklander whose passion for empowering community-based advocacy has seen him relocate to Amman, Jordan and remote Western Australia. He is currently the Director of Strategic Projects with NAYBA Australia, where he is working on projects related to community sponsorship of refugees and young people in out-of-home care.

Safina Stewart is a proud Wuthithi and Mabuiag Island woman who grew up cross-culturally in New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and Australia. Safina is passionate about culture, education, the arts, justice and faith and is Common Grace's Relationships and Storytelling Coordinator. Safina lives with her family in regional Victoria on the lands of the Bunarong people.

Gershon Nimbalker is the National Director of Common Grace and founder of Sojourners Social Change Consultants. He has more than 15 years of experience working in advocacy, policy and research, as well as leading and growing grass roots movements to campaign on issues of social justice. Gershon lives on the lands of Awabakal peoples in Newcastle, NSW with his young family.

Much like our “Nonviolent Atonements” series, alongside exploring with surprising people how the Scriptures can turn our world upside down.

Dennis has three decades of urban pastoral ministry experience. He most recently served as senior pastor of The Sanctuary Covenant Church in Minneapolis, MN. Prior to that, he was the founding pastor of Peace Fellowship Church in Washington, DC; associate and then lead pastor of Washington Community Fellowship on Capitol Hill (Washington, DC); and founding pastor of New Community Church in Brooklyn, NY.

Dennis holds a Bachelor of Science degree in chemical engineering (Cornell University) and has been a high school science and math teacher. He also earned a Master of Divinity degree in Urban Ministry (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) as well as a Master of Arts and Ph.D. degrees in Biblical Studies (Catholic University of America). Dennis enjoys baking, playing his flute and saxophone, as well as weightlifting and cycling—as much as his body will let him.

Sheila is a member of The Redbud Writers Guild and The International Women's Writers Guild. Her essays can be found in numerous blogs, newspapers, journals, and books such as; The Boston Sunday Globe newspaper, The Wonder Years: 40 Women Over 40 on Aging, Faith, Beauty and Strength, Voices of Lament, and The Gospel of Peace in A Violent World. In 2020 Sheila authored the award-winning book Healing Racial Trauma: The Road to Resilience and, recently, Young, Gifted, and Black: A Journey of Lament and Celebration. She is a sought-after speaker at retreats, colleges, churches, organizations, and seminaries in the USA and abroad. Sheila's also a volunteer member of the Community Ethics Committee of Harvard Medical School, a policy-review resource for its teaching hospitals.

She lives in Boston, Massachusetts, with Nicholas, her husband of 31 years, and near their adult children. When she is not engaging in ministry, Sheila loves date nights with her husband and creating art, crafts and rummaging through vintage shops.

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney produces inverse Podcast

Follow Tamice: Instagram @tamicenamaespeaks Twitter @TamiceNamae Substack https://tamicenamaespeaks.substack.com and www.subcultureinc.org 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney produces inverse Podcast

After attending public and private schools, Lisa attended college at the University of Alabama, both Tuscaloosa and Birmingham campuses. She worked for 18 years at the Greater Birmingham Convention & Visitors Bureau promoting tourism and was instrumental in assisting with the development of Civil Right Historic Tours in the Greater Birmingham area. Later she spent seven years working full-time in her family’s business, Chris McNair Studios & Art Gallery, and now serves as a professional photographer with her business, Posh Photographers. Lisa worked for 15 years at Hand in Paw, a local nonprofit that provides Animal Assisted Therapy. She blossomed during this time because it allowed her to express her love of serving people and animals.

Currently, she is a national public speaker under her own business, Speak Lisa. Lisa shares the story of Denise’s life, her heinous murder, and how it affected her family and the city of Birmingham. As part of that work, she also conducts Anti-Racism workshops where she speaks on racial unity and how we must all remember that as human beings, we have more things in common than we have that are different.

Lisa serves on several boards, including the Morgan Project, UAB’s Community and Scientific Action Board (CSAB), Four Little Girls Memorial Fund, and Faith in Action Alabama.

On September 13th of this year, Lisa became a published author with her book, Dear Denise: Letters to the Sister I Never Knew, published by UA Press. In this memoir, she opens up and shares, very honestly, her life story in letters she’s written to her late sister Denise.

Lisa hopes that the lessons learned from the heinous murder of her sister and others in the Civil Rights Movement will never be forgotten but will remain present to help us remember never to repeat the horrible evilness of that time.

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Gushee is the elected Past-President of both the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Christian Ethics, signaling his role as one of America's leading Christian ethicists. He is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of more than 25 books and over 175 academic book chapters, journal articles, and reviews. His most recognized works include Introducing Christian Ethics, Righteous Gentiles of the Holocaust, Kingdom Ethics, and The Sacredness of Human Life. With his Changing Our Mind (more than 25,000 sold) and After Evangelicalism, he charts a theological and ethical course for post-evangelical Christians, a course he more personally relates in memoir, Still Christian. Altogether his books have sold over 100,000 copies and been translated into a dozen languages.

Over a full 29-year career, he’s been a devoted teacher and mentor as Professor Gushee to college students, seminarians, and PhD students. He’s also led activist efforts on climate, torture, and LGBTQ inclusion, and continues to be a keynote speaker at churches, forums, and universities.

For the general media, Gushee has written hundreds of opinion pieces and given interviews to scores of major outlets and podcasts.

David and his beloved wife Jeanie live in Atlanta. He is a classic novel reader, world traveler, and tennis player, and awaits a call from his beloved Atlanta Braves to resume the baseball career he abandoned in college.

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

He is the host of the podcast “The Church Needs Therapy” and is the author of the forthcoming books, “The Making of a Mystic: My Journey with Mushrooms, My Life as a Pastor, and Why It’s Okay For Everyone to Relax,” out on May 31st, and “The Joy of Letting Go” which will be out in January 2023. Both on Quoir Publishing.

He lives In Honolulu with his wife and co-founder of Imagine, Christine, and their two kids, True and Mikayla.

Follow Kevin Sweeney on Instagram @kevinsweeney1

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Laura on Twitter @laurambarringer

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Cole Arthur Riley on IG @blackliturgies and @colearthurriley

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Van Badham on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/vanbadham/) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/vanbadham) @vanbadham 

Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart 

Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Follow Brian on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/BrianZahnd) and [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/brianzahnd) @brianzahnd as well as [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/BrianZahnd/). 

Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. 

Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://twitter.com/jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna. 

Discover our global community on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/inversepodcast) and [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/inversepodcast) @inversepodcast. 

Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse Inverse is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney with music provided by David Andrew (@davidjandrew)

Richard Rohr - Cosmic Christ & Revival Fr. Richard Rohr discusses with Jarrod his new book on the Cosmic Christ, weaponization of the Bible, and wisdom for those seeking a justice revival. Don’t miss our “Is Rohr Wrong?” discussion with Dr. Ben Myers and Dr. Byron Smith on our Patreon Page: [www.patreon.com/inverse](http://www.patreon.com/inverse)

Kelly Brown Douglas is an African-American Episcopal priest, womanist theologian, and the inaugural Dean of the Episcopal Divinity School at Union Theological Seminary. She is also the Canon Theologian at the Washington National Cathedral.

Dean Douglas is the author of several books, including Sexuality and the Black Church: A Womanist Perspective, Stand Your Ground: Black Bodies and the Justice of God, The Black Christ, and her most recent work Resurrection Hope: A Future Where Black Lives Matter. 

Follow Dr. Rev. Kelly Brown Douglas @DeanKBD

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Sam Gay is the Husband of Quonie (pronounced kwon-ē) and father of 3…(Sam 3 Samyah and Levi)He is originally from Bealsville Fl…a small town started by free slaves. He’s learning to live in authentic community and love more freely.

Robert Monson is a writer, seminarian, theologian, and musician originally from Chicago. He is involved in liberation work, communal care and is the co-host of Three Black Men as well as the host of Black Coffee and Theology. 

Follow Trey on Twitter @PastorTrey05

Follow Sam on Twitter @samg0727

Follow Robert on Twitter @robertjmonson

Follow Three Black Men Podcast on your favorite listening platform and on Twitter @3BlackMen

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Dr. Harris grew up in San Jose, California, attended a small Bible college in the Santa Cruz mountains, and graduated with a degree in church leadership. After serving in pastoral leadership (children’s ministry) for five years, she decided to further her education by pursuing a graduate degree in biblical studies. Two master’s degrees and one Ph.D. later, she now teaches classes on biblical interpretation, New Testament literature, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the ancient Near Eastern to Hellenistic contexts of biblical literature.

In addition to her work on early Jewish literature, Dr. Harris is currently working on a collaborative project designed to produce Bible curriculum (for children and families) informed by biblical studies and sociological perspectives. One of the goals is to address the normalizing of Whiteness and Eurocentrism that continue to proliferate in the majority of children’s Bible curriculum currently on the market.

Follow Dr. Harris on Twitter @RHarrisPHDmom

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Ash has hosted multiple shows including Take 40 Australia, 2Day FM Breakfast, Shazam Top20, and Ash London LIVE. From a 48-hour trip to Paris for a chat with Taylor Swift, to a weekend in London to see Harry Styles’ first-ever solo show, Ash will do whatever it takes to bring the best music experiences alive for listeners around Australia, and those streaming across the globe. 2019 saw a return to television for Ash, co-hosting MTV’s flagship show TRL, as well as joining the cast of Network Ten’s Have You Been Paying Attention?

With a keen interest in mindfulness, she is currently studying her post-grad in Psychology and hopes to integrate this into her media career. Despite her achievements across a career spanning 10 years, her greatest one to date is still playing mum to her rescue greyhound Honey. The light of her life! She is also an ambassador for Greyhound Rescue NSW.

Follow Ash on Instagram @ash_london

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

Follow Sarah on Twitter and Instagram @SarahBessey

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

There are 2 million podcasts in the world today, and you have put us in the top 1% of listened-to podcasts. Yep, in the world. Thank you.

And thanks to you, @InVersePodcast has grown from a popular podcast to a global community who together are decolonizing faith, disarming hope, and learning to live that liberating love found in Jesus of Nazareth. 

Yet Dr @druhart & I share this conviction: information ≠ transformation. Transformation requires community, embodiment, economic redistribution, and mutuality. One of the incredible things we’ve seen the Spirit do during the pandemic is knit together several incredible formation communities across the planet. 

That’s why we are excited to announce @easternmennoniteu (world-renowned for their Conflict Transformation programs) has invited our InVerse Collective to join them for their Eastern Mennonite Seminary’s School for Leadership Conference. The conference is on discipleship at the intersections of “Race, Place, and [Climate] Catastrophe: Becoming Grapevine and Fig Tree Planters In a Time of Crisis”. It will be a hybrid in-person and virtual conference. 

There will be a gathering in-person at Eastern Mennonite University for people able to get to the U.S. and also on the border of the Republic of Ireland and [the] north[ern] [of] Ireland (hat time to my dear friend @padraigotuama) for those able to get to Europe. 

As well as yet to be announced special guests, EMU has invited Dr @druhart, Carol Ng’ang’a, and myself to be keynotes. It will also include several other in-person and virtual workshops lead by our global InVerse community including Climate scientist and theologian Dr. Mick Pope, Kenyan liturgist Wanjiku Mwangi, Trawloolway Academic and Student Dean of NAIITS Down Under Naomi Wolfe, crowd favorite Robert Monson from Three Black Men Podcast, Mattaponi Tribe member and pastor Sarah Quint and, worship through gospel music by our very own Christopher Mazen and InVerse Director of Fun and Facilitator of joy Nya Abernathy (and Founder of the Dignity Effect).

Click here to learn more and register:

https://emu.edu/seminary/slt/

Brian joined Drew and Jarrod to talk about his new book- When Everything's On Fire, Deconstruction, the death penalty, and more.

Follow Brian on Twitter and Instagram @BrianZahnd

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

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Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Ben Lee’s forthcoming album “I’m Fun!” truly is. In this episode, he reflects on the Torah portion set for his bar mitzvah, his 30 years in the spotlight and the charts, and the danger of conspiracies for those interested in spirituality.

Follow Ben on Twitter and Instagram @benleemusic

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

An ordained minister, Gilliard has served in pastoral ministry in Atlanta, Chicago, and Oakland. He was executive pastor of New Hope Covenant Church in Oakland, California and also served in Oakland as the associate pastor of Convergence Covenant Church. He was also a campus minister at North Park University and the racial righteousness director for ECC’s ministry initiatives in the Pacific Southwest Conference.

Gilliard earned a bachelor’s degree in African American Studies from Georgia State University and a master’s degree in history from East Tennessee State University, with an emphasis on race, gender, and class in the United States. He also earned an MDiv from North Park Seminary, where he served as an adjunct professor teaching Christian ethics, theology, and reconciliation.

Dominique joined Dr. Drew and Jarrod to talk about his new book, Subversive Witness.

Follow Dominique on Instagram @dominiquedgilliard and Twitter @DDGilliard. 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

"Tripp is a podcaster, theologian, minister, and competitive home brewer. Currently, he is a Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Theology & Science at the University of Edinburgh. He received his Ph.D. in Philosophy, Religion, and Theology at Claremont Graduate University. For over 12 years Tripp has been doing the Homebrewed Christianity podcast (think on-demand internet radio) where he interviews different scholars about their work so you can get nerdy in traffic, on the treadmill, or doing the dishes. Last year it had over 3 million downloads. It also inspired a book series with Fortress Press called the Homebrewed Christianity Guides to… topics like God, Jesus, Spirit, Church History, etc. Tripp is a very committed and (some of his friends think overly ) engaged Lakers fan, takes Star Wars and Lord of the Rings very seriously, enjoys coaching his oldest son Elgin’s flag football and basketball team, and prides himself in giving rousing editions of Sandra Boynton tunes during bedtime reading. Tripp, partner since 18 Alecia, & three kids (11, 5, & 2) are all headed to Scotland for three years where they hope to develop a sweet accent and avoid eating haggis.  In the classroom, online, or in the pulpit, his passion is helping the church develop a zesty theology with traction in our world today."

Follow Tripp Fuller on Instagram and Twitter @trippfuller. 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Follow Tripp Fuller on Instagram and Twitter @trippfuller. 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

---

"I write for young girls of color, for girls who don't even exist yet, so that there is something there for them when they arrive. I can only change how they live, not how they think." – Ntozake Shange

Follow Khristi Adams on Instagram @khristiadams

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Kelly Denton-Borhaug, Ph.D. (she/hers)
Professor, Global Religions Department
Co-director, Peace and Justice Studies Minor
Executive Director, InFocus Centers of Investigation
Moravian University
https://moravian.academia.edu/KellyDentonBorhaug

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

A widely sought lecturer and media spokesperson, Dr. Hendricks’ appearances include CNN, MSNBC, CBS, Fox News, Fox Business News, the Discovery Channel, PBS, BBC, NHK Japan Television, and the Bloomberg Network. He has provided running event commentary for National Public Radio, MSNBC, and the al-Jazeera and Aspire international television networks. Dr. Hendricks has served in the Religion and Foreign Policy Working Group at the U. S. Department of State under Secretaries of State Hillary Clinton and John Kerry; was a member of the Faith Advisory Council of the Democratic National Committee, for whom he delivered the closing benediction at the 2008 Democratic Convention; served on the National Religious Leaders Advisory Committee of the 2008 Democratic Presidential campaign. He is a Distinguished Senior Fellow at The Democracy Collaborative in Washington, DC; has been an Affiliated Scholar at the Center for American Progress; was a Senior Fellow at The Opportunity Agenda social justice communications think tank; is on the Advisory Board of the Institute of Christian Socialism; and is a member of the Board of Directors of the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). Dr. Hendricks has been a frequent contributor to the Huffington Post and Salon.com, a former editorial advisor to the award-winning Tikkun magazine, and a contributing editor to The Encyclopedia of Politics and Religion. The Dictionary of Biblical Interpretation has called his work “the boldest post-colonial writing ever seen in Western biblical studies.” " -Columbia University

Follow Dr. Obery Hendricks on Twitter @oberyhendricks.

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Follow Rev. Wil Gafney on Twitter @WilGafney and find her at www.wilgafney.com

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Mako Nagasawa grew up in Cerritos, CA, and went north to Stanford, where he studied Industrial Engineering and Public Policy, with a focus on education. He worked at Intel Corp for 6 years while serving a Spanish-speaking ministry to Mexican immigrants in East Palo Alto, CA. He married Ming in May 1999 and moved to Boston, MA. He then worked for two startup companies trying to bring technology and jobs to inner-city communities. 

Mako earned a Master’s in Theological Studies from Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Seminary in May 2019. 

Since 2000, Mako, Ming, and their two children John and Zoe have lived among friends in a Christian intentional community house in a Black and Brown neighborhood in Dorchester. Mako has done campus ministry since 2001 and founded The Anástasis Center in 2014 (then called New Humanity Institute). 

Follow Mako on Instagram @makonagasawa

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse Podcast is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Follow Melissa on Twitter

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Danté is a writer and speaker whose voice has been featured on CNN, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, Sojourners, The Witness: A Black Christian Collective, Comment Magazine, and more. As an up-and-coming voice, he writes and speaks into the areas of race, religion, and politics.

He received his B.A. in Sociology from Clemson University. He is currently studying at the Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, Ga. 

Follow Danté Stewart on Twitter https://twitter.com/stewartdantec?lang=en and Instagram hhttps://www.instagram.com/stewartdantec/ @stewartdantec. Learn more about his work at https://www.dantecstewart.com/about

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

"As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr. Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love, and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes, we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as part of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love, and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the church's witness has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to witness Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).)

This first conversation discusses the Introduction of Who Will Be a Witness with activist, author, and speaker Shane Claiborne. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane’s books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, Common Prayer, Follow Me to Freedom, Jesus, Bombs and Ice Cream, Becoming the Answer to Our Prayers, Executing Grace, his classic The Irresistible Revolution, and his newest book, Beating Guns. He has been featured in a number of films, including "Another World Is Possible" and "Ordinary Radicals." His books have been translated into more than a dozen languages. Shane speaks over one hundred times a year, nationally and internationally. His work has appeared in Esquire, SPIN, Christianity Today, TIME, and The Wall Street Journal, and he has been on everything from Fox News and Al Jazeera to CNN and NPR. He’s given academic lectures at Harvard, Princeton, Liberty, Duke, and Notre Dame. Shane regularly speaks at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe.

Follow Shane on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/ShaneClaiborne).

Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

Dr. Jennings has authored more than 40 scholarly essays and nearly two-dozen reviews, as well as essays on academic administration and blog posts for Religion Dispatches. Dr. Jennings is an ordained Baptist minister and has served as interim pastor for several North Carolina churches. He is in high demand as a speaker and is widely recognized as a major figure in theological education across North America. Dr. Jennings’ book **The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race** (Yale 2010) won the American Academy of Religion Award of Excellence in the Study of Religion in the Constructive-Reflective category the year after it appeared and, in 2015, the Grawemeyer Award in Religion, the largest prize for a theological work in North America. Englewood Review of Books called the work a “theological masterpiece.” His commentary on the** Book of Acts, titled Acts: A Commentary, The Revolution of the Intimate** (for the Belief Series, Westminster/John Knox) received the Reference Book of the Year Award from The Academy of Parish Clergy in 2018. **** Dr. Jennings has also recently published a book that examines the problems of theological education within western education, entitled** After Whiteness: An Education in Belonging** (Eerdmans, 2020). Dr. Jennings is now working on a major monograph provisionally entitled **Unfolding the World: Recasting a Christian Doctrine of Creation **as well as finishing a book of poetry entitled **The Time of Possession**. A Calvin College graduate, Jennings received his M.Div. from Fuller Theological Seminary and his Ph.D. in religion and ethics from Duke. This is part one of a two-part conversation recorded in community with friends from all over the world.

Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna.

Brought to you by Jarrod McKenna & Drew Hart of Inverse Podcast

Doctor Willie Jennings is a pastor, theologian, speaker, and world-renowned author, and the Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale Divinity School. Writing in the areas of liberation theologies, cultural identities, and anthropology, Dr Jennings has authored more than 40 scholarly essays and nearly two-dozen reviews, as well as essays on academic administration and blog posts for Religion Dispatches. Dr. Jennings is an ordained Baptist minister and has served as interim pastor for several North Carolina churches. He is in high demand as a speaker and is widely recognized as a major figure in theological education across North America. Dr Jennings’ book **The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race** (Yale 2010) won the American Academy of Religion Award of Excellence in the Study of Religion in the Constructive-Reflective category the year after it appeared and, in 2015, the Grawemeyer Award in Religion, the largest prize for a theological work in North America. Englewood Review of Books called the work a “theological masterpiece.” His commentary on the** Book of Acts, titled Acts: A Commentary, The Revolution of the Intimate** (for the Belief Series, Westminster/John Knox) received the Reference Book of the Year Award from The Academy of Parish Clergy in 2018. **** Dr. Jennings has also recently published a book that examines the problems of theological education within western education, entitled** After Whiteness: An Education in Belonging** (Eerdmans, 2020). Dr. Jennings is now working on a major monograph provisionally entitled **Unfolding the World: Recasting a Christian Doctrine of Creation **as well as finishing a book of poetry entitled **The Time of Possession**. A Calvin College graduate, Jennings received his M.Div. from Fuller Theological Seminary and his Ph.D. in religion and ethics from Duke.

This is part one of a two-part conversation recorded in community with friends from all over the world.

Part two will be released next week.

Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna.

J. Denny Weaver is professor emeritus of Religion of Bluffton (Ohio) University where he taught in the Religion Department for thirty-one years. He has written more than a dozen books as well as many book chapters and articles in Anabaptist and systematic theology, with a particular interest on issues of violence and social justice in atonement and Christological imagery.

Alongside his well-known books The Nonviolent Atonement and The Nonviolent God, his recent publications include God without Violence, second edition (Cascade Books, 2020) which has a new chapter on nonviolent activism, and additions on Black theology and the Doctrine of Discovery; and Nonviolent Word, co-authored with Gerald J. Mast (Pickwick Publications, 2020) which has chapters on how and why white churches should listen to Black churches, and on nonviolent activism. He is a member of Madison (Wisconsin) Mennonite
Church.

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse 

Inverse is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

He is currently working on a manuscript with Cascade Publishers entitled "God's Apocalyptic Insurrection: Rethinking Salvation After 2020." He has also published a range of other essays in academic journals and multi-author books.

Along with teaching, Richard Crane is also currently a J. D. Candidate at Seton Hall University School of Law, anticipating graduation in 2023. This summer, he is doing a legal internship for Legal Aid of Milwaukee, where he is contributing to the legal representation of persons with low incomes facing eviction. Richard is married to Mary Tomski Crane and has two children (Rebecca and Richard Joseph) and 2 grandchildren (Colton and Ian).

He is not only a colleague and friend but also a former professor of Drew Hart!

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse  Inverse is produced by Jen Kinney @iamjenkinney

With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Follow Dr Chris Green on Twitter https://twitter.com/cewgreen and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cewgreen/ @cewgreen. Learn more about his work at https://www.cewgreen.com/ 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.

Follow Dr Chris Green on Twitter https://twitter.com/cewgreen and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cewgreen/ @cewgreen. Learn more about his work at https://www.cewgreen.com/ 

Follow Drew Hart on Instagram and Twitter @druhart.

Follow Jarrod McKenna on Instagram and Twitter @jarrodmckenna.

Discover our global community on Twitter and Instagram @inversepodcast. Become a Patron of Inverse at https://www.patreon.com/InVerse With thanks to David Andrew (@davidjandrew) for the ongoing use of his music in this podcast.