Chad and Todd have helped thousands of leaders grow their impact through the work of Pathwise Leadership. Find more information at www.PathwiseLeadership.com.
To contact host Johnny G for speaking engagements or coaching services, email him at RefractivePodcast@gmail.com.

To contact host Johnny G for spiritual coaching or speaking engagements, email him at Re***************@***il.com
For similarly-themed episodes, try Heal Yourself: How to Design a Joyful Life, or Find Your Genius.

Find Erin’s book “I See You! A Leader’s Guide to Energizing Your Team through Radical Empathy” at your favorite bookstore or online. Learn more about how she helps others to live joyful, powerful lives at www.itsErinDiehl.com

To contact host Johnny G for spiritual coaching or for speaking engagements, email him at re***************@***il.com or visit www.refractivecoaching.com

Find the episode transcript below:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G. Today, my guest is Erin Diehl. She is a founder and CEO, author and improv expert, and keynote speaker. Through a series of unrelated dares. Believe it or not, Erin created improve it, a professional development company rooted in improv comedy. It pushes leaders and teams to laugh, learn, play, and grow. She’s a proud host of the Improve it podcast, which is a top 1% global podcast. It helps develop leaders and teams through play, improv, and experiential learning. Her book, an Amazon bestseller and top new release, is titled I see you, a leader’s guide to energizing your team through radical empathy. She’s here today to talk with me about the link between loving myself and living in a loving world. And I’m really happy to have you on here. Erin, thank you for your time.

[00:01:37] Speaker B: I am so excited to be here with you. I already feel a lot of alignment with you, so I am very excited for this conversation, wherever it may go. And I’m here to be of service to your audience. I love your vibes, Johnny. You got great vibes.

[00:01:53] Speaker A: Thank you so much. I don’t know if you could tell me. I don’t know if you could possibly offer a better, a better pat on the back than that. That really is. That means a lot to me.

[00:02:03] Speaker B: Good. Well, you deserve it. You deserve it. Take it in.

[00:02:05] Speaker A: So I wonder, you know, first of all, when I was doing some research on you and where we have alignment, there’s plenty of alignment between the two of us. But when I was doing that research and this idea of loving myself to find access to a more loving world, it just, like, all the lights went on inside of me, I was like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. This is. This is it. This is it. And I wonder, like, what are your thoughts on this general topic? I mean, has this been something that you’ve already, that you’ve already contemplated over your own personal journey? Is this something that you found to be true for yourself?

[00:02:49] Speaker B: I mean, ding, ding, ding. All my lights are going on as you’re talking about this. Yeah, I.

So just starting from childhood, let’s go way back.

[00:03:00] Speaker A: Let’s do it, let’s do it.

[00:03:01] Speaker C: Let’s go.

[00:03:01] Speaker B: Go way, way back.

I moved a lot as a kid, and I was always that new kid trying to fit in, and it would always take a couple years. I moved several times, and then I went to college and I didn’t know a single person. So I’ve always had to readapt. And I think in that time period, I underlyingly did not know, but subconsciously created a belief system that I am not worthy.

[00:03:29] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:03:30] Speaker B: And I lived that.

I always had confidence in my. My higher self would come through higher than my ego, but that was still inside of me. Yeah, I’m not worthy. That still laid dormant, and it took a massive healing journey that I went through from about 2017 to 2022. Honestly.

[00:03:56] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:03:57] Speaker B: To get rid of that belief. And now I truly believe that I am worthy. And because I believe it, other people believe it, and because other people believe it, I’m able to impact their lives.

[00:04:16] Speaker C: That is.

[00:04:17] Speaker A: Listen, I’m just. I mean, I’m excited as you’re talking, because I had almost. Well, I had a very parallel experience to you. I started to do a lot of inner work as a result of twelve step programs. And this really kicked off for me in 2016, and it went until about 2021. So about the same length of time as you, really similar periods. And I have to tell you, this was for my entire adulthood. I knew that I had severe self esteem and self love problems. I went to therapist multiple times across my adult, and when he says, why are you here? My answer was, I don’t love myself, and I fear that I’m not going to be able to enter any kind of loving relationship because of that. And I need help. That was always clear to me. And the therapy was wonderful, nurturing. It was like a warm bath. I loved it, and it didn’t. It didn’t. It didn’t solve the issue, you know, not that it might not have, could have, maybe if I would have kept going, but it was really doing the inner work on a spiritual level to scrape out all of the, like, muck.

[00:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:05:55] Speaker A: Let it scab over and heal and then see what’s left.

[00:06:00] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I love that. Listen, I’m such a proponent of what you just said. I have a therapist, because I keep a therapist just for, you know, it’s like, I don’t want the car battery to die. I want to keep charging it.

[00:06:14] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:06:14] Speaker B: And I will say the same thing. There’s not a single person, book, journal entry, meditation, or human being that I can point to that healed me. It’s a combination of all of that, but more importantly, myself doing the work, and, oh, my God, Johnny, it has been life changing in so many ways.

[00:06:38] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:06:39] Speaker B: So grateful for it. Like, I. It sucked. Like, the process sucked, and the healing and the experiencing and all of it was horrible. But I also know that none of that would have led me to. To today, so I’m grateful.

[00:06:57] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:06:58] Speaker A: I don’t know if this was the case with you, but for me, it was so severe that I would walk in front of a mirror, like. Just, like, getting ready in the morning, just passing in front of the mirror, and I would stop and just. Just glance. And the words that I would hear in my head. And I don’t mean this figuratively. I mean, literally, the track that would play for me was, lower your eyes. Who do you think you are looking at? Like, it was just. It was such violent self disgust.

[00:07:32] Speaker B: Yes.

[00:07:33] Speaker A: You know, and the problem was that I was a people pleaser. I wanted. I wanted to be loved. And so I, like, I know that being around people who have a heavy spirit is draining. So outside, I’m trying so hard to.

[00:07:52] Speaker B: Be.

[00:07:54] Speaker A: Pleasant and joyful, but inside, it’s.

[00:08:00] Speaker C: Like, I hate myself.

[00:08:02] Speaker B: Oh, my God.

[00:08:04] Speaker A: Was that your experience?

[00:08:05] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Listen. Yes. We are so similar.

So I’ve been a performer my whole life. Since I was three years old, I was in dance or on stage in a play. Right.

I took that role in my personal life, too. I’m gonna entertain you. I’m gonna show up. I’m gonna be the person that walks in and the life of the party. And it was exhausting. It was physically and mentally exhausting.

[00:08:32] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:08:33] Speaker B: So the period of time from, basically, I started healing in 2017, I went through a massive infertility journey with my husband. We really could not get pregnant, which I now know is I had to learn to mother myself before I could learn to mother somebody else. But in 2020, that’s really when just poop, hit the wall. And I called that period of time my three p’s. And I’ll tell you what those three p’s were.

[00:09:01] Speaker A: All right, everybody get a pen. Get a pen.

We’re gonna do this old school style.

[00:09:06] Speaker B: Okay? So the first one was pivoting. Cause I’m sure, like the rest of the world, we were all improvising, which is what I do in my business, but my business was completely in person. We didn’t have a leg to stand.

[00:09:17] Speaker C: On for two years. Oh, wow.

[00:09:18] Speaker B: Not even this show started. My show started in April of 2020. Okay. So we had nothing virtually. So I have, you know, people’s insurance and bills and livelihoods on top of my chest. And on top of that, I am a new mom. I had a miracle baby boy after years of trying. So that led to my second p, which was people pleasing. I was giving everything to this child.

My mom at the time had had a stroke and almost died. So I was giving to my family, and she was in the hospital during COVID I couldn’t even go see her.

[00:09:51] Speaker C: Right.

[00:09:52] Speaker B: I’m a constant people pleaser who wanted to give to my team, to my clients, to my friends. So I was just giving in every area to everyone except myself.

[00:10:04] Speaker C: Right.

[00:10:05] Speaker B: Which led to the third p, which was pain.

[00:10:08] Speaker C: Right.

[00:10:09] Speaker B: I’m not talking about, like, ouch, I stumped my toe talk, like, tight pain. I’m talking about chronic pain that was in my back and shoulders, that would make me cry myself to sleep at night, that was undiagnosable by doctors, would withstand, like, chiropractic cracks. Like, it was chronic pain that lasted about two years. And it wasn’t until I was guided to read this book called when the body says no by this man, Gabor mate. And I realized that my body was holding on to all of these unprocessed emotions. The anger that I had from infertility treatments and the fact that I was the one having to go through all of this. The anger I had from feeling like I was left alone when my husband went back to work. And I was, you know, I was, who am I now? Who am I, this human being? The anger that I have from the pandemic, the fear that I had, this underlying root issue of I’m not worthy of people pleasing. Just. I was so mad. And so I started to. If you’ve ever seen the show on Netflix, Marie Kondo.

[00:11:23] Speaker C: Oh, yes.

[00:11:24] Speaker B: Yes. I took Marie Kondo in my brain. I had to go in, like, several different rooms inside of my brain, take out what no longer served me. Thank you.

[00:11:35] Speaker A: And then realize, does not spark joy.

[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah. This does not spark joy. And once I did that, I became this whole new person.

[00:11:43] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:11:43] Speaker B: I literally became this whole new person. I was, like, a homecoming to myself.

[00:11:48] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:11:50] Speaker B: And that kind of leads me to the journey that I’m on now as a new author and how I was even guided to read the book, because I really leaned into my spiritual practice during this time. Um, just gonna call it. I have very, very amazing spirit guides and angels.

[00:12:10] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:12:11] Speaker B: Around me. And I can share that story with you and your audience. Yeah, I would love to. If you’re okay.

[00:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to hear it.

[00:12:21] Speaker B: Okay. Because this is wild. Like, this is just.

I haven’t told a version of this ever before, so I’m gonna share that with you.

[00:12:31] Speaker A: Okay. So we have an exclusive.

[00:12:32] Speaker B: You have an exclusive.

So, as I was finishing this healing journey, I was just on my phone, and I don’t really check Facebook, but I got a Facebook message from a loved one that it was on my husband’s side of the family, so I didn’t really know who they were, but I knew they were a past family member. So I told my family member, I said, you know, I’m gonna call her Susan.

Susan Facebook messaged me. How do I know her again? And my family member looks at me and says, that’s not possible.

Susan is no longer with us. She passed away two years ago. And I was like, okay, well, she clearly messaged me. It says here, hey, are you there? Are you there?

So I felt guided to meditate in that moment. And so that evening, I went upstairs, and I did a guided meditation to channel spirit guides. And through that, Susan came through very clearly.

[00:13:30] Speaker A: Okay.

[00:13:31] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. It worked. It worked.

And she brings in a person in my life who I’ve never met, but is very. I’m trying to keep my family names. Yes, of course, you know, confidential. But it was a family member who took their own life.

[00:13:49] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:13:49] Speaker B: Who was very close in proximity to who I am on my. My husband’s side.

And when I was going through this healing journey, I mean, I was very low. There were some very low moments.

My husband found me one day on the bathroom floor in a ball, naked, screaming, I’m broken. I’m broken. And literally, I couldn’t move. And it was like. That was like, the bottom. Bottom. But this loved one, Susan brought in another loved one. We’ll call her Sally. Okay. And Sally said to me, I was you.

I am you. I gave to everyone in my life except myself, which is why I took my own life.

And I want you to write this book and write it now.

And I will write through you.

[00:14:45] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:14:47] Speaker B: And so I truly was, like, shook, but also very in alignment with the assignment. And when I tell you that this book was something that flowed out of me, I truly mean that it was a beautiful experience. I would get up early before my house woke up. I would light a candle, get a coffee, sit at my desk, and just write. And I felt Sally with me the entire time.

[00:15:18] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:15:19] Speaker B: I also recently went to a medium, which I have never. I’ve been to. I have a clairvoyant coach, but I never seen a medium. And so I also found out through that conversation that I also had another friend of mine who took his life.

Help me write the book.

[00:15:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

[00:15:41] Speaker B: And it was just such a beautiful experience. And I’m sharing this with you, and I literally have full body chills because I would never have listened to my inner guidance system or my inner voice or any of that without this healing process. And so what it really was was this, I think, guided path of all these, you know, things I had to go through in order to become this version of me, to be able to give opportunities for people in the same position, give them tangible things that they can take home and do to help them love themselves more so that they don’t get in the place that I was at or my ancestor or my past friend was at. Because when we let our egos run wild, we just get ourselves into the spaces that really we don’t belong. And where we belong is like listening here and loving what we’ve been given because we only have this body once.

[00:16:46] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:16:47] Speaker B: So it was a really beautiful exchange, and I’m.

I was out of alignment after I wrote it. I wrote it in alignment. I got out of alignment again, and then I. It was like the universe just kept, like, knocking me, literally on the head, like I had a concussion, for real, for four months. That was like, no, you need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And I feel the most aligned I’ve ever felt in my life because of that journey.

[00:17:18] Speaker A: Wow, that’s an amazing story. And, you know, listen, there might be listeners who have experienced what you experienced and more. And there might be listeners who are like, what this talk? And I don’t like. That’s, like, literally insanity. And here’s what I want to say. Here’s what I want to say.

[00:17:39] Speaker C: Right.

[00:17:39] Speaker A: If you’re a listener who. Who has not experienced that type of, let’s say, that type of element in your own spiritual journey, here’s the key. The universe is a much more loving place than I ever gave it credit for. There is help around me all the time. Sometimes it’s in the form of a commercial I hear on television and a message that just makes me think of something. Sometimes it’s in a random phone call I receive from someone I didn’t expect to get a call from. Sometimes it’s a billboard, and sometimes it might be through being visited by the spirit of someone I once knew. Like, it doesn’t matter. The end result is. What matters is that, Aaron, you received this encouragement to embrace self love, and whatever the source of that nudge that you got, it doesn’t matter, because it seems to me like the end result to you is a very real impactful experience.

[00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And it’s funny, I actually say I’m now living what I like to call the three P’s remix. You know, I changed it up a little bit.

[00:19:01] Speaker C: All right.

[00:19:02] Speaker A: Did we take out people pleaser? Like, did that one last.

[00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah, people pleaser.

[00:19:05] Speaker A: Okay, good. We got that one out.

[00:19:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So now it’s, I live a life filled with purpose, which is knowing what I’m here to do, staying in alignment with that, having conversations like this, I know my priorities. They’re very much in check. And I now live a life of peace, which.

Something. I’m 40, almost 41. I literally, I would say, lived my life the first 39 years.

And, you know, who knows what it was like for me as a baby. But as I could remember, I lived it in a very different state, in a fight or flight nervous system. In a anxious nervous system.

And I have really reclaimed that. And I hope, for the next 40 years of my life, I stay in this spot.

[00:19:53] Speaker C: Yes. Good.

[00:19:55] Speaker A: So to move to kind of the next part of our conversation, um, and wrap this up. Uh, wrap kind of this section up. I mean, so we’ve moved from a place of painful self doubt, ego based snatching and grabbing and.

[00:20:14] Speaker C: And.

[00:20:14] Speaker A: And, you know, scrounging for scraps to this place of peaceful self love and acceptance. Okay.

In most situations. Right. That’s not my reality 100% of the time.

[00:20:28] Speaker B: So, yes, I’m still human. I’m still going to feel, you know, angst and angst.

[00:20:32] Speaker A: I’m fat in these jeans.

[00:20:34] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, yeah.

[00:20:35] Speaker A: I’ve just embarrassed myself in front of him. He’s, like, so annoyed by me, blah, blah, blah.

[00:20:40] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. I’m still human. Totally. But way different than I was as a human before.

[00:20:47] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:20:48] Speaker A: So, moving on to the second part, then. How do you see that journey as having made the world a more loving place for you?

[00:21:02] Speaker B: I think love attracts love, and so I loved before we. Here’s the word love again. I love before you. And I hit record today. You said, let me be of service, and you just literally inhaled and exhaled, and really, I felt that intention.

I’m a keynote speaker. Right. I speak in front of people all the time.

I’ll never forget when I spoke two years ago in front of an audience. I was like, I’m here to show them who’s here. And I’m gonna get my warm up, pump up jams on backstage, and they’re not gonna believe who’s gonna come out and greet them. Oh, my God. That keynote speaker flopped on her face and failed. But when I. Like, last night, I did a talk for Amazon. Actually, I was in DC yesterday, and I did a talk for Amazon employees, and I literally said backstage, all I want to do is be a vessel of love. I want you to spread love through me so I can share it with this audience. And that’s all I want, is. Is you to channel love through me so I can spread that to others.

[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:22:16] Speaker B: And it was a very intimate setting, and I just feel like everyone in that room felt bad at the end. And I always say at the end of every talk I do, if today brought you joy, if it made you smile, if it made you feel a certain type of way, my only ask is that you spread that to somebody else today, tomorrow, this week, because the world needs so much more of it. And so love attracts love, and you. You receive the energy that you put out. So I have to fill my cup with love. I have to fill myself with love in order to be a good parent, in order to be a good leader, in order to talk to human beings and help them find love, I have to feel it myself. And it is.

I find that when you lead your life from that place, you receive so much more than when you’re resisting and when you’re pushing and pulling and things feel very arduous. So it almost is this beautiful flow state that I’ve been able to get myself in, and that helps other people do the same, and it attracts that vibration to me. And so for me, I’m, like, living a life filled with love because I’m filling my cup first. Right.

[00:23:35] Speaker A: That’s the thing.

[00:23:36] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:23:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And that’s. That’s literally what my book is about. Like, that right there, that is the entire, like, if you were to boil it down into a paragraph, that is it. And you don’t. You can’t create loving environments if you don’t love yourself first.

[00:23:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:53] Speaker A: Listen, we hear all the time, we hear that the. That the common, like, societal opinion is that we’ve never been in a darker place. We’ve never, like, you know, been so divided and, like, it’s so, you know, we’re in some real trouble right now. You hear stuff like that all the time, and I.

Listen, I’m no longer in the arguing business, so I’m not here to contradict anybody’s perspective on that.

But that’s not how I experience the world, you know? And, I mean, listen, let’s go back to, like, medieval Europe and, like, let’s talk about which era I’d rather live in. Like, just, you know, technology aside. Like, I’m not trying to, you know. Anyway, whatever.

Listen, what I’m saying, though, is that I walk down the street.

I live in the middle of a densely populated urban area with statistics of high crime.

I live in the middle of Washington, DC.

[00:24:58] Speaker C: Oh, my God.

[00:24:58] Speaker B: I was just there.

[00:24:59] Speaker A: Yet I know. I heard you say that.

[00:25:01] Speaker B: I’m here.

[00:25:02] Speaker A: How dare you? So.

And no one has ever looked at me in a menacing way.

No one has. I’ve not been, like. I just have to say that I don’t ever feel threatened.

I don’t feel endangered.

Sometimes I get a little intuitive nudge that says, go this way.

[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:25:31] Speaker A: And I go that way.

[00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:25:34] Speaker A: But, like, the fact is, like, I don’t live in a world.

[00:25:38] Speaker C: Well.

[00:25:38] Speaker A: I don’t watch the news.

[00:25:40] Speaker B: Yes.

[00:25:41] Speaker A: Okay. I stopped that. I don’t engage in politics other than basic research and voting.

[00:25:48] Speaker B: Yep. Yep.

[00:25:49] Speaker A: And the fact is, like, I don’t live in a world where people fight.

[00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:25:55] Speaker A: Like, that’s not my reality anymore.

I believe that others believe it, and I believe that others are experiencing this darkness and this heaviness, and it’s real.

And I’m the one who held myself in the locked cell of that. And the minute that I just stopped holding the door shut, I walked into a different world by loving myself, by turning with in and giving space and respect and honor to my inner wisdom, by seeing my inner spark of the creator and recognizing it as magnificent.

All of the sudden, all the threats of the world have faded.

[00:26:45] Speaker B: So good. So good. I love that. And I hear you on that because you could live this life filled with darkness. Okay, listen, I have a communications degree. Do I really remember anything from it? No, but I remember. I remember one thing. This is, I had a paper on this, and it was called the cultivation theory by George Gerbner, okay? And it was basically, you cultivate your life by the things that you intake. So it’s like you watch the news and you’re filled with doom and gloom.

[00:27:17] Speaker A: And look, we’re bringing academia to refractive listeners, okay? So, yes, okay.

[00:27:21] Speaker B: I know, I know, I know.

[00:27:22] Speaker C: I love it.

[00:27:23] Speaker B: I love it. Truly. Like, that stuck with me. I mean, 21 years out of college and I remember that. And anytime, like, for example, 2020, when we were all stuck in our homes and we were glued to our phones and our screens because we didn’t know what else to do.

[00:27:38] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:27:38] Speaker B: My psyche could never have felt lower. Like, my inner peace was out the window shot. Like, I just. I had nothing but fear and doom and gloom in my. In my system. And it’s funny because yesterday was on the way to this event, and I was in an Uber, and he had the news, like, loud and proud in the Uber. And I said, sir, I’m paying for. I didn’t say I’m paying for this, but I’m like, this is my ride. And I was like, can you just. Do you mind turning down the volume or turning the channel? Because I just cannot fill my. My vibe with that because all it does is just permeate fear, cause controversy, it’s divisive. And I don’t want to live in that space.

[00:28:20] Speaker C: No.

[00:28:21] Speaker B: Because I lived in it enough. And I’m. I am of the same mindset of you. It’s. It’s a different world. I lived in Chicago for 15 years. I now live in Charleston, South Carolina. And it was funny, a guy came over to help us fix something in our house the other day, and I was like, yeah, I’m about to get on a plane to go to Chicago. He goes, oh, be safe. And I was like, that’s because he’s never been. And he watches the news.

[00:28:47] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:28:47] Speaker B: And I lived there for 15 years.

[00:28:49] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:28:50] Speaker B: And I was. I mean, yes, things happen. It’s a large city like DC, but, like, it is a safe space. I was surrounded by people who loved me and supported me, and I loved living there for. It’s because we just fear what they. We are intaking what other humans believe, and we’re getting a little opinionated opinions behind the facts that they’re giving us, and it causes such fear and toxicity, and I’m so over it. So I’m with you.

[00:29:21] Speaker A: No, are you, uh, listen, I talk about her on my podcast all the time. Um, are you familiar with Byron Katie?

[00:29:27] Speaker B: No, wait, no, I know Katie. Byron, but I don’t know Byron Katie.

[00:29:33] Speaker A: So, Byron Katie, she is a. She’s a. I’ll just say she’s a spiritual writer. I mean, that’s not really what she is, but she has books on that you would categorize as spirituality. And her whole, I guess her whole.

The whole essence of her philosophy is learning to love, falling in love with reality, and as one of the ways that she gets there she asked this question of who would you be without your story?

[00:30:09] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I love, I just googled as you were talking and I’m like, I want to know.

[00:30:14] Speaker A: She’s amazing, Erin. She cracked me open in my spiritual journey and like, she was like, miracle grow for my spiritual development through her books or what did her books?

[00:30:26] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:30:27] Speaker A: I also went to a retreat of hers years later. Like, actually just last year I went to a retreat of hers.

But her books, like, I first learned about her through the Oprah super soul conversations and where Oprah interviews different spiritual thinkers. And when I heard her, I was like, oh, I get, yeah, I resonate with this. I’ve never heard this before, but I’m here for it. So I went and read her books and whatnot, and I’m like, oh, yeah, no, no, no. This is what, this is what, this is what I want. Like, this is what feels right for me.

[00:31:03] Speaker B: I need, I needed a new, like, page turner that’s happening. You also said Oprah. And behind my, in my little podcast studio, which is a closet that I converted into a, I have a vision board directly behind me, and Oprah’s like, all over it. So you just said, like, all the things just went dang. And I am 1000% going to buy her books. Amazing.

[00:31:26] Speaker A: Listen, listen to the Oprah super soul conversation podcast episode. You’ll know. You’ll know in 30 minutes whether, like, it’s the right fit for you.

That’s my advice. But. So Byron, Katie, one of the exercises she had us do at her retreat, we were in LA and we went to Santa Monica and we were dropped off on the beach and we were given some really specific instructions. No money, no watches, nothing of value, no food, no beverage.

And you are to wander around the streets, the sidewalks, the beach, and you are to find individuals there.

Walk up to them and join them.

You’re allowed to say only four words. May I join you?

If someone says no, you follow the simple instructions and you keep moving. But if someone says, who cares? I don’t know. They don’t answer, whatever. Then you just sit and you stay open. You don’t speak.

And we were like, wait, what? Like, this is crazy. She was like, find people that you assume don’t have homes. Find people that you assume are high. Find people that you know anyone. Like, anyone. Find people on their lunch break, whatever, and just sit and just take the time to re meet the human race without your story.

[00:33:03] Speaker B: Wow.

[00:33:05] Speaker A: And what I’m telling you, Aaron, is that when I sat there without people thought I was a lunatic because I wasn’t. I would say, may I join you? I would sit. They would start to talk to me. And we don’t answer. We don’t communicate. All we do is look at them with love.

Not like, intense staring. We just. We’re present, but not communicating.

[00:33:26] Speaker B: That is fascinating.

[00:33:28] Speaker A: And let me tell you what happened.

People that we. And we’re doing this individually, we’re not as a group, like, we’re not like five people walking up like it’s one on one, right? People who you would assume don’t have a home offered us food.

People who.

People opened up and cried to us about pain they’re feeling over the relationship with their children.

It’s just these strangers that you think it’s unacceptable to go up and invade someone’s space like that. But no, there was no invasion. We asked permission, and then we just sat in love. And what we learned is that nobody was accosted, no one was disrespected. Some people were said, no, I want to be alone, and that’s fine, but, like, not a single one of. There were. I don’t know, there were, like 200 people who we went out and did this, and no one had negative experiences. We were brought to tears by the raw love shown to us by strangers from every walk of life.

[00:34:36] Speaker B: That is beautiful. Oh, my God. What an activity. How long did this last?

[00:34:42] Speaker A: 4 hours.

[00:34:44] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And then you just got picked up or. How did you get home?

[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah, there were buses. Like, there were buses waiting for us, like, at a certain place. And, you know, the thing is that. The thing is, what we learned is that, you know, we were, most of us, people who can afford to fly across the country for a nine day retreat in Los Angeles. Right?

[00:35:06] Speaker C: Like.

[00:35:06] Speaker A: Like, this is, like, very uncomfortable. And we all have lots of hard baked stories about who the people are that are just sitting around on the sidewalk in the middle of the day. And as we sat down without, despite our fear, despite our discomfort, but only with an open heartedness, those people loved us.

[00:35:33] Speaker B: I mean, yeah. You’re not bringing anything? No baggage?

[00:35:37] Speaker A: No, no.

But it required something of me. It required me to suspend my fearful, aggressive, pain filled, history based stories about others on. And by just leaning into love, those people gave me love, and I will never forget it. This one woman, like, she. I think she might have been homeless.

She, like, took my hand and walked down the beach with me. And just. It just. I just could not believe the random kindness and beauty of these people because people can sense innocence.

[00:36:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

What if the entire world did that activity, like, what a different place? Yes, we would be.

[00:36:35] Speaker C: Yes. Yes.

[00:36:37] Speaker B: Love that.

So, okay, this is similar, but not. But when I think about what you’re saying, it’s, like, real and raw and vulnerable. Vulnerable.

And so I use improv comedy to teach. Right. Everything I do is rooted in that. And I really believe that if the entire world could take an improv class, the world would be a better place, because there’s so many characteristics that make up a great improviser, that make up a great human. You have to listen with compassion. You have to think quickly on your feet. But it’s because you’re listening to the thing that the person before you just said. You have to have equal give and take. You have to be in the moment and be so present that you’re not planning ahead or thinking ahead. And that is like an improv based activity that she had you do because you’re improvising the whole time. And it’s beautiful. It’s magical, because what you’re witnessing is the real raw reaction of another human being to. To nothing but your soul, basically.

[00:37:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:43] Speaker B: So cool. I love that.

[00:37:46] Speaker A: I wonder, how did you arrive at the title of I see you for your book? Because, like, I really. I think that’s a really loving sentiment.

[00:37:57] Speaker B: You do? Okay. Thank you. Because let me tell you, Johnny, my speaking coach, I love her so much. But she was like, that doesn’t tell me what the book is about. And I’m like, no, no, no, it does. Like, you don’t know what the book. What I’m gonna say in this. And then I went to my publisher, and they tried to change the title, too, and I fought so hard for this title.

There are a lot of books out there called I see you, but they’re thrillers. And so we added an exclamation mark at the end that sort of changed it up. And.

[00:38:33] Speaker A: Yeah, so it’s not so much like, I see you. I see you.

[00:38:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I see you. And it was. And then the subtitle had to really drive it home. So it’s a leader’s guide to energizing your team through radical empathy. But I just like, for me, what I use improv comedy for is really the vessel to make people feel like they belong. And that’s underneath it all. It is like this practice of belonging, of feeling seen, heard, and valued. And so it was just these three words that when you say them, it makes you happy, it makes you smile, it makes you feel something. And I knew I wanted the title to be a phrase that I would like. I would say to somebody, like, I see you, you know? And I always say, like, I see you, boo. You know, or something like that. And I wrote it. In almost every chapter of the book, I say something about, like, it was just so woven into the writing. And when I found my publisher, I was about six chapters in, and so they were like, well, just keep writing it. And then when they tried to change the title, I was like, it just won’t work. And I. The title for me is just everything. Like, I love it. I breathe it, and I feel like my. My friend made me this bracelet. She’s a swiftie. But it says, I see you. And it’s like my color teal. And it makes me so happy when I look at my wrist, it’s like, I see all of you, all of your flaws. I see you as the human being, not the human doing. And it’s funny you said that, because I’m so glad you love it. I love it. I knew that the people who connect with this work would love it. From a business perspective, I think it doesn’t. You know, they don’t think it sells the book.

But if you. You read it, it will. It will make sense. And if you know what I’m trying to convey, it makes sense.

[00:40:35] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, that’s lovely.

[00:40:38] Speaker A: If the listeners want to learn more about how you show up in the world, the services you offer, they want to learn more about your book, all of that. How would you direct them?

[00:40:51] Speaker B: I would just have them go to my website. It’s aarondeal.com, and it will take you everywhere. Instagram. LinkedIn is where I spend most of my time.

[00:41:01] Speaker A: Spell that for us, please.

[00:41:03] Speaker B: Okay, so it’s Aaron, Erin, and deal is spelled not like, let’s make a deal. It’s the german way. D I e h l. It’s Aaron deal.com. And that’s also my Instagram handle at. It’s errandeal. And it will take you everywhere to the book where you can find it. It will share with you how we use our work to help leaders in teams. It’s a pretty cool website. I’m really proud of it, too. Like, my team helped me build it, and it’s still. You know, it’s still getting things added to it as we speak. But it’s.

It’s. It’s like the thing that I have that embodies who I am now because my business website is amazing. But I feel like I’ve evolved even from 2020, when that was created.

[00:41:44] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:41:46] Speaker B: So it’s aarondiel.com. I would say go there.

[00:41:49] Speaker C: Great. Excellent.

[00:41:51] Speaker A: Why don’t we take this home? If you kind of had to cap off our discussion today. Around this topic of the world becomes more loving as I love myself.

What departing words of wisdom do you have?

[00:42:09] Speaker B: Okay, and I didn’t say this, so I don’t know who wrote this quote, but I love it so much and it’s kind of cheesy, but it really makes sense. If you can pretend that everyone you meet has a sign around their neck that says, make me feel important.

You will not only feel love because you’re giving love, you’ll receive it back.

And literally, we are the energy that we put out to the world. We become what we receive, what we are. So self love is the first step to living a life filled with abundance, a life that flows with ease and grace. And it’s such a better way to live. Like I wish, I wish my younger self could go back in time and actually, I wouldn’t change anything.

But I have lived both lives, and a life filled with freedom and flow is such an easier way because you just, you feel love at every turn.

[00:43:13] Speaker C: Yes.

[00:43:15] Speaker B: And supported. And you are supported. You just have to lean into it.

[00:43:18] Speaker C: Yeah.

[00:43:19] Speaker A: There is so much beauty and support if we have eyes to see it.

[00:43:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that’s great.

[00:43:28] Speaker A: Thank you so much for bringing your experience and your story to the listeners today. It was really a beautiful episode.

[00:43:35] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, I love your energy. And again, you have such a great vibe. This was probably one of the coolest conversations I’ve had in a long time. So thank you.

[00:43:44] Speaker A: That touches me. Thank you everyone. I am just overjoyed that you tuned in for another episode of Refractive. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your energy into that. And you know, as always, as we go out into the world and we experience people just doing the best they can, never forget to aim your light. Take care.

You’ve been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you found today’s content uplifting, if you think it might make somebody’s day better, give it a share on social media, click like subscribe. All those things help to expand this podcast availability to new audiences. I’m a spy, a coach, and a facilitator based out of Washington, DC, but I travel a lot. If you think I can be of service to you or to your organization, help people get unstuck or move into their authentic power, shoot me an email. My email address is refractivepodcastmail.com.

Take care. Thanks for listening and aim your light.

Learn more about Michael McPadden and his book “Genesis to Revelation” at www.Michael-McPadden.com. To contact host Johnny Guidry for spiritual coaching or to book him for speaking events, send a message to Re***************@***il.com or visit www.refractivecoaching.com.

Episode Transcript:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G. Today I have the pleasure of welcoming Michael McPadden to the show. He’s the author of Genesis to Revelation, Abraham’s Promise, finding Christ, and seeing God. Growing up in Virginia, Michael Dreamt one day of becoming a naval aviator. He reached that goal, eventually became a commercial pilot, and spent a satisfying career doing that.

As he approached retirement, Michael decided to spend his time doing something that was a bit more of a passion project, and he turned to researching not only the Bible and stories of Christianity, but also mythology in general.

Through this study and research, Michael published his first book, Genesis to Revelation. We’re here today to discuss some of his views on the messaging that is contained within the Bible and how it relates to a wider spiritual path of growth. This is an exciting conversation we’re going to have about what wealth there is in the Bible for those of us who are christian or non Christian and how we can apply this to living a better life, feeling a little more fulfilled in our time on this planet, and connecting in a deeper way, not only to our creator, but to each other. So I’m happy to have you here. Michael, thank you so much for joining me on the show.

[00:02:10] Speaker B: John, it’s a real honor to be here with you. I really appreciate you having me on, and let’s have a really good discussion today. Let’s provide a benefit for your audience. I’m really looking forward to it.

[00:02:21] Speaker A: I love it. When you and I first started to speak about how, I don’t know about your views, your understandings, the way you’ve absorbed the messaging of the Bible, I found that it really harmonized with how I see things. And one of the most exciting things for me that I’ve experienced over the course of this spiritual path that I’ve been on for the last, I don’t know, six or seven years, is that when I look at the mystical roots of almost any faith, they never argue with each other. When I look at the mystical roots of Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Zen. Right. When I look at Taoism they don’t argue with each other. They’re all saying the same things. And this has been something so comforting to me.

Having grown up deeply rooted in a traditional christian faith that unabashedly claimed to single handedly have the best path to God.

[00:03:35] Speaker B: The only path.

[00:03:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I never quite absorb that authentically. And I feel comforted that in my own research, I found that that doesn’t need to be the case.

[00:03:47] Speaker B: I agree 100%.

As far as the Bible and the study of the Bible goes, I kind of like that. If I could just take some time and give an overview of what occurred or what came out from my work, because I didn’t start with any goal in mind. I just wanted to learn like you’re talking about. I wanted to find out what is the truth. And I agree with you. I couldn’t agree more that these other religious traditions, spiritual traditions, have wonderful, profound statements of spirituality, how to live your life, what’s going on in our lives, to help direct us. And while the Christian Bible, or actually the Bible, just say the Bible, while it has some of those things in it, I always felt there was a lot missing. A lot missing. I would go to church and I would listen. I’m thinking, does this guy really know what he’s talking about? This doesn’t really jive with what I think things are or how I feel in my heart that something is. And so my first step was to study the New Testament. And I found some anomalies in the New Testament, nothing terrible, things like. So we hear that Jesus taught about eternal life. This is just an example. He never said that. He never used those words. He used Aeonian. And this is real key to understanding the message that Jesus left us with. He came to bring life to our life. So the word Aeonian means age. And the way the Greeks used it in the first century ad was age was the age of a man. So Johnny Giddy, for example, he was born on such a date, and he’ll die on such a date. And the time span and the life that Johnny lived in that time span was Johnny’s age. Okay? That’s exactly how the word was used. So Jesus said, I have come to bring you a onion. Life. Life now, not when we die. Life right now. So I saw that. I said, yeah, but you can read that anywhere on the Internet. People know this or the information is out there. It wasn’t stunning. And then for some reason, I was compelled to read Genesis, reread it. Actually, I’ve read it once I went, there’s no way I read Genesis. It’s boring. It doesn’t make it. It got a man and a woman. They’re naked. They’re hiding in a tree. There’s a talking serpent. I’m not interested. A little more background. I was trained as an engineer and a mathematician, and what I’m about to go into is mythology and reading the symbols within mythology. This is not engineer material. This is what’s so weird about, like, I don’t even believe in symbology, I don’t think, right?

[00:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:06:31] Speaker B: I start reading these myths, and I’m going, why am I reading this? Doesn’t make any sense. And all of a sudden, I’m reading Genesis one. I’m going, wait a minute. This is poetry. No, I’m not a literature guy, but I know poetry when I see it. These days are split in two. Every day has two parts to it. And then I thought, what was God’s name again that he gave to Moses at the burning bush?

So I go to Exodus. First thing I discover, and chapter three is like a long legal brief. You don’t have to read it if you don’t want to. You just go to the very end where it says, God’s real name is, I am, and I become.

I am the consciousness within, and I become the universe without I am and I become. That’s our God. He’s dualistic. There’s no triune God. He’s dualistic. He’s consciousness and he’s material.

So are we, coincidentally, right? So I went, whoa, wait a minute. So now I go back to Genesis one. All of a sudden, you know where it says, let there be light? Yeah, it’s clear. Look, I don’t speak Hebrew, but I know how to read the rules for grammar. And when you translate the Genesis one, it says something completely different. It wasn’t, let there be light. God says, I am light. And the way the Hebrew reads is, let’s see, elohim. And Elohim said, elohim is the name for God. And Elohim said, I am light, and he became light. Get it? I am, and I become also. I said, whoa, wait a minute.

There’s, like, 50 times within Genesis one where God’s name, as I am and I become, pops out at you as a reader once you start looking for it. That’s what I did. I started saying, well, wait a minute.

If I know this now, then this changes Genesis one and how it’s supposed to be read. So the way it works is the first part of the day I am consciousness. Declares what will be. And the second half of the day I become, becomes those things. Okay, well, this is completely different. This is profound. Now we have a profound bible. Now we have something that, this is better than all the rest of the writings I’ve ever seen, because this is fantastic.

It tells us how God creates reality. Now, I can keep going on if you want, we could talk about that, but just as a brief overview. Genesis one tells us how God creates reality. Genesis two tells us how God and man, working together, create man’s reality. Genesis three tells us how we lost our connection to the creative divine.

Then we jump to the next chapters are all about the New Testament. We need a messiah. We need someone to come along who went to the other side, came back. Okay, this is how it’s done. This is how you can have your own hero’s journey. Then the next chapter is about the hero’s journey. Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey. We’re all on a spiritual hero’s journey, every one of us. There are 17 gates that we must pass through, and the very end is resurrection is the ultimate boon, as Joseph Campbell calls it. But it’s Resurrection, and resurrection is uniting with consciousness.

All right, so then that’s what the New Testament does. So Jesus teaches us how to pray and how to believe. That’s how we move ourselves further along the Path. Paul tells us what to look for. These are the gates of the awakening. As Paul understood, Paul was an awakened master. He knew what the gates were, and he tells us in his epistles what they are, what to look for. And then revelation is a very concise, it’s not concise, it’s a very elaborate. Hero’s journey starts at the beginning, when we hear the call across the threshold into the unknown land, and it ends with all of us, all of us as brothers walking into the holy city together.

A lovely story. And that’s what the Bible really is. That’s the story of the human soul, and that’s the Story that the Bible tells. There you go. I’m done. Look, I got it out.

[00:10:56] Speaker A: That’s quite the journey. And there’s so many different aspects of this we could talk about today. And I’m glad that you kind of gave us a bit of an overview of some of the high points. And I want to focus on the topic because you said something that I found very interesting when we were initially speaking together about how, in your view, the idea of heaven and hell, as we’re traditionally taught through dogma and religious traditions, seems to have really missed the point that you have a slightly different. Well, a very different understanding of what heaven and hell is. And I personally also have a very different understanding of heaven and hell than what I was taught as a kid in catholic school. And so I thought that this would be a really interesting area of focus for us because, well, it’s so central to the life of faith that so many of us were brought up in this idea of heaven and hell being the be all, end all.

And when I begin to look through it through different perspectives, it changes my entire relationship to spirituality. So I wonder if you could kind of walk us through.

First of all, what do you see as?

How do you define heaven and hell?

[00:12:44] Speaker B: Okay, so, first of all, that was a great question, by the way. I want your audience to understand that I’m not making any of this up on my own. I’m finding evidence of the Bible. If I found heaven and hell in the Bible, that’s what I would put in my book. I don’t have a horse in this race. No one asked for my vote. I didn’t get a choice. I’m here. I’m just telling you what the Bible says. So the metaphor for our lives is given to us in the days of creation. And God says he becomes the evening. He becomes the morning. He’s not part of the darkness of night. The darkness is the journey into the material world of egoism. See, that’s where we lose our divine connection by becoming egoic, and we all do this. This is eating from the tree of knowledge. And a lot of people understand. They say, they think that what Yahweh Elohim tells the man in Genesis two is that if you eat, he didn’t say that. He says, in the day that you eat, meaning we will all eat from the tree of knowledge. We will become a goic, and we’ll lose our connection to God. The journey is to reverse that. That’s what the spiritual journey, trials and tribulations. We end with resurrection for all men. I’m trying to make point here, okay?

And so the model of it is, we become the evening when we are children. Jesus said, for truly theirs is the kingdom of heaven. In other words, kids live in the kingdom of heaven. And unless we become like them, we won’t.

So they come in the evening, then they enter the darkness right around puberty. I guess it’s a transition, and it’s a process. You don’t become egoic overnight. You transition.

[00:14:27] Speaker A: Wait, let me jump in here, Michael, because you’re referencing evening and morning and things and I don’t think that we’ve established what you mean by that. So can you go back and kind of lay some groundwork on what you mean by evening and morning? What are you talking about?

[00:14:43] Speaker B: Okay, so every day of creation, it ends. Okay, so first God declares what will be. Then God, as I become, builds. He doesn’t create. He builds in time the things of creation. So he declares that he builds, and every day ends with. And he became the evening, and he became the morning. Day 1234 and five. Right? Okay, so you have this picture of the light. I am light. So God is the light. He’s the sun in this metaphor. And so all the building and creating goes on during the day. And then it says, he becomes the evening, the fading light of evening, as we. His creation fades into the darkness of egoic existence. Okay, so we’re traveling, John, you and I, buddy, we’re traveling through the darkness together. Yes, but there’s light, and we’re going to the dawn. We’re moving towards dawn. And dawn begins the resurrection. So as you approach got. As you approach the end of your life, people who are older are so much more spiritual. And it’s because I think, I’m writing another book, but I have a feeling it has to do with the degeneration of the human brain that doesn’t allow us to be as egoic as we are when we’re younger. I don’t know. I’m guessing there, but basically the metaphor is evening, darkness, dawn, resurrection, back to God in the light.

[00:16:19] Speaker A: Right?

[00:16:20] Speaker B: Okay, that’s what you believe, right?

[00:16:22] Speaker A: Okay. Yes. And I want to wrap as we continue to move on.

This feels right to me, because.

[00:16:36] Speaker B: What.

[00:16:36] Speaker A: I believe is that we’re all sparks of the creator, and we’re all on an inevitable journey towards reunification with the creator. And that in order for me to experience reunion, reunification, communion with the creator, I have to.

I have to go through this ego experience, which, the way I see it is I’m like a gem that’s full of fissures and imperfections. And as I move through this and find love as my natural response to this gunk, rather than a lack of love ego. In response to the gunk, I heal the fissures one by one by one. And as I eventually become a perfectly clear diamond, right, without all of that ego gunk that I got in the darkness, I am then capable of reunification with the creator.

That’s how I see my journey of moving through the evening and back towards the resurrection. It’s heal. Find God’s love. And perfection in all things, not just the pleasant, not just the beautiful. And as I do that in heal, I become more able to see the light of God without obstacle, without blocking.

And I’m thus prepared to be in God’s presence more directly. And the thing about this belief that I really like is that I can speak to catholic dogma, because that’s what I was raised in. The Catholics are so close. This idea of purgatory, right, instead of this idea of, like, purgatory is this between world my soul goes to after death. Purgatory is now, like purgatory is the process of healing and cleansing and becoming again able to stand in the presence of God, unobstructed, because I have healed, because my energy has risen in quality, in clarity, in vibration, that I can actually withstand the presence of God.

Anyway, I just wanted to kind of layer my own beliefs on top of yours. And to me, they align very closely.

[00:19:41] Speaker B: They’re exactly correct. The only thing I would change from what you were saying is that you were saying that then you become capable.

You want to push those two together and say, as I get clearer, I do stand in the presence of God more and more. It’s not something. There’s no options here. It’s like, as you throw off your egoic chains, you become free. That’s what being in God is. And so Paul described it. He said, now I look through a glass or a darkened glass, but later, face to face.

That was Paul. Paul was brilliant. I love anything he wrote. He’s a brilliant man. But anyway. No, you just described what I did.

But you believe what Genesis teaches already, and you haven’t even read it. I don’t think.

Not the decrypted version. Right. Because these are myths. Now, let me take a minute to explain a myth.

[00:20:43] Speaker A: Okay.

Some people might bristle when they hear this.

[00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So a myth. This is my definition. But a myth is any story, either fiction or nonfiction, that is written in a particular format. And I call it mythical literature. So when you write a story as mythical literature, it can be about a real person. For example, the story of Abraham.

I think you’ll like this. The story of Abraham is the myth Abraham. My book depends. Almost a lot of my book depends on the fact that Abraham brought the first eleven chapters of Genesis with him when he left sumer. So I fully believe Abraham was a real person. But his story is written as mythical literature to teach us a lesson. Here’s a story, quick and dirTy. So Abraham leaves Sumer, and he and his wife Sarah cannot have a child. She’s barren. And so Abraham really wants an heir. And so Sarah says, hey, go sleep with the slave hagar and let her bear you a son. So he does. And so Hagar bears Abraham’s first son. His name is Ishmael, but he was born as a bond servant because he was born to a slave. But then, miraculously, God raises something from the dead to living again, which was SaraH’s womb.

This is what we read in revelation. God raises the kingdom back alive again so that we can have this resurrection experience. So he raises something that was dead to life again. And Sarah becomes pregnant with Abraham’s second son, and his name is Isaac. And so Isaac is born to a free woman. So he’s a free man.

Ishmael, the first man, represents Adam, the man of bonDage, our ego. And Isaac, the second man, represents the man of freedom, which is Christ. So this is, in a nutshell, the journey of the human soul. We are born as Adam, but we resurrect as Christ.

Okay, cool. Pretty cool, isn’t it? I like that every story in the Bible is written like that. And I want to throw this out to your audience. Maybe some of them aren’t all that interested in pursuing a spiritual path or what I’m describing. If they’re interested in mythology, my book does a real good job of teaching how I’m doing this decoding. Anyone can do it if you know what you’re looking for. So you can take what I teach you in my book about decoding the Mythology, you go through the Bible yourself and decode it. There’s hundreds of these Things. I scratch the Surface. So all you sleuths, all you mythological, and you can do this. Like, I’ve decoded greek myths and sumerian myths using the same method. It’s just not that hard. You have to know they’re written in symbolic language.

That’s kind of an off thing. But anyway, GeneSis, all the Genesis stories are Myths.

All of the characters that you see are symbolic of other things, like the man and the woman. In Genesis, two people call them Adam and Eve, but the woman is a symbolic entity. She represents human self awareness. Yeah. So the fall from grace was us as consciousness, entering into human self awareness, creating our ego. The ego comes out of our belief system. That’ll be in chapter one. And the belief system is what locks us into ego.

When consciousness creates reality through believing.

But when locked into your belief system, in your egoic consciousness, all you can believe is what? Your belief system, right? Yes. Okay. Does that make sense?

[00:24:46] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:24:46] Speaker B: Oh, this is great. I’m so happy.

So all you know is Johnny giddy. That’s all you know? You live where you live, you eat what you eat. Your world is what it is, but you probably see it in your life, changes in yourself, affecting how your world comes to you.

I had to take a day off yesterday. I went snowboarding for the first time in ten years, so it was a lot of fun. And I was in such a good mood just for everything, right? And I get out there, and guess what? This is weird. Everybody else was in a really good mood, too, with me. Yeah, that’s okay. And I’m sure there are people who are giving me sideways glances for various reasons, cutting them off on the slope or something. I didn’t notice those people. So as we change, our world changes. But as we’re in Goic, we’re locked into the belief system and what it believes. When we free ourselves, it’s just us in our mind, and we can believe whatever we.

[00:25:47] Speaker A: Right. That’s right.

[00:25:49] Speaker B: That’s what Jesus taught us.

[00:25:51] Speaker A: Yes.

Okay, look, like you said, there’s so many rabbit holes I want to jump down. There’s so many quotes and verses that I want to go into, and we just don’t have time for that.

I’m like a kid at the candy store, and I want to try it all, but okay, I’m going to bring us back.

[00:26:14] Speaker B: Oh, heaven and hell. Let’s go to heaven and hell, because you did ask that question.

[00:26:18] Speaker A: I know you read let’s go to heaven and hell. So I want you to tell me, I want you to contrast for me, if this feels right for you, what your view of we’ll start with heaven is. What is your view of heaven, and how does it contrast with the view of heaven that we tend to be taught by christian dogma?

[00:26:44] Speaker B: Well, I don’t believe in that heaven at all. It doesn’t exist. Nothing exists after our death. Nothing. I’m not saying we’re going to nothing. I’m just saying when you’re dead, you’re dead. So that’s number one.

What Jesus talked about wasn’t a heaven. He talked about the kingdom of the heavens. While you live right now, we can experience the kingdom of the heavens like the children that I talked about earlier. But it requires some spiritual practices. The most important one is spiritual believing. You have to believe there’s a kingdom of the heavens, and you have to believe that you’re worthy of it. Knock on the door and it’ll be open. It’s that simple. You just have to change your mind and believe. That’s what Jesus taught. So let’s say I was going to write you a letter, and I’m one page Dear John, I can’t ever talk again, but this letter is for you to try and live your life by. There’s a heaven and hell. How much of that letter would you think if I really was your friend, how much of that letter would be focused on stay out of hell?

You don’t need to know a thing about heaven. Just don’t go to hell. We’re crying out loud. The Bible doesn’t even talk about hell. So if there was a hell, most of the Bible we about stay out of that place. We’re crying out loud. It’s terrible. So the jewish tradition in the first century was there was no talk of the afterlife.

When you died, the righteous and the unrighteous went to Sheol. Shiol is a hebrew word for grave, the beyond, the unknown. When they wrote a book called the Septuagint, which is the greek version of the Hebrew Bible, back about 250 BC, every time the editors would come across the word shiol, they replaced it with the greek word Hades.

So when Jesus and Paul talked about the unknown, death, things like that, they would refer to shield. No one knows what happens in shield. The righteous and the unrighteous go to the same place in this tradition, and that’s what Jesus and Paul taught. But the word they used was Hades. So every time you see hell in the New Testament, it’s Hades.

Did Jesus believe in Hades, the God Hades, or did he believe in the land called all that’s. They don’t exist anyway. That’s why you just don’t find hell spoken of in the Bible whatsoever when they talk about heaven. Heaven isn’t what these early translators tried to understand. They took their egoic minds and tried to take these spiritual ideas and put them into the physical. They couldn’t understand what it was to be in the kingdom of the heavens, so they assumed that what would happen is when you die, you went to heaven. But Jesus tells us what happens when we die. We go to paradise. We don’t go to heaven, we go to paradise. When he was on the cross talking to the thief, and he says, truly, I tell you, today, you and I will be in paradise.

Okay, so heaven and hell, no resurrection. Yes. That’s all Jesus ever talked about. He never talked about heaven and hell. Paul didn’t. It’s not in revelation. Revelation tells us, as brothers, we all walk into the city together, we all rise at the same time. Oh, there’s another rabbit hole we’re going to go down. Now, since I said that we all rise together, what that means is we are leaving different points of the axis of time that we live in, right? But we’re going to the same time together. So when you die and you get ready to cross that line, you’ll do it with your parents, you’ll do it with your grandparents, you’ll do it with everyone you’ve ever known. You’ll do it with Jesus, you’ll do it with Napoleon, you’ll do it with Joan of Arc, whomever. But we all are traveling into the eternal moment.

[00:30:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:54] Speaker B: Okay, so that’s why Paul says we all rise together in Christ.

[00:31:01] Speaker A: Okay?

[00:31:02] Speaker B: That’s why revelation says we all walk into the city.

[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. I’m here for that.

And when you say in Christ, are you referring to Christ consciousness, that perfectly crystallized united soul entity that is purely prepared to stand in the presence of the creator? Is that what you mean?

[00:31:30] Speaker B: Yes, but it’s more complicated than that. As you might have imagined, it’s not too much more complicated. So Christ is the creation.

Christ is the whole thing. It’s your birth, it’s your walk through life, and it’s your death. So the way John, the author of Revelation, puts it, he says, I, your brother John, or I, John, your brother. Ready? In the trials, the tribulations, and the kingdom, which are all found in Christ.

So our entire life is Christ?

Yes. We’re going to have Christ consciousness. That’s part of the blueprint. That’s how this works. Very simple. So you’re going through all this stuff you’re going through in life and the trials and the tribulations and the learning and the setbacks and all these things going on, but slowly but surely, you’re passing through one of the 17 gates, and as you pass through that gate, you have less to go, and you get closer to the purification that you’re talking about. Right? So you’re on track.

You don’t even need to read my book. You got all this stuff figured out.

Look.

[00:32:46] Speaker A: This is all I. All I. You know, all I really kind of have to say is that I believe that. That return to the creator is inevitable.

It is not something that I believe is to be earned through righteousness.

It is that there are these near infinite pathways to return to the creator, and every pathway returns to the creator eventually. Time is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter whether I dedicate my entire life right now to living in a remote monastic environment or whether I go on crime sprees, I do not ever impede my return to the creator. There’s no guarantee of efficiency and timeliness. But I can’t possibly get in the way of my return to the creator because it is, even from a physics perspective, it’s the return to zero. It’s the return to zero.

It’s the endpoint of entropy. It’s the beginning and endpoint. It’s the alpha and the omega. It is, like, unavoidable.

And we’re all along for the ride.

And this idea of an eternity in either a reward state of heaven or a penalty state of hell, it doesn’t fit for me.

[00:34:34] Speaker B: It doesn’t fit.

[00:34:35] Speaker A: And I don’t want to just willy nilly disregard the deeply held beliefs around this by millions and millions of people. Who am I right?

[00:34:49] Speaker B: Yet.

[00:34:51] Speaker A: When I look at the soul’s journey based on my discernment and based on what I perceive in the discernment of people whose journeys I trust, heaven and hell, to me, and I wonder if you’d agree, is simply the state of.

Let me see.

It is simply the decision to be aligned with this soul journey or the decision to resist the soul’s journey. As if I ever really could. And to completely devote myself to my ego’s definition of survival and security that is hell.

And complete surrender to the spiritual path as arranged by not Johnny, whatever. Not Johnny is heaven.

And the way that I can test this is that. Michael, I don’t know about you, but for most of my life, I tried so hard to do everything right. I tried to study, I tried to work hard. I tried to build loving relationships. I tried to establish my physical security and welfare. I tried to manage my finances. I tried to create peace in the world. I tried to be a good person. And yet, everything hurt. Everything was uncomfortable. And none of these things could I truly say I was successful even in my career, where I got applauded and promoted and recognized I had an unhealthy relationship with my egoic attachment to my career. So even that with pats on the back, wasn’t painless. It was painful because it was wrought from fear.

And so that is hell, to do everything right, quote right.

And still life is painful at all turns, as opposed to heaven, which is to say, I’m here, I surrender. I catch the wind like a kite. I go where the wind blows me. I’m here for the journey. I open myself up to receive all. I open myself up to be all. I open myself up to experience all.

There’s no room for stress in that perspective. There’s no room for pain in that perspective. In that perspective, the death of my child is not an obstacle to joy, as weird and revolutionary as that sounds. I know I sound like a crazy person, but I’m going to say it again. When I adopt the perspective that I am only here to surrender when things happen that I don’t like, it has no bearing on my potential for joy.

[00:38:23] Speaker B: Right, exactly.

I have good news and bad news. The bad news is life’s supposed to be hard. It’s supposed to be suffering. It’s like, what? That’s nuts. But it’s true. We’re here because.

Okay, so in chapter three of Genesis, the man chooses the tree of knowledge, right? When he chooses the tree of knowledge, the woman comes alive as human self awareness and begins talking.

And then her children are the various manifestations of ego that we deal with in life. They never go away until we conquer them. They never go away. In revelation, it’s referred to as the beast with the mortal wound that lived. These are our expressions of ego and habits that we develop in our lives. Let’s say I can’t drink alcohol. I’m an alcoholic. I hate to say that, but it’s true. It’s like a failure for me, but I don’t really care anymore. I can’t drink alcohol. It’s terrible for me.

That beast that I created by drinking whatever I created, it was part of my life plan, however you want to look at it, but it’s still a beast, and it’s a beast that should be dead because I said I’m not going to drink anymore. But that beast is alive. I know it is. I know it is. It has a mortal wound, but yet that beast still lives. So we’re going through the darkness. We are dead spiritually.

You can’t have a greater hell than being dead, completely cut off from God, I don’t think.

But then we start to awaken, and then we leave hell. And that would be heaven? Yeah, I guess if you wanted to imagine the resurrection as heaven. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I just don’t use the terms because they’re fake terms in the New Testament. They don’t talk about some heaven as a place. There’s a kingdom of the heavens that we experience. That’s the tree of life. And then there’s Hades, which is the grave, the unknown. What happens when we pass? What happens? We don’t know. And so we don’t talk about it. I guess so. I don’t use heaven and hell particularly for that reason. They’re not really in the.

[00:40:42] Speaker A: If, as we kind of get to the closing of this arc that we’re talking about here, I don’t know if you would agree with me, and I certainly invite you to share your perspective on this, but I guess what I would encourage people to do is to go within, turn within, enter the stillness within, and ask yourself, how do you define heaven and hell? Read everything that you can. Read spiritual texts, listen to people who study this, internalize it all, and then come up with what feels right to you. Because if there’s anything that I truly believe, it’s that you already are.

You already know.

And the answers are in the stillness.

[00:41:34] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. And this is what Paul teaches in his epistles. He constantly. So one of the things they do in the interpretation of the New Testament, it’s very irritating to me, is that they misconjugate words sometimes or they’ll put wrong translations to them. For example, when Paul talks about gifts of the spirit that you received in Christ, he doesn’t talk about them as something that will happen. He says, you already have them. They’re already there. Like, you have already been seated with Christ in the kingdom of the heavens. That’s already happened. You haven’t realized it yet in time, but it’s there. It’s not something God has withheld. God’s done all these things. And so what you just said is just a reflection of what Paul taught, what Jesus taught, too. But the point is that, yeah, all these things that are supposedly waiting for us are already done. They’re just waiting for us to realize them in our awakening path.

[00:42:34] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:42:35] Speaker B: Everything that we believe or that we understand to be true about spirituality is found in the Bible one way or another. One of the things I do, I have a Twitter account. So what I do is I’ll go. And I have followed a lot of these Twitter sites that basically put out eastern philosophies. Good stuff. But I’ll read it, and then my response will always be where it says that in the Bible. Yeah, right. And so it’s just the way, it’s like, I’m not trying to say you’re wrong. In fact, I’m agreeing with you. What I’m saying is that all of these teachings are in the Bible, too.

[00:43:10] Speaker A: All align.

[00:43:11] Speaker B: If we just wake up and look at. Yeah, that’s it.

[00:43:16] Speaker A: That’s it. I love it. Michael, I really enjoyed doing a bit of a deeper dive here. I don’t know if I’d call it philosophical. I don’t exactly know how I’d refer to it, but it’s been a really nice deep dive. And if listeners would like to learn more about you, your path, your book, where would you direct them?

[00:43:38] Speaker B: I have a website. It basically is just going to direct you to Amazon to buy my book. But the book is genesis to revelation, and it’s by author Michael McPadden. It’s on Amazon Kindle, paperback, hardback.

I have a Twitter account.

It’s Genesis two, underscore Rev. Okay, yeah. And if I could leave your audience with just one thing that I would encourage them to do, and this is in my book, chapter nine. The book talks about prayer and belief and how it’s done. But if you could just take something away, believe me when I’m telling you that consciousness creates reality, and this is what Jesus taught. If you could just believe, you can do so. It’s so simple. And yet why don’t they teach that church? I don’t know.

[00:44:35] Speaker A: That’s it. I love that. The ultimate empowerment there.

[00:44:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. It’s all within us. We just have to make the choice.

[00:44:43] Speaker A: That’s beautiful. Michael, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us today. And I have deep respect for anyone who dedicates this kind of effort to his spiritual path. And as I said earlier, we don’t all end up following the same path, we don’t all end up with the same beliefs, we don’t all end up adhering to the same principles, but we’re all ending up in the same place.

[00:45:16] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.

[00:45:17] Speaker A: It’s unavoidable. So I see you, and I’m glad to walk this parallel path with you, buddy.

[00:45:24] Speaker B: This is fantastic. Johnny, thank you so much for having me on. It really has been an honor and a privilege and I just enjoyed the conversation. I could talk about this stuff all day, but this has been great.

[00:45:34] Speaker A: Same here, everyone. Thanks again for tuning in to an episode of Refractive. And as you go out in your day, always remember to aim your light. Take care.

To learn more about Mariko’s work, visit her website at www.MistressMariko.com or find her on social media: @MistressMariko.

To contact host Johnny Guidry to discuss spiritual coaching, speaking engagements, or episode feedback, email him at Re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com

Episode Transcript:
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G. Today I’m joined by Mariko Sakai. She is a businesswoman, coach, thought leader, TEDx, speaker and light worker. She focuses on helping people wake up from societal expectations and reorient to a truly authentic life. She herself lives an alternative lifestyle. She’s a certified coach in sex, love, relationships, conscious dating, tantric intimacy, women’s empowerment and ethical bdsm. She’s trained in human design, EFT, co creative science, and she is my wonderful guest today. Welcome, Mariko. I’m so happy to have you here.

[00:01:29] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Johnny, for having me. It was an honor.

[00:01:33] Speaker A: And today we’re here to talk about your area of specialization, relationships, sexuality, and the rich personal growth and spiritual development that’s available to that part of our life. And I think it’s a really interesting topic.

[00:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. There’s so much here.

[00:01:56] Speaker A: Why do you think this was an area of focus that you moved into?

[00:02:04] Speaker B: Why?

I am not sure, but maybe I feel like part of the reason why. It has to do with the fact that since I was like a little girl, I always kind of identify as not fitting in.

I was not like a typical girl. It was more than just like a tomboy type thing.

So I feel like there is a part of me just kind of always aware of who I am, but not really feeling like I fit into like a typical girl box.

And also not wanting to. Growing up, not wanting to fit into that box as a way of kind of as a woman. Like growing up in japanese society, in any society, there is this sexism and woman should be this, a girl should be like that and a boy should be like this. And I never really fit in. But also I did not want to grow up to be an adult woman where I am lesser than men or like I’m less successful than men or I wanted to make sure that I am very successful in every way and don’t fit into this typical, kind of like a submissive or lesser role, if you will, for a woman so there is intentional. I was kind of a natural born, like a different girl, but also I want to be like this. There is a very clear picture of that, too. So I was always kind of aware of what society was expecting of me, but who I really am, and then just kind of always kind of aware of that kind of a balance or the misalignment between the two.

[00:04:18] Speaker A: It sounds like your coaching journey has a parallel to mine.

When I had, I guess, what I call a spiritual awakening, and that empowered me to stop living my life according to what I was taught, my life should look like. I was able to step away from my traditional career and instead do things that felt good to my spirit. I was able to change the nature of my relationships with people, walk away with individuals. That darkened my spirit, even if society says I had an obligation to be with them.

My spirit told me, no leave, and I did.

And as I felt the refreshment of living this way, I all of a sudden wanted to help other people feel that way, too. And it sounds like what you do for a living in helping people, especially in the niche of relationships, is an outpouring of your own journey and what you learn to help yourself. And now maybe you want to provide that support to other people on the same journey. Does that sound right?

[00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that’s exactly right. And then, so I attract the people who basically conform to the society’s expectations, and then they are successful doing it.

And I was very successful, quote unquote, as well. But then after a while, I realized, oh, my God, am I happy?

No.

[00:06:12] Speaker A: Right?

[00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:06:16] Speaker A: How can I be so unhappy when I’ve done everything right that was, I had. Why am I unhappy? I did what I was supposed to. My job looks like it was supposed to. My relationships look like they’re supposed to. Everything in my life, I’ve architected it based on what I’ve been taught. Why doesn’t it feel good? It was baffling to me. It felt so unfair. It felt like I had to be so damaged in order to not enjoy a life that looked like it should be right.

And in reality, it was not right. It was somebody else’s right. It wasn’t my right.

[00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And then that somebody else probably don’t exist.

[00:07:06] Speaker A: Exactly.

I love that. So I love that you’re on this journey, and I love that you dedicate your life to helping people arrive at that same beautiful realization as you did. So why don’t we dig right into this topic? It’s a rich one.

[00:07:23] Speaker B: Yeah, sounds good.

[00:07:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the things that you mentioned to me is that you feel very passionate about inviting people to be honest with themselves about what they want and what they don’t want. And I have to tell you, Marico, this is a refractive podcast message.

I have one episode that’s literally called be honest with yourself.

And I have this message of, like, really respect what you want and what you don’t want and move toward it. I’ve talked about that quite a bit, so I’m excited to revisit this topic with you.

What do you mean by that?

How can someone get honest with themselves about what they want or what they don’t want?

[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah, this is actually quite difficult, I find, and I’m an honest person.

I’m sure a lot of people can relate to that. Like, well, what can I do? I’m already honest.

So in my experience, it requires looking in the areas that I was not willing to look at.

That’s where it comes down to.

And I became passionate about this, looking in basically shadow and then dark areas that I possessed, but I still possess, but I was choosing to not look at it because I’m a successful person, I’m a good person, and I can just kind of pretend these things don’t exist about me, right. And then, so I almost forget, like, I even have these things over here. But the reality is that I just kind of put them aside, try not to look at them, pretend that they don’t exist. That’s not part of me. No, I’m successful. I’m a good person here. So this is the way I live my life, almost all of my life.

And then I did everything that I know to be successful, right? I mean, I took all the training. I have a degree, I speak multiple languages, all of these things. And then I was still not happy.

I was feeling empty and I was feeling very misaligned about who I am, and I did not know what was wrong.

And then, so the reason why I became so passionate about and then the reason why this becoming honest with yourself can be hard is because you are most likely, and like, I was working so hard to be right, to have this great life become happy and successful and all of this.

And so intentionally, we are not looking at these areas, these shadow, dark areas.

And like I said, I almost forgot that I had these things.

And it kind of feels scary because we don’t look at these areas because I feel ashamed. I’m fearful that I cannot believe it’s part of me, right? So to kind of invite people to be honest, that’s really what I mean by look at purposely the areas where I’ve chosen to not look at, like turn the blind eye, pretend doesn’t exist.

[00:11:14] Speaker A: And so let’s apply this to the world of relationships. Because, listen, you and I, we could talk all day long about hidden rage or hidden greed or all of these kind of shadow sides. But if we’re talking specifically about relationships and everyone’s individual orientation towards relationship status, whether I’m someone that prefers being single, prefers being married, prefers being in an open relationship, prefers just dating, whatever that is. When you talk about getting honest with yourself about what you want and don’t want, how does that apply to my romantic life?

[00:12:00] Speaker B: That is a really big question. So I would say that it is such a core of you that these like love and sex and relationship.

[00:12:26] Speaker A: Because we’re spoon fed. Like we’re told, well, you’re not married in your late thirty s. I mean, something’s wrong.

That’s the quiet messaging. I mean, in some homes, that might not be quiet messaging, that might be direct messaging. In my home, that’s never spoken, but certainly in my society, it’s like, yeah, you’re single and you’re 42 and you’ve never been in a relationship. So what’s wrong?

[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yes, that’s right. Yeah.

Where I grew up in Japan, there is this analogy of for women, like, oh, woman, you don’t want to be a Christmas cake. Well, what does that mean? Well, after the 25, no one wants you.

Yeah, this is a joke, but it’s really harsh. And of course, my parents, fortunately, they didn’t give me that kind of a pressure. But how many people will choose to be in a certain relationship because they were told that’s what they’re supposed to do? Right.

And when it comes to sex, I mean, who told you how to do it, right?

[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah.

Nobody trustworthy told me how to do it. I could tell you that much.

[00:13:51] Speaker B: Exactly.

Who got a proper education about it?

Maybe just looking some magazine and porn.

That’s it.

Including myself. Until I got my sex coaching certification, I got a proper training about what is it? What is sex?

How to have it in the most pleasurable way. What’s the purpose of it? More than just a procreation?

No one’s learning this thing.

[00:14:25] Speaker A: No.

[00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah. No one’s teaching it, no one’s seeking it. Right.

[00:14:30] Speaker A: Exactly.

My brain is just so full of thoughts around this. If we’re talking about sex, it’s like, well, if you don’t like intercourse, something’s wrong. Right. Or the other parts are just extra. Well, that’s not true. Some people are wired differently. Some people don’t like intercourse and they like another part of sex. And the fact is, when you say it’s time to get honest about what you want and don’t want out of relationships, we’re not just talking about the sexual part, like, we’re talking about fulfillment. Fulfillment for my romantic life. Do I even know what I want? Have I even stopped to look inside myself and say, I don’t want to live that way, or I do want to live that way, and here’s why I want to live that way. I understand why I want to live that way, rather than just taking spoon fed societal education that misaligns with who we are.

[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel like because of the taboo labeling of sex, we don’t even properly talk about it. Right. So all we do, most of us, all we do is like, oh, I heard or read about this in the magazine, and this is probably how I’m supposed to be doing it. And I don’t get why this could be so fun, or I only know this one way.

Like you’re saying we don’t really think about what do I really want? We don’t even think about it. Do I want a partner? Well, if I do, how many or what kind?

I didn’t think much about that when I was young.

I thought that I kind of feel like I want to have children. I feel like that’s in my future, and I found someone who could be a good father of my children.

That’s different from I want a soulmate or I want a partner. It’s very different. But we do it because society says I should get married. If I want to do this, do that if you want to be successful. Right.

[00:17:17] Speaker A: All right, here we go.

We’re in this swamp of other people’s information.

We can’t see because the water is cloudy. We don’t know what we want. We’re like, oh, no, I got to have a kid by the time I’m 30.

I got to get married. I have this right. We don’t even know what we want. We only know what we’ve been conditioned to desire. Okay. And so how do we see clearly? How do you help people to understand what they want at the most pure level?

[00:17:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So it is hard. It is challenging.

It really is. And so for me, that the way worked, like I said earlier, that it took me to look into the area that I was least willing to look at. That was the fastest way to do it.

[00:18:23] Speaker A: You’re willing to share with us what area that was.

[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So beginning of that, my journey was to actually go through divorce, which I had this strong conditioning. That’s not for me. No, I’m not doing it.

[00:18:38] Speaker A: Divorce is unacceptable.

[00:18:40] Speaker B: Exactly. That’s a failure. I’m not a failure, so I’m not doing it.

So that was one thing that was actually huge for me, that actually doing it.

And then he really had this feeling of. It was a mutual thing, but I was not going to initiate because I had this strong condition. It is wrong to do it, especially because I have children. We have children together.

And then. So once I looked at it and then did it in a way that I never thought possible for a divorce, I was like, oh, my God. And then it made me feel so free.

And when I say free, the.

It’s. It’s hard to describe how that felt. I felt for the first time, whole.

[00:19:41] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.

[00:19:43] Speaker B: And then I feel, like, whole. And then I kind of have this feeling like I used to feel this way every day when I was a child.

[00:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:19:53] Speaker B: But after a while, maybe I would say six, seven years old, I just gradually start to lose that feeling of whole and a being myself.

Divorce is just one big thing that just opened up.

It was like a lock of the jail that I put myself in.

And then. So I opened the key, but it really had this feeling of instead of trying to open the key of the jail, it was more like, I melted the jails away.

It disappeared. And then I was like, or like, it expanded. That jail expanded. Jail was, like, right here, just hugging my body, and I couldn’t move and I couldn’t feel. I didn’t even know who I am to just kind of, boom, expansion of the jail I was in. So there was a lot of loose bars and, like, oh, I can just get out.

[00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah, that’s right.

Yes.

[00:21:10] Speaker B: That was the feeling when that happened. And then after that, I experienced so many other areas of the things that I thought wasn’t for me and then realized, oh, my God, I actually love this thing. And every time I experience something, I said, no, and then look into that and I’m like, oh, my God, I love it. And every time it was like a boom. It’s like a huge expansion of, like, wow, where does this. All this space that was available to me that I wasn’t aware of it, that feeling of, I guess that is the power of truth that is there, but no one can give it to me.

I’m the only one.

If I am really willing to look at the truth in that way, yes.

Then it becomes mine.

But it’s mine already. But I can’t use it.

That’s the power of becoming honest and then looking into those areas that you don’t want to admit about yourself.

[00:22:48] Speaker A: I’m the monster under my bed. There is no monster under my bed. I’m the one that’s waiting to get me.

I’m the jailer that’s holding me in my cell. There is no jailer. It’s me.

I love thinking of it as the only thing strong enough to cut a diamond is a diamond. No one can hold me back but me. No one has the power to hold me back but me. I’m the only one powerful enough. And so it’s one of the most beautiful things that I get to work with, with clients. And I know that you do, too. It’s helping someone open their eyes and see that there’s not a damn thing in the world that can stop you but you. And if you felt stuck, then the good news is there’s no one else that I have to go convince to let me go. It’s just you.

Only one.

[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And it’s one of those things that a lot of people say, I want to be confident.

How do I become confident? I feel like it’s the same thing that I feel like that it’s really just you in the way.

I am in my way.

Go ahead.

[00:24:17] Speaker A: I was going to say, there’s this horror movie from the gosh, the title of it is escaping me, but there’s a babysitter, and she’s in the house by herself where the kids are sleeping. And she gets a threatening phone call.

And the phone call frightens her very much. And she calls the police and says, someone told me that they were going to hurt me and the kids that I’m babysitting, and I’m so scared. And the police says, oh, we’re going to go ahead and research that call. Well, the phone call comes back and they say, ma’am, this is the police. The phone call is coming from inside your house.

And she realizes that the person who is threatening her is already in the house with her and the kids. So it’s terrifying. It’s terrifying. But that’s a great analogy for I terrify myself.

The phone call is coming from inside the house. Right. You say, oh, when people want to be confident. Well, I’m the one that dared me not to be confident.

And it doesn’t mean it’s easy, but it means this is an inside job.

And it all starts with stillness. It starts with love. Stillness, love. That’s my experience. That’s my opinion. I wonder if you agree.

[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Stillness. And then I find that to be. It is much easier to experience the stillness when I’m not in a relationship.

Yes.

[00:26:02] Speaker A: There you go.

[00:26:06] Speaker B: Yes. So that’s another thing, right? Like this conditioning that we receive. Like, if you’re not dating, if you don’t have a boyfriend, girlfriend, something is wrong with you. Like for what, how long? How old are you? There is this thing.

There was a time. Well, let me think about it. Yeah. When I got married, I wanted to have a husband to start a children with. I mean, start a family with. But other than that, I actually don’t think I was in the need of wanting a boyfriend because people thought. But I know a lot of people do.

And I feel like that’s one of the examples that I’ve been partnered. I was married for 20 years and I have some partners, but I definitely don’t have the boyfriend or that type of partner.

And then there is actually, I really enjoy this and that there is definitely a benefit.

It’s not a benefit.

It’s more like, how do I call this?

Necessity.

This doesn’t mean that if you are a partnered in relationship, you cannot have this. But I don’t. But I feel like me as a person who have kind of adapted to be a married person and in order to adapt myself, suppressed myself, suppressed my feeling, my desires and then wants and not want. So in that context, I feel like it feels really good to be able to just really walk on myself, be with myself, be still with myself instead of asking someone to do that with me, which I think is an inside job.

[00:28:12] Speaker A: That’s right.

I want to turn this really practical for a moment. And I’m sure that you as well work on this with clients. But listen, we’re talking about relationships today. We’re talking about being authentic when it comes to the role that coupling or staying single plays in our personal growth and our spiritual development. And if you think, you know, what type of life you want, I want to be single or I want to be married. I want to be in an open relationship. I just want to date. Whatever it is. I want multiple partners, whatever the case is.

I wonder if, listeners, if you can ask yourself, do I know why I want what?

You know, this is such fertile soil to say, okay, I want to be married. Why do I want to be married? Let me just see myself clearly.

And here’s specifically how I will walk through it with clients. And Mariko, maybe you have other methods that you’d like to share. You know, it’s about saying, what are my values? And if you have not done values exercises for yourself yet, just go online, google it, and you can find lots of websites that have helpful articles or exercises on how to uncover what your values are. Spoiler alert. Your values are not things are not qualities, simply qualities that you respect. They are qualities that drive your subconscious response. They’re automatic reflexes. Okay? Everybody says, oh, my value is generosity or kindness. Okay, well, is your first reaction to situations generosity and kindness? If it’s not, that’s probably not your value. Maybe your value is adventure, or maybe your value is exploration. Or maybe your value is growth, or whatever the case. Okay, so do I know what my values are? And what are the fears that are subconsciously driving me? Am I scared that I’m not worthy? Am I scared that I’m not good enough? Am I scared that I’ll be abandoned?

Am I scared that life is going to pull the rug out from under me? And if these fears are playing roles in your life, then it is worth your time, listeners, to look at them with your open eyes and say, is there a correlation between my values and my fears and the type of relationship I want?

Not that you’re right. Not that you’re wrong. Let me just look. Is something pulling the strings behind the curtain that’s making me think I want x when if I were really free, I would want y? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:31:22] Speaker B: I love that. I love what you just said.

That’s a great approach. And I love that about the fear thing, because I find that I definitely feel like. And then I used that, the value thing, and then that’s actually when I became clear about that I was in a wrong relationship when I was married because the values were not aligned. But actually, your value. Mention of values really brings up a very good point where I was receiving so much advice about stay together.

Like, a prolonged marriage. Like a marriage is a failure if it ends. Like, the longer the better, right? So we have this conditioning constantly. So whomever I turn to, except for my coach, they come with this conditioning or underlying belief or the value that the. For marriage, longer the better, right? So all of the teaching I received, the great teachings to improve the marriage, improve whatever, always come, make it long, make it last long, that the better, that the longer the better.

But really taking a look at my values and comparing my then husband’s values, they were not aligned. And that was actually the moment where, oh, I actually am in a wrong relationship.

This is not aligned. This is why it’s not working.

So it is such a great point. And that you say that, and then it’s so important that people become crystal clear about what they value, what they really value as a person.

[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:33:35] Speaker B: And then to make sure that’s aligned with the partner.

And if it’s not aligned, I would say that it’s good that you found out about it and that you decide what you want to do with that.

[00:33:48] Speaker A: That’s right. Exactly. Yes.

Pivoting just a little bit. You and I talked about traditional male female roles as we were planning the episode. And this is not directly related to any type of sexual orientation. It’s larger than the topic of sexual orientation. But you talked about how there is such a missed opportunity for beauty when someone boxes themselves in to a traditional male role or a traditional female role. So if I’m a woman and I feel like I’m a naturally dominant person, I feel like I have to hide that and be submissive in order to be a real woman. Or if I’m a man, maybe I’m a naturally submissive man, but society tells me I’m defective, if that’s the case. So I have to always pretend to be a dominant man, or I’m failing at manhood. And I wonder if you have some thoughts on this beautiful, missed beauty that exists when we allow our authenticity to come through in our gender expression.

[00:35:01] Speaker B: Yes.

So what you just said, what you just summarized about the traits of human that is contrary to this society’s conditioning of the gender based roles, for whatever reason, that really hits me very close to my heart, because I myself identify as a very dominant and very masculine woman, but I’m also very feminine, but someone who was afraid to embrace my feminine because I thought that if I am too feminine, then I’m considered to be weak, inferior to men. And then if I wanted to be successful in the business world, that didn’t seem, like, advantageous for me. Right. So I hid that part intentionally all my life.

[00:36:07] Speaker A: You hid your feminine part, and you leaned into the dominant masculine part, and you hid the feminine part so that you would not put yourself at a disadvantage. Is that what you’re saying?

[00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I did that intentionally.

And I don’t think people felt that I am a dominant or a masculine woman particularly, but I don’t think they felt I am particularly feminine woman either. And I always kind of really like the idea that I’m an androgynous person who is highly masculine and highly feminine. I’ll just be honest that it was very difficult for me to be me as a woman, me as a woman, powerful woman, but not masculine powerful, but the feminine powerful, because I did not know what that means.

And also, I was very aware of the fact that, like I said, I never really felt like I was a typical woman growing up, even a typical girl had a lot of male friends and my entire life.

And at the same time, there are quite a few men who are just really not feeling identified as just dominant alpha male, even if they are not a submissive per se. There are some people who really identify as a submissive, but even if they don’t necessarily submissive per se, there is this masculine conditioning of, like, alpha male. And then if you’re not dominant or alpha, then you’re not man enough. There is a lot of stories like this, and I feel like we receive so many of these type of things. And then for me as a woman, a lot of women who are powerful in the business world or in a professional world, if we are standing out, then we get this thing about, oh, she’s bossy.

And I don’t think men get this description of being bossy.

[00:38:48] Speaker A: Right.

[00:38:49] Speaker B: It’s what women get.

And then a lot of women feel terrified of called intimidating. I get that a lot. Intimidating woman. And then I got that throughout my life. And again, I didn’t really think too much of it, but I know some women feel very.

Take that description very personally, and then they don’t feel comfortable about that. So this constant comparison of what a woman should be if you’re a woman, the constant comparison of what a man should be if you’re a man, whenever there is a gap between what we are fed, how we should be with a gender role, we kind of not explore that part because it’s uncomfortable.

And so we just don’t go there. And then it’s much easier to just kind of say, oh, I just kind of be like this, wear a skirt and be a girl.

But, yeah, so after I get a training, I got this formal training to be a dominatrix.

And then, so when I did this, what was incredible to me is that the change in me, and also I’m able to see the beauty in people that I didn’t see before, that it is not because it is not about, let’s say, the submissive men. Submissive men is more beautiful than not submissive men. I’m not saying it, but it’s really more about really knowing who the person is. And then if that person is submissive, then owning it.

[00:40:54] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:40:55] Speaker B: And then just specifically me experiencing submissive men and then receiving their devotion and love as a dominant woman.

I don’t know how to explain this experience.

That experience really taught me what I’m offering as a woman.

That before this training, before this understanding, I probably would have felt very uncomfortable. No, I’m not that beautiful. I’m not that powerful. I’m not that sexy. I don’t think I was aware of what I had.

[00:41:45] Speaker A: Right? Yes.

[00:41:46] Speaker B: But because of this training and an understanding and interacting with people who fully own the submissive parts, I was able to fully own my dominant part, which I couldn’t do in most of my life.

And I thought, oh, my God.

So that was an experience of very unexpected way of accessing that power by assuming it. Yes, I have this. Yes, I will take it. I will receive your devotion, and then I will receive your worship. This is not something I could ever imagine saying people worship.

[00:42:44] Speaker A: Even just verbalizing, that can be shocking in our.

[00:42:47] Speaker B: Yes.

I mean, three years ago, I cannot imagine saying something like this. People worshipping me.

[00:42:55] Speaker A: Right?

[00:42:56] Speaker B: No.

I would have felt very uncomfortable because I didn’t feel worthy of such a thing. But I do now. Yeah, but it’s not because I changed. It’s because I realized that I actually have these things.

[00:43:12] Speaker A: Yes. There you go.

You hold space for your entire self, right? Because no one is. Well, I won’t say no one, but very few people are only on one side of the coin, right? I’m not only dominant or only submissive. I’m not only masculine or only feminine. I’m not only desirous of being single or only desirous of being in a monogamous marriage, right? Most of us fall somewhere in the middle on these continua.

And I think it’s important to say, if I were to look at myself, if I were to look at myself, like, on the continuum of masculine energy and feminine energy, I might fall on the masculine side, but really around 60 out of a scale of 100. I’m not an 80 or 90% masculine energy person.

And I think it’s important to really say, okay, who am I? What makes me tick? What are my motivations? What are my fears? What drives me? And can I hold space to love? What drives me? And we all know the stories of politicians or other notable people who were caught in these compromising situations where they were getting their needs met. That was in a way, that was off brand for who they said they were. It’s painful when we will not accept who we are, what we are, what we need, and then we have to skulk around like a little weasel to secretly get our needs met and life will punish us when we’re not authentic.

[00:45:07] Speaker B: Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for saying that. And then I totally agree with that. And then that’s kind of when I kind of accidentally and then playfully put myself in a situation looking to these areas or my way of being or parts of myself that I never considered for myself, that’s when I realized that I was actually being punished. Using your words. Yeah, for not using the power that I have so abundantly.

But hey, I didn’t know. I didn’t know. Being myself and then really knowing who I am and expressing myself gives me.

Not like hiding or just secretly judging about it.

[00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that’s it.

I think this has been such an interesting conversation, especially considering how rarely we’re willing to talk about things like this out in the open. So I want to thank you for bringing that gift to refractive and for sharing your wisdom and experience with us. If listeners want to learn more about what you do, how you help individuals live authentically, how can they learn more about you?

[00:46:42] Speaker B: Well, yes, thank you for asking. So I do a one on one coaching and then sometimes I create some group programs and workshops.

You can get more information about my work on my website.

So it’s www.mistressmarico.com.

And also I post quite a bit. Well, not quite a bit. I’m going to post more regularly on my instagram that my Instagram handle is mistressmarico.

[00:47:18] Speaker A: Okay, great. And that’s m as in Mary Ariko.

[00:47:24] Speaker B: Yes.

[00:47:25] Speaker A: Excellent. Thank you so much. What a joy to have you with me today. Thank you for that.

[00:47:30] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, everyone.

[00:47:33] Speaker A: As you go out in your day and you meet all sorts of people who are just doing the best they can, I hope you can remember to aim your light. Take care.

You’ve been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you found today’s content uplifting, if you think it might make somebody’s day better, give it a share on social media, click like subscribe. All those things help to expand this podcast availability to new audiences. I’m a speaker, a coach, and a facilitator based out of Washington, DC, but I travel a lot. If you think I can be of service to you or to your organization, help people get unstuck or move into their authentic power, shoot me an email. My email address is re***************@***il.com. Take care. Thanks for listening and aim your light.

For similarly themed content, try the following episodes: Whose Expectations Are You Trying to Meet? and Making Peace with Your Dark Side.

You can find Eden’s Book “Luminous Darkness” with a quick online search, it is a delight to read. You can learn more about Eden at www.DeborahEdenTull.com or at instagram.com/MindfulLivingRevolution.

To reach host Johnny Guidry for spiritual coaching, speaking engagements, or with any questions, send an email to Re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

Thanks for listening and always remember: aim your light!

You can find Dr G’s book, Rejection Junkies online at his website, www.RejectionJunkies.com. While you’re there, you can also take the free quiz “Are You a Rejection Junkie” and learn more about how Dr G helps people break free from painful emotional patterns.

To contact host Johnny G for speaking, coaching, or just to ask questions or suggest topics, email him at Re***************@***il.com or at www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly themed episodes, try Spiritual Healing through Toxic Relationships or A Modern Look at the Sermon on the Mount with Rev Rich Tafel.

For support on your spiritual journey, speaking engagements, or other questions, contact us at Re***************@***il.com.

Learn more about host Johnny Guidry at www.RefractiveCoaching.com or www.RefractivePodcast.com

Aim your light.

In this episode, Alan talks about his journey through life challenges and interpersonal relationships that led to struggles with how he saw himself. He shares how he has been able to heal those wounds and how to find the power to shift out of that painful way of life.

To contact Alan with questions, to find his book, or to inquire into how he helps people live a more loving life, visit his website: www.UncommonSensing.com

To contact host Johnny Guidry with questions or to inquire on coaching or speaking engagements, email him at Re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com

For similarly themed content, try the following episodes: Telling Yourself the Truth; Surrender to Greatness; or Free Yourself from Limiting Beliefs

We end every episode of Refractive with the same phrase: “aim your light.” What does that mean? Can you enhance the experience of your fellows by simply entering the room? You absolutely can- and it’s not difficult at all. This episode reviews some practical methods for maintaining a natural lightness of energy and cleansing and clearing any heavy energy that you might be carrying.

For some more great ideas on managing your energy, check out this post from YogaBasics.com: https://www.yogabasics.com/connect/yoga-blog/clear-negative-energy/

For similarly themed content, try these other episodes from Refractive: Energy Work to Support Your Goals, and All About Reiki.

To contact host Johnny Guidry for questions, coaching support, or feedback, email him at Re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

Transcript follows (please excuse any autotranscription software errors):

Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try. Day after day, you pretend you don’t hear calling. Or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse. But it’s there ready for you. And it will wait for you as long as you need. My name is Johnny G.

And I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive. Hello, friends, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G. Today I want to talk about the topic of how to manage our energy. What does that even mean? What does it mean to manage my energy well?

Are there people in your life that you know that always seem to have what you would call as a good energy? There are people that it just feels good to be around. Why is that? Why are there some people who feel energizing or comforting to be around and there are other people who might feel taxing or draining to be around?

This is really at the core of what today’s topic is. I want to be able to show up in the world and have people feel that they are better because they crossed paths with me. Whether that’s through this podcast, whether that’s through the clients that I work with one on one who are trying to change their lives, whether that is the random clerk or cashier that I come across in a store.

This is really important to me. It’s a major part of how I try to live today. It’s not something that I do accidentally. It’s something that I try to do intentionally every day. And so I want to focus on this idea of having good energy. How do you get good energy? How did I get what I would call good energy?

And really, with that, I don’t intend to I don’t intend to brag or inflate my ego. But what I can say is that I get complimented on my energy a lot. I mean, certainly every week, sometimes several times a week, strangers, cashiers at CVS or someone today. I hadn’t seen this person in a long time and we crossed paths today.

And he told me that my energy was invigorating to him. That’s literally what someone told me an hour and a half ago. And it’s something that I value very, very much. I take it as a goal post that I’m doing something correct, that I am living my life in a wholesome, nurturing, healthy way. What I find is that the more I direct my living in a manner that is consistent with my values, the more that I live in a way that enhances love around me, meaning I don’t engage in garbage food.

I don’t engage in garbage activities that drag my my energy down. The more I approach actively soak myself in love through non fear based self-care, through wholesome activities, through pursuing joy, through spending time with people that I like being around. The more I do that, the more people notice, the more people verbally comment on my energy. It’s incredible.

I just I love it. I love it. I love it. And I am, as I often say in these episodes, I am not an enlightened being. I don’t live in a state of consistent enlightenment. And so what that means is sometimes I do engage in behaviors that aren’t so what’s the right word? I engage in behaviors that might bring my energy down.

Sometimes I do watch trashy TV. Sometimes I do let my lust or other instincts get the better of me. And when I do, people stop commenting on the light that I put out. So I base this not just on an idea, I base this on what I have observed. And I have a feeling that if you are listening to this podcast, you care about the energy you put out.

You care about how other people feel when they are around you. And so I want to share what I have learned on my path. Now, listen, I am not some guru. I don’t know anything about anything. There’s a there’s speaking of TV that brings my energy down. There’s that show Ozark and I watched it even though it was so heavy.

And there’s this character, Ruth, and she has a particular quote that I’m not going to say, but it makes me laugh. She says, I don’t know, blank about blank. It’s hilarious. And so when it comes to this stuff, I don’t know, blank about blank. All I can tell you is what I have experienced and what I have observed.

I also want to ask before we get into the content today, I want to ask if you have not subscribed to this show. I ask that you actually click the subscribe button on whatever podcast platform you use. If you have not left a rating and a review of this show, I ask that you do that. Of course, if that’s not something you feel like doing, I, I totally respect it.

But the more people that subscribe and the more people that leave reviews. It has nothing to do with money. I don’t get a dollar from this, but the podcast platforms take the podcast more seriously when they find that listeners like it. So reviews make a big difference in how podcast platforms might suggest my show to people who are doing searches for new podcast to listen to.

So I thank you in advance. Please leave a review. Please leave a star rating and please subscribe if you feel inspired to do so. It is how you can it how you can support this so that more people encounter the messages of these episodes. Let’s move right into energy management and just some background info. Now, you might hear this referred to sometimes as energy hygiene.

If we’re talking about how to cleanse our energy, how to manage what we put out in the world. I also want to address a concern that some of you might have if you come from a traditional religious background. I can tell you, because I went to Catholic school for kindergarten through 12th grade and I was taught a lot of Catholic dogma and tradition, and there was always warnings and concerns about the occult.

I recognize that a lot of you listening might come from a more traditional Christian background or maybe from a muslim background or from another religious faith that warns against engaging in a cult. But I want to also remind and I’m going to use Christian examples because that’s my background, that Christians do an awful lot of energy cleansing and energy management.

And I’m going to go through a list of traditions, behaviors, features of worship that are exactly intended to cleanse our energy. So my point is to say that what I’m encouraging you to do in this episode is not intended to be a cult behavior. What I’m encouraging you to do is to manage the energy you put out, and it all comes from intentions.

And some of the behaviors that we do are simply vehicles to channel our intentions. Right. When I light a candle, it is an act that is intended to focus my to focus my intention. If a priest likes incense in the mass, it is an act intended to focus the energy of that priest in this symbolic act. It’s all about directing energy.

So here we go. In Christianity, specifically in Catholicism, a part of the mass is that the priest washes his hands. Now, if you’ve ever watched it, there’s no soap. There’s none of that happening. It’s not a real washing of the hands. It is a symbolic sprinkling of water on the hands that is meant to be a ritualistic cleansing.

It is a it is an energetic cleansing. It is a symbolic cleansing. There’s the wearing of white garments by a priest underneath the charitable. The charitable is that big, colorful poncho looking garment. But underneath all priests wear a white garment. It is a an energy cleansing intention. It is a visual representation of the purity inside of the priest.

There is then these concepts of incense using oils, oils to anoint so many of the Christian sacraments and the Catholic sacraments use oils to anoint. There’s the idea of using ashes, which is not only a part of Catholicism, but other sects of Christianity. There’s holy water, blessing of holy water and sprinkling it on the crowd or anointing yourself with holy water.

All of these are meant to be visual representations to channel your energy into cleansing your spirit. That’s what this is about. That’s what we’re doing. We are setting intentions and channeling our energy to ask the Holy Spirit to cleanse us before we engage in some sort of act, whether it’s a mass or whether it’s a worship or whether it’s any other type of situation.

There’s the meditation on holy mysteries. So in Catholicism again, which is my particular area of some expertise. There’s the Rosary where each decade of the rosary focuses on some other holy mystery. And so and then by chanting, saying the same words over and over and over and over again, we cleanse our energy, we cleanse our brain, we cleanse our thoughts, and we prepare ourselves to receive the grace of God.

That’s the intention of saying the rosary. The intention of saying the rosary is not necessarily to pray for my neighbor who is having surgery tomorrow. The intention of praying for the rosary is to cleanse my thoughts and to cleanse my spirit of the worldly heaviness. And I do that through chanting and incantation and through symbology, iconography. There’s the calling on of the Holy Spirit, which is something a priest does many times during any mass, any Sunday.

The calling on of this this spirit guide to come down and to support us, to cleanse us, to help us make ourselves clean. In fact, there is a scripture quote during the mass where we say, and I won’t go into the origin of the quote, it’s from it’s from the New Testaments, from one of the gospels. Lord, I have not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.

In other words, cleanse me, cleanse me. I’m inviting you to help me heal. I’m inviting you to help me cleanse. There’s then the act of confession. The act of confession is not just a Christian act right there. There is a holy holiday in Judaism where you are confessing to wipe clean your year and start the year fresh. There is, of course, in Christianity, there are many, many different religious observations that involve confession.

The purpose of confession is to cleanse yourself, to cleanse your energy, to cleanse your spirit. That’s what this is about, right? It’s directing your energy. It’s managing your spirit there. My mother, in fact, had her local priest come in to her home and bless it. So blessing of a space. Blessing of a home. Right. So what what is the purpose of blessing of a home?

It is to wrap it in protection. It is to cleanse it from lower or heavier energies. That’s what this is about, Right. And so this is something that’s very real. It’s done today. It was done by my mother two days ago. There is fasting, which we know is not only done in Christianity, it’s done in Islam, it’s done in Judaism.

There is also it’s a fasting through all sorts of different religious observations. There’s fasting and Buddhism. And so all of this by denying a cleansing the body, voiding the body of food, we open ourselves up to to spiritual reception, to gifts, to a higher vibration. So this is a form of preparing ourselves, right? That’s why historically Catholics would not eat meat on during Lent because it was meant as a purification of the body in preparation for Easter, in preparation to celebrate, to welcome in the celebration of the resurrection of Christ.

That was the intention behind the fasting. Why do we give something up for Lent again? It’s an act of spiritual purification. This is energy management. This is energy hygiene. There is Jesus who went out into the desert for 40 days to prepare himself before his ministry kicked off in earnest. And so that again, that was that was that an act of physical cleansing?

That was an act of spiritual cleansing. There are silent retreats that people go on all the time. It is meant to be an act of spiritual cleansing and energy management. All of these are examples of Christianity using energy management to purify our spirit, purify our energy, and prepare us to better participate in the spiritual life. That’s what we’re talking about today.

So thank you for bearing with me as I went through this. I just want to put you at ease. I’m not asking you to engage in some sort of occult practice that is at odds. I’m asking you to go inside yourself and find out where am I inviting heaviness into my life, into my spirit, into my energy? Where am I inviting in the heaviness?

And can I proactively reverse that trend? That’s what we’re talking about today. So for this second half of the episode, I want to talk about simple ways to manage your energy. One of the first things that I’d like to reference. I first heard this from Eckhart Tolle, who is wildly famous. So of course, many of you may know more about Eckhart Tolle than I myself do.

And in his book, in one of his books, he talks about if you want to feel your energy body, if you want to feel your spirit, then just look at your hand. Look at your hand. And I want to invite all of you as you’re listening to just relax. Let’s relax for a second. If there’s any tension in your body, maybe you’re holding tension in your jaw or your shoulders.

You know, I clench my my pelvic muscles a lot without realizing it. So just feel. Are you holding any tension? Let’s just let it go. Just imagine all parts of your body just softening, relaxing a little bit, and then I like to do it with my eyes closed. I think it’s better. I think it’s easier this way. So I’m going to invite you to just close your eyes, and I want you to direct your sensory attention, your feeling, your sense of feeling into your hand.

And what I want you to do is I want you to kind of like maybe your hand is resting on your leg or on a table or on the arm of a chair. Can you feel the textures of whatever your hand is resting on? Now I want to challenge you. Can you feel the air around your hand? And I don’t mean wind.

I don’t mean the motion of wind. But can you just feel maybe the coolness of the air on the back of your hand?

Take a second. You can feel what your fingertips are touching. But can you feel what the back of your hand is touching, which is air?

What does it feel like?

Trust me, I’m going somewhere with this. I promise.

Now, I’d like you to feel through your entire hand. Can you feel if you sense inside your hand? Can you feel any type of maybe a slight tingling or a slight buzzing inside of your hand? Just some sort of subtle sensation.

This might take you a few seconds if you haven’t done this. So I’m going to be quiet for maybe five or 10 seconds. And I just want you to feel. Just focus in. Bring your attention to the inside of your hand. And can you feel any sensation of either movement or energy or buzzing or vibration?

If you haven’t, you might want to just press pause and just try. It might take a couple of minutes. This is now. This is a skill that we can learn. And there’s a reason that I’m having you do this actually says this is this is a part of your energy body. If you were able to feel that now, I want you to pick one of your feet.

And I want you to just feel into your foot. What are the sensations that you can observe in your foot? Just feel it. And then I’d like you to feel inside your foot. Sense inside your foot. You have nerves all through your foot. So I want you to actually intentionally bring your attention to these nerves. And can you feel any type of just a subtle, energetic feeling inside of your foot?

All right. Now what I’d like you to do is I would like you if you feel that that energy inside your foot. I would like you to direct that energy to move up your ankle, up your leg, through your torso, through your chest. Just feel it. It’s almost like a big, gentle jellyfish, just like a big bubble of energy that you can just feel if you you can direct it to move.

And this bubble of sensation, for me, it feels like it might be about ten inches, you know, eight or ten inches in circumference or so. And I just feel it moving through my through my torso, through my chest. I can feel it as it moves into my shoulder. I can feel kind of like the tingling in my shoulder.

Now. And I just move it down my arm into that same hand that I sensed into a moment ago. And now I sense my hand with that slight buzzing. Can you feel it?

Okay, so now I want to bring you to the next level. I want you if you can feel your hand buzzing. That’s where we left the energy. You don’t have to move at this time. I just want you to feel the energy in your hand. And I also want you to feel the energy in your foot at the same time.

Can you feel that slight tingle in your foot as well as the slight tingle in your hand at the same time?

This is a little bit more difficult to do. It might take practice or I’m going to give you another five or 10 seconds. All right. If you weren’t successful in feeling both your foot and your hand at the same time. I encourage you to practice this. Again, it’s a skill that you can build. The reason that I have you engage in this exercise is that directing your energy is as simple as feeling.

That kind of feeling, that sensation and moving it. Sometimes I direct energy into my body, like if I sense that someone that I’m talking to is is being loving towards me, I might actually I don’t know the right word. I guess. Suck in the energy of love from that person. It’s like receiving. It’s like it’s like opening up to receive the love of that person.

And sometimes when I’m with someone and I feel this urge to pour out my love, I actually beam my love from my chest to the other person. It’s like a solid column of light that beams from me to that person. This is me managing, directing my energy.

The next step on top of this, I personally like to use the the the imagery of my chakras. I’m. I use the chakras because it resonates with me. So I want to talk about cleansing the chakras and the reason I do this is because it feels good. It actually gives a positive sensation and I need to be able to direct my energy by doing it, which is why I had you feel your hand and had you feel your foot and had you feel both at the same time because it requires you to direct your energy in order to kind of cleanse your energy centers.

Now, chakra is just that. It’s an energy center in your body. And so there are seven chakras within the body. There are other chakras that extend above and below the body. And there are many, many, many other chakras and smaller chakras, energy vortexes and things that through other. But there are seven main chakras. Each chakra corresponds to a color of the traditional human spectrum of light.

So we start with red and red chakra is in your base. It’s right at the bottom of your spine and the color associated with it is red. And so when I want to manage my energy, if I want to have good energy, every once in a while, I’ll just be lying in bed or and I’ll be like, Oh, I want to make sure that I feel like I cleanse my energy that I like.

I’m only having good energy flowing through. And I’ll, I’ll imagine my, my chakra, that red chakra down by the base of my spine. And what I do is like, I imagine it like a large, clear gemstone and, and with little bits of cloudiness in, I just imagine the cloudiness fading out and it’s left with just sparkling clarity so that if I were to shine a light through that big gemstone, there would be nothing inside the gemstone to refract the light.

This is why I call the podcast refractive. So by cleansing that and all of this is just in my imagination, right? Is it real? Is there is that part of my body really a red energy? Who knows? I don’t know. I don’t know this. I’m not even sure if I believe that. I don’t know. What I’m saying is that this is an energetic practice that feels good.

It makes me feel lighter after I do it. It’s relatively easy and I get results from it. So, again, I’m not asking you to believe anything I’m saying. This is one method for cleaning your energy. So I imagine the red chakra, I imagine that it begins to sparkle with extreme clarity and I imagine that the glow of it expands far and wide.

It just shines out almost like a lighthouse in all directions from that part of my body.

Then I move up to my bellybutton and it just inside my torso, around my belly button is the orange chakra. And again, I imagine a an orange gemstone maybe the size of a grapefruit. I don’t know, a softball. And it’s a little cloudy. And what I do is I just imagine all of the impurities inside that gemstone fading out.

And what’s left is brilliant, sparkling orange clarity that shine out brightly like a lighthouse in all directions. So right now I have brilliant red and brilliant orange shining out for me. I move my attention up to my solar plexus. This is the area just behind the bottom of my ribs in there, yellow. And you pick whatever shade of these colors that you like the best.

Maybe your red has a tinge of purple to it, or maybe it has a tinge of orange. You know, for my yellow eye, I use kind of like a canary yellow. That’s my favorite. And I imagine this big gemstone kind of like a, you know, just a big, beautiful yellow diamond. And it’s a little cloudy. And I visualize it becomes very clear light passing through it.

It’s no interruption, it sparkles. And yellow light spills out for me in all directions, like a bright beacon. I move up to the center of my chest, around my heart, my lungs. And there I have the green chakra and I like to imagine the same green that you see in a rainbow. You know, that very, very vivid green.

It’s almost like the green of a really clear emerald. And there’s a little bit of cloudiness in that big gemstone. And I just clarify it. And right now I have an intense glowing red, orange, yellow and now green beacon of light that directs in 360 degrees all around me. I move up to my throat and there is my blue chakra.

And this blue chakra, it’s the color of blue again that you think of from a rainbow. It’s like a an electric blue. It’s an electric blue. It’s like a bright. It’s almost like a neon sky blue. And that that chakra just in my throat. It’s a little cloudy and I see the cloudiness just fade away and it becomes intensely bright, sparkling and clear, shining out in all directions.

I move up to the middle of my head, just kind of behind the eyes. In there I have an indigo chakra, and I didn’t know what Indigo was, but Indigo is actually it is a blue. It’s a deep blue and has just a hint of kind of like a purple to it. It’s a very, very, very rich blue with just a it’s like cobalt blue that has a hint of purple in there.

I have this big gemstone of that color and I’m just letting the cloudiness escape, leaving nothing but perfect clarity. And with all the others, it shines out. It radiates out intense light. And then lastly, just at the very tiptop of my skull, I have the violet chakra Violet, a soft purple, and I let the cloudiness fade away. And what’s left is the most beautiful amethyst color is crystal clear, and that violet light shines brightly in all directions.

Oh, and with just something as simple as that visualization, you have cleansed the energy in your seven energy centers. I don’t know if you feel better, but I immediately feel better. I feel better right now. And I was feeling good before this. And I feel, I don’t know, I feel healthier, I feel empowered. So let’s move on some more ways of cleaning your energy.

There’s just a few left that I’d like to share. Setting intentions is probably the most powerful thing you can do when it comes to managing your energy, to putting out good energy. So there’s a couple of ways. Number one, I like to have a morning routine, and in that morning routine, I think about my day. I think about what’s going to happen.

I ask for guidance that throughout the day I might be shown the right thing to do so that I can be of maximum service. I ask for guidance in any moments of doubt or confusion that I might be just nudged in the right direction. And if you don’t believe in God, that’s okay. You can set the intention for your intuition to give you guidance.

I asked to be shown how to best serve others. I asked that my thoughts. I asked that I get support in clearing my thoughts of wrong motives. When I say wrong motives, I mean dishonesty, self-pity, making myself of the victim or the center selfishness, you know. And some people, just like a priest does during the mass, also in their morning routines, like to light a candle and just enjoy, just sit in the peace of watching the flame.

Maybe there’s a meditation that like that you might like to do, or a chant, maybe there’s a lighting of some sort of incense or a scented candle. All of these are ways that you can cleanse your energy and start your day on a strong foot. I mentioned that using your intention is one of the most powerful things you can do.

But one of the ways that I proactively use my energy with other people, right? So not only do I try to clean my energy and have nice, clean, bright energy around me, but when I’m with another person, I proactively send them my energy. And sometimes it’s through a visualization like I might actually. I mentioned earlier that I kind of send out a column of light of love from me to them, that’s me directing my energy.

There’s a writer that I really like. She’s a spiritual writer named Caroline Macy. She talks about sending like a a host, like a just like a a sphere, a small sphere of just white light from you to them. It’s just a an offering of love. Sometimes I just use eye contact. I’ll make eye contact with someone who doesn’t need to be long eye contact.

And during that, I’m thinking, I’m sending you love or I love you, I love you. And I just look at them and just think that and that is sending that energy to them. It is a beautiful, beautiful way to interact with other people. And if you want people to respond well, to you, man, look at them and just think, I love you.

I love you for who you are. I don’t need you to be different than you are. I don’t need you to respond differently. I just love you and watch how people open up another tool that I use to cleanse myself when I’m feeling heavy. Because even though I do these things, it doesn’t mean that I always feel like when I feel heavy, I have a way to address that.

So if I find myself in a funk for some reason, sometimes it just sneaks up on me. I imagine that. I imagine my whole body right I sense into my whole body. Remember, we sense into into our hands and our but I sense into my whole body. It’s sometimes it takes me like 30 seconds to actually feel the tingling all over.

But I feel it from the tip of my head to the bottom of my toes. And then I test it out. Can I feel it in my finger? Am I, am I fingernail? Can I feel it right in the bottom of my butt when it’s on the chair? Can I feel it? Can I feel my nipple Right? Can I feel the tip of my nose?

Can I feel it all Tingle And when I have when I can feel that life, energy all over, all over. Then I just imagine this gray mist just leaving me, leaving that energy field and that gray mist is how I see the funk, the heaviness. And as that gray mist just evaporates off me, almost like. Like your breath on a cold day as it just leaves, I release it back.

I don’t hate that gray mist. I love it. Thank you for teaching me what you’ve taught me. And I release whatever can be released back to the creator. Thank you for this lesson. I offer this back to you. And I just, like, I just sit there in the visualization until there’s no more mist coming off of me. And what’s left just like that chakra clearing exercise.

What’s left is just crystal clarity. And as you probably know, when you take all of the the colors of visible light and you layer them on top of one another, you get white light. And so as the mist finishes leaving me, I imagine that my entire body becomes bright, bright, bright white light. And I just glow. I glow so strong that you could see me from the moon.

You could see a pinprick of white light from from, from space. It’s just beautiful, pristine, perfect, blindingly lovely white light coming out of me. And I feel better. And people notice. People notice sometimes when I’m in a situation that’s uncomfortable, maybe I’ll be on the subway and two people will get in an argument. I, I imagine that there’s a bubble around the whole subway car, and I just then I just pull the mist out of the subway car the same way that the mist evaporated off my body.

I visualize a bubble of light around the subway car, and I just pull proactively the mist out of the subway car. And this is my gift to the people. They’re in the car with me that their fear because the people around the two arguing individuals are uncomfortable. Right. They might be uncomfortable right now. And so let’s just pull that fear out.

Let’s just let’s just let that heaviness, whatever can be released, let’s let it release. And I just use the power of my white light and my love to just send peace to everyone, not just the two people who are arguing, but everyone, all of us. And it’s the way that I offer my energetic gift to all of the people around me in that car.

You know, I end every episode with the words Aim your light. And I hope that you now understand what I mean when I say aim your light. Because if you want to contribute to the world, if you want to be a light in the world, you can expand your impact by aiming, by being proactive about the energy you put out to others.

It’s about shining as brightly as you can, and that is your gift. That is your service to the world. And when you do it, your life will feel better. That’s my experience. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode today. Thank you for tuning in. And as always, my friends, aim your light. Take care. You’ve been listening to Refractive podcast and this is Johnny G.

If you found today’s content uplifting, if you think it might make somebody day better, give it a share on social media, click like Subscribe. All those things helped to expand this podcast availability to new audiences. I’m a speaker, a coach, and facilitator based out of Washington DC, but I travel a lot. If you think I can be of service to you or to your organization, help people get unstuck or move into their authentic power, shoot me an email.

My email address is Re***************@***il.com. Take care. Thanks for listening and aim your light.

Magnificence is our birthright. The illusion of struggle, expectations, status, and what’s “fair” causes us to actually fight against our own greatness as we desperately seek to control our existence. We can begin to see life as a series of threats and hardships. The truth is: something IS hurting us, and it’s US. The self is the only opponent powerful enough to drag us down. And when we put down the weapon and realize that we were fighting shadows, our true power begins to manifest and doors swing open.

In this episode of Refractive Johnny G looks into the saga of our battles through examples of interpersonal relationships, the epidemic of shame, and growth lessons from the allegory of Adam and Eve’s fall from grace. Are you ready to surrender? Because despite our best efforts, while we can temporarily blind ourselves to it, our magnificence will win in the end.

For coaching services or speaking engagements, contact host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com

For similarly themed content, try these other episodes: You Already Know, You Already Are and Making Peace with Our Dark Side

More information on living your most authentic life is found at RefractiveCoaching.com and RefractivePodcast.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Ever since you can remember you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try. Day after day you pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you as long as you need. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.

Good afternoon everybody. This is Johnny G and welcome to Refractive.  I’m sitting here next to a scented candle that I really love in my favorite sweatshirt on a comfortable chair and I just don’t know if life gets better than this. There’s so much joy in these little moments that surround me and I can’t speak for other people, I certainly hope that there are other people who feel the way I do, but you know, I’m sitting here and I just can’t believe that this is what qualifies as a great life for me. If you would’ve asked me, I mean not even a long time ago, just a year ago, I had a very different answer for what I think I would have wanted. But the ability to sit here on a weekday afternoon, not have to step into a job that I don’t want to do, in comfortable clothes with candles and a nice beverage anda beautiful place to sit. You know, this is, I don’t know, maybe people have known about this for a long time, but this is groundbreaking to me and I am just so grateful. I am grateful that this is where I’ve ended up. Anyway, that is definitely not the topic of today’s episode. We are looking at the concept of surrendering to your greatness.  

This was a topic that I dealt into in some detail recently at a workshop that I did and I thought it would really be a prime for this podcast, so I hope you enjoy it. I got a lot of good feedback. I still have some people who were in the workshop who are in contact with me arranging follow ups. So I think it was effective and impactful. And so I’m delighted to share it with you here on the Refractive podcast. In the recovery community where I have roots, as well as in other spiritual aspects, there is a seeming paradox that in order to find power you must stop fighting. In the 12 steps we call it surrendering your will. But the idea is that the fighting is what we’ve done our whole life. We’ve tried to fix things, we’ve tried to manage the circumstances around us and we’ve only ended up deeper in misery and conflict and frustration.  

So there is another way of looking at the tough stuff in life. And by just surrendering, stepping into flow, you are able to tap into power that’s not available to you when you are in the grips of a fight. So I took this from a slightly different angle because in my beliefs, I believe that I was created, my soul, my spirit was created by source. It is the same material as source. When I say source, that’s my word for God, higher power, Supreme being, Supreme intelligence, however you like to call it. I believe that I am like a cup full of the ocean. That is my definition of God. And that while I as a small portion of the overall Source energy, I do not equal Source. I am not God, but I am made of the exact same matter as God. And my substance is the same as God. So the same way that a cup of water out of the ocean is not the ocean yet it is exactly the ocean at the same time. That’s how I view my relationship from my soul. In my very being is all the glory and power and mystery and loveliness and light and love of God, that is what I believe I am made of. That is what I see as my birthright. So if my birthright is all of the magnificence of the glory of the universe, then the need to fight to have a barely acceptable quality of life is illusion. That is at its core at odds with my belief that I am of the same stuff as the Supreme being, and so when I want to put my life on the right track to have a successful career, two, contribute to society, to express love and receive love, to achieve whatever definitions of success I hope for in my life. There is this fallacy that I have to fight and scrounge and struggle in order to be great. In reality, I am greatness itself, you our greatness itself, that is the state of entry into this life experience that we have. It’s not something we earn through good deeds. It’s not something we earn through piety. We are simply greatness. We are magnificence itself. We are the personification of magnificence, so how can it be that we have to fight just to be mediocre? That is the point that I closely examined in saying, I’m going to flip the script on this. I’m going to say that the fighting I’m doing is not to be great–the fighting I’m doing is to stay out of my greatness. And as I looked more closely into this concept, this really carried a lot of weight for me. And it seemed to make sense.  

You may or may not agree with this primary point that I’m making, and that’s okay because I believe that even if you see this from a different angle, maybe you don’t believe were made from the same stuff as God. Maybe you don’t believe you are a cup full of the ocean, you might see this differently. That’s okay. My point is that we are struggling to be what we simply are, and that when we stop directing our energy to the struggle, we are free to flourish. This applies to all aspects of our life.  

I want to start this by, I’m going to my absolute favorite quote in the Bible. Now, I told you in last episode that I am not a Christian and that is the truth. But I do think that there are stories and allegories that have some deep spiritual wisdom. So I just say that because there are many people in my life who become suspicious when they hear someone talk about the Bible: that they’re trying to be roped in and converted. And I want to promise you that that is not my goal. I want to use a particular story in the Bible for the spiritual message that is contained in its allegory. So that really is my goal. So back to my point was this amazing quote. It’s my favorite quote in the entire Bible, and it is Genesis 3:11 when God is talking to Adam and Eve and he says, “Who told you that you were naked?”

I love this, this passage because there’s so much richness to this experience that’s being explained. So, for those of you who may not be as well versed in the Genesis story, the serpent had convinced Eve that she should go against God’s instructions and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She then went to Adam and told Adam that the serpent had given her information that God had not been fully truthful and that it was okay to eat of this fruit and that it would have a positive impact. And as they ate from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they began to see the world differently. And one of the ways that this immediately manifested was they felt ashamed for being naked. So according to this story, at one point in time, Adam and Eve were blissfully ignorant of their nakedness, just like any animal in nature. They felt no shame, no awareness. The idea of nakedness wasn’t even a concept. So it certainly wasn’t a concern or a worry. However, the minute that they put their will ahead of the plans that they’re creator had laid out for them, the concept of shame manifested in this idea of being embarrassed of my nakedness. So let’s think about this in modern terms. Maybe you’ve seen this show Naked and Afraid. It’s a reality show where people are dropped in harsh wilderness and they’re naked and they have no resources and there are cameras that film them as they survive. Okay. In this reality show, as in the garden of Eden, there is no way to manufacture clothing. You have leaves and twigs and bark and that’s about it. So the next step for Adam and Eve as they feel this shame is they decide to take leaves and make clothing out of it. So one second, there’s no awareness of being naked. It’s not a concern. It is not troublesome at all. The next second where no problem once existed, there’s shame felt by Adam and Eve was so severe that they are now desperately trying to manufacture coverings out of leaves. How dramatic must this shame be and how unnecessary was this shame? Because one second before there was no concern, then there was a mind-created concern that literally didn’t exist before, that was now all consuming. So as they hear God approaching, Genesis says they hide and God says, where are you?  And Adam and Eve say, well, we heard you coming and we were naked and we didn’t want you to see us like that. So we hid. And this is where God says, who told you that you are naked? Because this was a concept that was not even in existence before this. So there are a few lessons to learn here. Number one, we truly do create our own reality. When we believe something is important, it becomes important. We have this manifest story, power to create scenarios. It is a beautiful, amazing part of the human existence. We get to choose what matters. And there is literally no other authority that gets to fight with us. We choose what is important and we make it so they decided the need for clothes was essential. And it was. So number two, this was the first instance of shame in human creation according to the Bible.  So, this launch of the concept of shame means that the lesson for Adam and Eve was that when you step out of the grand design, the glory and the magnificence of the birthright that you were given, when you reject it and step away from that, here comes shame, hurt, pain, suffering. These are the lessons that I take from this, uh, from this writing and I apply it to my current day because I can absolutely give you examples where I decided to become an architect for circumstances and situations that were around me. And as I did that, I created pain, suffering, shame, embarrassment, frustration, anger, conflict. In fact, again, I can’t speak for other people. I have perceptions that I hold on to, what I see other people go through, but I’ll just speak for myself. It’s almost always painful when I try, when I have an agenda, it’s almost always painful when I choose how something needs to be.  And I pull a Jean-Luc Picard and make it so. I don’t know if you feel that way, but my plans, my architected desires, when they are not aligned with the flow of the universe, they hurt. And there are whole aspects of my life that are dotted with pain along the way because I had to have X, Y, Z. I needed this career. I needed this neighborhood. I needed this person in my life. I needed to look and feel this way. I needed to be respected in this way. That’s a really valuable lesson for me, that I pull from that writing. So let’s tie this back to what we’re talking about, surrendering to our greatness. That’s after all the main concept of today’s episode in order to surrender to the greatness. That means that we are fighting against the greatness. And I’d love to ask you, uh, please feel free to email

Me at jo****@****************ng.com.  Feel free to send me an email. I’d love to hear how you fight against your own greatness. Or maybe you don’t have an example at the moment, but stop. Press pause on this podcast and think about where have you fought against your greatness? Where have you decided to fight to stay out of the magnificence that you were born to enjoy? I think of situations my friends have told me about how they no longer felt that the relationship they were in was nourishing and satisfying. But the idea of starting over or being alone was painful or the idea of “wasting” all the time and effort they put into this relationship made walking away an unacceptable choice. And so instead of the life of magnificence that is the birthright, there is fear that I’m going to waste my effort. I’m going to look like a fool.  

I’m going to feel alone. I’m never going to be loved again. I’m not enough in society if I don’t have a partner who’s gonna wipe my behind when I’m 90 years old and am incapable of self care. These fearful ideas cause us to fight every signal that’s inside of us to walk away lovingly from the situation XYZ. Just walk away lovingly. Follow your heart, follow your guidance. I’m telling you to walk away. I’m telling you to love yourself enough to say no and walk away. But we fight. Oh, I must be wrong. No, that can’t be right. That can’t be the correct guidance I have. That can’t be true. That doesn’t make any sense. We love each other. He loves me. I love her. It can’t be right to walk away. Okay. Well the good news is we each get to choose what’s “right.” There’s no one to enforce that. It’s part of the human experience. We decide what matters and um, no one’s gonna. No one’s going to force you. So if that is what your insides tell you is best for you, then you should do it. 

I have a similar situation. When we hang out. It just doesn’t feel good any more. And I don’t understand why- I don’t. I’ve really tried to understand what, what is it that’s changed with my relationship with this person? Why doesn’t it feel good to spend time together? And, I don’t know if the other person is aware or not. Maybe for them, nothing has changed. But for me, I know that after spending time together, I feel uneasy. I feel uncomfortable. And so this is another example. The love that is my birthright is saying, stop. This doesn’t feel good. Okay, talk about it. Bring it up, discuss but don’t maintain the current path. The current path is no longer appropriate. If it was appropriate, it wouldn’t feel wrong. It wouldn’t be so painful. 

To date, I haven’t necessarily listened to the greatness that’s within me that saying, love yourself enough to take care of your needs and listen to your guidance and it hurts. I got to tell you, it hurts because now I pretend, which is a lie, right? Pretending is a lie. I pretend that I’m just as happy to hang out as I’ve always been because I didn’t want to hurt this person’s feelings. This person has been so good to me. I don’t want to disrespect this person. What if I’m wrong? What if I’m crazy? What if this is just a phase? What if I’m just going through something for a moment? You know, and those, that’s what’s kept me in this painful pattern when in reality, if I just got quiet and listened for the guidance that has already been given to me, I would know how to avoid that pain.  

And that is what I’m talking about when I say I have not yet surrendered to the greatness that has been guaranteed to me by my birth right. Instead, I choose to fight the situation and force my will like Adam and Eve in this example, force their will. And when I force my will over what feels appropriate, it hurts. And when it hurts, I am not standing in the magnificence that I have a right to stand in. 

In the workshop that I mentioned earlier, I had a participant of the workshop hold up a plate of butter and I asked her, I gave her a lighter and I said, okay, you’ve seen melted butter before. I’d like you to melt this butter. And during the workshop just keep it in a liquid state. And maybe about five or 10 minutes into the workshop she quit. It was not easy to melt the butter. And I had hoped that maybe there might a few other creative efforts in carrying out the assignment. But at the end of the day, she said, no it’s not worth my effort to do this because it doesn’t work. I either don’t have the tools or I don’t have the circumstances to do what you’re asking me to do and it’s a waste of my time so I’m not going to do it. And the point of this exercise was that the natural state of butter at room temperature is a solid. And we, with technology and tools and resources and willpower can take that butter and make it a liquid, but the liquid is not the nature of that butter at this temperature. So as this lady tried to keep the butter melted, the butter fought her nonstop, and as we debrief the exercise, my point was that you are capable to assert your will! You can melt that butter and you can continue to apply heat and you can keep that butter in a liquid form for as long as you’ve got the energy, but you’re gonna get tired at some point. You have to go to the bathroom, you have to go to sleep. At some point you have to stop, but guess what? The butter will never stop because you cannot fight a natural state. It’s like holding up a book out in front of you with straight arms. The book isn’t heavy and you can hold it out there, but eventually you’re going to fail at trying to maintain your arm straight out. It doesn’t matter how strong you are because gravity will never, never, never stop fighting you, so you can try. But what we learned from that butter example, what we can learn from trying to hold a book straight out ahead of us for you know, for a long period of time, what we learn is that this is a painful, permanent, impossible battle. Let me say that again: this is a painful, permanent, impossible battle with only an imaginary payoff trying to fight the natural state of what is- it’s a painful battle with an imaginary pay off. At the end of the day, the only substance strong enough to cut a diamond is a diamond and the only substance strong enough to hurt me is me. And so I have to be a willing participant and this fight against my nature, no one else walking on this earth has the true power to hurt me. No one can keep me out of my greatness. My magnificence is a part of my inner structure and so the only person who is strong enough to dim my light, the only person who is strong enough to hurt me is me. And so if I don’t want to have my light dimmed, if I don’t want to have a painful, stressful life, there’s only one person with the power to stop fighting and that’s me.  

That is the lesson that they walk away with from this workshop – because the opponent is only ever me. It can only be me. There is no other opponent. You know, I referenced recovery and the recovery community a lot because it’s such an, a formative part of my story, but the reason I do is that the whole point of the 12 steps is to create a spiritual awakening that changes who we are as a person. So as I talk about as I offer this podcast that is about personal growth. And as I reference my own experience, it’s really hard to isolate that out of my recovery experiences as well. That said, there is a book, uh, that’s a part of the recovery literature called 12 steps and 12 traditions. And on page 92 of that book, there’s a quote that says, “it is a spiritual Axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also.” This is such a powerful aspect of a spiritual awakening because the opponent is me. It’s like that horror movie “When a stranger calls”:  the call is coming from inside the house! The person coming after you is you! The person holding you down is you! This is mindblowing. The person who’s trying to make you fail is you.  So stop, stop, stand up. Acknowledge your magnificence, acknowledged the stuff you’re made of. Ask yourself, why am I doing this to myself? Where is the pain that’s confusing me right now? Where is the hurt or that disappointment that’s making me feel that I have to do this? And sit, watch it. Love it, love it. Send love to the pain and it will fade and you will heal and it will be one less illusory temptation for you to fight your own greatness. When we surrender, we restore sanity. When we stop fighting our greatness, we are greatness. I’m going to wrap up the episode today with a pretty famous quote. It comes from Marianne Williamson, um, who people have recently gotten to know because she was a political candidate for the presidency. But, um, before this, for decades, she has been on the forefront of spiritual thought, um, in this movement of awakening.  

In one of her books she wrote the following: “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous. Actually, who are you not to be? You’re a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us. It’s an everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”  

Thank you Marianne, and thank you to all of you who have sat and listened today. I hope that some of the material we covered today resonated with you. At the end of the day, my goal is to be the best person that I can be by helping others do the same. My name is Johnny G. I’m here in Washington, D C, I work with people in person and remotely who are seeking to step into their own magnificence. It would be an honor to help you on your path. Please feel free to email me with any questions at re***************@***il.com. Thank you so much, everyone. Have an amazing day and above all, don’t forget to aim your light.

For more information or to contact Connie Monroe, visit www.MonroeCoaching.com. You can find her book, “Holding onto Joy through Abandonment and Divorce” on Amazon.com.

For information on coaching services or speaking engagements, contact host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Healing Parental Trauma, Redefining Grief, or Spiritual Healing through Toxic Relationships.

Johnny Guidry is a motivational speaker and spiritual coach who supports people who feel called to a soul-driven life. For questions and support, reach Johnny at re***************@***il.com or visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com. For similarly-themed inspiring content, try these episodes: Making Peace with Your Dark Side and If I’m Angry with You, the Problem is Me.

One fateful day, following a period of darkness and intense struggle, Matt decided to end his life. To his horror, he later woke up in a hospital with a bullet in his head and a temporary inability to walk. While recovering in the hospital, in what he describes as a major turning point, Matt felt a message rising within himself that it was time for a new way of living. His path led him out of the hospital and up the corporate ladder before eventually leaving everything behind to pursue a new calling: travelling the world while helping people learn to listen to their intuition.

Matt joins host Johnny G as they share their best tips on getting in touch with your gut, discerning between inner wisdom and false fears, and finding the courage and clarity to step boldy onto your best path.

You can reach Matt at Ma**@****************de.com, and find his helpful free workbook at MattHoganWorldwide.com/Clarity.

For help getting unstuck, or for speaking engagements, reach out to host Johnny Guidry at Re***************@***il.com or visit RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similar themes, try these episodes: Who Do You Think You Are?, Learning to Use Intuition, and You Already Know. You Already Are.

The book referenced by Johnny G during this episode is “The Velvet Rage” by Dr. Alan Downs. Find it here, sold by the amazing Kramers in Washington DC.

For episode questions, or for information on coaching services, keynote speaking, or workshop and retreat facilitation, contact host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com.

For similarly themed episodes of Refractive, try The Gift of Laughter with R. Eric Thomas, The Winding Road to Serenity with Danny Berler, and Unlocking Joy with Jamir Smith.

To learn more about the difference Hally is making in the world, visit livenourishedcoaching.com or email her at ha***@*******************ng.com.

To reach host Johnny Guidry for speaking, coaching, or workshop facilitation, email him at re***************@***il.com or visit refractivepodcast.com.

For similarly themed episodes, check out other topics in the Heal Yourself series, including Rebalancing Your Life, and Inner Peace, Part 1.

To contact host Johnny G with questions about this episode or about coaching or speaking engagements, email him at Re***************@***il.com.

Contact host Johnny Guidry with any questions or to book speaking or coaching services at Re***************@***il.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try If I’m Angry with You, the Problem is Me, Heal Yourself: Rebalancing Your Life with Luke Iorio, or You Already Know, You Already Are.

To learn more about Luke, check out his spirituality podcast at www.OnThisWalk.com. To contact host Johnny Guidry for speaking, coaching, or other services, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Healing Parental Trauma, Releasing Limits through Neuroplasticity, and Surrender to Greatness.

Jennifer explains how she handled the enormous shock and was able to honor this divine directive, move through her fears, and build a new life and career from the ground up.

Find Jennifer’s inspiring book “Permission Granted” on Amazon by clicking here. To learn about how she can help you change your own life, connect with her at LinkedIn.com/in/JenniferStandish or on instagram at @give_yourself_permission.

To book host Johnny Guidry for speaking or coaching engagements visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com or email him at jo****@****************ng.com.

For similarly themed episodes, try Reshaping Your Life after a Spiritual Awakening or Spiritual Visions with Marlon Fixico.

To contact host Johnny Guidry about speaking engagements and coaching services, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Fatherhood and Spirituality with author Tim Olson, Spiritual Healing through Toxic Relationships with Jean Atman, and Self Care for Parents with Executive Coach Randi Braun.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Two Weeks in a Monastery and Reshaping Your Life after a Spiritual Awakening.

Learn more about Jonathan Robinson’s incredible life and book at TheEnlightenmentProject.net.

To contact host Johnny Guidry, or to learn more about his services, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

Johnny explains that the key to serenity is letting go of any judgments of the present moment. This episode blends personal experience, spiritual concepts, and everyone’s favorite game from The Price is Right for a deep dive into letting go of painful stories that keep us from peace.

Here’s a HILARIOUS video of a guy winning 10k TWICE IN A ROW while playing PLINKO. Just skip ahead to minute 5 and soak in the joyful (and seriously laugh-out-loud) moment.

Here’s the link to the Oprah SuperSoul Conversation podcast episode featuring Byron Katie

For similarly themed content, try You Already Know, You Already Are, or Choosing Not to Fight

For similarly themed episodes, try All about Reiki, Is Acupuncture Right for You, and Energy Work to Support Your Goals.

Listeners can find out more about Becca’s services and her book “The Clarity Journal” at her website: www.BeccaRibbing.com.

To contact host Johnny Guidry about coaching and speaking engagements, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com or email him at jo****@****************ng.com.

Learn more about Ben Albert at balbertmarketing.com where you can find content, tools, and information on his offerings.

To book host Johnny G for coaching or speaking engagements, visit refractivecoaching.com or email at Re***************@***il.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try How the 12 Steps Can Help Anyone Heal and Grow or The Gift of Laughter.

Aim your light!

For any questions or for information on booking host Johnny Guidry for speaking engagements, workshop facilitation, or for spiritual or other coaching services, reach out to re***************@***il.com.

Danny shares how the collapse of his business led him in an unexpected way to healing around his adoption, the gift of learning about his biological family, and the faith-building path of cycling through the hard stuff to eventually return to a state of fulfillment and abundance.

For similarly themed episodes, try Owning the Turbulence with Jodi Akst and Reshaping Your Life after a Spiritual Awakening with Josephine Hardman.

You can reach host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com.

Aim your light.

Winnie is the author of Honoring Darkness, Embrace shadow work to nourish and grow your power. Learn more about Winnie, her book, and the services she offers at MindfulHealingHeart.com.

For similarly themed episodes, try All About Reiki and Making Peace with Our Dark Side.

Looking for a spiritual coach? Learn more about host Johnny Guidry at RefractiveCoaching.com.

Learn more about Bob Doyle’s books and services at www.MeetBobDoyle.com.

For questions about the episode or about host Johnny Guidry’s coaching and speaking services, visit www.RefractivePodcast.com, www.RefractiveCoaching.com, or email him at Re***************@***il.com

For similarly-themed episodes, try Energy Work to Support Your Goals w/Eugenia Oganova, Breaking Free from Negative Self-Talk, and Free Yourself from Limiting Beliefs with Rebecca Wiener McGregor

To contact host Johnny Guidry, email him at re***************@***il.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Surrender to Greatness or Whose Expectations Are You Trying to Meet?

For similar themes, try these episodes: All about Reiki w/Corene Summers, When Purpose Gets in the Way w/Daniel Mangena, and Learning to Use Intuition. To book host Johnny Guidry for speaking, coaching, or facilitation services, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, listen to Whose Expectations are you Trying to Meet and When Purpose Gets in the Way.

For similarly themed episodes try Are the Meek Still Blessed? A Modern Look at the Sermon on the Mount or Guided Meditation: Breath and Body Awareness.

Reach host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com. Learn more at RefractivePodcast.com.

Find Corene at www.ArtisanFarmacy.com where you can learn about her services as a business coach, healer, and teacher of Reiki. You can also find her podcast Frequency Shifters at www.artisanfarmacy.com/frequency-shifters-podcast or by searching on your favorite platform.

For similarly themed episodes, try Learning to Use Intuition or Guided Meditation: Breath and Body Awareness.

Automated episode transcript follows here- please excuse any misinterpretations by the transcription software.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G. Corinne Summers is the founder of Artisan Pharmacy. That’s pharmacy with an F. She’s a Reiki master teacher energy healer. She’s a business coach for conscious entrepreneurs.

00:01:01:14 – 00:01:18:11
Unknown
She’s a meditation and mindfulness coach. She’s a corporate wellness specialist and a yoga instructor, too. She studied throughout the U.S., India, Tibet, Nepal, Spain and Australia. You can reach out to Karrine with any questions at hello at Artisan Pharmacy dot com.

00:01:18:15 – 00:01:34:15
Unknown
And again, that’s pharmacy with an f, not a h. Welcome, Corinne. It’s so nice to have you with us. Thank you for that introduction and thank you for having me. People, always people always get that wrong with the even if I say pharmacy, it’s like a farm pharmacy.

00:01:34:15 – 00:01:53:14
Unknown
Why people will still smell it the other way. But you know, the whole idea that we have so much in nature that we can access to use it for our own health and well-being to relieve stress and anxiety and improve or raise our frequency, raise our vibration?

00:01:53:22 – 00:02:05:06
Unknown
And so it’s kind of a play on words there. I have a shop that has all kinds of tools and products that you can use to improve it, live it, live a toxin, free life and benefit from all of the beauty that nature has given us.

00:02:05:15 – 00:02:20:00
Unknown
It’s excellent. I have to say one of my closest friends from childhood, her name is Corinne, and it’s spelled very similar to your name. So if I pronounce your name, Corinne, please know that it’s just falling into these, into these old habits.

00:02:20:15 – 00:02:32:04
Unknown
But I do want to make sure and show you the respect of calling you Corene, as is your name. But thank you for your patience with that. Oh, no worries at all. Most people call me Corinne, so I won’t.

00:02:32:12 – 00:02:46:21
Unknown
It doesn’t bother me one bit. But the Corinne, as from my two grandmothers, Cora and Irene, so my mom put them together. So nobody else is actually named that it’s okay. You’re mine, just like pharmacy and pharmacy. Your mind automatically wants to do what you know.

00:02:46:22 – 00:03:08:01
Unknown
So I don’t know. Definitely. No hard feelings here. Absolutely. Where are you broadcasting from today? Today I’m in Pittsburgh, so I’ve lived all over. I spent time in Washington, D.C., Chicago, Illinois and Seattle. And then I’ve been splitting my time between Pittsburgh and New York City since the pandemic.

00:03:08:11 – 00:03:23:12
Unknown
Closer to family. And yeah, just wanted to kind of transition back to be closer to to where my family was primarily just like Mr. Rogers happened back and forth from Pittsburgh to NYC back and forth every week, you know, keeping my fun.

00:03:24:03 – 00:03:41:22
Unknown
I was surprised by how beautiful Pittsburgh was the first time I went there. I, you know, I expect here. What’s that? You’ve been here? Yeah. Well, you know, I lived in Philadelphia for four years, and so I did have the opportunity to go out to Pittsburgh and visit and I expected it.

00:03:42:08 – 00:03:59:06
Unknown
When you hear about the Rust Belt and I don’t know, I just expected it to look a little bit rundown. But when I got there, I was blown away with all the beautiful yellow bridges and, you know, the sleek skyscrapers, and there’s so much charm.

00:03:59:12 – 00:04:15:15
Unknown
And I said, Wow, I really judge a book by its cover without even having been there. And so, you know, you certainly do live in a beautiful place. That’s great that you’ve been here, I agree the bridges are beautiful and it has such a pretty skyline with the rivers and everything of skyline and then the rivers, it

00:04:15:15 – 00:04:33:04
Unknown
just it’s really beautiful for especially a small city. Yeah. So today we’re talking about reiki, and this is something that I know is near and dear to your heart. And I just have a feeling that this is something it’s a concept that will be useful for the listeners today.

00:04:33:04 – 00:04:50:07
Unknown
And I know that you’ve dedicated a lot of time and energy to, you know, to supporting people through Reiki healing. And so thank you for being willing to come on and share that knowledge, share that experience and help us all become a little more comfortable with Reiki.

00:04:50:07 – 00:05:03:13
Unknown
So why don’t we start by you giving us just a high level overview of what it is and we can dig deeper as we go on? Wonderful. Yes, it’s a great place to start and I have a lot of I have done a lot of things.

00:05:03:13 – 00:05:24:13
Unknown
I have a lot of titles and certifications, but my primarily primary modality is reiki and the chakras, so different types of energetic hygiene practices I like to call them. But we’ll start with my favorite and the most basic description, which is from one of my best friends and another coach.

00:05:24:19 – 00:05:40:14
Unknown
His name’s Alex Terranova. And he said, You know, Reiki is kind of like that feeling you get when a little puppy runs up to you and jumps up to you and starts to lick your face. You know you just like you can’t help but smile like you feel really happy.

00:05:40:14 – 00:05:53:03
Unknown
You feel really you like, instantly feel good. And I just love that because it was so true when he said it, I just laughed out loud. I was like, Man, you’re totally right. Is this like that feeling or anything, you know, that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

00:05:53:04 – 00:06:13:01
Unknown
That’s usually how you feel after a reiki session or any time you’re using that practice. But more officially, it’s often referred to as a stress reduction and deep relaxation technique. So that’s kind of the main, you know, more formal description that’s used.

00:06:13:07 – 00:06:34:19
Unknown
But I also think of it more as I mentioned energetic hygiene. So just like we brush our teeth or, you know, take care of our physical body and our mental body, maybe through education and meditation and things like that, there’s all these different techniques for different layers to our body, and these ancient practices also recognize our energetic

00:06:34:19 – 00:06:47:21
Unknown
body. It comes from the coaches you made. Have maybe you’ve heard of that, either, Veda? They talk a lot about these energy as well. So does Chinese medicine. So does it. What else talks a lot about that type of energy?

00:06:48:04 – 00:07:06:01
Unknown
Reiki Chinese medicine and missing with the shock of the chakras. But it’s essentially being able to release things that you are stressed about or releasing physical tension. It’s recognizing where you need to heal, where you need to release and let go of things.

00:07:06:12 – 00:07:21:02
Unknown
And then also opening the door for greater health and well-being, greater positivity. But it’s something that, you know, if we’re doing it all the time energetically, we usually we feel that we feel better. We feel generally those things that people crave or want in life.

00:07:21:02 – 00:07:36:01
Unknown
We feel more positive or more relaxed and at ease, and we stay more in balance. So there’s less extremes on on the sides we have. It creates more of a state of a state of flow as you’re using these tools regularly.

00:07:36:14 – 00:07:55:21
Unknown
That’s awesome. And I have to confess that I know so little about Reiki and as a part of my own spiritual path, I do a lot of energy work through visualizations. And yeah, I mean, visualizations is the way it is, is a way to talk about it.

00:07:55:21 – 00:08:13:23
Unknown
I imagine different frequencies and colors and wavelengths and different energies. And I, you know, one of the biggest steps forward for me in this was when I was reading Eckhart Tolle is the power of now in my first months of spiritual seeking.

00:08:14:02 – 00:08:41:19
Unknown
And he talked about how if you just concentrate on your hand, you’ll eventually start to feel the life force in your hand. You’ll just feel the tingling. And once I experienced that and I was able to. Guide the sensation around my body to different parts of my body that opened the door for me in my meditations and

00:08:41:19 – 00:09:07:01
Unknown
in my quiet practices to start to direct the flow of my energy, according to whatever my intuition told me to do not having any training, not having any background information on it. And then as I moved into working with guided meditations, obviously there’s a lot of there’s a lot of working with your energy flow in some guided

00:09:07:01 – 00:09:24:17
Unknown
meditation. So that was the next step for me. But this in understanding what makes a particular modality of energy work reiki. All of this, this is this is something that I’m not an expert in. So what is the what makes reiki reiki versus other type of energy work?

00:09:26:16 – 00:09:45:04
Unknown
I love also that you like I know nothing about Reiki and then what you just described to me, you’re essentially already a Reiki level one practitioner because grades are like that knowledge and idea of activating your life force energy and then being able to send it to yourself around your body.

00:09:45:11 – 00:10:01:03
Unknown
That’s essentially what we learn in Reiki level one, and then we move on and to learn how to also use it on friends and family, on pets. When you become a Reiki master, you can also do it distantly and then certify other reiki teachers and practitioners.

00:10:01:18 – 00:10:21:19
Unknown
So that’s something that I do have a Reiki practitioner certification coming up here pretty soon, which I’m really excited about. But yeah, you’re already doing it, you’re turning on and activating your energy in the hands. So interestingly enough, there are considered an extension of the heart and the heart chakra or that energy center.

00:10:22:03 – 00:10:48:19
Unknown
So, you know, we’re essentially using using the hands as a way to activate and then guide and direct the energy. But you never actually put your hands on on somebody and you know, with yourself as well. You’re you’re kind of directing the energy and it’s through, you know, you mentioned visualization, visualization and meditation are another really big

00:10:48:19 – 00:11:03:10
Unknown
part of that. There’s also an invocation, so some specific language and a way of setting up each session that’s used that you learn when you become a practitioner and a master. But you know, that’s that’s exactly what we’re doing.

00:11:03:11 – 00:11:20:04
Unknown
So I forget what the original question is. I’m sorry. Oh yeah. So what distinguishes reiki from, let’s say, other energy modalities? I imagine that there are many, many, many different ways of working with energy, and reiki is just one.

00:11:20:10 – 00:11:43:14
Unknown
So could you help clarify a little bit on that? Yeah, absolutely, and the other one I missed earlier was shamanism, so that’s OK using energy and this idea also of intention. So when you’re doing any of these types of practices, there’s generally an intention for something to be healed or in a set of attention for something to

00:11:43:14 – 00:12:06:10
Unknown
come to the surface and be released. And so that’s how we have such a huge impact and that there’s usually an intention there. And then each modality is using different tools or techniques. So for instance, in something like shamanism, you know, we use drums and different instruments, feathers.

00:12:06:17 – 00:12:28:02
Unknown
There’s also herbs like Rappelé and Campbell and different things ayahuasca, you know, different plant medicines that might be used. And then in something, you know, there’s there’s something different is going to be used in Chinese medicine. You know, that’s a lot of a lot of herbs, but also they’re really connected to the idea of G and universal

00:12:28:02 – 00:12:50:04
Unknown
life force energy. So again, that’s that’s another type of energy, energy healing. And then the chakras, you know, they also use different tools. So it’s a lot of the same ideas and principles and. Idea that we have power and we do have the ability we we don’t we can’t control everything, but there’s a lot that we can

00:12:50:04 – 00:13:06:17
Unknown
control through our thought, through setting intentions and through tapping into those deeper layers of our of our human bodies. The idea that we have a spirit and a soul and an energy layer, that there’s an energetic function to us.

00:13:06:24 – 00:13:28:15
Unknown
And we’re not just flesh, you know, physical form there, there’s a lot more than that. So it really resonated with me when I first started to read writings on how illness is a physical manifestation of an energy blockage or an energy issue.

00:13:28:22 – 00:13:53:19
Unknown
And, you know, there are lots of divergent ideas on that. And you know, there is a school of thought that, you know, cancer is often related to unprocessed anger or fear or clenching and things like that. So I I would assume that when it comes to Reiki, one of the goals is to process these, let’s say, this

00:13:53:19 – 00:14:17:11
Unknown
residue that emotions leave with us. So that is that what you mean when you talk about energy hygiene? Yeah, because it doesn’t specifically cure your disease, but it creates the environment that healing can occur. Yeah. So I had that idea shocked me, too.

00:14:17:11 – 00:14:31:01
Unknown
I had Lyme disease. Since 2010, I’ve now put almost all of my symptoms into remission. But it was really it was really a difficult part of my awakening when I realized that I had actually manifested it through exactly what you just said.

00:14:31:01 – 00:14:46:05
Unknown
Some fear, anger, trauma that I experienced through multiple unfortunate events that I dealt with very young in my life that left me in a bad place. And you know, that journey was part of what brought me here and to be a reiki master.

00:14:46:06 – 00:14:59:03
Unknown
You know, I learned all this stuff because it was helping me and I wasn’t getting the answers I needed from Western medicine. Yes. And as soon as I started to implement all of these practices, my healing began. It’s taken me a long time, you know, because I was really sick.

00:14:59:13 – 00:15:17:21
Unknown
But it has absolutely changed my life, and it is an absolute joy and honor. You know that I’m able to to give these tools to others. I’ve seen so much transformation and growth and the the gift of peace to and realizing that there is something you can do.

00:15:18:09 – 00:15:34:06
Unknown
I think that’s hard when you’re dealing with a man with an autoimmune related or cancer. With so many diseases, we don’t have answers. And it can feel frustrating to be told that there’s no other door to open or that you just have to keep basically doing the same thing and you’re going to be sick forever.

00:15:34:13 – 00:15:56:02
Unknown
Or there’s always a risk of of, you know, something else happening. So I felt really empowered by this knowledge and that I, you know, it gave me motivation again and really helped empower me to continue down my path and to keep trying and seeking better and better and better and better and get a really cool experience.

00:15:56:14 – 00:16:18:09
Unknown
You know, it’s hard to flat out negate the power of energetics in physical healing. I mean, you hear all the time that doctors, you know, one of the things that makes such a big difference in the recovery of patients is if the patient believes it’s possible to recover, right?

00:16:18:10 – 00:16:41:02
Unknown
If the patient has that attitude of optimism and is willing to work with the treatments and and believing the impact of the treatments, and you hear that all the time, all the time, this is not some crazy woo woo thing like this is literally doctors will tell you my patients who are on board with the treatment and

00:16:41:02 – 00:16:55:23
Unknown
who believe in the potential of the treatment do better than the patients who are hopeless. And so, I mean, how else can you explain it? But it’s a matter of managing your energy in a way to in a way that benefits you.

00:16:57:10 – 00:17:09:13
Unknown
Oh, absolutely. There are actually a lot of hospitals. I don’t know the exact number I know at one point a couple of years ago it was like hundreds. But there are quite a few hospitals that have that use reiki.

00:17:09:14 – 00:17:25:24
Unknown
They have reiki practitioners come into the hospital and actually do it right there at the hospital with the patients if it’s something that the patient wants. And the more knowledge we have about these things, you know, the more acceptance there is, the more inclusion of than there is.

00:17:26:07 – 00:17:37:01
Unknown
And for a really long time, there has been the separation between western and eastern medicine. They work most beautifully together, right when we have, you know, that’s what I envision for our future that we’re able to use both.

00:17:37:09 – 00:18:01:13
Unknown
There are definitely things that energetic healing, you know, reiki or setting an intention or using a drum like isn’t going to heal your you need surgery. You might need something really serious, right? But it’s understanding that we’re not just physical bodies, and I think that mind, body, spirit, kind of cohesion.

00:18:01:13 – 00:18:17:12
Unknown
And when we create this harmony, we understand that we have these other layers. That’s why that allows everything else you’re doing to work and create that environment for growth and progress in whatever else you’re doing. Because you’re you’re recognizing, Oh yeah, I’m all these pieces.

00:18:17:12 – 00:18:33:19
Unknown
I’m all these parts. There are other things that I need to consider. I’m not just one faceted, you know, as humans, I think we try to almost pigeonhole ourselves or try to be like everybody else. And what I love about these things is that they these practices recognize we are also energy.

00:18:34:04 – 00:18:50:22
Unknown
It’s OK to have emotion. You’re going to have emotion flow through you. You have to let it flow. The more you resist, the more blockage, the more struggle you’re creating for yourself in different areas of your life. So accept yourself for who you are and where you are and love yourself for that.

00:18:50:22 – 00:19:07:03
Unknown
And yeah, it’s a cool. It’s a beautiful philosophy. It is because, you know, what’s the difference between a living body and a dead body? You know what I mean? Like, like what is the difference between the body that starts to decay and fall apart and the body that is living and thriving?

00:19:07:04 – 00:19:29:03
Unknown
It’s that there is this energy flowing through it. Right. There is this animating energy that exists, that that interacts with the physical aspects of the body. And through this intelligent design or whatever you want to call it, the body does these magical things right?

00:19:29:08 – 00:19:48:11
Unknown
And so I think it’s shortsighted to look at to dismiss energetics as an important part of healthy physical living. You know, it just makes a lot of sense to me. I wonder. Go ahead, please. Have you ever taken a Reiki session yourself?

00:19:48:21 – 00:20:17:21
Unknown
So I had a spiritual coach early in my path, and she did quite a bit of energy work sessions with me and she didn’t call it reiki. She just called it energy sessions where she would. It was remote, and she would spend time going through blockages densities in my energy field and things like that, so I was

00:20:17:21 – 00:20:39:16
Unknown
so new to this spiritual path. I didn’t quite know what to make of it, but I felt mostly open minded toward it. I trusted her. I trusted her lifetime of a focus on this, and I trusted her breadth of knowledge on metaphysics and spirituality.

00:20:39:20 – 00:20:58:10
Unknown
And so even though I didn’t understand what was happening, I surrendered myself to it and I definitely felt I could just I could just feel sensations moving throughout my body during them. So, you know? I guess that’s the best answer I could give you.

00:20:58:14 – 00:21:17:15
Unknown
It sounds like there was some reiki modality going on in that. Yeah, it absolutely does, and it can be done distantly. And I’m a Reiki master, so I can do my sessions one on one sessions for my Reiki certification programs with people from my computer, which is great, especially since COVID happened.

00:21:18:08 – 00:21:32:07
Unknown
And you it’s I love being with people in real life, and it’s something I miss so much, especially if you’re doing something like that and something hard comes up. It’s nice to be able to hug somebody or, you know, create another layer of your your your connection in the physical realm.

00:21:32:24 – 00:21:41:13
Unknown
But in these days, it’s so wonderful that we can do it remotely. And you have, you know, I was a little when I went full fully like that. I’ve got to admit I was a little bit like worried.

00:21:41:13 – 00:21:53:21
Unknown
I’m like, Is it going to be the same? Are people going to have the same impact or are they going to have the same level of success with this? And it has been the same. We we maybe maybe even stronger for some reason.

00:21:53:21 – 00:22:08:09
Unknown
I don’t I don’t know what it is, but it’s created some really, really beautiful practices. And I’m sorry, I just totally lost my train of thought. Of course. Oh, come back. Yeah. Hmm. Where was I going to go with that one?

00:22:10:14 – 00:22:27:20
Unknown
Would you tell us kind of what happens during a Reiki energy session? Yeah, and you’ll have to excuse my my cat here. Oh, cats are always like, I’m doing a reiki session or even talking about reiki. I swear I start to feel the energy and my cats.

00:22:27:20 – 00:22:45:16
Unknown
I have two of them and they love it. They’ll come and sit on my lap, or they always want to be close by animals. It’s not. So what happens in a Reiki session when we’re any kind of reiki, such whether we’re in person or doing it distantly, you know, at first we’re going to talk a little bit

00:22:45:22 – 00:23:06:21
Unknown
, especially if you’re new, get to know each other a little bit and talk about anything specific that you may want to address. So if there’s something physically going on or mentally, emotionally going on that you want to be addressed, I invite you to let me know so then I can spend your time directing, you know, the energy

00:23:06:21 – 00:23:20:22
Unknown
towards that area, or I can just do it intuitively. If you don’t have something specific and you’re using it for more relaxation or if you’re not comfortable sharing and it’s amazing, the intuitive it’s a it works every time.

00:23:21:04 – 00:23:32:01
Unknown
Yeah, even when I started it, I was doubting myself and I would just go with my gut and you know, you’re like, You have to you have to risk get got to get to know if this is this is working to make your gas.

00:23:32:06 – 00:23:46:10
Unknown
And it was always spot on. So that always impresses me as well about about this energy and the way it works. So we might talk a little bit about that. And then the student is going to just get comfortable, relax, get under a blanket.

00:23:46:10 – 00:24:03:02
Unknown
You can be in bed. Usually I invite you to lie down. It’s best if you’re lying down and just letting the body completely relax, letting the nervous system relax, play some gentle music, close your eyes and it’s like a meditation in that way or yoga.

00:24:03:02 – 00:24:24:03
Unknown
Nedra if anyone has ever done a yoga teacher meditation, it’s also an ancient practice or meditation for sleep, for deep sleep. And so, yeah, you just you let go, relax and let the energy flow. And on my end, you know, I do, like I said, a little invocation and there are certain, you know, certain things that I

00:24:24:03 – 00:24:39:20
Unknown
say to kind of get it started, certain things that I focus my attention on and visualize. And then we begin and the session might last. You can do 30 minutes, 45 minutes an hour and hours, usually usually the max.

00:24:40:02 – 00:24:58:24
Unknown
Yeah. And you just you have your experience. And then afterwards we talk a little bit, share anything and ask any questions you might have. And yeah, that’s that’s about it. It’s pretty simple. It’s very similar to the meditation, but I think the impact in how you I think how you feel is different, right?

00:24:59:06 – 00:25:19:08
Unknown
You know, there’s more sensory. You’re like, yes, tingling or warmth. You might have visualizations and see things. Some people feel like they go almost into a trance like state where they completely almost fall asleep or they go somewhere else and they feel like they went somewhere else and to another dimension and and came back.

00:25:19:15 – 00:25:41:23
Unknown
So the experiences can be can be very different. You might have of emotion. You might cry. That’s just another way of the body releasing. Yeah. So other than just for energetic health, right? For for maintaining healthy energy, what are some reasons that someone would seek out a reiki energy work?

00:25:43:22 – 00:25:56:12
Unknown
If you just want to feel more relaxed or at ease, if you want to raise your free weight, raise your frequency, raise your vibration, you know, just feel better, have more energy, feel more joyful, all of those things.

00:25:57:11 – 00:26:13:10
Unknown
You know, I think it also works with, I believe a lot in that we are, you know, we attract things based on our energy. And I do a lot of work with visualization, as you mentioned in manifestation. And so an intention setting, those are all very related.

00:26:13:20 – 00:26:31:16
Unknown
And, you know, as you improve your own health and well-being and all of these different areas mind, body, physical or spiritual as we improve our energy. And just that just means health, right? Like as we improve our health and we continue to feel better and better and better and all of those areas.

00:26:32:04 – 00:26:50:11
Unknown
The ripple effect of change also occurs, and we begin to then attract more and more and more better and better, better things and all of those areas and continue to to rise upward and that trajectory. So yes, I don’t think there’s a reason not to practice Reiki, and I think everyone should do it.

00:26:50:11 – 00:27:04:00
Unknown
And there is a level one and two practitioner or at least level one. Yeah, just because it’s such a powerful practice just for yourself. Yeah, especially right now, with everything going on in COVID, the world is so heavy we all need a little more lightness.

00:27:04:00 – 00:27:16:11
Unknown
We all need a little more love. And you know, I see it as almost pure love vibration, pure love energy. You’re you’re channeling pure love when you’re doing it and when you’re receiving it. That’s often what you feel.

00:27:16:11 – 00:27:34:11
Unknown
So who doesn’t need that? Oh, I almost see it as kind of like an energy version of a massage, right? You go. And it’s just a way to get relief from the tension and the stress and the pressure that that we’re in.

00:27:34:16 – 00:27:49:04
Unknown
And I see kind of the same impact almost for Reiki as you would get from a massage where it’s it’s it’s almost like a reinvigoration. Yeah, absolutely, that’s a really good way of putting it. I like the term energetic massage.

00:27:49:12 – 00:28:05:08
Unknown
Yes, people do often. one of the misconceptions is that it’s very similar to a massage and that there’s physical contact happening. I think especially because a lot of the pictures, you know, there’s like hands hovering, but you can’t always tell, but it’s definitely not a massage.

00:28:06:05 – 00:28:19:07
Unknown
And it’s, you know, the energy is also not your own. So I think that’s another common misconception that the energy is coming from the practitioner. But one of the things I always say in my at the beginning is that I’m not giving that person any of my energy.

00:28:19:07 – 00:28:45:20
Unknown
I’m not taking on any of theirs. There’s a boundary there. I’m not. I actually feel like that’s inappropriate when people try to wear co-mingle that it’s tapping into something that’s bigger and something that. Bigger and stronger than all of us, it’s tapping into that, you know, universal life, force, energy or other key, et cetera.

00:28:46:09 – 00:29:07:20
Unknown
Mm-Hmm. Now you mentioned that your personal difficulties of suffering through Lyme disease, and I know that there was a period of misdiagnosis in your past that really created a lot of pain and frustration for you and that this was foundational to arriving where you are today.

00:29:07:24 – 00:29:27:02
Unknown
I wonder, how do you see the progression of that path and why did you why do you think? That suffering that you went through that challenge brought you into becoming a Reiki master and all the other roles that you play to help people on their spiritual journey.

00:29:28:23 – 00:29:38:09
Unknown
I think for me, it was my it was meant to happen, it was my destiny, it was part of what I would have never ended up here. If it weren’t for what I went through, I wouldn’t have been seeking so many other answers.

00:29:38:20 – 00:29:52:17
Unknown
I did travel to India, Nepal and Tibet and started studying these things before I knew I had. I was so sick in 2010 was when I was bit by the tick and was first diagnosed. I had the bull’s eye rash and everything.

00:29:53:01 – 00:30:11:04
Unknown
And so they put me on some antibiotics and then told me I should be fine. I was in my mid twenties, early twenties and was like, OK and just went on with my life. Yeah. And shortly after that was when I took this big trip and had deepened my studying in yoga and meditation.

00:30:11:09 – 00:30:27:18
Unknown
I started studying Iyer Veda, which I was introduced to while I was there. I spent a lot of time and I spent time in Tibet and Indian monasteries and just enriching my my spiritual life through so much ancient wisdom that I had never heard of before.

00:30:28:04 – 00:30:42:24
Unknown
And there was something about it that just resonated with me. You know, I couldn’t deny the way I felt in this knowing of, you know, this is this is truth, and I felt it in my body. And you know, there was just it completely, completely shifted me.

00:30:43:15 – 00:30:56:18
Unknown
So it was that was kind of the starting point. And then after that, when I came back to the United States, it was at that time I had moved out to Seattle, and that was about when I started to find myself really, really sick in 2012.

00:30:56:18 – 00:31:11:22
Unknown
Things just and random things happening and then just kept getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. I went through a lot of misdiagnosis, and then it took all the way until 2018 for them to figure out that I still had Lyme disease from 2004.

00:31:12:12 – 00:31:29:03
Unknown
And so during that time, they basically nobody knew what was wrong with me. I had misdiagnosis after misdiagnosis and nothing was helping. And so I was really frustrated and started to seek other answers. And I knew, you know, I had started planning those seeds already with the yoga meditation.

00:31:29:03 – 00:31:49:16
Unknown
And I are Veda and I just went right down the right partners and jumped. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I dove into all of the modalities and all of the all of the tools, and now I’ve kind of streamlined, you know, I brought it all in, and that’s one of the things I like about the work that I do

00:31:49:16 – 00:32:03:20
Unknown
because I’ve studied so many different, different things that I can kind of bring them together and realize where there are synchronicities and give people tools to help them where they are because we’re all different too. We all need different things.

00:32:04:05 – 00:32:16:14
Unknown
And so that’s what you feel about this. There’s different things that might work for different people, and you have to ultimately, no matter where you are on your journey, whether you’re healing from something or not, find what works for you.

00:32:16:23 – 00:32:40:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So when it comes to becoming a Reiki master, what is the progression along the path of learning reiki understanding and starting to practice it and then qualifying to become a teacher or whatever the path is? Yes.

00:32:41:10 – 00:32:55:02
Unknown
So you start with Reiki level one, which is practicing on yourself. Mm-Hmm. And then you move on to practicing and being able to practice on your friends and family and then being able to take clients and use it on your pets as well.

00:32:55:11 – 00:33:12:10
Unknown
So in the first one, you can practice on yourself, close friends and family, you’re more casually. But then when you get your second level practitioner, you can also practice on clients and you don’t take money and add it to your modalities that you may offer an existing business, or you can also use it in a lot of

00:33:12:10 – 00:33:29:14
Unknown
other practices. You know, I think for anyone that wants to bring more positivity and light to anything that you do, yeah, you’re a leader in a business. It’s going to improve communication and your ability to create positive environments in the in the workforce.

00:33:29:19 – 00:33:44:05
Unknown
Yeah, if you’re a teacher, you know, it’s going to help you with also creating that positive calm environment and in school or with your students. If you’re a cook, you know, they say, if you’re cook, you can actually infuse the energy in your food.

00:33:44:14 – 00:33:59:15
Unknown
And it’s funny. I’ve heard I’ve heard rumors of myths about restaurant owner like in a restaurant that they have a reiki chef and it’s like they’re sold out. They’re just always sold out. So Reiki could be B for anyone, especially in those first two levels.

00:33:59:15 – 00:34:13:18
Unknown
You know, you could use it for anything but to become a master. You’re a little more invested in the first thing you can do each one in a day. Reiki level one is one day reiki. Level two is another full day, and then there’s a lot of reading material and other other things.

00:34:14:04 – 00:34:30:06
Unknown
And then you have to practice for six months at minimum before you can become a master. Okay. Mm-Hmm. Now it’s much more intense. You know what was three days of full sunup to sundown training? And it’s pretty. It’s pretty exhausting.

00:34:30:06 – 00:34:53:07
Unknown
Actually, it’s a lot of a lot of work, a lot of energy being a lot of mental energy and your own healing, that’s happening as well. When you’re when you’re doing it. But. I imagine when you take on that title of Reiki Master, I mean, you have a certain commitment, an obligation to the people that that are

00:34:53:07 – 00:35:22:16
Unknown
hiring you to. I don’t know, I imagine that there must be. What do I even asking, I guess? How how do you manage the quality of the work that you do with people? How does someone make sure that they are truly being a high quality practitioner of Reiki for their clients?

00:35:24:01 – 00:35:49:12
Unknown
How do you manage your own energetic hygiene and your own vibration so that you are meeting this commitment to quality for your clients? Great question. And that’s it’s basically minding my own energy. You know, if I need to be a clean portal and vessel to be able to tap into it and feel like I’m doing my best

00:35:49:12 – 00:36:01:04
Unknown
and to deliver my best. So it’s really important for me to do all the things that I do every day to every day and every week. I have a lot of ritual, so you probably don’t want me to name them all.

00:36:03:01 – 00:36:14:23
Unknown
I have like, I mean, so many teas and herbs and different things that I use. Most of them you can get on my website, though, are pharmacy dot com. And then my shop. Or you can go directly to the shop dot artisan pharmacy, dot com.

00:36:15:06 – 00:36:34:21
Unknown
And a lot of what I use is there everything from, you know, dry brushing tools to keep my lymphatic system healthy to jade rollers, to keep my skin healthy, to all those herbs and nutrients and vitamins and and things that I take to keep my physical body healthy and to keep my Lyme symptoms, my chronic Lyme symptoms

00:36:34:21 – 00:36:52:03
Unknown
in remission. Yeah. And then, you know, oils and sprays and sages and all of that good stuff. I also use a lot of innovative practices and shamanic practices that might be a little more unfamiliar to people. So I mentioned them.

00:36:52:03 – 00:37:08:16
Unknown
And if anyone wants to know more, please email me. You can do your own research, but if you will email me, I will. I’ll also shoot some things your way. And those are things like nausea oil. So it’s some it’s oil drops that you put in your nose, and that’s for, you know, this entire area.

00:37:08:19 – 00:37:26:22
Unknown
The third eye also penny opening the pineal gland or activating your third eye energy, which you may or may not be familiar with. And, you know, different massage oils as well. And then some shamanic tools like Rappelé, which is, are you familiar with that?

00:37:27:01 – 00:37:44:02
Unknown
Oh, tell me about it. It’s an ancient like. It uses tobacco, but like pure tobacco and some other herbs, and it’s mixed by different shamanic tribes. And then you can you can use it yourself. And it’s also something that goes up your nose.

00:37:44:02 – 00:38:04:09
Unknown
It’s one of the ways that herbs and different. What’s the word I want? I want to use. You’re using either oils or herbs. I know it’s something that a lot of Westerners are like. Kind of. Mm-Hmm. Maybe you would shy away from or be unfamiliar with because you don’t use a lot of things in our nose.

00:38:04:18 – 00:38:22:12
Unknown
Now, you know, that’s usually drugs. If you’re trying to speak for yourself, career, most people associate it. Most people associate it with something negative. But it’s actually one of the ways that things can permeate the blood brain barrier and get into our system the fastest.

00:38:22:21 – 00:38:34:08
Unknown
And so it’s interesting that a lot of ancient practices use those kinds of tools. So I do, I do all kind of stuff. And then obviously meditation and yoga and self reiki. I do reiki on myself as well.

00:38:34:17 – 00:38:53:24
Unknown
Getting outside, though, that’s something that’s like the simplest way you can improve your energy and. Shift into a more positive state, so that’s a lot of things. Yeah. Can you give can you recommend a couple of of ways that people can manage their own energy?

00:38:54:00 – 00:39:15:02
Unknown
You talked about going outside, getting in the sun for a little bit of time. What are some other ways you know, for me, I know that there are certain TV that I can’t watch. There’s there’s certain types of TV programs that really stick to me, like a like a like a scam and they affect my energy.

00:39:15:02 – 00:39:37:06
Unknown
And, you know, so that’s that’s one way that I try to manage my energy is is by controlling what I’m exposed to as far as entertainment. What are some other practices that you would recommend to listeners? I’m actually so glad that you brought that up because it’s really important in a world full of over stimulus and we’re

00:39:37:06 – 00:39:51:22
Unknown
surrounded by technology and we don’t always can always control that right or we can. But we have we have to be able to make the decision. OK, yes. What do I want in my energy field? What do I actually want to expose my myself to?

00:39:52:03 – 00:40:09:17
Unknown
We can’t control that technology exists, and we’re going have to be on social media and be someone involved, and we’re going to go on the internet. We’re going to see some news but control the things that you can make sure you’re following positive people that uplift you and make you feel good in your news block.

00:40:10:00 – 00:40:21:19
Unknown
Change your home page so you’re not surrounded by negative news all the time and limit the time that you allow yourself to be exposed to what’s going on in the world and media that might impact you. Don’t do it before bed.

00:40:22:06 – 00:40:39:09
Unknown
Yeah, a different time of the day and limited things even like blocking notifications that might come in, that might be disruptive. I think the biggest thing is noticing in yourself what what is making me feel good? What is makes me feel bad.

00:40:40:03 – 00:40:51:01
Unknown
And that’s that’s the basic what makes me feel good? What makes you feel bad? Something makes you feel bad. Try to get that out of your life. Something makes you feel good. Try to include more of it. The best you can.

00:40:51:14 – 00:41:14:01
Unknown
Yeah. You know, for me, I I’ve gone through a series of changing my news providers from in the past. You know, I was exposed to so much. Drama in the headlines, and it like you said it, it just feels gross.

00:41:14:02 – 00:41:32:02
Unknown
It feels gross. It does not feel good. And so I found that four and I can only speak for me. I’m not. But for me, I found that when I was reading the headlines on my CNN app that there was a lot of emotional words being used.

00:41:32:09 – 00:41:48:04
Unknown
And so I started to do some research. And from CNN, I moved to NPR, which had a slightly softer tone to the headlines because I don’t necessarily read news articles. I just scroll through the headlines to know what’s happening around the world.

00:41:48:07 – 00:42:07:20
Unknown
But even the headlines were too much for me on the CNN app. And then but I found that NPR also I found myself less and less satisfied with it. And I eventually landed at Reuters. Oh man. So I use journeys.

00:42:08:06 – 00:42:26:12
Unknown
Yes. I mean, like, like snore, snow or snore. The most boring news source in the world. Reuters. But that’s the point. The point is that I want to know if you know, I want to know what’s happening, but I don’t want to be emotionally manipulated for clicks and things.

00:42:26:13 – 00:42:52:05
Unknown
And so that has also, in addition to TV, been an important part. And I love that you mentioned managing your news intake because, yeah, it’s it’s it’s a machine. It absolutely is. And fear is what sells. So it’s important to remember that since advertisers paid the news sources, so I’ve actually balanced I’ve I’ve also changed a lot

00:42:52:05 – 00:43:10:20
Unknown
of where I stay pretty well-rounded of just understanding what the what different demographics are saying. But I have switched a lot of my information from it to real people like I always, I always verify things, or that’s where I sort of balance out the tide because you can usually believe, like my mom always told me, growing up

00:43:10:21 – 00:43:27:01
Unknown
, like 50% of what happened, what people say is probably the truth. And if there’s two things on the opposite, you’re probably somewhere right in the middle. To me, that’s a great way of kind of taking a taking a scoop or so and then deciding, OK, probably somewhere right around here and hearing from real people.

00:43:27:07 – 00:43:40:05
Unknown
I love it with social media. That’s something we didn’t have the ability to do before to see what’s happening in the real world from real people all over the world. Yes. And so I always I always liked her to do that as well.

00:43:40:14 – 00:44:07:04
Unknown
I agree. Wonderful. So if listeners want to learn more about you, what you offer, they want to learn about reiki and energy work. How can they better explore that? I’ll head over to my website, which is artisan pharmacy spelled R T, I say, and then pharmacy with an f f a R M AC Y dot com and

00:44:07:04 – 00:44:19:14
Unknown
I have a lot of information there in the menu bar. At the top there’s you can just hit Reiki and then there’s a dropdown with my reiki, one on one to book and more information about the Reiki certification, which is coming up.

00:44:19:15 – 00:44:37:13
Unknown
I have a one in two certification coming up in the middle of March, so I’m doing, you know, information calls for that right now. If anybody’s interested in learning more, let’s hop on the phone for one of those calls, and that’d be a great way to just ask any questions and get any more clarification.

00:44:38:13 – 00:44:56:19
Unknown
I also have a lot of information on my website. Mm-Hmm. Reiki organization those are some other great ways to just start to deepen, deepen your knowledge about Reiki in particular. Thank you so much for sharing this broad wealth of information that you have.

00:44:56:19 – 00:45:12:17
Unknown
I mean, you’ve dedicated so much time and effort to to delivering this, this offering to the world, and I just appreciate you being so generous with that information. Oh, my gosh, thanks for having me and giving me an opportunity to share.

00:45:13:13 – 00:45:30:10
Unknown
I really believe at this time in the world and everything that we’re going through that there’s never been more important time for this knowledge to get out there. Yes. And for people to have more tools to to take their power back and to spread peace and love.

00:45:30:19 – 00:45:47:06
Unknown
Right. Spreading peace and love to others is is so important right now, and we all have the power to be that beacon of light to our families and our friendships and our communities. And any relationship in anything we speak to others.

00:45:47:06 – 00:45:59:12
Unknown
We we have that ability and and that power to be the type of people that empower other people. Yes. And we need more of that. We need a lot more of that right now. So start to shift this tide.

00:45:59:12 – 00:46:14:03
Unknown
And I know that we will and I completely believe that we can and that it will happen. But if it’s ever something you’ve thought about or that resonated with you, start to dig deeper. That’s right. That’s right. You’re speaking my language now, Kareen.

00:46:14:03 – 00:46:32:05
Unknown
I love it. I actually started with that. Everyone thinks the chaos, but never needed anything more than peace and power. That’s right, exactly. That’s and, you know, that’s what our insides are guiding us to do. That’s what our inner wisdom is asking us to do.

00:46:32:17 – 00:46:47:01
Unknown
It’s that’s you mentioned earlier, if something feels bad, reduce its presence in your life. If something feels nourishing, increase its presence in your life. That’s what it comes down to. You know, let me, you know, honor those signals.

00:46:47:01 – 00:46:59:09
Unknown
We have to enrich our experience. That’s right. And we, you know, we talk about all these. I gave you that list of official tools that I use just, you know, I know people really like to hear those things.

00:46:59:09 – 00:47:11:23
Unknown
If there’s something, if you are always looking for four different things that they can do. But honestly, some of the best things that we can do to improve our joy is the basics, like hugging someone you love. Call them on the phone.

00:47:12:07 – 00:47:29:06
Unknown
Get outside in nature. Hug a tree. I hug a lot of trees. There’s an instant, instant change. They have studied the way the impact on our nervous system, at our heart rate and our own electromagnetic field. When you put your hands on a tree, tune into the pulse in your hands and how it changes.

00:47:29:15 – 00:47:42:21
Unknown
Yeah, there is a palpable difference. And I think anyone can feel that. Or the wind on your face, the sun on your face. I know it’s caught in a lot of the world right now. But you know, those are those are laugh with your kids play.

00:47:42:22 – 00:48:00:11
Unknown
Forget about forget about work for a little while. Do your favorite thing that’s running eating a delicious meal. You know it doesn’t matter what it is laying in your bed, just doing nothing. It doesn’t. The answer doesn’t always have to be something like meditation or yoga or, you know, a specific practice.

00:48:00:11 – 00:48:17:06
Unknown
Sometimes it’s just enjoying your life and taking the time to allow yourself to do that. That’s powerful, that’s powerful. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in to this episode of Refractive, remember that you can reach Corene at He***@************cy.com

00:48:17:10 – 00:48:34:17
Unknown
That’s FARMACY. And if you have any questions for me, also, don’t hesitate to reach out. You can find my information in the show notes. As you go out in the world and you encounter people who might be struggling throughout their day, always take advantage of the opportunity to aim your light.

Referenced in the episode:

Caroline Myss’ book: Sacred Contracts can be found here (the link is offered as a service only- Refractive earns no money from this link)

Information on Byron Katie can be found at TheWork.com

For similarly themed episodes, try Making Peace with our Dark Side, If I’m Angry with You, The Problem is Me, and Surrender to Greatness

To book a speaking engagement or to learn more about host Johnny Guidry’s coaching services, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com.

Episode transcript to follow, please excuse any errors from the transcription software.

Find more information about Tutti at TuttiTaygerly.com, and find her book Make Space to Lead by clicking here.

To book host Johnny Guidry for speaking, facilitation, or coaching, visit RefractiveCoaching.com.

For similarly themed episodes, try Surrender to Greatness, Owning the Turbulence with Jodi Akst, and Learning to Use Intuition.

Automatic transcript follows below; please excuse any misinterpretations by the transcription software.

 Hello, everyone, and welcome to another  episode of Refractive, I’m Johnny G. Today  I’m introducing you to Tutti Taygerly and she’s an executive leadership  coach and professional speaker. She supports CEOs and tech leaders to embrace their unique leadership style  to achieve professional impact. She’s spent  years  as a design leader at design firms, startups and large companies,  including Disney and Facebook. Before taking this turn  to supporting others on their path, she grew up in seven countries  on three continents. But now she settled in San Francisco  as a home base. She spends time  parenting two spirited girls. She obsessively reads,  and she looks forward to paddling out  for whatever the next wave brings. So Tutti welcome to Refractive.  I’m so happy to have you with us.  Thank you so much, Johnny.  And it’s always, I’d say,  like a little bit glowy and embarrassing at the same time to hear  people say lovely things about yourself. But that’s kind of the nature of the stuff  we deal with, right? It’s like the mixture of emotions  all together. Exactly?  Well, if it makes it any easier for you,  since all is really one, you can just pretend  I said it about myself. So. All right, I’m going to do that.  I’m going to picture, Yeah, I’m  going to picture you with all of that. That works, Johnny.  So everybody today  we’re talking about learning how to shift from doing to being. And, you know, if you’re a regular  listener of the show, this is a topic that harmonizes  with a lot of other episodes. And so this is something  that has been a passion for Tutti’s. She really focuses in her work  with other leaders to help them find a comfort zone in this  so that they can transform how they behave in the world so that the world responds  in a more lovely way to them. And so I thought that  this was going to be an amazing topic  for us to bring to the listeners today. It’s certainly something that’s applicable  across the board. And I wonder, Tutti, as we kick off this topic. What is the framework that you see for listeners as we kind of shift our mind into changing a pattern from doing to being? What does that even involve  at the most basic level? Yeah, I think that  as many of your listeners probably already know, a lot of this is observing yourself  and looking at, well, at patterns and behaviors and beliefs  you fall, you fall into. And one thing that I noticed  when I was listening to you is that for me and for many of the really high paced,  high achieving executives, startup founders,  all these people in tech in Silicon Valley trying to create better futures,  sometimes good, sometimes bad. I did work for Facebook, so I know that  there’s unintended consequences. But in this world and from my life. Many of us are so into do do do do do. Yeah.  What ran down your to do list?  Run to the meeting.  Next meeting in your calendar? And then from a corporate perspective,  getting these goals met milestones, lunches, releases  every what is it? three months, six months, every year. So when I talk about shifting  from doing to being, I think it depends where you already are.  Most of my clients and myself,  we are these perpetual motion machines, kind of like a claiming busyness  is this badge of honor. You know, how are you?  How are you?  Oh, I’m too busy.  I’m really busy. I’m swamped. How many times have people been familiar  with that, especially during  just the business of holidays? Right?  But other people, it might be shifting  from being to doing so. I think the framework is really knowing  where you are in this. Are you are  you able to pause and pay attention to heart? spirit? Or are you in this world of mind? And so much of our world really rewards  being so much of our modern world really rewards  being in the mind and the doing. So I think the framework of it  is wherever you are. Is this where you want to be and  how might you shift into different modes? So you know what?  You just said something  that has it’s so central to learning how to go inside  and listen to your highest knowing. But it’s something that I feel. People might not be exposed to until a bit further on  into their into their journeys. You said being in their minds,  being in the doing. And so I think to the casual person who’s maybe just  tuning in to this type of messaging,  like, wait, but going into my mind is not doing going into  my mind is the opposite of doing. I wonder if you could kind of shed  some light on your perspective on how going into your mind  is actually more doing than being. Oh, I love it. I love that catch.  Thank you, Johnny. So.  I’m going to use the framing  and context of the corporate world of tech, which is the one that I’m  very, very familiar with. And you know what, I’m even going to go  even further back into like the educational system  because I have kids in elementary and middle school when most of the time  when we’re going through school, we are using our minds to hit  the particular standards and success criteria  that someone else has set up for us. It’s kind of like,  All right, what do I do in school?  OK, I need to study.  I need to, I don’t know, memorize all the  state capitals in the United States. Whatever it is, I just need to think,  process, use, logic, use reason and doing  that will help me hit that test score, make that grade  get into that best university. And then similarly, in in the world  of in the corporate world, I was used to, it was really about looking  very rigorously at all the data in front of you  and using your mind and logic and arguments to be like,  All right, what do I do with that data? If this happens,  then that and very much like, all right, we’re going to make our decisions  based on logic and rational thinking and minds. So I would thank you so much for that,  for that call out because I can realize  that sounds a little bit confusing. And I might have confused your listeners  even more, actually. But, you know,  but I think that this we’re talking about  like next level awareness, right? Awareness  that when your mind takes over,  when you know, when one of my first spiritual coaches,  she called it the monkey mind, right? So when the monkey mind takes over  like you’re not, you’re not in your center of being right,  you’re you’re. And this is why so many people resist  developing a meditation practice because inevitably  you sit down in a quiet place. You put great effort  into creating a peaceful environment and and you’re all comfortable.  You sit down and it’s like, Oh my God,  I forgot such and such at the supermarket. Oh my gosh, I promised someone I was going to reach out and I never answered it. Oh my goodness, what happened here?  And you know what would be  a really good idea for my next podcast episode, you know, and the mind  kind of like flows in this way. And it’s like,  Ah, I tried so hard to be in in this meditation process,  and I can’t stop my thoughts. So you know what this is? I just can’t meditate.  I can’t do it.  I’m not going to do it anymore.  I’m going to have to find something else.  And that’s it.  And so it’s frustrating  when you get caught up in the prison of the monkey mind without. I don’t know without  maybe learning a helpful system to welcome the monkey mind and and still find a way to be in the being in your fields, in working with tech, working with startups  where you know you’re working  hours a day around the clock to get  like these new systems up and running. How do you balance that chattering mind with the need to go inside  and find serenity? Yeah, I love that  you bring up monkey mind.  That’s like the best analogy  to kind of nail it for for your listeners, then that’s perfect.  It’s just a really great way to know that  when you try to meditate, there are just  all these crazy thoughts going. So this might be a little bit next level,  but most of the people that I work with, their minds are so brilliant. Mm-Hmm.  They are like this super focused high  achievers. Their minds work wonders and miracles. Yeah.  And what they’ve been used to doing for  most of their careers is using these brilliant, brilliant minds to solve the next big thing,  the next big possibility. That’s what they do for these long hours,  like maybe up to  hours a day, and they might have been doing this  for months and years in their life. And that is like a wonderful,  single-minded focus and why I  why I alluded to kind of this mind. Being part of the doing is that it’s  almost like an overall exercise muscle. When you try it,  you get really, really good at it because that’s the system  that we are in to develop our minds. That’s what we do in school  that, you know, that’s what we do at work and what gets really hard for the for for the people I work with  is to stop and yell into the emotions, the relationships, the fact that you can’t  work completely alone. Yes, there may be a couple of examples  of lone geniuses, but I think the work that we do now in  our world is too complex. It’s impossible to do it all alone.  So there comes a point in time  where even with this single minded big, brilliant mind and focus, many people  reach a ceiling knowing that, all right, something’s stopping me.  I can’t.  I can’t get the stuff that I want  to get done. The people around me aren’t doing what  I want them to do, and that often times is is the first trigger point  for when people seek out. Wait, let me find,  is there a different way? Mm-Hmm.  That is typically when they’ll seek out  a coach, when they’ll look for a path and they’ll be like, Wait,  I’m hitting the limitations of my mind. You know,  I keep doing all this stuff,  but yet I can’t break through in this iterative process. What is it? What’s another way to help me is that help a little bit, whether with that example. Do you have your own personal meditation practice or have you found a different  kind of way to harness being? So a couple of different ways for me  personally, the loving kindness meditation  works best for me. Like, I think that for me, this  this background of being silence can be terrifying.  With this background of doing that  is silence can be terrifying. Yes. To me,  it really helps to have a series of words, a series of mantras to help  be little prompts to say, All right. You know, if I’m thinking of someone,  a loved person, a loved one and really wishing them  happiness and peace and, you know, ease and content  and kindness to themselves. It helps focus a little bit  this sense of meditation. So that works really well for me,  and I found that to be a really good entry way  into into meditation for various people. Yeah, absolutely.  And you know, I started meditating regularly for the first time, maybe three years ago,  and I started using an app. So this was back in the day.  Let me see if you remember this, too.  So back in the day,  you would go to Starbucks, and every every week  there was a new little card that they would put out,  and it was either the song of the week or the app of the week,  and you got something for free. Right.  And so many of the apps I never use on  my iPhone came from those things, but I. Love it.  one of the things that that  that was amazing. It was this app called Meditation Studio. And when I downloaded it  and I looked at it, I saw that  there were all of these guided meditations that were as short as two or three minutes and went as long as, like  minutes. And they were organized by topic. And I just, I don’t know.  I just I found the idea of like a five or eight minute meditation  on a topic that felt right to me. I found it a safe way  to start this journey, and I wasn’t  intending to start this journey. Like it wasn’t like I was like,  OK, I need to learn how to meditate. Let me figure this out.  It was just this app,  this beautiful piece of assistance I got from the universe  that was like, Hey, why don’t you consider  meditating for the first time? And it made it a safer space for me. And after doing guided meditations,  eventually I became curious about, Well, what would it be  like to meditate in silence? And, you know, still, to this day, even though I’ve dedicated  a lot of focus to it, I’ve gone for two weeks stays in Buddhist retreats  where you know your entire focus is on kind of being in the moment  and and quieting the noise. Even today, I still. I still have not  reprogramed the monkey mind, I hear from others that eventually over  time, like you said, the muscle develops and your mind  which never stops chattering, but it becomes less chatty over time.  It becomes less of a of a of a  of a automatic reflex through training it  through going into the silence. So there’s so many ways to kind of dig  into moving, from doing into being and whether it’s guided meditation,  whether it’s going out, walking on trails or walking in your city’s  green space or whatever, the case is . So many ways to do that.  And so what has  how do you what does it look like  when you’re shifting into the being and out of the doing? Yeah. Nah, I’m gonna. Can I actually circle back  to another point from the floor before I come back to this to this  this shifting question  because I think they’re related. Many of us, you know,  have this vision that like, you’re either a meditator  or you’re not right, are you someone who can actually sit in silence  and get to like the completely quiet mind?  And, you know, do you have this huge shift  from doing to being, I don’t think that  that’s actually the case. You know, one of my  when my biggest teacher is Shirzad Shameen was the first one who actually said to me  that, Hey, you can.  You can silence your mind  in a two minute meeting,  even in a two minute session, even while you’re in the meeting,  even while you’re interacting with people. It’s more about focusing on your body  and your senses. It’s more than just breathing.  It can be something that you do  with your eyes open to really notice a vivid, a vivid color  to really listen to someone’s voice, to really listen to,  like the timber of the voice of someone else  that you’re working with or talking to. And this can happen in in a millisecond. You know, this can happen  like in a millisecond where you just. zone in  and focus on, let’s say,  the energy of our conversation together. And for me, this was transformational  because you didn’t need  minutes a day or  minutes a day,  you didn’t need this complete perfect meditation mat and cushion in this special altar place for it. Don’t get me wrong, like I have those and those are beautiful times  when you can completely devote to it. But all of these can be integrated  into your regular, into your regular day. Yeah, it can be,  you know, taking a couple of minutes, maybe in while we’re on Zoom now,  but most of the time. But if you’re in the office  before a big meeting, stepping into the bathroom or five minutes and sitting there breathing and grounding  and kind of being and kind of finding that intention for how you want to be in  the next meeting has the doing. Most of my clients, they have the agenda,  they have the presentation, they have the talking points,  they have all that. They know how to do all that.  I help them really center  before the meeting with the intention, all thinking about  how do they want to feel in the meeting ? How do they want to be in the meeting?  And at the end of the meeting,  what do they want everyone else to walk away with?  Yeah, because I think that the reality is. What human beings are still forgetful,  not forget they the content, what we talked about, but it’s the feeling that people  will remember and walk away from. And that’s the layer of being that I think  is often often forgotten amidst  the busyness of getting everything done. I hear you talking about kind of living  intentionally like that’s that’s what I hear  beneath the surface of what you’re saying as you help people kind of say,  what do you want people to walk away  with after this conversation, you know? And that’s a super powerful place  to start from. And I wonder, like what led you to this? I don’t know.  This idea that living by intention  is how you tap into power and. Well, the story that I think  is kind of funny about this because I used to be a designer for many,  many years and there’s many design skill and for digital products,  so there’s many design skills, which is,  you know, what is like color theory, what is hierarchy,  what are the interactions and use cases? You want people there to go there,  you know, even in that Starbucks example, someone sat there, hopefully a design  or some sort of people and said, Hey, you know, how do we get people  to spend more time in our stores? How do we get people to keep coming back?  And so I came up with the idea, Let’s  do you know what it was that music of love Song of the Day, Song of the Week  or App of the Day, App of the week. And then there was probably  some type of execution. How do we make this happen  and how does light your phone know this had  what happens when people open the app? But the number one superpower  I learned of products and experiences that became successful  and really like touched people’s hearts and got people to use  it was intentionality. Yes. The question  we would ask them, all the designers and  the people on my teams would be all right. You know, let’s say you have a feature,  a product idea. What’s your intention?  How people interact with the product,  how they feel afterwards. What’s your intention like? Is it?  It’s surely not your first example, which is to have an iPhone  littered with useless apps. But what if? Starbucks happened to introduce you  to one transformative life changing out because they just  provided options for you. Yeah,  so I’ve always known about intentionality in my my first career,  in my professional life because like, that’s where  some of the magic in the sizzle happens  when you really hit that moment like, wow, bam, I actually hit it with the intention behind a product. And it was only probably about maybe two or three years ago  that I realized that this same intentionality  that I poured my heart and set into making products  that so many people in Silicon Valley pour into making light,  beautiful products and experiences. That intentionality is often so wasted  because we don’t point it at ourselves. Yeah, we don’t pointed out,  how do we want to be the next meeting? How do I want to be today?  How do I want to be in the next month  or in ? And so that for me was  a little bit of the magical bridge  that, like many of us, have these skills. We can pour them into aspects of our work. How do we do it for ourselves? Yes.  Well, this is a this is a really powerful  point that you bring up, and I want to I want to go back  and actually repeat it because I really  want to bring focus to it. Let’s  see if I can paraphrase what you said it was that  this intentionality can be wasted  if we don’t learn to also apply it to ourselves. Is that what you said?  Yeah, and that’s beautiful.  Yeah, wow. That’s really amazing. And you know, I look at… Yeah, I just look at… And listen- All roads lead to Rome,  every path is perfect. This is something that I believe  every path is perfect, even when my path leads me to prison, or even when my path leads me to create  great pain in the life of another person. You know, I truly believe in. I truly believe that every path brings us what we need to be able  to grow into our highest and best self. And so but I can  also, in a loving way,  look back at the years I spent desperately treading water  to keep my nose up, you know, above the water level,  desperately struggling just to feel Minimally appropriate, right, just to feel minimally acceptable  in the world and and- It’s so amazing that I can look back  now, and it’s almost like looking at a small animal in a cage  who is like desperately trying to ensure its survival  when in reality I’m going to feed it all the time, like I’m  taking care of it, right?  Like, it doesn’t need to struggle. It doesn’t need to sit in anxiety  to get its needs met. I’m going to take care of it, like I’m  going to make sure it has every need met. And I’m like, that little animal  in the cage that is like, Oh my goodness,  I need to lay out the perfect plan I need to surround myself  with with just the right people. I need to have this level of income.  I need to have this level of prestige  in my life. And if I do these  things, maybe, maybe, maybe with a little luck, I can glimpse the face of happiness  for a few months. And in reality, I don’t need any of that because I am a spark of the creator. I am my birthright, my birthright. What I was born for is to be amazing. Like, I don’t need to work to be mediocre. I already am amazing. It’s like I’m Superman dressing up  like Clark Kent trying to be average, but I’m Superman. I don’t need to like  why I try to be average. I’m amazing  and I’m not amazing because I’m Johnny G. I’m amazing because that’s  what I was born into in this world. And it’s just the idea of letting  go of these trappings. Letting go of these concepts  that act as limits and stepping into the light of like of my greatness,  stepping into the light of your greatness and like just realizing  the power that is in. Being on this planet. Yeah. Absolutely.  And I would also I completely agree  with everything that you’re saying,  Johnny, and I would also say that. The stuff around us that you kind of gave us examples making a certain income,  you know, having certain things,  getting a promotion, getting a title had actually argue  that they’re they’re necessary. They’re essentially pieces  of feedback to us that the way  we’re showing up in the world, whether at work, whether  with relationships, that it’s working. Yeah, yeah.  Because otherwise, you know,  it is a little bit insular. This sit there  in, you know, in in your own light without getting that feedback in the loops  from the outside world. And some of us, I know many,  many people who can feel bad because they worry that  craving that feedback from  the outside world can mean that they’re selfish, that they’re materialistic,  that they’re focused on the wrong thing by kind of go  back. It’s really that balance. It’s that balance, both between the being  and the doing. It is knowing  your own confidence, your own strengths,  your own light, your own brilliance. I mean, you know, you got  what can you do but look at like,  you know, a three or four year olds, you know, like how completely happy  and confident they are with themselves. Right? Yes.  But we exist within the world. We exist within systems. Yes. And as we,  you and I first started talking about, it’s it’s the support and service  we bring into the world. Yeah.  Those other the other trappings, the  you know, the money,  the promotions, the titles there, whatever it is that we’re looking to ,  as are our goals and external validation. I argue they have a big point  and they have a big part to play in this as well because we are in service  to the world and others and it kind of pulls back,  which I love to  this little balance of being versus doing. I think in each particular moment in time, point in your voice,  it point in your life.  You might be more tips  to one versus another. And I know for me, for much of my life  and most of the people that I serve and work with, the tip is %,  almost like % towards the doing. And it’s  never I think it’s never going to be /. Or it might be for for a second,  for a moment, for five minutes. Yeah, but I don’t think it’s  about achieving that perfect balance. It’s about realizing what the context is  for where you are at this particular point in time and dancing and playing with it  and not getting stuck %. Yeah, in the doing. Yeah.  And that’s really insightful.  You know, I tend to, you know, I tend to like, fall into, let’s say, concepts  when I’m when I’m in an episode and as concepts like I bat for the  I bat for the outfield, right? Like, I’m hitting as hard as I can to go  as far into the concept as I can. And you know,  there are people who are able to kind  of separate themselves from the world and focus on inward development  and let go of all attachment. And there are people like that  in the world.  There’s there’s there’s a few people,  but you know, that’s not what most lives  look like today on this planet. Most lives  look like finding that that balance. Go ahead. What were you going to say?  I was going to say I would, and I’m  a bit of a challenger, but I would say, you have that when you go to your two week  Buddhist retreat. Many of us have that, you know, when  we take like a day to do this or a week to do this when our single minded focus  is self-development learning . So probably not for  days of our life,  but I think we can all attain that. Sorry to interrupt you. Or at least.  I love that,  because here’s here’s the thing, right? We talked about intentionality  a few minutes ago and that the key for me to this, it’s  not how perfectly you release attachment to the,  you know, conditions of the world. Like, that’s not what’s key.  What’s key is my motivations, what what drives  my desire to do this right? Because it doesn’t matter,  even if I were to dedicate my entire life to, let’s say, soul growth. If I’m doing it out of a feeling of insecurity, like if I don’t do this,  then I’m not a good person. If I don’t do this,  then I’m not a good soul. If I don’t do this, then I’m not.  I’m not, you know, meeting the standards  I’ve set. Well,  then maybe you might as well go work. You might as well go work as a startup  and grind your head against the wheel because it’s the same thing.  It’s the motivations is your  is your is your effort in your job  to work – hours a day out of love? Or is it out of fear if it’s out of love? Work as hard as you can give  everything you can to. You have- Have nothing left, because it it  it it’s about it’s about that, it’s about that intentionality. It’s about that intentionality.  If I’m going to renounce the world  and live as a hermit to focus on my soul  growth out of fear. I’m missing the boat.  I’m missing the whole point of this.  If I’m doing it out of love, it’s that  what my loving guidance tells me to do. Great  if I’m going to go open a community center to help underserved youth  and I’m doing it all out of fear. Yeah. Other people might be helped,  but for my own soul growth,  I’m missing the point. So am I doing out of love  or am I doing out of fear? Am I trying to be be out of love? Or am I trying to be out of fear? And if I can answer that in an honest,  clear way, they’re there. My cell has been unlocked  and I walk into freedom. That’s what I believe.  Absolutely. Absolutely.  I completely agree with you.  And one bridge  that I sometimes talk to people about because some people may be like,  What does it mean  to be doing this out of love?  I don’t know what this means. What does it mean to be doing out of fear?  I’m always fearful. I’m always anxious.  When I when bridge to that  that I have to talk to people about is to to monitor your own energy. Now, as you’re going through the day  thinking about your past day, your past week, what were the moments  where you had the most energy? And I’m using the term energy  because I can mean different things  to different people, to an introvert. That energy might be a sense of inward  quiet contentment with someone else. It might be like the excitement  to someone else. It it, it might be pure joy. So what I look at is- track your energy. And you know what your baseline is. Nobody else does.  You know someone else like everyone’s  baseline is different. So look at your energy at work.  Look at where time time disappears because you’re in a sense of flow  and fun. Yes. And find those moments and figure out  how you can do more of it to your example. I know many people who can work  – hour days and they can go for months, sometimes  even years, because this energy is there. This joy, this this service,  this being in doing this from love, not not fear this this nourishment there. And then at some point in time,  it may switch.  So a lot of it is watching that,  that energy level. Oh, see, OK.  So I didn’t even expect  to go into this area, but I love it. I love that the conversation led here  that nothing is forever. Nothing is forever.  This, too, shall pass.  And when we say this, too shall pass.  It’s like the good stuff passes  and the bad stuff passes. And so it may be perfectly appropriate that this piece of living  that may have been intense, that may have been the norm for weeks,  months or years, that is perfect. And then one day, like you  just kind of feel it’s time for a change. And like,  that doesn’t mean something is wrong. It doesn’t mean something is wrong  because what was normal yesterday  doesn’t feel normal today, right? Doesn’t feel like my normal today.  And again, that intentionality,  that being that that awareness is how we key into that.  And I imagine I know for my clients  and I’m sure for yours, that’s most of the reason why people seek help is that they… Their signals Indicate that what’s going on in their life now doesn’t fit. And the question is like,  how could this not fit? This was carefully architected  based on the best information  I had for years and now it doesn’t fit. Something’s wrong.  Yeah, yeah, we do that.  We self-flagellate. We’re like, Oh, something’s wrong.  There must be something wrong with me. I must be crazy.  Like, What is wrong with this now?  And unfortunately, so many times  we’re stuck in the same pattern. Yeah, yeah.  Hopefully, can  I circle back to a question  you asked earlier, which was  how do I help transform and get into go into from from doing to being  one of the things that has always nourished and soothe my soul  since I discovered it in my late twenties? Is it surfing because it gets me outside? It gets me in the rhythms of the ocean  and it gets me into an atmosphere that’s almost completely uncontrollable  because unlike maybe many other sports  or exercise or activities, even snowboarding, which I love,  the wave is always different. The weather conditions  are always different.  The wind,  everything is very, very different. And for many, many years decades, it was the one thing in my life  where I had very little control. I wasn’t very good at it,  but I kept doing it because there was something about it  that was just nourishing and soothing. And one of the metaphors that I use in in a book  that I wrote, which is make space to lead, where I share a lot of the shift  from doing to being one of the one of the acronyms  that I use to help people  shift is the acronym of SURF. Everybody grab a pen, right?  Because we’re about to drop some wisdom  here.  Go for it. Jot some wisdom.  So S is Stop  this like whatever patterns, whatever activity, whatever frantic ness that you’re in? Just stop for a moment.  Just stop. U is to understand. So go inward. Ask yourself questions, be curious, be playful and be like,  What is going on here? Why is this happening?  You know, why am I?  Why am I beating up on myself? You know, the R for me is “Re-” Putting your own word.  There’s a part of me  that really does hate acronyms, so I like this  choose your own adventure piece. We do.  We think rebel, reinvent, recreate  whatever really it is. And the more I can think of, the better, because the more I think of you think of.  Like, what’s the what’s the objective  of like the “Re”? going back and and going back to consider a new way, a new framework. So what’s the  what’s the objective of that? Open, it’s  too open to new and different perspectives to realize that the story that you’d been  telling yourself may not be the only one. Typically,  when we’re in these stages, we’re stuck. So rather than continuing to barrel  through in that same direction, you want to stop.  You want to understand.  And you just want to reevaluate, reveal. Just go back to the stories  you were telling yourself and find a bunch of new ones. You don’t have to be tied to them.  You don’t have to believe them. It’s kind of opening up to the new place,  new possibilities and choices and perspectives.  Oh, it’s beautiful. OK, great. And the last one,  the last one, which is my favorite  and the reason why I went on this long story is what you were talking about  earlier helped trigger this. The last one is F and  that is force and flow, OK, because in each particular moment in time, you might need more of one thing than the other. Yeah, you might need the force, which I call the structure, the focus, the rigor.  You know, that ability to maybe  grind at work, that twelve to  hour days, that use of your mind, just like those forceful structures to keep going. Or you might need the flow.  You might need to ease it up a bit.  You might need to take a vacation, take a couple of days and go to a Buddhist retreat. And that question of force versus flow for each, for each instant, it might be one. It might be the other. It might be bits of both. But for  me, that’s where the SURF acronym  really comes in- Stop, Understand. Revisit.  Make a choice.  F: What do I need right now?  Is it more force? Is it more flow? Is it bits and pieces of each,  and you follow the energy to feel  which one it is? It’s a really, you know, as  you were kind of going through the letters and you got to F.  I loved the idea of force and flow  because in my mind, I’m imagining that  when you’re paddling out, you’re actually developing a process to overcome  the strength of the waves, right? Because you need to go against the waves  to get out to a place where you can catch one  right where you can get away. And then when it comes to the flow,  you’re no longer fighting the direction of the water.  Now you’re harnessing the strength  of the direction of the water. Look,  I’ve never thought about it in that way,  and that’s perfect and beautiful. Yeah. Oh, that’s amazing.  So very metaphor. Thank you for sharing it.  I think it’s important.  Just so you know on the YouTube,  you’re going to now have like letters across your face for this section  where it’s going to be like. Perfect.  And so if, if if listeners have really felt a connection  with your message and want to learn more about how you impact the world,  where can they find you? Where can they learn more?  Yeah, you can find me online. My website is TuttiTaygerly.com T U T T I T A Y G E R L Y  Yeah,  you can find me on Instagram @Tutti And if you want to learn more,  I have a book make space to lead, which is also makespacetolead.com  Wait, hold on.  Did you just say that your Instagram  is like just your first name? My Instagram is just my first name,  too. Yes. Holy cow.  Like what? Like, Wow, that is amazing what that is. I’ve never met someone  who actually had the Instagram handle  of just their first name. That is fantastic.  The funny thing  the funny thing about that is Tutti means “all” in Italian.  So I get inadvertently tagged so often in Italian, where someone’s like, Oh yeah, OK,  there’s another Italian message.  So it’s hilarious. I love it. I love the things that I get tagged  on. It’s fabulous. So well,  thank you so much for being with us. I just I feel energized after our conversation. It just feels- we use this word a couple of times, but it feels nourishing  and I’m really grateful it does. I’m similarly grateful  that we were able to do this together. All right, everybody, I am- I just appreciate very much you tuning in  to Refractive and remember, as always, go out, add to the world, do your best  and never forget to aim your light. Thank you, everybody. Take care.  

Learn more about Johnny at www.RefractiveCoaching.com and www.RefractivePodcast.com.

For similarly-themed episodes, try The Ancient Truths of Acceptance & PLINKO, If I’m Angry w/You the Problem Is Me, and Spiritual Healing through Toxic Relationships w/Jean Atman.

Reach Johnny G at Re***************@***il.com.

Episode transcript:

Welcome to a new episode of Refractive. I’m your host, Johnny G.  Look, I’m sitting here  in this amazing office and  I have this enormous mug of herbal tea and I have this incredible candle – basil and green tea scented candle. And look, if anybody tells you  I’m not living my best life, you can tell them they are mistaken. So. I’m just full of  gratitude, and I’m glad for you  showing up to listen to another episode, and I hope that today  this message will resonate.I had a conversation  a few weeks back with a friend of mine, and he is young, queer, Hispanic. He’s soft spoken. He has a nose ring. And he was telling me  about a particular incident that had happened a few days  before, he walked into a supermarket. And just after passing  through the front door, there was another customer  who was an older guy, this older white guy, and he looked at him and in a joking, loud way  said, Hey fella, it looks like  you got something in your nose. So commenting on his nose ring like that. And he talked about how hard it was to Be surprised like that  by that comment, to be shocked and to realize that other people are looking at him  and that he might not fit this mainstream definition of what a-I don’t know what a a certain  type of person is going to look like. And it was it was hard for him. It threw him into a bit of a  of a frustration. Now, to give you some context, this friend of mine,  I told you he’s Hispanic. He was raised in a traditional conservative Christian home. I said also that he is he’s not straight and that created some, I’ll just say complexity for him growing up and also white people and white culture  played an outsized role in this person’s development as a kid. More so than perhaps  in some other examples. And so he’s sensitive to how he fits into the white world and the mainstream world and the straight world and the conservative world. And it’s just a very  loaded experience for him. And so this comment identifying him as “other,” as not normal. It was really triggering for him and it made him feel so uncomfortable. And I have to say that The idea of being publicly and passive aggressively put into a box that you don’t want to be  in by a stranger In front of other strangers, That’s a hard experience to go through. And even if this person was teasing or joking, maybe it wasn’t direct,  really aggressive and hateful language. But it’s humiliating  and it’s meant to draw attention how different you are from me and what I see as normal. You are not mainstream. I am mainstream. And therefore it’s  OK for me to publicly comment on how different you are  and to make it a joke. And there will be no consequences  for me to make this joke. In fact, I expect you and everyone  around me to laugh about this. So it’s a really awkward situation. And look,  I’m not saying that this old dude had some kind of consciously  mean-spirited agenda. I’m not coming at this from, you know, the progressive left  perspective of wokeness and this. That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is that this guy felt it was his place  to publicly call attention o how a stranger’s appearance  didn’t fit into a traditional box. And he covered it up with some Febreeze of humor to make it OK.And he expected that everyone in earshot would be OK with it and support it  and find it appropriate. So me listening to my friend  tell me this story and my friend had no idea how how deeply  this story would resonate with me. So my friend’s telling me this,  even with all my spiritual work, all of my attempts  to elevate my perspective to a higher to a ,foot  view of things on this planet, I was still shocked  by the gall of this person. And I found myself  imagining what I would do and the sharp witted things  I might say if I got called out in that kind of public,  passive aggressive, fake joke kind of way. It’s it’s a complicated difficult experience to be in. Now, society  tells us that it is our right, but even more importantly,  it’s our responsibility to defend ourselves. It is my responsibility to speak up if someone disgraces me and protect my, I don’t know, protect my status, protect my ego, protect my place in the world, and that if I don’t defend myself, I’m even partially to blame  for the next time this guy hurts someone  because I didn’t speak up. So that is a common perspective  in our society. If someone pushes you around,  you have to push back if you don’t, Not only are you disrespecting  yourself, but you are approving for this person to continue to hurt others. I don’t think you’d be surprised  to hear me say that that’s a it’s a pretty common perspective  for us in the world we live in. You have to put him in his place  in order to serve the greater good. So I asked my friend,  how did you respond to this? What did you do? And he told me, Well,  I wanted to snap back. But you know what? I just don’t need to bring in  that kind of negativity into my life. So I didn’t respond. And I just went on my way. And it’s like, wow. This is our superpower. That’s exactly what I told my friend. That is where your power lies. That is your superpower,  the ability to be hurt. And yet choose to do no harm. Not only is this our superpower, this is exactly how we heal the soul. I want to say that again, not only is it our superpower, But the ability to be hurt and to choose not to hurt back, Is how we heal the soul. This is a concept we hear in Lots of religious contexts across across spiritual paths,  all throughout history. The idea of doing no harm. Choosing not to fight. And I want to  maybe take a second to clarify. You know, It doesn’t count as soul healing if the reason we don’t hurt back the person is because we’re scared and we just go to cower. Because we’re shocked by the shame and the hurt  and the fear of what’s happening. I’m not saying that it’s wrong  for us to to experience it that way. But that’s not the spiritual growth  I’m talking about. If someone, let’s say, attacks us verbally and we retreat out of fear or shame,  hey, that’s fine. Like,  that’s a totally reasonable response. But that’s not the spiritual growth  that I’m talking about when I say choosing  not to fight and doing no harm. I mean, in the moment in the split second, weighing  the options of how we can respond and intentionally proactively choosing  love over fear, choosing love over chaos and discord  and hurting other people. Choosing love over vengeance and ego protection. Doing no harm Is taking the hit and seeing the situation  from a higher perspective, realizing that you know what,  the only thing that’s in danger right now is my ego and my ego doesn’t need to be protected. If my safety was at risk, maybe that’s a different situation for me. But if the only thing at risk is looking powerful in front of strangers, Then you know what, I can choose the higher perspective  of this and simply remove myself from further painful Interactions with this person And choose not to put him in his place. Choose not to make a show of my own power. That is revolutionary for us in our world! Out of compassion for both this guy, And compassion for me, And my soul and my spirit. Simply moving away. And finding the love To wish him and me peace. I already mentioned that we see this guidance against vengeance, against continuing the cycle of harm. We see this across  lots of spiritual traditions. Maybe the most common that comes up in our world is the idea of turning the other cheek from Jesus’s sermon on the Mount. And but, you know,  we see it elsewhere in the twelve steps, which is part of my experience  in the twelve steps. There is what we call a promise  in the literature that says we have ceased  fighting everyone and everything.in Hindu, There’s actually a concept called Ahimsa,  which declares that fighting is the last option that we are willing to resort to, that we are going to try to work this out  every way other than fighting  before we get to that point. And then we also have  this concept of karma where when I do things,  it has to be balanced. It’s coming back  and that when I don’t balance my karmic energy in this life,  then I’m going to get another life, which will give me an opportunity,  the same soul to balance it again. So the idea is,  if I’ve hurt someone, then you know, I need to have  that experience poured on me. But I can’t hurt someone back again. Right? I’ve got to stop the cycle of the pain. And, you know, one of my favorite writings on this idea of doing no harm, choosing not to fight  comes from Byron, Katie and you know, I talk about Byron  Katie in almost every episode. She is amazing. I am reading a book of hers right now  called Names for Joy. I strongly recommend it. But one of her quotes  that she uses in a lot of her books is that no one would ever hurt another person if they weren’t confused. No one would ever cause pain for another person  if they weren’t confused. And so this idea of vengeance  is not necessary because the people who hurt us are doing so from a place of confusion. They don’t understand what’s happening. They don’t understand the ramifications  of what’s really going on. And so can we take a higher view? Can we take a higher view that whether someone realizes it or not, even when someone doesn’t realize it, that if they do something harmful to me, they too, they are in some sort of spiritual, physical, mental or emotional pain, that they would not be hurting me  if they weren’t suffering in some kind of way. So can I remove myself From the possibility of being hurt again. So that’s protection, right,  because choosing not to fight doesn’t mean  standing there and getting beaten. Choosing not to fight  doesn’t mean I’m an emotional doormat. But can I distance myself from this without retaliating, without needing to cause pain to this other person,  without needing to have the final word so that my ego feels that I’m man enough, that I’m powerful enough? You know. I believe that The experience of being hurt Is a powerful gift. I heard once that Pain Is an exquisite gift. So I believe that being hurt is a compassionate right, get this, right? So being hurt is being treated with compassion. By the Universe, by the Creator, by God, by whoever,  whatever word you want to use to remind us that we ourselves are sparks of the creator that we are pieces of God. In these human bodies, so being hurt is an opportunity for us to realize, hey, this Earth body stuff is small potatoes. This is small potatoes, low stakes poker that we’re playing here on Earth. OK. Because what’s really important is this eternal part of me, what really matters is this the soul? This soul that is a part of God, it comes from God,  it’s a drop of the ocean that is God. And this soul is not subject to mean jokes from a stranger in the supermarket. And this soul is not subject to being humiliated  when my spouse walks out on me and this soul is not subject to Having my ego  stepped on by another person, that’s small stuff, that’s small stuff. That’s life with a lowercase L. And so when we are hurt, when we experience tragedy, pain, loss of a loved one, when we go through this global pandemic, that makes everyone uncomfortable, It is an opportunity. To look into our true essence And remember that our ultimate goal, despite the density of this illusion that we have,  that we are just Earth creatures, that our ultimate goal is to awaken  to the fact that we are so much bigger than this short life on Earth that this that in the span of eternity, These years or so that we live are less than a blip. And can we find the wonder And the perfection and the excitement of this experiment? We’re in this Earth experiment that we’re in, and   even in the face of tragedy. Can we remember our true identity? And anchor our serenity in that true identity? When we’re able to do that,  that is our superpower, the ability to pull from a higher perspective  and say, no, I will not retaliate. I will not cause another person pain even if they deserve it  by society’s standards. I don’t need to do that because every time I hurt another person, I hurt me too. So I will find the place of love  that is deep inside of me, and I will wish that person peace  and healing, not in a sarcastic way, But in a genuine way that I will see that this other person is also a spark of the Creator, that this other person  is also a sliver of God who is in this Earth  body and who is confused. And it don’t need to make things worse. I will just move on and I will find the love. Now, look, I talk a big game, and this is I mean, this is advanced stuff, right? This is not easy. This is the hardest thing. I’m talking about like advanced level spirituality in order to have this be our response in the face of hardship. And it requires a solid foundation of spiritual work. In order to have this natural response of choosing intentionally Not to continue a cycle of harm, but rather to See every other personas innocent Sparks of the creator  and respond from a place of love. It takes a solid foundation. So what’s required, right? What do you have to do in order  to have the spiritual muscle, the spiritual fitness  to respond in this way? Well, there’s a couple of things. first of all, this concept has to resonate  with you and I, as I was coming up with the outline for this episode, I’m like,  Oh my God, I’m going to lose listeners. I’m going to have people walk away from Refractive Podcast-because our whole lives. We are told  that it is not only appropriate, but it is necessary to defend ourselves. And I’m telling you today that that is B.S.. If this does not resonate with you, then you know what? That’s fine, that’s fine. That means that this just might not be  your episode. Your experience on this planet is wired in a very particular way. To allow you to accomplish whatever your mission is in life,  so it’s fine. Infinite Intelligence arranged our series of experiences on this Earth so that you have a chance to respond. In just the right way. So listen, if you disagree with this, that’s totally beautiful and it’s perfect, and that’s fine. Now. If this does resonate with you, then in my opinion, here’s a couple of things that are Helpful in building a spiritual life that is capable of finding perfection in what we would typically call  painful experiences. So number one, you need to have faith  that there is something larger. You have to believe in something  larger than this Earth life. If there is nothing larger than this Earth life, then why on earth should  you ever hold yourself back from Earth? Security and Earth security can be ego that can be finances  that can be whatever, right? So if, if, if, if, if it all ends with death,  which is a perfectly valid perspective in our society, I’m  not criticizing that perspective at all. But if it all ends with death,  this is not going to make sense and it’s not going to be  worth your trouble. So in order toto choose not to fight, you have to have faith  that there is something bigger going on. So that’s, in my opinion, the first step. Another important perspective is a belief that my value. My validity on this planet is not contingent on other people. If I believe that my value is contingent  upon other people and their perspectives, how they see me,  what they do, how they treat me, then this doesn’t make sense. So cultivating a perspective that your value is independent. Of other people is essential to coming to this point. Another important  foundational element, in my opinion. And of course, you may have other ideas, I would love to hear that in the show comments, but that. It takes a certain perspective to experience the emotional response to whatever happened,  whether that is rage, shame, sorrow, humiliation, you know, whatever emotional response rises up. So to have a perspective that, OK,  I see this emotional response happening inside of me and I realize that that emotion  is not a trustworthy guide. For how to react right now. So again, the perspective to realize that my emotions are not necessarily trustworthy guides for how to behave. And then willingness to forgive. Willingness to forgive, To acknowledge that we are all fractured souls, we are all, Imperfect, hurt beings, damaged beings  who are executing our life missions, and that while we do that,  we hurt other people. It’s just what we do, right? It’s just what we do. So. Willingness to forgive others  when they hurt me, because hurting people is just part of what Earth life is. You can’t you can’t be perfect in that. So these are the four foundational steps to this:. Faith that there is something larger than this, just this Earth life,. A belief that my value is  independent of other people,. A perspective that my emotions are not trustworthy  guides for my behavior. And . A willingness to see beyond, to forgive other people when they hurt me Because they don’t understand. And we all do it. That’s a lot. Like I said, that’s  that’s a advanced spirituality. This is not spirituality , right? This is like the level classes and It’s tough. It’s tough. You know, a topic that you’ve heard me talk about before, And that’s very dear to me, I think acceptance is a big part of this -acceptance. I see acceptance as another word for love. You know, I’ve mentioned this before, that acceptance is love. Seeing a person or a situation as it is and not wishing it were somehow different. Whew! It’s hard. You know, I had a, I had someone that I used to be close with pass away a few, a few, maybe about two months ago, and this person died under-well, this person committed suicide in a jail after a lot of struggle With addiction. And not…I don’t know what went through  this person’s mind. Before he killed himself. But, You know…Anyway, this person, You know, in the aftermath of his death, I sat there and I looked for My acceptance. How can I accept this? What do I do about this, like  how can I find the perfection of this? And you know, Acceptance is hard. Seeing a situation or a person exactly as it is  and not wishing it were different. Not thinking: I have a better idea! You know? Imagining how things should have been In my view, is an argument with God. And when I argue with God, I lose every time. Every time. So can I accept the pain in my life? Can I accept that the person who might have used me to make himself feel better,  some stranger in a supermarket, This other self, This other spark of a creator,  can I accept that this person used my friend  as the butt of a public joke? Can I accept that that person Is a beautiful, perfect child of God? Can I see the opportunity for my own healing when I’m hurt Instead of focusing on how I was wronged? Instead of focusing on how unfair things feel? Can I see the opportunity  for my own healing? Can I see my opportunity for the healing of the person  who hurt me? Not just me, not just my feeling. Can I see how the person who hurt me now has a beautiful opportunity  for healing too? Can I see the impact on the people who witnessed? Can I see the impact on the people  in that supermarket Who heard this person yell out a joke  at the expense of a stranger and might have expected my friend to rage Or to cause chaos? And yet saw him peacefully walk away. Can I see the impact on that  and the value, the opportunity for healing that posed  not just for my friend, not just for the other guy,  but also for everyone who was watching? Were they moved to then be kinder to other people having seen what happened? Were they inspired by my friend’s willingness to seek his worth from inside rather than from the view of a stranger And to go further? If I put myself in my friend’s shoes, can I find a time when I too made a public joke at the expense of another person  and got away with it? Oh, you better believe it. There are so many times where I used other people as punch line. That’s my experience. So if I put myself in my friend’s shoes. Walking through the door and having someone call out some comment about my appearance  as a joke, some stranger. Can I check my self-righteousness  for a moment? And say, yeah, I did that too. And I got away with it, too, and I,I hurt those people when I did that. The way he hurt me. Can I see the grace that I was afforded when I hurt those people  and got away with it? Can I see the grace I got? Right? Because justice means  I would have been put in my place. But I was treated with grace. And now I have an opportunity to treat someone with grace. Can I see? That despite The confused, hurtful behavior, there’s an opportunity  to lovingly and intentionally pay that grace forward. And can I see how justice has now been served? If I hurt someone publicly, Now, I have been hurt publicly. And now I understand what I did. I understand that what I considered no big deal in the moment was painful For the target of my joke. Can I see the service that this guy, this gentleman  who made this joke at my friend-Can I see the service  that this person has done? This person has opened up a doorway to healing for him, For the people who watched, For me. And now for the listeners of this podcast, what a wonderful teacher. What a glorious benefactor this person has been In his confusion. To me, to my growth, to my healing. Can I see how things are restored to balance? Can I see how it all makes sense on God’s scale? We are balanced. My perspective is enhanced. And I can move on in peace with grace and forgiveness for him and for the past version of myself, who was also callous and careless with the feelings of others. Wow. I want to let this sit for a second. Can I see how it’s balanced and how it all makes sense on God’s scale? Yes. That is our superpower. That’s what I’m telling you about. That’s what I’m talking about here to be put in a position where things hurt and to decide to do no harm. The cycle of pain and hurt stops here. It stops with me. I see things from a higher perspective. It stops right here that is healing, that is healing,  that is service to the world, that is healing for you,  that is healing for the world. That is acceptance. That is love. That is everything that is not weakness, that is not laying down  and being a doormat that is power. That is your superpower. That is our superpower. And so thank you, thank you to so many  who have hurt me in my life. Thank you. And I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry For all the times I hurt other people When I was confused. When I was scared. Thank you for the grace Those victims of my ego showed me. Thank you for the grace My creator Poured on me. And thank you to my friend who shared this story  with me having no clue  how deeply it would stir me. And thank you, sir, to that stranger in a supermarket somewhere who created such a rich, beautiful, perfect, powerful scenario for learning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And, of course, to all of you, thank you For listening. Remember  that you are a spark of the creator. You are made from the same stuff as the stars. So aim your light. Take care.   

Learn more about Josephine’s journey and how she helps people on their own spiritual journeys by visiting her page: JosephineHardman.com. She hosts a thoughtfully crafted spirituality podcast called Inner Work: a Spiritual Growth Podcast, which you can find by clicking here. She is also available on Instagram at @Healer.Josephine.

Learn more about host Johnny Guidry and his work to help others step into their authentic power, finding a career that fits, relationships that fit, and a relationship to the self that feels just right. Visit his page at RefractiveCoaching.com. Find similarly themed content in these episodes: Find Your Genius with Mahima; When Purpose Gets in the Way with Daniel Mangena; Learning to Use Intuition; The Courage to Change Careers with Dr. Karen Barnard.

Episode transcript:

Hello Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refracted Podcast. I’m Johnny G. Today, I am delighted to introduce you to my guest, Josephine Hardman. She’s an intuitive healer, and she started by spending ten years in academia before she realized that there was something in her pushing her towards a shift. She eventually transitioned into full time spiritual work, and today she helps clients primarily in accessing the Akashic Records and working through that. She likes to say that she helps clients find the healer within through the spiritual work that she does. So that sounds just like the sweet spot for this podcast. So I know that it’s going to be it’s going to be an amazing episode. She has her own podcast that I invite you to check out. It’s called Inner Work, a spiritual growth podcast. You can find it on all of the platforms and on Instagram you can reach her @Healer.Josephine – Welcome Josephine, it’s so nice to have you with us. Oh, thank you so much for the invitation and for that lovely introduction. Absolutely. So I, you know, listeners of Refractive will know that I went through a similar experience to you.

While I don’t necessarily work with intuitive gifts directly with with clients. I left my career, which was rather traditional and mainstream, to pursue a path that was heavily influenced by my spiritual experiences. And it is a super exciting but a super uncomfortable process to go through because so many people in our lives can’t relate to what’s happening.

And at best, they can just smile and wish us well. And, you know, so it’s uncomfortable to go through. And part of the reason that I started this podcast is that I believe that there are a lot of people who feel these nudges inside – that it’s time to put aside the life that doesn’t fit, the life that

fit ten years ago, but that today doesn’t quite fit. And to step towards the guidance of your highest inner wisdom and love towards a life that feels just right. That’s what this is all about. And so the fact that this is an area that you’d like to discuss feels so natural and healthy and perfect.

So, you know, would you be willing to kind of walk us through what it was like back then, what happened and how it brought you to where you are today? Yeah, I would love to talk about that. And

first of all, I think it’s so important that you just said that we have to follow that core deep inner guidance. Yeah, which I think comes from the heart and also from, you know, the divine source, our guides, whoever else is working with us and our own intuition.

Because if I go way back the way I think about this now and the realizations I’ve had along the way is that there was a time when I learned this pattern of retreating up into my head. That’s how I learned that I could be safe in the world because it wasn’t comfortable to be

in the body. Also, I identify as a highly sensitive person, as an empath, so just feeling things so deeply all the time. Which is how I grew up and how I was as a teenager and then into early adulthood.

So I learned, OK, I’m just going to try to live from the neck up. This was not a conscious thing. I didn’t actually say it, it just gradually happened because it felt safer up in my head. And also because I realized through intellectual pursuits, academic endeavors, I can really succeed here.

I get rewarded, I get approval, I get love, quote unquote. So that felt really good and safe and rewarding. Yes, it’s kind of like in a laboratory, like the animals that push a button and get the fruit, right?

It’s like, OK, yeah, I can just push this button all day long and I get everything I need, right? Everything I think is best. Yeah, exactly. So it really feels like it’s working while we’re in it, right?

At least in the beginning. So eventually I learned that pattern so well that I went to college, really excelled there, graduated with a 4.0.. Like all the stuff, I was always an A student and a people pleaser and all that stuff.

And then I went straight into grad school, I didn’t take a break, which probably, looking back, you know, I didn’t feel like I needed a break, but probably if I had taken a break, maybe there would have been more reflection.

But it just felt like the momentum was there. So I just kept going. So I went into grad school, I got my masters, I got my Ph.D. in English literature, and the plan for a very long time was, OK, I’m going to be a tenured professor and that’s what I’m working towards, that I’m jumping

through all the hoops and I’m making everything happen as expected. And as I was doing that, still, I was getting a lot of approval, rewards, scholarships, funding like even material benefits, which is difficult, that’s difficult stuff to walk away from.

But anyway, I started feeling like there’s something missing here. First of all, the environment of academia itself, which I started feeling like this is too competitive for me. I don’t want to live a life where I have to be constantly jumping through hoops based on other people’s expectations.

Yes, of what I have to be accomplishing next because it’s all pretty clearly defined, predetermined- like these are the things you do to get to be a tenured professor. And if you don’t do them, you don’t get there.

So it’s not this unique path where you can be totally yourself, really. So that started feeling very constricting and I started to feel in my heart, there is something missing here. And probably also I started to feel in my body the repercussions of existing only from the neck.

up, because my body started saying, Hey, this is not working in a lot of different ways. What would that be like? If I could jump in. Like, let’s say, you know, and certainly there may be some sensitive areas that you might not want to go into, but for a listener who may

not realize that their body is shouting, like, Hey, this isn’t working because you’re not following your authentic path. Like, what does it look like? So for me, and of course, it’s going to be individual to each person, but for me, I can identify probably two different things that really stand out.

One is that I started feeling as I was completing my Ph.D. coursework and attending my graduate seminars. first of all, I didn’t want to go any more. So it was like dreading having to go into the two and a half hour seminars.

Where we were talking about 17th century English literature, which is what I wrote my dissertation on and, you know, I loved it at the time. I mean, I still love literature, but I felt like some of the things we were talking about had nothing to do with the real world.

Yeah. So I started kind of like escaping from my body or like there was a part of me that was hovering above me looking down and saying to me, Well, what does this mean? Is this meaningful enough? What are you doing here?

Maybe there’s another place where you are needed more than in this classroom, like talking about this stuff? Yeah. So I started to feel almost like that dissociation or that my higher self was hovering above. And so some questioning started to happen, which I just try to suppress that by eating sugar and bingeing on Netflix.

Don’t think about it. Because it was really like, Oh, if I if I really ask these questions, maybe the answers are going to lead me to a totally different place. And what the hell do I do with that?

What does it mean? Yeah, I’ve I’ve already done all this work. I can’t just, I can’t just like turn left right now. But when you said that this dissociation was that kind of in the form of almost like daydreaming?

Like what? How did it feel? Yeah. It felt like daydreaming. It felt like, I mean, again, I wasn’t fully in my body. And it was like I could see myself from outside of myself doing all the actions, taking all the steps to finish my Ph.D. do all these things, but it just started to feel kind of robotic-

like is this really where you want to be? So yeah, it just felt almost like there was a split, like an internal split or something, you know, with the part of me that already had built this identity and was thinking, Well, we better keep going because I want the benefits, I want the salary, I want the prestige.

I want the recognition. I don’t want to upset or disappoint anyone. All the narratives that come with that and the attachments. And then the other part of me, my heart, my higher self, that was saying, wait, maybe you’re supposed to be somewhere else.

So that was one thing. But then also my body started speaking to me physically. So I had a number of different, I mean, accidents. They’re not really accidents, but I injured my knee while I was walking on campus.

And then I had knee pain for a long time after that, which now looking back, I know was just a way that my body was trying to communicate with me. And then I started getting sick a lot. So I had laryngitis recurrently.

I had strep throat. I couldn’t speak. It was like I was losing my voice. Yeah, which again, is really symbolic. So yeah, there was just a lot happening as the truthfulness of what I really wanted to be or needed to be, that was coming to the surface.

So there was a lot. And so for listeners who may not resonate with the idea that your body is tripping itself or whatever, you know as a way to warn you about a spiritual or a life path, I think there’s another way to look at it right there.

There’s there’s the idea that because you’re not doing what feels refreshing and energizing. It takes more energy. Right? And so because it takes more energy, it drains you. And over time, as you are drained, your immune system becomes weaker.

Your awareness becomes diminished. Right. And so you know, we can look at it in the way that I do, and that you seem to, where this is really my physical body communicating with my emotional body, communicating with my spiritual body.

But if you want to look at it from a physical level as well, it also really makes sense. Yeah, yeah. The body will break down because you can’t sustain that level of- I mean, you’re exerting so much energy doing something that’s not aligned, right?

And exactly as you’re saying, it’s almost like your life force itself gets drained and then, yeah, you are going to have more accidents. You’re going to trip, you’re going to get sick if there’s a flu going around. Yeah.

So yeah, it’s many different levels that go into that. Yeah. Thank you for letting me kind of detour into that. So OK. So this is how it felt in your body when when these kind of red flags are going up- wait, I’m not exactly on the right path.

So what was next? Yeah. Well, and I also should backtrack a little bit and say, because my whole life, I really, first of all, I grew up in a very spiritual home. My mom is a psychotherapist, also a healer.

My dad was a high school teacher. Now he’s a professor, but also a very spiritual person. So growing up, I was exposed to yoga and meditation, mindfulness, the Akashic Records, the tarot, all of these things, and it was just really open.

It was like a natural part of the household. And so I always had this active spiritual life that was running in parallel to my academic, very heady intellectual experiences. And my spiritual life was always a great place of solace and comfort for me.

So I would turn to that when I felt like, Oh, the questioning is coming up or I don’t know what the next step is, and I would just use that, and I use that in a lot of ways to heal myself, really.

And then I started getting trained in healing modalities for myself first at the time, not knowing, Oh, maybe I’m going to use this in the future to be of service to others. But so I learned about Reiki, I learned about cycle synthesis, which is coaching modality.

Then I became certified in the Akashic records for myself. So all of that was still going on in parallel. And then I started feeling more and more of a pull towards that side of things. And then I started thinking, Well, what if

this could actually be, instead of like a little side hobby or something that I do on the side, what if that’s really what I’m being called to do, right? To me, the bigger part of my life, right? And to be of service for other people.

So I already had a lot of those tools. And then that’s when I started realizing in a very organic, gradual way. Oh, right. Yeah, I’m supposed to hold space for others, as we say. And just be of service in this deeper, spiritual, really profound way.

So because I already had a lot of the certifications, at one point I just decided, OK, I’m going to finish my Ph.D. because I’ve done so much work. I’m so close. It’s just to give that closure. So follow through, which is really important to me.

So I did finish and then I took the summer off and then I started my spiritual business, so I started building it from the ground up like the same year that I finished my PhD.

So in this journey, you were pursuing this path to a tenured professor and part of that was earning your PhD. And it’s like as soon as you get this Ph.D. that kind of opens the door to the path that you had been pushing towards.

You’re like, You know what? We don’t need that anymore. And I thought about, you know, I thought, OK, do I go on the job market, right? So as you’re finishing your last few semesters, you start to get all your materials together to go on the academic job market, which is a nightmare, by the way.

And yeah, I mean, there’s a lot I could say about that, but I won’t. But it’s like a really draining anxiety producing stressful experience for people, and most people do not get the job that they want. Yeah, and then they have to be an adjunct, which is a whole other problem.

But anyway, so I thought, OK, do I go on the job market anyway and see what happens? And then I just realized there’s really no point in that, like, I’m just not going to. That’s not where I want to be.

So instead, I just celebrated myself for completing a PhD and then just rested the whole summer and then started my business. Some people were like, what? But that’s just what I had to do. A really wise friend of mine said in reference to another person that we both knew who felt guided to make a major life

change. I’ll just want to keep it simple. I’ll say this- this wise person said, when you step in to follow your highest path, the universe, kind of supports it. Yeah. And, you know, this is referenced by a quote from The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, which is, when you pursue your personal legend, the universe conspires in

your favor, you know? However, he said. Once you kind of lay these first few bricks, then comes the loving attempts by the universe to make sure what you’re doing is what you really want. Yeah, and and like they’re going to make, the universe is going to make you work for it.

It’s not just this ordained slide down a slide. No. You know, it’s easy to get up to the slide and it’s easy to get to the edge of the slide. But it’s not going. It’s not effortless just because it’s been ordained by the universe.

So tell me about those bumps that you found where the universe really made you prove that you wanted it. Yeah, that’s so good. Um yeah, it’s now I can have a retrospective understanding. Or, you know, looking back at the years I’ve been doing my spiritual business versus all of the years I was in grad school and teaching

college, and now I can see how that was a lot easier because everything was predetermined and I knew what was expected of me and I knew what the criteria was for success, so I could be my full perfectionist self.

And that really served me well there. But building a business from the ground up. It’s not like that at all, at least my experience of it. There is no roadmap. You can’t, I mean, if you’re trying to imitate or copy what someone else has done, it’s just not going to work.

So for me, now I realize how making that shift and starting my own business was really almost like jumping into this accelerated healing incubator where all of my stuff just comes up to the surface all of the time or a lot of the time, because I’ve hit up against my perfectionism, for example.

Which is so counter to being a successful entrepreneur where you have to be experimental and you have to be curious and you have to make mistakes, you have to allow yourself to make mistakes, and you have to redefine what it means to be successful or what failure means because there really is no failure.

You just try things and then gather the data and then see how you proceed from there. So having to adopt that more experimental mindset and that mindset of, OK, sometimes I’m going to try something and it’s going to feel like I’m falling flat on my face and I’m failing and nobody cares about what I’m doing and

they’re not interested and I feel like an idiot. And yet, the next day, I’m going to get up and try something else or do it again, because now you just have to keep showing up over and over and over again.

So I think that’s that has been the biggest thing or this it’s almost like a divine requirement of showing up over and over and over again consistently. No matter what has happened the day before and not having that attachment to having to get everything perfect, yeah.

Which for me has been huge. And also, of course, you know, so there’s been bumps just more logistically in terms of, oh, I try to launch this course or offer the service and then, oh, OK, that’s not actually what people need or want so I have to retool and redesign it and check back in with my guidance and see what

actually comes through. So that’s just a continual learning and growth process. Yeah. You know, yeah, of course. And you know, when we started talking, this thought that arose, What a dramatic shift to go from academia, where every we only deal in what is known-

Yeah- to a spiritual path where we only deal in what is believed. We know and believe through feelings, believe through experience, believe through intuition, whatever the case. And it’s like, on one hand, they seem so polar yet

I see a really beautiful correlation in what you’re just describing with the scientific method. Right? Because if you’re in a laboratory, there’s no such thing as failure. If you don’t get the result you expected from the experiment, that is as valuable and as successful as if you got the the result you wanted.

And it might even be more valuable, you know, whereas we, the sensitive, fragile, emotionally needy, beautifully perfect beings that we are, you know, we have to show up. We have to try. And then sometimes we get the result we expected.

Sometimes we get the result we didn’t. Yet, unlike the scientist who has an upper hand in this viewpoint, we are like, It’s over, it’s over. It’s over. It’s time for a new incarnation. Just take me. It’s over, it’s over.

You know, and so it’s so fascinating to see how, you know, we can often look at science and say, Yes, science, that’s cute. We’re dealing in something bigger. We’re dealing in, you know, in all. And yet, you know what?

There are some things to learn on both sides. Yeah, that’s such a great point, because it is like that scientific method. And there’s so much we learn when we try something and then we don’t get the expected result.

Yeah. And something different happens. But sometimes that’s where the magic happens. Sometimes that’s where a doorway opens. So we have to follow those threads. That’s so important. But then another thing I’m thinking of now, which we were briefly chatting about earlier, which is, you know, you get on your spiritual path or your path of just being true

to yourself. That’s right. We have to be spiritual, necessarily. And sometimes it feels in the beginning like, well, first of all, there is a kind of euphoria, right, when you first set out on that path. And the sense of, Oh, now there are expanded possibilities.

Now I am free now I’m going to do exactly what is authentic to me. And that’s all wonderful and great, although sometimes it can also be destabilizing because we’re like, what? Who am I now? What am I? Where my living?

What am I going to do? But then a lot, then we have to stay on the path. And as the path unfolds, it’s not always. There’s not always a high. We’re not always at a peak having a peak experience.

Sometimes we’re just in that neutral space, as you were saying before. And I think for so many of us, we also have to learn that there are a lot of moments in life that are most moments in life are neutral or just that there’s quiet and not a lot is happening. I think, because of our culture and

society and the fast pace, speed and just everything happening, always faster and faster, and we’re trying to accumulate more and more and technology keeps developing, and it’s almost like the sense that we’ve lost. The connection to her inner rhythms and to the rhythms of nature and to that rhythm, which

does have some peaks, but then there’s valleys and then there’s just those flat places. And I think it’s so important. That we learn how not to try to escape from those moments or to use substances, experiences, other people, chaos or drama, whatever, just to have more of the fireworks and to just embrace those moments of stillness.

We’re not alone. It’s happening as well, because sometimes those are the moments where we receive the clearest guidance about what the next step might be. So it’s just so important not to fill them up with stuff. Yeah, that makes sense.

I think that’s really valuable. You know, last night I was talking with a close friend of mine and I was saying, how I left my career, I have not had an address in almost a year now. Wow, right?

I own about ten boxes of things, that’s all. I don’t have anything left, right? You know, and it’s like, there’s this part of me that says, look, God, source, universe, whatever, like I’ve done my part.

Like I did the crazy that you asked me to do, you know? And I started this podcast, I started coaching. I did all of this and I had great momentum at the beginning. My numbers were growing at the beginning and all of this.

And that like, you know, I, I put my skin in the game, right? I put my butt on the line and I took these leaps with nothing behind my back, but some internal nudging, and it’s like, I want some prizes, right?

I want the prizes, I want podcast growth. I want my business to take off. I want —more important than those things, all of those things really matter to me, too, but more important than hose things, I want to wake up in the morning like Snow White with the birds helping me get dressed.

Yes, I want the world to visibly and noticeably gather its forces and around me and like, hug me all the time and say, Good good boy, good boy, you are doing it, you’re doing it, you’re doing it.

It’s so good. And I got to tell you, Josephine, like, that doesn’t happen. Yeah, almost all the time. The best I get is neutrality. Like you just mentioned, yeah. And in our society, neutrality feels like a loss. Yeah.

Oh, it feels like emptiness. Yes. It feels empty, and I don’t want to feel empty— my ego, I want to feel energized and refreshed all the time because I had the courage to follow my faith or the insanity to follow my faith.

You want to look at it, you know, and I don’t have that, and it sounds like you have had moments of this too. And like, what can we even say about this? Yeah, well, I think

the first thing that comes to mind for me is the importance of asking what part of you is the part that is longing for that, whatever it is, the approval, the recognition, the metrics right to grow? Well, damn, Josephine, warn me before you stab me!

I’m sorry, I just did that. But yeah, I’m saying like, that’s something that I’ve learned. That’s very important to me and how I run my business. Before taking an action, or if I feel I’m having a triggering, a triggered response to something is to sit and center myself and observe,

OK, from what part of me am I operating right now, because I have moments where I operate my business from my eight year old little girl self who wants to send out an email campaign as though it’s an invitation to my birthday party and I want everyone to come because if people don’t come, then I’m an idiot and I’m

not loved and am going to feel like a failure, and I’m going to feel rejected, right? So the fear of rejection is in there, too. And then that will paralyze me. Yeah, right. So I have to ask, OK, from what part of myself do I actually want to run my business in this moment?

Or what’s the part that has the attachment to everyone coming to the party? What does that actually mean? And is it okay to take the risk of sending out the email campaign anyway and seeing what happens? Right? And then, of course, I think we can have bigger attachments, right?

So to the approval or to be loved or getting the respect or the recognition. But like you said, that’s the ego getting in the way. Somewhere in there or a part that fell unloved growing up, or a part that wants the constant excitement and feels really scared to face that void of the emptiness that feels

like death almost sometimes. Yeah. So really about working with those different parts, I think it can be super helpful and important just to be more mindful of that. I agree. I think, you know, understanding your motivations is so key, and this is why so many coaches do values work with people, right?

Like, what are your values? What are your drivers? And let’s embrace the nastiness of it and let’s embrace, you know, if achievement or if competition is a value, let’s just roll in it like, like a pig.

You know, let’s leave the story that we’re being greedy because we’re naturally competitive, like, let’s like, roll around in it and see what’s what, where the love is in that too, you know?

Yeah. Wait, can I say something? Yeah. That’s also so important. And I think specifically on the spiritual path, sometimes people can have this misconception, this idea of like I have to release all the attachments, all the desires, I have to be able to just sit here quietly with myself and just be at peace at all times,

which maybe is like asking a lot of ourselves and kind of unrealistic because we still have human bodies and we’re having a human experience. And I think that having desires, wanting more for ourselves, being ambitious, like all of that can be part of the human experience.

It’s not wrong or bad or on spiritual or greedy to want more. And sometimes I think there are some people, probably, it sounds like you are one of them, I’m one of them, that we just want bigger things for ourselves all of the time.

And I don’t know if it is we’re Type-A or ambitious or whatever it is or if we just have big desires. That divine source is calling us for us to fulfill those desires. And so sometimes I think that’s why the moments of stillness can feel uncomfortable because we want more and we want bigger.

But again, I don’t think that that means that we’re being greedy or wrong or selfish for wanting that so we can embrace that and then work towards it. Yeah, I think that’s totally fine.

This is such a liberating concept that because I have come to believe that for all of my qualities, for each quality that I have, the quality lies on a continuum and on one side of the continuum is the self-serving side of the quality

and on the other side of the continuum is the others-serving side of the quality. Now, I believe that all is one, right? I believe that all is one. So therefore, is there really a difference between serving the self and serving others?

That’s a philosophical conversation we don’t have time for today. You know the point of, the point of me bringing that up is that in order for me to serve the world in the way that I feel guided to,

I need to want to have a successful podcast, right? Do you know what I mean? So the way I look at it, I could look at it as being selfish and say, Oh yeah, well, like, I want my ego validated by having this big podcast.

But the fact is, the fact that I naturally strive towards this is a gift from the universe. Because imagine if I was called to do this and I hated it. If I was called to do this and I was painfully shy to talk to strangers.

Like, How difficult would that be? You know? So there’s a way to look at this as the universe is using my characteristics, which is that I like being in the spotlight. I like having a lot of attention, and it’s using that to say, all right, let’s funnel this into this way.

And yeah, sometimes you know, we still need to look for the middle path of that, of that characteristic. But it’s incomplete, in my opinion, to see my desire for validation or my desire for achievement or my desire for financial comfort as a negative because it is a tool that the universe leverages to help me accomplish

service in in an important way. Yes, that’s such a good point. I think you’re also talking about, because I think if you have a what I call a clean motivation or something, so a clean motivation for your podcast to grow.

And I have the same issue because I have a podcast too. And of course, again, we are spiritual, but also human beings. So we’re going to have the higher spiritual goal. I want to be of service. I want to reach as many people as possible to help them free themselves from suffering, to be authentic.

So they feel heard and seen and understood all of the stuff. And as a human, I also want to have nice things and a nice house, and I want people to like me. Like, there’s just no getting around that because if we try to suppress it, I think it just gets stronger or it can be,

It can almost like change the motivation or corrupt it. So just being aware of all of those things that are floating around in there, of why we want something. Yeah, but that there always can be a higher purpose to it.

And if we align with that higher purpose, then we’re going to be that much more successful in getting there. Right? That’s right. Yeah. 

So shifting a little bit, Josephine, why don’t you tell us a little bit about

how you help people find their inner healer and activate their inner healer. You know, there may be I talked on earlier episodes about the Akashic Records, but never in depth. So I wonder if you could give us like a gentle overview of, you know, how you help people heal and what are some of those tools and modalities

you use? Because I think I think it might be valuable and it could give listeners inspiration to go do some research on this. Oh, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So first. Well, I should start by saying, typically the clients, the people that are drawn to me are people that have been on the spiritual path for a while and

who, maybe at some point, you know, they feel like they’ve had an awakening, whether it’s been gradual or through a sudden catalyst or something happening. And so they have some experience with doing inner work or they’ve already explored some modalities.

But really, I think the key thread for all of them at the end of the day is that they— they’ve been on the path for a while, but they’re hitting up against something bigger that’s emerging to be healed or they’re discovering I’m hitting up against this recurrent pattern over and over again, and I don’t know how

to shift it or I’m so sick and tired of being in this place. And also, I think they’re discovering that there’s no one outside of themselves that’s going to, say, rescue or fix them or heal them. And so they’re kind of like in the midst of taking the power back from wherever they’re giving it away to-

to other people, to patterns, to even substances or compulsive behaviors, wherever, or even to other spiritual teachers, because sometimes we give our power away there, too. So that’s typically where they are. And then the Akashic Records are so appropriate and helpful modality for people when they are in that place because the well, first of all, I should say

that the Akashic records are a vast archive of information that includes information about every single time that a person has incarnated into a physical body. So it’s almost like when your soul is first sparked into existence, that’s when your record is first created, so people have individual records inside of their records.

And so there is information there about past life experiences, unresolved past life trauma. Also, if we’ve made past life contracts or vows like, for example, a contract of I’m never going to use my intuition again, because in the past that has made me suffer or I was killed, rejected, banished for using my gifts, whatever the story might

be. And then the records are also really, really good for exploring questions about purpose in the current lifetime. So what am I here to do? How am I here to serve and how can I embody my sole purpose at its highest level?

How can I take my power back? All those kinds of questions so we can go into the records to explore all of that and then to remove the past life contracts and battles that are not helpful anymore, and also to explore if we have unconscious agreements with people in this lifetime or family members.

Because sometimes we have agreements on an unconscious level, for example, of I will never make more money than my father. For whatever reason, or I will never outshine my sister or my mother, because that’s how I stay safe when I need to be behind the scenes, I need to be in the background.

So I work through a lot of things like that and also just shifting patterns that are really strong or recurrent or dysfunctional and helping people. Well, a lot of what we’ve been talking about today about the different parts that we have within ourselves.

So for that, I use more psychosynthesis, which is a modality about bringing integration to all those parts and really just harmony so they can work together instead of always having this inner conflict that’s happening where one part one’s the material success and the other part is like, no, that’s not spiritual.

So there’s like self-sabotage that is created. So really, in working to harmonize those parts so that then the person at their highest level can take steps forward to create the life that they want to create? OK. All right.

Yeah. And so from this human perspective, we look at the concept of healing, and it’s almost like when we we want to start a healing process and then get a certificate at the end and say, OK, you’re healed.

And so what does healing really look like? I mean, if if someone, let’s say, if someone has, you know, crippling self-worth challenges and they come to you for healing on that, like what does the healing manifest as how does it take form?

What’s the proof that there is healing in their life? Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think that’s another of the sometimes that we have expectations about that that we can really get in the way of the healing or just get in trouble with that.

We call it well, the way I see it healing is not linear- it is on a spiral. And there are deeper layers of healing that can come up even as we think, Oh, I’ve already done this thing, I’ve already healed this thing, I’m never going to deal with it again.

And it resurfaces and there can be anger. There can be disappointment. There can be, Oh, I didn’t do it right. There can be shame. And there’s a lot, a lot of mixed emotions that can come up when that happens.

So just really remembering that it’s on a spiral. And if it’s coming up again, then it’s coming up in a different way because you’re still moving forward. So it’s coming up in a different or a deeper way to be looked at again.

So for self-worth specifically? Well, there’s a lot of different ways I could look at that based on the person’s individual story. But for example, we might go into the records to ask something like first I would start with.

Are the self-worth issues something that are limited to this one lifetime, or is this bigger than this lifetime? Because if the person is carrying those patterns or those wounds from prior lifetimes, then we might want to go into what were those past life experiences where the issue originates.

That can be a really important thing to look at in the records. And what is the trauma associated with that? And then what are the unconscious contracts that maybe this person made as a result of the trauma to keep themselves safe now?

And so often with self-worth issues, ultimately, when it comes down to it, what we discover is that at some point on some level, it’s almost like the person made a contract or an unconscious agreement of convincing themselves of the story that they’re not worthy.

Yeah. For whatever reason, like, however, that played out in their upbringing or a past life, and now they’re just continually convincing themselves of the same story. So at that point, it really becomes about looking at the story and then seeing how we can release it- shift it.

What’s a more empowering story that they can tell? And I think it’s also important because sometimes we’re working in the records and it’s really abstract or really high spiritual realms, but also bringing it down to the body. So like making it safe even at a nervous system level, like what does it feel to be worthy or to

feel worthy? Does it feel safe to feel worthy and to be worthy in the world and to carry yourself in that way? Or does it not? Does it feel like you’re going to die if you do that or other people are going to be mad, disappointed, whatever.

So even bringing in the body level or somatic level of making it really safe and OK to believe that we are worthy? Does that make sense? Yeah, that’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. So I imagine some people have a more dramatic leap in their healing, right?

They’re able to see that they don’t need to keep carrying a particular part of the story forward. And then there’s like, there’s there’s there’s a quantum jump there. And then for others, it might be more like a sunrise where like the sun keeps rising, but you can’t really see it move,

but if you come back five minutes later, you can see there has been progress over time. Yeah, that’s exactly right. And again, we can never tell in advance or say in advance how that’s going to happen for people, so I think letting go of rigid expectations is really important and seeing the healing

as a spiral and also having the awareness that sometimes there are parts of us that don’t want to heal or that want to hold on to the old story because it’s become some kind of safety blanket. And maybe that’s just how we learned – this is how I’m going to be safe in the world and OK in the

world. And if I let go of this identity, then what? Like, sometimes the unknown can be a lot scarier than staying in discomfort, the present discomfort, which is already known. So I also work on that a lot too, kind of figuring out what is the secondary gain of the self-limiting story.

Because if there wasn’t a secondary gain or some benefit that we’re deriving from it, we just wouldn’t have it in the first place. So really working with that too, to avoid sabotage in the healing process down the line.

Oh, thank you for your service. It’s really it’s beautiful to just be able to observe people, you know, using their gifts to help others. It’s inspiring. Oh, it’s my honor. I mean, I’m so blessed every day that I get to do this even in the moments where I’m like, the podcast is not

big enough. Yeah, that’s right. So if people want to learn more about you, what you do, how to get in touch with you, or to examine some of your services, how can they do that? Yes, so they can go on the website, which is really simple.

JosephineHardman.com. And if they want, I would invite them to sign up for my newsletter. They will get my spiritual hygiene routine. So it’s for different spiritual practices really to ground our souls throughout the day, but to stay connected also to the divine to create more stillness, all those kinds of things.

And I’m also on Instagram, as you mentioned where I do every month, I do free tarot challenges. Yeah, the people who want to explore the tarot or connect more to their cards or learn how to read. Intuitively, I do that every single month.

So there’s a great community on there. And then, of course, the podcast, which is “Inner Work- a Spiritual Growth Podcast” on all the platforms. And what’s your Instagram handle one more time? Oh yeah, that’s @Heeler.Josephine. OK, very good.

And then for those who are not on YouTube, but who are listening on a podcast on an audio platform, Josephine is with the PH and Hardman is H-A-R-D-M-A-N. Yeah, that’s important.

Josephine, thank you so much for joining us today. It was really a lovely, uplifting, delightful conversation and I really appreciate it. Yeah, that was so great. I love everything that we talked about, so thank you so much and I hope this is helpful to someone.

Absolutely. Everyone, thank you for listening to refractive. And as you go out and meet people in the world, realize that everybody’s just doing the best they can. No one would ever hurt another person if they weren’t confused. So don’t forget to aim your light.

Take care.

For other Refractive Podcast guided meditations, try What’s My Purpose, Ocean Stillness, or Receiving Love.

For more information on Refractive or host Johnny Guidry, visit www. refractivepodcast.com or www.refractivecoaching.com.

For similarly themed content, try Making Peace with Our Dark Side, Free Yourself from Limiting Beliefs, and The Ancient Truths of Acceptance and PLINKO.

To learn more about host Johnny Guidry, visit www.refractivecoacing.com or www.refractivepodcast.com.

Find all sorts of soul goodness at JeanAtman.com

Contact host Johnny G at jo****@***************st.com, or visit www.refractivecoaching.com for more information.

For similarly-themed episodes, try Making Peace with Your Dark Side, How the 12 Steps Can Help Anyone Heal, or From Addiction to Self-Acceptance.

Find an episode transcript below:

Hello. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Refractive. I’m Johnny G. I was talking with a friend a few weeks ago about the space race we have today between billionaires, how Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk went into this competition to see who can conquer space and how crazy it seemed that only a few decades ago, it was the world’s superpowers that were behind a space race and that today it feels like individual wealthy people can now accomplish the same things that it took countries to accomplish before. And you know, it’s easy for me to be upset about that.

In fact, I was pretty disturbed by the thought of so much wealth being concentrated in the hands of a person when there are so many people who struggle. Now, as I thought, this thought and as I’m talking with my friend and complaining about these other people, you know, I realize that when I consider my spiritual values and the path that I’m on, these feelings of alarm and frustration and resentment towards these men. This doesn’t really jive with my spiritual state right now. I don’t agree with being upset about that kind of thing. It no longer serves me to wind up my anger over the behaviors of another person.

Yet here I am, falling into that behavioral pattern. And as I was having this conversation, I decided to take a look within, you know, what’s really going on here? Why am I really upset about this?

What is being triggered inside of me? What’s causing me to point the finger out at someone else? And, you know, in the moment of the conversation, I couldn’t come up with exactly what it might be, but I spent some time thinking about it after the fact, and I realized that there are a couple of characteristics in myself that rise to the surface when I think of this situation. There’s the idea that I have worked very hard and have wanted to be rewarded financially, and I have not achieved the wealth in my life that I one time had wanted.

“And there is a disappointment around there that I worked, worked, worked and I still didn’t quite make it financially. And then there’s another part of me that wants to point my finger at these guys and say, “What are you doing to solve these issues in the world?”” When in reality, I know that I’m not doing a whole lot to resolve these issues in the world. So if I want them to do their part, what is my part and what am I doing to work towards income equality and accessibility of opportunities in all of this type of stuff that I am claiming that they contribute to as well?

So there are quite a few areas of my own behavior that need some healing and need some attention. And it, in my opinion, is the universe/ God/ Source. It is this opportunity to allow the anger, the resentment to rise up in me as a signpost, saying there’s healing to do inside of you.

There are some things that need attention and that’s where I find the love and the value in the moment of getting upset about what other people are doing. Now, if you’ve listened to Refractive, you know that I am a member of some recovery communities and in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, there is a quote and I want to share that quote with you right now. It says: “It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also.”

Now, this is something that is really central to the inner work that people do if they enter the world of twelve step recovery, it’s an important part of coming to terms with our relationship with the world. And I find that this really, truly fits the definition of an axiom.

When you think of the word axiom, it’s a statement that is always true. And so I look at the spiritual axiom of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I’m just fascinated by how powerful, how simple, how accurate, how universal it is. And in that one quote, there is so much potential to unlock a world of pain and shame and and resentment and anger and awkwardness and fear inside of each of us – inside of me. I don’t even need to speak for you.

I can only speak for me and tell you that when it comes to myself, that spiritual axiom, when I am upset by what someone else has done, there is something at fault in me also.

I am at fault also. And so, you know, I wanted to share this on an episode of Refractive because I do think that a concept like this has the potential to really make a difference in the lives of a lot of people.

Now there’s a couple of, let’s say, sensitive points that I can imagine people having when they when they look at this reaction. You know, first of all, we say, well, wait a minute. Like what happens about atrocities and where I am truly a victim of another person’s bad behavior. What about when I am innocently attacked? I think it serves as well to look at the wording of the spiritual axiom and realize that it is not saying that when something bad happens to me, it’s my fault.

That is not what it says. What it says is that when someone hurts me and I’m upset, there is something inside of me that is at fault also. So let’s take a look at what this could mean.

When I think about that space race example. The fact that Richard Branson, Elon Musk and you know, these billionaires around the world are funneling money into go into space in this gentlemen’s competition against each other. That’s not my fault, right?

That’s not my fault. I did not cause that to happen. And really, there’s nothing wrong with these guys taking their money and spending it to go into space. There’s literally nothing wrong with that. It’s the implications of how they got to the position to be able to do it that is upsetting to me. It’s not that they are building rockets and flying into space. Now when I say, though, that it’s not my fault that this space race is not my doing. So what does it mean that I am at fault also?

Well, how about the fact that I am a loyal Amazon customer? So if I want to point the finger to Jeff Bezos and say shame on you for not doing something loftier with your money. Well, I continue to support Amazon, right?

I’m a Prime member. I probably buy something from Amazon at least once a month. So I have an Audible subscription and I download audiobooks all the time and I put my podcasts up on Amazon Music. So hold up before I want to say Jeff Bezos needs to do more.

Let’s scale that down to my personal impact and say, What am I doing? You know, maybe I can’t control the work lives and the career opportunities of thousands and thousands of Amazon employees. But there is a power that I have, and if I’m not taking responsibility for my place in the world and doing what is within my reach, then shame on me for holding another person to a standard that I’m not willing to observe myself. You know, I look at this and say, hold up.

This is the judgment game. The issue with this is that I don’t feel good about certain things in my life. I don’t feel good about certain decisions I’ve made. And if I can point the finger out at another person, then I can forget that deep down, I have some discomfort over my own path. I can feel superior, I can feel self-righteous. I can feel like a good person because the low level quiet guilt that I may have about my life gets drowned out by the outrage I feel towards another person.

And so again, this comes down to- not fault, per se- it doesn’t come down to blame. And this certainly has nothing to do with victim blaming. It has to do with: I have fallen short of the ideals that I am ready to hold other people accountable for.

And either I can raise myself up to that level of accountability, or I can lower my need for another to be accountable, to match the grace that I might be giving myself. That, to me, is the lesson for there.

So, you know, let’s look at another example of how the spiritual axiom. Can be put into use, let’s say that someone in a romantic relationship with me were to cheat on me. And I am hurt and upset about this.

Well, the spiritual axiom, let me read it again, word for word instead of paraphrasing. “It is a spiritual axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also.”

OK, so if someone cheats on me and I’m upset, does that mean that I’m a cheater? Does that mean that I have cheated on that other person? Because it says “every time,” it doesn’t say most of the time.

This axiom says every time and it says we are in the wrong ALSO. But what if I’ve never cheated on a partner? What if I’ve never done that? You know, I feel like. This connects back to some things that Jesus said on the sermon on the Mount.

He talks about the concept of sin is not just physical action. And if we say sin, right, if we’re talking about the religious concept of sin, which is not necessarily something that I adhere to myself in the traditional sense, but let’s just kind of use Jesus’ teaching, which is one of my favorite favorite religious writings ever.

The sermon on the Mount. When Jesus says that when you commit adultery in your mind, you are committing adultery. We’re talking about energy management. We’re talking about energy management, right? Because we live in a world of energy.

We are energy. Our body is just dense energy. And so when we take the energy of thoughts and we direct that energy into a fantasy of some sort, we are not managing our energy appropriately. When I revel in the potential pleasure of a fantasy that is harmful, that lowers my vibration, that has the potential to hurt another person, that does not grow my light, but rather dims my light. Then I am also cheating. I’m also cheating, and I’m not going to get into the whole concept of, well, where does guilt lie with imaginary cheating compared to in person cheating- That’s that’s a topic for another day. But what I’m saying is that I have cheated as well in my heart. There are times where I have looked at an individual and fantasized or objectified an individual when I was with another person.

And so before I can get angry at someone for disrespecting me, why don’t I look at what I’m doing. It doesn’t mean that there is no justice, and I want to talk about justice, I want to talk about fairness, and I’ll come back to that in a minute.

But when I say, let me look at what I’m doing as I’m angry at other people, it means: Have I deceived a partner? Maybe I didn’t necessarily have inappropriate physical relations with another person, but when have I deceived a partner?

Have I spoken untruly, have I hid my feelings about something? Have I used a particular approach to get what I want, which is a form of lying and manipulation? Right. So where have I been less than honest and truthful?

Where have I been disrespectful to my partner? With my behavior, with my thoughts. With my words. And so let me realize that I have healing to do inside of myself. I have an opportunity to apply love and attention to healing my own issues.

And that has nothing to do with the other person except realizing that their behavior was a catalyst for a beautiful, compassionate signpost from my God, from the universe, from source, gently pointing out an opportunity for me to heal something of myself.

So. Where does that leave us? What does that imply? What does that mean for our appropriate reaction? Let’s talk about justice. What is just in a situation where we are attacked or we are cheated on or we are disrespected?

You see? As I study the spiritual axiom, the spiritual axiom, “Every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are, so we are wrong also.” As I study the spiritual axiom, I say that justice for this other person’s behavior against me has zero to do with my own peace. Seeking justice for wrongs done to me has nothing to do with the healing that I need to do in myself. So I want to make sure that my message for this, for this episode is clearly clearly outlined that when I say when we are upset by something someone else did, we are in the wrong also. It does not mean that we don’t need to show ourselves the respect of drawing boundaries, protecting ourselves, ensuring our safety, ensuring our dignity. Right? I’m not saying that the other person isn’t held accountable. What I’m saying it is ALSO an opportunity for us to heal ourselves and therefore the implication of this is that once we are healed in these ways, our serenity is not subject to the behaviors of others.

Once we heal ourselves in these ways, our serenity is not subject, does not depend on the behaviors of other people, and this is what Buddhism means, at least in my take when Buddhism says that nothing, nothing can disturb us externally.

Nothing on the outside can disturb us once we have. realized the divinity within- once we have gotten still enough to heal all of the hurt and the damage and the splinters inside, then we are no longer subject to the pain, we are no longer subject to the distress, the emotional distress. So this is a really freeing concept. This is good news. This is good news. The good news is not that I am SO wrong also, the good news is that if I don’t want to be hurt by others. There is a clear path to ensuring that I don’t get hurt by others. It is being honest with myself looking inward at the places where there are opportunities for me to heal from my past.

This means looking openly with a willing heart at the places where I have been hypocritical. Looking at the places where I have committed murder in my mind, looking at the places where I have committed rape in my mind, looking at the places where I have cheated, lied, stolen in my mind as well. And the hurtful things that I may have done physically to other people. And by examining the places in my mind where that ego lives and thrives, where my comfort, my sense of satisfaction is justification for taking what I want from others, from doing what I want with others, I’m saying whatever I may want to say to others. When I’m able to acknowledge that part of myself, not only do I heal myself in stopping from being subject to the pain from others, but I stop creating pain for others as well. When I feel the inside of me where that ego based

deception lives, I’m no longer subject to pain from others, and I am no longer the source of pain for others. I do no harm. I do no harm to myself. And I do no harm to others. This is such good news.

What an amazing opportunity. What a wonderful gift for us to be able to go in and decide- it is a decision for us to decide how delicate. are we willing to be in the world when it relates to other people? How much pain do I need to accept from other people? How much will my serenity depend on the behaviors, actions, words, thoughts, beliefs of others? And am I ready to look inside? Where I may have fallen short of my ideals.

And begin the process of healing. Reclaim my place of peace. And shine brightly out into the world in a way that is beyond the reach of the darkness of ego. That is the good news of the spiritual axiom.

As you go out into the world, my friends, make sure that you look for the light all around you, see the goodness in others, and do no harm. And always remember to aim your light. Take care.

For more information on Mahima’s offerings and her free gift- the 21 day meditation challenge- visit https://themahimamindset.com/21-day-meditation-challenge/

For similarly themed episodes on Refractive, check out “When Purpose Gets in the Way,” “Whose Expectations Are You Trying to Meet?” and “Free Yourself from Limiting Beliefs.”

Contact host Johnny Guidry at re***************@***il.com, and visit Mahima at TheMahimaMindset.com.

Automatic transcript follows, please excuse any errors.

Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of refractive. This is Johnny G today. I am so pleased to introduce you to my guests. Her name is Mahima and she is a self-mastery mentor. She’s a mindset trainer and international best-selling author and an award-winning speaker. She’s the founder of the, my Hema mindset. Although she was born and raised in Zimbabwe, she has since spent her entire life traveling the world, and she has taught her own unique brand of mindful leadership. She has done over 10,000 hours of meditation practice. She is a sought after expert on meditation. And today she is here to talk with us about discovering your own genius. And I am so excited to dig a little bit into this amazing topic. So welcome a Hema. It’s wonderful to have you.
Speaker 3 00:01:39 Thank you so much, Johnny. Thank you for having me what a pleasure to be able to come and share my story. And, you know, your story is brilliant, remarkable, and amazing. And, um, and it’s just such a joy to be in the presence of what I call like powerful people that are like just doing what they love in the world and, you know, and spreading love enjoying the world. So it’s an honor to be here with you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:02:04 Thank you. I have to say that that’s been one of the most wonderful parts of living this lifestyle. And following this path is meeting people who spread light. And this is, so this is my tribe, right? This is my tribe. You know, a lot of people, we find our tribe and in our late adolescents or perhaps university years, or, you know, but no, my tribe it’s these people who crisscrossed the world shining brightly and helping other people to shine brightly. And so I know that this has been an important part of how you have established yourself in the world.
Speaker 3 00:02:43 Absolutely. I mean, my whole world changed when I was 22 years old and I came into contact with a tribe of people that were meditating. I meditated for the first time and got introduced to concepts, ideas, um, feelings, emotions, experiences that quite frankly, and honestly I had not previously experienced. So, and I know that meeting all of these amazing people at this particular place, it was an ashram in India, um, has changed the course of my life completely, totally and utterly. Yeah. Um, it started a healing process, which, um, I didn’t even, I needed. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:03:28 That’s right. That’s the most wonderful part about it when we discover these, these, these journeys that we didn’t anticipate. And, you know, today we look at these, we, I make assumptions about you. I don’t know. But, uh, we, I look at this part of my life and it’s so important and so precious to me and it’s something I didn’t even know I would want.
Speaker 3 00:03:52 Absolutely, absolutely. Because I come from a very, I came from a very traditional family. Um, if anyone knows anything about Zimbabwe, we, you know that in the sixties, seventies, and even eighties, early eighties, it was under apartheid. Right. Which is a very negative mindset to be brought up in, you know? So, uh, I have a lot of stuff in my childhood and I believe that a lot of our issues as adults come from things that happened in our childhood, but because we’re not taught to think about that in that way. Yeah. We don’t, we don’t realize it. And so we blame ourselves for, you know, maybe being too angry, being too, you know, what people might call lazy or being, uh, closed or being, um, you know, a negative or whatever it is that has, um, brought about the state of reality into our system.
Speaker 3 00:04:55 Right? So for me, growing up in apartheid, growing up in, uh, what I call the heat culture, because even my grandmother and my aunts and aunties and everyone around me, um, everyone was really struggling with the politics of the country. There was even a war at one point. Um, and all this affected me a lot when I was a child. And I realized later as an adult, that I was still affected by all of these things. And so the process that I think you and I talk about in our world with the refractive coaching and the stuff that I do is just really to, to, to, to get people to open up to the fact that there’s so much more joy, more love, more available inside of you, then the society leads you to believe,
Speaker 2 00:05:46 Oh, that is, that is so powerful because you know, we are, we are our own jailers. We are the people that hold us in the cage. This is a cage that we hold shut and there’s not a person on the planet, strong enough to lock us in. We do it. And we do it and discovering the freedom that I am the jailer. And I am the savior that I have been for to release myself from this. This is, this is the joy, this is the joy. And so tell me about this process of discovering your genius and discovering your mission. I imagine it must be a very satisfying part of what you do with people and I’d love to hear about it.
Speaker 3 00:06:33 Okay, awesome. So, um, I believe that we have, I call it two purposes in life. Okay. And one is the, the purpose of the soul. And I’ll explain that in a second. And one is what I call the purpose of the body. Right. So, um, so when we’re looking for a life purpose, when we’re looking for, um, you know, what is, you know, what is what I call the genius? It’s very much about what am I going to do with my time and this body. Okay. So the sole purpose is the part of us that you, your soul is the part that came into this world with nothing and is going to leave with nothing. Yeah. So there’s a part of us that is the mysterious part of it. Some people call it consciousness, some people call it awareness. Some people call it source. Some people call it God, some people call it later.
Speaker 3 00:07:29 You know, there’s different names have been used to try to explain that there is an aspect of self that moves on from this body and will travel into whichever universes or whatever you believe or don’t believe that there’s an ongoing journey. Right? So, so, um, I believe that the two purposes we have is one is the sole purpose. And one is the body purpose, or the sole purpose is all about discovering how to be a happy, um, grounded, loving kind, and respectful human to and others. And that my discovery at 22 was all about my sole purpose. Like I didn’t know about that. And I was
Speaker 2 00:08:16 Your experience in India, right? This is what you’re talking about
Speaker 3 00:08:19 Is my experience in India discovering, um, uh, what I call the self discovering peace, discovering joy, discovering, um, that I didn’t need anything. In fact, I have a sentence to describe this. My teacher in India, he taught me an inner peace, a love and a joy that is not dependent on outside circumstances, events or people. Yes. Because it’s super powerful and inner peace and love and a joy that is not dependent on external circumstances, events, or people. This is what I call a soul. Your soul’s purpose is defined its way back home. Yes. Yep. Find his way to that place where you realize you already have everything you need inside of you right now. Yeah. That’s the art of meditation, isn’t it just be being and letting go, letting go of the doer, the one to the needer trying to fix things, you know, feeling broken.
Speaker 3 00:09:25 Um, all of the things that, you know, we usually are holding onto. So it’s, it’s allowing yourself to just be, to be yourself. Yeah. Um, to go beyond the body and beyond the mind. Right. So that is for me, your sole purpose. It is doing the work to elevate yourself as a human. So even though I come from Zimbabwe, I come from hatred. I come from, um, you know, uh, uh, physical abuse, sexually abused. I come from an abusive past and all of this could be the story that I carry around with me, but because I’ve done the work to connect to my soul, I realized that I’m not my story. I’m not my pain. I’m not anger. I’m not the, the, the, the hatred. I’m not the guilt. I’m not the sexual abuse. I’m not the drama. I’m S there’s another part of me. Right. And that’s my soul. And my soul is untouched by any external, um, stuff. So that’s the first thing. I try to get people to acknowledge. Yeah. When they do with me and the work that I do, it’s like, can we look, is there more to you than your name and your students?
Speaker 2 00:10:40 Yes, listen, listen, this is, so this is just it’s revolutionary. I mean, in fact, I believe it’s the opposite of revolutionary. It’s the most basic, it’s the most basic thing. But in today in our society, it’s so revolutionary to think that you, uh, you could be locked up in justly. You could be abandoned, you could be abused and you can still love what is, yeah. You can still find love all around you, even in the midst of such tragedy. And, and this is something where I’ve struggled with this during, during the COVID pandemic, that so many people are so upset. They’re so they’re hurting about, about this. They’re, they’re, they’re, they’re hurting because of the suffering. They see they’re hurting because of the fear for their wellbeing. And I want to honor that I’m not here to tell people what their journey should look like, but I got to tell you that I’m not suffering.
Speaker 2 00:11:55 I’m not suffering. Like I, I have found beautiful avenues of living that have opened up during COVID. There are things I can do in COVID that I could never do outside of COVID. Well, I w I went to, um, New York and I was able to walk down the middle of Lexington avenue for a block, with not a single car coming. And it was just one of these experiences that I’ll never forget, you know, because this is a city with more traffic than you can imagine. And I’m just walking down the middle of a street, just soaking in what’s happening. And I had so many of these experiences, and I don’t know about you, but I have, without taking away the pain of others, I have really found so much love and beauty, um, to be harvested during this time. And I believe that that holds true during any type of difficulty.
Speaker 3 00:12:57 Absolutely. And I think I love the way you explaining this. It’s just so juicy. And I think what people need to understand is what I call the reality. Okay. And the reality is that when we came into this world, we came in as pure consciousness. If you look at a little baby, there are pure love. Yes. A baby is pure love. That’s just all a baby is right. And then as the baby starts to grow, it starts to learn about fear, about, hate, about anger, about pain, but it doesn’t know any of that stuff before we teach it that stuff. So what we’re essentially saying is even when you, I think when you’re leaving this planet, I think there’s a moment where you return back to your core. If you haven’t woken up during your life and think there’s moment, you return back to that, love you re you know, you ridden back to that, that pure essence of self. Right? So, um, so yeah, basically you are pure love. That’s why you said you’re able to experience, even in adversity, you’re able to experience love, right. Because that’s our nature. That’s
Speaker 2 00:14:09 All there is.
Speaker 3 00:14:11 Yeah. That’s our nature beyond all of the drama and all of the story, but only when we become still can we know that, right? And that’s why it’s important to create experiences for people to experience for themselves. I didn’t know about this until I experienced it. Like someone telling me, oh, your nature is love. Oh yeah. That sounds nice. But
Speaker 2 00:14:36 Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Hallmark. That’s great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:38 Yeah. So I love to actually create experiences for people. Like, look, I’ll show you what I figured out. I’ll, I’ll help to guide you into that deeper place. So you can experience what I’ve experienced. That’s what my teacher did for me. He held the space and opened up ways of perceiving myself and reality. That allow me to understand I’m not my story. Sorry. I don’t know if I can say I just said it, but I’m not my story. Right. Um, so, so yes, it’s a part of me, but it’s a part of the limited version of me. What do I mean by that? It means that I could leave my body at any second. This all could be over. I could have one night. I could have 10 nights. I could have 10 years and I could still have 50 years to live. We do not know how much time we have. So every moment is so precious every single moment. And then you’ve got to ask yourself the question. I have a choice of how I’m going to live this moment. Right. I can lean. And I always say to people, you only ever have two choices. That’s why this becomes so easy to bring it to,
Speaker 2 00:15:56 Can we bring it to me? Cause I, I, I think I know what you’re going to say. And I’m excited. So tell me,
Speaker 3 00:16:01 You only ever have two choices. You can lean into positivity, or you can lean into negativity in some way, form or shape. Always only making two decisions. Now, as you listening to this, you could be leaning into, oh, no, I don’t like this woman. I don’t like which, which is okay. You, you have the right to do that. And so you lean into that, like no rejection and whatever it is, right. Or you can lean into, wow, this is interesting. I want to hear more. Oh, I’m curious. Or always like it or whatever. Right? So you only ever making two choices when you anxiety, anxiety, it’s a choice. Anxiety is a choice. You no, one’s holding a gun to your head and saying, you have to feel anxiety right now. You can say, what is it going to bring me? What is this feeling going to bring me?
Speaker 3 00:16:49 It brings me nothing. So what can I look to be grateful for right now? So right now you could lean into gratitude. Like, oh, I’m alive. Yes. I am here. I’m in my body. And I have the opportunity today to share more intimacy and more love with the people that I care about. Whether that’s through Skype or through whatever I’m making a choice to live. Yes. Yeah. And that, because that’s honoring life, that’s honoring reality. And the fact that you honor, you don’t know how much time you have. Right. So it is actually an arrogance to think you have time first. And then once you get out of that story of, I have time you think, okay, I have this moment. What do you want to do? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:17:35 That’s right. And so tell me, bring this back to, uh, the, the, the soul mission. You said. So that’s what we’re talking about first, right? The sole mission. And so how do you figure that?
Speaker 3 00:17:47 Okay. So your sole purpose is all about working on yourself, not being happy for no reason. Uh, waking up to the reality, what I’ve just told you about. You don’t know how much time you have your hello. What do you want to do with your time? This is all what I call the soul purpose. And very essential part of finding your genius and your calling, because most people. And when I talk about genius, I talk about talent. Your genius for me is your talent. It is your, I also call it your moneymaker because let’s be let’s. And that’s why I say it’s connected to the body because without the body, you don’t need a genius.
Speaker 2 00:18:31 You are everything. You are the creator. So
Speaker 3 00:18:33 Yes. So, so the genius I call it, the body purpose is really the talent that you are going to choose to become masterful at. Okay. Yeah. So, so that’s why people get confused because they’re like, put me Hema. I am so good at, uh, at sewing and I’m good at, um, hiking and I’m good at, you know, uh, coaching and I don’t know, I can’t choose. Right. You have to choose, you have to choose, like you can have 10 talents, but are you masterful at something because that’s, what’s going to give you confidence in life to know that you bring a value, you have something to give to the world and that’s your talent. Now, some people use music, some people use, you know, uh, cooking. Some people use teaching. Some people use, um, helping people lose weight. Some people, you know, so there’s different talents that you could hone in on, in camp.
Speaker 3 00:19:35 And I see choose the talent that lights up your soul the most. Yeah. Because it’s going to be very difficult on any path you choose to really become a superstar on that path. Right. So if you say, I’m gonna take cooking and I want to do something with cooking, okay. That’s going to be a challenging path, even if you’re good at cooking, right. If you say, oh, no, I’m going to take a sewing and I’m going to do something with that. There’s going to be a challenging map. You know? So even if you pretty good at sewing, so choose the path that feels the most, like, I want to leave a legacy here. Right? So that’s your, I want to take this talent and do something meaningful in the world and just be about making money, even though your genius is your moneymaker be about making money because you know, we all know that you can make money from your talent and still be miserable. Right. And why is that? Why are people like, you know, I’ve got my money. I’ve made money. Yeah. I’ve got my talent, but they still are drowning in, in, in whatever, like negative issues, living
Speaker 2 00:20:45 A lukewarm life at best.
Speaker 3 00:20:47 Exactly. Why is that? Because of the parties first talked about, they didn’t work on their sole purpose. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:20:54 All right.
Speaker 3 00:20:55 Does that make sense? This is all about just, I am just such a grateful, grounded, centered, happy human being. I’m not like this all the time because I’m fricking human. Yeah. But I try to spend 80% of my time just saying, thank you. Thank you. I try to spend 80% of my time being helpful and kind and meaningful to others. Um, I try to spend 80% of my time feeling good about myself and the world. This is the sole purpose. And it needs to be done more than the body purpose, the body purpose. We can find that easily. Right? I’m a teacher, I’m a dancer. I’m a musician. I’m an artist. I’m a cook. I’m a, this I’m a that right. That’s all great. But what are you going to do with that talent? That makes it feel meaningful. And that’s when we switch into the mission, what I call your mission, my gift is facilitating transformation.
Speaker 2 00:21:54 I like
Speaker 3 00:21:54 That. That’s my gift. And I’m becoming masterful at this. It’s been two and a half decades. It’s in the making and I will continue to grow and I have a lot to learn and I’ve learned a lot. Um, and now my mission is to empower people, to be peaceful, powerful, and joyful in the now yes.
Speaker 2 00:22:14 Now
Speaker 3 00:22:15 In the now. Yes. So that’s my personal mission. That’s what makes me wake up in the morning and not make it about me and get sort of bogged down with all of my problems. Yeah. So I can take this gift that I have, and I can focus it on my mission, which is to empower people, to be peaceful, powerful, and joyful in the now presence of the now that’s really what I teach. I teach. I wake up, wake up, wait, hello? Hello. You’re here now. Do you realize how precious this could be open snap off a second? Yeah. Let’s come back to reality and let’s make better choices today right now about who you want to be, because nobody cares about what you achieve, what you have or what you accomplish. What makes, what they care about is who you are, what you made them feel, what you brought to the table, energetically, spiritually with love. That’s what people care about.
Speaker 2 00:23:15 That’s right. That’s right. Let me ask you then. Okay. So I’m gonna, I’m going to connect two dots that I see here. And I think that they make sense, but I want to give you a chance to comment on that by belief. And I believe from what I hearing you may feel similarly, is that if you focus on the ever present now yes. And if you build your capacity, uh, I, I, if to me, it’s more, if you, if you access your memory of how to be present in the now, uh, then your sole mission, your soul purpose, your soul purpose and your body purpose, or your genius naturally become clear, open paths. Because every answer that you could possibly need for anything in life is in the ever-present. Now that Sur is in the stillness. It is. If we desire, if we have sufficient desire to go into the stillness and ask the question, listen, and then find the guts to do what the stillness tells us to do. And once we do that, there is no more obstacle like Paolo Coelho in the alchemists says, when you follow your personal legend, the entire universe conspires in your favor. And so this is really what I believe. And I’m wondering if you might feel the same way.
Speaker 3 00:24:57 Absolutely. I have different words to describe it, but exactly the same thing. Exactly the same thing. So we’re saying the same thing, just, I would use different words. My sentence is I’m living in a friendly universe that is designed to support me. It is designed. I am designed to be here in this time and space and everything around me is designed to support me. We see this in nature, everything is called creating and coexisting together. It’s not an island on its own, right. Um, clouds are created that fall as rain that fall into a river that, you know, gives water and makes the trees grow. And there’s all this interconnected space. And then we breathe the fresh air. And so this, so we are part of this amazing ecosystem on a physical level and on an energetic spiritual level. And once you start to understand that, as you said, there’s nothing you can’t do be or have.
Speaker 2 00:26:02 Yes. Yes, that’s right. But that
Speaker 3 00:26:05 Being said, you have to stay in radical action, not right. You’ve got to stay in radical action. Like if you say, you know, whatever it is, I want to, you know, I don’t want to have a job. I want to, you know, be a global nomad like you are doing right now. This is a conscious choice. This is not like, oh, look how lucky he is. He’s just a global nomad floating. Right? No, you’ve consciously chose.
Speaker 2 00:26:32 Thank you for saying that. Yes. I love that. Yes. My ego loves hearing that because I got to tell you, it is, it is, uh, it is. I want say that so much when people say, oh, I just wish I could have a life. Like you, you don’t want to be like, you’re the only thing that’s stopping you from having a life like you, your toddler is not stopping you from having a life like me. Your job is not stopping you from having a life like me. You’re ailing. Parents are not stopping you from having a life like me. You are stopping you and you may be stopping you for wonderful, perfect reasons. Or you may be stopping yourself for fear, doubt, or ego. And you know, what everybody’s path is perfect. Everyone’s path is ideal. There is no, there is no imperfect path. Uh, but we are the ones who create the
Speaker 3 00:27:28 100 cents. And let’s explain that gaze you create how you create is through your belief systems. Yes. So your belief systems create your emotional body, which create your actions that you take, right? So let’s say I believe that, um, my education leaving school at 16, um, is going to mean that I don’t get access to certain jobs, certain opportunities and be, and I believe that because I only went to school until 16, I can’t do X, Y, Z. So this belief is going to cause an emotional state inside of me. Maybe that feeling of being stupid, a feeling of not being enough, a feeling of not, uh, you know, being able to accomplish what I want to accomplish. And then I’m going to be acting according to their belief system. Yes. So now let’s say we change the belief that, you know, in order to, you know, like you don’t need a, you know, a PhD and a master’s degree to be a international business legend.
Speaker 3 00:28:37 Yes. You just change the belief you like, you know, I can be, I can be street smart. I can be, you know, savvy. I can like, I don’t need a, um, uh, a school education to be able to be financially successful in the world. I believe that. And now I start to feel a certain way because of that belief, right? Unity’s come my way. I’m operating with that belief system, right. That education is great, but it doesn’t equal. Success equals success is a different level of smartness. So you can have PhDs, you can have master’s degrees and you can still fail, you know? Um, and you can just be street smart and savvy and succeed. So every belief is creating your reality. That’s
Speaker 2 00:29:23 100% true. So
Speaker 3 00:29:25 You believe that you are going to be taken care of you believe that you’re going to create, um, positive experiences. You create, you believe that things are gonna unfold and come to you. And by the way, I know this because I also lived a nomad life, which I still feel I’m semi there, but because I’m married and, you know, we have a place here in Switzerland, we have a little bit of a base camp, but before that I was floating around and creating magic in my life and even with my husband. Um, so, so I know that beliefs create your emotional state, create the actions that you take. And that’s why you want to surround yourself with people that don’t think like you do that can allow you to challenge some of those beliefs that you have that are keeping you in, uh, in the prison as you so beautifully put it. Yeah. So let’s
Speaker 2 00:30:21 See the prison.
Speaker 2 00:30:22 Let’s, let’s bring this to some practical, uh, some practical help for the listener. So we talked about the, uh, we talked about the sole purpose, which is really simply learning to recognize your oneness with the creator. It’s really learning to recognize your perfection and to step into that, right? And to, to stop turning to fear and doubt and all of the things that keep us, uh, small in this animal kingdom. And then there is the, uh, body mission, the genius, which is a, let’s find something that we feel joy doing, that we become masterful at. And that takes care of the logistical aspects of living our life
Speaker 3 00:31:09 And serves humanity. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:31:12 And I’m so glad you said that. Yes. Because you know, um, the concept of fulfillment, as we think about a fulfilling life requires service or usefulness, right. Fulfillment can not occur. This is what I, you know, what, can I back this up with a fact? No, but if you disagree with me, I don’t know what to tell you don’t fight me. Cause I don’t fight anymore. But you know, fulfillment requires usefulness that there is no such thing as being fulfilled through service to yourself, it requires something like that
Speaker 3 00:31:50 100% and you enemy people can try it, like look at people that are like, oh, you know, like clients that come onto our campus, you know, and they’re like, what, why do I need to be of service? Why do I need to be a server? I said, because I mean, think about what gives you the most joy. And then they started to talk about, you know, people and being able to support or help somebody, you know? Um, but you know, in some way, making someone else’s life better, but not above your own wellbeing. Let me be clear about that. Okay. This is not that like, I’m gonna get, like while you’re dying and becoming a smaller version, this is about being the best version of yourself and saying, now I’ve elevated, right? Because I’ve worked on my self on a soulful level and maybe in process, you’ve created more abundance in your life because that, that has to happen. Okay. There’s no way you can elevate yourself and not elevate your, your abundance. That means
Speaker 2 00:32:51 Fruits.
Speaker 3 00:32:54 It’s just not possible. Right. That higher frequency brings in more gorgeous people, more great opportunities. And you know, and I see it all the time because people come on our campus and they’re like, ah, miracles are happening now. Oh my God. And it’s maybe too fast. And I’m like, sweetheart, it’s not too fast. Ready for this already say yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 00:33:25 So yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the being of service, that’s the mission, right? So you take your genius, which is your talent. You choose a talent, cause yes, you may have 10 talents. But if you want to be, if you look at anyone in the world that you admire anybody, they ha they chose a path to become masterful at. And then maybe they branched out. Right. So Beyonce, she didn’t start with trying to act, trying to design, trying to, you know, she started with as a singer. And when she got to the high level, then other doors opened, she became a triple threat. Then she’s acting and she’s an entrepreneur or fancy stuff. Right. But her initial grind was taking her talent to the highest level. She could play that game. Right. It required focus and energy. So I know lots of people might be like, yeah, that’s maybe old school. It’s not old school. It is new school. It’s today’s school. Don’t be all over the place, choose a talent and nurture that talent until the talent gives back to you. Yes. Yes. And it will, it will. There’s no other way that this can happen. If you commit to your talent and becoming masterful and using it to serve others, there’s only one way this thing can go, which is
Speaker 2 00:34:39 Right. That’s right. Here’s the, here’s the corollary to that. That if you believe pursuing your talent, won’t pay the bills, then you are correct. You know, that’s the thing. Now, if you want to sell jewelry at a flea market and also make $250,000 a year, I’m not saying that that’s not possible. I’m saying you have a heck of a road ahead of you to figure out if that’s, what, if though, if those two things are both required for you, but the question is, why do you want $250,000 income? Like, like, is that really what your soul is asking for? Or is that what your ego or fear or discomfort or doubt is asking for, you know, or is that what someone else in your life is telling you to ask for? Um, when I listened to my inner soul, sure. I would love, I would love to make a quarter of a million dollars a year. That would be so wonderful. It would be delightful. Um, but when I asked my inside, is that, is that something I should pursue my insights say, no, baby, no, no, no. You’re, you’re all your needs are met. All your needs are met. So some, some, uh, you know, random number that you fixated on for income that is you trying to control that is you trying to take the unknown out of life. And the only way to take the unknown out of life is to go inside and get in touch with the stillness.
Speaker 3 00:36:14 Absolutely. I, I, you know, I agree that we should be very deep listening to the, why do we want this? Yes.
Speaker 2 00:36:23 That’s it really wrong with high income? No. Why need it? Yes,
Speaker 3 00:36:31 Exactly. Yeah, because you know, like, I, I don’t, I personally come from the school where, you know, uh, money and spirituality can dance very beautifully together. Very beautiful. We remove the limiting beliefs that they shouldn’t dance beauties. I’ve noticed in the spiritual scene or world, there is a sort of like, like a downplay on money can be there. Like, you know, like you shouldn’t want money. If you’re spiritual, you should just be like, Hey, you know, I got the spirit and I want to tell my personal story. Um, I used to say things like, um, I don’t need money. I don’t need money. I, I, I, in a piece is what matters to me. Right. And I said that and repeated that. And then, uh, my joke now is, you know, I didn’t need money and money ended up not needing me either. Okay. And this is very unpleasant.
Speaker 3 00:37:26 I went through a bankruptcy with my husband. Um, we had to file for bankruptcy. It was a very challenging time in our lives. Um, and, uh, and then when I was 40 I’m 50 now, um, I was financially dependent on my husband. We sort of crude our way through, you know, the bankruptcy. Um, and we were better, but I, and I still was prance. I say prancing, cause I literally used to prance around like, you know, like I used to run around and I was saying it ISO still hadn’t learned from their bankruptcy. Right. And I was saying, and so we were going down towards the second bankruptcy and that’s when I said, I got to stop saying this because I do care about money. I do not want to be like 45 years old. And like, feeling like, I don’t know where money is.
Speaker 3 00:38:21 Like, like I, this is not the life I want. It’s not the life I saw for myself. So I made a decision to have a completely, my shift around money. And I started to say, money loves me. And I love money. I love money. And money loves me. We have a good relationship. And yes, money, money comes to me in increasing quantities from multiple sources on a continuous basis while enriching lives. I’m so happy and grateful that money comes to me in increasing quantities from multiple sources on a continuous basis. And I started saying this, which I got from Bob Proctor, this mantra, I started seeing this mantra and started to kind of heal that part of me that didn’t there was rejecting money. Right. And, uh, and you know, my life completely changed after that. You know, so I’m here as a kind of, you know, recovering, you know, um, the spiritual hippie who rejected who say, listen, I do, you know, like I need to get my shit together on this level as well, because that’s part of the holistic, you know, self care. So, so, so I think for anyone listening, yes, it’s important to ask, why do you want this? But also you need to believe that you deserve the very best that life has to
Speaker 2 00:39:50 Offer. That’s right.
Speaker 3 00:39:52 You have the very best that life. And you get to define what that very best is.
Speaker 2 00:39:56 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. The ego attaches to the idea of giving up money just as easily as it attaches to the idea of needing to be rich, you know? And so it’s about understanding, am I, uh, am I trying to be a moneyless spiritual person because it makes me feel special and superior, you know, because that is every bit as, um, detrimental to your soul growth as needing to make a certain income. They both equal opposites for sure.
Speaker 3 00:40:37 Beautiful. I’m so glad we touched on this topic because it’s so important. And I, I don’t know if it’s more important for women or for men, right. Because men in neatly have had for centuries the training, you’ve got to get the money.
Speaker 3 00:40:54 You know what I’m saying? There’s no question about it. We got to go for that money. Okay. Sometimes to their own detriment. Okay. But as women, there’s a tendency to at least I had that for sure. Like, uh, yeah. I mean, the money’s going to come and we flow and you know, and this kind of ideas, until, as I said, I was staring down the barrel of a potential second bankruptcy where I thought, oh, I was expecting my husband to save me, you know? And, and I’ve let my, I’ve lost myself on this level. And I need to take charge of myself. I need to take charge of my responsibility to myself, to be financially standing on my own two feet. It was really tough period in my life because I had to, I really have had to what I call own my B S and I had look at myself in the mirror and say, you know, Hema, come on, you’re better than this. Right. Um, you know, go after what you truly want. Like, what do you really want? And what I wanted was to be able to, to stand up on my own feet, be financially independent, doing what I love. Yes,
Speaker 2 00:42:07 Yes,
Speaker 3 00:42:08 Yes. But I thought, I need to figure this out. I need to figure this out and how I figured it out was getting help. I couldn’t figure it out by myself. So there’s anyone listening to this? There, there, there is always people like myself, like Johnny, like other people that have gone past their limitations and therefore they can show you how to do that. You don’t need to figure this out on your, on your own. No. Get someone to walk the path with you that you, that you feel connected to. And, you know, I’m so glad that I’ve, you know, had the courage to, to do own my BS and say, listen, this has to change. I can not have this repeat in five years. Right. Um, at my 40th birthday, I was like, this is ridiculous. I do not want to be here at 45.
Speaker 3 00:42:59 And I certainly don’t want to be here at 50. Right. Yeah. And I intended this. So by 50, I blown my own mind. I’ve completely lost my relationship with money. I’ve created independence. I’ve created success. I work with my husband together very happily. And we have just completely changed our lives because we changed our belief system. Yeah. And, and my belief was, I don’t care about money. I care about peace. That was my belief. Okay. And it wasn’t helping me. So I got rid of that one. I care about peace and money. Okay. I can care about both at the same time. It doesn’t make me a bad person.
Speaker 2 00:43:42 Let me ask you a hemo. If listeners want to learn more about what you do and how you show up in the world and, uh, or if they just really enjoyed your energy and kind of want to just connect with you in some way. Uh, what do you,
Speaker 3 00:43:57 Okay. So I recommend that you would go to the, my Hema mindset.com
Speaker 2 00:44:06 In the show notes, for sure.
Speaker 3 00:44:07 Yeah. So T H E and then my name Matt Hema, and how to spell this is just think of mama with a high. Yeah. So ma H I M E my Hema, um, mindset.com and what you will have as a juicy, wonderful gift is you will have my 21 day meditation challenge. So you can start connecting to your soul purpose to day. So you can start feeling the power of the now and feel the presence of that simplicity that is love and beauty inside of you. And yes, I can get you there within, you know, 10 do I think most of the recordings are like about 13 minutes a day for 21 days, all you need to do is commit and you can do it on your own. It’s just the journey you can download and do it on your own. And it’s going to give you more peace, more, love, more joy.
Speaker 3 00:45:07 That’s what people tell me that do this. So it’s not me blowing my own trumpet. That’s what people have told me. They’re like, oh my God, this challenge is amazing. Uh, and it’s just a few minutes and it’s completely free. So you can go over there and get rocking with that. And then of course you can join us at the Mahima mindset page on Facebook, um, as well. And also, uh, I think it’s Mahima mindset on Instagram. Yeah. My mindset on Instagram. So I would love to meet you, enjoy the challenge. I hope you have fun with it. Um, you can do it also with friends and family as a 21 day challenge to just connect to deeper inner peace.
Speaker 2 00:45:43 Yes, exactly. And as I mentioned in the beginning of the show, you know, Mahima has spent over 10,000 hours in meditation practice. And so this is something that she has dedicated her life to so many, not only episodes of refractive, but so many of the listeners of refractive are just embarking on this spiritual journey and are finding the courage to go inside and find the stillness. So if meditation is something that’s challenging, we’ve talked about this before on other episodes of medicine, meditation is something that you feel is, is, is, uh, as a challenge for you. Uh, definitely go to the Mahima mindset.com and take a look at this challenge because 21 days is enough time for you to build a habit. And so having someone to guide you through, uh, walking into your stillness and, and growing comfortable in that spot is invaluable. So thank you for that behemoth.
Speaker 3 00:46:38 You’re welcome. Thank you everyone for your time here. Thank you, Johnny. For, as I said, continuing to be a beautiful light in this world, bringing these conversations to people, so really appreciate it. I’ve had a lot of fun. Thank you so much joy.
Speaker 2 00:46:54 Yes. Thank you everyone. Remember that as you go out into the world and you find people who are struggling and who are trudging along the path of a difficult life, uh, we are all just doing the very best we can. So be good to each other and never pass up an opportunity to aim your light. Make it a good one. Bye everybody.
Speaker 3 00:47:15 Beautiful.
Speaker 2 00:47:17 You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a, if you’re on YouTube, click like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, re***************@***il.com . Have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember, aim your light.

Find more information about Dan at www.dreamwithdan.com

Find Dan’s books by clicking here and his podcast, “Do It with Dan” here.

For similarly themed episodes, try: Free Yourself from Limiting Beliefs, Guided Meditation: What’s My Purpose, or Surrender to Greatness.

For more information on host Johnny G, visit www.refractivecoaching.com.

Episode transcript follows. Please excuse any misinterpretations by the transcription software.

Find Marlon on Facebook by searching his name or clicking here.

For similarly-themed episodes, try “From Addiction to Self Acceptance” or “Making Peace with our Dark Side.”

Contact Johnny at jo****@****************ng.com or visit www.refractivecoaching.com for more information on services to help you step into your authentic power for a life that feels right.

Transcript follows- please excuse any errors from the transcription software.

Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of refractive podcast. Today I have with me, a dear friend, Marlon Fixico. He is a descendant on both his mother and his father’s side of spiritual leaders and medicine people. He is part of the Cheyenne tribe and the Seminole tribe. How are you Marlon? Welcome to refractive.
I’m feeling good today. Thanks, John.
I am delighted that you are with us, you and I had an opportunity to visit not long ago. And you were telling me just a little bit about, uh, some of your spiritual history and some interesting things that happen to you. And because refractive is a show, that’s all about people kind of stepping into their most authentic selves and listening to their inner guidance and being in touch with kind of that high level, knowing of what our souls want for us in life. I thought you would be a really, um, a valuable guest on the show to share with listeners some of your experiences in that. And so I, I guess I’ll just kind of run down, uh, a basic premise of the episode today and then I’ll start digging in. Does that sound okay? That was good. All right. So you had, uh, told me when we were together, uh, just a little bit about your background and how your culture had influenced your spiritual life, your spiritual journey, the awakening that you’ve had and all of that. So I would love for you to just take us through that journey for you. What was your spiritual path like?
Speaker 3 00:02:24 So, um, as you said in the introduction, I come from a long line of spiritual leaders and medicine people. Um, I would go down to the last, but it’s pretty extensive, but just suffice to say, uh, even my, uh, immediate parents, uh, were very spiritual and healers. Um, they, uh, never like advertise that, that that’s what they were that’s just too, they were, and I think that’s a mark of a true spiritual leaders. You don’t, they don’t need to tell you that they are, you just, somehow people just find out that they just know. And, uh, so I grew up a lot with my Cheyenne grandmother, my mother’s mother, and, uh, in my formative years. And she’s the one who taught me a lot of the things that I later in life, uh, rediscovered, so to speak. Um,
Speaker 2 00:03:39 Well, spirituality, something that, um, in your earlier life, like when you were an adolescent, uh, were you open to kind of receiving that wisdom from your family?
Speaker 3 00:03:50 Uh, I would say there was a turning point when I was around 12 where I stopped caring about spiritual things previous to that. Uh, I used to go to, uh, in the summertimes. Uh, I grew up in Oklahoma city, but my grandmother lived in rural Oklahoma and in the summertimes, I would spend it with her and we’d go to, uh, Indian ceremonies, do a lot of camping and fishing and just out in nature a lot. And then, um, uh, go to a lot of powerhouse. So I was raised around spiritual ceremonies. Uh, people would come and they’d have all my prayer services at my grandmother’s house. And, you know, I was a little kid, I didn’t really know what was going on. I just knew they had this big breakfast in the morning, which I really enjoyed. Uh, I would sleep through the prayer service and wake up in time for breakfast.
Speaker 3 00:04:50 Yes. But, uh, but I remember at one point I was about, I don’t remember exactly when seven or eight, um, first or second grade I was, I was spending the summer with my grandmother and this white lady came and she, and grandma had this long talk. I didn’t know what they’re talking about or the next thing I knew I was going to Sunday school. I didn’t know what Sunday school I just got in the car with this white lady. And we went to this building where all these white people were and they were talking about something called God. And then after I got home that day, I asked her mother, what, what was God? I said, they kept talking about God at that place. She said, well, in the Cheyenne language, the word for God, we call God is my hail hail means. Um, we don’t know, we don’t know what it is, but it’s everything.
Speaker 3 00:05:51 And from that point forward, it just stuck with me as a S you know, seven or eight year old kid. Grandma said, that’s what it was. And that’s what it was word for God. You know what I mean? I don’t know what it is. It’s just that it’s everything, it’s everything. And so, um, for a long time, I, I would hear people speaking about God and that’s what was in my mind. But around 12 years old, 11 or 12, my father, he was an alcoholic. And he stopped drinking at that age, my age, and, um, started going to church. And once you started going to church, you said, I couldn’t go spend any more time with my grandmother because she was pagan and she was going to go to hell. So I knew that was wrong, but, you know, he was dad. So, uh, I started going to a different kind of church.
Speaker 3 00:06:47 It was a native American church, but it was Southern Baptist. It was kind of a conjunction of Southern Baptist, native American. They spoke, our language is saying our language, but, um, it was basically Southern Baptist. Okay. And, um, so I adapted to that. And then I started adopting this idea, you know, they, they talked about from time to time that, you know, men shall not lay with another man that is abomination. So I, you know, that was like emblazoned in my brain, uh, because I like men and how I was, I was around 11 or 12. Yeah. And, uh, and it, and it continued on until I left home at 18. But, uh, I was, I struggled for all those years with my spirituality and sexuality. I knew that there was God. I prayed to God to change me all the time, but, um, you know, the have never happened.
Speaker 3 00:07:55 So, um, I went to college and, um, I was in love with my best friend who was straight, nothing happened between us, but, um, eventually, uh, he got a girlfriend and, you know, we split up, uh, we didn’t spend as much time together. And, uh, I found a woman who was just as crazy as I was. And I told she was the first person I told that I was gay. Yeah. And we became best friends. She didn’t care. She was like, oh yeah, that’s fine. It’s not a big deal to me. So we stayed together for like six months, just hanging out and getting drunk and having fun and going to school and everything that people do in college. But, uh, when time came to graduate, uh, I couldn’t imagine my life without her. So, uh, I told her that and she said, well, does that mean you want to get married?
Speaker 3 00:09:03 That’s a proposal for you right there. But I thought about it. I said, no, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah, let’s get married. Let’s do it. And so, uh, so we were married five years. We have two kids. And then, um, eventually the alcoholism took its toll on our relationship and our marriage. And, uh, I left her and I went to Washington DC and became gay. No, I was already gay, but, uh, I was just, it was a 1983 and it was at the height of the aids crisis. And, you know, it was just getting to be a big thing. I remember that time magazine came out with a big article, had the word aids on the front. And, um, I just thought I was going to die. I mean, I had a Christian upbringing that said that what I was doing was wrong and I said, well, it’s wrong then I’m just gonna go for it.
Speaker 3 00:09:59 And, uh, I didn’t care. Uh, I left my children, which were the most important thing to me, but then, um, it was, it was horrible. And so, um, I drank for about 18 years, I was 37 when I got sober in Washington DC. And, um, I was at that point that I was sober for about a year. And then I started seeing things and having visions and having dreams. Yeah. And my, uh, my grandmother was, was, she would come to me in my dreams a lot. Um, my, I had a therapist too, who did, um, guided meditation and my grandmother appeared during his guided meditation. She was right there. I was like, okay. It was funny because he would talk to her. He would say he would ask me a question and I, and she would answer. And so I would just tell him what she said.
Speaker 3 00:11:06 Uh, but she’s always been with me. She’s like, um, my guardian angel. Yeah. Um, and she was, uh, she’s the Cheyenne, uh, grandmother. So, um, on my dad’s side, I trace this back to before the Seminoles were transferred from Florida. Uh, and my ancestor was what was the leader of the tribe at the time when they were being transferred. And my, uh, uh, my grandmother’s, uh, my father’s male lineage, that was him, but my grandmother on his mother’s side, her, uh, ancestor was a medicine man who was partners with the leader who came. So they suck. We have all this connection between the leaders in spiritual people. Yeah. And the tribe really, uh, have, uh, a lot of myths and stories about medicine people. Uh, they can control the weather, uh, they can make glove potions and they can make you sick. So, um, there all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 00:12:27 Anyway, I grew up in, uh, all this with my, my grandmothers, my mother’s line. There were, uh, well, the biggest one, his name is black kettle. He was a peace chief who was killed by George Custer back in 18 80 18, 68 in Oklahoma. It wasn’t Oklahoma yet. But, um, so, uh, and then my grandfather, uh, her husband, um, he was the first leader of the, uh, native American church, which people know as a pod church. Okay. And, um, I don’t know if people know, but I mean, there’s a lot of research being resurgent research on, uh, hallucinogenics and how helpful it is, especially to addicts. Um, the trouble with what happened in the sixties was that they were using it in a proper way, uh, recreationally. And it was never meant to be recreational. So anyway, uh, the native American church has a very strict, uh, guidelines on how to use a pod.
Speaker 3 00:13:43 And, uh, and then in ceremony and, uh, anyway, so my grandfather was, he was, um, on a tribal council. He was the first president of the, uh, um, native American church. And I had all these things on me growing up, you know, in grade school, we took Oklahoma history and they talked about black kettle. And, um, I knew he was my ancestor, but after more and more, I learned about all these people in my ancestors. It was like, it was like this heavy burden. It’s like, oh, what am I supposed to do? And my mom, she wanted me to become a preacher, a Seminole Baptist preacher, which I did do some preaching when I was a teenager. But, um, I mean, I was one of the biggest hypocrites. I was having sex with boys at the same time, going to church preach out. But, um, but, uh, so I would build against all of it.
Speaker 3 00:14:48 And so when I, by the time I, uh, went to college and I started drinking, uh, it was, I was out of the, I wanted to get out from underneath of being that legacy. I didn’t want to be a spiritual person. I didn’t want to be a spiritual leader. I didn’t want to learn medicine. I didn’t want to do any of it. And then, um, and then, you know, fast forward, 18 years later, I, uh, got sober and all these things come to me. And, uh, I don’t tell us too many people, but I can see people’s auras. Uh, I remember when I told my therapist that, and I thought I was, you know, I had to be honest cause I, you know, that’s how therapy works. Yeah. And so, uh, he showed me these pictures from this book by, I forgot her name, but anyways called hands of light.
Speaker 3 00:15:46 And it was all about studying, uh, supernatural phenomenon and, and, uh, she had pictures of people with auras and I was like exactly what I saw. And so I didn’t feel so crazy after he showed me that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, and then I, I got sober through a 12 step programs and the most, and the more I heard them talk about the principles of the program, the more I heard my grandmother, um, the things that she taught me, she didn’t sit down and say, this is this, and this is that she just lived it. And then I watched her and, and um, so when they would talk about things, so that’s what my grandmother used to do. That’s what my grandmother used to say. And then I came a little bit by a little bit, it came back to me and, uh, I realized that, um, whether I wanted to be a spiritual person or not, I was, yeah. I mean,
Speaker 2 00:16:49 We all are, that’s the thing.
Speaker 3 00:16:52 So, um, I started becoming more, just open. I don’t, you know, there’s a lot of, uh, in college, I studied engineering and I really love physics and there’s a, there’s a scientific explanation for everything.
Speaker 2 00:17:11 Oh, I can’t believe you’re going there. I can’t believe Marlin because let me tell you something like, okay, I am just enraptured with all of these concepts of how spiritual phenomena are really manifestation or physics, actually it, on this plane manifests from spiritual phenomenon, right? Like the whole idea of waves and frequency and the idea of even things like surface tension. And there’s just so many of physics that is mirrored, uh, to spiritual phenomena that we read about and that we hear about that. It, it blows your mind if you go down this rabbit hole. So you just got me really excited when you mentioned, sorry, go ahead. Keep going, keep going.
Speaker 3 00:18:06 That’s okay. I, you just remind me one of the big things for me is the idea of, um, what the nature of light is, you know, it’s like, is it a wave or is it a linear, uh, particle? Yeah, but it’s like, it’s both. And that’s what spiritual, it’s a spiritual, spiritual things are paradox. So I can be one thing and the other thing at the same time, but it can, and it is. And I, you know, I used to share that with, with my sponsees over and over again, this is like, uh, how can you be sad and happy at the same time? You can,
Speaker 2 00:18:47 There is a writing by Zuckoff who, if people were fans of Oprah, they’ll, they’ll recognize Gary Zukav because he was a guest over the years, many times when she had spiritual, uh, topics. But he talks about how, um, in this interesting situation where light is both a wave and a particle that, um, whether it appears as a wave or as a particle is dependent upon the intention of the observer. Um, that the way the, um, experiment is designed dictates whether light appears as a particle or as a wave. And that this is a beautiful parallel to our lives, that we are the creator, we are the architect, and that it is our intention of how we wish to view an object that causes the object to take that form. And it just, oh, I just, I love it. It gives me goosebumps. I have goosebumps right now when I let myself sink into that. So I love this and I didn’t know that you had that scientific background.
Speaker 3 00:20:01 Yeah, it really, so, I mean, the point of that for me is that there are, there are many supernatural things that I have experienced in my lifetime and, um, that are seemingly unexplainable. But if you, if I were to told a scientist, some of the things that I experienced, they could figure out it was scientific explanation. But to me, it doesn’t matter if you can explain it or not. To me, it’s just, I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know what it is, but it’s everything. So, uh, uh, I’ll just to back up a little bit. I went, when I was, um, in college, I was before I met my then wife, um, I was about 1918 or 19. I can’t remember, but I had a roommate. I was 19. It was my second year. And my roommate was, uh, 35, which I thought was old at the time.
Speaker 3 00:21:05 And he was from, um, um, reservation in Wyoming when we have a reservation. And, um, he was, uh, apprentice turned medicine, man. And so, uh, on spring break, he invited me to come to come home with him. And so I did, and we, during the week we built three sweat lodges. Uh, he was the medicine man that he worked with, uh, what he would, you know, whenever somebody would need a healing or somebody was sick or somebody who was in trouble. So we would go out and have a sweat lodge at their house. One of them was actually in the mountains. It was beautiful. But, uh, the third one, uh, uh, I went in and the medicine man said that he saw that I had seven spirit people that had, they told him that they had come in to the world when I was born and that they would be with me until the day I died and that if I needed anything, they would, if I asked them, uh, in a proper way that I would, they would help me.
Speaker 3 00:22:18 And, uh, they would do their best to protect me. Not that they, if I did some stupid things that my medicine, man, didn’t say that he said, you can choose wrongly and you might die. I’m not saying they’re going to protect you from everything, but they’ll protect you, uh, as much as they can. And so, um, that, wasn’t great for an alcoholic because I really put them to the test. I mean, at times, but, but, uh, the last thing was that he gave me this, um, it was like a root. Some of my friends said it’s probably valerian root, but I don’t know. I didn’t ask him. It was just a really, really tiny piece of wood to me. He told me that you want it and then spit it in my hands and then wipe it on my face. And, uh, he said, don’t do this until you’re ready to go to bed.
Speaker 3 00:23:14 And so, uh, my friend who I went there with was sitting right next to my bed. Um, and I did what he said, and I rubbed my face with that stuff. And I laid my head down and I went right to sleep. And next thing, next thing I know I was, I was flying in the air and I was, and I was freaked out. I was like, holy moly. And I started to say something and out of my mouth came this Eagle screen. And I was like, what is that? And then, uh, I looked at my arms and they were wings and I could feel the wind holding me up in the air as I glided on the, on the wind. And I looked around and I saw a forest, my saw mountains. And, uh, I went and laid, I went and landed on a, on a branch.
Speaker 3 00:24:06 It was a pine tree branch. And I could feel the weight of my body as it landed on the branch. And I grabbed it with my claws. I mean, all these little minute details, I still remember to this day. And then I looked in and saw these mountains and I decided to go to the mountains. I wanted to go, ha CII could go. So I started going through the mountains and then beneath me, I saw a river and I could see the sunlight rippling off the top of the little, uh, waves on the, on the river. And I could see beneath the surface and there was a salmon. It wasn’t real big, but it was, it was a good size. And I thought I could pick up that salmon. And the salmon said, uh, well, if you could catch me and I said, what? I didn’t know, salmon could talk.
Speaker 3 00:24:57 Uh, and so the doc either. And then, so, um, I said, uh, can I catch you to eat? And he said, well, if you can catch me, you can eat me. And so I went down and it was real easy. I caught it, but he started to flip-flopping all over the place. And I had a good hook on him. I’m in my claws into him, but he’d knocked me off balance. And I landed on a sandbar in the middle of the river. And I thought I was going to break my wing or something, but I just tumbled. And with him still in my claws. And, uh, it didn’t hurt. It’s like, wow, that was interesting. And so then I started eating the salmon and then I could still taste how delicious it is and my mouth let me to this day, I love salmon. And, um, now all of a sudden over this Ridge, uh, there was a big bear and he was all growly.
Speaker 3 00:25:55 I want that. I want that fish. And I just looked at him and I said, I’m done I’m for it. You can have dressed. So I just, and I just took off and the bear came down and ate the rest of the fish. Yeah. And, um, I flew to the mountains and I float higher and higher and higher. And I remember I couldn’t go, I couldn’t go any higher. And I just landed on a cliff, this little ragged edge. And then I looked in, I felt like I could see the whole world. It was like forever. I could see, I could see cities and fields and other mountains. And it was just, it was amazing. And that’s when I woke up and my S my, I told my friend that, and, um, and my friend said that the Eagles are your family and that, uh, all the birds are your cousins. Your first cousins were related to everyone, all the animals. If you ever need any help with you, the, the Eagles will show up and they will help you. And, uh, I can’t tell you how many times I was lost either emotionally or physically and Eagle would show up. Uh, when I buried my son, uh, three equals came over and, uh, showed me the spot where I was supposed to bury him. And, um, so, uh, I have a real affinity for Eagles. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:27:32 That’s powerful. So what, uh, being at such an early age, right? You were maybe 19, uh, when that happened. Um, did, were you ready for that to influence you life or did that have to come back later and influence your path at a, at a later time? Mm,
Speaker 3 00:27:51 Thanks for saying that. I forgot to tell you the last part of the message for the medicine, man was you are a powerful spiritual leader and your people need you, and you can start right now today, but if you don’t, you can go the other path and there’s no guarantee that you’ll live, but if you do live, you’ll still be the leader you’re supposed to be, but it’s up to you. And so, uh, of course I chose the other, other path,
Speaker 2 00:28:25 The party path, the party
Speaker 3 00:28:27 Pash. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:28:29 I’m familiar with that path.
Speaker 3 00:28:31 So, so yeah, it, it, didn’t, didn’t, I just sort of, I tucked it away in my mind that as a way to, I don’t know, it was like, I felt invincible, which is not a good thing. It’s like, it made me take really stupid choices. Yeah. And do things that I shouldn’t have done. I mean, I was 64 years old. I came, uh, into, uh, out gay man in 1983. And I don’t know how many times, how many people, how many men I had unprotected sex with and I’m HIV, HIV negative. Yeah. So it’s like all my friends that I lived with back then, they’re all dead. Yeah. And, uh, most of the night of aids and, um, I don’t know how I’m not, I’m not, I’m not for a reason. And I accept that. So where does,
Speaker 2 00:29:38 Okay then, like, what is your, now that you have the experience of recovery to kind of clear your mind and clear your spirit and you have these formative experiences, how did, uh, how did your spirituality finally take shape?
Speaker 3 00:29:55 Well, I, part of a part of me is missing. I’ll be honest. I have a part of me belongs in Oklahoma, and I have every intention of moving back there, you know, before the end of the year, hopefully. Yeah. I, um, there are ceremonies and there’s other things. I just feel drawn that there’s, whatever part of my next journey is, is there. Um, but in the meantime, uh, I spent a lot of time in Washington, especially I spent 18 years of my sobriety in Washington, uh, working with, um, other addicts and alcoholics, you know, mostly men, mostly gay men, but there was a handful of straight people and then a handful of women. And, um, I, I just shared whatever I have with them, my sponsees. And now that I’m in Idaho, I moved back because my ex wife was dying and my children wanted to be close to her before she passed away.
Speaker 3 00:31:06 And so, um, now she’s gone, that’s come. I want to move back to Oklahoma cause she’s gone. But my grandchildren are the most important thing to me, everything that I have, I want to pass on to them so that they can pass it on. So, um, uh, there’s a lot of, I mean, when I go back to Oklahoma, that one of the things that medicine people do is kind of like a priest. It’s like, when people are sick, you go pray for them. And when people die, you go and officiate their, um, their funerals. And then, you know, people have celebrations, your it’d become like a MC for their family to talk and, and keep people moving and going and, um, and just be an advisor to people who are seeking spiritual advice. So that’s where I feel drawn to next. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:32:04 Um,
Speaker 3 00:32:06 So does that answer your question?
Speaker 2 00:32:08 Absolutely. And so you mentioned speaking of, kind of the, the phenomena aspect that you’ve experienced, you mentioned last time we talked that you had wood. I don’t know if it’s appropriate to call it a near death experience or what, um, but you said that you went into a coma, um, in a period of hospitalization in the past year and that while you were in a coma for a period of time, you had, uh, some experiences that have been formative for you. So would you tell us a little bit about how all that came about?
Speaker 3 00:32:43 So, um, I can track to COVID at the beginning of December and I was in a coma for, um, well, I woke up from my coma on, um, December 24th, Christmas Eve. Okay. Um, and, um, while I was in the coma, just before I woke up and I did die twice, I, they kicked me off the ventilator and I wasn’t able to be there, my own, my heart stopped. And so they put me back on and then they did that twice. And so the third time they said, we’re going to take them off if he doesn’t make it, it doesn’t make it. And so a third time I kept on going. So I walked back up. But, uh, in that last part, I don’t know. I mean, every time is different when you’re just in a dream state. Yeah. So, um, I saw it was, I was in the hospital room where I was, and I in the hallway was a bright light coming from the end of the hallway. I couldn’t see the light. I just could see it lighting up the walls.
Speaker 2 00:34:03 And you see your body, you mean like where you, like looking down on yourself or where you, as if you were laying in the,
Speaker 3 00:34:08 I was laying in the bed. Okay. I was laying in the bed and, um, I could hear my parents. I was my mother first. And, um, she told me that everything was going to be okay and that I could come with them. Um, and, uh, they would take care of me and, and I felt already a sense of warmth and calmness. Um, and my, and then I have a younger brother who’s 10 years younger than me. He passed away two years ago and he was there and he said, yeah, why don’t you come? And we’ll have a great time. And I really wanted to be with him, uh, too. And then my father, my father being my father, there’s typical of him. So he, it kinda got onto my mom and he said, quit trying to tell him what to do my own mind since you’re influencing him.
And my mom said, well, yeah, I am. But, um, and she said, I want him to come with this. He’s he’s, he’s, he’s not doing really well. And that said, he’ll be okay. I said, what’s, but it’s up to him. And he, and then he spoke to me directly. He said, son, if you want to come with us, you can come with us. Um, but if you don’t want to come, you don’t have to, it’s up to you. And I thought about it for a minute and I almost decided to go. And then, and then I remembered my two daughters and their mother had just died a year before that. And I didn’t want to put him through that. I just kept thinking that I can’t put them through that. So I said, no, I’m going to go back. And, um, so, and then I got I’m back.
Um, but ever since then, I, um, it’s hard to describe my feelings and attitudes toward death. I could tell you that it’s, I don’t have any fear, but it’s more than that. It’s just like, it’s a part of breathing. Dying is a part of breathing. Uh, it just, I mean, you stop and, uh, it’s okay. You just stop this thing, whatever we call life. And then you go to the next thing, whatever it is. I don’t know what it is, but I’m not afraid of it. And, you know, um, it sounds kind of morbid, but, um, you know, I look forward to going when it’s, when it’s my time, I really look forward to it. It’s like, it’s something, something to look forward to, not to something to be afraid of. That’s part of it too. Yeah.
Would you say that, um, would you say that you feel kind of a shifting in your mission after that, since you kind of specifically thought of your children and maybe even grandchildren and, uh, and that’s why you made the choice to come back, or is that not a part of your, uh, your math right now? Um,
Speaker 3 00:37:28 I, I don’t really think it is. Uh, I was reading an article about different types of people. We talk about that in the program. Uh, there, you know, there’s all kinds of people with different sort of personality traits, and I’m the type of person who is a very, uh, spontaneous, uh, uh, I don’t like to make plans. Uh, and, uh, you know, I don’t mind having a goal, something to work towards, but it’s gotta be very big. It can’t be like concrete because it feels like, you know, it’s like if I make a plan to make, you know, a hundred million dollars and that’s one thing, if I make a hundred thousand dollars walk, wow, I made a hundred thousand dollars. Uh, and I didn’t even make a hundred million dollars. I don’t care, but it’s like, it, it’s more of a, what I call in math vector.
Speaker 3 00:38:27 It’s like, it’s a direction to go. It’s not something that I, uh, want to necessarily achieve. And so, um, so having all this, this, uh, near to the experience, um, it just sort of reinforces that, you know, life is short. I don’t know what’s going to happen around the corner. I’m gonna wake up in the morning. And what my biggest experience I could share with people is that in the moment that I’m living is the moment that I know what I’m supposed to do next. Yes. Oh, keep going. It’s never failed me. I mean, there are many, many, many times when I was leading a meeting or, or, uh, one time I, when I was in college, I was a part of what’s called American Indian science and engineering society. And we always have a ceremony at the beginning of the annual conference and at the end of the end in Congress, and there was a Navajo, uh, student who was my, or had co-leaders.
Speaker 3 00:39:42 Uh, and so at the very last, uh, session, uh, we decided to put together, well, I brought a shell with some Cedar, a Sheba, a ball of water, the Navajos have this water ceremony, and we have the Sage, uh, Cedars ceremony. So, um, I brought Cedar and she brought the water and people, whoever wanted to share would come up to the center of the room. And there must’ve been like three, 400 people in that room. And it was the middle of a ballroom. And we sit and we were sitting in the center and they would come to the middle and we would, I would S uh, smudge them and she would sprinkle some water on them. And then, and then they would share, um, afterwards there was a man who said, uh, how did you guys come up with that ceremony? And we thought of it about 30 minutes before the session we just put together at the last second, I had had the shell on the Cedar and she had, she just took a ball from the, from the hotel.
And, um, we said, we didn’t know, we just did it. And he said, you have all the elements of a church. It was this, there was a smoke, uh, what we call incense. And then there was the water, uh, for like a baptism. And, uh, we didn’t even think of it that way. We just, we just did it. But that whole experience is, I mean, I, I, I remember hearing the people talk and it was like very deep and very moving and very powerful. Um, and, um, I knew that we were doing the right thing, but I didn’t know what we were going to do before we did it. And that’s has always stuck with me. Like whenever, you know, my sponsees would say, well, somebody who’s sponsoring, other people would say, I’m supposed to go talk to this new new person. And they want me to be the sponsor, but I don’t know what, what should I say to them? I said, don’t, don’t plan on it. Just, just go up and show up. You’ll figure it out when, when they start talking, you’ll know what that, what to say. That’s right. Has always worked for me. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, you know, the answer is in the stillness, right? Like that’s what I believe that you have everything you could ever need to know inside you, if you’re just brave enough to go in and look for it, you know? So
Yeah. I like that- answer’s in the stillness.
Let me ask you, as we kind of ramp down towards the end of the episode, I, I realized when you and I were sitting together that I have such a lack of knowledge around, um, uh, well, I mean, native American culture in general, but like, especially what interests me at this point in my life is native American spirituality. And so, um, I’m gonna, I’m going to ask a question and you may not be prepared to answer this, so please feel free. Uh, but do you have any resources that you might recommend if there is a listener who’s interested in learning more about, uh, understanding that there are dozens and dozens and dozens of different, uh, perspectives within just the American native American spirituality. Right. But do you have any resources that you’d recommend for people who want to learn more about some of those unique journeys?
Yeah. I get asked this question from time to time. And, um, my response is that wherever you are, whoever is hearing this, as we’re talking on this podcast, wherever you are, there is a resource. Um, and if your heart is, I don’t want to say true or sure, I’m sure it is, but if it’s a really meant for you to be, you will find what you need to find. You know, the old teacher, I mean, the old thing is like, when this, um, the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And that’s basically how it works. Uh, every, you know, tribe, uh, different parts of the country are different. Yeah. And, uh, if you’re meant to, if you see someone someplace who looks native and you feel drawn to them, just go up to them and introduce yourself, say hello, and just become friends with them.
And then listen, get to know them. Don’t jump in first and say, well, I wouldn’t learn about native spirituality because, you know, there’s a lot of what we call, um, want to be Indians and a new H Indians, which we get, it’s a big turnoff. So, so if you’re real sincere about it, then get to know one-on-one a person. And I would say pray first, because once you put it into the universe, uh, the universe will respond. It’ll connect you with the right person that you’re meant to be taught by the things you need to know. And, um, because I mean, there’s all kinds of, I mean, you can go and find books on native American spirituality. I mean, go on Amazon and do that, but it’s all words. And it’s more than just words or knowledge it’s experience. It’s, it’s a one-on-one experience with other human beings. That’s what you’re really asking is for that connection to something you feel drawn to. I, I, I meet people all the time. We ever felt drawn to native American culture. And, um, I watched him, I watched him actually, you know, go and go to a powwow, go to a sweat lodge, go to Sundance, make friends with other native people. And, uh, they achieve what they want to achieve. There’s a lot of work to be done. W w Greg gladly have you, if your heart is in the right place. Yeah. That’s very rich. Good. Thank you, Marlon. I’m so grateful that you, uh, uh, came and shared some of your experiences with us today and, and opened open the, just open the book of Marlon up a little bit for us to read a few lines and yeah. And, and I’ll tell you, uh, if any listeners have any questions, just email them to me, Jo****@****************ng.com and I can get them to Marlon and I can get you an answer. And, uh, yeah. So with that model that I just want to again, say, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 3 00:46:44 I will say, uh, I don’t know if it’s jumping over you, but, um, I’m on Facebook. So Marlon Fixico just do a search for Marlon fix. You’ll find me. I’ve been on there for many, many years. Okay,
Speaker 2 00:46:59 Perfect. I will link that on the podcast notes then for anyone who opens their app and sees that perfect. All right, my friend, well enjoy the rest of your day. I’m sending you so much love and might. And, uh, you know, as always everyone remember to be good to each other and aim your light, take care. You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Jo****@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember aim your light.

For similarly themed content, try Whose Expectations Are You Trying to Meet? and How the 12 Steps Can Help Anyone Heal and Grow.

Visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com for more information, or email host Johnny Guidry at jo****@****************ng.com

Automatic transcript follows. Please excuse any speech recognition errors from the transcription software.

Hello everybody. I hope you are having an amazing day today. Welcome to another episode of refractive podcast. Today’s episode is all about learning to use your intuition over the past couple of years, that I’ve been on this pretty intense spiritual journey. Intuition has become such a central part of my growth learning to understand what my intuition is, what my intuition is not and learning to find the faith and the courage to do what my intuition tells me to do has been a painful, but extraordinarily rewarding, um, part of my growth journey. And it has been what unlocks chapter after chapter of incredible life. For me today, I live a life that is fairly fringe. I would say, I don’t have a traditional job. I don’t have a traditional living arrangement. I don’t have traditional relationships per se. Um, and I have to say, I don’t necessarily aspire to those things while that status, that job, that relationship was such a driving factor for me, for decades of my life today, I recognize that a lot of the striving, a lot of the painful wanting that I was experiencing was a result of feeling inadequate and needing to be soothed.
And there’s certainly nothing wrong with needing to be soothed. But what I can say is that the decades of dedicating my life to getting the soothing that I felt I needed, it had dire consequences for my wellbeing on the best side of the continuum. It created a life that was unsatisfying and unfulfilling, a life that looked really good, but a life that felt empty and frustrating and lonely and confusing, confusing, because it seemed like I had everything I needed.
It seemed like I had everything I could want. And yet things still felt lukewarm on a good day, lukewarm on a good day, never did I get that feeling of warm nourishing satisfaction for more than a few minutes at a time. So learning to tap into my intuition to understand what’s wrong. What am I missing? What perspective am I not grasping right now? Why am I dedicating myself to efforts that are not yielding results? What do I even want? What matters to me? Do I even know what truly matters? You know, digging into all of these aspects of my being took a willingness to listen, to intuition, to discern what might be my ego chattering away and what might be true, inner, loving guidance from my highest place. And then finding the faith, finding the courage. Once I had discerned, what parts of this messaging I received were wholesome and loving.
And what parts of the messaging I received were coming from my fear based ego, uh, having the faith and the courage to actually do those things, even when they didn’t look like what the world told me would be a successful life. Even when the idea of doing them was terrifying and felt crazy, felt delusional by societal standards. It was eventually arriving at that place of faith and courage to do things that seemed unconventional. And again, fringe, even that allowed me to find freedom, freedom from the cage of ego that I lived in and that I still live in. Let’s be clear. I am not free of ego it, uh, but the door is open now and I can walk in and out of that cage, as often as I am willing to, and over time, it gets better and better and better today. I am not bogged down by fears of money today. I am not bogged down by fears of an unstable future. And the irony is that I have almost nothing.
I gave away almost everything I owned. I cashed out every financial tool I had. Um, and yet week after week, month after month clients find me money finds me, love finds me shelter. That is far beyond what I could have afforded. Even in my top earning, uh, period that finds me, um, vehicles find me, travel finds me, relationships, find me. And all of that is because I’m willing to say, I don’t know what this is. I don’t have access to see tomorrow, but at this moment it feels right to do X, Y, Z, and I do it and things flow. And it is this life of flow that feels peaceful and serene. So let’s talk about the actual logistics of accessing and developing an ability and a willingness to look at your intuition and, uh, apply some discernment and do what it says. First of all, intuition is our natural state babies know which people they like to be around and which people they don’t like to be around. Babies that have almost no life experience, almost no education from social interactions and things. They still know. I don’t want to be held by this person.
I don’t like what I’m feeling from this situation. They are unencumbered by societal pressures that say, wait, wait, wait, control your emotions, control your reactions and do it anyway. Even if it doesn’t feel good, right? So babies don’t have that, that prison yet. They have not yet been encouraged to disregard their intuitive guidance. Also babies live in the ever present. Now babies do not live in fear for the future. They do not live in regret for the past. And intuition is loud and clear in the ever present. Now, in fact, I can’t think of a situation where I would be able to access my intuition in the past or in the future when putting my mind in the past or putting my mind in the future, the only time I can access my intuition is when I feel into what’s happened in this moment, I allow all of my nerves to tell me what they’re feeling physically.
I feel into what is happening with the energy in my body. And I ask myself, what’s going on right now? That’s where my intuition lifts. Now over time as we go from babies to toddlers, to children, we are taught for various practical reasons, right? Like I am not saying that society is garbage and that, uh, all societal are, um, you know, are invalid. That’s not at all what I’m saying. We are taught for very practical reasons that, uh, no, it’s not good to use the bathroom right now when you to wait a little bit. No, we don’t have access to food right now. So just like, you know, dampen down your, uh, you know, your hunger signals for a few minutes because we’re not going to eat yet. No, you know, this person, I don’t really like this person’s energy, but it’s my teacher. It’s my neighbor.
It’s my dad. It’s my mom. It’s my brother. And I kind of have to be around this person. So I just need to learn to deal with the fact that I’m around someone I don’t like being with. Right? So we learn how to say yes, I don’t like what’s happening, but I am going to do it anyway. I am going to go through it anyway for practice logistical reasons of living in a society. And so the counterpoint to that is that when we are talking to not choose who’s to follow what our intuition tells us to do, and instead choose to follow what our mental logic tells us to do. Intuition becomes more and more difficult to here. It fades into the background and it’s no longer what we’re paying attention to when we’re a baby in our crib living only in the now it was nothing but intuition. But when we get to kindergarten and we have authority, figures and structures to fit into the intuition becomes quiet.
Speaker 1 00:11:48 And we, you are not able to grasp at that age. Well, maybe that’s not true. Maybe we are able to grasp, and we just don’t make that a priority. I don’t have anything to say on that, but we do not apply a system of balance between honoring our intuitive guidance and honoring the societal needs and systems that are around us. What we do is we push the intuition away and we say yes to the societal structures. And eventually we forget to hear what the intuition is telling us. Now, the intuition never stops. You know, the intuitive, nudges and guidance that we get never go away. They never stop. We just begin to let them fade into the background to a point where we don’t notice them. They become white noise. Now, sometimes a situation in life is so serious that our intuition leaps to the foreground.
Speaker 1 00:12:54 And we know, you know, don’t walk down this alley right now. Don’t say what it is you want to say to this person right now, it’s going to cause trouble. Don’t do XYZ that you were planning to do because it’s going to be harmful. So sometimes that intuition is able to leap with force into the foreground. But for the most part, it becomes white noise behind us. And we no longer listen to, or try to discern what’s happening with our intuitive guidance. The way I like to think about it. It’s like when we first get a car with satellite radio in it, in that car am radio and FM radio still work, they still offer the same exact quality that they offered yesterday. The same quality of entertainment, the same quality of content, the content that we were grateful to have before we used it, uh, there was no way that we were getting in the car without putting on our favorite radio station.
Speaker 1 00:13:57 And it was a natural part of the driving experience. Now, once we got satellite radio months and months, and months and months go by and we have not listened to am or FM radio. And over time, we aren’t sure what the good channels are anymore. We aren’t sure who the DJs are or who the talk radio personalities are anymore. We find it awkward and inefficient to even consider going into am or FM radio. We find it annoying. We find it old-fashioned. We find it impractical because with satellite radio, everything seems to be so much simpler. And so we forget how to really appreciate and enjoy the AMFM radio. That was such an important part of our life before. And so this is how it is with our intuition. We’re born listening to this AMFM radio understanding. We’re all the amazing stations are knowing who our favorite DJs and announcers and talk radio personalities are, you know, fluent and able to adjust that dial left and right to get to where we need to, to go.
Speaker 1 00:15:17 Uh, but then we move to the more sleek, sexy version of satellite radio. And we forget how to really use AMFM. Now the day that we choose not to pay for the subscription to satellite radio AMFM is still there. It still works. We know how to use it. We just need to get used to it again. We need to explore tune in and pay attention to what’s happening. And then all of the sudden we can go back and realize that while satellite radio is amazing am and FM radio are amazing too. And they still work just as sharply as they always have before. That’s how I like to think about it. So there are a couple of steps that I recommend based on my own journey, learning to tune into my intuition. Uh, so there are a couple of steps I recommend to you. If you feel you may have backed away from honoring your intuition and you may have forgotten somewhat how to hear and interpret what’s happening in your intuitive guidance. So let’s kick off with that. The first step is to ask for help, ask for help from God, your higher self, your spirit guides, your ancestors. It doesn’t matter, but send your intention out to the wider universe and say, I would love to get back in touch with my intuition. And I would love any guidance from my highest loving self, any guidance from the God of my understanding, any guidance from my spirit guides, my ancestors, whatever your belief system is. It doesn’t matter.
Speaker 1 00:17:16 Even if you are an atheist, ask for, ask the universe, ask the universe, you see that animals and babies follow their intuition effortlessly. Well, you are an animal and you were a baby. You are able to access that intuition. So just ask nature, ask earth, ask the universe for help. What does that even look like? It doesn’t matter. Just say it, just say and believe it. But you have to know, you have to know and have faith that you will get that help. You will get that guidance. Whether that guidance is coming from you, your inner knowing whether that guidance is coming from your concept of God, it doesn’t matter. Whatever feels right to you is perfect. The next step about this is understanding what faith is because you are sending out, you are sending out energy to the people around you. Why do babies not like certain people because we are all radiating out energy.
Speaker 1 00:18:33 And that energy feels different ways to different people. And so you are radiating out energy. Whether you know it, whether you want to or not, it doesn’t matter. Right? So I say, I am choosing to radiate out a certain type of energy. I am choosing to radiate out an energy that is in flow with the universe because that’s what intuition is about. I am choosing to radiate out a frequency of energy that is in flow rather than a frequency of energy. That is a block that is unmovable. That is stubborn. When you do that, the universe responds to you. The universe responds with love and compassion. And again, there is no space for argument here along religious or belief guidelines. It does not matter. It works just as well for atheist, as it does for Orthodox religious people. You get to decide your conception of how you relate to the universe.
Speaker 1 00:19:41 And it works no matter what faith does not mean you are comfortable with your beliefs. So let’s talk about that for a second. Faith doesn’t mean you believe a hundred percent all the time. If that were the case, it wouldn’t take faith. Faith is feeling the discomfort of your lack of knowing yet having enough reassurance to walk forward. Anyway. So for me, in my past, when my intuition told me to move into a semi nomadic lifestyle for this period of my life, that is extraordinarily uncomfortable for me, that is extraordinarily uncomfortable for me. It does. I recognize how it might look to the people around me who love me. I recognize the potential complications of a lifestyle like this. I recognize the financial limitations that I step into in a lifestyle like this. Um, but my faith says, even though I’m uncomfortable with it, even though I can’t lay out on a flip chart for you, exactly why it’s the right thing for me to do. It feels like what I’m being pulled towards. And that is a enough encouragement for me to do it, even if it feels uncomfortable. Okay. So when I say that tapping into your intuition requires faith. It doesn’t mean you can’t be skeptical, right? Faith is not the absence of skepticism. Faith is the willingness to come down on the side of your intuition, despite your skepticism.
Speaker 1 00:21:50 Now this episode is not about growing faith, so I won’t spend much more time on that. But if you are curious on how to grow faith, the simple, easy, no nonsense way to grow faith is to act as if you had faith act as if you had faith. And then after it’s all said and done, look back and did your faith serve you? Or was it misplaced? And as you come to see that your faith you’re acting as if you had faith served you and brought you to wonderful places, you will become more and more confident in taking the leaps that your intuition and your inner guidance asks you to take.
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Now, the next important part of learning to tap into your intuition is building the muscle of stillness. When I say building the muscle of stillness, I’m not just talking about meditation. Now, let me tell you, meditation is the number one thing you can do to increase your spiritual strength. It is the number one thing you can do to grow. And it is the number one thing you can do to develop a closer relationship to your intuition. So, uh, now there’s lots of resources on meditation. I’m not going to go into that. Um, but what I want to talk about today is that if you find sitting in silence to be prohibitively complicated or difficult for you, I’m not even going to go there. Let’s not focus on that. You can work on that over time. Here are other ways for you to build the muscle of stillness, Eckhart, totally who, if you aren’t familiar with .
Speaker 1 00:23:53 Um, I certainly recommend that you take a look at some of books, like the power of now, he recommends an exercise of, as you sit, still simply feel, feel your fingers from the inside and feel that slight, slight, slight sense of tingling in your fingers. You may need to close your eyes to block out other sensory input and it, you may need to breathe quietly and it may take a minute or two or three for you to get there. But if you sit there and you truly apply your effort to feel the tingling in your fingers, you will eventually feel it. So what is that tingling? Who cares? I don’t have an opinion on that. Is it the blood flowing through your veins and capillaries and maybe is it energy, coursing, back and forth? Well, I mean, technically blood flowing is energy. So yeah, I guess it is what it is, doesn’t matter, but it is a very powerful exercise to get into the stillness because in order for you to feel I’m doing it right now, so that’s why my eyes are closed.
Speaker 1 00:25:16 But if you, uh, in order for you to feel the tingling in your fingers, you need to be still, you need to not be paying attention to other things happening around you and simply place your energy and your intention into feeling what’s happening inside your hand. Now, once you’re able to do it, rather simply in one hand, try to do it in multiple parts of your body. Start with your other hand and feel for the energy tingling in both hands. Then maybe try your shoulders or try other parts of your body. And over time, you’ll be able to get to a point where eyes open or eyes closed. You can feel the tingling in your entire body, from the top of your scalp to your toenails. You can feel the tingling everywhere at once in your body. It is a very, very nice way to get into the stillness.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 If you find simply sitting in silence to be difficult, because you’re applying your effort and your energy to experience something, and it has a similar effect as silent meditation. So that’s one recommendation. I have, uh, it got to the point where I did it so often that I, while having a conversation could simply focus on my knee and feel it tingle or focus on my toe and feel it tingle or focus on my lower back or the top of my scalp and feel it tingle. And, uh, and that became identifying that tingle in targeted places became an important part of my visualization meditations. And it really enhanced a lot of my silent meditations for moving energy throughout my body.
Speaker 1 00:27:15 Another way to move into the stillness is, as you’re sitting here, find places you are clenching, find places where your muscles are tight. So obviously there are big muscles like your shoulders and neck, where it’s pretty easy to tell if you are carrying some tension there, but there are some hidden places where clenching often happens. For example, the top of your scalp. Now it’s so funny because it’s hard to believe that I’m clenching the top of my scalp all the time. But if I ask myself, is there a way to relax my scalp now more than it is? Wow. Like inevitably you can feel, I can feel the whole skin of my scalp relax. When I choose to do it. My forehead, my cheeks, my jaw, my lips. If you just, just ask yourself, am I carrying any tension in my lips? Can I Le can I let them melt like butter or like clay?
Speaker 1 00:28:32 Can I just let my lips just, just let go of them and let them hang there. You can feel how much you’ve been controlling these facial muscles. So going spot by spot through your head and releasing the tension of muscle group after muscle group is a great way to get into the stillness. Also the pelvic region. So your sex muscles and your anus and your paraniem and all of these there’s. I personally have a lot of tension that I carry from my abdominal muscles down. And so when I am able to ask myself, am I clenching anything in my pelvic region? I, I can just stop it. I can like release the muscles and I’m in the stillness for a few seconds. So even though this is only for a few seconds at a time, these, this is building the muscle of going into the inside of you.
Speaker 1 00:29:43 And if you go body part by body part, and look for clenching intention in all the parts of your body, by the time you finish that you’ve been meditating for like five or 10 minutes, just by going from region to region of your body, proactively releasing muscle tension. So this is a really amazing way of developing the muscle of going into the stillness. Another way of developing this is through journaling. Now, journaling is extremely powerful for me when I journal, I oftentimes I sweat because there’s a lot happening. I’m really accessing powerful emotions inside of me when I’m choosing to journal. So for me, it’s so powerful. I don’t like doing it because it’s an intense experience. Uh, and that’s why I don’t do it as often as I could. But journaling has an amazing ability to get inside your stillness. So there’s a couple of ways that I like to recommend people to use journaling as a form of stillness, right?
Speaker 1 00:30:50 A question that you would like insight towards and answer your question. So the question might be, why do I feel so uncomfortable with this coworker around? And you just write, you just write, if you don’t know what to write, keep repeating the last sentence, just write the last sentence over and over and over as many times as it takes for you to have something else to write. And you just keep writing, set a timer, 10 minutes is great, right? Set a timer and just write out freeform exactly what your inner wisdom feels and thinks about that. This is you getting in touch with your stillness inside, with your higher self, with your most loving center of wisdom. Now, once you’re able to go into the stillness and feel for intuition, it works the same way as journaling. You simply go into the stillness and you ask what feels right about this question.
Speaker 1 00:32:05 Should I move? Is it time for me to move on in this relationship? Am I in the right type of work? Is it fair? How I reacted in that, uh, conversation with so-and-so, you know, you just go into the stillness, maybe you have felt for the tingling in your body, or maybe you felt for tense muscles and you’ve released them. And you just say, what should I do about that? And you just sit there. Now, the trick is to actually listen for what pops up. I personally don’t hear verbal words. I don’t hear like words being spoken inside my head. I just get ideas. I get concepts that rise up. And so maybe you have a notepad where you can jot them down, or maybe you just remember them, but once you have these concepts, you’re not done because we as human beings with ego, with self-will in this situation, we have the ability to distort our intuition.
Speaker 1 00:33:28 We have stepped on top of our intuition for so long that it becomes extremely difficult to know, is this my highest sense of loving wisdom that is guiding me? Or is this my ego? So the next step, maybe the most important part of accessing your intuition is learning to do discern applying discernment. So discernment is defined as the ability to perceive, to recognize or to judge well, to perceive, to recognize or to judge. Well, there’s a friend of mine who, uh, he’s one of my spiritual partners. Um, and I’ll talk about it, spiritual partners in just a moment, but, uh, one of my spiritual partner spend several hours of meditation a day. Yeah. Now that is not at all what I’m encouraging you guys to do. That’s just his path for him. But, uh, through this meditation, he has arrived at a belief system for himself that in this life, the great lesson of this life on earth is learning to discern. You know, a lot of us are quick to say that, oh, well, the great lesson of life on earth is love, is unconditional love. And what he said was that through his inner seeking through his intuition, through his, um, um, journey of looking for inner wisdom and guidance, that the message he received was that no, the true journey of earth is learning to discern. It is not learning to love unconditionally because all there is is unconditional love.
Speaker 1 00:35:17 The challenge is discerning to choose the path of love, despite the influence of ego and fear. So anyway, so discernment is a really important part of the intuition process process. And so here’s the three steps that I recommend for discerning. If some sort of idea, concept message guidance you’ve received in the stillness is your true intuition. Or if it is ego, number one, does it feel right? Right. Does it feel right? Feel right? Does not mean feel good? Does it feel right? Does it feel correct? Does it feel like it is, uh, it’s it’s, it’s good for me, right? Like it it’s correct for me, number two, will this cause harm because your most loving source of intuitive wisdom would never, would never guide you to hurt yourself or others. There is a difference between setting a boundary and hurting, telling someone I can’t be with you is not harming that person quitting a job where everyone is short-staffed is not harming a person, right.
Speaker 1 00:36:50 There’s a big difference. Harm involves selfishness and malice. It involves me seeing myself as superior and therefore it is okay for me to step on you. You need to establish a boundary for my own intuitive guidance. For my own wellness is not an attack on another person. And that is not causing harm, even if they are upset by it. Right. So does it truly caused harm? Is this an instance of me hurting another person for my benefit, or is this an instance of me hurting myself for some secret ego weirdness the third step? Right. So does it feel right? Does it calm? Does it cause harm? Does it strengthen my ego? I had a situation where, um, I very, very much wanted a luxury winter coat. I spent the, I spent the winter in Maine last year and I have a winter coat. My sister gave it to me, to me.
Speaker 1 00:38:02 It’s really lovely and it’s very warm and it’s what I used, but I definitely wanted to have one of these $1,000 super luxury winter. And I was telling myself that there is nothing egoistically wrong with reveling in beauty and reveling in sensory experiences and appreciating the texture of a, of a fabric or a textile in slipping on a coat and just delighted by the joy of the sensory experience. And that’s true. That is true. Uh, and so, because I was using that angle of this situation, I really focused on getting this luxury coat. Um, and I tried to discern, I really did try to discern whether this was my ego talking me, wanting to feel special, me wanting to have some sort of status me, wanting to feel important as I wore it, me wanting to feel comforted by the implication of having a thousand dollar coat.
Speaker 1 00:39:14 Um, but what I forgot to ask is, is this going to boost my ego? And the fact was that coat would have boosted my ego. And so at the end of the day, um, even though there is nothing wrong with having luxuriant physical experiences for me, my motive was distorted. It was distorted. And it took a lot of discernment for me to get to the root of that. So once again, the three steps of discernment, does it feel right to you? Does it need to feel right to someone else? Does it feel right to you? Does it cause harm to you or to another? And does it, is it boosting your ego? If those three answers can be satisfactorily, uh, decided then your intuitive guidance is safe. And even if it’s scary, jump, jump.
Speaker 1 00:40:17 Now when I get into it guidance, I always liked to look for synchronicities that are encouraging. So if you’re not familiar with what a synchronicity is, look it up. I won’t go into the definitions and things like that here today, just for the sake of time. But I look for little signs as I move throughout the world. Maybe I pass a store with a word in the name of the store. That is exactly a word from what my intuitive guidance told me to do. Maybe someone is talking to me on a zoom meeting and they use that exact phrase. Maybe another friend calls me up and says, I don’t know what to do about this situation. And by the end of the conversation, they arrive at the same solution as what my intuition was telling me to do about something else. So I look for these overlaps, these what some people might call coincidence as I call them synchronicities signs from the universe signs, from my concept of a higher power or some sort of guidance that say yes, yes, feel comforted and take the leap.
Speaker 1 00:41:30 Another way is to ask for a spiritual partner’s perspective. I told you earlier that we would talk about spiritual partners. And for me, a spiritual partner is someone in my life whose spiritual journey I respect and trust. Respect is not the right word. I respect the spiritual journeys of everyone. I respect the spiritual journeys of, uh, of people who are causing a great deal of pain in other people’s lives today. Um, but, um, a spiritual partner is someone whose spiritual path feels more or less parallel to my own and whose judgment and discernment I trust. And so, so, uh, you know, that may or may not be someone in your family. Uh, for me, most of my spiritual partners are recent additions to my life. There’s people. There are people who, spiritual paths I have found to be comforting and inspiring. And yeah, I believe I understand how they make decisions and therefore I trust their guidance.
Speaker 1 00:42:38 And so, uh, it’s always a good idea to build up a little roster of spiritual partners. I call them, I tell them, you are now someone I consider to be a spiritual partner. And if you see me behave, even in a way that is not in line with my highest good, I hope you will tell me because I expect my spiritual partners to help me grow spiritually, you know? And so using their advice is an important part of that relationship. So once you’ve done all of this and I’ll run through it one more time, you are, um, asking for guidance from your concept of God, your, your highest self, your team of guidance, the universe, nature, mother earth, whatever it is you’re asking for help with your intuition. And you expect to get it. Number two, build the muscle of stillness. Meditation is amazing, but there are other ways to journaling feeling for the tingle in your body, you know, feel for clenching of muscles, intention, and release it area by area.
Speaker 1 00:43:53 Um, uh, you know, asking yourself the answers. Once you get into the stillness, simply saying, what should I do about this? What should I do about this? Be aware that your, your mind, your monkey brain is going to answer you right away. Oh, well, you should go do this. And maybe that is valid, but keep listening. What else? What else, what else listen for that intuitive guidance to come. And once you have collected, I did all the guidance, all the different options that are popped into your mind, it’s time to discern discernment means. Does it feel right? Does it cause harm? And is it boosting my ego? Once you have made a decision, keep a lookout for synchronicities. They truly make me feel loved and cared for by the universe, by my higher power. When I, when I see them, sometimes I’ll see my initials on a license plate.
Speaker 1 00:44:56 Sometimes I’ll see, uh, you know, I’ll pass a book in a bookstore. And the title of the book relates exactly to what I was thinking about. You know, and these are just little things. I’m not saying that this is my God telling me to do something. I’m just saying that they are little gentle nudges of love. That make me feel like I’m not alone out there. Um, you know, also, uh, never hesitate to ask a spiritual partner for their insights. You don’t need to follow it. Um, but if you trust this person’s path, then they likely have some good things to share with you. When all of that is done, jump, take the leap, take the leap, experience, the joy, the exhilaration, and the adventure of living by your intuition. It is the key to richness. It is the key to not being bogged down by the tragedy of the world.
Speaker 1 00:45:52 It is the key to being free. Despite everyone else being in a fearful panic, living by intuition, frees you from those conditions. It is, it might be the biggest gift that I have received so far on my journey. And I wanted to share it with you. So thank you everyone so much for joining me today. My name is Johnny G with refractive podcast. I am a spiritual coach and a career coach based out of Washington, DC. I’m a public speaker and a facilitator, and I help people get unstuck, drop their outdated limiting beliefs and move into an authentically empowered life. That feels red hot. If I can be of service to you, or if you just have questions, please reach out to me. You can email **@******************************ng.com. I should go out today and experience the world. As you find people around you who are having different levels of joy, some high and some low, remember we are all suffering out there. We are all damaged individuals trying to do our very best. So be good to each other.
Speaker 0 00:47:12 Take care. .

To learn more about Rebecca and her work, visit www.HealWithHypnosis.com.

For similarly themed episodes, try: Surrender to Greatness or Making Peace with Our Dark Side. Visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com or www.RefractivePodcast.com for more info.

Episode transcript follows, please excuse any misinterpretations by the automatic software.

For similarly themed content, try “Guided Meditation: Ocean Stillness.” Visit www.refractivepodcast.com for more information and content. Email johnny@refractivecoaching with any questions or feedback.

Transcript follows- please excuse any misinterpretations by the automatic software.

Hello everyone. And welcome to a special meditation episode of refractive podcast. Today, we’re going to be doing a guided meditation that has as its main objective to just soak you in the love that exists all around you. One of the most beautiful lessons we can experience is the realization that there is only love. Even when we perceive hate wrath, anger, suffering, pain, abuse, there is nothing but love in the world. And when we’re able to tap into the implications of that, we gain a new freedom and a new way of soaring through life. With a perspective that changes the way we interact with the world, today’s visualization will have us receive from the people that we’re around every day from grocery store clerks, to school librarians, to people, you have a very close, intimate, loving relationship with. We are going to bring those individuals into our meditation, and we are going to receive back the love that we’ve given in this visualization.
You may even find people that appear to you that you wouldn’t expect to be a part of it. But the truth is that we make ripples in life. And the ripples of love that circle around us, go out and spread far and wide. And we may not even realize how many people we touch or the depth of what a simple act of kindness can carry to another person. So with that, I want to encourage you to get comfortable, take a breath and make sure that you’re in a place where you won’t have distractions. And you can just be with yourself for a few moments. If you need to pause and change locations, to sit in your favorite, comfortable spot, do so. If you prefer to lie down, you can do that too. Um, just do whatever feels right.
Speaker 0 00:02:36 Let’s go breathe in deeply and breathe out. Deeply. Notice the shape that your torso makes. As you take a deep breath in, you can feel your rib cage expanding on top of your lungs. Notice the shape your body makes as you let go of all that air. Kind of like a balloon with a slow leak, gently notice your body filling, then releasing with air as you breath. See if you can build in just a moment or two in between your in breath, in your out-breath, just hold it for just a moment. No stress, no pressure, just a lovely zero space where the breath stays, where it is, and then let it go with each breath as your torso rises and falls.
Speaker 0 00:04:11 I wonder if there might also be a gentle ball of light inside your torso. And as you breathe in, you can notice that the light gets just a bit brighter. The more oxygen you pull into your lungs. And as you breathe out, you can see the light gently fade back to its original level. Take some breaths now on your own and notice the sensations of your torso. Feel your arms and your legs. Get just a little bit heavier and enjoy the beauty of that ball of light. As it grows brighter and go softer as you continue to breathe.
Speaker 0 00:05:48 If there are any noises that you hear from inside your space, outside your space, just invite into the meditation. Meditating is so much simpler than we believe it to be. It’s just observing. So welcome any noise that comes into your space. It deserves to be here. It belongs okay. As you breathe deeply notice if you are holding any effort or tension in your neck or your shoulders, if you feel yourself, lifting your shoulders up, just let it go. If you were to faint right now, what would happen to your shoulders? What would happen to your arms? Let’s try that.
Speaker 0 00:06:59 There’s no need to hold your legs in a particular straight position at a 90 degree angle, just let your body sink as has been the case in every moment of your life who are being supported, the ground is supporting you. Your furniture is supporting you. The earth is supporting you. There’s no work you need to do. Just let go and noticed that like glow just a bit brighter as you breathe in and just a bit softer as you breathe out. A lot of times we can unknowingly carry some pressure in our jaw sense into your jaw area. If there’s anything that’s being clenched, just let it go.
Speaker 0 00:08:10 What would happen to your jaw? If you fainted, there can also be some tension around the sinus area around the cheeks. See if you can just let your muscles, your bones, your skin, and your face. Just be there without being held up by you. Almost like a stuffed animal. That’s been sat on the bed and it just kind of leans forward a little bit. Continue to breathe. Notice your body. Notice the light. Notice the torso check for your scalp and your ears. A lot of times we position the skin and muscles around our scalp in a particular way. See if you can let that go.
Speaker 0 00:09:31 And with this, let’s take another three or four breaths, just reveling in this moment of relaxation and letting go. And with your mind’s eye, can you notice that your eyelids are turning that beautiful reddish orange color that you see when you close your eyes in the sun, feel for chest a gentle warmth of the sun on your skin. And notice that you’re outside, you’re outside in such a beautiful landscape. There are some ferry, very small Hills around, and you find yourself on a path, take a step forward. And as your foot touches the ground through your comfortable shoes, you can feel that there’s just a tiny bit of dust and gravel and dirt underneath your feet.
Speaker 0 00:11:26 And step after step, you appreciate being on this very gentle path. There’s vibrant green grass on both sides of you and some trees out along the horizon. It’s the time of day where the sky and the light is that rich golden color. It’s the golden hour. Everything is so beautiful in the golden hour. And as you walk down this path, you just can’t believe how perfect it feels a warm but gentle temperature. You can feel a warm, nurturing breeze past your skin, maybe the skin of your shins, or just gently rifle through your hair. And there is a magnificent tree up above. You can see it 40 or 50 feet out. And it looks like the leaves of the tree are catching the light and, and almost sparkling a little bit.
Speaker 0 00:12:49 You can see that the trunk of the tree is very wide and the branches of the tree spread out for a significant distance and create a lovely canopy. You can tell by the rich green of the leaves that the tree is very healthy and it feels like it might be nice to walk towards the tree and check it out. So you leave the path and you step onto the grass and you immediately recognize the different texture beneath your shoes. You can feel the earth give way just a tiny bit. Maybe you can smell the smell of plants or grass around you. There’s a certain smell when the warm sun covers plant life. I wonder if you can smell it.
Speaker 0 00:13:55 Have we get closer to the tree and believes the branches dip fairly low to the ground? So you can see some of the leaves very easily at eye level. And you notice that you were correct. There is something that catches the light and reflects it on the leaves. As you approach. You notice that at the end of each branch, there seems to be a beautiful gemstone. And as you look from branch to branch, every imaginable color of gemstone is found on this tree. It’s such a gift to be able to walk up and see this amazing putable experience of where did the gemstones come from, who cares? It’s just beautiful and it’s there for you to enjoy.
Speaker 0 00:15:05 So you reach your hand out and there’s this amazing rich blue, this beautiful rich Sapphire gemstone, and it catches your eye and you’re reached towards it. And you notice that all of a sudden in the gemstone fairy, clearly you see the image of someone who loves you very much. You can see them looking at you and smiling. You know, the look, whoever it is, it’s someone that you know, and who loves you. And you can see them just beaming out gratitude and love for the role you’ve played. You see that image of them in the blue stone, and you’re overwhelmed your heart swells with this rich emotion. As you consider the lovely interactions that you’ve shared with this person, the value you have for this person in your own life, and you know, immediately the depths of this person’s love for you.
Speaker 0 00:16:35 A warm wind blows through your hair, blows around your arms and your legs ruffles your clothes just a bit, but it’s not cold. It’s the perfect, warm, loving temperature. And you feel the breadth of this love wrapping around you and feeding your soul. And you know that everything is perfect. And as you turn, you see a pink gemstone and it’s catching the sun’s rays in such a beautiful way. You take a few steps over and you look at it and sure enough, as you look into that gemstone, you see the image of someone who loves you very much.
Speaker 0 00:17:37 You see someone whose life is better because of you. Someone who’s received your generosity and your affection, and this person wants so badly for you to be clear on how much they love you. You see that look in their eyes, that genuine caring, benevolent look, and they beam the full force of their love on you. You feel that beautiful, warm, nourishing, wind touch your skin. And it’s overwhelming. It’s overwhelming. Okay? Your heart can barely take it. There’s so much love. And if this is what happens with the first two gemstones, you look at, imagine what else is there?
Speaker 0 00:18:48 What would happen at the top of the tree? And you realize that in this beautiful vision, you can go anywhere you want anywhere you want. And so you gently find yourself moving up through the branches. And at the top of the tree, there is a soft Canary yellow gemstone, like a yellow diamond, just gently swaying in the breeze next to some rich green leaves. And you’re curious, who’s going to be in this gemstone whose spirit will I see? And something interesting happens. This is not a person, you know, well, but it’s a person that, you know, it’s a person that you say hello to, and that you think fondly of, but they’ve never been to your home. You’ve never been to their home. You might not even know their last name. You might not even know their first name, but they have received your Goodwill, your kindness, your love, your energy.
Speaker 0 00:20:10 And when you walk past them, they feel just a little better. And for that, they love you. Their eternal soul loves you. They might not even be aware of it in the real world, but their spirit is aware of it. And it is that spirit that wants to return the favor and enrich your experience, enrich your life and bathe you and nourishing emotion. See that person in the beautiful yellow gemstone, and just take a moment to send your heart energy to that person and receive that person’s heart energy. And you begin to have an idea of the impact you have had on the world without even trying, without even realizing it, the infinite ripples that go to the shore and bounce back and go back to the shore and bounce back again, crisscrossing other ripples all the way.
Speaker 0 00:21:33 And you were the source. You were the love that is being sent out, and that is being returned to you. It is your nature. And you connect with the idea right now that all there is is love. There is nothing but love. Even the people that you haven’t been kind to. Well, the people who haven’t paid you, the respect that you’d like, there is only love despite the painful paths that many of us walk there is only love. And so, as you move to the other side of the tree, you see a beautiful pale green Paredos stone, just a soft yellow, green crystal clear stone.
Speaker 0 00:22:50 It’s just waiting for you to appreciate it. And as you get closer, there is, there is the image of someone in this stone. And it’s not someone that you have enjoyed being with it’s someone who may not have given you the respect. You’d like, maybe it’s someone who’s made an unkind comment, but that person too is a spark of the creator, just like you. And that person too is nothing but love. And while you may not have realized it through the uncomfortable interactions, there has been only love. If there are eyes to see it. And can you see it now?
Speaker 0 00:24:06 Can you look at this person and see them as a child and see yourself as a child, just two kids playing on the playground, just two kids, giggling and playing, pretend not a care in the world and so much fun. There’s no bills or pressure. There’s no hunger or bankruptcy to worry about. It’s just two kids having the time of their life. That’s you. And that’s this person. And you see all of this playing out in this amazing soft green crystal clear stone. And you realize, you realize that there is nothing but love behind the screen of discomfort.
Speaker 0 00:25:07 There is just love. And there’s an ability within you to send that putable love energy inside of you, to the child, the hurting child within this person. Can you feel, can you see with your mind’s eye, that person sending you back that same love energy. Yeah. And we have time for one more amazing gemstone and we float around and maybe we should find a clear diamond and you see one way on the other side of the tree. And it’s just, glinting like the crystal from a chandelier. And as you go to this beautiful diamond, hanging from the branch, you see someone so happy to welcome you. And it’s someone you’ve lost. It’s someone whose time on this earth life has finished.
Speaker 0 00:26:55 And there’s so much that would have been nice to say, but we didn’t know. And we didn’t have time, but the soul knows. And there is no question of recognizing the love for each other. And you look at this face, this beloved person who has passed on and you see their essence shining out at you with the full power of their hearts capacity to love. It’s like a fire hose of love. It’s so much flowing love that it’s almost overwhelming. You almost have to catch your breath. It’s so much power. And yet that is the truth of the nature between you and this person.
Speaker 0 00:27:57 And it doesn’t matter if on this earth plane, you and this person acknowledged this verbally, or didn’t, it doesn’t matter what the terms were of your relationship. When this person passed on that’s silly earth stuff, that’s silly time-related stuff. We are in the eternal right now. And in the eternal, the argument of a day or a week or a decade is nothing but the blink of an eye. And when that blink passes, there’s only nourishing love, joy, gratitude, excitement. This is the connection that you feel as you look into this beautiful diamond and you share this holy moment with a spirit that cares so deeply for you.
Speaker 0 00:29:20 And you’ll take now just a few seconds in silence to say what you’d like to say and appreciate being so close to this person, take a few moments and justice before the warm nourishing breeze envelops. You, you can feel it in your hair and on your arms brushing past your cheek and you, and this beautiful soul embrace. It’s a tight hug. You can feel it. And for this moment, there’s no doubt that these two spirits yours and this beloved have never been apart. You’ve always been together. There is no possibility of being a part that’s just silly earth stuff.
Speaker 0 00:31:01 Ah, and you hold each other’s hands and you know, it’s time to make our way back. And so you leave this beautiful soul and this beautiful tree and start to make your way back down to the springy grass and walk down to the path that brought us here. Okay? Hm. You can feel the moisture around your eyes from the tears of joy and love that have risen to the surface. And your spirit is so full. You’re like a water balloon. That’s on the verge of bursting. You are so full of the love that has just enveloped you.
Speaker 0 00:32:00 Oh, and it’s a feeling that you can take with you through the rest of your day. Can you, as you cross paths with someone who might seem irritable or surly, I wonder if you can bring just a bit of this moment to that person. You don’t have to say anything. You don’t even have to smile. Maybe just for an instant in your mind’s eye, you holding this person’s hand under this tree and let them see all the people whose lives. They have touched all the spirits that want to share love with them. And if you just do this in your mind’s eye, their spirit knows maybe not today, maybe not in this earth life, but they know what you’re doing. They’re there with you and what greater service can there be. But showing someone how deeply they are loved.
Speaker 0 00:33:34 And as we end our visualization, we bring our attention back to our body and you can feel the weight of your back on the chair, or maybe the weight of your rear end on the chair. You can feel your feet touching the floor and you can wiggle your fingers. Maybe move the face muscles a little bit, take a big deep breath, take a deep breath as the last trace of that golden sunlight starts to leave your eyelids. And you’re back in your, in your space, safe, secure, and you just know it’s going to be an amazing day.

Find a transcript by automatic software below. Please excuse any misinterpreted words.

Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of refractive podcasts. I’m Johnny G today. I am so delighted to introduce you to a very close friend of mine from way back in the day, right? To her name is Kia Kersey, and she is a career strategist. She’s worked in that area for quite a long time. Um, she actually studied, uh, I met her back through my human resources link. In fact, her master’s is in human resources management and organizational leadership. Um, she is also certified by the Myers-Briggs company for the Myers-Briggs type indicator. And so, uh, I thought that there was some really beautiful, a wealth of knowledge to bring to the listeners today on what to do when you get to a point where you realize that your current career doesn’t fit anymore, I’ve been there. Key has been there and a lot of listeners are there right now.
Speaker 1 00:01:48 And we know that what we’re doing today doesn’t fit, but it’s terrifying to think about starting career number two, right? Because first of all, what do we even like doing? What are people going to be willing to pay us to do that makes us feel good. And is it going to meet the financial needs of our family? Is it viable? There are so many facets to consider in this decision that what happens to most people is they say, well, the career, I mean right now is not awful. I don’t really love it, but it’s it’s okay. And they don’t move because they’re too scared of all of these variables. They’re scared of the, what feels like a momentous calculation to have to get into a career that feels right. Well, I’m here to tell you that I’ve been able to shift out of a career into one that feels right. Tia has done that as well. It’s not as complicated or as difficult. It’s a big project, but it’s not possible. In fact, it’s very possible. And she has some wisdom to share with the listeners today on exactly how to do that. So before we get into all the nitty gritty, how are you doing my love?
Speaker 2 00:02:58 I’m doing Johnny. I just want to start by saying thank you so much for having me on the show today. You’re such a rock star and I’m so honored to be here. And I’m excited. I’m excited to share with our listeners today.
Speaker 1 00:03:13 Oh, I listen. I’m excited to share all the giggles and laughter with our listeners.
Speaker 2 00:03:19 Oh, a lot of we do. Uh, okay. The audience will have to bear with us because we like giggling and laughing together. So we’ll have to keep it together. We will try to keep it together for everyone. I can’t make any promises, but you know,
Speaker 1 00:03:35 In fact, I want to tell everybody I’ve told this story,
Speaker 2 00:03:38 Uh, I’m not ready, but
Speaker 1 00:03:41 I need to tell everybody how I met Kia. So,
Speaker 2 00:03:44 Um, do it, don’t embarrass don’t marriage.
Speaker 1 00:03:48 Yeah. So back in 2008, I was working for Loews hotels at the time and human
Speaker 2 00:03:55 Resources. That’s right. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:03:58 And so I got invited to come do a lecture, um, at Weidener university.
Speaker 2 00:04:05 I love the story. I do love the story. It’s I do love the story.
Speaker 1 00:04:08 Yes. So I, uh, I’m wearing, oh, I went out to Weidener university and I, uh, I did this lecture on some stuff that we did. I don’t even remember exactly the title, uh, the topic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:21 But you were, you were talking about the culture of the organization and that’s who you were. They was really like the culture. And what training was all about from the cultural standpoint? It was, it was neat. I remember. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:33 And so after the lecture was over this lady, she is tall and lean, right. She is tall and lean like a cartoon character. And she like hops up out of her seat in her business suit. Right. She is wearing business attire and she’d be like bounces over to me with all the earnestness of
Speaker 2 00:04:54 Powerful woman.
Speaker 1 00:04:55 And she likes sticks her handouts such force. And thank you so much for coming to do our lecture. I really enjoyed it. And my name is Anne. We have just been connected ever since
Speaker 2 00:05:09 That was a good, um, rendition of Kia, 2000 AI,
Speaker 1 00:05:15 Like from legally blonde, like she’s like, she’s just going to take over the world and like, nobody’s going to get in her way. And she knows, you know, she’s about to give me a perfume centered resume, you know?
Speaker 2 00:05:28 Um, I appreciate that story. That, that is true story. That’s exactly how I met. I was just like, he’s a rock star and he’s going to be my friend and guess what it worked. And you’ve been, my friend ever said, I mean, we have from taking planes to see each other, to drive it across country and see each other from Amtrak trains and see each other. We have been inseparable ever since. So love you
Speaker 1 00:05:53 Today. Uh, you just happened to have, uh, built career, uh, around helping other people with their own careers. And so I’d love to hear what you have in store for us today. Um, as far as how to help people in this moment of pivot in their life.
Speaker 2 00:06:10 Yeah. I love this topic because so many of us are either going through it or we have gone through it, as you said, at some point in our lives, but really when identifying the career, that’s the best fit for you when you’re trying to figure out what is my career passion, where is my niche? Where should I be? Um, there’s three things that I always recommend you do. Number one, discover your personality type, discover that discovering your personality type really will allow you to identify your strengths. I like to call them your super powers, super powers, because this is the thing we all have a super power. You know, if you’re, if you’re in a job right now or in a career right now, you feel like, eh, it’s okay. Or if you feel like I I’m really not, you know, doing what I want to do.
Speaker 2 00:07:01 You have not tapped into your superpower. We all have a superpower. And I so want for everyone to tap into their super power. The second thing that you really need to do is examine your core. And when I say examine your core, what are your values? Your beliefs, your lifestyle, what is it now? What do you want it to be? And the third thing is take that information, develop a SWOT analysis, a SWOT analysis, meaning your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. And I’ll go into that a little bit more, but analyzing that will really help you to move forward and make some steps that are right for your next career move.
Speaker 1 00:07:42 All right. Perfect. I love it. So, uh, all right. So step one, let’s unpack these bad boys and, uh, share with us some of the wisdom you have, uh, you’ve developed over the years around these.
Speaker 2 00:07:55 Yeah. So, you know, the first thing, your personality types. So as a certified, uh, NBTI practitioner or Myers-Briggs type indicator practitioner, I can share things from this NBTI lens. So, you know, the question is, um, you know, Y NBTI wait, let’s take a time out and stop for a second. Please stop. Let’s talk about this cup. I’m sorry, everyone. Let’s talk about this big relish cop that you put. All right. So for those of you who are not on YouTube, you have no idea what’s happening right now. Love your cop need to get one. I need to get one later,
Speaker 1 00:08:37 Literally like 20 ounces. It’s an enormous teacup. And it says relish on the rim because, you know, I relish my time with Kia Kersey. So
Speaker 2 00:08:47 I’m just pushing in this. I am relishing in this moment right now, so, okay. I’m going to try and of, okay. So personality type, right? Figure out what your personality type is. One way to do that is through a career assessment. I’m an NBTI practitioner. So I can speak from the NBTI lens, the Myers-Briggs type months. Um, so why would you use, I would say a Myers-Briggs personality inventory over all the other there’s so many you can pick and choose, um, NBTI, it’s a self-reported instrument. So that means that you select your own preferences. It’s nonjudgmental it. Doesn’t judge your personality type, um, but indicates how you prefer to approach a situation and interact with life. Um, it sorts people into, um, I guess it starts people based on their preferences. It doesn’t put you in a box and say, this is who you are, that’s your label. Right. So that’s why I like it too. And it’s also, well-researched, it’s something that is used worldwide. It’s been around a very long time and it’s the most widely used psychological assessment in the world. So that’s why you talk from that lens.
Speaker 1 00:10:00 Let’s go more into this. Let’s go more into Myers-Briggs. Cause you, you have people, uh, say all the time, oh, these are my four letters. And like, they don’t even say it’s Myers-Briggs but when you get those four letters, like, you know that it’s Myers-Briggs so what are your four letters?
Speaker 2 00:10:17 My four letters. I am an E N T J. And that just means that I am an extrovert. Um, I utilize the extrovert preference. I utilize the intuition preference. I utilize my thinking preference the most, and I utilize my judging preference the most. And I can tell you what all of those mean I
Speaker 1 00:10:40 Am. Um, I N F okay. Love it. What is F I can’t remember what F feeling. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 00:10:51 So, so you’re, I N you said, right? So you, I N F J so you’re introverted, um, you’re intuitive, meaning you are more of a visionary person, right? You’re looking at the future. Um, you are make decisions that are more in line with your feeling, with your gut, your hunch, you have a hunch about something, you make decisions based on that feeling. And then as a J you’re a person that’s, you’re your pretty organized, structured person. Um, you like to do things in an organized where you like things on your calendar, um, as opposed to just being like, I’m just going to take things as they happen. You kind of liked to ensure that you have a plan in front of you.
Speaker 1 00:11:43 You know, it’s, it’s when I first did Myers-Briggs, um, uh, it was one of the first times where I ever stopped to think that maybe I am an introvert, because I’ve always had such a big mouth. Right. I’ve always been a talker, you know, and, and everybody, I remember I worked on a big team of like 22 people in HR, and we all got our Meyers-Briggs and they were like, well, but this, how can you, you’re not, you’re, you’re, you’re E you’re. You’re not an I, and what happens is due to some of like my upbringings and coping mechanisms that I developed for myself through adolescents or whatever I have, I learned that people like people who are outgoing and warm. And so I learned to do that, but it drains me. It does not, it’s not my natural state. Um, it’s something I learned how to do to cope. And so, in reality, when I’m around a group of people for a long time, uh, it just, I feel like I’ve just been beat up, you know,
Speaker 2 00:12:55 That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense because, um, if you’re E if you utilize the extrovert preference the most, then you’re energized. That gives you energy, that it should give you energy, but knowing that it drains you. Oh, yeah. You’re a true, you’re clear. You’re clear. I write, because I, it is my assumption then that when you have really time alone to think process strategize that that’s when you get your most energy. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:13:29 You know, there was this family trip that, that, uh, that my, my siblings planned that was going to be like 12 of us going to Billy’s. And at first I was like, oh yeah, that sounds great. And then like the closer we got, and I’m like, I’m not going, I cannot
Speaker 2 00:13:44 Not be
Speaker 1 00:13:45 Like, in this tight space with 12 people for 10 days. Like, it’s just going to kill me. Like I need, you know, anyway, so that’s not really on the topic of career, but it’s on the topic of like Myers-Briggs and how accepted it is and widespread, and well-known, it is. And so, um, why does it help someone who is interested in a career pivot to, uh, do an assessment, which could be Myers-Briggs, it could be any number of other assessments that help someone understand how they tick, um, talk to me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 00:14:18 Yeah. Well, you know, when we talk about the different letters, um, and what they stand for, you gave a great example of what you were saying regarding, um, you feeling drained after giving these presentations or being around so many people. And what that means is that if a person is trying to assess their next step in their career, and they should really take a look at how they’re energized, when we talk about why my response and why look at how you’re energized, because if you find that you’re really drained after, you know, um, being around large crowds or talking with a lot of people, or in those types of situations, then maybe a sales role, um, a role where you have to be in front of people all the time, or kind of be in front of people to develop relationships, maybe not all the time, but maybe you want to think about whether or not that’s a good fit for what your preference is.
Speaker 2 00:15:24 And it doesn’t mean that you can’t do certain things, because if you want to do something, and this is a goal of yours that you have go forward, but if you’re tired at the job that you’re at, and there’s a reason why there’s a reason why you’re not feeling fulfilled and looking at those NBTI preferences will help you to figure out what your natural makeup is. For example, can you do me a favor? Do you have a pencil and a paper readily accessible to you? Do me a favor and just write your name, just write your full name. Let me know when you’re done. When you were writing your name, did you have to think about which hand you were going to write with? No. Exactly. So, uh, similarly, when you’re exercising your NBTI preferences, it’s not something that you have to think about. It’s innate and it’s natural and you are, we are our true selves when we’re doing things that come very natural to us. Right, right. So I like to look at it that way. I
Speaker 1 00:16:37 Want to, uh, you know, I want to hop in and talk about this because, you know, here’s, you know, when I work with clients who feel stuck in their lives, um, it’s not that I can’t write my name with my right hand. I can write my name with my right hand. And depending on how much effort I want to put in, I can write my name in a fairly legible way, or I could, uh, do it in a less careful way, but I can do it, but does it feel good? It doesn’t feel good. You know? And so this is a really nice corollary to, I love that, that the conversation is going this way because, um, I didn’t know. I didn’t know that being in front of people didn’t feel good to me. I didn’t know that putting myself in extroverted situations drained me, I had never stopped to investigate that.
Speaker 1 00:17:39 I knew it felt good when people responded favorably to me. And how do I get people to respond favorably to me, to go in front of people and charm them. So I was doing that. I was doing that. Um, and, and I just felt exhausted and just depleted at the end of every day. And so, as we look at what life needs to look like, whether it’s career, whether it’s the type of place I live, whether it’s, uh, you know, is my relationship working for me, whatever the case is investigating, what makes us tick is so key, because we may have made assumptions based on, uh, the societal most favorable mix of characteristics and be like, okay, well, that’s what I want. And we may have modeled an entire life around, um, situations that don’t feel good to us. That’s where I wonder why people are depressed. And we wonder why people feel angry at the world.
Speaker 2 00:18:46 That’s right. That’s right. And let me tell you, our introverts are our rock stars. Well, hello, Kevin, can I tell you, I, you know, as an extrovert, do I always think before I speak, I would like to, but sometimes I think I’m a very strategic person in what I say. I, I do think that I am very strategic in what I say, however, what I need, let me clarify, please. I can’t with that cop
Speaker 1 00:19:21 Look, I’m going to drink my tea. Yeah. I just got it.
Speaker 2 00:19:24 Send me one. I’m really actually, I’m just like, I’m jealous. This is real jealousy coming through. So you have to send me one. Okay. Or just tell me where to order it, or, um, what I want to say as far as, um, introverts really being our rock stars when I was saying was clarifying me thinking through things before I speak as an introvert. Um, I like to come to conclusions by thinking out loud. So if I was in a business meeting with a lot of people and the person leading the meeting, you know, um, was talking and I, I had a good thought about whatever that person was talking about. I would, I would outright jump in, or if the person said, what do you think about that? I would outright spit out what to my hair, or I would go through my thought process out loud, whereas an introvert would really go through their thought process in their mind and then say a polished conclusion, you know, at the end.
Speaker 2 00:20:29 Right? So that person is really taking in a lot of information. You know, the intro, the extrovert such as myself may continue talking, talking, talking to introvert is really taking all of this in and then coming to a well formulated response. I that, you know, as extroverts, sure, we come with well-formulated responses as well, but that different tactic is such a strength. And this is what I talk about when we say identifying our strengths in our superpowers, you know, extroversion versus introversion, extroversion versus introversion is how we’re energized. So we talked about how you’re energized, right? You’re energized and extroverts energizing around lots of people. An introvert is energized with that along silo time. Um, the next preference pair is sensing versus intuition. So that is how we take in information. So a person with a sensing, um, preferences, more so taking into details that are around them, right?
Speaker 2 00:21:33 So if they’re in a meeting, they’re taking in all of the detail information and they are trying to come to a conclusion more so for the nail, an immediate conclusion that we’ll be able to, um, mitigate whatever challenge the group is facing immediately or whatever challenge the project is facing immediately where the intuitive person is looking to the future of everything. They are the visionary. So they’re trying to come up with, um, their, they emit their minds immediately goes to how can we develop a process? That’s going to be last longing for the future. So an example of that be if you take your hand and put it in front of your face, a person with a sensing preference is looking at all the grooves in the lie, a person with intuitive preferences looking out in front of them. So the sensing person is looking at all the nooks and crannies. The, the intuitive person is looking out in the future. And one is missing something that the others is not missing, right. One is
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Not stronger than the other one is not better than the other. They’re not there, it’s a continuum. Right. And everyone has a certain, um, um, ratio of these two, right? Nobody, almost nobody. I mean, I don’t want to say that, but like the likelihood of you being 100% sensing and 0% intuitive is
Speaker 2 00:23:05 Like this that’s right. It is very unlikely. We all utilize both. Right. We just utilize one more than the other. So a person with a sensing preference, we’re probably do really well with something like data analysis, right. Because they are really analyzing a lots of detailed information, right. Where an intuitive person sure. They could do it, but it might be a little bit more of a challenge for them. Um, because they’re more focused on the bigger picture of things. I’m thinking worsen, it’s banking versus feelings, how we make decisions. So a person with the person with the, sorry, I’m trying, I’m trying, I’m trying, I was trying to turn off my camera. Don’t start off in here, the person with the thinking. So the person with the thinking preference is making decisions based on factual information, the person with the feeling preference is more so, like I said, making a decision based on their gut, their, you know, what is, um, what feels, right, right.
Speaker 2 00:24:27 So say if, um, two people were looking at a resume for a candidate say, uh, we were both recruiters. We were looking at a resume trying to decide if we want to bring this, this candidate on. Um, I may say, you know what? I needed a little bit more data on this candidate. Just a little bit more data. You may say, you know what, after reading through their resume, I think I really, I get a good feeling about this reason. My gut is telling me that this person, isn’t just your chat. You’re putting the patterns together and you get a gut feeling. I’m like, you’re blowing my mind right now because like, okay. So like
Speaker 1 00:25:05 I do, you know, I write resumes for clients. It’s one of the services I do. You know, one of the big focuses that I do is I say, listen, we need to control the, um, subliminal messages of your resume. How much white space is there on the page? How parallel is the formatting, right. Is there enough space between characters? Is there a, does it feel balanced? Like, does it fit? And I tell clients that by, you know, when you’re looking at 20 resumes in a row, when one is subliminally pleasant, it stands out. But so as you’re talking about like the resume example Kia, like it made me think of like, well, that’s why that’s such a focus of mine when I work with, because that I, you know, I find that that’s, I mean, obviously the content is very important, but also really recognize the significance of a well-thought out, uh, document that feels, and
Speaker 2 00:26:07 That’s just as important. And that’s a perfect example. That’s a perfect, because it’s what you’re saying and describing is just as important as the data that’s in it. But that, that’s why, you know, you’re looking through that lens, you know, is because of the preference that you have. You’re feeling preference when he comes in. I
Speaker 1 00:26:27 Would have had no idea. So I love, and then the last
Speaker 2 00:26:31 One, just, I don’t know how we’re doing on time. Cause we can talk forever. The last one I’ll be quick is judging versus perceiving. So a person with the judge listen to the podcast. I love mother good DRI I there’s a special place in my heart for mother Godrich certainly I will never forget when she had me over the house around the holidays. It was, I love mother Goodrich. Um, but it doesn’t mean judging. Judging doesn’t mean like, oh, we’re being judged today. God, is this, how does this, how does this, or your shape? What, what judging means is, um, you like a, a life that’s organized, you like to set goals, you like structure, you like making decisions that you can move on where a person with the perceiving type, uh, or perceiving preference is one who really likes to approach life as it comes.
Speaker 2 00:27:39 Right. Uh, doesn’t like to make the Bennett plans because they like to leave their schedules a little open so that there’s freedom for whatever life brings them. Right. Um, I’ll tell you something funny. So I, you know, looking at it this way, a person with a judging preference, if we had a picture of that person at their desk and they had a stack of papers next to them, they would be like pulling one paper off, finishing it, putting it to the side, pulling the next day. I mean, they’re getting things done where the person with the perceiving preference is probably like I have a lot of time to get this done. I mean, I have until next Wednesday, you know, I can get through this pile by night. That’s Wednesday. I’m going to take my time and get through the ball and they’ll get through the pile, but just a little bit more lax about flex, about their time there.
Speaker 1 00:28:34 So, so the, once you kind of have done an assessment and we’re specifically talking about the value of Myers-Briggs, but once you’ve done an assessment and you’ve kind of understood, understood what makes you tick, because again, the thing is to challenge the assumptions with an open mind, what the assumptions we’ve had about ourselves, our whole lives, because we may have been forming ourselves to someone else’s ideals and stopping to question. We may assume the fact that it didn’t feel good as an error in ourselves rather than an error in the path we’re taking. That really is someone else’s path. Right. So, yeah. So once we’ve kind of looked at the look at our superpowers and decided, okay, I don’t want to be in a job where I have to sit in my office all day, because that is draining to me to be alone too
Speaker 2 00:29:24 Much. Yeah. That’s scary. I had to, I ran out of my house this morning because I was like, I just don’t want to be by myself. So,
Speaker 1 00:29:34 And I’m not talking about me particularly. Right? Like that’s, you know, but then like, and let’s say, I don’t want a, that focuses too much on the nitty gritty. Um, I know that I really prefer high level conceptual work. Um, that feels exciting to me. Whereas like getting into the numbers or, or planning out detailed sub strategies is just draining for me. Right. So once you’ve kind of identified that we move on to step two. Now this is something where the listeners of this podcast can go ahead and roll your eyes. All of you, or all three of you listeners, uh, go ahead and roll your eyes because I talk about all the time, all the time. So tell me, what do you mean that you need to examine your values? If you’re looking at a career pivot,
Speaker 2 00:30:23 Here we go. I call it your core, your core consists of your values, your beliefs, and your lifestyle. And, and here we go. Your values. Do you value family time? Um, do you value here we go on road in the eyes. Do you value position titles? It’s okay. Do you value climbing the corporate ladder? Do you value educating others? All of it’s. Okay. Any of those things that I just mentioned is okay, but you have to be true and honest with yourself. It took me a long time to be honest about the things that I value. And I guess this is a time for me to be vulnerable. I value position titles.
Speaker 1 00:31:11 Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 00:31:13 You know, and it took me a long time to say that because I felt like I was being like, oh, really judging myself. Like, oh, that’s not a good thing, but it’s all okay. Whatever you volume is, it’s completely fine. Just be honest with yourself. That’s
Speaker 1 00:31:30 The thing. Yes. Oh my God. Oh my God. Like, I mean, when it comes to relationships, when it comes to how you raise your children, when it comes to setting your houses, financial strategies, like be honest, be honest. Right. Do, are you trying to get your kid into that preschool because it’s a loving decision based on, um, just based on love or is it based on fear? Is it if I don’t do this, uh, if I don’t do this things, aren’t gonna work out. Okay. Wow.
Speaker 2 00:32:12 That’s so powerful.
Speaker 1 00:32:14 I’m going to let myself down. If I don’t do this, my parents are going to judge me. If I don’t do this, I’m not going to be as good as my neighbors. If I don’t do I’m failing. Um, according to some life mission, I set for myself 30 minutes ago. And rather than I’m doing this because I have the means and it’s natural and it flows and it feels great to do this. You know, like there’s a D let’s be honest about that. That’s so powerful. Yes. And so bring it into your career. Like, you know, if you had a goal that you need to earn $150,000, it is that because of your values, maybe it is. If your values say achievement is necessary for you to feel satisfied. If your value say, let’s say adventure, right? Because let’s say you want to go Trek through Antarctic or climb Mount Everest, or you want to, you know, go do these things that cost a lot of money. So if you’re doing things that are aligned with your values, they feel good, but let’s say those. Aren’t my values. My values are family time. My values are serenity and peace,
Speaker 2 00:33:23 Educating others, training others, you know, in a career
Speaker 1 00:33:29 Where I can earn $150,000 at the expense of what makes me feel good. And so I have the money and I feel gross about it.
Speaker 2 00:33:37 That’s right. That’s precisely why identifying what your values are, are so important. The next thing is your beliefs. Do you believe that you should be working nine to five? Do you believe that you should be working weeknights? Do you believe that you should be working weekends? All of that is important when you’re looking at the type of job that you want to go into, there are certain jobs that are a little bit more demanding in those areas than other. There are certain industries in careers that are more demanding and those areas than others. So it’s very important that you’re looking at that when it comes to the things like what you believe leaves,
Speaker 1 00:34:16 It’s like, you’re selling out. It’s like you’re selling yourself out. And then you feel greater to yourself.
Speaker 2 00:34:21 That’s that’s precisely. And it ties right into your lifestyle. Exactly what you were saying. Um, do you want to live a comfortable lifestyle, a basic lifestyle? Uh, this all plays a part in your career decision, right? When it talks about finances, so values, beliefs, lifestyle, all intertwined, and it
Speaker 1 00:34:41 Comes down to questioning what we’ve accepted as true. Right? Because we all say, well, yeah, I want to make a lot of money because life is less complicated and it’s simple that way. Okay. That’s great. That’s great. That’s fine. Right? If that’s, but is that, is that really what your insight is telling you? Does your inside tell you that if you don’t make this money, you don’t feel good, right? Or is that just what you’ve heard
Speaker 2 00:35:05 And accepted it as your personal truth? You’ve accepted it because once you accept something, you also attracted,
Speaker 1 00:35:14 Right? It’s like people who get promoted into management jobs because they, they, they just, that must be good. It’s more money. It’s a bigger job. That must be good. But did you stop to ask yourself if that’s what feels good to you? Are you selling out what feels good to you for someone else’s ideals of good?
Speaker 2 00:35:34 Yeah. The other thing is that people will start to notice is that when you, when your values align with your career decision, your values, beliefs, your lifestyle aligns with your career decision. You also ignite this creative side of you, right? And then when you do that and you start creating, if money is something that you felt like, you know what I do, what would like more money, but I value this and money will follow. And I, you know, people, and I know it’s like a shallow thing. You hear that, but it is so true when you really start to tap into, um, your superpowers and your creativity and your values aligned with it, then the money will follow. I value family. I value position, title, I value, um, balance, you know? So at some point I really had to stop valuing or believing. I should say, believing that those other things were necessary in order for me to be successful.
Speaker 1 00:36:37 Right? Because it’s like a continuum, just like your eye, just like your four letters. It’s not that it means you don’t care about money. It’s like, it’s where does money? Where does your salary fall on your list of priorities? And maybe, um, five years ago in your life, money might have fallen in number three, the number three spot. And maybe you’ve had a shift. And today upon closer evaluation, maybe your, your financials fallen spot six or spot seven in your priorities. So it’s not that we’re saying, like, you don’t care about that stuff. You don’t care about getting promoted. You don’t care. It’s not what we’re saying. It’s that are your priorities in order, according to what feels good or is it someone else’s priorities?
Speaker 2 00:37:26 That’s right. That’s right. Spot on. And then the last thing that you should do when you’re looking to make that career changer, go to a different position, leave your current position, take all that information we talked about and put it into a swallow, a SWAT analysis. So again, SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats for yourself. So I’ll give an example, maybe for string, you’re a visionary person. You like to solve problems. You care about social justice issues. Maybe the weakness is that you don’t like micromanagers, maybe four under opportunities, a nonprofit executive role might be a good fit for you because you’re a visionary. You like to solve problems and you care about social justice issues. So maybe an opportunity is a nonprofit, one of the industries or roles that you look at, just one of them. I have a question
Speaker 1 00:38:26 About opportunities. Do we mean opportunities? Like the, like, like, you know, the nice way of saying things we’re not doing well, you know how, like in a business we’re like, well, what’s our strength and what’s our opportunity, right? Opportunity means like what you’re failing at or does this mean opportunity, like a new chance at something, you know, like, I just want to clarify that
Speaker 2 00:38:45 It’s both and thanks for the clarity. It’s both. And I’ll show you how so opportunities are on one. Part of it is what are the opportunities that fit in with your personality, personality type and your core, but then it’s also, what are you not doing that you could start doing in order to help you figure out where you want to be? Maybe an opportunity now is to start some informational interviewing. So once you identified some careers that fit with your personality type in your core, then you start doing, um, talking to people that are within those industries, with that title in that field to see if it would actually gel with you. Right? So it’s an opportunity for you to start exploring that, um, and doing that. It’s an opportunity for you to learn more about the organization or maybe to learn more about whether or not you’d be a good entrepreneur, right?
Speaker 2 00:39:48 If it’s learning more about an organization, then maybe you learn about the managers that are there. And if you were to be in a position, would you be micromanaged your weaknesses micromanage, right. If you, if you’re looking to explore entrepreneurship, this is an opportunity for you to start talking to other entrepreneurs, maybe in similar fields and to try and, um, get a real listic, uh, point of view of what that looks like from someone who’s already doing it. So I’m talking about both. Thank you for clarifying that. So I’m talking about both and then the last are the threats, the threats, you know, peers who currently have experience in that industry, you know, but, um, knowing your threats will help you to take action, right? So, um, do you need to volunteer at an organization? Do you need to, do you need to do some gratis work? If you’re looking to be entrepreneur, do you need to do gratis workforce or maybe do some things for free in order to obtain that additional experience? So identify
Speaker 1 00:40:54 A threat.
Speaker 2 00:40:56 That’s a good, that’s a good question. So the weakness and on this chart is something that, um, that you’re just not that you’re struggling with. You know, you, you, maybe you don’t, you’re not good at, so you, so if we talk about personality type, you have your superpower. When you have the thing you’re not so good at, right. Maybe you’re not the detailed person. Um, so that’s the weakness part where the threat I’m talking about external environmental things and weakness, I’m talking about internal things that are internal any to you.
Speaker 1 00:41:29 Okay. Yeah. All right. So threat might be like, for example, um, if I want a tech job, but I’m in a, I’m in a location where tech is not really a prominent industry, that’s not a weakness, but it’s not, it’s an obstacle that I had going to have to deal with.
Speaker 2 00:41:45 Yes. And you need to know that. Perfect. And you need, that’s a perfect example. And you need to know that, um, in order to make your career shift and make that change, you need to know all these things. So doing those three things, discovering your personality, type, your super power, your strain, um, evaluating your core, really assessing your core, developing that SWAT analysis, those three things. Once you do that, then you can say, you know what? You should, at the end of doing those three things feel so much more empowered and enlightened about your next career move. So I have to say that. And I would also say that that exercise of figuring out your personality type, once you’ve taken any assessment, it’s always good to sit down with the career professionals, such as yourself, Johnny, um, uh, you know, a career strategist such as myself in order to sit down and really unpack them information. Right? So, um, that’s where you come in, Johnny, that’s really where you come in, you know, for, for, for people to really unpack that information. Right. So that’s why they want to meet with you.
Speaker 1 00:43:00 All right. Well, that is, that is amazing. You know, I just feel like, uh, yeah, I just feel like so many people are floating in a lukewarm ocean and they just, they can’t see which direction to paddle in. And, you know, um, I tell my, I tell my clients, it’s, it’s on my website. It’s everywhere. There, there, there are a couple of tenants of my practice. You already know, and you already are, you already know you already, you know, but, but the answer is in the stillness, you know, that’s the thing. If you don’t think, you know, you need to get still. And when I say get still, you know, does that mean meditating? Sure. Right. But, but, but it, it means quieting all the external noise, quieting all the ideas you’ve absorbed from the outside and asking your highest, most wise loving self what’s true about this. Yeah. And then having the guts to, to, to, to, to run with that, once your, once your higher self tells you, what’s true having the guts to accept it and use it rather than saying, well, that was just my imagination.
Speaker 2 00:44:18 Yeah. Can I say this? You know, everyone has a, um, there’s always someone or people in your life who, who is your coach? Right. I have a number of people in my life who are my coaches who are like my curriculum. So you are, you are like the career counselors or the life coaches, coach, right. You really are. You really are. You know, you’re one of my, you’re one of my coaches, um, and my career coaches. And I appreciate you so much, you know, it’s just so enlightening. Every, just listening to you and listen to your responses is enlightening for me. So you’re the career coaches, coach.
Speaker 1 00:45:05 Thank you. I love it. I love it. Well, let me tell you something together. We’re like Vultron baby. We put them to them little lions together and we conquer the world. So
Speaker 2 00:45:14 Love it. Love it. Love it. Love care, bears, game your life. That’s what I tell her. Aim your light. Right. Stop for a second. I used to love care bears. I mean, literally brought care bears with me all the way up through college. Not going to get any details. Just saying
Speaker 1 00:45:36 I used to love care bears. Yeah. Well, if you want to know why I am the way I am. How about the fact that when I was like seven mother Goodrich redecorated, my entire room and care bears talking about like wall cutouts, a huge rainbow. That’s
Speaker 2 00:45:50 Not true to the ceiling. I love hard spreads everything. And it’s like, I mean a nurture. I don’t know. I love it. Love mother, mother. Good. DRI is always channeling her creative side to bring out the light to bring out the light in others. The other boys
Speaker 1 00:46:09 Had transformers and I had Kibera.
Speaker 2 00:46:13 Listen. That is all. That’s all good. That’s all good because I like caravans better. So that’s right. That’s right. More the guys that you get on board, they need to get on board.
Speaker 1 00:46:28 That’s right. Visionary. Anyway, I’m so grateful for you coming on. I have relished this experience.
Speaker 2 00:46:36 I gotta get one of those,
Speaker 1 00:46:38 This experience. And, uh, I, uh I’m so I just thank you for sharing everything with our, with our listeners. And if they would like to ask you some more questions about one of your sprigs, if they’d like to find out how to get our Myers-Briggs, uh, um, assessment done, or if they have questions about, um, career pivoting, or just want to ask you your advice, uh, or maybe it’s like someone that knew you in elementary school. And they’re like, oh my. Anybody who knew me from elementary school, please reach out to me because I love my, if you were in Mrs. Squires class with me, please reach out to me. Come on now who loves Mrs. Squires? You know what I’m talking to? How can they get ahold of you? So via email? Um, I go by Keyia, but my full name is Shakeyia, And then my last name Kersey, sh************@***il.com. You can also link with me on LinkedIn, if that’s easier, just type in Shakeyia Kersey into Google and then a link with me on LinkedIn. Go to LinkedIn and link with me that way. You can also find me on Twitter. I’m ShakeyiaK on Twitter. I would love to link with you and talk to you and help in any way. All
Speaker 1 00:48:08 Right, my dear. Well, I am going to, uh, just once again, say thank you, wish you an amazing, amazing rest of the day. And uh, I just want to send you all like my love and my blessing.
Speaker 2 00:48:20 Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having, sorry. I didn’t let you finish because I’m so grateful. I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 00:48:30 You bet. You bet. All right, everybody. Well, as we wrap up same messages, always never forget to be good to each other and aim your light. Have a good day. Bye. You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Jo****@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember- Aim Your Light.

To learn more about the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator assessment, email Keyia at Sh************@***il.com or search Shakeyia Kersey on LinkedIn. You can also find her on Twitter @ShakeyiaK.

For similar content, try The Courage to Change Careers w/Karen Barnard or Artist Stan Piotroski- A Life that Feels Right.

Contact host Johnny Guidry at jo****@****************ng.com. For more information on coaching or to inquire about speaking engagements, visit www.refractivecoaching.com.

Find Phil Reese online at PhillipJReese.com, on Twitter @ReallyPhilReese or on Facebook at PhilReeseTheDJ, and find him here on Twitch where he DJs a 45 min set each Tues and Thurs at 7:10pm Eastern

For similar content, check out these episodes: Making Peace with Your Dark Side, The Ancient Truths of Acceptance & PLINKO, and From Addiction to Self-Acceptance.

If you’d like to book Johnny G for speaking, facilitation, or for personal coaching, visit www.refractivecoaching.com or email him at jo****@****************ng.com.

Good afternoon, everybody. And welcome to another episode of refractive podcast. Today. I have a good friend of mine joining us to talk about a topic that’s near and dear to both of our hearts. I am pleased to introduce you to Phil Reese. He’s the host of the whole field podcast. He is also a DJ and a web developer based out of Washington, DC. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 00:01:10 I’m wonderful. How are you? Good.
Speaker 1 00:01:13 So happy that you’re on refractive. It just, it, uh, it’s going to be some really nice quality content today.
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Awesome. I’m excited too.
Speaker 1 00:01:24 Yes. And when you and I were planning the episode, we decided to talk about something that’s near and dear to both of our hearts. Uh, it is the process of being in recovery and the wisdom that people in recovery are given by, uh, the literature and the traditions. Um, and by working the 12 steps and so many times, because my listeners know I’m in recovery and now they know you’re in recovery. So many, uh, so many times I’ve said to other people in recovery, boy, I just wish everyone had access to some of the tools and wisdom that we have access to because it’s truly life changing.
Speaker 2 00:02:14 Absolutely. I completely agree. Um, you know, uh, for, for most of my life, I kind of felt like everybody else in the world had like this owner’s manual for life and I, I didn’t get one. And, uh, and I kind of got that owner’s manual for life once I, uh, started doing 12 step recovery. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:02:37 Absolutely. So what, what do you say? We’ll just jump right in. Let’s do it. So you and I kind of brainstorm a list of some of the nuggets of wisdom that have been most useful to us. And, um, on the top of the list, it’s about surrendering and people who are listeners of a refractive podcast and also people who’ve enjoyed the aspects of your podcast. I’m sure that they’re not, uh, they’re not going to be surprised by the concept of surrendering and we call it in recovery, living life on life’s terms. So what has your experience with that philosophy of life on life’s terms? How has that impacted you?
Speaker 2 00:03:18 Oh my God. Well, it’s not something that’s ever come natural to me. Um, it’s something I have to work on every single day, but when I do the benefits are, are amazing. Uh, let me tell you a quick story, you know, um, I’m kind of a, I’m a, I’m kind of a panicker. Um, and, um, when things go wrong, my, or when things don’t go as planned, my head goes to catastrophe, um, a couple months ago because, uh, my day job is working for a university and we do graduations and I’m kind of in charge of recording those sorts of things and release, you know, publishing, promoting the recordings of those things. Um, we were doing our very first zoom graduations last may and, uh, things were going really well. I was really surprised at how well they were doing. Um, and then, uh, so we had to break up graduation to like five or six ceremonies, like ceremony, five, 15 minutes beforehand.
Speaker 2 00:04:28 My power goes out, the whole neighborhood’s power goes out. Right. And I’m supposed to be the one recording it, like, um, and so like old Phil would have totally panicked. Uh, if I didn’t reach a solution, uh, quickly, which you really can’t reach a solution very quickly when you’re panicking. Um, I would have just gotten frustrated, given up, probably started drinking. Um, and I didn’t do any of that. I, you know, at this point in may, my meditation practice had been pretty solid for awhile. And, um, I, uh, so I kind of, it, the power went out and it’s not like I was like, oh, great, glad, but I was able to keep calm and serene and accept my power’s out. Yeah. What now, what we didn’t plan for this, but what, what can I do? Um, and, uh, I immediately contacted the president of the university, let her know what was going on and contacted my immediate supervisor and said, here’s how you could record the ceremony for me and then send it to me afterwards.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 Um, and, uh, and so he did, he got it recorded and it was fine. My power was restored within an hour. So by the next ceremony I was back to normal. Yeah. Um, but that’s the sort of thing I would have just hit the wall over before. And so it’s really important to, um, be mindful of practicing this all the time. Yeah. Because it gets rusty real fast. And because I was in a mindset already because I’d been really working in my meditation practice and I’d been working the, the, the, the philosophies and the program to, you know, to keep this front and center in my mind, I was able to accept it, surrender to the reality that I kept no control over. And, um, and then, uh, change, you know, my actions, the only thing I have control over my actions, thoughts and judgments change my ex actions accordingly. And it went fine.
Speaker 1 00:07:00 Yeah. You know, I was raised in a way that led to me believing that I needed to be the master of my universe. And it wasn’t just He-Man that taught me that. Right. Like it was, it was everything it was, if I don’t, um, take control things will hurt me. And I even had been, let’s say called out several times by friends for even approaching dating relationships in the same way I would approach a work problem, I would say, well, what do you do if you’re having issue with someone you’re dating, I would analyze the variables. I would remove the variables that aren’t necessary. And then I would deal with the problems, um, individually in priority. And someone’s like, wow, you can’t approach a romantic relationship like that. Like, they’re not your employee. You can’t just fix problem a and problem be dismissed. Problem C.
Speaker 1 00:08:06 And I was like, of course I can. That’s how you’re effective in life. And this was the way that I lived. And it’s a painful way to live, which is counterintuitive. It feels like that is a, it feels like that’s an organized, effective, smart way to live. But the fact is there’s so little that we have control over that when we hang our entire day on being able to do a B and specifically C and they don’t happen, it hurts. Right. So the concept of life on life’s terms, as I’ve learned it through recovery, is that there’s literally nothing you can control, but yourself, all you can do is show up and moment by moment analyze what’s the next best thing for you to do? We call it right the next right. Action. What’s the next right. Action. I can take in this time. And it’s, it seems like, it seems so basic now that I say it, but it was revolutionary for me. How about you? Like, did it feel like, um, major shift in how you approach your life?
Speaker 2 00:09:19 Oh, absolutely. Uh, you know, like I said, I was a catastrophizer, uh, and, and like you, I was raised, you know, that I had to figure everything out. I had to be very independent. Um, and, um, you know, I, I was the master of my own destiny and if, uh, something went wrong, it was my fault and I had to fix it. Um, and you know, I can do a lot of damage to my life even now, even, uh, even though I’ve, I’ve changed quite a bit. Um, but I do accept that, that so much is out of my control and that’s okay. Because all that same stuff is out of everyone’s control. They’re just fooling themselves into thinking that it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:10:09 That’s the point. That’s the point
Speaker 2 00:10:12 When you fool yourself into it, when you delude yourself that way, like you said, it’s a miserable way to live it. If you can’t be happy, you can’t possibly be happy if your happiness hinges on you getting and things going according to your plans and things going your way in it, you know, because it’s just not going to happen. And even if it happens for a little bit, it’s unsustainable,
Speaker 1 00:10:41 And this is, this is the key of the concept of surrendering that we focus on so heavily in recovery. And I’m telling you for my listeners, like the concept of surrendering to what is, will change your life, because it’s the paradox that we don’t have power, any, like you said, anything we think we can do to, uh, to, to cause a particular impact in our day, our life, the world, another person that’s all illusion. And when you just surrender to the fact that I I’m not, God, I can’t make things happen. I can show up with my intentions and let go of the results. This is how you get power. You get power by not fighting, you know, it’s my favorite. So let’s move on to, uh, to the next topic that we have, which is, um, designing a higher power or a God or whatever type of being that feels right to you designing one that works for you. Can you explain what it means to design a higher power, uh, according to what works for you?
Speaker 2 00:12:02 Absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, it might sound sacrilegious to some people to design your own higher power. Um, but, uh, what it’s about for me is, um, you know, again, we’re looking at reality, like we were with, uh, accepting life on life’s terms, we’re looking at what, what is really going on, what is real to us, um, and, um, and, uh, what, what is possible. And, um, and so, um, we’re looking at our religious realities. I’m looking at my reality and my higher power has to make sense in my reality, or else I’m not going to be able to turn to my higher power. Um, I have to be able to believe in it. Uh, and so, um, you know, designing my higher power, um, uh, has been, uh, I mean, it’s been a lifelong, um, effort for me. I’ve always been a spiritual seeker.
Speaker 2 00:13:13 I was raised a Roman Catholic, but I have not been Roman Catholic for a long, long time. Um, but for me, it’s really important that my higher power, um, be able to inspire me to do what is right. Um, in those moments that I have to accept life on life’s terms. I have to make choices in those moments. Right. And I need my higher power to inspire me to make the right one. Um, and my higher power has to look out for me. Yeah. Um, and so, um, that’s, that’s really all, I really need to know about my higher power. Yeah. Beyond that. Nothing’s really knowable, you know, um, if you have, uh, some sort of a spiritual higher power, but you can even have, you know, I talked to, I talked to a lot of agnostics and atheists, um, in recovery and, um, you know, you, your, your higher power doesn’t have to be like a dude in the sky. You know, it just needs to be, um, it needs, you need to accept that there are things bigger than you. And that is where you can start with a higher power. There are things bigger than me. There are things more powerful than me. Um, some are good, some are bad. So I need to focus on those things bigger than me that are good for me that are good for my community. Uh, and that’s where my higher power I can begin designing my higher power. And that really helped me early on in sobriety.
Speaker 1 00:15:03 Yeah, absolutely. And so I want to kind of break this up into two, two parts. The first part, talking to listeners who might be atheist or agnostic, um, what does it mean to have a higher power? If it’s not a sentience being, if it’s not a God, then what is a higher power? And you know, what I would offer is that, uh, you know, in, in the 12 steps, and this is the wisdom that you and I are, are excited to share with the listeners. Um, and the 12 steps, if it doesn’t matter, if someone has a God or not, uh, like you said, it matters that it needs to be something bigger than them. And so a lot of people use a group of friends of trusted friends and that while one other person, uh, isn’t really an ideal higher power. If you were to go to two or three people for help or advice and, uh, pick the middle of all of their advice, you’re going to be taken care of.
Speaker 1 00:16:05 Right? Because having that group balances out, everybody’s crazy, everybody’s baggage, and it allows you to pick the, the most loving, sensible response to anything that’s happening. So a higher power could simply be the wisdom of three people, which is greater than the wisdom of one person. Um, and so for those of you who might be, um, agnostic or atheist, when we say design a higher power, what we mean is have a framework for this kind of support that works for you, that feels loving and genuine for you. For some people higher power could be, uh, it could even be, um, scripture for Christians, right? Go into the, go into the, to the Bible and find the guidance that’s there for you that might not work for me, but it’s something that is a source of guidance and support and help. That feels right now for the people who are, uh, who believe in a deity, a sentience being, um, like myself.
Speaker 1 00:17:21 My listeners know I’m not, I don’t qualify as Christian, but I do believe in a God. Um, the purpose of designing a higher power is that if you believe your higher power disapproves of you, if you believe your higher power is coming after you, um, then how on earth can you invite that system of support in to help you now, the logic of this is that if you believe that God is everything, if you believe that God is all, then that means God is approval and disapproval, God is good. God also contains the evil, right? God is everything. And therefore, since we can’t know all about God, like you just said, we can’t know everything that God is, why not wrap our heads around the parts of God that we can understand. Some people envision a God, that’s like a loving parent. Some people envision a God. That’s like a sibling, um, uh, a person that will behave in a way that feels supportive. And so I wonder if you have anything else to add to them.
Speaker 2 00:18:36 Uh, I think that is absolutely 100% right on, and I think that if, even if you do come from a more rigid faith tradition, like I, I came from Catholicism. I, if I were still Catholic, I don’t think there would be, uh, any tension between, um, the, the concept of designing my higher power, uh, and what I was raised with, even though what I was raised with doesn’t work for me, if I were still with that, I think it would, it’s still work because, you know, every major religion believes that, you know, the, the higher power of that religion of that spiritual, uh, system, uh, is, is too great to be comprehended, no matter what. And even if you believe in no religion, there’s still, you know, I recently read astrophysicist astrophysics for people in a hurry by Neil deGrasse, Tyson. Um, and, you know, even the, the, the physical laws of the universe are too great for certainly any one person to understand, but even our scientists don’t understand everything.
Speaker 2 00:19:51 Totally. We still don’t really know how gravity works. We’re getting a better idea all the time, since we discovered gravity waves. That was, that was great, but we’re still kind of confused about how gravity works. And when we get into those big star systems, we don’t know how it works. So there are going to be there, there are rules and laws in the universe that you’re not going to understand, and that’s okay. Focus on what you can understand. And that is what, what, um, what seems right and wrong for you for me, right. And wrong has to do with how the, um, how I interact with, uh, the community around me, um, how I am, uh, bringing value to other people and, and helping other people, um, that’s right. Uh, when I take an exploit from other people that’s wrong. Um, and, uh, and that’s all, I, again, that’s really all I need know.
Speaker 2 00:20:47 Um, and I, I start there and I, I make my decisions that way. And you, like, you beautifully said, having a group of people to consult that have a similar beliefs about how to, how to move within this world has been so helpful for me there. When I, you know, I was not a person who asked for help ever, um, before getting sober, uh, getting sober was kind of the first time I ever asked for help in a long, long time. Right. And, um, I, uh, I, now, when I am feeling stuff, when I’m perplexed over stuff, this is stuff I used to just faster on just barely. Now I reach out when something’s bothering me, I reach out and I talk to people I trust and try and get some insight from them. And that’s how I talked to my higher power.
Speaker 1 00:21:38 Yes. I think, I think that’s perfect because, you know, we didn’t set it up. I didn’t set it up this way at the beginning of the episode, but everyone who’s listening here knows someone touched by addiction, know someone who’s touched by compulsion. And what we’re saying is if these tools, and if these concepts are powerful enough to pull us back from the jaws of addiction, then these things also work. When you have a conflict with someone at work, they also work when your mother pushes your buttons. And they also work when you can’t have what you want out of life. Like it, they work for the big traumas and they work for the little stuff too. And that’s why I felt this was such a valuable episode. Um, because there are people who just don’t know this stuff. Ironically, people who are on a path of spiritual awakening often find this same information, because these concepts are universal among, uh, spiritual teachers.
Speaker 1 00:22:43 You find a lot of these concepts. If you dig under the surface, even in Catholicism, that back in the day when these things were, were, were, were being accepted by the masses, these are the ideas that rituals were built upon, you know, the same concepts. And, uh, I do want to say, though, you talked about how the forces of physics and, uh, are greater than a person, but when bath and body works has buy one, get one free candles. I can bend space time. And I just, I just need you to not get my I’m getting my candles. So yeah, I want to have that caveat. So no great point.
Speaker 2 00:23:27 That’s a great point about all of these spiritual traditions kind of having that same thing. Um, you know, I read a lot of, uh, Taoism, uh, the Dao de Ching and, um, Kwanzaa. And, um, I read a lot of stoicism and these concepts about the higher power and accepting life on life’s terms are prominent concepts in those two traditions as well. And they’re from very different times and very different places. So it is very universal.
Speaker 1 00:24:01 So let’s talk about shame. Shame is the reason why so many of us turned to compulsion’s, um, and, uh, it deepened our reliance on these various substances, whether it’s food or drugs or alcohol to, to, to numb and, and muffle the shame we felt. And so we’ve said that, uh, shame lives in darkness and that when we, we, we take the lid off the shame box and we, we let light shine on it. It loses its power. And I know that there is an expression that we use in the rooms about shame and the burden of it. And, uh, why don’t you share with us how that goes? Sure.
Speaker 2 00:24:45 Well, right. Just very along these lines. One of my favorite expressions, um, is a burden shared, uh, is cut in half and joy shared is doubled. Um, and that also ties into our former topic about, um, you know, about having a higher power and having a group. That’s how I use my higher power in my groups, uh, of trusted people. I, like I said, I go to them with a burden and, um, uh, I find it’s really true. Uh, and the, again, prior to this sort of journey I’m on now, uh, I, I was, I was an island, right. I would walk alone, whatever was happening to me. I would either hold inside bitterly or I would lash out and act out over it, neither, very healthy at all. Um, so instead of doing a tweet storm of anger or, or sitting around moping in bed, or, you know, punching my wall, um, again, I reach out and I share, and this goes for shame.
Speaker 2 00:26:05 And this goes for things that I am, um, hurt by this. This goes for things I’m, you know, uh, I’m disappointed in this goes through things that perplex me when I all, any of those burdens when I share them, um, then, uh, they are less scary. Um, you know, that I saw someone share on Instagram today about, um, uh, something about, uh, psychotherapy, um, that, uh, was really poignant, um, that, you know, a does it, and, you know, a lot of my friends are like trained therapists, but they do some of that same work for me, a therapist doesn’t, um, kill the monsters. The therapist invites them into the room so that you can see that they have no teeth. They got no nothing in their hand and they’re scared and, uh, and weak, um, and, uh, invites them into the room so you can face them. And that’s what sharing a burden does. You can, you can see it for what it is when you’re, when you’re, um, when you’re sharing this burden, when you’re sharing the shame with someone, something you’re very ashamed of or something that’s really just bothering you because you can’t figure it out. Um, it loses its teeth. It loses its teeth so fast. And the more you do it, the easier it gets and the more effective that gets. Yes,
Speaker 1 00:27:42 Yes. And you don’t need to take our word for it. Again, you can go to any religious practice from Catholicism to Judaism. They all have processes where you look at what is weighing you down, and you share it with someone, right? You either go get absolution for a priest, or you have your family ritual in Judaism. And the point is that if you don’t get it off your chest, you begin to withdraw. You begin to live in fear. You begin to live in isolation because you don’t want people to know. And, uh, the fact is, like you said, with that whole monster scenario in the therapist, it’s like the thought and the belief of what we’re holding is so much more harmful than, uh, uh, than what is really there, right? The power is in the thought and the energy we give to it rather than what it actually is. And I mean, why do you think therapy works, right? Why do people pay for therapy? Because they need to go get stuff off their chest. They need to explain, what’s weighing them down. And, uh, yeah. And we do that in recovery. Um, very often that’s what we share about in meetings, right? Like when we talk with, with other members of a fellowship, we share that stuff so that it doesn’t weigh us down and push us back into our compulsion’s again. That’s why it works on the small stuff too.
Speaker 2 00:29:18 Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:29:21 So let’s talk, uh, this kind of dovetails with the concept of, um, shame. It talks, it touches on the concept of reaching out to other people on, if you compare you despair. So tell us what that is all
Speaker 2 00:29:36 About. Oh God, that’s another great phrase that I use all the time. Um, and you know, I brought up Instagram in the last, uh, answer, talk about the place where you can compare and despair more than look at Kendall Jenner’s oh man. Like, you know, people are, uh, curating on social media. People are curious, um, their lives to put forward, to maintain an image that they want. And even outside of social media, that people, you don’t see all the warts, you know, people, people put makeup over it. So when we are comparing ourselves to others, we’re comparing ourselves to the image that they want us to see. Um, or the, the image that they’ve they’ve put forward. So it’s really, it’s not, it’s not useful. Again, it gets get goes back to that delusional, um, mindset that, um, you know, we want to get away from, um, it’s, it’s delusional to think that anyone’s life is as perfect as it seems from what you’re allowed to see.
Speaker 2 00:30:51 So when you compare and you say, I wish I had, uh, you know, that, uh, that kind of success. I wish I had the boat. I wish I had the house. I wish I had the husband. Uh, you know, I wish I had the little corgi and, uh, you know, the, uh, all the vacations, you’re not seeing the whole picture. And there are probably some dark things that go along with all that stuff that you don’t have to experience. It’s best to just, um, focus on yourself, don’t compare to, uh, don’t compare your, uh, successes and failures to what other people are putting out there. Um, it’s just not a complete and whole picture. And so therefore it’s not a wise comparison to make. Are you happy? That’s what that do you, are you grateful for what you have? Are you, um, you know, are I have this, this cat that’s sitting right here at my feet, it’s adorable.
Speaker 2 00:32:00 And it’s, it’s sweetest thing in the world. And I have to, I remind myself all the time, how grateful I am that they have the two cats that love me so much. Yes. Uh, that’s a wonderful thing. And not everyone can have that, you know? So, um, you know, are, are you living in gratitude for what? Yeah. Are you, um, you know, appreciating, uh, you know, again, both the Stoics and the Dows and the Buddhists all preach this, you know, being grateful for what you have. Uh, you’d never know when it can be taken from you and not trying to leap over the next hill, you know, um, uh, trying to get the next thing, not waiting and appreciating what you you’ve already attained for getting about ignoring it and, and worrying about the next thing it’s not healthy and it doesn’t work.
Speaker 1 00:32:55 No. And I mean, if you want to take this to a really practical level, um, the last episode was, uh, on or two episodes ago was about accepting the expectations of others as your own. And so here’s, here’s what happens to us, right? As, as, as kids and adolescents, we learn, um, a blueprint for life that is really great for some people. And we extrapolate on that, that it is the only way to achieve a quality life. And, you know, the reason that meditation is so powerful is because it gives you a chance to go inside and learn about yourself, to thine own self, be true. And the fact is, is it necessary to get your two-year-old into that elite pre-K? Is it necessary? Like, can you know that you are hurting your kids chances by not doing that? Like, can you really know that it is, is that what you really want, or is that what you have absorbed as necessary, according to a standard that doesn’t even belong or fit you and, and, you know, do I need to be a vice president of such and such area, a business to have a reasonable life, maybe.
Speaker 1 00:34:39 So for some people that is a fulfilling, exciting part of their life, but for me, so many of us have pursued careers that would allow me to fall into someone else’s mold. And it wasn’t until I got knocked down and someone held my hand and helped me look inside to realize I don’t want that. And I didn’t even know, I didn’t want it. If you would have asked me if I wanted it, I would have said yes, and I would have believed it a hundred percent. But the fact is that I want, I didn’t really want what all these other people had. It just seemed like the winning combination. And by looking inside, I was able to sort through that fog. And so when we say don’t compare, that sounds ridiculous. It sounds impractical not to compare ourselves to others. We see things on the street and we want them right. But do yourself the favor of knowing yourself of taking time to go inside and saying, do I want this because it’s gonna make me feel right? Or do I want this? Because I love myself and there’s going to be an experience of joy, and it’s going to really enrich the joy in my life. Those are not the same thing, always.
Speaker 2 00:36:15 Exactly. And I’m really glad you brought up careers. I had a conversation with a friend in my circle of experts, uh, the other day, um, about ambition and, you know, ambition isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Ambition, ambition got me where I’m at today, but there were times where I was ambitious and miserable, um, because I was, uh, pursuing things they didn’t necessarily really want, or really weren’t for me because I thought that I was, that was I, that was what I was supposed to do. I need to be ambitious and I will find happiness if I’m in business for those things that are a good fit for me, that are attainable, that I’m ready for, that I’ve done the hard work on myself for, um, that I’ve prepared for. And, um, you know, are, are in my wheelhouse and harmony with your values. Exactly. Hmm.
Speaker 1 00:37:16 Yeah, exactly. All right. I love, I love this. I think it’s just so rich. I think it’s so powerful, uh, because I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Um, and you know, if I share with the listeners kind of the alcoholic or the recovery prospect of this, there’s so many reasons to go back into our compulsive behaviors and listen, your problem might not be with a substance. You might be a workaholic, right? Where you, you, you work way harder than is necessary because you need to, um, muffle some other area of your life. You need to numb out some other area of your life. It works just as well with cake. It works just as well with beer. It works just as well with, uh, with drugs. I promise you. Um, but the fact is, uh, no, what matters to, you know, your values? And when I work with clients, um, you know, that’s usually one of the first things that happen.
Speaker 1 00:38:22 Someone walks in and says, I don’t know why my life feels so blah. Like why does my life feels so like, it’s on, um, autopilot and often it’s because you have built a universe that doesn’t belong to you. It was never meant for you. It was never yours. You know, uh, there is a world that will light your soul on fire. You just have to open your eyes and get quiet. So Phil, we are, uh, we’re running close to, uh, to our time limit, but I do want to quickly go over one more. And so I’m just going to let you talk on it and I’m going to keep my mouth shut on it. And this is about keeping your side of the street clean. So can you give the listeners just an overview of what it means to keep your side of the street clean?
Speaker 2 00:39:18 Absolutely. This is kind of the, the, the mirror image to what we just talked about, which is when you compare you to despair, keeping your side of the street clean, you know, it really, um, another way to look at it is, uh, you know, uh, that old saying people in glass houses or, uh, or for the, the Christians in the audience, uh, John eight, seven, let anyone let anyone of you who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone.
Speaker 1 00:39:53 Do you feel racist, serving gospel realness on refractive podcasts?
Speaker 2 00:39:57 It’s, uh, you know, it, uh, again, it could, it goes down to look at yourself first. A lot of these really get down to focus inward instead of outward. So much of my life used to be focusing outward, um, trying to fix things outside of me. I’m trying to be like people that I was never going to be like. Um,
Speaker 1 00:40:24 Phil P everyone else is messed up. People are constantly getting in your way. People are constantly, uh, hurting you, hurting your feelings, um, you know, cutting you off in traffic, uh, flaking off, not showing up for commitments like other people are messed up. So why is it that it’s useful to focus on my side of the street when there’s so many other people who are dragging me down with their hot messes?
Speaker 2 00:40:54 Absolutely. And those people are still going to be hot messes, whether or not I focus on them. If, if my focus is on other people’s problems, other people’s flaws, uh, I’m not going to get peace and serenity. I’m not going to find my joy, um, that happiness, that fulfillment comes from inside of me. Um, and so it doesn’t matter if someone else is cutting me off, um, in traffic, it, what matters is, you know, have I, have I made my gratitude list for the day? Have I pet my cats? Have I, um, you know, eaten a good meal. Um, when I bring that focus back inward, um, and stop focusing on all the flaws I see on other people, I stopped noticing their flaws as much their flaws don’t bother me as much, and I can keep, um, improving my life instead of trying to fix other people. Um, you know, cause there’s lots to fix in my life. I’ve got a lot of work to do. I really don’t have time to fix anyone else’s life. That’s right. Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:42:11 Man, this has been so great. I really, I really love this. Let me just recap the main, uh, nuggets of wisdom that we’ve dug into today. We talked about, uh, surrendering, uh, which, which is living life on life’s terms rather than the life that we try to architect as if we could possibly architect anything. Um, the next was design a higher power that works for you, right? Think about what you need from a higher power, whether it is a sentience being or whether it is not, and, uh, have that framework ready in your mind so that when the, um, when the message, the fan, you have something to fall back on and rely on for support. A burden shared is halved and, uh, shame lives in darkness. So this was the third point that we talked about today. And, um, there’s a reason that it feels good to talk to a friend when something is going wrong.
Speaker 1 00:43:09 Um, do more of that. Don’t just save it for the hard stuff. At the end of the day, if a coworker gave you a nasty side eye, it’s okay to talk to someone and say, I don’t know why she did that. It really upsets me well, because you know, maybe there’s, uh, maybe there’s something you can do about it internally. Instead of focusing externally on that, uh, we talked about when you compare you despair and that in reality, as long as you know yourself, as long as you know, what matters to you, as long as you understand your, um, your values, it doesn’t matter what other people are doing. And it only hurts us when we drown out the voice of guidance inside of us to adopt the voice of guidance of someone else that is, uh, that is painful. Uh, and then the last one we talked about was keeping your side of the street clean. You know what, I apologize when I do something wrong, I focus on doing the things that are good and healthy for me. And if someone hurts, my feelings takes advantage of me, uh, or, uh, behaves in a way that’s not fair. I let them and karma handle them. I don’t need to worry about that. Um, I just say, I’m sorry, when for what I’ve done and that’s it. So, uh, all right, Phil, how can listeners, uh, encounter you and your podcast and all of the goodness that comes out of, uh, the whole field?
Speaker 2 00:44:45 Well, uh, my podcast is called the whole fill podcast and you can find it on any pod catcher, just, um, uh, all the major ones, at least, you know, apple and Google and, uh, iHeart and Castbox, uh, Stitcher just put, uh, just search for whole w H O L E Phil P H I L uh, the whole field podcast. And it should come up, uh, as the top result or one of the first results. Um, please subscribe. I’d really appreciate it. You can also find my we*****@*************ck.com. That’s Phillip with two L’s and, um, uh, you can find me on Twitter at really Phil Reese. You can find me on all these evil, social medias, uh, Facebook I’m, Phil Reese, the DJ and Instagram. I am Phillip Drake, J Reese, uh, and I’m also Phillip J Reese on Twitch where I DJ live on Tuesday and Thursday nights for 45 minutes from seven, 10 to seven 55, uh, Eastern time, the, um, uh, club 45. Uh, and that’s where you can find me.
Speaker 1 00:45:58 So wait, can you say, what is, uh, can you tell people how they can find you on DJ? You said Twitch, uh, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:46:05 Twitch.tv/phillip J Reese.
Speaker 1 00:46:08 Okay. There you go. Perfect. All right, everybody. I want to thank you so much for joining us on refractive podcast today. I want to give my love and gratitude to Phil for coming onto the show today. And as you go about your day and people are stepping on your toes and slamming your door, just remember to be good to other people and aim your light. Take care. You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Johnny J O H N N *@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember aim your light.

Learn more about Swedenborg and the Swedenborgian Christian denomination at www.Swedenborg.Org or explore Reverend Rich Tafel’s Church, the Church of the Holy City at HolyCityDC.org. Email Rich Tafel at Re******@********DC.org

For similarly-themed episodes, try The Ancient Truths of Acceptance & PLINKO or Surrender to Greatness

To read the Sermon on the Mount, check out Matthew Chapters 5-7. A link to those chapters in the NIV Bible is here.

A transcript of the episode is offered below. Please note that the transcription is done automatically by software, so please excuse any errors.

Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there ready for you and blue wave for you. And as long as you mean, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Hi everybody. And welcome to another episode of refractive. I am here today with, uh, someone who I met, uh, maybe about two years ago. Now he is the pastor of a church that I attend. And, uh, I’m really pleased to introduce him to you. His name is rich. Toffel rich Toffel is a leader at the intersection of faith politics and social impact as pastor of church of the holy city in Washington, DC. In 2016, he launched a spiritual entrepreneur center, bringing inner life with social impact. Rich serves on the governing board of the national council of churches, where he’s a member of the Christian Muslim dialogue and the interfaith table ordained in the Swedenborgian church. Rich is a graduate of Harvard divinity school and served as the assistant minister at the Memorial church of Harvard university. Rich also serves as the founding director of Marcom social capital advisors since 2016, there he matches impact investors to vetted social ventures. He also founded public squared as a strategy and coaching company focused on supporting social impact businesses, coaching over 400 clients through all of his work in faith, politics, and business. He’s motivated to help those without a voice to live in a more just world. And all of those reasons are why I’m happy to present him to the listeners of refractive. Rich, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 00:02:14 I’m doing great, Johnny. It’s great to see you. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:02:16 Absolutely same here. And, um, I thought that we could spend some time today talking about a really central part of, of the gospels. Um, this is more specifically referring to the sermon on the Mount, which is one of Jesus’s most iconic teachings. And I have always felt that it’s revolutionary and its message. And, uh, so I thought someone with your background with your passion, uh, would be able to be a good partner to work with me, to share this with listeners who may not be so familiar with it, to understand how, in my view it was Jesus reaching to people who were outside of the confines of religion and dogma, and really providing a spiritual path rather than a religious path for elevating your life, elevating your soul presence and, uh, changing how you show up in the world. And I think that’s really massive.
Speaker 2 00:03:20 Yeah, it’s real easy. You got the right word there. It really is revolutionary in that sermon on the Mount, he takes a lot of traditional ways of looking at the world, uh, the powerful, the strong, the mighty, and he flips it and basically says that the kingdom of heaven or the way to heaven or the spiritual path, all of those happen the opposite way, the meek, the poor, those that are not violent. And so it was radical. Then, as you said, he was a really a criminal among the religious establishment that’s who was really most upset. And frankly, his message today, even for your listeners, they would be very surprised probably if they read it because it doesn’t correspond to what they may associate with Christianity. In other words, Christianity in many ways has fallen into the same trap as the religious fundamentalists of his time who condemned it. And though they would use the name Jesus or Christ as what they’re following. Um, that message is still radical. It’s still not being acted on. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:04:20 Absolutely. And I think that you specifically are a really strong, um, choice as a guest to come talk on this because of the nature of the Swedenborg faith. And I would love for you to share with the listeners just a little bit about what this, uh, Christian denomination believes, how it observes Christianity, um, and, uh, you know, because I think it could be eyeopening. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:04:52 Yeah. It’s a, it’s a V it’s a somewhat obscure, uh, Christian denomination, but it’s basically a Christian mysticism. So it’s a little outside of the traditional Christianity and it believes in Jesus has God. So that’s a traditional thing. It believes in the Bible, but it doesn’t see the Bible as a literal book that you would go to and literally interpret the story from the old Testament and apply that today. It would require interpretation and even a deeper spiritual understanding of the scriptures that makes it different. Um, it’s mystical in the sense that the, the Emanuel Swedenborg Christian scientist mystic said he saw heaven and hell, which is pretty out there. That’s very mystical. And in that experience, uh, he saw, wow, uh, in the next life, all faith paths, um, were welcoming to heaven. That was a radical statement. Uh, he also saw that many, uh, people who had been Christian leaders, um, were in the other place hell and he describes him heaven and hell in a very different way than traditional Christianity, as opposed to somewhere, you would go on a judgment day and you’d be, they’d look at your life or what you do.
Speaker 2 00:06:01 You proclaim a certain belief. You go to heaven or hell. He says, basically we begin that decision-making process in our life through our action. So when we’re loving another person, we’re on a path to heaven. When we are engaged in selfish, domination and evil were on a hellish path. And then after we pass from this world, we basically joined the community that shares our love. And so that freedom has to allow for people who are evil to be together. And, uh, that that would be their choice. It’s not a condemnation to hell. So that’s, that’s a very different way of looking at it as well. So I think the idea that all faith paths are good. Your purpose here on earth is to be useful and of service. It’s critically important. So it’s not afterlife focused. You don’t behave certain ways on this planet to get into heaven or to avoid hell.
Speaker 2 00:06:55 You actually behave in this world because that’s what you’re called to do, which is to be a fight for justice fight for the least of these is, is your purpose. And it’s to love your, to love God is to love your neighbor. You can’t do one without the other. So it’s a very, um, it has a very active life in this world. It’s, it’s not that. So those are some of the biggest differences. It’s a very evolutionary and its view of the Bible and of life. It believes the world is evolving spiritually. It believes we evolve spiritually and it believes that the Bible is almost a guide book of spiritual evolution. More than I say, say a history or a science book.
Speaker 1 00:07:32 And I mentioned, go ahead,
Speaker 2 00:07:33 Please. Just say, does that make sense? That’s absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:07:36 To me it, well, to me it makes sense. So, uh, I hope for the listeners to, I’ve mentioned in earlier episodes that while I don’t consider myself to be a traditional Christian, um, that I do go to a church and it’s your church. And, um, I remember the first time that you and I met, I had requested for us to have a conversation so that I could learn more about your church. I had kind of stopped and found a brochure and read about it. And I thought that, um, for me, what I wanted was to go to a place where I could be in the same, um, proximity with other people who are, um, I mean, worshiping would be the traditional terms, but for me it’s more about like elevating my vibration and, and, and, you know, just surrendering into the spiritual moment. And I wanted to, to, to, to be in the presence of other people doing that. And that’s why I started going to your church. And I told you that I don’t come from a place where I see Jesus as my Lord and savior. And what does that mean for my place in your church? And I was really interested in, in your response. So I would like for you to, um, share that, uh, how do you reconcile the fact that you believe that Jesus is Lord, um, yet also have a belief system that all faiths have a path?

Speaker 2 00:09:09 Yeah. It’s not mutually exclusive. There’s a view that if you believe in Jesus, it’s a binary, therefore I’ve got to condemn everybody else. If you look at Jesus or Christ consciousness, um, having, coming into the world as the path of love than anybody who was on that path is engaging in that energy. They could call it different things. And my experience in my life has been that many people who use the word Christian, which would say I’m a follower of Jesus have been some of the more darker forces I would even say hellish forces. Um, it makes me angry because they are branding Christianity for a lot of people as this sort of shame-based judgmental, condemnation, um, and hypocritical generally, there’s a lot of hypocrisy in those groups. Uh, and so, uh, for me, uh, I’ve also worked with a lot of people of all face.
Speaker 2 00:10:01 As, as you mentioned, I do Christian Muslim dialogue. I’ve worked a lot in the Jewish community and I’ve worked a lot with Buddhists. And, um, and I work with a lot of atheists and particularly in my coaching practice, that was really fascinating in my coaching practice that clients would say to me, rich, I had to overlook the fact that I saw you were a minister. He was a coach because I’m atheist. What I have found to be true. And this fits in actually with our tradition is that people who would call themselves agnostic or atheist many times live a life of love to the neighbor, much better than people who have a, who call themselves Christian. So I’m not so interested in so much what you say. Um, I would say I’m much more curious. What do you do? Who are, are you working on it?
Speaker 2 00:10:54 Are you humble? Are you reflecting on your life? Are you trying to be a better person every day? Um, and how that works? The tricky part for me though, Johnny, you said something really interesting about coming to a group. I have found in my life that I’ve, uh, maybe the hardest thing has been forgiveness, for example, and that’s powerful spiritually. I don’t know how people who don’t tie into a spiritual energy of some kind can do that, but they must. So for me, I’m, I’m humble by my faith. It doesn’t make me proud. It’s like I couldn’t do those things without a faith and I can’t do it alone. I think a lot of America particularly are radically individuals and are a lot of our spiritual seeking is radically individual. I think we have to do this in community, as you were describing. And in our service, as you mentioned, the sermons pretty short and the service is very short. It’s a half hour, but we talk and discuss and dialogue for an hour. To me, that’s more important. I want to hear the diverse voices now everybody’s seeing it. And let’s all learn from each other from the different perspectives. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 00:11:58 Yes. And I know as well that you were involved in, uh, as I mentioned during your bio, uh, you were a gay activist and you’re still involved in many instances like that. So what is, uh, what’s the belief system of homosexuality as relative to the Swedenborgian faith?
Speaker 2 00:12:20 Well, we do, uh, ordain gay ministers, which is obviously me and I’m at the national church and being quite supported. So we’re a very welcoming church. This is all probably in the last couple of decades. So this is an evolving thing. It’s an unusual and new thing. I will say when I started my path toward becoming a minister in my twenties and went to divinity school and I worked at the chapel at Harvard, I also was coming out and to a person, everybody said, you need to find a new career. And that was true. So there was no path forward for me, even though I had been ordained and I switched kind of into politics and public policy, but, uh, I’ve come full circle back to a church, but I, I was quite bitter, frankly, myself. Sure. Because, um, I was dealing, I was an aids activist and I was also a gay activist. So Mo most of my encounters with so-called Christians were in debates sometimes bitter debates, sometimes cruel debates. And so, uh, I got to see up close and personal, um, how negative Jesus could be portrayed. And I was in some cases fighting for Jesus when I would be debating or arguing basis.
Speaker 1 00:13:29 Yeah. All right. Um, well thank you for giving us some background into your faith, because for me, uh, the stuff that you shared with the listeners is why I feel so at ease with bringing you onto the show, because I know that you and I have no argument, we have no disagreement like our, our beliefs dovetail, um, in a very, uh, very lovely way. And, uh, so thank you in advance for coming on and talking about this, um, the Bible, which is a topic that my listeners might not expect me to have a show on. Um, but I feel strongly that, um, the Bible is chock full of just timeless, beautiful wisdom for how to, uh, how to live a freer life, how to live a life of serenity and joy and abundance and flow. And I think the, the, uh, the sermon on the Mount for me is a combination of all of that.

Speaker 1 00:14:27 So what do you say we dig in? Sure. Let’s dig in. So the be attitudes are something that so many of us, I went to a Catholic school as a kid, and, you know, the beatitudes were something that we learned early on and they are, uh, the first part of the sermon on the Mount. So I’ll go ahead and read the beatitudes for listeners who may not be as familiar with them. And then I’d love to hear from you. Um, what think the practical, useful messages for us are in this, in these verses. Now, when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up, oh, and this is, uh, Matthew chapters five through seven is the sermon on the Mount. Now, when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountain side and sat down. His disciples, came to him and he began to teach them.
Speaker 1 00:15:13 He said, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted, blessed are the meek for, they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful for, they will be shown mercy, blessed are the pure in heart for, they will see God blessed are the peacemakers for, they will be called children of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me rejoice and be glad because great is your reward in heaven for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you so rich, what do you think is the practical guidance for us? And why is this so revolutionary?
Speaker 2 00:16:05 Well, I guess we could go through each one, but I think primarily what it’s doing is, um, what’s fascinating is the world of today is not that different in many ways, its values of, uh, 2000 years ago, when he’s speaking to the audience, we can both kind of understand that let’s just talk about today. The value system today would pretty much say to be successful, is to have money, have a lot of money, um, have a lot of power, money, power, dominion, over other people, control of people. Um, celebrity status, maybe, um, your well-known, um, material items, um, you know, beautiful home, beautiful car, beautiful appearances. So very materialistic worldview. And that was certainly true in his time. It’s radically true today. And the beatitudes kind of flip all of that. They basically say, um, if I would sum up in one thing, you know, blessed are the meek, blessed are the weak, bless it are the losers. Bless it are the underdogs. Bless it are people who are persecuted bless it are people who are suffering. It flips that whole narrative that, um, what the world sees as successful is not successful successful is these other positions often that appear weak in the world, but are loving, caring, compassionate, creating justice, doing good, and being at peace in your own heart happiness. So it flips the whole narrative. It’s erratic. It’s just surprising how radical it is today that we’re still in a world where it runs against the grain completely.
Speaker 1 00:17:40 Yeah, that’s right. And you know, for people who would say, well, I don’t aspire to be wealthy. I don’t aspire be famous. I don’t aspire, you know, for, for the power and celebrity that rich just mentioned. I mean, I would say, you know, it just happens to look a little different in our world, but we look for promotions at work. We look to be managers, right? We look for raises and it doesn’t mean that we need to be, uh, wealthy and powerful in the legendary sense. We look for security in more money, uh, more validation, more freedom, quote, freedom, right. In being a decision maker, let’s say in the workplace. And, uh, and so it’s the same, it’s the same thing in a slightly different costume, you know, and I know for me, I clawed my way as high up as I could, as I could day after day after day and work, because I believed that was the way that I was going to find freedom and peace. That one day I would get to a level where I no longer needed to struggle. And like, we all, like, we know, like that’s, that’s ludicrous, that’s false. It’s illusion. It’s a lovely, lovely fantasy it’s mythology.
Speaker 2 00:19:02 Right? I think you’ve, you’ve, you’ve flipped it really well. The success cannot be gained externally. It, you can’t buy it. You can’t, it sounds cliche. You can’t buy it. You can’t measure it by how many followers you have on Instagram or how many people, um, think you’re the, you know, you’re great. It, those are all outside measurements. It really has to be a peace that passes all understanding the same heart, regardless of circumstances. And you can’t get that from just the outside. Whereas in the most that we have to integrate, we have to live in this outside world, but to be dominated by what success says by that, it has to be an inner journey. And we have to transform ourselves on an interior set. What’s interesting to me, as you’re speaking is that during COVID this last year, the number of people who have a kind of close to my age, a lot, mainly men, because most of my clients have been women for coaching.

Speaker 2 00:19:59 But lately men closer to my age or older who have done that ladder, they have done it. They are on the, a list. They are famous people. You recognize their names in either politics or business. And they’re coming to me and saying the pandemic had them force them to look within and recognize one that they had kind of done the checklist you just described. They got the money, they got the status. They are sought after they all are there popular authors, popular speakers, whatever they wanted to be. They got all that. And as they would say to me, I don’t know my own heart. I don’t know when I asked them, like, what do you love? What are you passionate about? They cannot, yes, it was there. They, that, that, that is not, they’ve never had permission to look within. And then, you know, almost we have to talk about what they want to be as a child. You have to get to who they really are. And, um, this, the sermon on the Mount is basically saying focus on that inner journey. Um, this outward stuff, it, you’re gonna be told this a success you’re gonna be told. This will be achievement. There is certain gratification through the whole process, but you’re going to end up empty. If that’s all that you do.
Speaker 1 00:21:17 I see an additional facet to this, which it’s all part of the same coin. Um, but in the 12 step community where I am, you know, where I’m a part of that, um, there something called the, uh, the 10th step promises and one of the 10 step promises. My favorite is we have ceased fighting anyone or anything. And when you think about the concept of we have ceased fighting anyone or anything, it’s easy to dismiss this as impractical because, well, what if there’s a war? What if there is? What if someone walks up to the street and tries to take, you know, to steal my bag? What do I do? You know? Well, the beatitudes talk a lot at, to be attitudes. The sermon on the Mount talks a lot about stopping, fighting. And even in what we just read with the beatitudes, it says, you know, uh, blessed are the meek, right?
Speaker 1 00:22:12 People who are not, uh, bold and are not, uh, asserting themselves in front of crowds, blessing are the merciful. The people who are not seeking revenge and, uh, in vengeance and all of that blessed are the peacemakers, right? Well, in order to make peace, it means you, you, you can’t engage in the fight that’s brought to your doorstep. Um, blessed are those who are persecuted blessed. Are you? When people insult you persecute, you say evil against you. So it doesn’t say, bless it. Or those who justly defend themselves. That’s not what it says. It says blessed are those who rise above the struggle and see things from a higher perspective. Blessed are those who understand that this earth world is it’s a learning ground for your soul. It and rise above it. See it from 10,000 feet and realize that when someone hurts you, they’re in pain. And how about finding a place of mercy for the pain they’re in, that causes them to lash out and to hurt others. And to say, they’re not doing this because of me. I’m not even a part of this. They don’t know how else to soothe the burning pain inside their spirit, other than to do this. And I hope they find a way to do that. You know, that for me is what it stirs in my heart. When I read about it. It’s,
Speaker 2 00:23:44 It’s very hearing you talk about it. Cause I can see, you can almost see the spiritual enter the energy and inner life and the work you’ve been doing in your own life. And it’s just coming, right. It’s it’s there it’s, it’s it’s then
Speaker 1 00:23:56 Don’t let him I’m sweating right now. And don’t confuse
Speaker 2 00:23:58 Any of that with not being powerful, because what you just said was very powerful. It’s just that for all the things you just described, they are only accomplished when you’re at peace within yourself, it cannot be accomplished by being at war with others and at war with yourself. It’s the state of being that the, the ability to get to those goals, and those are goals to be meek and a situation where you want to brag, or when you’re, um, being merciful, particularly refer, not wanting to engage in revenge. Those are all, um, spiritual disciplines. And as I say, my own life, I work on all of those. I think when I see the change taking place in my life, when I don’t hold a grudge anymore, when I can see that, actually everybody I’m engaging with is a child of God. And if you want to get really mystical about it, part of me, we’re all part of the same.

Speaker 2 00:24:50 That’s right. Um, I’m, I’m, I’m talking, I’m talking to, uh, you know, part of the creation, I’m part of the creation as is the trees, the woods, the forest. Um, so we’re all part of this. So, um, this is a child of God that God loves us as much as God loves me. And I’ve now projected all this onto them. Um, I will add, I just to be clear because I get this question from women a lot, um, you know, does, does that require you to, uh, stay in abusive relationships? So I just want to be point blank. No, of course, no. Um, we’re we, we, we should not, and that has been manipulated. The texts of this have been used manipulatively by religious leaders to keep women in abusive situations and so forth and say, Hey, look, the husband submit yourself to your husband. So I just want to be super clear that that’s not what it’s saying. It’s but it is talking about a state of being yes. And deal with, uh, frankly you’re dealing with evil or, um, you know, challenges.
Speaker 1 00:25:49 Yes. And, uh, I, I’m glad that you mentioned that because, um, when I talk, when I’ve talked with people, I gave a, I gave a workshop on, um, what does it mean to stop fighting in a practical sense? And, you know, we’ve just gone through a very volatile election. I mean like any election isn’t volatile, but we went through a really raw election and people are saying, what do you mean? I’m not supposed to fight. I’m watching, I’m watching an attack on the people who can’t defend themselves. It’s my role and my responsibility to step up and fight for them. And my challenge to that is calling your Congressman is not fighting. Voting is not fighting, but when you engage another person where your goal is to have them submit to your point of view, that’s fighting, that’s different than flexing the power. That naturally is yours as a part of this system.
Speaker 1 00:26:50 You know, it’s about, to me, it’s about ego. Does my ego get brought into this argument? Or can I simply explain my perspective and unattached from what the other person says back? You know, because that’s the difference to me between fighting and, um, taking care of yourself if someone hits me. Okay. Th the challenge is, uh, do I, do I walk away and not care that some people might see me as a coward or, uh, does my ego flare up and require me to be seen as equal to, or greater than the person who hit me. Right. And the fact is it’s, it’s mythology, right? It’s only my ego that wants to feel like I wasn’t a sucker, right. I’ve already been punched. That’s over. Do I get punched in again? Or do I walk away? You know, um, because I have the ability to fight or to simply defend myself in another way, which is to remove myself from the situation. And I don’t mean to simplify situations like abusive marriages or anything. I’m talking more along, uh, in more general terms. Um, but there is, in my view, a guidance in these words that says, uh, is there a way to take care of yourself that involves avoiding causing another person to submit?
Speaker 2 00:28:18 Yeah, the reason I do the, uh, the public policy work and the political work is I’m very worried about the fact that we’ve lost that in our political culture. So now, um, the idea has traditionally been well. We want to get people to agree with us. That’s not the goal of a pluralistic country. It’s basically to say you and I disagree. And, um, we disagree strongly, and I believe the tax code should be this. You believe it should be that. I believe that we should have tariffs. You don’t, I believe this on immigration. You believe that, but I can still love you. That’s what’s missing. What we’ve done is now said that those political views that you hold, um, are evil and it’s really a form of puritanical religion. That’s come back into the culture again, where now you’re a heretic. Uh, I, and I must, if you’re evil, um, I have no choice, but to be violent against you.

Speaker 2 00:29:12 Yeah. Cause I must subdue evil. And if that violence means canceling you at your job, um, getting you fired, getting you publicly humiliated, I’ll start there. But if it also means, uh, physically physical violence, that’s okay because I’m doing it for good. And that’s a very, very dangerous energy that could rip everything apart in this country. And of course it manifested itself, um, most dramatically on January 6th when it was unbelievable. We had an insurrection at our Capitol, which I, you know, many of us couldn’t have imagined in our lifetime. And so we’re, we, we have the choice to descend down that spiral down where we can have people like you, who are doing what you’re doing and the leadership you’re providing to a new generation and talking about love, compassion, forgiveness, and notice. It’s not agreement agreement. It is not about agreeing no thing. I completely disagree with you on this. And I love you to death and we have to get that back or we’re going to be in big trouble.
Speaker 1 00:30:18 Yeah. And you know, in the sermon on the Mount Jesus doubles down on this, just a few verses later, when we get to, let me see, I’ll tell you, um, Matthew chapter five, verse 38 to 42, uh, Jesus says, do, do, do, do you have heard it was said, I for an eye and tooth for a tooth, but I tell you do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them, the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to Sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. And then on verse 43, you have heard it was said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your father in heaven. He causes his son to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Speaker 1 00:31:14 And there’s this just weaves so beautifully through so much of what we’ve already said. I’ve also, I’ve often been confused by, um, by verse 40, which says, if someone takes your shirt, give them your coat too, am like, what does that even mean? But on this spiritual journey that I’ve had over the past couple of years, like, it’s like, it’s so clear to me. And it comes back to if someone hurts you, whether they steal, they disrespect, they, they hit whatever they are in pain. And they will go through their own journey of eventual healing from the pain. Uh, and they have their own karma and they have their own suffering that they’re dealing with. And if you can just recognize that the depth of the suffering that causes them to hurt you, then you can say, take it, take it. Because by doing that, you are not adding to their suffering. They’re going to have to pay for what they’re doing on a different level, on soul, on a soul level. And all we can do is say, wow, that person is in pain. You know, and that message to me, it just blares out in neon lights now.
Speaker 2 00:32:34 Yeah. What you’ve developed Johnny, which is, I would say SPE, a spiritually of person is deep empathy. The ability to be in another person’s shoes, our natural tendency is to be selfish. We are the heroes of our own story. Our stories about us, everything that bad has happened has been done against us by evil forces, everything good in our life is the good things we’ve done. Anything we’ve done wrong is because we were forced to do it. And we were punished. You’re saying actually, no, get into the other person’s shoes. No, they might be wounded. As we all are know that they could be in great pain. No, that they, um, are, uh, not necessarily evolved that they’re focused on, you know, on, uh, different needs. And if you can rise above it and you can truly put yourself in their shoes, that’s truly loving the other person.
Speaker 2 00:33:27 Yes. That’s the compassion that you’re, that you’re showing and that we would want to develop what Jesus is also trying to say to the religious establishment. And it would be true today. It, transactional relationships are, uh, are not what it is to follow him. He’s saying it’s not about just loving your tribe. And then your family, he even has a passage where he says, even the devil does that. Um, he’s like even the dark forces will do that. It’s really, it’s only when you can get outside of yourself and your so-called enemy and seeing the people that you hate, um, and getting that hatred out of your life. A good personification of all this Johnny and in modern life he’s overused, but, but under red is, is, uh, Reverend Martin Luther king Jr. Is the personification of that, those skills. And he’s become somewhat less popular in the current moment because people say that he was weak and that his positions were weak, particularly on non-violence. And, um, again, he, he strikes me as a very powerful force, someone really trying to live in for, for whatever reason, the last line, I just read his letter from a Birmingham jail last night. And he’s saying to the, to his, his clergy who are criticizing him for being, uh, doing what he’s doing, he’s, he’s challenging them to do exactly what as you’re asking us to think today. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:34:53 Oh, I love it. I’m like, my energy is like buzzing. I’m just like, like I can’t even control it. Uh it’s it’s it’s this is such a powerful conversation right now. Um, all right. Let’s keep charging forward. Another part of the sermon on the Mount and this one I really love because, uh, right now in my life, um, it applies very much to the path I’ve chosen. Um, it applies to a way of living that I would have never sanctioned, never sanctioned in, in all my years until now. Um, it’s the idea of not stockpiling resources for, uh, for the future, and there’s a whole spectrum of ways to apply this. And so I certainly don’t mean to imply that my personal path is the right path for others. Um, but this passage is another one that has stood out to me as, um, comforting guidance for me.
Speaker 1 00:36:00 And this is chapter seven chapter. I think it’s chapter seven, verse 25. It might be chapter six, but I think it’s chapter seven. Therefore I tell you do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink or about your body. What you will wear is not life more than food and the body more than clothes. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or store away in barns. And yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they can, any one of you by worrying at a single hour to your life, and then skipping down to verse 34 at the end of this particular section, therefore do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

And I, um, you know, I cashed out my 401ks to be able to take the journey that I’m taking right now.
Speaker 1 00:37:02 And, um, I’ve never once heard anyone say, oh yeah, it’s okay to cash out your 401ks. You know, and I can’t say that it was a comfortable decision. It’s not something I did joyfully. Um, but ultimately I was able to make this decision because I know that as my resources, ebb and flow, no matter how high or how low they get in each moment, I will know what to do and what to do may mean going get a second job at Starbucks, what to do may mean, um, you know, uh, getting a cheaper place to live or selling my car to pay off bills. Um, but those are all valid ways to make it through. And, uh, it’s just to me, this has been so comforting and I know that you gave a sermon on this. I remember I remember it, um, maybe in early 2020, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on what is the practicality of this idea of stop worrying about tomorrow?
Speaker 2 00:38:13 Well, the obvious thing there is the worrying. It doesn’t add anything. It adds stress. And so we’re a con work a nation, for example, in the state of worry, to the point where our mental health and our use of psychotropic drugs to deal with it is skyrocketed. And so, so no one can say, you know, I worried about this now, can you be concerned about your future and kind of plan for your future? Absolutely. You should. Um, it’s different for everybody. I would. What what’s interesting about your life and to the extent that I know your life is that you made some very big decisions in your relatively young life, that run counter to the advice that we all get. You were, you were working for a respected corporation. You’re supposed to work your way up, fill your 401k. Um, I don’t know you all that well, but I’ll say I’ll take a guess that it had, you continued on the path of that you were told to be on.
Speaker 2 00:39:10 Um, you might not even live to be an older person. So we’re talking about physical life and death. You made a dramatic change. It was bold. It is be attitudes. Jesus’ sermon on the mountain. Bold, you flipped the complete narrative, everything that you were told, I would argue did it, would it, you know, that that kind of stuff saves your soul in your life, maybe even saved your life. And now, um, we’re just really seeing the beginning of all the people you’re helping through your coaching and strategy that you’re providing to a whole new generation. You’re going to be a real to people because you’re doing what they want to do. And they know their inner voice is saying, and I’m sure you hear this all the time from clients. I want to get out of here. There’s no way out. This is how much the rent is.
Speaker 2 00:39:58 This is how much the car payment is. This is how much Starbucks costs this. There is no way out I am stuck. I hate it. And I’m worried I’m in a constant state of worrying about tomorrow and what’s so beautiful in your life is you’ve taken it. Um, but I would say you’re an example of saving a life and then saving many lives by being that model when we met that’s what was, that’s what drew me to you. It’s, there’s a charisma. There there’s a, an energy there of someone who is saying, um, I don’t have it all figured out, but I’m going to take some bold moves because I know if I stay on this path, this is what the world says. That is success. That that is not going to work for me. And how you figured that out. I guess that would be my question for you as like, from a coaching question. What was that moment where you said this narrative that I’m on, this is, this is not the path. This is not going to work because, so if you can do that.
Speaker 1 00:41:00 So, um, well, what happened to me was, um, I felt, I felt trapped by my career, like you mentioned earlier, and there was no, uh, in my view, there was no financially feasible way to get out. And so my plan was that I was going to, uh, join the Navy as an officer. It’s something that I wanted to do when I was young, but I was gay. And, uh, and there was just no way that I felt that, uh, I didn’t feel like it was the right move for me. And as a culture has shifted as my reliance on the acceptance of others has shifted. I, and as my confidence and my authority in life and my expertise in what I do has grown, I felt like I had the tools that I could not only go through it, but do it well. So I got about halfway through the process of, uh, of starting, um, uh, officer candidate school.
Speaker 1 00:41:59 And I found like my references and I took the test, the oar and all of that. And, um, I started, uh, binge eating again. Now I had a rather dramatic past with compulsive eating and, um, I gained weight and I couldn’t stop. And I worked on this. It, it, it, when I talked to the recruiter, he said, listen, if you still want to come in, you can, but you’re going to have a very unpleasant asterisk next to your name. And they will do what you can’t do for you. And I don’t recommend it. It’s very unpleasant. And you’re going to get unwanted attention from your commanding officers and whatever, until you get down to where they want you to be, as far as weight and physical health. And I was like, well, that doesn’t sound good. I’m not going to do that. So I kept trying and trying and trying, and for two, I even quit my job.

Speaker 1 00:42:55 I quit my job because I was only a few months away and I started to balloon up and, um, for two years I got help. I, uh, I dug deeper into recovery. I was seeing a therapist, I hired a personal trainer. I did everything and I still gained weight more and more and more. And after two years of beating my head against a rock, I felt utterly hopeless. And I had by then taken another job in HR because I didn’t know what else to do. And, um, and I was like, what am I going to do? This was my way out. Well, uh, in the recovery fellowship that I was in, um, someone said, it sounds like there’s a spiritual problem there. And, uh, and so this unlocked a path it started with just Googling podcasts to help me build a relationship with a higher power.
Speaker 1 00:43:58 I didn’t know how to do that. I started doing that, which led me to books, which led me to podcasts, which led me to Oprah SuperSoul conversations, which blew the doors open. As I heard all of these spiritual thought leaders talk about how they develop this path. And, um, it’s through that process that I just had a massive paradigm shift and awakening. And I started to see, um, I started to see that my life was built on this physical struggle rather than on this, um, spiritual flow. And, uh, and that’s, that’s, what’s, that’s w that’s where I’ve been for these past three years is learning how to catch these waves and surf this spiritual flow. And I just, um, I’m so grateful that something stepped in and stopped me from being on that path and being an eight year commitment to be a Naval officer, which I’m sure would have had its own benefits, but, um, something helped me and nudged me onto a path that has given me freedom.
Speaker 1 00:45:06 I, I can say I’m happy. I can say I’m happy rich. It’s the first time in my life. It’s the first time in my whole life that I can honestly say that I’m happy. And I just feel taken care of. I feel taken care of, and I just never felt taken care of. I felt like it was my job to take care of myself as if I could make myself draw one breath as if I could give myself a job as if I could give myself the ability to do anything. All of that illusion of control has been washed away. And now, um, I get what flows before me, like I receive what flows before me and that’s it. And it’s, uh, and it causes me to see things like the scriptures in a different way now.

Speaker 2 00:45:52 Wow, that’s beautiful. You are a personification really of the sermon on the Mount, which is flipping all the stories. And, uh, I do find that would be interesting if I was, if I was curious, like you were, what was interesting in your story is one. You didn’t say like I became a Christian or I became a Mormon and I became a Pentecostal. You, you open yourself up to the spirit. The spirit will guide you where you are. It you do not need to join a religion or give a name to it. The forces of good. I, I would, I would call them angels. That will sound weird to a lot of people, but I think they’re ready to work for you. They want to help steer you and guide you and nudge you. And I will say in my own life, very similar stories where I was pushed and shoved and, um, high doorways close to me, very perfectly to get back on the right path.
Speaker 2 00:46:43 It was almost like a GPS system is like, well, take a left turn at the next light, take a left turn. You turn. But I kept going on the path. Cause I, you know, um, you know, I thought that was the path. And, uh, but I knew it wasn’t and, uh, we get steered back. If we ask, if we just ask whatever you believe that forces in the universe, um, whatever name you give to it, it’s not so important, but there are good forces that want to steer us toward. Good. What I love most about your stories? You, you summarize it by saying, um, I’m at peace. I’m at peace with myself. To me, that’s the sermon on the Mount. It’s not, it’s, it’s being at peace. It’s being calm. People hire me as a coach and they say, I’m going to pay you a lot of money.
Speaker 2 00:47:29 Get me calm, you know, get, how do I get peace? I want to be like, and I always like, you’re not going to be like me. Yeah, you’re going to be you. But it’s going to take us a while to figure out who you are because it’s, it’s clouded and all these other, uh, false labels that you’ve accumulated. So it’s, it’s amazing at your, you know, at your young age that this all became so clear to you, what I’m sure you found also was all the people who naysayers you, really, what they wanted was what was best for you. Anybody who cared about you, they, but now that they see that when you say I’m happier than I’ve ever been, they’re like, well, that’s what we always wanted for him. Well, they did that. They just, they bought into, this is the, the, the, these are the five things he’s got to do.
Speaker 2 00:48:15 Yeah. And they’re almost like rules of life. If you don’t have the 401k and you don’t have this, that and the other. And, um, I won’t, I will, I will summarize it by saying, I will not be surprised that you will have enough money to retire. Yeah. That was contrary to what we’re talking about, but it is an interesting how the energy and the flow and your coaching practice and your, your teaching will multiply and grow, and you’re going to have a larger impact and people will be happy to, uh, to, to pay you for that. And we live in a material world and we have to get paid. And so we do it, but it’s not the focus. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:48:49 Yeah. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Rich, if people are interested in visiting, uh, visiting your church or understanding more about the Swedenborgian denomination, how can they find either information on that? Or how can they find your specific church? I don’t even know because I’m in Maine right now. I don’t even know if you are having physical services or not. So give us some information on that. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:49:15 Uh, we have been doing services on zoom since a year ago and, uh, and we’re going to start a hybrid, but, um, we have people from all over the country and the world. Now we have somebody from London. Uh, so that’s five o’clock on Sundays. And, um, uh, the information is on the website, holy city, dc.org. If anybody was specifically interested, they could just email me at my name, rich ta***@***il.com. And I can point them in the right direction to get connected to whatever it is. Um, it’s a nascent group and we’re trying to grow something, a different type of spirituality in the world, and we’d be happy for anybody who’s interested.
Speaker 1 00:49:50 Okay. All right. Perfect. And that’s, Tafel T a F E L, right?
Speaker 2 00:49:53 Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:49:55 All right. Perfect. Well, I think that’s a good place for us to close, and I just want to say thank you for giving so freely of your time and your expertise on this and your passion as well. And, um, I think it’s helpful for me and I hope it’s helpful for the listeners too. Rich. Thank you.

Speaker 2 00:50:11 Thank you. My pleasure. There was nothing more exciting than seeing you preach the gospel to me.
Speaker 1 00:50:16 I love it. That’s great. All right, everybody, we’re going to close it. There have a wonderful day. Be good to each other, and always remember to aim your light. You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Jo****@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember- Aim Your Light.

Host Johnny Guidry is joined by Neena Perez of the Straight Talk, No Sugar Added podcast for an honest look at how eating for comfort after a tough day can become a crippling compulsion. This episode explores behaviors, causes, treatment, and and hope for people who feel stuck in a pattern of overeating.

Note: Johnny and Neena both face compulsive eating and speak to their experiences, but are not medical practitioners.

You can find Neena Perez’s podcast, Straight Talk, No Sugar Added here: https://straighttalknosugaradded.libsyn.com

For similar content, try Episode 13, Making Peace with Our Dark Side or Episode 8, From Addiction to Self-Acceptance

For more information on coaching services, visit RefractiveCoaching.com

Episode transcript via automatic software follows below; please excuse any inaccuracies in the software’s transcription.

Speaker 0 00:00:02 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you. And as long as you, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Speaker 1 00:00:46 Hi everybody, me and my friend, Nina Perez. We’re so excited to welcome you to a special collaboration of our two podcasts. So this is a really special event for us. We’re taking straight talk, no sugar added, and we’re adding some refractive to it. And we’re just going to make our own kind of a gumbo today. How are you doing Nina?
Speaker 2 00:01:09 I’m doing great. And this is so much fun. I have been looking to collaborate with you for some time, as you know, and I’m so glad we both found that time that we can do this. So this is going to be a lot of fun. And I think it’s going to be insightful too.
Speaker 1 00:01:23 Yeah. And this is a topic that I know has touched both of our lives pretty deeply. I, I know that my listeners will, will recognize the theme and I imagine yours will too.
Speaker 2 00:01:33 They will. I have another platform as well. Um, that’s called memoirs of a fat girl and that’s my health and wellness journey. So people know this about me. So this is going to be really fun. All right.
Speaker 1 00:01:46 All right. So, uh, everybody just, uh, to pull back the curtain, we are talking about compulsion’s and especially compulsive eating today and how it is so prevalent in our world. We’re taught as kids that eating for comfort is a way to cope. And, you know, I mean all the way down to that hard wiring of the brain, it feels good to nourish ourselves, right? It feels good to take care of that basic needs and it can run a muck and, and become a problem later in life. I know that was the case for me. And, uh, Nina. It was the case for you too. Would you like to talk about, um, how eating for comfort became a struggle for you?
Speaker 2 00:02:31 Yeah. Um, I mean, it’s still a struggle, right? I mean, it’s still an every day getting up, fighting it struggle. Um, so for me was I was abused as a child, so I couldn’t find comfort where I was, uh, wasn’t really being supported. So I didn’t realize that this was what I was doing as a child, but I got really addicted to sugar. So it was like sugar sandwiches and, you know, spoonfuls of sugar and candy and whatever. And I think that the hardest thing about having an addiction like food is that it’s so accessible and you need it, like you need it to survive. So, um, you know, for me, it was a way to cope with shame, um, with heartache, you know, feeling lonely. It just was, it was my, my friend.
Speaker 1 00:03:22 Yeah. You know, I mean, like if I walked down the street drinking from a bourbon bottle, you know, people are going to look, but if I walked down the street eating a burger, like nobody looks at all because it’s just, it’s so easy for compulsive eating, for eating, for comfort and pain to look normal. Right. It’s more society, it’s more accepted by society than some of the other compulsion’s,
Speaker 2 00:03:51 It’s so true. And, you know, I don’t know if you went through this, um, because I also hit it, you know? So I ate some of it in front of you. Yes. So you would think I was normal, you know, some of it in front of you, but don’t turn your back. Cause I’m out taking up stuff with me. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:04:14 Absolutely. And you know, uh, for me, um, while I wasn’t abused as a kid, uh, I grew up in a pretty conservative area and I was a gay kid. And, uh, back then in the, in the late eighties and early nineties, it just, it was just not okay. And I went to all boys schools and it was tough and I just didn’t know what to do with all of the pain and the rejection and the, the feelings that came up from that sense of emotional isolation and just like you, I, I ate. And then I hid when I ate the extra, I remember in college, I had a job at this restaurant and I took a piece of cheesecake in a to go box. And I went into the bathroom and sat in a stall in ADA, in the bathroom, like in the room.
Speaker 2 00:05:09 I totally get that. I totally get that. It’s so cool.
Speaker 1 00:05:14 Crazy. Like, I can’t even, you know, people who haven’t gone through, what we’re going through, can’t even understand how you do that. You know?
Speaker 2 00:05:25 I know. And, and what you’re saying, I can’t even see myself doing that. I totally relate. And I’m a chef by trade. Right. So I didn’t even realize that. Yeah. I, I, I’m an executive chef. I’m a director of a culinary operation. That’s what I do now. And so I’m around food quite a bit and good food. Cause we do a lot of farm to table and everything is from scratch and everything is delicious. And it’s like, yeah, I always have to control myself. I always have to be like, okay. Yep. I’m going downstairs to my office. And I leave because I have to remove myself. Yes. And I still fail. There’s days I fail, you know, like my, my son, my son was like, mom, where’s all the Reese’s peanut butter cups. I’m like, well, you left them there. I literally tire bag. He’s like, really? I’m like, really, because I have a compulsion. Right. So if I eat one and there’s three and four, I got to eat the three and four. It’s like, yeah. You know, it’s, it’s a daily struggle still.
Speaker 1 00:06:24 So before we go into the meat of this, where we talk about the role of pain and how, uh, you know, we use these compulsion’s to deal with it. Um, I want to mention kind of like my, uh, uh, bottom in the recovery community, we call it the bottom. Right. So, uh, were eating to mask. That pain led me. I, uh, ended up, um, in my early thirties at 400 and twenty-five pounds. And I had gotten to the point, I had been a corporate trainer and I got to the point where by standing in front of a room all day, facilitating, when I finished for the day, my feet would like throb and they would be huge and swollen. Um, and I had varicose veins and all of this. And, um, I would finish the day in order to room service, dinners, and things like that.
Speaker 1 00:07:21 And sit in my hotel and eat it. Um, I was on five prescriptions and including three blood pressure medicines, I was strapped to a C-PAP machine. Um, and I traveled for my job and I would get into those airplanes and God bless whoever had to sit next to me because I was taken up half of their seat, no matter what. And, uh, that was the life that I built for myself by using food to handle my pain. Um, until the day I was desperate enough to learn, to start processing the pain in a different way. Um, what was it like for you?
Speaker 2 00:08:00 You know, sometimes I wonder I get frustrated cause I wonder sometimes if I even hit the bottom yet, you know, because it’s still such a struggle. Um, but for me was I was having severe amounts of pain throughout my whole body. So I think the highest I reached is maybe close to two 60 and I’m only five, two. So there you go. Right. So, um, same thing with me, I would, I have the, the, you know, they give you that airplane belt extension that doesn’t really extend, you know, I was like, I still can’t clip this. This is a problem. So I was having pain throughout my entire body and I thought I had, um, you know, I went through like four different doctors. Nobody could figure it out. They thought I had lupus lines, disease, all that stuff. It ended up being that I, my body was rejecting certain things.
Speaker 2 00:08:48 I was eating, I was becoming intolerant because I was having in consuming so much of it. So like blue in a dairy, you know, things like that. My body was like, okay, that’s enough. And that’s what happened. Like my, my joints in my body were kind of breaking down and fighting against itself and I’m like, I have to do something I’m, pre-diabetic, I’m about to start on cholesterol, medication, diabetes, medication, like something has to change. Um, but honestly, Johnny, sometimes I feel like frustrated cause I’m like, did I hit bottom yet? Because sometimes I still struggle. And I guess maybe I’ll struggle with it all my life. Right, right. But there is a fear of going back up. I mean, I haven’t lost a lot, but there is definitely a fear I still have about 70 so pounds to lose. Um, and it’s a daily, daily fight. It’s a daily fight. So I got to get up with that mindset. Always, you can do this. Today’s a new day. You can do this.
Speaker 1 00:09:45 Yes, absolutely. It’s the same for me. In fact, last night I had, uh, two huge bowls of oatmeal before bed. I was hungry. It was like one, I just couldn’t do it. I had to make a second bowl and you know, I’m grateful it was oatmeal, you know, cause there’s the time of my life, where it had been two pizzas or two cakes, two things, ice cream, you know? So yeah. So, you know, when you and I were kind of, co-designing this episode, we talked about how, um, pain is actually a gift. Um, the reason we get a toothache is because there’s something that needs to be taken care of before it causes too much damage. And you know, we have this emotional pain that we go through and uh, you know, in our society we shove it down and we cover it with liquor or food or gambling or sex or work or cleaning the house or codependency or whatever it is. And so how do you think this emotional and mental pain that we have is actually helpful?
Speaker 2 00:10:54 I think that if you’re going to do work on yourself, like self care and really look at yourself, you need to have the pain points because otherwise you’re not paying attention, you know? Um, for me, right. It was depression, anxiety, right. That was my paint. Those were my pain points. And so I had to start changing my mindset and I only knew that those things were happening because I started to experience those things. Right. So as depression started to become a thing where I wouldn’t get out of bed and that kind of stuff, or I was in a room and I thought I was like gonna, you know, drown with like this anxiety. I realized, okay, something’s going on here? How do we deal with this? And that’s what I started doing is trying to work on myself, doing self care, looking at it in the eye and figuring out what it is. A lot of it, believe it or not came from, uh, unforgiveness. Yeah. You know, it came from that pain, you know, from what happened to me as a child and, and my life, my past. And then I’m like, you know, I have to deal with these issues. So to answer your question, that’s what it did, the depression and stuff. Being the pain point. I had to start taking care of myself. I couldn’t ignore it anymore.
Speaker 1 00:12:07 Yeah, that’s right, man.
Speaker 2 00:12:09 A whole box of Krispy Kreme donuts by myself, by myself. And especially if they’re warm
Speaker 1 00:12:18 Amateur, amateur, I would go to Buka to Beppo. Okay. You know, the family style restaurant on Friday at the end of the work week. And I would get to catering trays of pasta and have a cake. And that was my, that was my Friday night and the half that carb load. Oh my God. It would, uh, by the end of eating all of that in the period of like 20 minutes, um, my body would like shut down. I would just pass out the fat, the sugar, the carbs. I couldn’t handle it. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:12:54 So 20 minutes. So you’re a fast eater as well. Yeah. Cause I can eat.
Speaker 1 00:13:00 Oh yeah. It was a spectacle. It was a spectacle. And you know, like you mentioned, I find, you know, that pain, that pain is like a check engine light. And um, you can’t go out because, you know, for some people going through a death of a loved one or going through being fired or going through whatever, it’s just a part of life. And for other people, it spirals them into just something deeper. And, um, a good measurement for me was if I’m doing something I don’t want to do, right. I don’t want to eat until it hurts my body. I don’t want to eat until it shuts me down from chemical overload, but I was doing it and I couldn’t not do it. And there’s the there’s there’s the, the test for me is something is that’s the check engine light is something. So out of control is something so painful that I’m doing something I don’t want to do in can’t style. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:58 And it becomes something like, it’s like this love, hate thing. Right? It’s like, you do it, you hate that you do it, but you almost like love to do it. It’s like this weird thing. And then after you do it, and I dunno if that’s the way you feel, but I always feel so angry with myself that I let myself go there. You know, again, you know, like again, you know, so this is vicious, a self-sabotaging behavior, you know? And that’s what I think what I’m trying to figure out right. Is why do I keep self-sabotaging? You know, why don’t, I think I’m valuable enough to not keep sabotaging myself because I would never let you do that. If you were with me, I wouldn’t let you do that. You know, in my language. Yeah. Yeah. So I don’t know why we do that to ourselves. And I know we’re not alone in this. No. And
Speaker 1 00:14:52 You know, that was, um, that was the turning point for me. I was in, um, a drive-thru and it was the fourth drive-thru I went to in a row. There were, there were four fast food places next to each other. And, um, and as I was ordering five, six, seven items from each place, there was this, I remember, um, this inner voice that was like yelling. It’s like, why are you hurting yourself? Stop? And I ordered another thing and it’s like, why, why stop? Don’t you’re hurting yourself. And I ordered another thing and I’m eating from the last place I went to while I’m ordering the next thing. And you know, maybe not everybody listening has gone through those extremes that you and I are talking about, but any time we are doing something that is not good for our life. Right. Despite the fact that we don’t want to do it, it deserves attention, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:51 Yeah. I mean, and you’re right. I mean it, and I think you mentioned this earlier, too, it doesn’t have to be food. Right. It could be anything, right. People get addicted to opioids and they didn’t even realize they were addicted. Right. They just, you know, and I don’t know if you went through this as well or go through this. I always used to have that mentality. I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. And then tomorrow is 20 years later and I’m still doing it tomorrow, you know? And I still didn’t get my life together. And it’s like, now I am 48 years old and you know, 70, 80 pounds overweight. And I’m just like, okay, are we still gonna wait for tomorrow? Cause you’ve been waiting for 20 years, girlfriend. I don’t think it’s coming. You know, it’s some point you just have to begin.
Speaker 1 00:16:36 Yeah. You know, that’s why those were recovery programs they just for today because they know tomorrow never comes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:44 Isn’t that true? You’ll always, I think, I don’t know if everybody’s brain works like that. I just know that for me, you know, I, I make jokes about this on my show, on my other podcast. I’m always like, listen, I’m a fat girl. Let me tell you how fat girls think. You know, I said, I always wait until the first or the first of the week or the next day or the beginning of the year. Yeah. Yeah. That’s when, you know, instead of starting, like you just mentioned today, just starting today.
Speaker 1 00:17:12 That’s right. You know, um, one of, some of the notes that you and I were talking about that I, I think are so rich, you mentioned just earlier about why am I sabotaging myself? And you know, there’s so much around self-worth and, uh, boundaries and codependency and external validation and it just leads to this cycle of shame, you know? Um, what do you think about like, what are your thoughts on how shame applies to this? Oh man. Uh, you know, I just did
Speaker 2 00:17:50 A whole thing on shame because I realized as I’m growing up, as our wrote my book, as I’m doing all of this, that I had, that I realized there’s two types of shame, at least the way I see it. Right. It’s the shame of what people did to me. And I couldn’t do anything about it and I felt ashamed that it happened to me. Yeah. And then there’s also shame that I carried from things I’ve done, you know, things that I’ve done that I’m not proud of. And, you know, shame played a huge part in validating my, or feeling worthy, you know, because I did things that I’m ashamed of, you know? So it just makes me feel like almost like a beat up of myself. I, I was almost eating to beat myself up, even though I felt like I should be doing something better for me.
Speaker 2 00:18:37 Cause if it was like I said, if I was with you right now and you told me I’m going to go have that pizza or those two pies, I would say, absolutely not, not on my watch. Right. You know, because I would care about you and I care externally about people very much, but there’s something about, you know, just digging in and saying, you have to care about you too, girlfriend. You know, this is you’re, you’re important too. Um, so shame plays a huge part in how you feel and when you’re overweight, you’re now ashamed of being overweight. That’s the, yeah. Like, so now you’re beating yourself up for two things like the shame, your inside and your shame on how you look on the outside. So you’re pulling your shirt all the time. You’re fixing your sleeves. You’re you know, it’s, I mean, I’m sure you’ve experienced that. Right. Well, how do you feel about the shame playing a part in your
Speaker 1 00:19:27 Oh man, shame was a trigger for my eating. You know, I got to tell you if ever I had a layover, um, between flights, uh, I guarantee the first thing I went and did was found food because I was so ashamed of right, right of the seat, hurting me or taking up the space of another person and making them uncomfortable. I was just so ashamed. And anytime I had shame, if I, uh, I mean, I wasn’t dating very much by the time I got to that weight. But, um, uh, but earlier than that, when I was maybe 300 pounds and I still would go on a date from time to time, if the date didn’t go well, or if I felt I wasn’t seen as attractive enough after the date I would go eat. Right. Because shame was a trigger for me. Um, anxiety was a trigger for me. You know, anger was a trigger for Maumee too. Yeah. Oh my God. Tell me, tell me
Speaker 2 00:20:27 No. I mean, I don’t know what that is either. Right? That’s like, uh, I realized that I am an emotional eater. So I do eat when I go through emotions. If I’m very nervous. I E if I’m angry, like if somebody truly like betrayed me or pissed me off, I go eat, you know, um, if I’m bored, if I’m bored, you know, I’m like, okay, what is in the pantry? You know what I’m saying? Like, I need to find, Oh, maybe I’ll make some popcorn and do this and make that. I mean, you know, and I’m a chef, right? So if I’m bored, the first thing I’m doing is creating like these meals in my head, and then I’m out there looking for stuff, you know, I’ll even get to the point where I’m just like, you know, I’ll be back. I’m going to go to the store and get some ice cream.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 It’s like 10 o’clock at night. What am I doing? Go to the supermarket and get ice cream. You know, I don’t need that. You know, but yeah. Shame is, shame is huge and emotional eating is huge. And a lot of people don’t even realize they’re doing that. I don’t know if you do this, but I’m also sometimes a mindless eater. So I’m not even thinking, you know, I, I did an episode on how I ate an entire box and I know this is probably amateur, but I had a whole box of fig Newtons. They’re my favorites. Right. So I had this big family size pack and I put it next to me and I’m typing on the computer and I’m mindlessly eating. I get to the last one. And I’m like putting my hand in the box, like, Oh, shoot that. So my husband said, please tell me, you ate some of these guns. He goes, no, I hate fig Newtons. I’m like, Oh my gosh. I just ate a whole box by myself in one sitting.
Speaker 1 00:22:05 the sensible she just dropped. Yeah. You know? Oh my God,
Speaker 2 00:22:12 Gosh, this is real stuff. Right. I mean, so do you go through that as well? Like do you now, now that you’ve lost quite a bit of weight and you, I don’t think you mentioned how much you’ve lost, but now that you’ve lost that weight, do you find yourself sometimes going back to those old habits?
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Oh, for sure. So I am current, I am a compulsive eater. Like you said, I don’t know if that’ll ever go away. I lost 200 pounds. Um, and that was not through surgery or anything. It was through, it was through a recovery programs for compulsive eating. And, uh, and that was wonderful. But you know, like you said that you have about 70 pounds to go for me. My, my, my weight does go up and down. Um, right now I have about 80 pounds, uh, that I, I would need to lose if I got to my healthy, uh, doctor prescribed body weight. And, you know, Hey, I’m glad to be 80 pounds overweight as opposed to 200 and some odd pounds overweight. But, um, you know, I can live a normal life. I can get on a plane. I can do that. Now. I’m just a heavy guy, you know, I’m just like one of those heavy guys you see. Um, but I still, um, I still go through compulsive eating when I go to the store. Um, I need to stay away from the ice cream aisle because if I romanticize it for just a second longer than I need to, you know, I can, I can look at it for a, for a minute or two. Once I go longer than that, like I pull back, I’ve gone too far into the quicksand and I can’t get out and I’m going to, I’m going to spend $25 on junk food.
Speaker 2 00:23:54 Right. And are you a sugar addict as well? Do you like, are you like, are you more into like the, the fat and salty? Are you into more like the sweet sugar
Speaker 1 00:24:04 Sweets is my first is my first love, but I got to tell you, uh, you know, fat, fat and salty is a close second, you know,
Speaker 2 00:24:14 Sometimes combined, right. If I scribbled a little bacon on top, there you go.
Speaker 1 00:24:20 That’s right. So that’s, I’m still, I’m S I still face that. Um, I still face that, you know, I’m lucky because like my face doesn’t show it so much. So like on zoom, I’m like, Oh, look how cute I look. But, uh, you know, I still have like that. I still, I still have, uh, I’ll just say a little pear shaped going on,
Speaker 2 00:24:41 Hey, listen, you’re still 200 pounds less. Can I ask you though how you did that? Because that that’s huge. Right. So that’s an everyday battle. I’m sure that that is like getting up every day and making a decision. Right.
Speaker 1 00:24:55 So, yeah, it was, it was really through, um, through recovery. It was through recovery through 12 steps, you know, um, you know, and I, uh, it CA it came down to, um, it came down to identifying which foods and which behaviors, not just foods that I had a record of abusing. So I knew for example, that if I went through a drive-thru, even if my intention was to order a salad, even after losing a significant amount of this weight in recovery, if I went through a drive-through, there was a really good chance. Like I couldn’t escape without bingeing. Um, so I had to stop going through drive-throughs no matter what I could get out of the car and go into a subway or whatever, and I could order whatever I need, but drive throughs were off limit, you know, for a while, it was also eating in the kitchen was off limits because these were behaviors that once I started, I just knew it took a superhuman amount of strength for me to stop.
Speaker 1 00:26:16 Um, these are things I didn’t want to do, but I couldn’t stop it. Nonetheless. And then I made a list of the foods that I called them were noisy, noisy in my head. I knew that if I bought a and not all of them were unhealthy foods, um, but there were noisy foods and I just had to leave them alone. Like you said, remove your body from them. I had to say, I’m not going to buy fried food no matter what. And even if I go to somebody’s house and that’s what they served, I’m gonna have to face the courage to say, thank you so much. It looks great. And I, you know, I just can’t eat that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, uh, and so once things made that list, I had red light foods. I had yellow light foods, which, which I had a more likely record of not bingeing on, but I certainly could.
Speaker 1 00:27:08 Um, you know, and, and if, if, if anything was a red light food, no, I don’t eat dog food and I don’t eat that. You know, that’s good. My mantra, you know, I don’t cook and I don’t eat dessert. I don’t write dog food and I don’t eat pasta. I think I’m going to steal that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, for me, it’s not fun for me, dog. Food’s not good for me. And pasta is not good for me. It might be great for someone else. It’s not good for me. You know? So that’s what I would, if, if someone asks me for advice, I would say, make a list, go through, go through your whole history and make a list of what foods and behaviors feel out of control when you start them. And so just love yourself enough to say, I just won’t start it because if you don’t have to stop, and it doesn’t mean forever. It doesn’t mean forever for now. At this time in my life, I can’t buy ice cream. And am I willing to let go of ice cream, uh, for serenity, for serenity. And that means that if all my friends say, let’s go get yogurt today. It just means that I can go with them. But I know if I take one bite, I’m going to go to that one bite afterwards, and I’m going to buy ice cream. Right.
Speaker 2 00:28:30 And that’s something where you have to know your triggers. You have to know your triggers. That’s really good advice. And I’m going to take that advice. Actually, I never thought about like doing a node list and putting like the red, you know, foods like don’t touch these just don’t. I mean, that’s what I do now with like gluten, because I know gluten will, it hurts me for days and days when I take it. So I just don’t and you know, I have the same thing, Johnny. Like we went somewhere, I forgot me. And my husband went, Oh, we went to the mall and they had those soft pretzels, you know? And I’m like, Oh, let’s just get a few. Well, of course I paid the price for like four days. Right. But it’s like, why did I even do that? Like, I could have gotten something else. You know, they could’ve gotten a bowl of fruit. I could have gotten anything, but I just wanted the soft pretzels. You know what I mean? And I just, I have to do what you did. Like, I don’t eat dog food, so I don’t eat gluten or I don’t eat these. I just don’t know. That’s a, that’s a good way to look at it.
Speaker 1 00:29:27 Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like once for me, for me, I can only talk about for me. Um, once the sanity had returned to me for a period of time, then I could dip my toe in the water and, you know, uh, okay. Someone serving ice cream, um, I’m going to do a test after I eat this ice cream. Am I thinking about ice cream for the next three days? Yeah. If I am, then it’s still red light for me, you know? And that’s it. And sometimes, sometimes your, your, your list changes, you know, for me pizza, I can’t do pizza. Like even if I just have one piece of pizza, like I just can’t, I can’t, I will go back. Maybe not today, maybe two days from now. And then it’s off to the races.
Speaker 2 00:30:21 Right. And you’re, you’re talking real, you’re talking real stuff because that’s, that’s actually true. It’s almost like it just sits in the back of your head, literally talking to you every day and you can’t even get it out of your mind. Right. It’s almost like, why are we thinking about this still? You know, this is why every time I go down, down South, like whether it’s Florida or Georgia or anything, I cannot ever get Krispy Kreme donuts. Like, I’m not joking. I can literally inhale an entire dozen and probably more if you let me, you know, so when we go and, and as soon as they say, no, don’t even mention it. Don’t talk about it. You know, on top of the fact that it’s sugar, it’s also gluten and dairy, which I can’t have, you know, but I’m just like, so I don’t eat dog food. I, Tony Krispy Kreme donuts, Johnny, I’m taking it. I’m telling you
Speaker 1 00:31:12 Look, Nina. This is what I would say too. Like, can you love yourself enough to tell your family? No, no. To tell your FA you know, because Nina, have you, were you ever a smoker? Yeah. Okay. Do you still smoke? No. No. I spend 25 years. Okay. So you, but you know that if you had a cigarette today, you’d be fine. You can smoke one cigarette and they never touch it again. But then we’ll wait though. Tomorrow or three or four days from now. And you’d be like, well, I had a cigarette. It wasn’t a problem. Right. Problem. I’m fine. So the next time someone offers you a cigarette, you’re like, okay, it’s not a problem. And then during the conversation, you’re like, let me get a second one. Right. But then you’re fine. And you might go another couple of days and you’re like, see, it’s not a problem. I can take it or leave it now. But then all of a sudden you’re like, well, I don’t want to ask someone for cigarettes. Let me just buy a pack. And I can just keep
Speaker 2 00:32:08 Whoever. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:32:10 Yes. And the thing is that people look at heavy people and they think what a loser, why doesn’t this person try to like, take care of himself? What a gross, lazy person who doesn’t care about himself. But it’s not. It’s like smoking. It’s like, once you, that’s why that’s why diets don’t work for people like me. Because once I stop, once things feel like it’s not dangerous anymore. I’m like, Oh, it’s not. And then it’s not tomorrow that I fall off the truck. But all of a sudden two weeks from now, I don’t know how I ended up back where I, where I started, you know?
Speaker 2 00:32:48 Oh, you’re speaking it that’s, that’s so true. And I feel the same way. I’m glad you said that because diets don’t work for me either. I’ve had to change my whole life thinking the way I think in the way I feel about myself. Every time I started diet Johnny, I always like say it’s, I don’t know, 90 days on paleo or keto or whatever it is. I might do the 90 days. But once I hit that 90 days off, I go, yeah, you know what I’m saying? Like, I’m free now. I could do whatever. And it never worked for me. I remember way back in way back. I did Atkins, right. I lost like 65 pounds or something. I looked amazing. The minute that I got to, the thing I had to do, which was my wedding. I started eating carbs again and blew up to 85 more pounds. Like what the heck? Right. But you’re right. I mean, it’s all about like, making it completely about a lifestyle to care about yourself and not about a diet, plant diet plant. Like maybe like having some parameters would be good, but not just, I’m not just doing it for a certain amount of time. That doesn’t work for me.
Speaker 1 00:34:01 Right. And you know, I was saying I got sidetracked, but I was saying, you know, can you love yourself enough to tell your family know if your partner was an alcoholic in recovery, would you go buy a bottle of bourbon and drink it in front of your partner? Like that’s not supportive. And so if, if Nina, if your red light foods are X, Y, and Z, like it’s just a fact, the people you live with are going to have to not bring it into the house. And you know, you need to understand that I will hurt myself with this. If you bring it, do you want me to hurt myself? I can’t stop. So please love me enough to go eat your Krispy. Kremes when you’re not with me, you know, it’s not that much to ask. I don’t think we all think we’re worth it. I think a normal person should be able to handle this, and I’m not going to inconvenience my loved ones by making them suffer. Well, you know what too bad, if not suffering that you can’t bring Krispy Kremes into the house.
Speaker 2 00:35:08 Yeah. Deal with it. Exactly. And you know what another thing is, and I don’t know if you’ve ever done this, but I do, uh, you know, I have, um, you know, I have children, my husband. Okay. So what I do and I’ve had to stop doing is I buy it for them. So I buy what I really want, but not for me, for them. You know what I mean? I don’t know if that’s a way to self-soothe, you know what I mean? Like, Oh my, my husband loves Reese’s peanut butter cups. So I’ll buy him. Cause he have anything he’s he’s fine. Yeah. I’ll buy him. Reese’s peanut butter cups, but then I’m like, damn, he’s having condoms. You know? So I, I don’t know if it’s a self-soothing thing, like watching them eat these things makes me feel better. I don’t know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:51 You Nina, I don’t believe you. I think you buy those Reese’s peanut butter cups to keep that door cracked for yourself to have some restrictions.
Speaker 2 00:35:58 Oh yeah. We called you out for a second. We’re going to have to talk straight. Talk me shit. Exactly. Yeah. That’s right. But that is all that’s facts. We drop in facts. Um, because I, I do tend to start thinking about it and Oh, I know where he keeps them and you know, but I bought them. I bought them, you know? Yeah, that’s right. You’re right. I mean, I think so. I think it goes both ways. I think, yes. Our families do have to be involved in our recovery and this is really a recovery process, a daily one, a daily one, because like I said, in the beginning, we also need food to survive. So for somebody like you and I, who has, uh, eating problems, eating disorders, compulsion’s, it’s a very difficult thing to manage because it is something you do need to survive.
Speaker 2 00:36:51 You do need food. I don’t know about you, but I was also never taught on how to eat properly, you know, especially growing up. Right. So we really came from poverty and you know, my mother had like, you know, welfare and stuff like that. So we would get like a lot of sugary cereals and you know, that kind of stuff. Cause it was cheap. Right. So everything was in a camp. Exactly. It was all in cans, all in boxes. Um, she was a great cook, but it was we’re Hispanic also. So it was a lot of rice and you know, things like that. I just never learned how to eat. Right. And so I found a lot of comfort in bad food, you know? So yeah. And you’re still dealing with it as an adult. Right? Johnny. I mean, you grow up 100% and you’re like, I’m an adult. I should be able to do this.
Speaker 1 00:37:34 Yeah, no, I don’t cook. I don’t cook like casseroles. I don’t cook. I can’t, they call me there in the refrigerator like Johnny,
Speaker 2 00:37:44 Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. That’s real
Speaker 1 00:37:47 Cool for you to just eat me while you watch TV.
Speaker 2 00:37:50 Right, right, right. You worked hard, you worked hard.
Speaker 1 00:37:53 Yeah. Yeah. There are things I can’t do. And you know, um, we talked about, uh, kind of some what to do if eating is a problem and, and a couple of intensities, do you, um, do you have the notes on that? Do you want to cover some of those points?
Speaker 2 00:38:10 Yeah. If eating is a problem, like we were talking about, um, um, mindfulness is the most effective self-defense right. The most effect. And I agree with that and I know you are, um, really big on this as well. So I’d love you to touch on this. So how do you incorporate mindfulness into like this daily struggle? How do you do that? That’s right.
Speaker 1 00:38:33 So one of the tenants of like my, uh, you know, I I’m, I’m a coach and I have a coaching practice and like one of my tenants is you already know, you already are like these, this is a deep truth for me. And it’s because we have all of them science and knowledge, we need built into us. It’s hardwired in us. But the thing is that when you stop listening to it, it gets quieter and quieter and quieter. So the process of like being aware of what’s happening right now allows me to know, am I really hungry? Like, wait, wait, wait. Because sometimes hunger and let’s say a shame trigger or an anger trigger or an anxiety trigger feels similar. So it takes a minute to say, am I really hungry right now? Or am I just upset? Yeah. You know? And so that mindfulness of coming into the present moment and examining the moment that is so valuable.
Speaker 2 00:39:36 So good. Do you use that in conjunction to also walk away from a meal? Like, like say something’s in front of you and you’re like upset about something or do you also say, okay, hold on and walk away for a second to think,
Speaker 1 00:39:51 Oh, that is difficult beyond measure, like, you know, to leave something on the plate and it’s really hard. Um, I can’t say that I haven’t done that. Yes I have. But what I try to do is apply mindfulness into serve, serving my plate. Um, because once it’s on the plate, I just, it’s almost unthinkable to leave, to leave four beans on the plate. There’s just no way, like, you know,
Speaker 2 00:40:21 Do you think that’s an, do you think that’s part of the upbringing, like cleaning your place?
Speaker 1 00:40:25 I think a lot. I think, I think for the, for, I think it, yeah, I think that there’s definitely a cultural aspect to that. Um, but for me, I think it’s less cultural. I, I hear a lot of people say that it’s like, they were raised in a situation where if you wasted food, like it was a big mine.
Speaker 2 00:40:46 It’s a huge deal. Yeah. Yeah. And so I find myself doing the same thing. I find myself cleaning my plate, nothing gets thrown out and I’m a chef. Right. And I work in a place where we, my kitchen is about sustainability. So we use everything. We, you know, we grow our own garden, you know, all of that stuff. Right. So, um, it’s a phenomenal way to be. But it also, as a person who gets triggered, right. When something’s on my plate, it has to be eaten. So sometimes I’ll serve myself a smaller plate, but you know, what I don’t do all the time is sit down after I VE in that and say, is this enough?
Speaker 1 00:41:22 Oh, that’s so helpful. You
Speaker 2 00:41:24 Know? Yeah. Like I, you know, you, you served yourself what a normal person would eat. Are you okay right now? Because sometimes I won’t think it, cause I’m a fast eater, so I eat really fast. And then of course it’s not even true. The single didn’t even go up to the brain yet to say you’re full. Yeah. I’ll go get myself that second plate now I’m overfull. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. So you know what I’m talking about
Speaker 1 00:41:49 For sure. And you know, like we talked, we mentioned earlier that not everybody goes to, has the same extreme relationship with food that you and I have experienced. Right. You know? And so, um, for those listeners who just can’t quite relate to this, um, you know, I think that eating for comfort from time to time is normal. Part of our experience in society, the same way that some people, when they have a hard day, sit down with a glass of wine or two, like that’s, that’s normal. Like that’s typical and that’s fine. You know, if, if, if you’re upset and you find yourself eating a half, half of a pint of ice cream, uh, you know, like that’s fine. You know, but when it becomes you doing things you don’t want to do, that’s the, that’s the difference here. So, you know, I recommend for people who find themselves occasionally, uh, eating in a compulsive way, those are the people that I think diets really help or having an accountability buddy. Um, because shame, we talked about shame, shame lives in darkness. Yes it does. When you shine light on shame, it evaporates. And so calling someone and saying, listen, best friend. I really feel like I want to eat a pint of ice cream right now. And I know that it’s not good for me. And will you just tell me that it’s okay and that I don’t need to eat that. Having someone else say, yeah, we’ve all been there and it doesn’t sound good for you. Right? Like that is powerful. It is because the shame evaporates.
Speaker 2 00:43:30 Right. But you need the right people to Johnny because some people will go ahead, girls just here’s just for today. It’s only that pint of ice.
Speaker 3 00:43:39 Okay. When you’re like, no, that’s not what I need. No, no. You have to set them up in advance. You have to set up that. Right. Right.
Speaker 1 00:43:45 Good point. I’m glad you said that. Cause I forgot that. Yeah. You definitely need to say when I call you, because food is a pattern for, you know, food is a problem for me. I really need you to speak to me from a place of balance.
Speaker 2 00:43:58 Yeah. Yeah. It’s like I told my husband, I said, honey, sometimes I think you love me to death. I think you’re loving me to death. And he goes, what do you mean? I’m like, you’re always wanting. Cause he always wants to make sure I’m comfortable. I’m comforted. Right. So he’ll bring stuff home that he’s not supposed to. And I’m like, I cannot eat. Okay. You’re going to kill me. I know you love me to death, but I don’t think it’s literally like, you don’t have to kill me now. You know? And he’s like, Oh, you’re so dramatic, but it’s not. I don’t think they realize that. Yes. I’m a strong person. I work hard. I have a, you know, I, I, I’m a go getter. That’s who I am. So I think don’t see too much weaknesses in me. Right. But I know that this is one of them.
Speaker 2 00:44:37 I know it is, you know, it’s is a daily struggle. And so, you know, for those of you who are listening and watching, you know, you’re not alone. If you are struggling, you are not alone and you’re not crazy either. Cause sometimes you feel like, am I crazy? What am I doing? You’re not crazy. This is something all of us go through and it’s good to have a good support system. It’s really good. And if you don’t have anyone around you, that is a support system or somebody, you know, you don’t have a big family or anything like that. Find yourself a group that can support you. That’s right. Um, right. I mean, you were talking about that earlier. I mean, you, you went through a program yourself and those are really, you know, that can be very helpful.
Speaker 1 00:45:17 Right? Exactly. Cause there’s like a whole spectrum of help out there. You know, if you’re someone who’s only occasionally out of control, get a diet and uh, you know, get an accountability, buddy. If you’re finding yourself out of control frequently, even if your life isn’t off track, you know, then, you know, get a nutritionist, get a therapist, right. These are people who can really help, uh, uh, kind of help heal before it becomes too dramatic. If, if the quality of life is impacted for you, then there are some more, um, serious options. And, you know, um, I’ll just mention there are treatment facilities for eating disorders, um, where you can do inpatient or outpatient. You can Google that and find some of those. Um, there are, uh, there’s 12 step programs. Um, you know, there’s a couple of different varieties of 12 step programs that deal with eating disorders. And so, uh, you can Google that as well. And you know, of course 12 step programs are free. They don’t cost anything. Um, and typically, yeah, they typically apply the same tools and methods that are used with alcohol to other compulsion’s. And so, um, uh, that, that is, uh, you know, those are the type of treatment programs that I used and that helped me. Um, and you know, so there’s that whole spectrum and you can research what feels right for you.
Speaker 2 00:46:49 And you know, also I think a big part would be self-acceptance knowing who you are, accept who you are. It’s okay. Um, my son, my son is, Oh, he’s older now. So he’s, he’s definitely learned to embrace himself. My son is gay. And when he was younger, when he was struggling with that, he also found a lot of comfort in food. By the time he was about 13 years old, he was way into the 200 pounds. He’s like two 20 at 13, you know? So once he found himself in, he accepted who he was and he said, you know, momma and gay. And he just, he and, you know, embrace that. Now he lifts weights all the time. He’s in sports in nutrition, you know, like all of that, like as soon as you start to embrace your flaws, if you have flaws and you know what, what you are and who you are as a person too, that also helps us to release on any kind of shame that you’re holding.
Speaker 2 00:47:42 Right. Especially shame that was put on you. That’s not even your shame to hold, take that off first, just get rid of that. You know, it’s, if somebody did something to you, that’s on them, not on you that’s, you know, um, and if you did do something you’re ashamed of forgive yourself, forgiveness is huge. And when you start to forgive the person who hurt you and yourself, there’s just this weight that lifts right off of you start to see a little bit more clearly, right? It’s cause this, this thing that me and you have, Johnny is a mental game, really, you know, nobody’s forcing us to get anything in our hands. Nobody’s forcing us to put anything down our throat. It’s all in, it’s all in the mind. Right. It’s all in how we feel at that moment and what we’re following, right? Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the programs. I didn’t realize that some of them were free. That’s fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:48:34 You know, like those inpatient and outpatient programs aren’t necessarily free, you know, but like 12 step, 12 step fellowships are always free. Like that’s, that’s, that’s a, a part of it. And um, yeah. You know, it’s just, it’s, uh, like I said, shame, shame lives in darkness. And the minute that we can find enough courage, I won’t even say love for ourselves because maybe that comes later, but the minute you can find enough courage to go to someone that, you know, won’t ridicule you and say, I just feel really heavy in my heart about X, Y, Z. Um, you know, that burden starts to lift. And, uh, you know, because like, like you said, with your son, it’s shame is a trigger and, uh, uh, it’s about finding that peace and love. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:49:28 This is such a great conversation, Johnny. Oh my gosh. And I learned a lot. I’m going to look into a few of those things. You mentioned. Definitely. One of the takeaways for me from our conversation is, um, besides the self care is, um, the mindfulness, like having that mindfulness when you’re eating, putting the, putting the, the group, the grouping of foods, right? So this is my red, this is yellow. This is great. That is brilliant. Brilliant. Because, um, I’m very methodical. I need things done a certain way and I’m very organized that way. So that would work for me, you know, like, Oh, this is red. Yeah. That’s red, you know, it’s dog food. Not doing that. Yeah. I love that. Um, so thank you for that and what, you know, the weight loss that, because I’m still on my journey. Like I said, I buy, I have about 80 pounds to lose. And, uh, but I’m very proud of you. I’m very, very proud of you. I really am. I think that what you did was extremely hard because at 400 plus pounds, and it’s really hard to look at that and say, how am I going to deal with this? Right. So the takeaway is nothing is
Speaker 1 00:50:37 Possible. That’s right. That’s right. Nothing is impossible. You can do this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:50:42 You know, because I don’t want people who are like five or 600 pounds thinking, that’s it. I’m, I’m uh, I’m done. I’m done.
Speaker 1 00:50:49 No. Uh, let me tell you, I’m going to close it out with this. I’m going to say that when I was, you know, when I was on a half dozen medications, unable to stand and do my job unable to fly, um, socially isolated, I believed that it was my fate to fade into dark. That’s what I believed. I believed that my best case life scenario was to lose 50 or 75 pounds. I would stay in like the mid three hundreds. Maybe I could find someone to spend my life with. And I would just trudge that road forever. That’s what I believed was my best case scenario. Because in my mind, if someone lost 200 pounds, they would make a documentary about them. Like that’s so huge who loses the weight and keeps it off. You know, you hear people lose weight and then they gain it right back plus more.
Speaker 1 00:51:50 And so I just didn’t think it was real. And when I first went in to get help, I didn’t expect that this would happen. I just wanted enough relief for the pain to stop. And when I was given a new life, a complete new lease on life, my career bounce back stronger. My love life bounce back stronger. My finances bounce back stronger. My body bounce back stronger when all of this happened. Um, it was just such a gift that came by surprise because I CA I was willing to just tell someone that I was hurting. So good. Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 00:52:37 Uh, and only just like you didn’t do it overnight either. It’s one step at a time guys, one step at a time don’t get discouraged. Don’t look at the numbers because this is what happened to me. I looked at the number like, Whoa, I almost have a hundred pounds to lose. I can’t no way, you know, but once I looked at it as, Nope, I’ll just start today with whatever I can do today. And then tomorrow I started the same. I’ll just do today. What I can do today. Right. So that’s all you can do, right. Because if you look at the number, like if you want to look at the numbers, somebody said to you, okay, Johnny, we’re gonna go for 300 pounds. You would be like, exactly, exactly. Right. You would’ve just exactly what you would’ve done. Laughed or cried and be like, I’m never going to be able to do this.
Speaker 2 00:53:19 Yeah. So just one bit at a time guys, one bit at a time, one moment, a time, one bite at a time. And there’s a lot of great programs even now on virtual, on T you know, you can just turn on your computer and find a lot of great information out there. So don’t be discouraged because sometimes even I get discouraged when my weight goes up a little, I’m like, Oh no, what am I doing wrong? You know, it’s like, just, don’t be discouraged one day at a time. Right. You didn’t get there overnight, Johnny. I’m sure it took you some time to get there.
Speaker 1 00:53:49 Right? Exactly. And I’ll say, you know, if listeners have any questions, I’m happy to, I’m happy to answer. I’m sure you will too. Nina. Um, my email is Johnny J O H N N *@****************ng.com. And you can find me on Facebook at, uh, refractive coaching and, uh, or you can go to my website, refractive coaching.com. And I’m happy to give more specifics. Um, I didn’t want to go too deep into those on the podcast, but I’m happy to give those on a one-on-one and Nina, if people have questions about your journey, what do you recommend?
Speaker 2 00:54:24 So they can find me at, uh, they can email me actually a hello at straight talk, no sugar added.com. Same thing for all of my Twitter handles. It’s all of my handles. Actually, it’s a no sugar added.com. So straight talk, no sugar added.com. But, um, Johnny, I really, really highly recommend that people do reach out to you. I think that, uh, you, you definitely know what you’re doing. I already listened to your podcast. So if anybody, uh, doesn’t know, please do go to refractive. Um, he is pretty much on all the platforms I believe. Right? Yeah. And listen, because it is really, really, really insightful. I loved your keynote. That was amazing. I still think about it. It’s it was so good. Uh, so I really highly recommend that everybody just goes to your site. I’ll make sure to link all of your information as well below. And so that, you know, people can find you and follow you and listen to you and book some coaching sessions. Cause I think it’ll be worth their time for sure. Yeah. So this was amazing. This is really good.
Speaker 1 00:55:27 And Nina, as I simulcast this episode on my podcast, why don’t you tell my listeners who may not be familiar with your podcast, what they could expect if they tuned into different episodes?
Speaker 2 00:55:39 So my episodes are really about life topics. That’s what I talk about. So I have great thinkers like yourself and people who are coaches, entrepreneurs, business developers, you know, things like that. Come on the show and talk about real life stuff and how they overcame challenges in their lives. How did they become that nine figure business? How did you become a coach? How did you lose your weight? How did you, that’s what I want to talk about real life topics to challenge and transform our thinking.
Speaker 1 00:56:08 That’s right, exactly. Awesome sauce. I’m so I’m so happy that we worked together on this knee and, uh, I’m happy that our listeners get to, um, enjoy each other’s, uh, perspectives.
Speaker 2 00:56:21 This was amazing. Thank you so much, Johnny. Thank you. Have a great day.
Speaker 1 00:56:24 You too. All right, bye. Bye. You have been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Jo****@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember aim your light.

Kandace Graham didn’t miss a daily call with her mother for over 20 years. Not one single day. When her mother unexpectedly passed away in mid-2020, Kandace found herself in a state of mourning that didn’t look like what we’ve come to expect. While she processed the sorrow of finishing one chapter of life, she entered a natural, authentic state of grief that was built on gratitude, peace, balance- and even joy- as she saw the gift of her mother’s presence in her life, her mother’s successful completion of her life’s work, and the legacy Kandace would carry on.

Email Kandace at au********************@***il.com or find her on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/AuthenticLegacies

Find her mother’s book on amazon by clicking here: Living from the Inside Out by Angie Haggens; note that this podcast does not profit in any way from this link.

For a similarly- themed episode, try The Ancient Truths of Acceptance and PLINKO.

Episode transcript performed by audio software follows below- please excuse any inaccuracies.

Speaker 0 00:00:02 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling when maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you. And as long as you need, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening. As we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive. Hello
Speaker 1 00:00:35 Everybody. And welcome to another episode of refractive. I’m Johnny Jean. Today, we have such a powerful episode to go through and, uh, I’m excited to introduce you to a guest. She’s a very close friend of mine. Her name is Candice Graham. I want to start this episode with an intention to send out so much love and light to all the people who are listening to refractive today. Uh, because this is an episode that deals with a topic that can be sensitive. And, uh, I just want you to know that however you feel, whether you resonate with this topic and my take on it or not, uh, I do just want to send that love and light to you. Spiritual growth is not for the weak. And while we hear people say all the time at the passing of a loved one, that we wish each other peace, and that we believe that our loved ones are in a better place. It doesn’t mean that we don’t sometimes spiral into a dark space, um, because it’s hard to process the death and the passing of someone that we’re very close to.
Speaker 1 00:01:46 But when we look at the concept of spiritual growth, every single thing that happens in life, every joy pain, every moment of boredom and adventure, they’re all catalysts that are designed to gently nudge and sometimes not so gently nudge us on the path to a road of healing and to our highest calling of stepping into authentic power. So Candace, as I mentioned, she is a business owner, a community philanthropist, and a spiritual intuitive born in Baltimore. She relocated to Miami in her twenties where she put to use or education in science and in culinary arts. And she built a career and friendships that today span the globe. And I get to call myself one of those today. She’s back in Baltimore, she’s married to the love of her life. And she has two little centers of her universe. She has her kids, Devin and Olivia in 2020 in the midst of the COVID pandemic.
Speaker 1 00:02:44 She experienced the passing of her mother. She calls it her mother’s transition inspired in part by her mother’s life work, Candice launched authentic legacies. It’s an organization to help others become their most authentic selves. And if you listen to refractive, you know, that’s my jam. So, uh, the services that you provide include, uh, business consultancy, personalized crafting mindfulness development through authentic legacies Academy and Oracle card, intuitive readings for her philanthropy. She has three properties dedicated to supporting community nonprofits and families. So after all of that, Candice, welcome to refractive, my wonderful and powerful friend. I’m so excited to have you here. I’m excited to be here. Thank you for bearing your soul with us because, uh, I think the story of how you handled and processed your mother’s transition was so it was just so inspiring. I couldn’t believe it. I, I watched you go through it and the whole time I was ready to show up for you as a friend, to a person who was spiraling into darkness and that never happened.
Speaker 1 00:04:00 Um, I watched you maintain serenity and that doesn’t mean that you didn’t have sorrow. Um, but I just couldn’t believe that someone actually was able to respond naturally to this, uh, ideal idealized way of processing the death of a loved one. So before we kind of talk about a Candace, you wrote, uh, an introduction to your mother’s book to a special edition of your mother’s book, you call it in her words, and I would love to have you read part of that introduction to us so that we can see inside your mind what was happening as you processed her passing.
Speaker 2 00:04:41 Oh, of course. Welcome to my mind listeners and Johnny lovely again, don’t say don’t run away scared. Okay. So, uh, this is so, um, in her words is it will be a, this a collection of her handwritten notes from the process of writing her books and some other things that she was researching and practicing spiritually. Um, so the introduction begins. It was approaching 9:00 AM on Friday, August 21st, 2020. And there was still no answer, no response on Skype, Facebook, home, or cell phones. And over 20 years, we never missed a morning. Check-in never, I immediately knew. I just knew I got Devin and olives in the van and headed to my childhood home to pray over my mother during her transition. I just knew no sadness, no numbness, just peace and preparing my spirit to meet her. I just knew there she was on the couch, peacefully transitioning just as I knew, she looked so peaceful, so beautiful.
Speaker 2 00:05:40 So authentic. I prayed over her a shorter that we were all okay. Thanked her for those things that she reported to Devin and Island. I was humbled and with gratitude from the depths of my soul, thank her for the faith, strength and courage. I just knew she gave me that was sustained me on earth here without her, everyone from then until now, ask how I held it all together while I didn’t. I cry when I need to laugh when I need to handle business. When I need to talk to God, when I need to talk to her, when I need to, how can I not be strong when I just witnessed and knew the beautiful spirit that guided me, loved me unconditionally and taught me to love unconditionally poured the spirit love and wisdom of God. And to me, and demonstrated and inspiring and inspired unwavering faith was teaching me her final lesson, a peace that surpasses all understanding.
Speaker 2 00:06:31 I had no desire to understand what was happening or why it didn’t matter. And still doesn’t my goal. And my assignment was to ease her physical body. As her spirit was returned home. I just knew it had to be me. And it was truly the greatest honor of my life. Thus far, like everything in her house, in her life. She ended her mission on top and radiant. I can see her dancing and singing her way into the Gates of heaven, ready and prepared for her next assignment, sitting at the feet and thrown of the God. She loved what an overwhelming joy I had, knowing that she was reunited with family that proceeded her. The ringleader had arrived.
Speaker 3 00:07:06 Is that a look out? Although
Speaker 2 00:07:08 They knew she was coming, they prepared. I just knew that I had witnessed the most beautiful transition of a Saint that activated my transformation, walking alongside my little mommy during her transition. I felt the warmth and confirmation of my from connection with God, my faith transformed from a muster seat to a diamond. As I performed CPR with every whisper of a heartbeat, I prayed, cried and focused on helping her spirit reach the finish line. She knew she wasn’t perfect, but to me, she was, I just know she left her legacy and wisdom. And I just know I will too.
Speaker 3 00:07:47 You just knew I had
Speaker 2 00:07:50 Listen to Angie. Ain’t not picking up the phone. If he had an ounce of anything in her body, she would’ve called somebody, somebody, if she would have crawled out into the, onto the porch and waited for the garbage men to come, she would have reached out. And, you know, definitely always been an open discussion in my family for my grandfather being my mother every six months, she gave me an updated manifesto of her wishes and, you know, account numbers of who to contact in regards to different financial matters. So it always been an open conversation. We also openly talked about faith. Um, and honestly just w when she was here, we were just so split spiritually connected that, like I just knew, I knew that there was no way in the world that she would not take my call for that span of the morning. And I’m like, okay, well, like I said, I got the paper, the manifesto and headed over. And, you know, just when I got here, it wasn’t about me. You know, I can’t imagine everyone has different responses to definitely, as you said, some people, you know, have that response and granted, you know, once
Speaker 4 00:08:56 The EMT, you know, you know, unfortunately she had passed on the transition at that point. Yeah. I was like, my, my sister was here and I was snotty, blubbering mess. And then I was like, okay, you know what? My heart was not hurting for myself. Cause I had her, I had her for 41 years all to myself. That was my little mommy. And you know, I couldn’t have asked for a better, better mommy. Um, but my heart was breaking for Devin there, peanut butter and jelly, all her friends that she’s known longer than I’ve even been in. You know, my heart was breaking for those people, um, that I had to make the phone calls. Like I said, in my writing, I got hung up one. I got cursed out. I got, who is this Candace Angie who no, I think you have the wrong number.
Speaker 4 00:09:41 So that was where my sorrow and grief and mourning Kane, because much like us, she didn’t have Canterbury, many casual friends, everyone was family. Um, so that, that was where, you know, the, the saw and the grief came, came in. She’s fine. She’s in heaven or working wherever it is that she needs to be. Um, and we’re here still trying to figure it out. So, um, you know, she accomplished everything she wanted to accomplish. She wrote her book, she got to spend time with her grandkids, even up to the evening before her passing and her transition. Um, her car was paid for, she was retired. She had traveled, um, she met Shamar Moore. So like she did all the, she touched, uh, Oh, what is his name? Uh, Ricky Williams, I think from the Miami dolphins. She touched his locks in the club. Like she was living her best. She lived her best life. She absolutely loved her best life. Yeah. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:10:33 But as an outsider, it just seems so extraordinary that for someone so close, I mean, you, you never missed a call for 20 years every day. Um, it’s just amazing that you seem to have found peace and acceptance so quickly. What do you think, what do you think was the reason for that?
Speaker 5 00:10:58 Um, honestly, I,
Speaker 4 00:11:00 I can’t, you know, I am not a very, uh, I say religious person, but we’re very spiritual. She talks in her book about her various, um, spiritual practices and things that she did to keep herself centered and grounded up until that point. Like if I was walking around like Montebello, I will be on the phone listening to Joyce Meyer through her. If I didn’t want to hear it, I’d be like, Oh, I’ll call you at 11 when you’re done. Um, but it was, it was like I said, it was a duty. Um, I looked up the word primal, cause it was primal and not in the sense that I felt that the urge that, so I looked it up. Um, and just on Google, um, like an essential, basic feeling that urge to protect yourself and your family from harm on the most basic part of, of who you are, that’s important, your hardwired behaviors enhanced your ability to cope with the vital environmental contingencies, tribal loyalty that is dedication to the people close to you and self preservation.
Speaker 4 00:11:58 So a part of it was, yes, I need to hold it together because if I don’t hold it together, then I won’t be together. And you know, I’ve got kids and so I just need to hold it together in this moment. But bigger than that was, you know, this woman lives, she two weeks passed her 65th birthday. You know, I want to honor her and everything I do to this day. I want to honor her. I want to be sure, you know, when the nine 11 operator asked me to perform CPR, I was like, no, I want to be humping away on her chest. You know, she passed sometime between when she started transitioning, I say transitioning because when I got here, she was not all the way deceased. Um, which I think is interesting because the TV was on the morning show and that comes on.
Speaker 4 00:12:42 I think it’s six or something like that. So sometime between one in the morning and about nine was when the transition started. So when I got here, you know, she was still, you know, she was still warm. Her ankles and wrists were a little rigid, but her knees and larger lambs were able to be moved. So to me, I’m like, okay, she’s, there’s still, there’s still some, some level of consciousness there. You know, if, if I were laying here at my favorite spot watching my favorite show, having my favorite beverage and I had that last moment of consciousness, what would I want to, like, what would I want those moments to be like, I would want to be reassured, I would want to, you know, like I said, in my writing had to be me. She was at my house the night before she would not have had a peaceful transition.
Speaker 4 00:13:29 Had she been in some horrific accident or the kids had seen her, you know, have some type of calamity. So, you know, to me, it’s like, you know, if this were me laying on the couch and Devin or Olivia came in, what would I want them to do? Realistically in my mind, I would want them to be like, okay, mommy, you know, everything’s going to be okay. You never know how people are going to react, but I’m like, you know, she can hear me. And this is the last time she’s going to hear my voice. And the last time I’m going to see, you know, any signs of like, what do I want this last exchange to be? So, like I said, as I was giving CPR, I mean, I was definitely crying and I got nine 11 on the phone. She’s like, do you feel her heartbeat?
Speaker 4 00:14:05 I’m like, listen, she’s like, get on the floor. I’m like, I’m not something on the floor. Listen, this lady lived 65 years and accomplished. I’m not thumping her on the floor. She’s like, well, I can tell you how to gently put her on the floor. I’m like, okay, well, that sounds better. Like, this is still my mama when I came in here and I didn’t know what was going on, I was still at, hello, mommy, are you here? So, you know, it’s all about, you know, like that prime or, um, just honoring, honoring who she is even to this day, through that moment, you know, if there’s any level of consciousness, what, what was, she would have wanted right. Over anything that I was feeling she would want to know. We had just had a conversation. Um, after I had Olivia, I had a health crisis and she told me how proud she wasn’t me, that I was able to go and help and advocate for myself.
Speaker 4 00:14:53 And that she knew I was, she knew that I was okay. Um, and she knew that Devin and Allah, she, she knew that everything here was settled. So me knowing that in her mind, you know, I’m like, yeah, we are okay. And go, you know, go peacefully, go see grandma and pop, pop, and Marsha and gosh, Russell from like the 90, you know, just all of these people that she talked about, you know, so many friends passing away with COVID and I’m like, you know, what, what better way? It’s, like I said, when your favorite spot, we called the counter Woody on Woody Washington, the morning show, she had like a bottle of water. Her hair was rolled up in her rollers. So, you know, when it came time for the viewing, literally all they had to do was like use her hair. That was it.
Speaker 4 00:15:37 So was like, she was ready. She was, she was ready. Um, her body wasn’t in any type of distress or comportment, nothing was knocked over. Um, she, she was just peacefully laying there. Um, I can’t say that she necessarily waited on me, but you know, there was definitely enough consciousness there that even when the MTS were, you know, doing CPR, they never shocked her when they were doing their CPR and intervention. Whenever I would see a slight jump in the monitor, I would say, you know, we’re okay. I love you. You know? And they’re kind of looking at me and I’m like, okay, she could still hear me right. The heartbeat. Right. Okay. So I’m going to reassure her and let her know. And you know, she’s looking down now. So there’s, I’m quite sure she shaking her head about a lot of stuff. God is telling her about me. Maybe she didn’t know, but in that moment,
Speaker 6 00:16:27 The Miami clubs are like, well, she was there for a lot of it. Oh goodness. Jessica Labonte, Jessica, Jessica LaMonte is doing your mama’s nails right now
Speaker 4 00:16:41 And talking and talking cash trash all the way. So, you know, thoughts like that and like, laugh like these. I’m like, you know how you know, she’s my best friend, one of my best friends. Right. I’m down here. Like, where’s the,
Speaker 6 00:16:54 Yep. So I wanna, I wanna kind of, you know, part of the reason that processing the death of a loved one is so hard is because of our attachment. It’s not, you know, love is not selfish, right? Love is not, love does not fear. Right? So when someone dies and we go into hysterics, that’s, that’s not our love talking. That’s fear. That’s fear that we’re alone. Fear that something that was ours is not with us anymore. Fear that a source of comfort support stability has been taken from us. Right. And so the pain of someone’s passing is mostly not, not fully, but mostly from attachment. Our ego has told us that we need this person, this person counts towards our happiness quotient. And if this person isn’t available to us anymore than we’ve lost, we’ve lost out. And it’s that loss that feels so painful and scary. And so I, I find it so interesting that you, um, while you relied so heavily on your mother for that emotional nourishment, uh, in that food, you still found yourself able to, um, let go and not clenched down. Right. Because it’s that clenching, don’t go, don’t go. Don’t go. It’s that clenching? That hurts. It’s not the letting go. That hurts. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4 00:18:43 Well, I guess I could say, I never really held on now that I’m thinking about it, you know, we were thinking about it now. I guess we were just kindred spirits that, you know, just ended up as mother and daughter. Um, she would tell you in a minute, I don’t belong to anybody, but God. So, you know, I, you know, keeping that in mind, you know, she was my mother, but I was also a gift to her. You know, she was here before me, she gave life to me. So, you know, all of the, all of the things that I need to hold on to from her, she’s given me, she’s given me, um, I guess that’s the best way I can describe it. Um, if I, you know, sometimes I’m like, Oh my gosh. Like if I could just ask, like, we had a leak in the basement here in her house and I’m like, okay, this is what I want to ask my mom.
Speaker 4 00:19:31 I want to ask her about this frigging bucket, you know? And then there’s other times where I’m like, Oh, I’m going through the situation with, you know, with Devin or Olivia. I wonder what she would have done. And, you know, I think about her, her mother passed away when she was very, when she was a late teenager. Um, and she didn’t have her mom at all during, you know, when I was born. So a lot of her, most of all of her adult life, she had to navigate on her own. And I had the benefit 20 years over her. So we talk so openly about so many things. I mean, it would, we would say the same things at the same time. So I think that we were so spiritually connected and my faith won’t my faith. Doesn’t allow me to have that, that, that mentality.
Speaker 4 00:20:13 You know, if I believe the word of God that I believe in, you know, whomever is listening, whatever your higher power belief is, if you believe the truth of that practice, then essentially you shouldn’t he to your, I guess, another prime or, um, another primal instinct. I, it was just something natural for me. It’s I just, like I said, when I was at home, I just knew. So, you know, driving over, even though I had to pick up my husband’s key from the mechanic, I stopped and picked up his key from the mechanic. You don’t want the way there. Cause I was like, you know, I, I just knew, I knew what I had to do rushing. Wasn’t going to, you know, I didn’t want to get into an accident, you know, coming over here in hysterics. Um, as the EMT is lap, I had them put her back on the couch and I play some gospel music.
Speaker 4 00:21:01 I called my one of my long time childhood friends. Who’s a pastor. I said, Hey, what are you doing? He’s like, Oh, I’m at work. I said, okay, well I need a favor. He’s like, Oh, of course anything. I said, okay, um, Angie is past, you see on the couch and say, I need you to say a prayer. He’s like what? He’s like what he said, okay, wait, wait. Here’s what he said. Okay. Let me ask a, come on now, pastor, you know, you know, you are called one an assignment. So he said his prayer. He said, okay, I’m gone. I’ll talk to you later. So, um, I, I just, you know, I never hold possession over over people. Um, and I, you know, I know ultimately what’s best for her is in her spirit. You know, that body that was here, you know, she had her, you know, her crosses the bare some things that she was very easily able to work through. Some things that she was not, those are not issues that she has to work through anymore. Um, like Byron Katie talks about her mom, you know, why should I, why should I be upset? You know, if her mom had cancer, why should I be upset that she’s not here still suffering?
Speaker 6 00:22:06 Right, exactly. That she wrote,
Speaker 4 00:22:08 She wrote her book. Anything, honestly, any I finished, I finally read it. Re-read it? I should say. Um, after the editing process and anything that I would need to know is in that book except about the bucket in the basement. Yes, yes. Every everything except the bucket in the basement is in that book. Um, so how wonderful would it be for you to have left this legacy of a child and a grandchild and a home for, for your family? This book of wisdom, um, have accomplished? The only thing I think that she didn’t want to do was stop smoking and go to Fiji. Yeah. Those were the only two things. And then COVID hit. So she was on her. I ain’t going to Fiji. She wouldn’t even go to Wegmans. So she was not going to get on a plane and go to Fiji. So if she was content with her life, I would have nothing but joy and happiness for her.
Speaker 4 00:22:58 And, you know, in the means of compassion, like I said, if I was laying on that couch, of course, you know, I would not expect for my kids not to be emotional. Right. But having the presence of mind and just having, I guess, the strength to compartmentalize, I guess it’s like, okay, in this moment, I need to be a guide. I need to help her transition. And once all that’s done, you can kind of lose it, you know? And then from there you pick up the pieces and see what needs to be done. All right.
Speaker 6 00:23:28 So Candace, we are going to take a break. Uh, everyone we’ll be back in just about 45 minutes with our guests, Candice Graham. Hi everyone. I’m so happy that you’re listening to refractive podcast. I hope you’re resonating with today’s episode. I’m speaking, especially to those of you who are leaders in your organizations. If I can ever be of service for your team, I hope you’ll reach out to me. I live my best life by helping others do the same. My services include facilitating leadership meetings, offering workshops and seeing employee events. And of course, coaching, I work with individuals and with small groups to help your high-performers release, limiting beliefs and step into their full power I’m based in DC. I’m happy to travel and I can also support you virtually through zoom for more information, please visit refractive coaching.com. And now let’s go back to the podcast. All right, everyone. Welcome back to refractive, Candice, to jump right back into the conversation. I really want to dig a little bit into your mom’s book. We’ve mentioned it a couple of times. Would you share with the listeners what’s the title of the book and uh, what’s it about how did it come about?
Speaker 4 00:24:43 Um, so the title of the book is it’s a lengthy one. We had discussions about this living from the inside that said, you know, it’s your truth. You tell it, you put all the letters in there. You, you want, um, is this going to be, is a video going to be shown? Is it just going to be audio or video too? Yeah. Okay. Um, so the book is, um, this sister, she loved butterflies, um, living from the inside out metamorphosis of the butterfly within growing through life’s challenges. And, um, basically it’s just kind of a, uh, an outline of life experiences, life lessons, um, advice. I think every chapter has like a piece of advice in it. Um, male or female, I think a lot of the misconceptions, you know, because she’s a woman and she’s writing about her experience. You know, she talks about, um, putting on a facade, wearing a mask and not feeling good enough not being enough.
Speaker 4 00:25:40 Um, these are all things that realistically everyone, you know, challenge is challenged with. Um, so basically that’s what it is. It’s not really a memoir in the sense that she goes from, you know, birth to, to transition. It’s more about life lessons. She talks about the Rona in there, um, in, well that’s in the supplement, but, you know, she talks about being loose and being considered being a ho. And, you know, I remember some of the stories that she told me that aren’t in the book and, you know, it’s a very good synopsis of 65 years of wisdom. That’s very, very concentrated into, Oh gosh, it’s not even, it’s a very, very quick and interesting,
Speaker 6 00:26:23 Right. That’s right. I read it. It took me, I think, three hours, three pages. Yeah. And it’s, it’s a fast read and it is a chock full of wisdom. So, you know, here’s my perspective on, on that book. Uh, and we will share, uh, how to get a copy it if you’d like it’s available. Um, it’s available in paperback and it’s also available on Kindle. And my perspective is it’s not that Angie’s wisdom and life lessons are so revolutionary and never before seen. It’s not that it’s that she takes wisdom that we all have heard before. And she applies it to like, in this moment of my life, here’s where I applied this life lesson that we all already know. Right. And here’s what happened, or here’s a moment of my life where I would have benefited from applying this life lesson that we all already know. And because I didn’t, this is what happened. So it’s a very practical application of wisdom. And it’s about stepping into your true authenticity. Yes.
Speaker 4 00:27:43 It’s very transparent. It’s very transparent. Um, but the beauty and I guess one of going back to, you know, why it was so easy for me to, um, celebrate this transition. There’s nothing in this book. I didn’t know. You know, I don’t, I don’t feel like she left any cards on the table. She didn’t have any crazy bones, you know, skeletons in our closet, all the skeletons. Most of them, a lot of them are in this book. Um, I think it was very candid, but it was very respectful. Um, outside of very briefly mentioning, mentioning family. She didn’t mention names in situations, um, which I think is helpful because if you know her, you remember the whole, was that me? Was that not me, but it doesn’t detract from it. Doesn’t detract from the message. Um, like it’s very practical. And she, I think the thing that makes it very authentic and relatable is that she checks herself and she’s like, you know, what if I would’ve, you know, if I would have accepted the fact that it’s normal to want to date or sleep with or whatever, more than one, man, it doesn’t make me a ho if I would have accepted that and looked at it from a different perspective, I probably would not have made a lot of choices that I did or didn’t make.
Speaker 4 00:28:56 Um, so it’s not a, it’s not an, I learned all these lessons and now I’m so great. And I’ve moved on. It’s a, Hey, this happened, I didn’t know that I didn’t know this information, but now I do. And it’s how I improve. Or I knew this all along. I didn’t follow my intuition and this is what happened. And I learned a lesson. So, you know, being able to be that truthful and honest and authentic with yourself, um, that makes a difference. Yes. And that will give you peace.
Speaker 6 00:29:26 She talks about, for example, I mean like, like just for an example of how relatable this stuff is, in addition to her struggle with society’s definition of morality and how, you know, she would fall short of what society says she showed her have done. She talks about the complicated relationship with her father and how like, by absorbing messaging, that was not hers. It was not authentic to her, but by absorbing other people’s messaging and holding herself to other people’s standards, it tore her up from the inside and it held her back. Right. I talk about aiming your light, it shut her light out, you know? And, uh, as she compared herself to her siblings and to her, her parents’ expectations, it, it affected, it affected her. And I think that there’s so much of that, that we can all relate to. Um, when we swallow someone else’s definitions of appropriate and then get upset when it doesn’t fit.
Speaker 4 00:30:27 Right. And I think that, I feel like, I don’t know if it really translated through the book or if it’s just because she’s my mom and I knew, but I think that a part of that was a lot of, um, assumptions as well. Um, I know there’s, she told me about conversations that she had with people about the book Africa. And they were like, well, I never felt that way. Why did you think I felt that way? And she’s like, Oh wow. I just, you know, just naturally stepped into that role. I just naturally took up that cross to bear. And they were like, well, no, you know, so, you know, having been through what she went through with my grandmother and, you know, being in the house at 18 and, you know, going through the things with my, my grandfather and grandmother and then various things throughout her life with work, you know, holding it all in, absorbing it and then still putting on a brave face.
Speaker 4 00:31:16 So then people just keep dumping the mess and you just keep absorbing it. And then you, you know, you put, you have a closet with a ton of stuff in it. You don’t know what’s there. And then one day it just all explodes in one way or another. So, um, yeah, I loved the book. I helped her edit up to a certain point. And then I was like, okay, this is enough hour. I’ll get around to reading it. Um, but like I said, there’s nothing, there’s nothing in here that, that I didn’t know. And definitely she was not a very, uh, micro-managing mom. So it’s very interesting to read and see how much I am light. I mean, I knew that, but how much I am like her and how my values, um, mirror hers and certain things and aspects of my life that she may have wished that she could have had that.
Speaker 4 00:32:03 I, I, I did experiences not because she, you know, she certainly was not thrilled when I told her I was moving to Miami. Um, but she, I know that that was something that she always wanted to do was, was said she could have left Baltimore because of, you know, my grandmother’s house, she wasn’t able to. Um, but she on the flip side was like, Oh great. And this is where our kind of philosophy is managed a match. You know, my daughter is moving to Miami. How, you know, how sad that I’m so that she’s so far away, but also I have a vacation spot. I can go stay in a hotel for free. I can get free massages. I can go to the, so while
Speaker 2 00:32:40 I’ve missed it, I guess this is kind of a synopsis of it that while I miss her, I know that the experience that she’s having and the character that she’s building far outweighs my need to have her close to me.
Speaker 6 00:32:53 Yeah. Yeah. I picked a part of that book. That’s my favorite. Would you be willing to read it? Sure. All right. Look, I read through that whole book a second time. I’m like, wait, which one’s my favorite. And I read through the whole book again, it is such an easy to digest, easy to read book. Um, yeah. Anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:33:13 Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna like write this the whole, my whole copy is marked up. I’m like, I can’t even pick one favorite part. Um,
Speaker 6 00:33:25 Yeah, cause it’s a study. It’s a study guide. It’s like a stairs for how to, how to find your own authenticity. That’s really what her mission was. She talks about it in the beginning. She’s like, you know, and that’s the whole metaphor of the Caterpillar, right? Is that like you go through this so that you can stand firmly and confidently in who and what you are, you know? And,
Speaker 2 00:33:48 And it’s a process. Trust the process, trust the process. Um, okay. So the excerpt from her book, I’m not sure which chapter this is.
Speaker 6 00:33:58 It’s from it’s from the last chapter, I think.
Speaker 2 00:34:01 Okay. Um, so this is living from the inside out, um, metaphor of the metamorphosis of the butterfly within growing through life’s challenges by Andrea, Denise, Angie, Hagans a novel by Kush. Um, uh, so her and her words for me, I started my evolution or my transformation when I finally got to the point where I was tired of being a people pleaser. I had been aligned myself to be used or taking for granted and knowing my wants and desires, there was a lot of negative self-talk going on. I needed to detox from the stories that I created in my head about who I was. I found that life is all about relationships with your parents, your children, your relatives, siblings, and lovers, friends, coworkers, with all those relationships going on. I oftentimes forgot about my relationship with my divine entity. Just as important as that relationship is a relationship with myself. I realized that you always have to leave something for yourself, but don’t give all of yourself away. So when it comes to you that there’s nothing left you’re depleted. I came up with my personal vision or mission mission statement as a result of emerging from my cocoon. My vision statement says my success depends on my ability to use my knowledge, skills, and life experiences with integrity in order to help others begin to heal. That’s basically the premise of my book.
Speaker 6 00:35:23 Ooh, goosebumps. I love it. This is so many of us. And, you know, Candice you’re, you’re one of my spiritual partners. It’s a, it’s a term I use. Um, I got this from Gary Zuckoff spiritual teacher, but it’s a term I use for people who are in my life and on a parallel spiritual journey. And there are people I use to hold myself accountable and, uh, to bounce things off of. And I count on these people as well to challenge me when I’m not living up to the growth that I say I want. And, um, for so many of us who are on this path, the idea of living a life, living my best life, so that other people feel so other people find their own permission to live their best life. Like that’s what it’s all about. That is what it’s about. And when I read that, Angie was like, that’s the premise of her book. Like, man, that just resonated with me.
Speaker 4 00:36:30 And, and that’s really, you know, I I’ve always, I didn’t feel like I had the means to, to be that, to be that force in people’s lives for one reason or another. Um, but always worked in hospitality. So, you know, that urge to, to serve people, to help people, to make their lives better, um, above all, to help them realize that they are worthy and that they have all the things in them that they need. Um, you know, I listened to Byron Katie and Joyce Meyer, TD Jakes and other . And they, I won’t say that they have a cookie cutter approach to things, but
Speaker 6 00:37:12 Don’t argue they don’t argue with each other.
Speaker 4 00:37:15 Right. So, but why can’t you have, have your own philosophy? You know, you take what you can and release what you can’t. So, you know, I might say something from Byron Katie, something from TD Jakes, something from NAS or DMX channel 47 on Sirius FM. When the kids are like, I need the shirt that says I’m spiritual, but I cuss a little bit, you know, you just have to know, you know, like I said, you know, you walk up two feet, you have your, your spiritual foot and you have your third world or your earthly foot. And you, you know, you have to learn to strike the balance. And once you find your own balance, not only will people see your example, but they will trust and believe that they can do it themselves. And they they’ll trust your advice. Um, it’s happened to me, you know, in my relationship with you, you, you can sense who’s authentic and who’s just like shooting the mass at you.
Speaker 4 00:38:08 And if you don’t trust yourself and you’re not authentic and truthful for yourself, like, you know, like she says in her book, if I can’t put all of that aside, then I can’t help myself. And then I can’t help anybody else. So people see me, they’re like, wow, you know, she’s like, how is she doing it? How is she accomplishing all of these things? And she always used to say, you know, people always wonder, you know, what’s going on at her house. I never see, you know, people come in and go in, but she don’t, she always has put together and she’s like, it’s none of their business. And I said, you know, this evening when I was thinking, I said, reminds me, I can’t remember who said it, but maybe multiple people, um, other peoples, Oh, what is it? I like, it’s not my business with other people think about me.
Speaker 1 00:38:50 Oh yeah, you’re right. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.
Speaker 4 00:38:53 It’s not my business. But when I take care of myself, I’m authentic to myself. I don’t have to be concerned about their opinions because they will, they’ll, they’ll get the picture. And they’ll, you know, they’ll know what’s really going on is when you’re not authentic. And you’re wearing that mask that people are trying to figure out and, you know, the backbiting and the, you know, the gossiping and the whisper start. But if there’s nothing to, you know, there’s nothing, there’s nothing to guess about. There was nothing to guess about with my mom. Um, I, I don’t think there was anyway, people knew who, and like she said, in her book, people know what to call me about and what not to call me about. And if you call me and ask me, I’m going to tell you, so, you know, setting those boundaries as well, um, helped her, you know, maintain and keep her cup full for herself.
Speaker 1 00:39:38 Certainly no mystery to me about where the title of your organization comes from. So I’d love for you to kind of give us a kind of like a high level story of, uh, what’s the connection between you starting authentic legacies and this path, this chapter that closed with the passing of your mom.
Speaker 4 00:40:01 Um, and just in general. So my last job was in hotel sales. And like I said, I’ve been in hotels since I was 18 or 19 years old. And it always interested me that people don’t don’t understand their power. They don’t know their power, they don’t know their basic rights, um, something so simple as when I had one of my children, I didn’t know, I could walk outside and get fresh air. I couldn’t take the baby, but I had a C-section. I was in the hospital for a week. Just that little bit of fresh air, you know, it would have made such a difference in my recovery. I feel so my, you know, one of my main goals is to, you know, ultimately teach people and, you know, say, Hey, listen, these are your rights. Um, get, you know, once you recognize what your needs are, first of all, you have to know what your needs are and how to advocate for yourself.
Speaker 1 00:40:48 Talking about like legalities, you’re talking about, this is the space you have the right to take up in your life.
Speaker 4 00:40:54 Both, both, both, both. I mean, you know, it, it could be a spiritual thing, you know, like I said, you know, my faith won’t allow me to believe and think certain things. And if I am having those thoughts, then I go back and question my faith and then that’ll bring me back around, you know? And not everybody has the spiritual maturity, I guess you could say. Um, so, you know, and knowing what it took for my mother to get to where she was in her authenticity and spiritual maturity, and also here, you know, physically materialistically with the things she had and how she handled money. Um, I would like to teach people in the community how to kind of fast track get there, you know, it won’t, it shouldn’t take you 65 years. It took someone else 65 years. It shouldn’t take you 65 years.
Speaker 4 00:41:39 The information is there. Um, you know, it could be, you know, something spiritual about, you know, meditation. A lot of people say meditation doesn’t work for them. Well, maybe there’s, you know, there’s many forms of meditation. It’s not all owns and, you know, Tibetans thing in bowls, there’s lots of things you can do. Um, and then materialistically, you know, I’ve been talking to a lot of my friends own homes. I’m like, listen, you got to get a life estate deed. And I’m like, well, what does that? So, you know, it’s basically a deed that when someone passes away, the house automatically rolls over to their name. There’s no probate and debt, people don’t know these basic things. Um, and it, and to me, that’s a, that’s a great injustice that, I mean, she, that wasn’t her platform, but to me, it’s a great injustice when people aren’t able to access their full potential because they don’t have information that someone else has, or at least that I have. So, you know, I’m a forever student of myself and the world, you know, the material world and the spiritual world. So I would, it would be an injustice if I didn’t share that with someone else.
Speaker 6 00:42:37 Absolutely. Candice, how can people get in touch with you if they’d like to?
Speaker 4 00:42:43 Um, so you can email **@***************************il.com,
Speaker 6 00:42:48 I would say single or legacies, plural legacy,
Speaker 4 00:42:52 A single, single, authentic legacy for Hawaii project. Um, you can find me on Facebook under the same title and soon to launch when this podcast airs, um, will be the authentic legacy project, YouTube channel.
Speaker 6 00:43:06 All right. All right. So, uh, all right, everybody. Well, I want to give so much thanks and appreciation to Candice for coming on here, making herself vulnerable, sharing, such a personal story. I got to tell you, Candice, when I was trying to come up with the outline, I felt so uncomfortable writing out these topics. Because even though we’re friends like you, don’t like, you can’t know how other people are processing such a personal thing. And I’m like, Oh God, like I can’t, I don’t want to step on her toes. But the reason I want her on my show is because what happened was extraordinary. And, uh, and I want people to know that it is possible to love someone with all of your heart and to celebrate the fact that they have passed on. And to use that as your spiritual fuel for your next chapter, you did it. I saw it. I now know I can do it. And I want everyone who listens to this to know that they can do it too.
Speaker 4 00:44:06 That’s absolutely. Yep.
Speaker 6 00:44:08 So, all right, everybody. Well, we are wrapping up now. Have an amazing rest of the week and always, always remember aim your life.
Speaker 4 00:44:18 All right. Take care.
Speaker 6 00:44:24 I can’t read you all right, everybody. Now here’s the real goodbye. Bye everybody.
Speaker 4 00:44:29 Bye.
Speaker 6 00:44:32 You have been listening to refractive podcast and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, Johnny J O H N N *@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always remember aim your light.

Author, playwright, and screenwriter R. Eric Thomas joins Refractive’s Johnny Guidry in an episode celebrating the gift of laughter. From laughing through the pain of societal changes to surfing the wave of group laughter at the movies, Johnny and Eric dig into this magical gift that raises our energy to the next level and nudges us to be our highest selves.

You can find Eric’s HILARIOUS writings at the following links. His website is rericthomas.com, and find him on Twitter and Instagram at @OurEric

His books are: HERE FOR IT  and RECLAIMING HER TIME

His Newsletter: Sign up here, weekly humor essays and recaps

Plays: New Play Exchange Profile

For more information on Refractive, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com or www.RefractivePodcast.com. You can find the Refractive YouTube channel by clicking here.

For a similarly themed episode try Unlocking Joy with Jamir Smith.

Episode transcript follows (performed by automatic software); please excuse any inaccuracies.

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you. And as long as you, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening. As we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Hello everyone. And welcome to refractive. I’m Johnny G. Today. I am delighted to introduce you to our Eric Thomas. He is a national best-selling author. He’s a playwright, a screenwriter, and way back in another life, 12 years ago, he and I used to run in the same circles. So it’s wonderful to connect with him here for the podcast, his debut memoir here for it, or how to save your soul in America was a huge hit Lin. Manuel Miranda called it a pop culture, obsessed David Sedaris level laugh out loud, funny book, and it was published in 2020. It was featured on today as an August read with Jenna club pic. And it was also selected by NPR and its list of best books of 2020 for four years. He wrote Eric reads the news, which is a daily humor column, covering pop culture and politics on l.com. And it’s through that, that he’d gone, heard millions of followers. He’s currently writing on the Peabody award-winning series, Dickinson on Apple TV plus, and also better things on FX. I’m excited for you to get to know him as well. And, uh, we’re going to talk today about the power of laughter and humor and what an essential part of human experience laughter and humor is. So I really hope this episode resonates with you. I’m looking forward to it and let’s go, Eric, how are you?
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Oh, I’m so good. I’m so glad to be here with you, Johnny.
Speaker 1 00:02:22 I am delighted. I can’t believe it’s been 12 years since I’ve seen you in person.
Speaker 2 00:02:27 Well, this is the thing about social media. It feels like you’re, we’re hanging out in each other’s lives every day, even though we don’t talk. So this is great.
Speaker 1 00:02:34 Yeah. So thank you so much for being here. And, uh, this topic was something that just felt so natural for our conversation because of your journey. When I discovered that you had written this book here for it and that it was being so widely read. And so well-received, um, I do audio books. That’s kind of how I absorb most of my books nowadays. And so I use one of those audible credits. Now it was like download. And when I am, I was driving on a road trip while I was listening to your book and just guffawing. And so as you and I talked about doing a podcast episode together, I was like, it’s gotta be around laughter in humor because Eric is someone who is harnessed the power of laughter to really, um, shape the path that he’s on. And part of the service that you give to the world is helping them find their own laughter. So, um, this really feels like a natural topic for us.
Speaker 2 00:03:40 Okay. I mean, I’m excited. I love talking about laughter it’s, you know, there’s the adage. There’s nothing less funny than talking about. What’s funny, but I think, I think there are lessons in harnessing humor for all of us. I think it’s really essential to sort of being alive and tapping into the joy of being alive.
Speaker 1 00:03:59 Yeah. And so you mentioned during our kind of initial planning that, um, you found that laughter has a strong healing property and I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 00:04:11 Yeah. I, you know, I am putting together a minimum of more, you know, you go through everything that’s happened in your life. And then of course like the structure of story is usually there was conflict. I got, there was an obstruction in my path. I wanted something, I didn’t get it. I didn’t, I or I tried to get it. And then eventually you get it or you don’t get it, it’s a comedy or a tragedy, you know, reform will sense. And one of the challenges that I set for myself was I want to tell the stories of places in my life where, um, things were hard, but I want to find the funny in it. I want to figure out what the locus of the humor is. Um, there’s another adage, you know, uh, comedy equals tragedy plus time, which I think it’s true, you know, not everything becomes funny eventually, but everything becomes takes on a new context.
Speaker 2 00:05:02 And I think humor and laughter really give us a new sense of context about our surroundings and about our world. And it also helps us to identify well who the butt of the joke is or what the butt of the joke is. And there’s some really times where we feel that, uh, we are the butt of the joke. Um, whether it’s like the joke is a joke, uh, put on by society or whether it’s a joke that’s put on, you know, by, uh, an individual in our lives. And just reframing that and saying, I am able to laugh along with myself and laugh at the path that I’ve been on. It really helps to change the perspective, I think on everything that I’ve experienced. And I continue to think through, think of that, that, you know, even as I go through hard times in the present, I, I say to myself, eventually I’m going to write another book about this. And hopefully that book will be funny. We’ll see, you know, cut to 10 years from now. It’s like he never wrote another funny book again, but
Speaker 1 00:06:01 Yeah, you know, um, you F I guess caught the eye, um, of the world with Eric reads the news. And so just the point that you’re making right now, it’s about finding funny in just the ridiculous mundane things that we have to deal with every day. And I wonder if looking at news stories and trying to find the humor in it had an impact on your growth and how you serve the world.
Speaker 2 00:06:32 I think so, you know, there it is so easy for the news to feel overwhelming and, um, to really give into this desire to say like, you know what, I’m, I’m out on this new cycle, I’m out on the present. I, if something happens, somebody will let me know. And my job required that I look into the, the flame that is the news. Um, and you start to see the performative nature of so much of what is going on. Um, and so looking at politics as performance, um, and as narrative I think is really, really helpful, um, going through the pandemic and being stuck in the house or figuring out what is, what is funny about this situation that we’re in. And, you know, also saying, you know, well, sometimes this, this situation isn’t funny, but there are little nuggets in it that I can find, um, that are funny.
Speaker 2 00:07:28 Um, just really it’s for me, it really is a mindfulness exercise. It really is sort of saying I’m going to, uh, acknowledge everything that is happening, um, as sort of, uh, on an equal playing field, I’m going to acknowledge what’s happening inside of myself. Uh, I’m going to note it, and then I’m going to pick and choose from it, what I can use in a humorous way. And that has really helped me, even though I don’t write the column anymore, it’s really helped me in my news diet, in my, in my, uh, social media diet. It’s helped me to sort of take everything and say, like, not everything is attacking me right now. This is information and I can, I can let it go if I need to. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:12 You know, we look at the, the presumed conflict between, you know, um, you know, the leaders of the Republican Congress and the leaders of the democratic Congress. And we like, it’s like, we pretend that they’re not working together to make all this stuff up. Right. Like the idea of Nancy Pelosi sitting behind president Trump and doing that clap, you know, that she did like that wasn’t finely orchestrated and brainstormed around a table in advance, or, you know, when Mitch McConnell of flip-flops and like, he’s not making a phone call in advance to the other side and saying, look, I’m about to flip on this and just be ready because it’s pageantry, it’s pageantry, you know, and I think that your point is exactly right on that. Like, let’s, let’s treat this with a little bit of levity because although it affects people’s lives, like the people who are showing up in the news, it’s just another day at the office for them. Right.
Speaker 2 00:09:13 Exactly. And, you know, and, and I think that can be very disheartening. And I think there are some politicians, you know, maybe some newer ones, or maybe some, some veteran politicians who understand, um, and have a deep desire to do the sort of granular groundwork that is governance. But my suspicion is particularly in this, uh, media saturated age, particularly in this like post post television age that we like the generation of politicians that we have are used to performance, um, and pageantry. And so if you look at, if you look at the ag, you know, activities of the Congress in the same way, as you look at the Oscars or a drag show, um, and I think it right-size this time, it’s like these people put on their costumes, they get in front of cameras. They say the thing that you want to hear, and you think about campaign promises, what does a campaign promise like this is it’s lips thinking for your life. And then you’re
Speaker 1 00:10:15 Like, great. You know,
Speaker 2 00:10:17 You, death dropped on the $15, million minimum wage. You get my vote. But the way that, uh, you know, we all watched, um, schoolhouse rock, we understand that like the way that a bill becomes a law is not by going on TV and, and selling it, you know, and, and, and, you know, razzle, dazzling, it’s, it’s boring and it’s granular and it’s legalees. And so those two things become separated in my mind. And I’m like, I see the things that are being performed for me. And as a viewer and as a participant and as an American citizen, I’m able to say like, I, I can see the pageant as a pageant, and I can see the injustice and the work of governance for what that is and see them as two separate things.
Speaker 1 00:11:01 Yeah. Yeah. So in a broader sense than just politics, um, talk to me about how you’ve learned to find funny in the unfunny and what that, I mean, what that even means, because it can be treacherous land to walk.
Speaker 2 00:11:20 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, a lot of, a lot of the stories that I’ve told about my life, a lot of things that I, you know, I write in a weekly newsletter where I sort of write about what happened in my week or what’s happening in politics. And like a lot of times it starts with this thing is frustrating to me. This is something where I didn’t get what I wanted, and I have learned to not hold everything up to the light, uh, with the question of whether it’s funny or not. But I have learned to say, is this, um, is this something that, um, I can see levity, and I’ll give you a small example. There’s an essay in my book about, um, a time that I went viral in 2002 for writing an article in my college newspaper, where I was mistaken for white supremacist, very common, very common thing. So for listeners who don’t know, I’m a black person. Um, and I was writing what I thought was a satire and everyone else thought was a serious, um, critique of black history. And so it didn’t go over well. And I got thousands of emails, and even as it was going on, even as there was a campus meeting being held about me as a person that nobody knew, um, and everyone thought was,
Speaker 1 00:12:34 I can’t believe you were hiding in the back of the room. That was amazing. They’re like, we gotta find this are Eric Thomas. They’re like
Speaker 2 00:12:42 Forks and Eno and torches. And I’m like, Oh, I don’t know where he went that way. Um, even as I was in it, it was a miserable, miserable moment in my life. Um, even as I was in it, I was like, this has the hallmarks of farce. Um, I’m literally hanging in the back of my, in the back of this auditorium, pretending not to be myself. And so, you know, maybe five, six years later, I got up at a storytelling show and I tried to tell them actually, well, the first thing that happened was the newspaper staff. We all had like a meeting after we all had blown over and we tried to do a drinking game based on the, the hate mail I received. Um, uh, every time somebody said accident turned, turn where we all drink and that went over.
Speaker 1 00:13:28 It’s like, mean tweets. It’s like the predecessor to reading mean tweets. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:13:31 Exactly. And, uh, that went over like a lead balloon. It was terrible. It was awful to sort of read those words, to hear those words. It was too soon and I didn’t have the right focus. I was, I was, I was still the butt of the joke. The years later, I tried to tell the story at a storytelling show and it kind of fell apart on stage because I was, I was not, I was still in it and I was still hurt. And it didn’t, it wasn’t until years later, as I was prepping the, write the book that I realized that, like I had a lot of complicity in that, um, in my own sort of, uh, the bad things that happened to me in that situation. And I had to sort of acknowledge I was in pain and I tried to write to that tire and, and I failed.
Speaker 2 00:14:17 And so acknowledging I failed at this, I put all these other people in a bad situation and they reacted and the minute I did that, and then the minute I acknowledged what I had done wrong, it freed me to right around the rest of the humor. And it became funny to me because it wasn’t that I was using humor to mask places where I failed. It was, I was like, I made a mistake. I’m not the butt of this joke, the situation, as far as, but in the heart of the farts is a person who I have forgiven. And I acknowledged that I did something wrong. And that’s what started this whole thing.
Speaker 1 00:14:55 Yeah. And there’s the healing that we were talking about, you know, um, this certainly, isn’t very funny, but the idea, one of the principles that I very much believe in adhered to over these past couple of years, as I’ve gone through a spiritual path, is that ego can’t survive in the light. And that the minute you turn the light on your ego and you look at it, it begins to fade away because you start to see it for what it is. And it’s not an immediate thing. Always it could be, um, but it’s a gradual thing that it begins to lose its power. And so I love that through looking for the humorous side, you saw the total, the totality of what had happened and that allowed you to kind of let go of, I don’t know, your egoic grasp of like this wasn’t fair.
Speaker 2 00:15:47 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That’s a thing I had gone for years. It had been probably a decade, um, uh, maybe more and always thinking I, I was wronged by all of these people and, um, and I did nothing wrong and, and let’s talk about how funny that is. And it just didn’t work. It didn’t work as a comedic premise. The minute I said, I did something wrong, I, I have a part to play in this. And, um, I forgive myself for making the mistake that got me into the situation. It freed me up to, to see it all in a direct sizing. Yeah, yeah. That’s right.
Speaker 1 00:16:30 You know, I remember after nine 11 happened, um, all the comedy shows went dark. Well, not all of them. Right. Uh, but most of the prominent comedy shows went dark and some of them for several weeks, I remember because I was a fan of David Letterman. I, uh, when I was in high school, I used to watch it with my mom and, uh, every night. And, um, I was in college when nine 11 happened. And I remember like, wow, David Letterman is not on for like weeks. And, um, and then decisions were made in our culture that it’s now appropriate to come back in force with comedy as a sign of resilience and strength and our determination not to let this, um, disrupt our way of life. The point of this story is that not long after that Gilbert Godfried was roasting Hugh Hefner, you know, they had the friars club roast and, uh, he made a joke about, um, nine 11 and the crowd went through this awkward silence.
Speaker 1 00:17:43 Someone yelled too soon. And, and this was, I learned the first time that too soon entered pop culture commentary of like, uh, because it was so widely broadcast and it just caught fire. And now it’s almost like a joke, right? Like someone makes an inappropriate, but like too soon. Right. Um, but you know, it goes to show that there is a healing that needs to happen. There is an appropriate boundary, right? Not everything can be funny to everybody, uh, in the midst of pain, but it’s, by looking through that, like you illustrated and finding the healing in it, uh, that we can then take joy and the randomness of life.
Speaker 2 00:18:30 Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s so fascinating. I did not know that about too soon entering vernacular at that moment. I, I, you know, I’d love to hear what the person who yelled it was thinking, because it’s, it’s really, it’s very wise. It’s this idea of it’s like the person wasn’t saying don’t ever say that, you know, the person was saying, we’re not there yet. And, and, and that acknowledges that we’re all on this continuum and that humor has a place in the continuum, but it’s not right now. And that’s really, I’ll give you, it’s like reading the room, you know, which is every comedian needs to do. I’ve, I’ve like nine 11 comedy is, which is a string sentence or straight trays. But I find it very fascinating because so many comedians really do try and push the envelope and move our culture forward, um, and, and shake an audience and say, we, we can talk about this. And I think there’s ways of doing, I think, of various ways of doing well, but I think there’s a lot of ways of doing it irresponsibly and, um, and responsibility when you’re, when you’re trying to make people laugh is, is a huge thing. I think that’s, that’s sort of my primary sort of motivation is, is this responsible?
Speaker 1 00:19:41 Yeah. Yeah. All right. We’re going to take a break for just a few seconds and, uh, everybody we’ll be back in just 45 seconds. Thanks a lot. Hi, everyone. I’m so happy that you’re listening to refractive podcast. I hope you’re resonating with today’s episode. I’m speaking now, especially to those of you who are leaders in your organizations. If I can ever be of service for your team, I hope you’ll reach out to me. I live my best life by helping others do the same. My services include facilitating leadership meetings, offering workshops, emceeing, employee events, and of course, coaching, I work with individuals and with small groups to help your high performers release, limiting beliefs and step into their full power I’m based in DC. I’m happy to travel and I can also support you virtually through zoom for more information, please visit refractive coaching.com. And now let’s go back to the podcast. All right, everybody, welcome back. I’m here with our Eric Thomas and we are talking about the role of laughter and how it helps to heal and move on, move on and find joy and even thrive. And so Eric, we were talking earlier, uh, before the break about some of the sensitivities around certain types of humor. And I know that we were referring to what the limits of humor are. So what else do you have to share with us on that?
Speaker 2 00:21:08 I think humor is, I think it’s important to think of humor as a communal experience. Um, and so you want to make somebody else laugh, even it’s if, if it’s a conversation on a date or whether it’s family dinner or whether it’s a auditorium, a thousand people in it. And so you obviously can’t be inside of somebody else’s head and know what they think is funny. But I do think that there is a responsibility to be, um, cognizant that you are, there is a consent involved in it. Um, and so humor can’t act, um, as a sort of a catch all for, for everything that you’re trying to do. It has to be, uh, an ex, uh, a give and take. I also think the humor, you know, a lot of times, and we were talking a little bit about this with, uh, with nine 11.
Speaker 2 00:21:57 So many times we use a joke to, to shove the conversation into a new space. Um, uh, and sometime, you know, and depending on the consent in the, in the group, sometimes that’ll work. Somebody breaks the tension or the grief at a funeral with a joke about the deceased in the right space. That is exactly what everybody needs, but you’ve got to know your audience, know your audience. Um, and, um, and also know that, like, it doesn’t take the place of, of true healing. It doesn’t take the place of, it can be a signpost of healing. It can be a path along, uh, uh, it can be a step along the path of healing, but it isn’t healing itself. And it isn’t, you know, when you think about political humor, it also isn’t policy. Um, it is not, humor is not itself social change. Uh, it can be a harbinger of social change, but it is not, it is not a substitute for action.
Speaker 1 00:22:54 Yeah. And I mean, that’s completely evidenced by the white house correspondence dinner, right. Where like the whole nation comes together and pokes fun at all kinds of politics, but it doesn’t change things.
Speaker 2 00:23:07 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, that, it’s up as a pageant, you know, you got journalists and politicians all sitting around, yucking it up and you’re like, I feel like maybe this is all an act.
Speaker 1 00:23:22 There you go. You know, I, as you were talking, I was thinking about married with children. So the old sitcom and how so much of the humor from married with children was about Al Bundy being this caveman, who was like not accepting of, uh, progress. And a lot of the jokes were about his lesbian neighbor. A lot of the jokes were about his wife’s role in life. And, um, and you know, I remember sitting down and watching that show with my brothers and like my mom not approving of us. Um, but it, it did kind of, it did kind of desensitize the topic of people who are resistant to social change, even though it was Al Bundy making so many jokes about like, uh, his perception of like liberals and whatever. How do I say this? Everybody kind of shared in the pageantry of the humor and it really did bring to the forefront, um, an opportunity to, uh, see this societal issue a little more clearly.
Speaker 2 00:24:35 Yeah. Yeah. I think television is so has such an interesting role in this because so often we do have contrarian characters, Al Bundy, um, uh, Archie bunker is probably the most famous and, you know, there are ways, but, you know, there are ways that that contrarian character is elevated and there are ways that contrarian character satirize. And so, like, it is, it is always introducing a conversation and again, like television isn’t social change, but it does for better, or for worse, married with children did put a lesbian character on television. And that is that’s. That is I think, a step on a continuum, you know, to say like, you know, we’re probably about the same age. Like I don’t recall seeing, um, gay, lesbian and transgender characters on television. And when I was, um, when I was a kid, um, uh, besides like very few instances and I didn’t, I wasn’t allowed to watch my children, but I was aware that there was a lesbian on my own marriage children, and for much of my childhood and even teenage years, um, uh, gain his queerness, didn’t have a name.
Speaker 2 00:25:46 Um, and, and it wasn’t, it didn’t exist. And so the minute you put language to it, um, you, you move it along, you move it further into, um, into the light. And that is, I think that’s very interesting, you know, and I think the legacy of some of these shows are, you know, Archie bunker still holds up, but then you look at, you look at some old episodes of all in the family and you’re like, Oh, I don’t know that I would listen to, I don’t, I don’t want to, I don’t want to put this in my brain, but on the other side, it’s like, that’s the way that people were talking back then. That’s right. It was a reflection of the society, but there was a kernel there that says, I am reflecting the conflict that I see in society in a bit of a fun house mirror. Um, and I’ve done the processing to figure out what our solution might be. I think, married with children and all in the family and the Jeffersons all offer solutions for if society is interested in taking them,
Speaker 1 00:26:46 Right. Because, you know, and we’ll move on from married with children. But like, uh, you know, the thing is that, although Al Bundy seems to be the hero, he is the protagonist of married with children. Those show writers, those show writers who crafted Al Bundy in his crude, uh, every man hero status also made the decision to put a lesbian on TV. Right. And so it goes to show that’s what I was trying to say earlier that I didn’t, I didn’t articulate very well that even though my brothers watched it for the macho humor, there was a bigger story being told that was one layer beneath that it helps society to become less sensitive and more open to considering, uh, new topics.
Speaker 2 00:27:41 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I like, I write a little bit for television now, and it’s been very fascinating to me to see your one television is such a huge collaborative process between from writers to executives. Uh, you know, obviously the people you see on screen and every step of the way it can go one way or another, it can go wrong. And, you know, so like a kernel of good intention can turn into mockery or a kernel of mockery can turn into something that is, um, pushes a culture forward. Um, and so it’s, it’s exciting and it’s also like dangerous. And you think everything that we receive from the news to sitcoms to dramas is movies, uh, is narrative and narrative teaches us what our values are. Um, and so I don’t think it’s, I don’t, I think it’s really important to seriously consider what we are watching and, and, and to ask the questions like we’re asking, like what, what, what does this character do for us?
Speaker 2 00:28:44 And how can we help that character achieve the end in a, like, in terms of society that we’re looking forward to achieve? It is something that I think is never finished, you know, like, and I think that we will always look back and say like, Oh, we couldn’t, we had a great opportunity for this character. We look will, and grace could have been, this could have been more of that. I think those things are true, but I also think that there is a, it comes down to community communal consent. And if the community is saying, we are not going to watch something that doesn’t, that we don’t, that doesn’t fit into our narrative, you know, what effects can come in narrative have nobody’s watching it. So, you know, there’s a, there’s a strange give and take. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:29:27 So, you know, one of the most amazing, uh, an extraordinary experiences in life is when you lose yourself in laughter with another person. Yeah. You know, and we’ve all been there when we’re with a friend and something catches us off guard as hilarious, and you just can’t stop laughing. And one person laughing, causes the other to laugh. And it’s just this cycle. And I wonder, especially with your experience of standing on a stage with the goal of making people belly laugh, how has that role of the physicality of laughter worked into the calculus that you apply to what you do every day?
Speaker 2 00:30:06 Oh, that’s a great question. There were times where, um, well, like I, you know, I host them off storytelling, um, show live and we’ll be in the theater of 400 people. And there are times where laughter moves like energy across the room and you become a feels like I’ve, I feel like Tom cruise or minority report, you know, where I’m like moving things around on the screen, a little dials and switching things. And it’s you, it is, it is. And it’s honestly like, so mix a metaphor. It’s like surfing where you sort of consents, you sense the people who are, are, are really tapped in and you can like, see it in their bodies. You can like see that energy, like jump off of them and onto the person next to them. And especially when it’s in the dark and you, you sense, there is laughter there was enjoyment coming from someplace that you can’t see that is so phenomenal to me.
Speaker 2 00:31:07 And it reminds me that we like that it’s laughter is contagious, that there is, uh, also a sort of, uh, an, uh, I believe the term has anaerobic, uh, quality to it that it is like compressing your diaphragm and pushing air out and taking air in. And so we are sharing the same air. We are, uh, like metaphorically and also physically. And that is so deeply important to me. I don’t know when I’m on stage or when I’m writing on my laptop. I have no idea who is going to be, uh, receiving the jokes that I’m putting out. But what I do know is that we all have bodies that function in very similar ways. And, um, and so what I’m always trying to do is like to capture the mind, but also to like prod the body into, into movement. And that is a really exciting potential for me.
Speaker 1 00:32:05 You talked about how laughter moves like an energy, almost like a, a stone that you drop in a pond and the ripples of it just kind of flow out and, you know, I’m a speaker and, um, and a facilitator. And so when I’m in front of a group, I know exactly what you mean, and it’s not the laughter that I go for. It’s the, it’s the sparkle behind the eyes and is, and, and, um, you know, as a speaker that there, there is, there are few things as extraordinary as speaking and watching someone turn on watching someone connect and, uh, and, and the people around them don’t know that the person has connected, but you see it ripple out because we put out this energy, right? We put out this enthusiasm that people feel without even realizing it. And that’s the most amazing thing. And you watch the spark just catch from person to person, to person, to person, and with laughter it’s the same way. And it’s, it’s just a beautiful phenomenon. I love that. You brought that up.
Speaker 2 00:33:12 Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite things is I work extemporaneously a lot. I don’t write it. You know, when I’m live, I don’t write a lot of my material. And so I’m not a standup comedian. And so like as a standup comedian, that would be a dangerous thing, but it’s somebody who’s hosting shows in a humorous way. It’s fine. Um, time for me, I don’t know. I’m not giving anybody advice, but one of the things that’s exciting to me is knowing when I’m approaching a punchline, um, in something that I’m going to say, and there is like that, that anticipatory silence where we all sort of are plugged in and there might be, there might be people who are like, Oh, I bet you something funny is coming. Or there might be people who are like, I’m just listening to this story. And then I drop it in.
Speaker 2 00:33:53 And it is, it is like hearing the burst of laughter coming from nothing is, it is the most powerful experience that I, I I’ve ever had. And I, I chase it because what it says is that in that instant, we have all changed. We have all gone from this neutral or this anticipatory state to this active, energetic state. And, and I think that every time you laugh, it changes you. Um, and that is, that is so deeply important. It’s so deep. It’s so core to who I am as a person. Um, I have always seeking to be changed by laughter. I like, and it feels, it honestly feels like, like atomic, like it’s just something that like was, was not there. And then suddenly was the big bang and it can happen over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 00:34:48 Okay. So I need to break topic for a second because I’ve not been able to stop thinking about your Sylvia Plath wallpaper. It’s killing me. It is amazing. I wish the people. So if you’re watching this on YouTube, you know what I’m saying, but if you’re listening to the podcast, you can’t see, but, uh, go on YouTube. I just, it’s stunning. It’s stunning. I want to buy that wallpaper. So, uh, anyway,
Speaker 2 00:35:12 Well, it’s from Ellie Cashman. Um, and I apologize. So YouTube viewers, I don’t, I think I forgot that we were going to be, uh, on YouTube is why would I look better now if I, if I turn on a light, um, anyway, so apologies to everybody. Um, but, uh, yeah, it’s from Ellie Cashman and she’s a designer in the Netherlands. And when I, we moved into this house and built a pandemic, we decided the fat, um, uh, since no one would see anything, but the square around us, it might as well be, uh, like, you know, Rococo and
Speaker 1 00:35:45 It’s amazing. So anyway, okay. I just needed, I just couldn’t hold it anymore. I was about to burst. Um, so I want to talk about, you know, people who listened to this podcast know that spirituality is my jam. It’s, uh, how I try to connect with my audience, people who are kind of feeling this, um, little spark of awakening happen and they kind of want to dig deeper into it. So I want to ask you, um, do you think laughter is spiritual?
Speaker 2 00:36:12 So, I mean, I think anything that changes that shocks us out of our neutral state of sort of passive, uh, experience of life is spiritual. Um, and I think, I think, like I said, that there it is a step on a path, um, toward healing and that is very exciting. Um, and I think that taps into our spirit. Um, I, I also, you know, I think the, the more extreme emotions, anger obviously, but like sorrow grief, laughter joy. Those have, I, I think they, they function at a higher level. Um, and so much of our lives, I think for a lot of us are really just sort of locked into neutrality. We’re sort of going the wrong or doing your day, you’re annoyed, blah, blah, blah. Um, and getting to jump out of the neutral, um, is I think stunning and I think it can, I don’t know.
Speaker 2 00:37:13 I think, I think a lot, actually, when I think about laughter I think a lot about, uh, the one time a year, every year that I do bigger, me yoga. I always think that I’m a Bikram yoga person and unfortunately I’m not. Um, but I think, you know, it’s a very physically strenuous, it’s like 95 degrees in the room, a hundred percent humidity or whatever, I guess that’s water, but I don’t know. I don’t know what humidity is. Um, but it’s an hour and a half of strenuous exercise. And then at the end of it, you’re like completely drained. You’re soaking soaking with sweat and you lie down and you sort of just still in this position called Savasana and you’re supposed to just sort of like be there in the chorus pose. Um, and it is the most, every time I do it, uh, I think that I’m doing it wrong because it is, has the most energy, um, inside of it that I like I experienced the entire time because it is not neutral.
Speaker 2 00:38:11 It is a space where all of the feeling that I felt like that I’ve, that I’ve worked through in the class, everything that I’ve squeezed out of my muscles, everything that I’ve sort of been like pushing out of my brain space so I can just concentrate comes flooding back in and flooding and floating to the surface of myself. And I’m all that raw emotion. And it does that. That is the feeling that I think laughter and provoke as well, this feeling of being your true yes. Interior raw self in a really glorious way that has so much potential.
Speaker 1 00:38:46 Yes. So I mean, Oh my God, so many, so many thoughts and concepts came into my mind while you were talking and you know, I’ve, I’ve thought a lot about laughter over the years and how laughter uh, typically relates to surprise, right? Like you’re catch people off guard, but I want to kind of cross reference that with something that was so interesting that I learned. Um, I’m trying to think of which book I heard it in. Ah, I can’t remember. But um, this book said that when you are in grief, when you cry, when you’re mourning, um, it is a form of meditation. It’s a form of lower vibration meditation because meditation is losing yourself in the moment. And so by experiencing this utter grief, you are losing yourself in the moment and uh, nothing else exists, but the now in that moment, and so, uh, as you were speaking, I was like, wow, laughter is meditation. Um, fear like utter fear and terror is meditation because these are times when you get lost in the present, the ever present now and nothing else exists, but what you’re experiencing in that moment, and I love it. You actually mentioned in the beginning of the podcast that, um, laughter has something to do with being in the present. And uh, I love the idea of laughing as a form of meditation, um, which is the absolute fastest, most direct way to spiritual growth.
Speaker 2 00:40:27 I love that. That is vetted. That’s you put it so succinctly and then that totally matches with the experience that I have, the thing that I’m always chasing. And it’s also a nice, you know, for somebody like me, who you don’t have a lot of a fair amount of energy. I come from a long line of anxious people. And um, and so it’s sometimes hard to like sort of sit down with my meditation app or, you know, sort of just quiet my mind. And so sometimes I’m like, well let me just put on a comedy podcast. And, and that works in the same way. Like it really, it takes me someplace else. I go lapping alone in my car, listening to somebody else, uh, on the radio or on a podcast. It is, it is. I love it. I love thinking about it as meditation because I do come out of it and in a different state and that’s phenomenal.
Speaker 1 00:41:18 That’s right. And I mean like for the listeners, because so many of us, me too, even though I’ve been working at this, like meditation can be so difficult, but I got to tell you when you slept, Benita comes on like that is meditation because nothing exists. But me and Madge like dancing,
Speaker 2 00:41:38 Oh, don’t even get me started on like the, like the needle drop on songs. I mean, you know, like I, you know, I haven’t been, I haven’t been out of the house in a year, um, essentially, except for, to like the grocery grips I pick up. But the minute I’m able to go back to a club and I can hear Robin’s dancing on my own. I’m going to be in outer space. I’m going to be floating around Venus because of that, like that experience of just sort of tapping into, and it’s just raw emotion. It’s remembering the first time you ever heard it, it’s remembering, um, you know, whatever emotions it calls up, but it’s also being deeply present in, you know, and moving your body and letting it be inside of your body. I think laughter is the same thing I really do. That’s amazing.
Speaker 1 00:42:23 I wonder if we think about like going to the, going to the movies as an escape, but I wonder if it’s not an escape. I wonder if it’s like a surrender to the present, you know what, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:42:35 Oh, I love that. And here’s the thing. Okay. Let me give me my, like my small soapbox. One of the things that’s frustrating about the movie industry right now, not to like put on my Hollywood hat, but like one of the things that’s frustrated against that like, like just comedy is too straightforward. Comedies are not being greenlit as much. Like everything is sort of a temple and that’s exciting. You go to see a Marvel movie and you do, you know, everybody’s experiencing that tension, that excitement and that’s meditative as well, I suppose. And, but like there is something that is just so juicy and exciting about sitting in a theater full of people all go far, you know, bridesmaids or big business or, you know, something that is just
Speaker 1 00:43:17 Like a big business.
Speaker 2 00:43:20 I’m pulling the throwbacks it’s and like to go in and say like, I’m going to have my hands covered in popcorn, sitting in this weird seat that I don’t know what else has been in the seat. And I’m going to be in another meditative plane with these other people, these strangers that’s magic. That’s why movies are magic.
Speaker 1 00:43:38 Yes. Oh, I love that. That’s amazing. So, um, uh, Oh, thank you for that. As we wind down to the end of the podcast, um, I’d love to hear what you’re working on and uh, where life has brought you today.
Speaker 2 00:43:52 Yeah, well, I’m, I’m writing for a couple of TV series, um, Dickinson on Apple TV plus and um, um, better things on FX. Those seasons will presumably for Dickinson. I am, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:44:04 Almost I was thinking about the wallpaper and I was like, should I say Dickinson or not? Because I didn’t know if I say, should I say Dickinson or Sylvia Plath? And I’m like, I’m a Sylvia Plath, but I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:44:14 Yeah. The reason I have this particular wallpaper is because I watched the first season of Dickinson before I wrote for the show and I was like, I want that wallpaper. Um, so it’s, I love, I love that you clocked it. That’s amazing. So I’m writing those seasons that I wrote on will be out in 2022 on the respective platforms. Um, I have a young adult novel coming out, um, in 2022 as well. Um, that it’s great for readers 14 and up. I think adults will really enjoy it as well. It’s a very funny novel tentatively called Ferris. Um, but I’m not sure. So just Google my name. Um, and that’s, you know, that’s what I’m working on.
Speaker 1 00:44:48 Um, and if people want to soak up some of the craft that you have released, um, how do they find you? Where do they get it? Um,
Speaker 2 00:44:58 So the easiest way I I’m on social media, my Twitter handle is OurEric. Oureric. That’s also my Instagram. Um, I write a weekly humor newsletter if it comes out on Sundays, if you want to sort of way to end your week or begin your week, depending on how you see a Sunday, um, with, uh, with humor, um, uh, it’s a great place to do it. You can find that at REricThomas.substack.com or just going to my website Rericthomas.com.

Speaker 1 00:45:34 Okay. So I have some rapid fire questions that I like to, uh, I like to put my guests through. And, um, so are you ready for this? Sometimes you’ll have a question to answer sometimes you’ll just need to, uh, complete a sentence. Okay. Okay. All right. I see Godwin.
Speaker 2 00:45:52 Oh, Oh. I, uh, the first thought I had was when children laugh. So I’m going to go with that.
Speaker 1 00:45:56 Oh, I love that. Okay. What does prayer sound like?
Speaker 2 00:46:03 It sounds like a magic trick to me. Abracadabra. What is grace? Grace is a forgiveness for yourself, forgiveness for others, forgiveness for the universe.

Speaker 1 00:46:17 I find joy when
Speaker 2 00:46:21 I can recognize and celebrate what other people are proud of or happy about, or, um, what I wish for
Speaker 1 00:46:34 My favorite thing is:
Speaker 2 00:46:38 Cake.
Speaker 1 00:46:42 Yes, no comment. And last question. Uh, my definition of love is,
Speaker 2 00:46:49 Oh, absolute comfort. Uh, even in the midst of tribulation, um, or dispute, um, comfort. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:47:02 All right, Eric, thank you so, so much for joining me on refractive and, uh, and for sharing your light and your gift with us. And, um, it’s just been wonderful for me.
Speaker 2 00:47:14 No, thank you. It’s been wonderful for me. This is such a life-giving conversation. So thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 00:47:18 All right. Well, everybody, uh, enjoy your day and, uh, don’t forget. Aim your light. You have been listening to refractive podcast, and this is Johnny G. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, do me a favor, give it a share on social media, or if you’re in the podcast app, give it a rating. If you’re on YouTube click, like it really does make a difference in the search results. I am a speaker, coach and facilitator based in Washington, DC, but I work in person and remotely with people who are ready to step with clarity into their most authentic life. If I can be of service, reach out to me, JO****@****************ng.com have an amazing day. Be good to each other and always Aim your light.

This episode features a powerful meditation enhancer. Use this recording to kickstart a meditation and bring you deeper into your stillness. From there, you can take your meditation session in any direction that feels right.

For similar content, try this episode: Guided Meditation- What’s My Purpose?

Visit RefractiveCoaching.com or RefractivePodcast.com for more helpful information. Additional Content is also available on the Refractive YouTube channel found here.

This episode of Refractive features a raw, powerful, inspiring keynote speech. Johnny G tells the story of his experience with darkness, the loss of hope, and the unexpected people who pulled him back from oblivion. The keynote speech ends with a powerful lesson that enabled him to let go of the beliefs that kept him in chains.

For information on speaking, facilitation, and custom workshops, visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com/speaking.

Many Refractive Episodes are also posted on the Refractive Youtube Channel.

If this episode resonates with you, you’ll find similar messaging in these episodes: Surrender to Greatness, Making Peace with Our Dark Side, and The Ancient Truths of Acceptance and PLINKO.

Byron Katie, author and spiritual teacher, is referenced in the keynote address. You can find her website at byronkatie.com.

An automatic transcript follows. Please excuse any inaccuracies from the software.

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there ready for you. my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our life. This is refractive . Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of refractive. When I look at all of the things, I think that I was

Speaker 1 00:00:55 Born to do the number one
Speaker 0 00:01:00 And calling that I feel is public speaking. Ever since I was a kid, I have enjoyed immensely getting on a stage and speaking before groups at people. And today I believe that ultimately, this will be the way that I serve the world. This will be the way that I offer the most help, the most support and shine, the most light out to my fellow humans. So when I get a chance to do some public speaking, it really is something that’s powerful for me. It taps into one of the most authentic and powerful places within me as a being. And I really get a lot of joy and energy out of it. So I want to share with you a keynote address. It is raw, it’s personal, it’s powerful. And I hope it helps you to question those times when you believe something that’s holding you back because often there’s a lot more to that story than what we’ve just accepted as truth. Enjoy.

Speaker 1 00:02:18 Who do you think you are? I’ll tell you that even two or three years ago, I would have told you that I was a deeply damaged person. And that goes all the way back to adolescence. You see high school for me was, uh, it was extraordinary in that, uh, it was just a really brutal four years and you know, lots of kids go through bullying. And, um, but I just got to tell you that, um, I made an easy target and I look back at those dark four years, walking down the corridors, I can see the pale blue lockers. I can see the rough brick details inside the building and those indestructable vinyl floor tiles that we’ve all seen in school buildings. And, um, and it was just a really uncomfortable place for me. And, uh, everybody knew it.

Speaker 1 00:03:47 And so as I went through this experience where starting at the bus stop, then on the bus, then in the school yard, then in homeroom, then in the corridor between classes, then in each class, then waiting for the bus. Then on the bus and every single moment, every day it was horrific. It brought me to the point of wanting to kill myself. And it brought me to a place where I no longer felt able to give myself to anyone. I just couldn’t let people see the loser that I believed I was because I knew that the 375 people in my class couldn’t be wrong.

Speaker 1 00:05:10 And while I might not have agreed with them on that first day, after a couple of days where it doesn’t let up, I folded that in to my identity and it began to color who I thought I was. So I drank because starting at the age of 16 and to be honest, even a few times before that, I guess really starting at 13, but drinking seriously from the age of 16. When I drank, I felt like a star. I felt sexy and smart. I felt like the people in the room, the bar wanted me to be there. I didn’t feel at best tolerated the way I felt before. And so I drank because once I got access to the way that felt there was, there was nothing that was going to stand between me and feeling that way.

Speaker 1 00:06:30 I was a binge drinker and, uh, I never wanted a glass of wine with dinner. I wanted to drink to get drunk. I wanted to drink, to feel free of the horror story I believed I was in. And the worst part was that I over time began to pick up that hammer that my classmates were hitting me with. And I began to hit myself with it. And it was only when I was drinking that I would stop. When I moved into my professional life, that became another way that I started to get relief from the, the torture that I was putting myself through. You see, when I, when I would go to work, I could make my boss proud and I would get a Pat on the back and appreciated and all of those things and my colleagues, the customers, and my boss made me feel for those minutes, a way that I couldn’t make myself feel, they made me think of myself as worthwhile and talented and good.

Speaker 1 00:08:03 And so at night on the weekends, whatever I would drink and I was a star. And during the day I would work hard and I was a star because let me tell you something, nothing makes you work harder than when your job is one of the only ways you feel good about yourself. And so I got promoted six times in eight years. And, uh, my company was so happy to develop me and invest in me because they saw how hard I worked, you know, but eventually these two, these two coping mechanisms, the drinking and the work they collided and my drinking started to get in. My drinking, started to cause problems for me at work. And when that happened, I had to choose one. And the more realistic choice for me was to pick my career. So I stopped drinking. It was as simple as that.

Speaker 1 00:09:08 And I continued on this path and I continued to do well at work, but all of a sudden I had no more medicine to make me feel okay, outside of work, I had nothing else to soothe me. Nothing else would work. And so I began to amplify other compulsive behaviors that took the place of alcohol. I began to binge eat. I shopped compulsively to make myself feel good, to make myself feel good, to make myself feel worthwhile. Like I had a life worth living. I would use sex and hookups and dating as a way to try to make myself feel good. And I really spun out of control in that area.

Speaker 1 00:10:02 I worked my butt off. I worked so hard. And so these are the ways that I stopped drinking and still found a way to muddle through life day after day. But here’s the thing. When I traded out one compulsion for four or five, man, my life got chaotic quick. And I spiraled into a really, really dark place. I found myself 400 and twenty-five pounds diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder. I was $35,000 in credit card debt. I was alone. I couldn’t fly anymore. And I had a travel based job. I stuck out that job for a while, but the day my father died, I got that call from my sister. And, um, I was in New York. I lived in new Orleans and, uh, you see at my size at 425 pounds, I was so big that sometimes, usually the seatbelt extender would work, but not always.

Speaker 1 00:11:46 Some of them were too small. They aren’t all the same length. And, uh, when I would walk down the aisle, you could just see the terror in people’s eyes, hoping that I wasn’t going to sit next to them because, um, I took up a full seat and a half. So the day my father died, I had to book a window seat on a sold-out flight. And I never booked a window seat. I always booked an ILC because I could, you know, spill out into the aisle a little bit. Um, but this time it wasn’t possible.

Speaker 1 00:12:29 And there I was seated against the window and the middle seat was empty and someone walked up and they refused to take that seat. So that day, that same day, my father had died and I’m leaning against the window trying to black out the world in so much pain. And the person refused to take their seat on the sold-out flight. Now this wasn’t the first time this happened. This was the third time this had happened to me on the sold-out flight. But let me paint this picture for you. The flight attendant has to find a volunteer, willing to sit in that seat, or we can’t take off.

Speaker 1 00:13:28 So imagine what it feels like on the day your father died to have the flight attendant, begging people, going to petite people and begging them to come sit next to me, monster that I was now, it’s not really their fault. I mean, it wasn’t fair for them to have to be put in such an uncomfortable situation, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t painful. So she found someone and this small lady took the seat. I thanked her for being willing to sit next to me. And over the course of the entire flight, the flight attendant came by and continued to offer her gifts, food beverages, all in appreciation for being willing to take this seat. And it was in that moment that I decided, uh, I, I just couldn’t do this job anymore.

Speaker 1 00:14:39 So I quit right there. The next morning I called my boss and I said, I will never get on a plane again for you. And, uh, so I’ll give you 90 days. Notice if I can work from home and train my replacement, but that’s it. I won’t do it well there. I found myself, as I mentioned, $35,000 in debt, no savings. I moved into my mother’s house. There was no room. I would carry a mattress into the living room every night. And that’s where I would sleep attached to my C-PAP machine in my thirties, six prescriptions, a machine to make sure I didn’t choke on myself at night.

Speaker 1 00:15:36 No friends, no romance, no job. And I just, I was ready. I was ready to sink into darkness. I was just ready. I mean, there’s no bouncing back from that. Surely if someone could come back from that, they would film documentaries about that person. It would be extraordinary. There is no hope. I did end up going to a therapist. And as I walked into the therapist office, I hear a call from the back. This high pitched squeaky voice saying, just have a seat there. And they in the open office, I’ll, I’ll be in, in a second. Okay. So I sat there and a few minutes later, this elderly woman rolled herself in, in a wheelchair, close the door and squeaked at me how delighted she was to meet me.

Speaker 1 00:16:47 I can hear that voice right now. It’s it was on the phone when I made the appointment. I wasn’t sure what to make of it. So over the course of this session, I told her that I felt broken and damaged and that I just, I just needed to be restored to. I didn’t need to be happy. I just needed to be restored to a basic, realistic way to cope every day. And at some point over the course of that session, she looked at me and her eyes got big. And she said, Oh, my, your capacity to love is enormous. I see it. I see it shining out of you. It’s pink. It’s shimmery. Oh, I can see it. It’s beautiful. It’s very powerful. And I’m sitting there, I’m like this woman has lost her marbles. Like, what do you mean? You can see my love shining out and it’s pink and shimmery.

Speaker 1 00:17:57 But there was something that happened as she told me that she saw the love pouring out of me. I believed in just a small way that I was no, that I wasn’t damaged beyond repair. I reached out to a former boss in Orlando and I told her that I, uh, was going to restart my life. And I was going to figure out a way to just not hurt. Just have a reasonable life. She told me, Oh my gosh, please come to Orlando. Please come here. You can work for me. I can’t pay you what you’re used to making, but I can give you a little something and you can do projects for me, uh, while you job hunt, come on back.

Speaker 1 00:19:07 So I went back to Orlando. I had worked there probably, I don’t know, six years before that. And this company just rallied around me and found miscellaneous jobs for me to do, but the most incredible part of it, not only was I so appreciative. Oh, not to mention a former colleague opened up his house and let me stay. But not just that. The fact is there were about 10 people in that department where I was, and they rallied around me like pillars and just lifted me up all 425 pounds on me. And I’ll tell you, my spirit weighed a lot more than that. And they lifted me up and they were so happy to see me walk through the door every morning.

Speaker 1 00:20:20 And they wanted to sit next to me. They wanted to sign birthday cards for me, and they wanted to have lunch together. And I don’t know, I don’t know what happened. And I don’t know why, but these people loved me in a way that I couldn’t love myself. And I was only there for 11 months, but I’ll tell you what that boss and that team saved my life. It didn’t matter who I thought I was because they told me who they thought I was. They planted a seed. They gave me an idea and I don’t know what they were selling, but I bought it.

Speaker 1 00:21:34 I bought it. And that relaunched me. All of the sudden, I ended up in a job with more responsibility and more money than I had ever had before I moved to a city that I grew to love deeply. And I began to invest in finding out who I truly was behind all of these awful stories that I believed about myself. Who was I? Why was it that those 10 or 12 people back in Orlando saw something magnificent and worthy of love in me? Why couldn’t I see that? So I started to dig. It was painful. It took years.

Speaker 1 00:22:52 I learned that I was a rageful person. I would have told you there was no, I would have argued with you that I was not rageful. I learned that I was a horrible gossip. I’ve learned that I was hypersensitive and insecure. I learned so much about the triggers, but also the drivers and the values in me that made me who I was. And that colored my day. And just like little paving stones that lead the way to your neighbor’s front door. I moved from exercise to exercise from teacher to teacher, from book to book, to podcast, a podcast, all of these focused on helping me learn who I was at my core.

Speaker 1 00:23:50 And it all culminated with an extraordinarily powerful teaching from a lady by the name of Byron Katie, Byron, Katie, look her up, do yourself a favor. And she taught me that all suffering, not all pain, all suffering originates from a story that we believe that argues with reality. I’ll say it again. All suffering begins with a story that we believe that argues with reality. My classmates shouldn’t have treated me this way. That’s a story I believed I shouldn’t be this overweight. That’s a story I believed it’s unfair. I shouldn’t have had the life. I had the story. I believed all of these things were beliefs that argued with reality. My classmates shouldn’t have treated me this way. Okay. It’s what happened. It was what happened.

Speaker 1 00:25:49 Maybe I shouldn’t have treated myself that way. Maybe I shouldn’t have accepted that. Maybe I should have gotten help. Maybe I shouldn’t have believed what they said about me, because I’m going to tell you that the pain may cause me over four years was nothing compared to the 15 years that followed the pain. I caused myself. I shouldn’t have done that to myself. It has nothing to do with them life. Wasn’t fair. Yeah. I believe that. And when I believe it, it hurts. Is it not fair? I don’t know their causes and effects. It might be things I don’t understand. But when I believe it’s not fair. It hurts. When I stopped thinking about how unfair everything is, I can let it go. So it’s my thoughts. It’s my belief systems that say reality is wrong. And shouldn’t be what it is. Those are the things that hurt me. My father shouldn’t have died that pur that woman should have wanted to take the seat next to me on the plane, that flight attendant shouldn’t have bribed the other lady with drinks for being willing to sit next to me. These are things I believed. And when I believe them, they hurt.

Speaker 1 00:27:21 And let me tell you today. When I have a thought about myself, that is not positive. I investigate that bad boy. Is it true? Is it true? So let me ask you, I’m going to go back to the first words that I said today. Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? Do you think you’re fat? Do you think you’re broken? Do you think you’re a mom whose kid should respect her more? Do you think you’re someone who’s underappreciated at work? Do you think your sales goals are unreasonable and you’re stuck in that situation?

Speaker 1 00:28:20 Do you believe you’re going to be alone forever? Do you believe if you demand what you really are worth? You’ll have to experience it by yourself. What do you believe? Who do you think you are? Because I have news for you. The person you think you are is the person you are. Let me do for you. What that therapist did for me. Let me shake you out of your fog. You don’t deserve to live a life in that fog. You were born for magnificence. You were born for glory and joy. And if you don’t have glory and joy in a magnificent life, you are the only person who can fix it.

Speaker 1 00:29:25 You are the only person powerful enough to stop yourself. The only thing strong enough to cut a diamond is a diamond. No one can hold you back. No one can stop you. Nothing is impossible. Nothing is impossible unless you make it. So each one of us creates the world we live in. Do you believe the political chaos is ruining society? Okay. Well then enjoy your world of chaos because that’s the world you’ve created. Do you believe the fighting that people are doing is your business. Okay? You can have that. The universe will give you what you want. Is that what you want? Do you want to live in that, in that world? Go for it. You can have it. Or do you believe the fighting and the anxiety and the stress? Do you believe that’s their business and not yours? Because the minute you believe it’s not your business to get involved in that fighting the minute you drop it and you have peace. And so I’m going to leave you with a challenge.

Speaker 1 00:30:56 The challenge is the next time you absorb and accept a thought that is negative. I’ll never make that sales goal. No one wants to go out with me. I can’t save up money. I’m going to be alone for the rest of my life. I really deserved it. The next time you believe a thought like that, just, just investigate it. Just look at it and say, is it true? Is it true? Very rarely, should a negative thought ever be true. And if you can’t come up with an answer other than yes, then go to someone who loves you and ask them, do you think this is true? And let them do for you? What you can do for yourself. Let them shine. The light on you, that you were born to shine on yourself. And you will find over time that you will blow brighter and you will cause ripples in the people around you that will never reach the shore. That’s what you were born for. It’s your superpower. Who do you think you are? I know who you are already. It’s time to find out.

Speaker 0 00:32:58 This is Johnny G and you have been listening to refractive podcast. If you enjoyed today’s content, please subscribe. And either like the episode or give it a rating, it helps to prioritize this content in search engine results. I’m a coach speaker and facilitator based in Washington, DC. I work in person and remotely with those who are ready to step into an authentic life and a fulfilling career. If I can be of service, visit refractive coaching.com or email me at jo****@****************ng.com. I’d love to hear your comments and feedback on the podcast, or maybe you have a topic you’d like to hear. You can find me on social media, on Facebook and YouTube @refractivecoaching and on Twitter and Instagram. @refractivelife. As you go through your day, I hope you remember the magnificence that is your birthright. Be good to each other, and don’t forget to aim your light.

Humanity has battled its darker impulses since the dawn of free will. Why haven’t we learned to drop our dark side? In this episode Johnny G covers the relative nature of good vs. bad, the impact of love and fear on our behaviors, the role of awareness and balance in correcting our path, finding self-compassion, and a powerful method for regaining balance of our energy after a negative experience.

Episode Resources:

The Poem “Autobiography in Five Short Chapters by Portia Nelson can be found here.

The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner is an extraordinary spiritual text. It’s for sale wherever you buy books- I really enjoy the audiobook version I got from Audible- but there is a free PDF version here.

To learn more about Refractive Coaching visit www.refractivecoaching.com

Caroline Myss’ books can be found wherever spiritual books are sold. I enjoyed Anatomy of the Spirit and Sacred Contracts. She has an especially good episode on Oprah’s Supersoul Conversation podcast, which you can find on Apple Podcasts by clicking here.

If you enjoyed this type of topic, you might also enjoy these Refractive Podcast episodes: Surrender to Greatness and From Addiction to Self Acceptance.

An automatic transcript follows; please excuse inaccuracies from the transcription software.

Speaker 0 00:00:02 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you, and we’ll wait for you. And as long as you, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive. Hello everybody.
Speaker 1 00:00:45 This is Johnny G with another episode of refractive today’s topic is one that was very important to my own spiritual journey. I want to talk about how to deal with our darkness. Um, the more base qualities in us and some people call it the shadow. Um, how is it that we can come to a place of harmony between the ideals of personal and spiritual growth and the tendency that is there to lie, to cover up our shame or, uh, to take things that don’t belong to us or violence. So that’s really what we’re going to talk about today. I hope it’s going to be a topic of some value for you as well. I want to say right off the bat that this is my philosophy and it may not apply for you. I want to encourage you to take what has value and discard everything else.
Speaker 1 00:01:40 What I will say is that I’ve thought a lot about this. I’ve meditated on it. I’ve read a lot about it. And they, these are some conclusions that I’ve come up with that have helped me to move forward in peace with my human nature and to stop rejecting myself rejecting these parts of myself that I used to believe were faulty. Um, but that I no longer feel that way today. And because that ability to stop rejecting parts of myself has been so valuable. I felt that it was a worthwhile episode to dig a little bit deeper into. So let’s go, we all have parts of us that we would consider to be dark. It is a part of human nature and, uh, we tend to seek to get rid of it to suppress it. We’ve all heard stories about people who were raised in a very strict household and the moment they were able to get out from that pressure.
Speaker 1 00:02:46 Uh, they went crazy and really sowed a lot of wild oats. And, um, this is an important lesson for us to learn about the nature of balance. Another thing that is essential to the philosophy I’ve developed about, um, dealing with my light and dealing with my darkness is the concept of love versus fear. I’ve talked about love and fear being on two ends of a continuum before, in other episodes, it was Caroline Miss, M Y S S who is a, she’s a spiritual teacher. She’s the first person I ever heard talk about it this way, but ever since I heard her, um, my ears perked up when other spiritual teachers had talked about it too. So it is a fairly widely discussed concept in spiritual circles. So the concept of love and fear States that we can never be moving towards both love and fear at the same time.
Speaker 1 00:03:52 So I’m going to repeat that we can never be moving towards both love and fear at the same time, we can go back and forth very quickly, but in each moment we are either moving towards love or moving towards fear. Now what’s interesting is that this is not love versus hate. The idea is that love is the source of all high vibration, high energy, positive behaviors. And that fear in its hundred different forms is always the origin of some negative, low energy, low vibration behavior. One key way to define love, because when we say love in our society, we think about, uh, relationships and romance and family. Um, but each of those forms of love is one facet of the greater concept of unconditional love. And to be honest, most of what we call love, especially when it comes to friendships and romantic relationships is a, uh, I’ll say it is a very complicated form of love.
Speaker 1 00:05:22 Now, love in its most basic form is full acceptance of the now full acceptance of what is, okay. Let me give you a second because I know that this is probably not a definition of love that you’ve heard before, but love is full acceptance, and I’m talking about the most purest, the most pure form of love, unconditional love. So when I say love, the definition of love is full acceptance. It means that what is happening right now, what is before me, whether it is a person, whether it is a situation I do not desire it to change. I am in perfect harmony with what is right now, and I have no urge to make it different. It is perfect. I am perfect. And we harmonize perfectly.
Speaker 1 00:06:29 That is, it’s a very interesting, uh, and some might say revolutionary definition of love. And although it is a, it’s certainly not mainstream, it resonates with me. I really feel that as I’ve become more mindful, and as I’ve learned to sink more into the present moment and stop fighting and start looking for acceptance, um, this really makes a lot of sense to me. Now, if we go to the other end of the continuum and we talk about fear, fear is the full rejection of what is now. This is not quite as complicated to understand as love equals acceptance. Obviously, if we have a fear about something, we need it to be different. We want it to be different. I’m scared of poverty. That means I want my situation to be different, or I, I don’t want to walk down towards this path. I’m scared of the death of someone I’m scared of losing someone.
Speaker 1 00:07:40 I’m scared for my safety. It means what’s happening right now is not in harmony with me. I am not comfortable with the way things are. And so the same way that this love slash acceptance can be very subtle and minor. It could be walking down a path and simply accepting what the path looks like. Or this love could be more intense seeing a garden that really makes my spirits soar, and I feel completely energized by it, right? So the same way that there’s this range of love from almost neutral to intense, the same thing happens with fear, right? So if fear, the lack of acceptance, the full rejection of what is it could start with. Um, I don’t like what someone is wearing. Where’s the fear in that this person’s views, don’t jive with me. Is there some sort of way that we are separate?
Speaker 1 00:08:48 Is there some sort of way that, uh, my opinions and my taste is not, what does it say if I wouldn’t dress that way, but he’s dressed that way. These may not be conscious thoughts, but when we don’t like something, it is rooted in some sort of fear. And so it can be very subtle, close to neutral, and it can go all the way to the most dramatic, like I have to kill this person because I’m in danger, right? So, uh, an extremely dramatic example like that, or I need help in this moment because I can’t handle what’s happening to me, right? So there is a range of love and a range of fear. And the reason that I’ve gone through all of these details is that before we talk about our darkness, it’s important that we, uh, well, me, I’m talking about me. It’s important. It was important that I redefined the concepts of good and bad because good and bad are relative.
Speaker 1 00:10:04 If you remember Les Miserables, John Bell, John was arrested for stealing bread to feed his starving family. And so the whole conflict of that story is that, was he a criminal? Did he deserve to be punished? And the fact is, according to the law, he was a criminal. That is true. Does he deserve to be locked away? Would you see that’s different? It depends. And so with any type of behavior that we would look at as negative, whether you’d call it a sin, a crime, something that offends you, anything that you have a negative reaction to it’s relative that same behavior that makes you feel one way can make another person feel completely different. And who has the authority to be, right?
Speaker 1 00:11:12 No one has the authority to be right. Each person gets to be right. No one can tell a person that they’re wrong about their moral judgment of a behavior because it’s it’s individual. And this is why we have juries, right? Because two different people may see the same act in two very different ways. So the whole, uh, again, I know this has been a lot of setup for this topic, but how can I deal with darkness? If I think I’m bad? How can I grow in light? If I believe I’m dark, I need to come to a way, a new paradigm of dealing with light and darkness. And so this is the concept of, of all of that. So when I say positive or negative, good or bad, what I’m really talking about in this philosophy is love or fear. So now that I’ve set that up, we’re all speaking the same language. So what does this have to do with dealing with our dark side? After a quick break, we’re going to go into some steps of how to work with and come to peace with the darkness inside. We’ll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 2 00:14:13 Welcome
Speaker 1 00:14:13 Back to refractive podcast. We are talking today about how to deal with our darkness. And so I mentioned before the break that there are a couple of steps to follow, uh, at least what I found through my spiritual path in order to come to peace with my darkness and to no longer see it as an obstacle for my own spiritual growth.
Speaker 2 00:14:37 Step one. Well, points
Speaker 1 00:14:40 One, let me say not step one. The first point is that it is impossible to remove your dark side.
Speaker 2 00:14:51 I
Speaker 1 00:14:52 Like to think of it as a sheet of paper. Can you remove one side of a piece of paper? I mean, I could, I’m, I’m holding for those of you just listening to audio, I’m holding a piece of paper. So, um, I can maybe shave down one side of the piece of paper, but all it does is create a new version of that side. And if I continue to shave down, I have nothing. So, um, my point is that this paper either has two sides, or it has zero sides. There is no one side. And so this is the concept of polarity. You see this in religions and spiritual concepts, all through history, the idea of the yin and yang, the idea of birth from destruction and death, that there are always these two sides that are equal and opposite, and neither is really good and neither is really bad.
Speaker 1 00:16:00 It’s all. It all depends. So before we say, I really want to, uh, eliminate my, um, my tendency to, to, to, to be what I’d call a bad person. Um, it’s important to realize that you could never, you could never, you can’t just like I can’t take away aside of that paper. I can not take away my darkness because every dark trait is equal opposite part inseparable of a light trait. I’ll go into more about this in, uh, in, in, in a future step. I’ll talk about how to take this idea of polarity and apply it to particular situation. So hold onto that, tuck it in, right? Because we’re going to need to return to this, to this concept. And just a moment, the second point is to look for balance. So if we’re, we’re looking to deal with our darkness and, um, to come into some sort of peace in this situation of growing spiritually, growing personally, becoming a better person yet also having a natural tendency to, uh, towards self-centeredness and other things we look for balance instead of trying to eliminate something that can’t be eliminated.
Speaker 1 00:17:30 We look to reduce, reduce the swing of the pendulum. We know that a pendulum, uh, tends to, uh, in control in a controlled environment, tends to swing equally from left to right, right from one direction to the other. And so we look to do is to lessen the swinging of the pendulum so that as we get good, we stay within a reasonable environment. We don’t become extremist in our search to be good. We don’t need to, uh, you know, we don’t all need to, uh, become mother Theresa and everything, right? Our life is balanced and we also don’t swing too far to the, to the bad side, to the fear side. So by maintaining balance, life feels more calm. So when a situation triggers me, it’s okay to get upset, but maybe I don’t yell and scream and maybe I don’t resort to violence. Right.
Speaker 1 00:18:36 When I feel, when I start to fall in love with someone, I tell them, I show them, uh, but maybe I don’t, uh, maybe I don’t buy them a house today. You know, I keep everything in a reasonable range because balance is key. So becoming aware, and this is a central point today for this podcast. So listen up becoming aware of an area that is out of balance is 100% required to change it. You cannot change a situation that you do not have awareness around. So I, I wrote this in a simple formula awareness plus desire to change equals change awareness, plus desire to change equals change if I have awareness, but no desire. There is no change if I have a desire to change, but no awareness of what’s happening. I can’t change.
Speaker 1 00:19:55 It’s important to have some compassion around this because while sometimes once we become aware of a negative characteristic, we can just simply stop doing it. That’s not in my experience, the most frequent occurrence, what is more likely that once I become aware of a situation that causes me pain, my behavior, my reactions, my, my, um, reflexes toward the situation creates disharmony. Once I become aware over time, the situation changes. It can take quite a long time. There is a poem called autobiography in five short chapters. And I learned about it from a mentor of mine. And since then, once again, it’s popped up over the months as I’ve kind of done some spiritual work. And, um, so I want to share it with you. I’m going to read it. Uh, so again, it’s called autobiography in five short chapters by Portia Nelson, and I’ll link to it in the show notes.
Speaker 1 00:21:15 One, I walked down the street, there’s a deep hole in the sidewalk. I fall in. I am lost. I am helpless. It isn’t my fault. It takes forever to find a way out to, I walked down the same street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I still don’t see it. I fall in again. I can’t believe I’m in the same place. It isn’t my fault. It still takes a long time to get out three. I walked down the same street. There’s a deep hole in the sidewalk. I see it there. I still fall in it’s habit. It’s my fault. I know where I am. I get out immediately for, I walked down the same street. There’s a deep hole in the sidewalk. I walk around it. Five. I walked down a different street.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 I have goosebumps. It’s so powerful because that really is how it is. We know something’s wrong. We continue to do it because it takes time and not giving us the time we need to make these changes. That’s a lack of compassion and we all deserve compassion. We deserve self-compassion all right. So continuing, the third point to make is that when we find ourself behaving in a way that we would call bad negative, fear-based however you want to call it. This signal that triggered our darkness is neutral. The situation that was the origin point of our reaction, that was negative is neutral.
Speaker 1 00:23:29 So let me, uh, let me explain what happened to me is neutral. I have the power to choose to respond in a love-based way, or I can respond in a fear-based way. Every single situation that could ever possibly happen has a response to it. That would be love-based or fear-based the most loving thing that could ever happen to you. You could still respond from a place of fear, the most terrifying thing that could ever happen to you. You could still respond in a, from a place of love. So again, the signal that triggered our darkness is neutral. Let me give you an example for my own life. I am so sensitive to the perception that I’ve been disrespected. This can take place. If someone cuts in front of me in line, this often happens when I’m driving. If someone has their high beams on and they’re blinding me, or if someone doesn’t yield or cuts me off or, uh, jumps in front of me in a way that makes me have to, uh, apply the brakes. Um, there’s this part of me that interprets it as disrespect. So this situation in effect, in effect is neutral. Did the person disrespect me that assumes intention, maybe the person had a wife in labor in the backseat of the car. How do I know maybe the person is going to be fired if they’re late to work one more time. And there was an emergency this morning, you know, um, it is not accurate for me to see the situation as disrespectful towards me.
Speaker 1 00:25:54 It could be inconsiderate, but that’s not the same thing I’m not considered, but that doesn’t mean that I was proactively disrespected. So what happened is neutral. I get to decide whether I respond in love. So in this car situation, what does a response that’s love-based look like. I love myself and I care for my safety. I love others around me and I care for their safety. And therefore I maintain full control and calm of my car. Obviously, there is a person who is not in a state of peace right now.
Speaker 2 00:26:39 Um, and so, because I
Speaker 1 00:26:44 Am in a state of peace, I will allow that person to live his or her life without interference with me. Lord knows that person must be going through something. And I do not need to add to that. Person’s stress. If I am reacting from a place of love, I can simply go on with my day. The fear-based reaction is I will not be stepped on like that. How dare this person, I’m going to turn on my high beams. I will not be cut off like that. I’m going to speed up. I’m going to pass this person because I am not somebody who’s chump.
Speaker 1 00:27:36 That’s it? Right? These are the two reactions. So the person’s behavior towards me is in effect neutral. It’s my decision that can be either love-based or fear-based. This can apply to any situation. And so let’s combine this with the awareness that we talked about in the previous point. If I am aware that I have a tendency to react negatively, when I perceive disrespect from others, then when someone does something that I would have called disrespect before I can be aware of the flood of energy, you’ve all felt it, right? This rush of, of, of, of hot lava that fills your torso, this anger that fills your torso. I can see it. And maybe just like with the autobiography in five short chapters, maybe for the first couple of times, I still get upset. I press on the gas. I’m going to take my revenge on this person, but eventually the awareness plus the desire to change equals change. So, Oh my God, I feel the heat rising up in my torso. Okay. I’m just not going to give into it. I’m going to take a breath and go on with my day because I love myself. So I’m not going to jeopardize my safety. I love other people, so I don’t need to contribute to someone’s already bad day and I don’t need to scare the other drivers around me. That’s selfish. So I’m just going to go on with my day and I’m going to wish the best for that person awareness plus desire to change eventually equals change.
Speaker 1 00:29:44 The fourth step that Earth’s not a step. I keep saying that the fourth point to talk about it is, uh, it’s another nugget of wisdom that I’ve heard from several different spiritual sources. And there is nothing that, that, that touches my heart more than when I find the same wisdom from several sources. It’s like, I just feel that my angels and the spiritual guides and my, my, my definition of God source higher power is communicating with me in that moment. And so, um, the concept is that when we react to a situation in a way that is fear based, our energy becomes contaminated. Now you don’t need to believe me, just remember what it feels like to do something out of fear or anger. You feel like this residue of gross newness inside your body, right? Your blood pressure goes up, your, your, maybe your throat feels tight.
Speaker 1 00:31:01 You have a knot in your stomach. You’re short tempered with people for the next hour or two. You don’t want to be like that, but you can’t help it because there’s this residue of what happened. The point is that whenever we behave in a fear-based way, we put our energy out of balance, our life energy, and it is important at some point. And most of these, uh, most of these spiritual teachings and practices say do it at the end of the day, dedicate just a few minutes at the end of the day, to, um, go in through a mental list of the times today, when we have reacted in a fear-based way,
Speaker 1 00:31:49 Where we angry, dishonest, resentful, um, do we do something in a fear-based way? So the, uh, the way to clear your energy and release this residue, that’s in you from this, from this gross miss is to remember what happened. So I’m going back to my car. I’m driving down the highway. This person cut me off. And I remember I had this rush of hot, of just heat, fill my torso. And like, I felt this like burning desire to, to show this person that I will not be disrespected. I will not be someone else’s doormat. And, uh, and so I feel this heat and I go, and I put my foot on the accelerator and I, I display my dominance. And I remember what it feels like, right? Cause you have to remember what happened. I can feel the steering wheel. I can feel the tenseness in my neck and my shoulders.
Speaker 1 00:33:04 I feel the hot energy inside of me. And you live that experience again just for a few seconds, but be thorough. Then you reimagine you re-imagined because again, everything is a continuum. Everything is polarity. Everything has its equal opposite. So in order to put my energy back in balance, I go back to my mind and I say, what would the love-based reaction have been? I would understand that this person is not in a position of peace right now. I would want to take care of myself and take care of my fellow drivers. So I imagine it I’m sitting in the car, I feel the steering wheel. I feel the seat against my back and my legs. The person cuts me off.
Speaker 1 00:34:03 And my reaction is, Oh, that poor person, it must be having a rough day. Go ahead, buddy. It’s as simple as that, it’s as simple as that to release the film of negativity and balance your energy. And you would go incident by incident, by incident throughout your day. And you do this at the close of every day. And this is how you keep your positive energy glowing and flowing. And, uh, and you keep your capacity to be of service to others at a higher level. So that is something that I do every single night. I actually have a phone partner. Uh, Hey, how are you doing? And uh, if she’s listening, I have a phone partner in every night at eight 30, we have a call and we go through together. Um, where did we miss the Mark today? And, uh, you know, over time, the list gets shorter day by day. It really does. All right, the next point in this list of, of how to come to terms with the darkness and instead of seeking to, uh, exile it and, uh, tear it out of our bodies, um, to learn to work with it. The next point is compassion and love, compassion, and love. It takes time to change. It takes time to build the slivers of faith that allow you to no longer need to scramble to protect your ego.
Speaker 1 00:35:56 I’m going to say this again. It takes time to build the slivers of faith that released the need for us to scramble, to protect our ego fear is the absence of faith, right? If I believed all was well, if I believe this moment was exactly as it should be. If I accept this moment, that it is exactly as it should be, that all is well, then I have no need to wish for this situation to be different. I have no need to resort to fear. So it takes time to build faith that allows you to let go of a fear based reaction.
Speaker 0 00:36:45 Okay?
Speaker 1 00:36:48 So the last point that I wanted to bring up in this situation, in this topic today, it’s I just, I want to ask you when you get angry, when you tell a white lie, when you overindulge in some sort of compulsion, do you think that you displease God, whatever you call it, source the universe, God, higher, power, whatever. Do you think that you displease God when you make a mistake? Do you think that the hand of the creator was absent from your behavior? Do you think that you do anything outside of the will and permission of God? Do you take one breath that is not within the will of the higher power? Does one thought ever arise in your mind that wasn’t passed through the filter of God first?
Speaker 1 00:38:20 Do you think you’re controlling your thoughts? Do you think you’re responsible for what is happening? Do you think you’re responsible for the type of anger that’s inside of you? Do you think you’re responsible for the darkness that’s inside of you? I would have said yes to every single one of those questions. Every single one is God managing my breath. No, no. That’s I would have said no. God started the engine and let me go. It’s up to me to take care of myself. It’s up to me to go to the doctor. It’s up to me to, uh, to do this. It’s up to me to control my thoughts. It’s up to me to not be in traffic. If I worked harder, I wouldn’t be in traffic. If I got up earlier, I wouldn’t be in traffic. If I do more, my family will have more. So I believed that I was the one pulling the strings and that when things didn’t work the way I had idealized them, that it was my fault.
Speaker 1 00:39:44 And through this journey of awakening that has exploded me from the inside over the past three years, I’ve come to realize that my definition of God is limitless. God is everything everywhere. There is nothing that is not God. Even what we think of as nothing. The space between subatomic particles. That’s still God. So do I displease God when I get angry? I don’t believe that anymore. I don’t believe that anymore. That’s where I am today. So I want to share an excerpt with you from a book that has been possibly, well, I don’t know, maybe the most influential book of my entire spiritual journey. I mean, possibly the number one it’s called the impersonal life by Joseph Benner, the impersonal life by Joseph Benner. So I’m going to read this for you. And, uh, I know that by the time I finished reading this, I’m going to be vibrating inside with energy because it just, it causes my spirit to rise.
Speaker 1 00:41:26 Here we go to test your strength and more often to show you what the misuse of my power does to you. I, at times allow you to commit a sin in so-called or to make a mistake. I even permit you to become inflated with the sense of my presence within you. When it manifests as a consciousness, my power, my intelligence, my love let you take these and use them for your own personal purpose, but not for long for not being in strong enough to control them. They soon take the bit in their teeth. Runaway with you, throw you down in the mire and disappear from your consciousness. From the time being always. I am there to pick you up after the fall. Although you do not know it at the time, first straightening you out, then starting you onward again by pointing out the reason for your fall.
Speaker 1 00:42:29 And finally, when you are sufficiently humbled causing you to see that these powers accruing to you by the conscious use of my will, my intelligence and my love are allowed. You only for use in my service and not at all for your own personal ends to the cells of your body, the muscles of your arm, think to set themselves up as having a separate will from your will or a separate intelligence from your intelligence. No, they no, no intelligence, but yours no will from yours. After a while, it will be that you will realize you were only one of the cells of my body and that your will is now not your will, but mine, that what consciousness and what intelligence you have are mine wholly and that there is no such person as you, you personally, being only a physical form containing a human brain, which I created for the purpose of expressing in matter an idea, a certain phase of which I could express best only in that particular form.
Speaker 1 00:43:50 Yes, all ideas and all desires come thus for me, they are my ideas and my desires, which I inspire in your mind and heart in order to bring them through you into outer manifestation, you have no ideas of your own and could not possibly have a desire that came from other than me for I am all that is therefore all desires are good. And when thus understood unfailingly, come in to speak and complete fulfillment, you may wrongly my desires. My urge is from within and seek to use them for your own selfish purpose. But even while permitting this, they still fulfill my purpose for it is only by letting you misuse my gifts and by the suffering such misuse brings that I can make you into the clean and selfless channel I require for the perfect expression of my ideas.
Speaker 1 00:45:05 Thank you so much for tuning in today and, uh, as always be good to each other and aim your light. This is Johnny G and you have been listening to refractive podcast. If you enjoyed today’s content, please subscribe. And either like the episode or give it a rating, it helps to prioritize this content in search engine results. I’m a coach speaker and facilitator based in Washington, DC. I work in person and remotely with those who are ready to step into an authentic life and a fulfilling career. If I can be of service, visit refractive coaching.com or email me at jo****@****************ng.com. I’d love to hear your comments and feedback on the podcast, or maybe you have a topic you’d like to hear. You can find me on social media, on Facebook and YouTube at refractive coaching and on Twitter and Instagram. I’m at refractive life. As you go through your day, I hope you remember the magnificence that is your birthright. Be good to each other. And don’t forget to aim your light.

Why does it seem so hard to live a happy life? Join Johnny G and guest Jamir Smith as they take a deep dive into the buidling blocks for happiness and examine how we wall ourselves off from joyful living. This episode is full of laughter, tips, and solid advice for stepping happily into the future we deserve.

Find the YouTube video version of this episode here.

Jamir references two books, find links here. We are not compensated for any sales via this link:

All Boys Aren’t Blue by George Johnson

A Promised Land by Barack Obama

You can find Jamir’s podcast, The Jamir Smith Show on Apple Podcasts here, or you can search by name on other platforms like Google Podcasts and Soundcloud. Find him on Instagram @Jamir_Smith

For other episodes focused on living an invigorating life, try these: The Courage to Change Careers and Surrender to Greatness.

For more information on Refractive, visit RefractiveCoaching.com or RefractivePodcast.com.

Find the transcript below performed by automated software; please forgive any errors or misunderstandings by the software.

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you. And as long as you, my name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of refractive podcast today. I am so happy to introduce you to a dear friend of mine named Jamir Smith. And just a bit of his background. Jamir was born and raised in Durham, North Carolina, and as an only child, he learned the value of stepping into creativity at an early age. He worked in the luxury fashion and design industry for over 15 years and built some pretty strong relationships along the way. He’s currently a podcast host. You can find the Jamir Smith show podcast on your favorite platform. And it provides an outlook on lifestyle, fashion interviews with entrepreneurs and tastemakers and other people who are leaving their footprints on this world. He has had some really great interviews on his podcast. I highly recommend it to you. It’s positive, uplifting, easy to absorb material. Um, one of his most memorable interviews was with a relative of James Baldwin and digging deep into the experience of knowing such an important playwright, uh, on a deeper level. So Jamir, welcome to refractive. I’m so happy that you’re with us today,
Speaker 2 00:02:00 Johnny, I am so excited to be a part of your platform. One, because you know, you touched on a couple of things earlier about having a show that is a lifestyle brand, and that’s how I look at you and you are, and you can encompass what lifestyle brands mean. And I think, you know, when I interviewed you last week or the week before a lot of listeners, and I didn’t want to tell you until we started recording said they enjoyed you so much because you provided an honest and real conversation. And so thank you for allowing me to be a part of your, your attire, beautiful platform.
Speaker 1 00:02:38 Oh, absolutely. Listen. I, I, you know, I may not have the, uh, the most famous contacts in my address book. Um, but I’m very picky on who comes on my podcast and I protect what I see as the integrity of our mission here on refractive. And that’s to help people step into their own authentic power and live their best lives. Um, so many of us and I include myself in that have been held back by our own illusions of, um, of should, you know, and I just don’t subscribe to that anymore. And I believe that my mission is to shine as best I can so that other people can also want to shine. And that’s why I bring people like you on my podcast. I’m glad that you’re here and our topic today. Um, it felt like a really natural fit immediately when you and I agreed to, uh, partner on podcasts. I knew that I wanted to focus on joy and that’s because at the root of our relationship back a million years ago, when we first got into the, to each other’s orbits, there was so much laughter around the moments we spent together. And it just, I just felt that connection of lightheartedness with you. And, uh, I don’t know. I think that we live in a world that a lot of people see is very heavy today and it’s time to bring some lightheartedness in there.
Speaker 2 00:04:12 You know, when I think about our relationship and really the bond that we have really built, I think that, you know, I would retreat sometimes to see your office just because I needed to get away and to just talk and to just laugh and talk about the craziness of the world. But I think what our relationship was built on is laughter enjoy, but also really looking through anything that was going on and trying to find the positivity of it. And that’s exactly what you have always been. And it’s such a beautiful light to see this is who you are continuously becoming. So absolutely
Speaker 1 00:04:50 Thank you, Jamir. So we’re going to focus today on unlocking joy. And I was really specific in picking the wording for this, um, unlocking because my, my personal belief system says that joy and happiness, and even though there are subtle differences between the definitions of those two words, I’m going to use them interchangeably today for simplicity. But, um, you know, my philosophy says that there is an unlimited storehouse of joy and happiness available to all of us and it lives in the present moment. It lives in finding acceptance of the present moment and letting go of the need for the future to be one way and the past to be another way. And so the way to, uh, and this is the focus of the word unlocking joy, because I believe we all have access to it, but we closed the door ourselves. We keep ourselves out of a state of joy and happiness through various things. And I think it’s not that complicated to step back through. And that’s what I wanted the focus of today’s episode to be. I am excited.
Speaker 2 00:05:58 I’m excited. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:06:01 Let’s, let’s get honest for a few minutes. And, uh, how happy would you say you are today?
Speaker 2 00:06:12 You know, when you discuss this question with me and some of the other few questions I thought about, let’s just say present day and I’ll talk about just me specifically, you know, I was affected by this entire pandemic and I believe I had to start removing myself from the idea of selfishness and saying, Oh my gosh, why me? It was one of those things that I had to look at. It is everyone and everyone is being affected by this entire pandemic that we’re living through right now. But throughout the entire interim, I had to find what is my happiness, what is my passion? And I never think that anyone will ever be a hundred percent happy. But what I do believe is that when I look at myself and I look at the platform that I’ve been able to build in the conundrum that we’re living in, I am about 65, 70% happy.
Speaker 2 00:07:08 And that’s big because that’s literally one over half, but then two, I think about all of the blessings that I’ve had. And when I say blessings, the contributions and support from my family throughout this entire pandemic, I could not have been able to move forward and, and understand what happiness looked and felt like without my family supporting me, looking at the financials of things and also maturing me throughout the process, because this was the time that I needed to look at myself and say, I need to do something different, but also how do I stay focused in the process? So I’m, I’m extremely is not the word, but I’m buried.
Speaker 1 00:07:47 Yeah. Yeah. I had this really formative experience a few years back where in the course of about a week, four people asked me some variation of the question of how happy are you. And I believe that my higher power, my definition of God, talks to me in this way, that when I hear the same message coming at me over and over again, I need to perk up and listen to what’s happening. The fact of the matter is that as each of these people asked me how happy I was in life. You know, my answers were pretty low and people were surprised when I gave those answers. Um, one person even said, Oh my gosh, that’s so sad. It’s like, you’re
Speaker 2 00:08:45 Human.
Speaker 1 00:08:48 It’s like, okay. All right, sir, judge a lot. But it was, uh, it was a wake-up call to me because I had not realized that there was room for more happiness. It’s kind of like when, uh, you stop smelling the fact that you need a bath, you know what I mean? It’s like I was in the muck for so long that I didn’t even know I needed a bath. That’s how it was. And when these four people in a row, um, brought to my attention that I wasn’t meeting my expectations for happiness, it wasn’t about the world. It’s like they, they helped me to remove the blinders to see that I wasn’t okay with my level of happiness. And it created this path of searching for me. How do I live a life that feels good and feels right. And lighthearted and joyful. And this was a big part of my decision to leave human resources. It was, I, when I sat down and realized, I knew that I was working 10 or 11 hours a day doing something that was fine. Yeah. But it didn’t make me feel light an area. And so today, now that I’ve redesigned my life, um, over the past several years, this is not an overnight thing, but as I’ve redesigned my life, my happiness flows up and down a scale.
Speaker 2 00:10:21 I’m sorry, I have to write this down because you just hit something that was beautiful. Redesigned your last that’s right. Big Johnny, right?
Speaker 1 00:10:31 You are the architect, you know, we saw the matrix, you know, so with this, uh, like you said, I’m not a hundred percent happy all the time. I don’t walk around in a state of perpetual bliss, but what is true is that there is a door that I have the capacity to walk through to joy whenever I feel like it. And I count on these life experiences that I enjoy, like walking through the woods, or like watching a favorite show or like doing something creative. I took up sewing as a creative, fun hobby recently just to see what it would be like. Um, I enjoy writing and doing this stuff, editing podcasts and all of that. So by stepping through the door, into these various avenues, I raise my vibration to a state of happiness. And when eventually I stepped back, um, it settled down a little bit, but that’s the flow of my life now.
Speaker 2 00:11:38 I think that’s amazing. Cause you know, I thought about, you know, as we were discussing the questions I knew and believed that happiness really begins with gratitude and understanding and looking for things that were just for me, extremely specific. And so I, that I wanted to, as you said earlier, go to the museums and enjoy a beautiful exhibit or plan a trip. You know, even if I knew that I wasn’t going on a trip for me, those are self-fulfilling things that make me happy, you know, reorganizing my closet and updating, you know, furniture in my home. Like those are the things that I find happy, even though a few of those, those things are material. Those are some things that actually still make you happy. So
Speaker 1 00:12:23 Yeah, for sure. So one of the things that I was thinking about is how kids seem to have this ability to step into happiness very easily. And it seems like many adults face more obstacles to stepping through that door of happiness. So I’d love to hear your perspective on this. Why do you think kids find joy so quickly and why do you think adults struggle?
Speaker 2 00:12:53 You know, I thought about this question and I actually took some notes on this one because I thought this is a really amazing topic to talk about because I don’t think sometimes we look at our inner self and say, what, what in, how would I have felt as a child? And a couple of the things were one children don’t care, what other people think of them. So children are just free and they can sing in public and dance and act as crazy as they want and not care who or what is looking at them. But also I think about again, I’m a Pisces, so I’m a dreamer and all of these things. But I think about it as a child, children get to let their mind wonder, you know, they get to get in, put themselves and present themselves in a place where they could just have fun and just letting their imaginations just run wild.
Speaker 2 00:13:47 And in addition to that, it’s like adults can do the same, but it’s like, I feel like we have to be so particular with certain things. And I also remember it, I was around a coworker of mine. Mine’s daughter, children can say whatever they mean and it’s okay. And for, for, for adults, we have to somewhat tailor. Besides some people have to tailor what we say to certain people because we don’t want to hurt others feelings. But I feel like it’s sometimes children, you know, you can tell if, if children are being very honest with you because they just kind of open up and say whatever they want. But I think also, you know, I thought about relationships, kids don’t hold grudges at all. You know, when you think about adults, we have chips on our shoulders. And we think about, you know, I can’t believe that this person did this to me. And how do I get over that kids? You give them a piece of candy or some cake and I promise you they’ve moved on. You know? So I think in that moment we hope that children just don’t hold those grudges. But yeah, that’s what I really thought about. You know, kids are just in a different way or way and where of life that they could just be.
Speaker 1 00:14:57 Yes. Yes. I really appreciate, uh, a lot of what you just said regarding the kids. And, you know, I see all of those factors as being a part of the lash of society because as we grow up the older, we get, the more we get whipped by society to walk down a certain path that is seen as appropriate, correct. And the more we have to navigate a path that is not native to us, the less connection we have to our authentic reaction to the moment. Very true, very true, absolutely lives in our authentic reaction to the moment. And when we are tempering that, to make sure that we react in a way that is seen as appropriate, we take away that spontaneous falling into joy. That’s that’s my perspective on that.
Speaker 2 00:16:09 No, absolutely. Because I think, you know, with, with us as adults, I think sometimes people are, are scared of, you know, seeking out new experiences. And I think when you think about a child, you know, they’re often just eager to try new things, to play new games teams. And when you think about adults, you know, were sometimes stuck in this box of security. And I think being able, just to be live and just develop, you know, the idea of spontaneity is something that we just have to acquire as adults the same way we did it.
Speaker 1 00:16:46 Yes. You know, um, let’s say you go to a wedding where there’s a lot of families and kids and whatnot, and a really fun song comes on. All the kids run to the dance floor, act a fool, they look ridiculous and they are living their best life,
Speaker 2 00:17:07 Their entire business lives. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:17:10 And how many adults are sitting at those round tables, watching the kids, wishing that they could go out on the floor and dance too, but they don’t want to look stupid. Right? So there’s the discard, there’s the disconnect, you know, are you willing to jump into the arms of the moment and enjoy it for what it is or do you need to recalculate and negotiate what’s happening, uh, to give yourself more perceived safety? You know,
Speaker 2 00:17:42 I think people just have to get to a point in life. You just have to live, you have to enjoy your spaces. You have to live in your spaces, but enjoy those moments that you are living. Because if last year in the years that are to come, have not taught us anything is that life is short. So you have got to continue to enjoy these moments to the best of your capability and just do what you can do to make yourself happy. Not anyone else yourself. So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 00:18:13 What brings you joy? Jamir? My family. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:18:24 I’ve always said my family because they are the backbone, the footprint, the, you know, I talk about how my parents showed me what love looks like in adversity, in, in would being married forever. What that sounds like, because the reality is sometimes people don’t understand the forever. So I saw what hard work looks like with that feels like, you know, um, what you touched on earlier, I’m a creative. So I love reading. Reading allows me to remove myself to a place that I can then encompass my, my eyes, my spirit, my soul, into the words of the book. Um, my relationships with my friends, they’ve always made me happy because we’ve been able to curse and argue and love on each other. But the biggest part is support each other.
Speaker 3 00:19:37 And
Speaker 2 00:19:38 As you know, fashion fashion, it makes me happy. You know, currently in Paris, everyone knows that the men’s fashion week is going on through the 24th,
Speaker 3 00:19:51 Be specific,
Speaker 2 00:19:52 But you know, I have set my, my alarm clocks and all of my, you know, uh, alerts to each and every show that I know that I’m able to tune into on social media. Cause now everything is completely digital. And again, shout out to Louis Vuitton and Dior this morning, phenomenal show. So those are the things that definitely make me happy.
Speaker 3 00:20:16 Why do you connect so deeply with fashion? Why does it make you feel the way it does?
Speaker 2 00:20:22 I’m looking at the creativity of the designers. You know, I have, um, like a lot of people, a passion to watching documentaries and understanding where designers come from and learning their story with them, understanding what their collections consist of and why I love fashion so much is that it’s in it’s alarming. How many designers have now tapped into the African-American and Asian communities to see their collections really blow up, but I feel that’s what they’ve done in the past. They just have never acknowledged it. So it’s a beautiful thing to see people like Virgil Abloh or, you know, Olivier Rosting with Baumol, um, you know, and other designers be a part of these creative visions. And I look at them as creative pieces. And what I love is designer in high, low is exactly what I believe in. So yeah, that’s why I love fashion and will continue to love fashion. It’s always at the tip of my tongue.
Speaker 1 00:21:32 One of my favorite things is to look at a piece of created material and it could be a beautiful dress. It could be the facade of a lovely home that I walked past down the street, a garden. Um, and I have found it so satisfying to tap into what I believe the person was experiencing, came up with the concepts. So as I look at houses, you know, if you walk through some of these lovely old neighborhoods of Washington, D C beautiful stately gorgeous. And I look at the, the ornate, uh, you know, details in the corners and the overhangs and the subtle colors and, um, how the bricks are positioned next to each other in surprising ways. And I can feel the excitement of the person designing that say, Oh my God, this is going to look so amazing. Oh, I can’t wait. And when I am in a department store, even though I have never been a fashionista, right. I wear simple, basic, comfortable clothes. Okay. That is what I’ve always worn. Well, there was like a period, but, uh,
Speaker 2 00:22:58 I was going to say there were definitely very, very fashion forward, sir.
Speaker 1 00:23:03 But, you know, I mean, look at me, look what I’m wearing today. I’m wearing an under armor, you know,
Speaker 2 00:23:07 Listen, it’s still, we’re still in a pandemic right now.
Speaker 1 00:23:13 I mean, you have one Dior’s so yeah, so, you know, but I would walk through the store and I would just pick up a beautiful garment that I would never even wear or buy or anything, but I could see the love and the energy poured into, you know, making the hem look this way, putting a pleat right here, picking this shade of fabric to go, uh, to make the form and the flow just feel right. And I was able to like hijack the joy of the designer and step into it myself. It’s like almost like, like putting on the experience that this person had and seeing the love energy that was poured into the creative process. And I really, it just, you know, we talked in an earlier podcast that you and I did. Um, but it’s, it’s in those moments that I fall in and surrender to the moment. There is nothing else that is happening, but myself falling into the details of this facade or this garment or this garden or whatever it is in the moment. And when I am able to step fully and lose myself in the beauty of a moment, there is no room for anything but joy.
Speaker 2 00:24:44 You know, I wrote something down earlier that I wanted to read to you is that, you know, when it comes to fashion and mental health, for me, my wardrobe is a coping mechanism and it’s one that really helps, you know, and I dress myself in a way that I am extremely joyful and creative and I’m extremely cheerful, but also to really make myself feel the entire joy of like what I put on. And it’s because of me, it’s not to, you know, show the showy thing. That’s not what it’s about for me. It’s about how do I, my enjoy. Yes. But then also it just helps with getting over and stomaching the world that we’re living in. And so for me, that’s just a way that you can just say, you know what, I enjoy what I have on today and it’s making me happy. So why not? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:25:41 What has the ability to block joy for you?
Speaker 2 00:25:46 You know, I think about how negative people can be at times the world. Um, when you build relationships with people and you’re just not aligned, that’s what definitely breaks. Um, my happiness, my joy sometimes because I have, and always will be this very excited, charismatic man, but it’s interesting. I have to realize at times that everyone’s not going to be that way and that’s okay. But that is something that has always been a factor that sometimes determines my mood. You know, I’m like a lot of people you can wake up in the morning and I’m drinking my tea, but you can wake up and have your coffee and your tea and, you know, put on a nice outfit and you know that you got your hair cut and your hair done, and you’re looking good. You know, you hop in the car and get comes on and you’re just having a good old time. It’s a work. And then you see this person with the worst attitude, this client that comes in and they change the entire trajectory of the day. You’re like what happened here? And I had to remember and say to myself, no one should be able to alter your entire personality mood, how you feel, how you feel is how you feel because you control that. So yeah. What about you?
Speaker 1 00:27:14 Well, I believe that if something doesn’t feel good, I should turn away from it. And it doesn’t, I don’t, I don’t mean that, uh, you know, I shouldn’t go to the dentist. That’s not what I mean. Right. What I mean is, if something lowers my vibration, if something brings me down, I should turn away from it. This is how animals behave. When something makes an animal feel less comfortable than it was a second ago, it backs away, you know? And that’s, uh, that’s a way of living that I’ve never applied before now. And I used to believe that it was weak to back away from that didn’t feel good because there was opportunity for strength building in moving through it. And, and I’m not saying that that’s not true. What I am saying is that there is an equal and equally powerful benefit to bypassing things that my intuition tells me to bypass as there is suffering through it, for the sense of strength.
Speaker 2 00:28:35 Yeah, no, absolutely. My mom always said that. Interesting enough. I used to be that guy with a very quick attitude and always having to say something. And you know, if there was something that someone did or said, my reaction is always at a 10 and she said one, you have way too much to lose. So let’s start there to use that time to refocus and readjust your attitude. My dad says, you know, movement, silence, you know, don’t let everyone tell, know your moves and don’t tell everyone what you have going on. But in addition to walk away, yes. And I’ve realized that’s okay. It doesn’t make you look weak. It doesn’t make you feel any kind of way. If you know that this opportunity, this space, this environment, this energy is not what is aligned in your own visions. I’m gone. My friends in my entire circle knows if this an event that we want to go and I’m not feeling it. I’m not going. Or if it’s people around and we’re not aligned, I don’t want to be around you enjoy, please have fun. Let me remove myself. And I feel that’s what people have to do in life. Remove yourself. If you know that that’s just not the right opportunity for you.
Speaker 1 00:30:00 That’s right. Pilots don’t fly through a storm. If it makes sense to hop over it. Absolutely. There, there’s no pride to making it through a thunderstorm that have just flown over it.
Speaker 2 00:30:16 Yeah. As I said, they don’t give you an additional star for that. It’s okay.
Speaker 1 00:30:19 Oh no, no. Do you learn different skills maybe, but is it painful and stressful? Yes. And to weigh the pros and the cons, you know, that’s, that’s really what I believe there. And, um, you know, I look at people, especially, um, over the past few weeks, we’ve had a tumultuous election, had, uh, you know, violent protests in the Capitol and that that’s our home. Well, you don’t live there anymore, but you know, that’s where we met. And the thing is that as I look at my Facebook feed, I could feel the, um, calm, pounded anxiety building as everybody watched the news for 24 hours day after day and got whipped into a frenzy, they were not learning new, valuable information from the news. All they were doing is watching anger, absolute and absorbing it little by little. And you could just feel the tension of social media until people started posting nasty things.
Speaker 1 00:31:45 Absolutely. And for me, there is no value in watching the news when there’s a tragedy happening details. That’s what you needed to know. And if something major happens, somebody who’s going to tell you, you know, you don’t, you don’t need to be a Sentinel standing at the gate, watching every single thing that happens because it’s not good for you. And it ruins your ability to enjoy the present moment. It ruins serenity. And my first job in this life is to protect my serenity because I can do nothing good for other people and nothing good for myself if I don’t have serenity,
Speaker 2 00:32:29 No, you’re, you’re totally honest and true with how you feel. You know, I am, I think I was one of those people cause DC was very heavy. The energy in DC was at an all time highs because when we think of, Oh, I’m sorry, it was an extraordinary extort. And I don’t think people really understand that, but in DC throughout, let’s just say prior to what happened, what two and a half weeks ago at the Capitol, we have still lived in a space of seclusion because DC had still yet to open up. So today is the first day that DC has now opened its doors with restaurants and a cup of what is it, a capacity of what 250. So I think that adding on to the riot, it was just a bad moment. And I will say this, and I have come to this realization of, we needed Trump’s administration in office because it allowed everyone to understand the division in the world. But then also how much racism, not with just black and white, but the racism that is very prominent in the world today. And I think everyone needed to realize that. And it didn’t matter how rich you are, how prominent you are. Every single person was then lumped in the same way. And the riot happened. The energy in DC happened for a reason. And I am unfortunate that people lost their lives, but it needed to happen to really put in shine a light on everything that’s happening. It was for a reason,
Speaker 1 00:34:22 Yes. Nothing in this creation is a mistake. Absolutely. And you know, we look at how can it be the will of God when we suffer? And you know, I can’t look, I can’t sit there and answer age-old questions for you at a 10 minute, you know, but what I will tell you is that just like you, I’m so happy to hear you say that because you know, having such a polarizing figure, leaving the United States brought about opportunities for people to shine, absolutely shine, right. People who still needed more healing could get into the mud. That’s fine. You go ahead and you get into the mud baby, that’s your right. That’s your right. You want to go fight? You want to go argue, get into the mud it’s okay. Right. Because there’s opportunity for healing in the mud ready to be a part of the light and the calming and the lack of the attack mentality. There’s there’s need for that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:38 You know, I think, I think about just really just looking at president Biden and Madam vice president, Kamala Harris and their hands on these Bibles, you know, that have been in their families and the Thurgood Marshall Bible that had been there forever. And just looking at the energy of God and the universe and, you know, not to turn, you know, your, your podcast into a spiritual Christian, whatever podcasts, you know, it’s just, I just think about a higher being all the time. And I think about how we have to sometimes really surrender ourselves to a higher power and whoever the higher power is for people and just understanding that Everything that happens, it happens for a reason and making sure that you are ready and prepared for what’s next. I thought about something, um, that I wrote down is that, you know,
Speaker 2 00:36:45 God is always going to be concerned with our growth, but we just have to do the work. And, you know, he’s not concerned really with our happiness. And you know, when I wrote that down, I thought about how God will give you the tools necessary for success, but I don’t believe sometimes people really understand what is necessary to do the work. And that part is what I see that it’s time for us to now demand. I remember on the show, I had had a guy named Josh Swan and he talked about how Congress is now a democratic Congress. So now that we have a president, uh, Senate and, uh, the entire spectrum is now democratic, how do we now demand what we want? Because that’s where we are. We’re at a place that every single person should demand what it is they’re looking for. And we just now have to be strategic on the growth of America in rebuilding America, because we needed this time during the pandemic to rest the earth needed to rest. And we all needed this time to sit and just be,
Speaker 3 00:38:04 So, yeah. Let me ask you Jamir, how does happiness and joy relate to spirituality? Goodness.
Speaker 2 00:38:20 You know, I think having joy really includes just feeling good and,
Speaker 3 00:38:28 You know,
Speaker 2 00:38:30 I, I think about on Sundays when I listened to, um, FCBC in a Harlem New York city, um, and I listened to the pastor and how much, the two sometimes coincide, I love that. It gives me A clear mindset on what life needs to feel like. And for me, you know, having joy, it just includes good cheer and a happiness, but also just a spiritual meaning of,
Speaker 2 00:39:05 I don’t know, really expressing God’s goodness, man. And just for me, it’s always been deeply rooted because I think about my family and what my mom, my aunt, my dad has always taught me about understanding and being harmless in what’s happening in the world. And so I feel like there’s a lot of similarities in the two. Um, but I think sometimes it’s just as hard to really feel spiritual in, in just consistent with joy because of, you know, you, you questioned some of the things that happen in your life and you say, why did this happen to me? Well, why did I have to go through that to learn this and blah, blah, blah. You know? So what about yourself?
Speaker 1 00:39:53 Well, here’s what I’ll say. No, if I can say that happiness and joy are required for spiritual growth, but what I can say is that the opposite of happiness and joy are deadly to spiritual growth.
Speaker 3 00:40:15 When there
Speaker 1 00:40:16 Is bitterness, resentment and discord coming from your essence,
Speaker 3 00:40:26 There is
Speaker 1 00:40:27 No, there is no room for becoming one with love and oneness with love or God consciousness or whatever. However you want to identify oneness with God is the goal of spiritual growth. Anything that causes the illusion of separation between us and God is, uh, it it’s a cage that we’re holding shut for ourself. No one else is blocking us. You know, do you think that we have a right to be happy? Oh, absolutely. Tell me why, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 00:41:20 You know, I, I was reading something the other day and it was on, um, the healing power of joy. And I was thinking about, you know,
Speaker 3 00:41:32 I, at a time that
Speaker 2 00:41:35 When I remember when my uncle had passed away of cancer and how much of a staple figure he was as far as in my family’s life. And I always questioned, like, why did he have to pass away? Then I went back to say, why are you questioning God’s decision? Because this is something that is bigger than you. And I just believed at that moment that I had to be free. I had to find out what happened is to look like, and in the moment, you know, even in college, I lost my best friend and I was extremely not depressed, but I still have yet to acknowledge what that feels like. But I knew that I needed to find some type of happiness. And the thing is in life, we all deserve happiness, whether that’s in the form of a relationship, if that’s in the form of materialism, if that’s in the form of a strong family structure, because I feel like there’s still so much divide and so much darkness in the world that we’re still gonna be able to meet something that will fill us. Now, I don’t know if it’ll ever fill us our entire cup, but we all need to be fed. And I do believe that. Yeah. Yeah. What about you?
Speaker 1 00:42:57 Well, when I think about the question of whether I believe we have a right to happiness, um, I come down on a yes for logical reasons. And what I mean by that is that there is no one who controls your happiness, but you, and if you look around the world at the studies that have gauged the happiness of citizens of various countries, and you look at the, the level of daily joy that is found in some of the most harsh living conditions in the world with countries that have been in poverty for centuries we’ve countries, where people aren’t sure where the next meal comes from. And yet there is joy and lightness of being.
Speaker 1 00:43:57 So my position on this is that, of course you have a right to happiness because no one can make you unhappy, but you, nothing can cut a diamond, but a diamond baby are powerful beyond measure. And there’s not a single force in the world that could dare oppose you if you stand in your power. And that power includes gratitude, joy, love, serenity. These are all facets of your power. And, uh, only you can give it away. So yes, you have an inalienable right to happiness. It’s whether or not you allow yourself to sink into the illusion of separation from God. And if you will allow yourself to be pulled out of the glory of this present moment and live in the fear of the future and the pain of the past, those are enemies of happiness and they only win if you open the door, you know,
Speaker 2 00:44:59 And you, you also have to just really pay attention to the small things that you typically take for granted, you know, and I’ve realized that, you know, I pay attention to what you just underline is really gratitude and being grateful for all of the things that I know that I deserve. But I remember yesterday and I was having a conversation with my team about how do you just jot down 10 things at the end of each day, which you are grateful for. And those are the things that makes me happy. Because again, as you did say, we all deserve happiness. And you know, for me, I just always want to be intentional. And I really just want to make sure that I’m acknowledging all of the beautiful things that I’ve been able to be around people, energies, but ultimately I’m the only one that’s going to make me happy. So you and I, and everyone deserves happiness. So,
Speaker 1 00:45:55 Yeah. All right. So the final part of our episode today, I would like to ask you some rapid fire.
Speaker 2 00:46:03 Oh my goodness. I don’t like these because it’s
Speaker 1 00:46:05 Now Jamir does not know these questions. So he’s not had access to these before. So are you ready to dance in the moment?
Speaker 2 00:46:15 I’m going to say no, but sure.
Speaker 1 00:46:17 Okay. All right. Jamir, what makes you laugh? Music? What makes you feel strong?
Speaker 2 00:46:25 My pockets.
Speaker 1 00:46:27 What’s the most important characteristic in a friend.
Speaker 2 00:46:30 Oh, um, their, um, their love and compassion.
Speaker 1 00:46:40 What makes you feel alive?
Speaker 2 00:46:44 When I get to dress up into some of my finest and I go to a beautiful event and I hear my gosh for men specifically, yo, you look phenomenal. I’m like, yeah, you did it.
Speaker 1 00:46:59 Yeah. What’s grace.
Speaker 2 00:47:03 God
Speaker 1 00:47:05 Who inspires you?
Speaker 2 00:47:07 My family always,
Speaker 1 00:47:10 What is your purpose?
Speaker 2 00:47:13 My purpose is to leave a legacy. And that legacy is for my platform, my voice to last years after I’m gone. I thought about a question that I talked my barber surprisingly about a few hours ago and we were talking about land and my purpose is to acquire my family’s life. That they’ve worked so hard for and to keep their name strong into established mine for generations to come. So,
Speaker 1 00:47:50 Um, complete these last few sentences. Okay. This is amazing, Johnny. Wow. I see God. When I wake up every morning, I’m most at peace when I I’m
Speaker 2 00:48:06 Reading in the quiet room,
Speaker 1 00:48:09 I struggle with
Speaker 2 00:48:11 Learning fridge.
Speaker 1 00:48:16 Beauty to me is
Speaker 2 00:48:22 In each person’s specific eye.
Speaker 1 00:48:26 And last question, one book everyone should read is,
Speaker 2 00:48:31 Oh my goodness. So I’m interviewing him on my show in a few weeks and all boys aren’t blue, uh, by George Johnson. And the book is just out of this world, phenomenal about the struggles of a young man who has really gone through a lot, but shout out to George because my God, he just got a huge book due. And, um, that, and then also I am finishing the last, um, bit of a promised land by Barack Obama. So,
Speaker 1 00:49:04 All right. All right. Well that brings us to the end Jamir. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Speaker 2 00:49:11 I appreciate you for inviting the Jamir Smith Joe podcast on refractive. And I think that continue doing this because people need a platform like yours, like mine that will continue to uplift and bring the light into people’s lives. And that’s exactly what you’re doing. So please continue to do that. And I appreciate you. We love you. And thank you.
Speaker 1 00:49:35 How can listeners learn more about you if they’re interested?
Speaker 2 00:49:39 Thank you. So of course my Instagram platform, right at 50.2 K followers, I’m a, I’m a little modest, don’t you think? No, but @Jamir_Smith, but then also the podcast is on 10 streaming platforms. You can check it out on Spotify, Apple music, um, God SoundCloud. And it is just my name, the Jamir Smith show podcast.
Speaker 1 00:50:04 All right. All right. Well, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in today to refractive podcasts. This is Johnny G. I am a personal spiritual and career coach based out of Washington, DC. I’m also a public speaker. So if you’d like to learn more about how to get in touch with me, visit my website at www.refractivecoaching.com. You can also find more episodes of this podcast on refractivepodcast.com or you can search refractive podcasts on YouTube as well. If you’ve enjoyed us today, please give us a rating. You don’t have to type a single word, just click a star rating. And it does help us to rise up in the search results so that more people can access this uplifting content. And remember everyone as you go about your day, and as you see beautiful people who are joyful or suffering, never forget to aim your,
Speaker 0 00:51:00 Make it a good.

This guided meditation and visualization explores your highest purpose in life and how you are best equipped to make a lasting impact on those around you. From this place of clarity, you are better able to identify your calling and key archetypes in life and then use that info to “begin with the end” and design a career, a lifestyle, and relationships that lead to that goal. Have a pen and paper ready to write down the content of the visualization as soon as possible. Like a dream, these visualizations often fade quickly. There are instructions given in the meditation on what aspects to pay attention to.

The observations you’ll write down after the meditation point to how you can best build a legacy in harmony with your talents, your spiritual gifts, and your highest calling.

This guided meditation and visualization explores how you are best equipped to make a lasting impact on those around you. From this place of clarity, you are better able to identify your calling and key archetypes in life and then use that info to “begin with the end” and design a career, a lifestyle, and relationships that lead to that goal. The challenge is to honor this guidance when you reach decision points in life. After all, how much is your true calling- a life that feels passionate and right- worth?

As I always tell my clients: you already know, you already are; the answer is in the stillness! Enjoy this relaxing and informative meditation.

Please note: a version of this meditation was first shown to me by the Co-Active Training Institute, the organization that taught me coaching. While I expanded on the original notion, I cannot take credit for the concept. Learn more about CTI by clicking here.

The guided meditations of Steve Nobel, one of my favorite spiritual teachers, is referenced in the recording. You can find his YouTube page here.

For more episodes on living your most authentic and powerful life, try these: A Life that Feels Right and The Courage to Change Careers.

In this episode Johnny G talks with Jodi Akst, Executive Coach, as she shares with Refractive listeners the system she has fine-tuned over the years for not just navigating- but OWNING the chaos and turbulence that inevitably appears in life. From understanding what really matters to leveraging available resources, she offers a simple, powerful method for reclaiming your power whenever life sends you some rough air.

Please visit Jodi’s website at https://www.JodiAkstCoaching.com to learn more about her services, subscribe to her newsletter, or ask any questions you may have.

Jodi referenced Daniel Pink’s book “Drive,” you can find information about Daniel Pink and his books at https://www.danpink.com

For information on how I might be able to help you find clarity and step fully into your power, visit www.refractivecoaching.com

For other episodes on increasing serenity, try Self Care for Parents and The Ancient Truths of Acceptance & PLINKO

Find below a transcript via automated software; please excuse any errors.

Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling, or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you. And it will wait for you as long as you. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening. As we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.

Hello everybody. And welcome to another episode of refractive. Today. I am here with Jody axed. Jody is an executive coach based in Baltimore, and she spent the majority of her professional life working for a nonprofit that sought to end the inequities in our country’s public school systems. She decided to take that passion she had for helping other people and blend it with a home life that felt right. And so she founded her own coaching practice. Jody asked coaching today helps people who are seeking to live a more mission based life. So I’m really happy to have her here today, as we discuss a topic that I think is going to resonate with a lot of people and we decided to call it Jody, owning the turbulence. Right?
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Absolutely. Welcome to
Speaker 1 00:01:28 Refractive. I’m so happy to have you here. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 00:01:32 I’m doing well. Thank you for having me, Johnny.
Speaker 1 00:01:36 Um, I think we have a really nice outline of material to cover. And I mean, if there’s any time where the turbulence feels especially relevant, I think that’s now
Speaker 2 00:01:47 Right in its simplest terms. When I think about owning the term turbulence, I think about just getting through the hard stuff. And uh, if anything, 2020 has been a lot of the hard stuff.
Speaker 1 00:01:59 Yes. Everything feels hard, but you know what today? I like to say all is, well, I have my coffee, I have water. I have my place decorated for the holidays. I’m sitting in a comfortable chair talking with a friend of mine on zoom right now. I mean, what else do I want? It’s like the universe just handed it to me on a silver platter.
Speaker 2 00:02:25 Uh, well, your space is beautiful. Looks like you’re all ready for the holidays, which is really exciting. We just finished deliberating Hanukkah and our house. Um, for me, the only other thing that’s going to make this perfect is that my kids and dog don’t interrupt us. So we’ll see if we can get through that. This is about owning the turbulence.
Speaker 1 00:02:46 Right. So talk to me about the framework that you see for this episode.
Speaker 2 00:02:51 Yeah. So when I think about owning the Chevy Lyndon, as I said, sort of getting through the hard stuff, it takes me back to the reason we landed on the word turbulence is it just takes me back to that when you’re sitting in an airplane and it starts to get bumping and you just think to yourself, Oh my God, when is this going to end? Is this turbulence? Or is there something more going on? Can I stay calm? Can I reassure myself that the plane is not going to fall from the sky? Right. And so that concept of sort of getting through the turbulence is something that I think we all feel in big and small ways at work and at home. So for me, it’s all about knowing that there, that you can get to calm that you were going to get to a better place. Um, and that, that is true when, whether it’s trivalent in your home life or your personal life. And this matters to me. And the reason I wanted to bring this topic forward today is because I’m a leader and I’m a mom in equal measure. And so I have many other humans that are looking to me, um, for cues on how they should feel, how they should act, what they should do.
Speaker 1 00:04:12 And the canine to
Speaker 2 00:04:15 A puppy was a Corona virus puppy. So this topic is just something that that’s really important to me. And now as a coach, because I have a framework for owning turbulence in my life, which I’ll share in a moment, I can relate to my clients and I can help them create their own process. It may not be mine, but it can, I can help them create their own process for getting through those, those tough times. So what do I mean when I’m talking about OMI owning the turbulence and what is this process? So for me, it’s four steps. So it’s finding the calm, which includes anchoring in what matters. And what’s important to me, it’s about getting clear on my options and setting that vision for moving forward. It’s then step three, leveraging the resources and supports that I have all around me to then four, share that vision with everybody involved in whatever it is that we’re going through and getting buy-in so that we can all weather the storm together. And this approach is something that’s allowed me both as a mom and as a professional to continue to reach Michaels, um, and hopefully become better at both
Speaker 1 00:05:34 This really duct Hibbs, uh, dovetails well with some of my guiding principles earlier this year, people who listened to the podcast will know that I took a road trip and it was kind of like a last minute surprise road trip that lasted two months because the apartment I was moving into flooded two or three days before I was moving in, I decided in that moment, uh, to call it above the storm, right? Because when you’re flying in a plane, you hear the pilot say, Oh, we’re going to go around this storm, or we’re going to go over this storm, ladies and gentlemen to avoid turbulence. And so just like for you, it really resonated with me that I don’t need to suffer through pain for the sake of suffering through pain. If there’s a way to bypass it, I don’t need to be a martyr and lay down and suffer for idealistic reasons. And so I love this idea of taking what can be a chaotic situation, breaking it down to more manageable parts and applying it to a smoother life. That sounds really good. Does that kind of capture what you’re talking about?
Speaker 2 00:06:43 Yeah, absolutely captures what I’m talking about. I think when we’re in that moment and things just feel, I think another word that comes to mind chaotic, right? Like owning the turbulence or stabilizing the chaos or sort of two, two phrases or ways. I like to talk about it and think about it, but in my personal life and professionally, and for me, it’s all about understanding what the end game is like, where are we going? And to remember that at the end of the day, we ha we have to try to keep it simple, right? Like when you’re in that moment, your instinct is to catastrophize. If, if I have a word of, of advice or some wisdom to share, it’s when you’re in those moments that you actually want to do the opposite, which is to sort of narrow whatever you’re thinking about and in your approach to handling it and get really down to that common denominator of what you’re trying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 00:07:50 How did you arrive at this conclusion?
Speaker 2 00:07:56 So it’s so interesting when I think about this, you know, I think back to when I was a girl, right, like just sort of who I was naturally like nature versus nurture. And I sorta was just like part of my being my personality was to always sort of like figure out easily and quickly, like, what am I trying to accomplish here? So my parents love to tell this story of why I was in fourth grade, which is really funny because my son is now in fourth grade. So I’m, I’m watching him at that age. So thinking about myself as a ten-year-old and I had to do a book report and I hated reading, I just, there was something about, it was hard for me. I didn’t like it. And so I, I picked a book on dogs, which was a favorite topic of mine. And I picked up a book that was almost like a textbook that had chapters on dogs.
Speaker 2 00:08:47 And I realized as I started looking through this book that I could need the beginning and the end of each of these chapters and understand what it was really about. And that my goal was to just do well in school. Right. Like that was my goal. Um, and so I got really focused on the fact of like, what would it take to get a good grade on this report? And then, and I was able to figure that out and just sort of get down to the basics. And that has really become a methodology for myself, I think too similarly to college. So my whole life as a student, I was not one of those people that spent Saturdays in the library. Like I was able, always able to sort of understand what is the main point? What are we supposed to learn? How do I apply it? And it allowed me to be really capable of just sort of zeroing in on, as I said, that that lowest common denominator. And so it’s, I think some of it is instinctual. And then I think for me, some of it is applied. And then that is where I can think about other examples in my personal life or my work life, where being able to sort of look among the chaos and zero in on the end game has always been my approach.
Speaker 1 00:10:14 Let me tell you, as I worked my way up in my career from line staff to leadership and human resources, I noticed quickly that the difference between the people who were in charge and the people who weren’t in charge was this ability to have a perspective. And I remember when I was on the front line of companies, I cared so much about the little details that, I mean, I would get lost in them. And when I found myself driving culture and, you know, managing performance of, of teams, I realized that there’s a place for that fine detail orientation, but there’s also a place for, for a high level perspective. So, I mean, it’s a, it’s a skill that obviously for you was innate.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 I think so. Right. And I think that there are ways in which we also adapt to our environment. So I think about like my husband and I, we were newly engaged. I was living in New York city. We had this long distance relationship. He came in and we spent a whole weekend registering. Yeah, exactly. Right. And we met a dear friend of ours for a drink after this long day of picking out, chatting up. And, um, she, uh, she happened to also be my boss. So she knew me very well professionally. And we had, we had formed this amazing friendship and she, we talked about our day and she looked at us and she goes, Jody, you are a suffice, you know what you want. And as soon as you find it, you’re done, like it’s met your needs. You feel really good about it and you’re ready to move on. And then on the other hand, my husband is what she called a maximizer. If he’s making a decision, he has to research every option out there. Right? Like the, when we were, you know, I think back to like picking the stroller when, when we were pregnant with our first child, I mean, he knew every single stroller that ever existed or relating it back to the registering. Right. He wanted to look into every China pattern in the store. And I was like, Oh my God, I know what I want.
Speaker 2 00:12:35 And so right. When I think about the two of us and we’ve been able, you know, you asked like, is it a Nate? And it is a Nate. And then I look at the two of us, I say, okay, but we’ve been able as a couple to merge these two styles in a way that has allowed us to be really successful as a team. Um, because there, you don’t always have to be as precise and efficient as I like to be. And you don’t always have to be as expansive as my husband is when it comes to decision-making. And so I do think I am on one end of the spectrum, but that there are many people that have just as strong of an ability to own the turbulence that may fall on all ends of that. Excuse me, may be on all points of that continuum in terms of, of how they want their process to look when they are in these situations.
Speaker 1 00:13:30 All right. Well, that’s, I mean, I feel like that’s an important caveat that this methodology doesn’t require a certain set of gifts or abilities. It really is a formula that anybody can apply,
Speaker 2 00:13:44 Correct. It’s like anything else, it’s a framework and how you choose to apply. It is going to be based on what works best for you. So for me, somebody that is really typically able to pinpoint that end game really quickly, um, I can move past that point on to looking at options and setting my vision fairly quickly for other people. They might have to spend a little bit more time getting clear on what that end game is. They may have to do a little bit more internal reflection, or they may have to do some external processing to understand what that true end game is before they’re ready to move on to the next step. So there’s no right or wrong in any of the stages of the process in terms of how you, how one individual might experience it.
Speaker 1 00:14:37 Okay. So can you recap for us these four steps again, because it’s already, I mean, my mom’s already gone in a million ways.
Speaker 2 00:14:47 Absolutely. Step one is finding the, everybody
Speaker 0 00:14:52 Get out a pen, Siri, record this for me. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:15:00 Finding the calm anchoring in what matters to you, what is the end game? What is really important, if you could sum up what you want to try to, what you want the end of this turbulence period, to look like, what would that end goal look like? Step two, getting clear on your options and vision. So you may know what your end game is, and then there can be tons of different ways to get there. So step two is about spending time thinking about what are my options, and then what is my vision for how we’re going to get there. Three is leveraging your resources and support. So you’re never expected, or I don’t ever expect anyone to have to get through the trivial it’s Allah. And then lastly, sharing this vision with anybody involved. So just to sort of make this come alive a little bit, I can talk a bit about what this looks like in my professional life and in home.
Speaker 2 00:15:59 And I’ll start by saying that I have two amazing children. So I have a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old son, and they each have their, their challenges. So our daughter has moderate to severe ADHD. And our son was born with a congenital heart defect and had open heart surgery when he was 12 weeks old. And he has extreme anxiety, which is correlated to children that have open heart surgery. So their brains work differently. So my home life can be can’t. Um, so when I applied this formula to home and work, I go through the same steps. It just looks a little bit different. So for example, um,
Speaker 0 00:16:43 With the chart, like counting that step one, so maybe you haven’t already refrigerator, I don’t know.
Speaker 2 00:16:51 I’ll tell you, I love a spreadsheet, love a spreadsheet, which I can talk about in a little bit, like what role that plays in terms of this process for me. But I do write, I do like an organizing tool so that if I can get past that emotional initial charge that you’re feeling, whether it’s at home or at, or at work to then help yourself get grounded in what matters. Um, so if it’s helpful, I can, I can talk through what this looks like a little bit. Go ahead, please. Great. I think back to my early days in my career, so as you mentioned, I was a leader in a national nonprofit. I was the program director and later partner for a program called the New York city teaching fellows, which is a program that recruited career changers into education. We were early, early, early in the tenure of understanding how to run these programs.
Speaker 2 00:17:53 We, um, the organization, I worked with consulted to the New York city department of education, and we had tremendous success right out of the gate with this program and found ourselves in a situation where we process these to run the program. Hadn’t caught up to the pace at which we were growing. And this is the point at which I was brought into the team. It became really clear that we needed a singular focus, which is that at any moment in time, we need it needed to take us less than two minutes to know where all our thousands of applicants were in their process of admissions. That was step one, my team. And I got really clear that I should be able to say at any point in time, where is X in the process and anybody on the team should be able to tell me within a couple of minutes?
Speaker 2 00:18:50 Yeah. A similar example. It would be at home for a period of time. Family dinner was just chaos. Like it was, it was not what we wanted to be family dinner. Is it very important to my husband and I, and we had a goal as a family that we would be able to have a family dinner where both children were sitting at the table for a minimum of 10 minutes conversation in which nobody was talking over each other and everybody was feeling heard and seen. Right. So we got very clear on that. Um, so that was step one in both of those scenarios. So then we moved on to thinking about the options and the vision. So at work with the data management system, my vision was that we would have an online applicant tracking tool, but where we would be able to see where everybody else was, every anybody else was in the process. So that vision came into clarity based on my end goal of wanting to be able to know at any point in time where anybody else was in the process at home. As I said, that vision was a minimum of 10 minutes, have a really nice dinner in which we were all sharing our dates. Okay. So that became step two. So then step three becomes leveraging your resources
Speaker 0 00:20:20 For the dinner. Like I can’t wait for, to hear the resources for dinner. Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:20:24 There’s this vision. And now we have to actually get there. And this is where obviously the bulk of the work happens. And in some situations, this, this step of the process can be months. It could even be here is right. It doesn’t happen overnight, but this is about leveraging your resources and figuring out how you’re going to actually do it. So at work, I knew that app that we needed to develop an applicant tracking system. And so then it came down to looking at our budget, looking at our people, resources, figuring out whether we have the skills on our staff to build this, or whether I need to have needed to hire other people. So it, it meant, you know, reconfiguring the budget and, uh, making it a priority to hire. We ended up hiring two developers who built us that the applicant tracking tool and at home, my husband and I looked at each other and said, we don’t know how to do this.
Speaker 2 00:21:24 And we leveraged a family therapist. And so we, as a family, went to family therapy to not have to solve it ourselves, if not getting owning the turbulence doesn’t mean you have to do it by yourself. And then step four, in terms of sharing the vision and getting the buy-in at work, it was about the whole team, understanding what the new processes were going to be for how we worked through our applicant system. But we built the process for processing applicants to align with the tool vice versa. And then we had to get, you know, and get the entire team trained on the new processes and make sure they were comfortable and make sure that we have the quality controls and all of that, that you do when you’re putting in place a new process. And at home family therapists work with us. So that as a family, we, we created this vision together.
Speaker 2 00:22:26 So our kids were part of the solution. The therapist gave them lots of options and they decided they wanted to use a timer. They said that would feel really good if we knew that we could set a timer and that mom and dad had an expectation that we would sit here for 10 minutes, it made it doable for them. And so that was, that was what we did to realize our vision of being able to sit for 10 minutes. And now, you know, a couple of years later, it’s not uncommon for us to have 30 minute dinners or even longer because the kids learned what it looked like and felt like to be part of that and to get all of the benefits of having that time as a family every night, those are a couple of examples of how, how those steps actually look in the real world.
Speaker 1 00:23:21 You know, I find that when something starts to go, maybe not even wrong, but when something feels like it’s not going in the direction, I wanted it to like my first reaction as a perfectionist and as a people pleaser, I mean, I got to say is to scratch everything and start over and say, I’m not doing this right. And this whole plan is doomed and we’re going to have to start over. And it feels like this gives an alternative to that gut response.
Speaker 2 00:24:04 So these are obviously the four steps that you can do sequentially, but then you can go back to any of the steps. At any point in time with work, we were halfway through building the applicant tracking tool. We weren’t where we needed to go. And our client was like breathing down our neck about the inefficiencies in our process. And so we needed a bandaid. We needed an alternative solution to get us through that period of time prior to having the, like the big vision, um, real well. And so we had to have a concurrent manual process that we did for a time being. And that was okay. It didn’t pull us away from the end game. It wasn’t like, Oh, no, like we can’t do this applicant tracking tool because now the client needs this faster. It was like, okay. So this is just a bum.
Speaker 2 00:25:00 We’re going to continue with our vision, which we feel really strongly is the right vision. And we’re gonna do this concurrent process to continue to move us forward while we are getting to the final approach. Um, and then at home, I mean, if I tell you that we would use the timer, we got to a place where things were good. And then, you know, six months later it was like, we’ve never had a family dinner, right? Like things got crazy. Again, the kids were not wanting to come to the table or they were shouting over each other. And we went back to the time or we went back to the base. And I think that that is something that I focus on a lot in my work and with my clients, which is when you’ve tried something and it’s worked, if you veer away from it, it doesn’t mean it didn’t work. It means that sometimes you just have to go back and make sure you’re implementing it with fidelity. And that’s what we did at home. We brought that timer back out and we will bring it out anytime we needed to, when our vision of our family dinner is veering from what wa
Speaker 1 00:26:15 That feels comforting. Like I actually like, like, I have a response to hearing you say that because even today, while I don’t necessarily let those perfectionistic impulses drive me the way they used to, I’ve developed tools and systems and different beliefs. And I’ve healed a lot around that. I still, I mean, even decorating that Christmas tree, like there, there was a, a point it’s like, wait, I need to like, take the lights off the tree, take the tree out of the stand, recut the base of the tree. And that actually went through my mind because it wasn’t doing what I wanted it to do. And it’s like, wait, hold on, hold on. We don’t need to start everything all over. It doesn’t mean that the system is broken. It means we just need to go back and look, where does it make sense to reapply a tool? You know?
Speaker 2 00:27:14 Absolutely. Right. The old cliche don’t throw away the baby with the bath water. Right. I think there are very few instances where you have to start from scratch. Um, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes there might be, but if you’re really clear end game, you usually have made some sort of progress towards it to the extent that you don’t have to start. For sure. So one of the other things that I’ve learned over the years, right, as I’ve grown as a human, is that stabilizing Cass or owning the turbulence, isn’t just about the doing, it has to be about the feeling. So I think back to early in my career, I was relentless about goals. I mean, if people would say, tell me about Jody, they would say she’s results oriented. Like she’s just going to get there, um,
Speaker 1 00:28:13 Group, project people that was like cracking the whip, you know, handing out the, the assignments to the group.
Speaker 2 00:28:20 Right? Absolutely. I was a no excuses. Like we are getting there, I think back. So I’m only five feet tall. And I lived in New York city, as I mentioned. And I, because of my height, I wore heels and I walked miles in New York city every day in my high heels. And I’m not really known for my grace and I have this, I have this like determined walk, right? Like my coworkers always knew when I was coming. Cause I’d be clomping through the office, a clipboard in one hand, my water bottle and the other just clumping to my next meeting. And that sort of, that image of myself, when I think back to it just symbolizes this laser focus that I had on meeting our goals, which served me well in a lot of instances, but it, it’s not what true leadership is really about. And so as I’ve matured, I’ve learned how to be relentless towards my goals and just softer in depth.
Speaker 2 00:29:23 Um, I still clump around quite a bit, right like that, but it’s no longer about no excuses. It’s no longer about the goal regardless of what else is going on. Um, and this really, I think I learned this lesson more so at home than I even did at work. I, you know, when I became a mom and I had these two children with these emotional challenges, um, my instinct was to over plan and over control. I just have this approach, which is if I have the spreadsheet and I know what we’re supposed to be doing scheduled every moment in every day, then things can’t go wrong. Right. And one of my children’s early therapist said, if you want to actually teach your children to be flexible, you have to model that flexibility.
Speaker 1 00:30:20 I don’t know if we’re ready for that. I mean, Lord,
Speaker 2 00:30:24 I don’t think that there were words that my husband, that, that were uttered that my husband, wasn’t more excited to hear.
Speaker 1 00:30:31 Oh, I can imagine. Because Jody, you seem like someone, I would love to walk through the mall with, you know, cause like I need, when I’m walking through the mall, I need someone who knows where they want to go. And I need someone who is not moseying standing in the direct center of the pathway with or four Nordstrom bags blocking everybody. Right. Like I need, I need a mall partner when this is all over Jody. And I feel like you’re my mall partner through that bad boy.
Speaker 2 00:31:03 Oh my God. Happy, happy, happy to do that. Um,
Speaker 1 00:31:09 Okay. So I took you completely off track.
Speaker 2 00:31:12 That’s fine. I love that. And that’s so true, but here’s the thing, the difference between who I was before and who I am now is that we will still have a plan and I still can get us through that mall as quickly as you want to go, we might venture off and do a store that we hadn’t planned to. Right. Like it will be a little bit more fun than just the dog and determination to get through there as quickly as possible. Um, and you know, now that my kids are older, um, they, they keep it real for me. So they, um, when they see me being flexible or realize that I’m, I’m not being over-planned or not, you know, don’t have everything. So tightly wound, my, you know, my name is Jody. They call that person Joni. Um, and they get so excited and it comes from, this is like my daughter and I were out shopping one day and a sales person misheard me in terms of what my name was and started calling me Joanie. And she thought that was hilarious. Joni is now my persona when I need to lighten up. And when I’m not trying to over control. And it really speaks to the fact that when you’re going through day to day and particularly in tough times that the, the light, the lightened approach often just makes it that much easier to weather the storm.
Speaker 1 00:32:44 So, okay. So this is great. When we’re talking about the inside work here, we’re talking about, I’m putting on my Joanie hat today and I’m making a conscious effort to, to own the turbulence through these four steps, through understanding what’s happening relating to my vision. Right. And, uh, leveraging my resources and getting buy in. But what happens when there are people around you like hard-headed coworkers, um, or, you know, you talked about like working with a child who doesn’t necessarily see the value in being flexible. Like I want what I want when I want it and I want it, let me be clear. I want it. So how do you handle this? How do you become Joanie when you don’t have a willing partner who is supporting you in this drive?
Speaker 2 00:33:37 Yeah. So I think it comes down to two things, right? So one is myself having confidence that, that we’re going to be okay. Right. Like, so I do those spreadsheets so that I’m clear on my goals and my visions. And then I have to let it go. I just started to have to be, and the other is communicate, communicate, communicate. So, and this is, and it’s communicating about expectations and visions, but not necessarily the, how would you actually make, which actually makes me think of, um, Daniel Pink’s work. So he’s an author who often raised about motivation. He’s known for a book called drive and a couple others drive. Yeah. And he says, which I agree with him wholeheartedly when people have their own way of doing something, they are more likely to do it when you’re in that situation where the buy-in is, is not great, where you were hoping it would be, you have that child that wants what they want or the coworker that’s not quite there yet.
Speaker 2 00:34:45 In terms of this vision, it’s really about going back to the shared vision and making sure that they understand what it is and then collaborating. And this works for a two year old, a 10 year old, a 13 year old. I’ll tell you when my kids are older, whether it works on their oldest and it works with coworkers, which is okay, so here’s where we’re trying to go. How do you want to do it? What, what matters to you? And then truly as a leader and as a mom being okay with what their response is so that they then have a lot of autonomy and a lot of ability to do it their way. And this is what’s really exciting to me about this is that that’s really what the core tenants of coaching. So with my coaching clients, my, one of the main things I’m doing is helping them find their way, whatever, whatever it is that we’re talking about, it’s about finding their way when you’re in a situation where you yourself have a vision and have an idea of how you want to go, you are, you need to be open to others, what they want as well.
Speaker 2 00:36:07 And then, you know, as a coach, it’s all about supporting my clients to find their way, and then equipping them with the support and confidence to be able to reach their goals.
Speaker 3 00:36:23 I hear you say, you’re listening. And I’m glad to hear that because when I look back at my career and all the times, let’s say a company would get a strategy, come down from the corporate office and we’d go to implement it. And we would have round tables and, uh, discussion groups and all this stuff about how to implement this and that. I found so often that the people who were managing the teams directly were not really interested in input and the people that you’ve invited to a round table to give input, no, when you aren’t interested in the input.
Speaker 3 00:37:16 And so this idea of being willing to hear and accept as valid, even if it’s not the end point of the conversation, but accept as valid the result in comments. I think that, I think that matters. People want to be heard. They want to be acknowledged, you know, to disregard someone’s concerns with a solution or a plan or a strategy, whether it’s how to, how to make these unbearable, 10 minutes of family dinner go by, or whether it is reorganizing after a mass layoff at work, like whatever it is. People want to know that what they have to say counts.
Speaker 2 00:38:02 Yeah. One of the things that I believe really strongly in, um, and once again applies both professionally and personally is being really clear on the negotiables and the non-negotiables. So with my kids, sometimes we use a red, yellow, green system at work. I often use, I feel strongly about this, or I don’t feel strongly about this so that you’re calibrating, people’s expectations about whether they do have a voice and whether they don’t. And so that way, when they don’t, you’re very clear on that. I feel very strongly about this. This is how we’re going to do this is very different than so I have this idea. I don’t feel so strongly about it. I have a vision for where we’re going, but I’d love to get your input for how we’re going to get there. And then truly listening to that. And in most cases ending up with a much better end product than you might’ve on your own. And so I’m a huge, huge believer in calibrating those expectations and then following through. So if you believe that something needs to be done a certain way, say that right out of the gate, don’t give people a false sense that you’re listening. And if you don’t, if you really do want to collaborate, then be very clear that you’re going to collaborate and then make sure you actually do that. So that approach has worked for me and I, I believe really strongly.
Speaker 3 00:39:36 So for the listeners, I want to, I wanna, I want to return to this and underlying it real quick, because I’m imagining that if I were listening to this, I hear these four steps and they sound great, but it requires the participation of the people around me. And sometimes those people around me are the resources that we’re talking about, leveraging and things in order for this system to help smooth over the difficulties. It requires a certain integrity and integrity on the part of, I care enough about you to bring this to you. And to be honest with you to say, I’m sorry, this is not a discussion that it makes sense to have. We already have our plan in place. And I just want to be honest about that or asking for feedback when you mean it and being respectful of that, you know, that integrity matters, I suppose, when you’re trying to get people to buy into your plan.
Speaker 2 00:40:47 Yeah. Integrity. And the other thing I would add onto that is transparency. So, um, when I think about my values and what matters to me in professional situations, candor and transparency are really high on that list. Um, and that, that comes down to respect, right? Which is that you, the people around you need to feel trapped, need to feel respected and to feel respected. I believe you share things in a transparent manner so that they understand, and you treat them as adults that are capable of handling situations. And, and when you’re doing that, then you’re showing up with a ton of integrity and the people around you are always understand where the, where do they fit in both in terms of, um, how you value them and when you want to meaningfully involve them. Um, and I think that goes a really long way of building collaborative teams and being able to get through any turbulence that you might find yourselves.
Speaker 3 00:41:58 All right. So Jody, take us home. Let’s bottom line, all of this cat, because as a former trainer, which was a major part of my career, anytime we’re given people a series of steps or whatever, we gotta, we gotta repeat it again. So walk us through some of your main points and then recap those four key steps for us.
Speaker 2 00:42:20 Absolutely. And I’ll start by saying as sort of a theme of this whole podcast, which is that this is what’s worked for me. So I invite the audience to take what they’re finding meaningful and useful in this process and go with it and adapt it as it might work better for them, for me, when I find myself in a situation that is overly chaotic or is feeling very turbulent, I first find the calm, right? I anchor in what matters and what’s important. I get really clear on that big idea. And then I look at my options to set my vision for where I’m trying to go. Once that is clear, I look at my resources and my support. I don’t have to do this alone. You don’t have to do this alone. There’s nothing that I’ve gotten through in my professional career or my personal life that I hadn’t leveraged resources and asked for help.
Speaker 2 00:43:15 Um, and I don’t think I said that in those simple terms on this podcast at this point, asking for help is really important and everybody should feel comfortable doing it. And then lastly involve everybody that is part of the solution and get a shared vision and buy-in with them. And that’s going to make everything you’re going to be able to get through whatever you’re getting through faster. And, and everyone involved is gonna want to get there with you. So those are the four steps that have worked really well for me. I don’t know when this is going to air, but we’re, we’re sort of at the end of 2020 right now. So as we sort of close the book on this chapter and move into 2021, I hope we all find ourselves dealing with a whole lot less turbulence, but know that whatever is ahead of us, that everybody can be equipped to really own the turbulence, not let it derail them and get to a place that they want to get to and meet their needs.
Speaker 3 00:44:15 Yeah. What are the things that I was thinking about recently is on Facebook every year without fail by the second half of December, people are posting about what a year it was and how next year’s gotta be better. And I mean, it is an annual tradition about talking about how awful the year was and while 2020 was certainly noteworthy for a lot of reasons. Yeah. I think it is important to maintain a perspective that things, how can I say this? First of all, I want to be respectful for people. Who’ve had their lives turned upside down and I don’t want to diminish any tragedies or anything like that because you know, that’s not what that’s, that’s, that’s not the spirit of what I’m saying, but I want to say that there are gifts that each of us were born with and also may have been given over the years and they might be experiences.
Speaker 3 00:45:27 They might be people in our lives, but we all have these gifts that are like battery packs. And they allow us to move through a slow patch and move through the quick sand that we find ourselves in from time to time. And I believe that if we forget our access to these gifts, whatever they are, we’re doing ourselves a disservice we’re hurting our lives. And we are giving in to this turbulence. We’re screaming that the plane’s going down when that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s probably not what’s happening. And, uh, you know, I think the perspective of finding your calm, looking at the options, leveraging your supports and resources, reaching out for help and noticing what you have around you to make it through and then partnering, getting buy in communicating, being transparent. Um, you know, I just think that this is a valuable path to regain some of the power that we may have given up inadvertently maybe during difficulty and whether you need to tape this to your bathroom wall so that you can remember and internalize this, whether you want to play this episode on repeat, I’m not going to stop you from doing that please, but whatever it is you need to do, uh, maybe you even carry a little note of your favorite point of this in your, in your wallet or in your purse.
Speaker 3 00:47:16 Maybe it just says, what are my resources right now? What is my calm? What really matters right now, having just, even one of those little valuable points, staying your orbit can be a game changer when something unexpected knocks you off your balance. And, and the whole point of this podcast, it’s always been to give people resources, to step into their own magnificent power. And I feel like through your introspection and observations, you’ve been able to come up with a tool that can be helpful for people. And I, I want to thank you so much for the thoughtfulness of sharing that with us today. And I’d like to ask you Jody, to share with our listeners how they can get in touch with you. Maybe they have questions. Maybe they’re curious about your practice. Maybe they just want to thank you for your, for your efforts today. Um, but how can people learn more about you and your coaching and get in touch?
Speaker 2 00:48:22 Well, Johnny, first of all, thank you so much for having me today. This is so fun and I hope that your listeners are walking away with a few nuggets that they are going to be able to take into 2021, no matter what this year brings us. My website is Jody axed, coaching.com. And I will spell that J O D I, my last name is axed, which is a as in Apple, K as in kite, S as in Sam, T as in Tom, a mouthful, but actually a phonetic. So Jody asked Jody taxed coaching.com my website, and on there, uh, there are ways to get in touch with me. So I would welcome anybody to reach out questions or just to say hi, or just subscribe to my newsletter or whatever way in which, um, you would like to.
Speaker 3 00:49:13 All right. Well, thank you, Jody, that does it for today. Anything else that you want to say before we close out
Speaker 2 00:49:21 Just that Johnny, this podcast is, is a joy and thank you for bringing it into the world. Um, and for having me as a guest in the conversation,
Speaker 3 00:49:32 I appreciate that. Thank you, Jerry. All right, everybody you’ve been listening to refractive podcast. This is Johnny G and my guest today was Jody ax. And you can find her contact information in the show notes on the podcast page, the webpage, the YouTube page, et cetera. I am a personal, spiritual and career coach. I’m based out of Washington, DC. I am also a speaker and I’m here to help people step into their own authentic power and live their best lives. So if you’d like to get in touch with me, my email address is Johnny J O H N N *@****************ng.com. You can also visit the website for information on the ways that I can be of se*****@****************ng.com. Thank you so much, everyone for listening and always remember, be good to each other and aim your
Speaker 4 00:50:23 Take care.

Enjoy this recording of a powerful live event: “Coaches in Conversation- How to Jumpstart (or Refresh) Your Job Search.” Join Executive Coach Randi Braun, Founder of Something Major Coaching joins forces and Johnny Guidry of Refractive Coaching as they share their best tips on how to navigate the waters of the job search process. Topics covered include: elevating your resume & LinkedIn game; great networking in a virtual world, interview best practices, pursuing a purpose-driven career, self-care and resilience, and more.

We’re all in this together- let’s lift each other up!

Make sure you visit the Something Major website at www.SomethingMajorCoaching.com

For similar content, try this episode of Refractive Podcast: Exceptional Resumes- An HR Director’s Best Tips & Pet Peeves

Find more information at www.RefractiveCoaching.com and www.RefractivePodcast.com

More content to help you live your most authentic life, including this episode in video format, is found on the Refractive YouTube channel.

Aim your light!

This episode of Refractive Podcast features Tom Coderre, Acting Assistant Secretary of SAMHSA, the Federal Agency overseeing Mental Health and Substance Abuse. He describes his path through addiction, his fall from the ambitious life he had crafted, and the road to redemption and self acceptance. Tom shares the lessons he learned about himself that help him to turn the volume down on self-judgment and find the loving care he deserves.

Tom Coderre had painful secrets. Growing up in a Catholic, political family in Rhode Island, with aspirations of elected office and a life in the spotlight, there seemed no room left for one major aspect of his life, a part of him that refused to sit quietly in the corner: his homosexuality. Balancing his outer world with his inner reality caused him a great deal of pain- a pain Tom managed through alcohol and other substances. While on the outside Tom’s life looked ideal- he was a Rhode Island State Senator at 25, then the Chief of Staff for the Rhode Island Senate President, this denial of his true nature brought his career crashing down around him, leaving him with no home, no career, and not even a will to live.

Through the world of 12 step-based recovery, Tom relaunched his life and today focuses both publicly and personally on helping others who are running from themselves and their problems with the aid of alcohol and drugs. By being willing to look inside himself and make peace with what he found, Tom opened the door to a more serene way of life and a life-long adventure of self-acceptance.

Join Johnny G and Tom in this important discussion around how to look in the mirror- and really see.

Links to materials referenced in this episode:

Daily Beast web story on the Call Me By Your Name monologue: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-call-me-by-your-name-monologue-leaving-audiences-in-tears

Click Here for Spiritual Teacher Byron Katie’s website.

Here is the link to the book Call Me By Your Name by Andre Aciman. I get neither money nor any other benefit from this link.

For similar content, try these episode of Refractive Podcast: Making Peace with our Dark Side or The Ancient Truths of Acceptance & PLINKO

Visit www.RefractiveCoaching.com and www.RefractivePodcast.com for more resources. More content to support you in living your most authentic life, including the video version of this episode, can be found on the Refractive YouTube Page at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

Episode Transcript below, compiled via automated software service. Please excuse any wrongly-identified words or punctuation errors.

Speaker 0 00:00:03 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest that tells you to move to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear it calling, or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there and it will wait for you as long as you need. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.
Speaker 1 00:00:40 Hi everybody. And welcome to refractive podcasts. I am Johnny G and I have a guest with me here today. Mr. Tom Coderre. Tom is currently a regional administrator with SAMHSA. That is the federal agency that works with substance abuse and mental health issues. Before that he was a senior advisor to the governor of Rhode Island and going back into his history, he was a member of the Rhode Island Senate. He was also chief of staff for the president of the Senate. So Tom, welcome. I’m so happy to have you join us on refractive.
Speaker 2 00:01:13 Thank you, Johnny. It’s great to be here. I know we’ve been talking about this for a while and I’m excited. The day has finally come.
Speaker 1 00:01:19 Yeah, we’re good friends. You and I, uh, for the listeners out there, Tom and I have been in the same circles in Washington DC for several years, even though he’s moved back to Rhode Island, you know, we’ve still maintained a pretty close friendship. And because I know some of his background, as I was thinking about potential topics and podcast guests, he was on my short list. And so Tom, you and I, we decided that something that might have some good meat to it was talking about self-acceptance. And so, uh, why don’t you fill us in on some of the, maybe some of the aspects of this that you and I have reflected on?
Speaker 2 00:01:56 Well, before I know we’re going to talk about self-acceptance and gut got a whole podcast to do that, but before we begin, I’d love to share a short story with your listeners. Is that okay? This one is about a man who, by the time he was 30 years old, uh, was pretty successful by most people’s standards. He came from a good loving family and he had many friends. He had been employed in nonprofit management and development for many years, and he had risen in his career to become the executive director of a large nonprofit agency.
Speaker 1 00:02:29 Oh, I thought you was talking about me for a second, but that’s not what we’re talking about. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:02:34 This man was also very involved in his community and he had a love of politics. Uh, he got elected to the state Senate when he was 25 years old on the outside. Everything about this man’s life looked normal, some might even say perfect. However, on the inside he was tortured. So he turned first to alcohol and then to other drugs cope with the stresses that he was experiencing underestimating the power of these substances and not understanding the neurological consequences of taking them. He quickly became addicted and his life, well, his life started this downward spiral. As his life began to unravel. He started to lose the things that were most important to him. When his family and friends tried to help, he resisted their help. He pushed them away. This caused him to lose them. Um, he lost interest in politics. He lost his job and eventually his position in the Senate, his health deteriorated he’d lost his apartment and became homeless.
Speaker 2 00:03:36 He lost his spirit. He lost his freedom in the end. He lost pretty much everything. Even his desire to live this man’s life, which at one time was so full of hope, became hopeless. And I know this story pretty well because as some of you may have guessed it’s mine. And fortunately I was able to get the help that I needed. And today I’m a person in long-term recovery, which for me means I haven’t used alcohol or drugs since May 15th of 2003. And my life has gotten a whole lot better. In fact, uh, being in recovery has not just enabled me to create a better life for myself, but it’s also been able, I’ve been able to create a better life for my family and ultimately my entire community because, uh, recovery, uh, does that for people, everything about you changes when you get into recovery, it’s not just about stopping the use of alcohol and other drugs.
Speaker 2 00:04:29 It’s about creating that better life. And so that’s kind of, I thought would be helpful to frame things, Johnny, so that your listeners knew kind of the perspective I was coming from. I want to let you know that one of the reasons that I used alcohol and other drugs was a lack of self-acceptance and it was a lack of self-acceptance, uh, particularly around sexuality. Um, I was attracted to men and I was confused by that. I was, I was raised a Roman Catholic and I was part of a political family. My mom was also involved in politics. So I learned to suppress, uh, my sexuality and those feelings that I had for men at a young age and pretend that they didn’t exist. You know, when I realized that my alcohol and drug use was getting out of control, right. And I tried to reel it back in and, and get into recovery, I failed because I was riddled with fear and afraid to expose that part of myself.
Speaker 2 00:05:33 Uh, so I continued to struggle and I knew if I was going to be successful on this journey, I needed to face my fears, as they say in recovery, right. Uh, fears are either like, um, freak everything and run or face everything and recover. So I had to face everything and I started sharing this for first with my counselor and treatment. I shared it in psychotherapy, very slowly started to share it in 12 step meetings. And, and, you know, I was doing spiritual direction at the time I was doing everything I could to kind of be additive to my recovery process and to make a very long painful story short. What I came to find out in the end is that the only one that had a problem with me being gay was me. And, uh, you know, and that the sooner I could figure that out, that the easier it was going to be on this journey of life, not just of recovery but of life and that there’s an, I could get self-acceptance around it. The more freedom I would gain in my own personal life.
Speaker 1 00:06:38 It’s so powerful to come to the conclusion that you did, that the only issue is inside yourself. It’s one of the major signposts of spiritual growth. And I know that you’ve gone through this and I’ve certainly experienced it. That the problems that we perceive are from our own ego centered fears, you know, that really is the reality that we project and create and manufacture and the people around us sensitive energy beings that everybody is, they give us exactly what we ask for. You know, I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s fascinating to realize that the power was inside the whole time, right? Like th th the authority to drop the pain was within you. It’s like, Dorothy, like you’ve had the power the whole time. You just weren’t ready for it. You know?
Speaker 2 00:07:34 Exactly. Well, it’s funny that you say that too, because, you know, I think about my family, like my family, and I still don’t talk about this. And, and the reason we don’t talk about it is because I’ve made it very clear to them. Like through that energy, never, never spoken, but through that energy that I don’t want to talk about it, that this is like a topic that’s off limits. And it drives me insane because I really probably should be talking. I mean, like, that’s probably next on my list of things to tackle in this process 17 years later, um, is to, is to actually get honest with them and say, you know what, this is who I am. This is what I’ve gone through. Um, you know, they know they already know, but I’ve just made it, and I’ve invited them to things where I’ve talked about it.
Speaker 2 00:08:26 Like I’ve had different ways to kind of express it to them. Um, but I’ve kind of also at the same, it’s one of these things where we do this, you know, I want you to come closer, but stay farther away. And like you said, that’s an energy that we set up with them. And, uh, I got to break through that in some way. And I got to breakthrough through it with like, I’ve, I’ve been able to break through with it with friends I’ve been able to break through and recovery circles. I’ve been able to break through even in the workplace where I’ve had some really uncomfortable, but important growth opportunities to talk about this. And I’m glad I, I, at the end of these conversations that I have with people, I’m always happy. I’ve had it. I’ve never been I’ve, I’ve never like regretted having the conversation. So I don’t know why that doesn’t inspire me to just do it more, but, but it’s that fear. It’s that fear?
Speaker 1 00:09:19 What do you, if I can, if I can ask this, what do you assume their willingness and openness to, to talk about this with you is like, you know,
Speaker 2 00:09:31 It’s, it’s, that’s hard to say, but, you know, I think it might behoove us to kind of like, turn the clock back a little bit. Right. And to talk about kind of where the, where that was, where the fear was rooted, because I kind of mentioned growing up a Roman Catholic being part of a political family, societal norms, being what they were at the time, like people didn’t talk about the sixties, seventies, seventies, and eighties were what I grew up. And, and it was, um, it was during those, you know, those decades that I learned these behaviors and anybody who was gay, hit it, and didn’t talk about it. And even the sexual experiences I had early on in life, it was like, it was wrong. It was like hush, hush. Like it was anonymous. Like it was like all, all these clues that, that I had was like, no, you don’t talk about this.
Speaker 2 00:10:33 You don’t talk about it. You don’t dress it. You pretend like it goes with, and, and I even dated women. Um, so too, I mean, part of it was because I was confused, like I said earlier, and I was trying to figure that out, like, okay, can I actually kind of actually have a sexual attraction to a woman? Can I actually have kind of do, can I perform right. Um, in, in that way. And, and I was, and so then I was like, well, maybe I’m bisexual. Uh, but then thinking about, you know, the emotional connection that we bring to relationships, I, I wasn’t able to make those same kinds of emotional connections with women that I was with men. So that’s how I ended up, you know, and I had conversations with people that people were like, you gotta pick, you know, you just got to pick one.
Speaker 2 00:11:18 And I was like, well, that’s a little, that’s a little simplistic maybe, or cause, and I don’t think the generation today thinks that way either right generation today. I mean, they have a different, they’re growing up in a different time where, where things are different back then, you know, you really, the, all the cues were that you, you didn’t talk about it. Things were not fluid. You were one or the other. And, you know, if you accepted one, your life was going to be somehow you were going to be ridiculed and you were going to be an outcast and you were going to have to really fight for yourself every single day. And I was like, not interested in doing that. Plus I had these plans to be, you know, to, to run for elective office and to, and to be, you know, this upstanding member of my community and how I would, how in God’s name was I supposed to, uh, reconcile those two things. Right. Um, and so, yeah, so this is what ended up forcing me to push that part of myself further in to myself. And, uh, and I regret that, you know, I, I, I regret that, but I don’t live in regret today because I realized, you know, my human experience was exactly the human experience I needed to have at that time. And it was okay. And, uh, today I have awareness around these things, um, that I never would have had. Um, had I not gone through those experiences,
Speaker 1 00:12:45 I don’t know about you, but when I look back at the times where I abused alcohol, I often really appreciate the role that alcohol played for me, because I feel that if I didn’t have those moments of feeling free of that crippling, crushing fear that you talked about, if I didn’t have those untethered moments where alcohol made me able to see a future that could feel free, I’m not sure, I’m not sure I’d be alive. I think I would have killed myself, you know, and in that, in that sense, I really do appreciate the role it played for me. What was that like for you? Well, I’ve never really,
Speaker 2 00:13:35 What about it that way, but that makes a lot of sense to me, of course, because I had those same experiences. Right. So, um, I used alcohol to, um, lower my inhibitions and because I lowered my inhibitions, I was able to experience things that I wouldn’t have experienced otherwise. So yeah. Then I could, that was kind of the experimental part of like, do I, do I like being in this situation with this, with this person or these people? Um, and can I, you know, can I survive in that, in that time kind of dynamic and, and you’re absolutely right. And I wouldn’t have known that if I had not had that, that, that helper, so to speak.
Speaker 1 00:14:19 Yeah. So how did you move from this, I guess this period of fear and frustration with what your insides were saying to a new way of processing life? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:14:38 Well, as I spoke about in telling about my story, you know, it became a survival, you know, a requirement for survival, right? Um, I almost died as a result of my addiction. I got into recovery, I was 132 pounds. Um, you looked into my eyes, you wouldn’t think I had a soul. I was on this declining pathway. Right. Um, that, that I could have, I could have died from my, from my disease. So when I got into recovery and I knew I had to address this like alcohol and other drugs were, but a symptom of my problem, those were things I used to change the way I felt or not to feel. And so I realized without those things, I was going to have to feel again, and from a survival perspective, I was going to have to deal with that. So I started, um, like I said, sharing this, you know, with my counselor and treatment, who, who validated my, you know, my experience and who said that was okay to feel that way.
Speaker 2 00:15:39 I ended up getting, going to 12 step meetings. They have 12 step meetings who that are specific to LGBT people. And I met people there who were just like me, and I heard their stories, what were just like mine. And, you know, people told my story at the meeting. I got a sponsor who was gay, who had those experiences, who I could talk with about mine, you know? And I just kind of plowed through, it’s kind of like that old saying, they have that courage is not an absence of fear, but it’s what we do in spite of it. You know, you have to kind of summon the courage to kind of plow through these issues, to address them, like, to actually show up at that first meeting, as uncomfortable as that felt inside. And as I was walking up the pathway to the door, as I put my hand on the door to push it, to go into that meeting, I had second thoughts and I was like, I’m not, I can’t do this.
Speaker 2 00:16:37 And I had to push forward again and say, well, if I don’t do this, I may die. And so I did, I did that work and then it’s never really become easier. I want to say that too. I’ve just gotten better at plowing through, right. I’ve gotten stronger and able to power through, but I still get those same feelings that the butterflies in my stomach, I remember I took a Dale Carnegie course when I was in my twenties. And the instructor, Dale Carnegie courses are about learning how to be a better public speaker. Typically. I mean, there’s a lot of other stuff that go along with them, but that’s why I took it. And one of the, my classmates in the class raised her hand one night and she asked the professor, she said, every time I get up to speak, I have these butterflies in my stomach.
Speaker 2 00:17:27 She said, when will they go away? And he thought for a moment. And he said, I don’t, they don’t go away. What we do is we learn to, to, to teach them how to fly in formation. And I thought that was beautiful. And I’ve kept that with me for all these years. And I think that’s the same kind of experience I have about, uh, about dealing with my sexuality or my lack of, um, it’s not, it, it never becomes comfortable for me. It’s always uncomfortable, but I’ve taught those butterflies to fly in formation. So that gives me the strength to kind of move forward. It’s like, okay, I felt this before. I know what this is. This is fear. Um, this isn’t something, you know, this is a momentary feeling. It’s not a fact it’s going to go away. I’m going to get to the other side of it.
Speaker 2 00:18:10 I’m going to feel a lot better when I get to the other side of it. So I’ve gone out and I’ve, um, I’ve shared at conventions now. Uh, there’s a convention down in Florida called the rainbow convention where I told I spoke for an hour, told my whole story. I told them things that I never thought I would share publicly. Uh, and, and here I am sitting in a room of 500 people sharing my story about that. I went to the world convention of the fellowship that I’m, that I’m a member of in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. And at the world convention, I got asked to lead the LGBT workshop and shared a lot about my experiences dealing with this as well. So yeah, so these experience has, have, have also, it’s not like I’m some expert in this and that I’m able to then share about it. It’s that I’m going through it right now. Like I’m in the middle of it and I’m going through it. And I share about what it’s like to go through it. Um, the other piece is, is like, when I share about it, whether it’s today or any of the other times, I do a little preparation, right. I get prepared for those conversations. And that is an opportunity for growth as well. For me, where I’m able to then, uh, dig a little deeper, like scratch a little bit more beneath the surface.
Speaker 1 00:19:29 What do you mean by prepare for it? So
Speaker 2 00:19:31 Well, I’ll, you know, I’ll be like, Hey, I really love to share this part of my story today. You know, am I strong enough to do that? And what does it involve? So I have to go back and think about that part of my story and think about like, okay, how, how did that occur? Why did it occur? What made me like that? And so I’m scratching beneath the surface to, you know, the origins of where these feelings come from and what experiences I had, some of the experiences, which I’ve, like I said, stuffed down so deep inside of me that it’s taken years for them to emerge again. But that preparation brings those things up and helps me and helps guide me. And then kind of takes me to the next level where, you know, so that’s what growth is, all the great growth doesn’t happen. You don’t go from here to here, right? You go from, you go from here to here and then to here and then to here and then here. So the part of growth that happens, it happens by, for me, it happens by doing those kinds of having those kinds of opportunities and following through with them.
Speaker 1 00:20:40 Yeah, because you know, not everybody is a gay man from a blue collar state part of a Catholic political family. But you know, everybody through these formulative years gets told by society that there’s something about them. That’s not good enough. Right. It’s just a part of growing up in our culture that we get pushed down due to the fears of other people, right. Due to other people’s need to feel that they’re okay. And so I just, you know, not everybody who’s listening is going to walk into a 12 step meeting tomorrow and be able to dig deep and scrape this up and share it. But there are ways that if someone is like in the, in the 12 step community, we say honest open-minded and willing. If someone is honest, open-minded and willing, there are ways to go inside. You know, I tell my clients that the answer is always, always any answer is always in the stillness.
Speaker 1 00:21:47 And whether that is through journaling, through talking with a trusted friend or a religious advisor or a therapist. Yeah. Meditation that’s right. Like to go inside and look at what’s there, because one of my favorite Tom, one of my favorite spiritual teachers, her name is Byron Katie. And I mentioned her on almost every episode because she’s just so fantastic. She talks about how the root of all suffering is believing and uninvestigated story. And that any time we feel pain, because we feel we’ve lost something, lost someone we’re not good enough, we’re believing something that we weren’t born believing that we came to accept as truth. But that if we were to stop thinking about, we would stop feeling the pain and the minute we go back to thinking about it, we feel the pain. And therefore it’s the uninvestigated thought that is the cause of the suffering experience. You know, it’s arguing with what is real. So as you live your life today and being more honest open-minded and willing to kind of walk through that, self-examination what does that look like for you in your current life?
Speaker 2 00:23:15 Yeah. Thank you for asking that. And you know, it looks, it looks like a lot of different things, but election day was a couple of days ago and we had an election here where the speaker of the house lost his election. And then there had to be an election for a new speaker of the house and the new guy that got elected, uh, speaker of the house. Um, they did a profile on him and on the front page of the local paper here. And, you know, as I reading through the paper, now, I always suspected this gentlemen was gay, but I hadn’t, I had never asked him about that or didn’t know it for a fact. Uh, and as I read through,
Speaker 1 00:23:56 Because in your circles, you inter like you, because in your political world, like you,
Speaker 2 00:24:01 Yeah. I interact with them, we’re friends. And, um, but I only interacted with him in politics. I don’t interact with him socially. So I wouldn’t know that part about him, but in the profile, um, the reporters
Speaker 1 00:24:14 Square dancing group together,
Speaker 2 00:24:22 We have reminds me of the pride parade together with our, with your back. Um, so I’m reading the profile in the, on the front page of the paper and it, and it buried matter of faculty says Joe lives in Warrick with his partner, Steven and, and period, that’s it. That’s all it’s. And I’m like, what? Number one? That’s that’s the first time I’ve seen in print that Joe has a partner, number two, they didn’t make a big deal about that. Like, like five years ago, or maybe 10 years ago, the story would have been, Joe is gay and it wasn’t even, they didn’t even say that they just said he lives in Warrick with his partner, Steve. So for me, I was like, wow, we’ve made a lot of progress. Secondly, I’ve seen, obviously Hollywood has done a really good job for us too. Right.
Speaker 2 00:25:19 There’s a lot of motion pictures that have been done, uh, there’s shows entire shows about, you know, being gay, there’s gay characters that are now just slipped into shows. Right. Um, to kind of give that perspective. I mean, that’s really, I think helped. And so as I see all these different things, and I’d love to talk about one, cause you, you have seen the movie call me by your name. And I think some of your listeners have seen it as well. And I have the book here. I saw the book a couple of weeks. I was with my mom of all people, uh, at the Barnes and noble bookstore down where she lives. And I took her over there. This book was there and I was like, she’s like, do you want to get any books? And I was like, well, actually I want, I want this one. And she never asked, she didn’t ask any questions
Speaker 1 00:26:05 That an example
Speaker 2 00:26:07 One way. Right. Another thing like before I never would have, I would’ve like ran away from that table that that book was on. And if I was with my mom, but uh, I put it right out on the counter and bought it in front of her and she didn’t ask any questions or anything about it. She made me not even know what it was, but I would’ve been, I would’ve thought she did and would have made some assumption about it, but this moves great because I love that. They just, they didn’t make a big deal about these characters being gay or about the relationship. Um, I think it’s Andre and Oliver have a, is it Andre? Andre, I think it’s on. Um, but um, I’d love to read just a little, uh, excerpt from it if that’s okay. Would that be all right? Yeah, please.
Speaker 2 00:26:49 Yeah. So basically the story is about, um, uh, this family that, that vacations every year, it goes to, uh, Italy, I think Italy every year and they have a Villa there and they always bring somebody, um, since the father is like this, um, professor and he’s like this archeologist and he, they always bring kind of a student under study to work under the father every year. And he lives with them well, and this year, the understudy ends up falling in love with the son and they, they hang out a lot together and they, they end up, you know, starting this relationship and the story, and it becomes evident to the, to the father and the mother, although it’s never spoken about in the, in the movie, um, toward the end of the movie when Oliver has to leave, Andre is in all sorts of pain, obviously, because now he’s lost, um, this friend, this new found friend, a relationship that he’s in and the person who’s back in the States and he’s still in Italy.
Speaker 2 00:27:54 And so there’s this exchange between the father and the son, which is just so beautiful that when, you know, I like cried when I started the movie and I wanted to go back and read it when I got the book. And I just thought it’d be perfect to share today. So I, I actually am going to read from the daily beast has a, has a version of this that I really like. And I’m going to read from that, uh, the speech that the father gives to the son comes just as the film is nearly over Eliel. Oh, Leo is his name, not Andre. I’m sorry about that. Helio is nursing. How did I forget that Leo is nursing his heartbreak after Oliver heads back to the U S at summer’s conclusion and his father, mr. Perlman calls him over for a conversation on the couch without making assumptions, without making Eliel feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 00:28:47 And without overstepping his bounds. Mr. Perlin tells Leo that he noticed the intense connection he had with Oliver. He doesn’t judge. In fact, he wants to make it clear that he accepts it, that he encourages it, that he may even be jealous. That Leo has been able to find someone to feel so intensely about regardless of gender, you had a beautiful friendship. Mr. Perman tells Leo maybe more than a friendship. And I envy you in my place. Most parents would hope that the whole thing goes away or pray that their sons land on their feet soon enough, mr. Perlin says, but I am not such a parent in your place. If there is pain nurse, it, if there is a flame, don’t snuff it out. Don’t be brutal with it. Withdrawal can be a terrible thing when it keeps us awake at night and watching others forget us sooner than we’d want to be forgotten is no better.
Speaker 2 00:29:40 We whipped so much of ourselves to be cured of things faster than we should, that we go bankrupt by the age of 30 and have less to offer each time we start some with someone new, but to feel nothing. So as not to feel anything, what a waste, that’s just a beautiful, beautiful scene in that film. And it, and it, and it’s something I think that we all envy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, just like he envied his son for being able to have that experience. I envy the relationship that they, that they have. I didn’t have those kinds of relationships growing up with people that I could turn to, that I could reach out to, that I could share kind of, uh, you know, the, the feelings that I was having and, and somebody who could help either validate them or process them, um, or just talk them through with. And I think, you know, for people today to have these examples, you know, in, and, and, and to, to see that on a big screen and as a, as a kid who may be going through those same feelings, right. Whether they be about self-acceptance around a sexuality or something else, um, to know that there, that they can talk about it and that they’re going to be okay as a result. I think it’s a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 00:31:06 Oh, I think, I think so, too. And the idea of telling a child, follow your heart, trust your signals, and don’t worry about the wrist. Like that is, it seems so simple. That’s not that’s, and I’m not, this is not a criticism of my, of my parents, but like, that’s not the message.
Speaker 2 00:31:39 Yeah. Mine wasn’t either, by the way.
Speaker 1 00:31:41 Yeah. It’s, it’s the message. Society gives us is tame your wild emotions and signals, keep them under check all the time. Because if you don’t, you will fail in life. Like that is the message we get. And for me, when I was unable to do that adequately, when I was unable to keep my signals, that I was feeling in check, it made me feel like crap. And that is the reason that I would have turned so easily to something that would allow me to escape. Right. It could just be alcohol, it could be sex, shopping, drugs, gambling, eating, anything.
Speaker 2 00:32:31 That’s right. That’s right. And I don’t think our parents or, or the people who love us, I do that on purpose. Right. I think they’re afraid. Like he was, um, he was afraid that his son was going to get hurt, but the irony in all of this is that you get more hurt if you don’t. So, so they, the parents think that they’re protecting us by, uh, Hey, don’t, don’t go there. Don’t do that. You’re going to be, you’re going to be sorry if you did, but the truth is no, you’re going to be sorry if you didn’t
Speaker 1 00:33:05 Right. That’s right. That’s right. I look at myself as having been emotionally stunted for 15 years, where my lack of willingness, and maybe even my lack of conscious ability at the time to explore my feelings stopped the forward progression of my emotional functioning. And when my world became overrun by compulsion’s, many of them, all of the sudden, like I felt like I was learning how to emote at the same level as someone who was a teenager, because like I had never gone there
Speaker 2 00:33:58 Cause you were emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel that way too, as a 51 year old man, um, to sit here and have these conversations and to feel like some of that uncomfortability or it that’s exactly where it brings me back to, it brings me back to my youth. It brings me back to when I was sitting in classroom and the teacher was gonna yell at me or I was going to get sent to the principal’s office or, or I was going to go home and my parents were going to yell at me. I mean, it brings me back to that kind of feeling. Um, and the cues that we were were given in the response, our response to it was to shut down, right. Not to emote during those times. Um, and to, and to also to come to comply right. To, to be like everybody else and, and work. And that’s not how humans are made.
Speaker 1 00:34:50 Yeah. Do you still have areas in your life where you struggle with finding acceptance for yourself?
Speaker 2 00:34:58 Of course. You know, one of the, so the, the big thing for me has been, I have had real difficulty in, in relationships, in the area around relationships, because I just don’t know how to be in one. I don’t, I don’t know how to seek them out. I don’t know how to be a successful person in one, I was in a, you know, a same-sex relationship for like five years with, with a guy who I am still friends with today. We haven’t dated in a long time, but I probably had five years in recovery when I met him. And I started on this journey and, you know, we, our relationship was not successful ultimately, but I learned so much and I love this, uh, this thing that gets set in 12 step meetings all the time, like relationships are character defect, magnifiers, and taking, uh, a magnifying glass and putting it in with my magnifying glass right here, taking a bag of, I put it right over your, over your character defects list because everything kind of comes out, you know, and that person sees in you and then expresses, right, because you’re, you’re supposed to be in, you know, something where you’re, you’re willing to give and take in a relationship.
Speaker 2 00:36:11 And you realize how selfish you are, how, you know, how you realize everything about yourself that might, that you might like to change. So I am grateful for that relationship for that. Um, cause it taught me a lot about myself, but I haven’t been in a successful relationship since. And, um, I noticed myself, uh, even in recovery, seeking other things out, like work, right. Becoming overwhelmed with work. Okay, I’m going to take these big jobs and I’m going to work all these hours and I’m going to basically put myself in a position where I can’t be in a relationship and I’m going to send, I’m also going to send those energy cues that you talked about earlier that, you know, like, don’t come too close to me because I don’t have, uh, I don’t have time for that. I don’t have, I’m not interested in that. Um, and, and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s been painful for me because it’s led to, you know, it’s led to acting out in other ways, sexually and other kinds of things that, um, I’m not proud of, but I, you know, but they’re part of my they’re part of my story.
Speaker 1 00:37:17 Yeah. I have found over these last three years is when the bulk of my major spiritual growth has happened. Right. And it’s led me on this path and the podcast and like my current career and all of that. And what I’ve learned is that emotions are like muscles and that in order to develop, I have to stretch them and let them heal a little bit and then stretch them and heal a little bit. And for me, um, I had a, uh, I had a pretty traumatic experience in high school and it left me with like a really significant fear of groups of straight men. Whenever there would be three or four guys walking down a sidewalk, all, you know, and enjoying each other’s friendship and laughing, like I would immediately tense up and I would feel like I was a target for them. And, uh, one of the things I did as a part of this growth was to go to sports bars by myself and stand next on game night and stand next to groups of straight guys who were screaming at the television and like, just sit there and like, it’s so uncomfortable, Tom.
Speaker 1 00:38:33 Like, it just it’s so uncomfortable, but once you’ve done it, you can look back and you have evidence that nothing happened, nothing happened. And then it loses its power, you know? And so I have body insecurities where I put myself in the most vulnerable position I can and, uh, go through it and then realize after it’s done that I’m alive, you know,
Speaker 2 00:38:56 That’s right. You’re, you’re alive. You’re a human you’re. You had an experience. You got to the other side of it.
Speaker 1 00:39:03 Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I guess as we wrap up, that’s really, I think that’s the nugget that I would, that I would want the listeners to walk away with that when something is uncomfortable, if you’re honest, open-minded and willing, you’re ready for the growth, then invite it.
Speaker 2 00:39:22 Yeah. Find a safe way to invite it. Right. So find a safe way to invite it. Um, because our instinct or, you know, our, our normal reaction right. Is to, is to retract from it and we really need to move toward it.
Speaker 1 00:39:36 Yeah, yeah. That’s right. That’s where the power is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:41 Yeah. Our, our reflexes are wrong in that, usually in that situation, uh, sometimes for safety reasons, they might be right. But if it’s safe, move toward it and find safe ways to move toward it. And, uh, and, and you’ll, and you’ll grow as a result, but that’s what this is about at the end of the day. It’s about growing personally.
Speaker 1 00:40:03 That’s right. That’s right, Tom. I’m so grateful for you to have been a part of this episode. And if your story resonates with any of the listeners, um, is there a particular email address or anything that you would be welcome to receiving correspondence?
Speaker 2 00:40:23 Yeah, sure. People can reach out to me at my name, To********@***il.com. Happy to chat with anybody who wants to reach out.
Speaker 1 00:40:37 All right. Perfect. Thank you so much. You’re welcome everybody. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please go on and give it a rating. You don’t have to type a single word, just click a button for a star rating from one to five, and it does help to improve the search results, logarithms for other people to potentially access this material. And remember, as you go through your days and you face your fears, always try to, and your light, this has been refractive. I’m Johnny G. I am a personal and career coach located in Washington, DC. I worked both in person and remotely with people who are ready to look inside, tune into their intuition, discover their purpose and live the life of their dreams. If I can be of service to you, please reach out to me on Twitter at refractive life. Find me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/refractive
Speaker 0 00:41:36 Coaching. You can visit me on my we*****@***********************************************************************ng.com. Thanks so much. And again, don’t forget. .

The key is letting go of our judgment of the present moment. Host Johnny Guidry blends personal experience, spiritual concepts, and everyone’s favorite game from The Price is Right for a deep dive into letting go of painful stories that keep us from peace.

Links to supporting materials:

Here’s the link to a HILARIOUS Youtube video of a guy winning $10000 twice. Just skip to minute 5:00 in the video. You’re welcome

Here’s the link to the Oprah SuperSoul Conversation podcast episode featuring Byron Katie

To enhance mindfulness in your life, try these guided meditations from Refractive Podcast: What’s My Purpose and Ocean Stillness

For similarly-themed content try these episodes of Refractive Podcast: From Addiction to Self-Acceptance or Who Do You Think You Are?

Visit www.refractivecoaching.com to learn more about how Johnny G helps people orient towards their best and most powerful lives. Visit www.refractivepodcast.com for more information. Additional content focused on supporting your path to authentic living is found on the Refractive YouTube page at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

Find the episode transcript below; please note that the podcast is transcribed via software, we ask that you excuse inaccuracies or misinterpretations.

Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest that

tells you to move, to speak, to love, to try. You pretend you don’t hear it calling,

or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there, ready for you and it will wait for you

as long as you need. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening

as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive. 

Hello. Hello, good evening. And welcome to

Refractive. This is Johnny G. over the past year, I’ve come to believe that protecting my serenity

is my number one job, and it falls above earning money. It falls above finding food and shelter

and relationships. Protecting my serenity unlocks the resources that allow me to step into the

flow of life and effortlessly receive all the care, the nourishment and the abundance that I need.

It allows me to be more loving and more present as a person- unlocking

the door of serenity is a foundation for accessing my birthright of magnificence. So that’s a lot to

jump right into, right? We’ve only been talking for a few seconds on the episode, but the purpose

of today’s episode is to look how surrendering to the current moment is an entry way to

accessing serenity and therefore an entryway to accessing the best possible life that exists for

me. The mythology we have often accepted as a culture is that we have to try as hard as we can

to have an amazing life. We have to overcome obstacles. And when we aren’t given what we

want, we should go out and get it for ourselves. We have to fight for glory. We have to fight for

security. We have to fight for recognition. We have to push past the pain and grab life by the

horns and forge our own future. I don’t believe that that needs to be the path forward any longer.

I can’t tell you why. I don’t know what changed, but I see a different perspective on that now. And

I see other people also adopting this different perspective and this different paradigm. It is now

the era of growing through joy. So in this mindset that I mentioned, go out and work super hard

to build the best life you can. In this Mindset. We constrict ourselves in a thousand boxes of, should we have

ideals. We have concepts that we feel beholden to, and you know, there’s nothing wrong with

achievement. In fact, by living a life of intention, by having clarity around the present moment

and being mindful and surrendering to that present moment, because surrender is the key word

of this episode, the quality of any effort I undertake improves when I am mindful, aware and

clear on what’s before me on what’s real and what’s mythology on what’s actually happening and

on what is just a story society has believed and what I have accepted as real, but is not really

real when I’m able to recognize those things I can achieve with more efficiency, it takes less

energy. I fight less and my love and my pure creative energy flow into what I’m doing in a way

that gives me better results.

So this episode, as I talk about surrendering to the moment for a greater

sense of serenity in life, this is not about letting go of achievement and creativity and effort. It’s

about letting go of the painful stories and painful beliefs that we believed were the gateway to

achievement. That’s the difference, a life of joy and beautiful experiences and achievement and

love is built of a million consecutive moments of feeling for what is most resonant right now.

Each decision that I make from the power of the present moment opens before it an entirely new

branching path of timelines. If I decide to stop recording this episode and instead to go take a

nap that changes the timeline before me and opens up an entirely new sequence of things that

become possible after that decision, there’s a new series of causes, effects, possibilities,

lessons, and adventures that open up with every single decision I make. It’s like a new river that

forms out of nothing and branches out to cover a continent with meanderings that

weren’t there before. And that river, that decision , flows without being told what to do, where to

go and how to move for us in applying this principle of flow to life, the trick is twofold. So this is

really key for this episode. The first part is to look inside, connect with my wisest self and ask

what’s right, right now, the second part is once I have that information, to love myself enough to do it surrendering to the magnificence of life is based in the acceptance of what is by way of pure unconditional love. 

My favorite teacher on this topic, her name is Byron Katie, and I’ve certainly mentioned her name once or twice in other episodes.

Um, she’s an extraordinary person. Her book called loving what is Katie says, she’s a lover of

what is, and that the only time we suffer ever is when we believe a stressful uninvestigated

thought. She says that pain is a part of life. It’s unavoidable, but suffering is different suffering is

when we believe a story that the pain is unfair wrong, or otherwise shouldn’t be happening. She

talks about the death of her mother. And, um, there’s an instance where Oprah is interviewing her and Oprah

says, do you mean you haven’t suffered since 1986? Well, haven’t you lost anyone important

to you? Oh yes. My mother died and Oprah says, but you didn’t suffer? And Katie says, no.

Oprah says, well, I just don’t understand that. You’re going to have to tell me. And what Katie

said is I sat with my mother towards the end of her life. And without my story of attachment,

without my story of it’s wrong for her to leave me it, I need her with me. I want her to be with me

instead of on her own path, which is ending without that story. I could see clearly that her path

was coming to an end. And I realized that for me to want her to stay here for my happiness was

my own selfish story. This did not come from a place of love. We say that this love, but in

reality, I didn’t want to go through the pain of separation. And therefore that is the painful story

that when someone dies, we believe it’s too soon. It’s not fair. It’s wrong. It shouldn’t be

happening. As opposed to this person’s path has come to an end. And I am so full of love for this

person. I am so glad I experienced every moment I could when we were together. And I am so

glad that this person suffering has ended, or I am so glad that this person has moved on to a

new what realm of existence. And I celebrate that person’s transition. Wow, that’s revolutionary

Oprah almost Couldn’t handle it to think that the pain of losing someone is that I don’t want to

suffer. It’s not about, I love that person because if I love that person, I want them to be on their

perfect path. And who am I to say when someone’s life is over, it’s only my

selfishness that makes me want to declare such a thing. So that’s a rather extreme example of

accepting what is, but I really strongly suggest you take a look at Byron Katie. If this concept at

all resonates with you, um, I will put a link to the Oprah SuperSoul conversation podcast episode

with Byron Katie. That is a really nice way to get introduced to her thoughts and her perspectives

on this stuff. And it’s how I first encountered her. Um, and then if that feels right, you can go to

her book, which is loving what is, which is a, uh, a really impactful tool for me and my spiritual

journey on putting down the sword to stop fighting what is real and to really, uh, sink more deeply

into the moment and letting go of painful stories.

So this is what brings me to Plinko we’re talking about the painful stories. Okay. So the way I’ve come to best explain this type of existence of surrendering to thepresent moment is through Plinko from the prices right now. If you don’t know what Plinko is, do yourself a favor and look it up on YouTube. I will put a, to a video on the show notes. I know I

have listeners from other countries, South Africa, Germany, Ireland, UK Francis reel, Spain

Ukraine. So, um, if you haven’t experienced the game show, the price is right. You may not know

what Plinko is, but it, he is one of the most popular games that is featured on this game show.

The price is right, the link I’m going to post there’s this guy. And he wins the $10,000 prize twice.

And he screeches and squeals, and it is the funniest thing.

Um, and to just watch his reaction to hitting $10,000 twice. it’s

amazing. Alright. So how does Plinko work? A person climbs to the top of a slightly slanted

board? The board’s about 10 feet high, and it’s filled with pegs at the bottom of the board. There

are a series of slots and each slot has a different prize amount ranging from zero to $10,000.

Based on earlier performance in a contest, a contestant gets a certain —

— number of disks or pucks like a hockey puck. They get to go up to the top of the Plinko board

and drop a puck one at a time. And the puck bounces through all of these pegs. It is like a

pinball machine, but far more congested. So there is no possible way to control the destination

of the puck. You could place the puck in any position at the top of the board and the puck could

travel to any slot on the bottom of the board.

So people try to be very slick and carefully pick their location, but it

really doesn’t matter. I’ve seen people go all the way to the left and cross all the way to the right, or start in the middle and stay in the middle. As the puck falls, it bounces down in a very

happy, joyful way, just like bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. And the

further down it goes, the more excited the crowd gets and the contestant gets. And,

sometimes the person get $0. Sometimes the person gets all the way up to $10,000. Each peg

offers a decision of right or left for the puck. Now, even though everybody wants to win the

$10,000, that’s in the middle of the board, the bad news is it’s surrounded by zeros on both

sides. And so the joy of the puck happening to stay in the middle is exciting because you could

get the $10,000, but there’s a greater chance of getting zero than getting $10,000.

The joy of the puck being on the far left or the far right, is that there’s no

chance of zero. You know, you’re going to win something. The people playing Plinko like, if you

watch them, they’re super excited, no matter what, because it either stays in the middle and it

could get the grand prize, or it goes to the edge. And there’s no chance of getting zero. There’s

nothing that person can do to strategize or control it. Once they have dropped the puck. But by

playing smartly, before they get to the Plinko board, they have a chance to get more pucks. And

the more pucks they’re able to drop the better, their chances of making big money. And so life is

so much like Plinko, first of all, the farther into the future that I focus, the less able I am to assure

that outcome. It doesn’t matter where I dropped the puck at the beginning because I can’t

Possibly control the right or left motions down 150 pegs. It it’s out of my control. All

I can do is earn enough pucks to drop and believe that everything’s gonna work out. Okay. So

does it mean that I’m a passive and silent partner in my life? If I’m talking about applying this

concept of, I can’t strategize far out in the future? No, that’s not what I mean. Intentionality is a

very important tool for me in my life. And it has really yielded richness for me. So I have

intentions for the direction that my life goes, but I cannot plan my experiences of three or four or

five years from now. There’s just too much that could happen. I mean, look at COVID, the lesson

is doing the best I can to gather as many pucks as I can being happy if the puck stays in the

middle, because I might get 10,000 and acknowledging my kids zero, or being happy if the puck

is in the left or the right, because then there’s no chance of getting zero feed off of the energy of

the crowd and the cheering of the host.

And remember that the worst case scenario in playing Plinko is to get

$0. You cannot lose. You. Can’t walk away with a less than what you arrived with at the bare

minimum. You’ve had an extraordinarily fun experience and a story to share with everyone for

the rest of your life. And you didn’t lose a single thing. Best case scenario. You walk away with

money. This is a beautiful, satisfying, joyful, abundant way to experience life. I wish I could say

that I always approached life the way players approach Plinko that said, I mean, how many

times have I looked at my prizes with disgust, with rage, depression, horror? How many times

have I fumed over how unfair it was that I didn’t get promoted or I didn’t get married, or I didn’t

have enough money or that I wasn’t more handsome. How many times have I actually shed real

tears around how I felt about my life?

So many that’s how many, so many the pain in my life came from a

belief that I was supposed to win the $10,000 who ever said I was going to win $10,000. I

believed it when instead I walked away with zero or 100 or 500 or 1000, I believed I was

cheated. I believed I was robbed and tricked, and that I had been taken advantage of by life. And that is painful. I walked

away from the Plinko board with $0 trudging back to the parking garage, looking at my mug that

says, I went to the price is right. And all I got was this lousy mug and feeling I got cheated

instead of recognizing what was real, what was real was I had the experience of a lifetime. I had

the experience of a lifetime and I didn’t lose a single thing. It’s the belief that what I actually have

today is wrong and unfair. That’s what hurts me. It’s not, not being able to afford a pair of Gucci

sneakers. That’s not what hurts. It’s feeling that I should have them, but can’t that hurts. And this

is a story that I have the power to pick up or put down. It is in my purview to believe that or not.

It’s about perspective. Do I feel like I was bamboozled by life or do I look

at the love, the relationships, the promotions, the birthday gifts, the people who stepped into help

me when things were hard, the beautiful apartments I’ve had. Do I look at all of that? Do I look at

the coworkers who valued me and the bosses who appreciated me and all of this that has been

poured down on my head? Do I look at that and say, this is just a mug I got as a constellation

prize, because what I really wanted look like X, Y, Z, or can I shift that perspective to say, wow,

how did I end up so lucky? And why do I believe I need X, Y, Z? What is it inside of me that feels

like I’m deficient. If I can’t have that, there was a lot of unnecessary pain that I went through for

three decades.

And it’s not until this recent period that I can let go of that. I mean, I’m

not living up on the clouds. You know, I don’t have the body that I would prefer. There are a lot of

aspects of my life that I wouldn’t pick out of a catalog, but I don’t feel cheated. I feel like what I

have received out of life is appropriate. And when I look at the causes and effects, and when I

look at my behaviors and my decisions, what I got out of life is more than fair. If I can let go of

the story, that I should have more and instead look at what’s real. I made out pretty damn good.

And that is that’s a game changer. So today through the growth, I’ll say

that I’ve gone through for the past couple of years of trying to reorient my life on a more spiritual

plane today, I do live a much more intentional life than before. I mean, literally I sit down in the

morning and draft up my intentions for the day, but I also have established boundaries. I don’t do

things that don’t feel good to me. I don’t hang out with people that don’t feel good to me. I don’t

accept a job that doesn’t feel good to me. Right. I follow my intuition, my guidance. I look at

what’s real in the moment, me.

And I say, do I believe that the universe wants me to have this or not? And if it doesn’t feel right, I don’t believe I’m supposed to have it. And I let it go. I’m certainly not

perfect in that. I mean, I, I actually did buy a lotto ticket a few weeks ago and I was annoyed

when I didn’t win anything. Um, so that’s literally the same thing as walking away from Plinko

and being upset about it, right? I mean like, um, so I don’t follow this perfectly, but what I can tell

you is that I follow this most of the time, and it has opened up a different way of life. To me that

has allowed me to start this new career as a coach, as a speaker, it’s allowed me to launch a

podcast. It’s allowed me to have adventures in 2020 that I’ll never forget. There is a real benefit

to living this way. That’s why I believe in it, I’m experiencing it. So when I catch myself in that

well worn pattern, that something is not fair that I have been given a bum hand. I know that I

have not surrendered. It’s like an alarm clock going off inside of me saying, Hey, it’s time to look

at what’s real right now because you’re living in a fantasy. And when I look at what’s real, the

painful stuff is just a troubling belief that I have accepted as real.

I slip back into that absentmindedly, uh, you know, it’s not effortless to

stay mindful, but I can’t snap out of it just by directing my attention there. So when that happens,

I look at the peg of this moment to go back to Plinko. What is my choice right now? Am I going to

fall to the left of this peg or the right of this peg? That’s the choice I have right now? What do my

guiding values? And my inner wisdom tell me to do left right left, right? And then peg after peg, after

peg fall to the right fall to the left, fall to the right fall, to the right fall, to the left decision by

decision moment, by moment, instant by instant following my North star, my values, I chart out a

course that aligns with my values. So by setting that North star and staying aware of the moment

I get the North star now is a life of surrender, boring an anticlimactic.

Well, you get to decide. I mean, no one else has any say in it, but I can

tell you that that’s not my experience doors have opened to me this year because I was quiet

enough to listen for the hinges. How do we achieve something? If we’re not drafting blueprints

for the future, right? Nobody wants to float in a foggy purgatory with no direction. And that’s not

at all. What I’m telling you. The answer is in setting clear intentions for an optimal path, values

are important here. If one of my primary values is adventure that is going to flavor the decisions I

make of turning left or right left or right peg by peg, by peg, with an ultimate understanding and

faith that the path I’m on is touched by adventure.

If achievement is one of my values, then each peg will represent a

choice left or right. That gives me a chance to lean into achievement or not. And moment by

moment, I can look back and see that by my tendency, towards my value of achievement. I have

achieved. This works with all values and combinations of values. Relationship is a value. Service

is a value family, creativity, learning. All of this is a value. Beauty is a value. And so once I set

my compass on that value with clarity and I make the decision that feels best to me in each

moment I move towards the value. Slightly wavering left, right left, right left, left, right, right left.

It’s not a straight line, but it ended up there.

And that is my experience. That’s what a life of surrendering to the

moment has offered. That’s why people hire coaches. It’s why I ended up where I am doing what

I’m doing, because I knew that my life didn’t seem oriented to my values. And I couldn’t

understand why I tried so hard to be an achiever, to be good, to contribute, to make people feel

better. I tried really hard to do all of these things. And yet I still felt like I kept ending up in the

wrong place. And the answer was that I did not listen to my values. I let other things guide my

puck from peg to peg, to peg. And while the decisions are small, you don’t notice. At first, over a

period of time, I had strayed far enough away to feel that sense of loss. And by looking more

clearly at that, I could undo some of that pathway and reoriented to where it should be.

If any of this is taking root in you right now, if it feels consonant with you,

um, I hope it’s this. There is a big difference between doing what feels right in the moment and

doing what you think will give you the best outcome in the future. This is a major point of this

episode. This might seem like nitpicking. It might feel like semantics, but I promise you. It’s not.

The good news is that no matter what you do, there is no such thing as a right or a wrong path,

right. And wrong are relative. And they are defined by you. There is no such thing as a right path

and a wrong path. Any path you pick or any path you end up on from a lack of mindfulness is

filled with love for you by the universe and endless opportunities for fulfillment. And for course,

correction, one path just happens to be in a flow.

And one path happens to require you to push a Boulder up a Hill. Both

of these paths are rich and they’re perfect in the eyes of your spirit and your soul and your

calling. They’re both perfect. All roads lead to Rome, but one flows and one pushes up Hill. It’s

up to you to choose, which is better for you right now. One path makes choices from your actual

place of power and place of greatness, which is the now one path makes choices from the

future, which is a place in which you have no power because the future is imaginary. Both paths.

Do however, have the potential to deliver to you what you want. So the path of surrendering to

the now gives you a position of power.

Is that ironic, surrendering to the now grants, you access to power. The

path of making choices from a future means you have no power. So what’s the difference. If you’re going to get where you’re supposed to go, no matter what, why on earth does it matter whether you surrender to the now or whether you draft and plan out the future? In my experience, my life is absolutely littered with things that I have achieved,

bought, earned, and won, but that once I got them, they were unfulfilling. As I directed my

attention on achieving something, the universe often gave it to me, but it’s not what I really

wanted. I got the high of achieving and that high gave me a taste of flow. And once that

momentary high was gone, I needed the next high of another achievement.

That is my experience. And I don’t know if any of you can relate to me.

Have you fought hard to get something? And once you got it, you didn’t want it anymore. I don’t

know. That’s what happened to me over and over and over again. That is not the life that I would

want for my child. If I had one that is not the life I would recommend to my adolescent self. If I

could lovingly sit with him and give him guidance, I would not want him to embark on a series of

achievements that left him feeling unfulfilled. I know what that was like.

There’s a better life than that for me. And it is knowing what feels right in

my heart and following it moment by moment and trusting that if I do that, I’ll end up in a place.

That’s great. Where’s that going to be? I don’t know. I can’t tell you, what am I going to be doing

in five years? I have no idea. I can’t tell you, but the secret is the other guy can’t tell you either.

And he thinks he knows. I’m just honest about not knowing. And I’ve made my peace because I

trust that my compass is set in the right direction.

Now I’m the first to tell you that switching to a life of surrender is an

uncomfortable move. There is well worn, comfort and soothing. And this illusion that we have our

hands on the levers of the future and the truth is we control almost nothing. We can’t control. If

the refrigerator breaks, we can’t control our children’s attitude or their tendency towards

cleanliness. We can’t control flooding in Louisiana or wildfires out West. We can’t control the

price of aspirin in a hospital or the traffic on the way to work. I can’t control the expiration date on

my yogurt or leaves falling in the yard just after I wake them up. I can’t control how many dust

bunnies are going to form under the bed, or I can’t dictate the inventory at my supermarket. I

can’t stop my friends from freaking out on Facebook. I can’t stop how people think and feel and

act today in my country.

I can’t choose who my kids want to date. I can’t choose when my

bananas are just ripe enough or which celebrities I find annoying. I can’t pick when the cherry

blossoms are going to hit peak bloom in Washington, DC, and I’ve never been able to summon a

white Christmas, but I’ve tried. I can’t stop my mother’s hands from shaking, even though it’s

hard for me to watch. And I can’t help that some of my hairs are starting to turn gray. That’s just,

what is, so what can I control? The only thing I can control is the decision that is directly in front

of me at this precise moment. This is where my power lies. And like Shakespeare said, though,

she be, but little, she is fierce.

If I know my North star, that tiny decision that I make right now in this

moment causes my life to flow with immeasurable power. This is a potential that can change

paths and it can be strangled to a trickle. The minute I, again, fall into mindlessness and

inauthentic choices. So just saying this and taking you through these concepts, I realize that it

can seem that this is a dull concept, that it is an unappetizing way to live life, but I can attest to

you that it is intensely fulfilling. I have done both ways and I have experienced in both ways

earlier this summer, as all of the world’s civilization was sheltering in place. I felt when I looked

at the present moment that I could just as easily be isolated in a rental car and in a hotel room or

a motel room or an Airbnb by myself, that I could, instead of looking at my walls and watching

TV that I could drive through landscapes that I’ve only seen in books that I could go to natural

wonders and take advantage of places with almost no visitors. I knew that I could go and stay

safe while exploring national parks and cityscapes and skylines and sunsets and mountain peaks and bridges of all types. I picked my beginning of my end point

and I chose my destinations day by day. And that blew my mind. Every vacation I have ever

planned was so tightly scheduled before. And it was so unsatisfying.

This was stepping into the flow each day. I looked at the few hundred

miles around me and checked if there was anything I might like to see. And I drove in that

direction and I made my hotel reservations. And this route that I chose, it looked just like a

Plinko board, because I went from peg to peg and each peg, do I go this way or do I go that

way? What feels right? And so I lived the adventure of the Plinko puck going through the United

States from West to East, experiencing national park after national park, after national park, after

state park, after empty city, I experienced different climate after different climate from the high

mountains to the deserts, to the flatlands of Texas. And I had this experience only because I

listened to the inside voice that said, Hey, if you don’t pay that expensive rent that you have in

DC, if you don’t renew your lease, you can use that money to do this instead. And that’s what I

did.

And that trip gave me two months of stimulation and excitement and

memories forever and adventure. In addition to that, this year, I spent two weeks, uh, in the

smoky mountains and in West Virginia, uh, that was in March. And then when I got back from

my trip, I just knew, I just, I just knew it didn’t feel right for me to stay in the city right now. And so

I said, Hey, I want to go live somewhere on water. I don’t have any money. I’m down to my last

couple thousand dollars. I bought an old car used, I paid cash. And then I had to go all the way

to remote rural Maine to be able to afford a place on water, but I did it. And as I’m here recording

this, uh, I’m looking out a picture windows at a rainbow of autumn leaves. They’re falling like

confetti.

They’re putting on the best drag show ever. I’m watching chipmunks,

dark back and forth across this enormous lot. I’m mesmerized by sunset. It’s being reflected in

10,000 tiny stars of light that are twinkling on the surface of a pond that is just outside my

window and the pond. Every morning when I come down the stairs, it looks happy to see me.

There’s my Plinko grand prize. I don’t have any money right now. And, uh, I’m, I don’t have a lot

of close intimate relationships right now, but I have an incredible life that was given to me on a

platter because I was willing to just get quiet and look inside, ask what felt right for my most wise

self, and then love myself enough to say, yes, I’ll try it. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but

I’ll do it. And the rest of the journey will be lovingly arranged and architected from a higher

perspective without my petty involvement. So my main point today, as we wrap up and the

purpose for this content is to ask you to consider what you believe around surrendering to the

present moment. Your beliefs are so valid, even if they are complete opposite from mine, follow

them, appreciate those beliefs. Love them, lean into them. They are unquestionable. Follow your

guidance as honestly as you can. My opinion is that straining for a life of uninvestigated goals is

like a wounded dog snarling at the vet. The most powerful I will ever be, and the only

circumstance in which I can Truly co-design my own universe is to still my mind go inside. Examine

what is real in this moment and lovingly without attachment, without expectation, drop the puck.

Thanks so much, guys have a great day. Be good to each other. This is Johnny G with the

refractive podcast. I am a spiritual and career coach, a speaker and facilitator. You can email

me jo****@****************ng.com. Please reach out. I’d love to hear suggestions for episode

topics or receive any questions or comments you might have. You can find me on social media

at Twitter and Instagram @refractivelife. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment

to click a star rating. You don’t have to type a single word, but every rating does help to enhance

the distribution of this podcast in the search engine algorithms. Of course, if you’d like to

subscribe to the podcast, that’s great too. Thank you so much for tuning into refractive. Have an

amazing day. Be good to each other.

Finding the courage to pivot and change careers is a key element to living our best lives. This episode features the inspiring story of Dr. Karen Barnard, who after a 30 year career in medicine leapt into the arms of her intuition and began a new calling as a personal coach. Karen talks about how to know if it’s time to switch careers; how to know what career fits your calling, your soul, and your lifestyle; some simple steps to advance towards this new life. Connect with Dr. Karen at www.drkarenbarnard.com or at ka***@************rd.com

For similarly-themed episodes, try these: Live Event: Jumpstart (or Refresh) Your Job Search or Artist Stan Piotroski: A Life that Feels Right

Visit www.refractivecoaching.com or www.refractivepodcast.com for more information on moving towards your best life. Additional uplifting content can be found on the Refractive YouTube page at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

Referenced in this episode are the following books and podcast episodes. Refractive receives no compensation or other incentive in recommending these titles.

Books:

Your Body is Your Brain by Amanda Blake

Emotional Agility by Susan David, PhD

Limitless by Laura Gassner Otting

Podcasts:

Oprah’s SuperSoul Conversations featuring Caroline Myss: Discovering Your Life’s Purpose

Apps:

Meditation Studio

Below is the transcript of this episode completed by transcription software; please pardon any inaccuracies from the software’s conversion of sound to text.

The Courage to Change Careers, Refractive Podcast

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling, or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse that it’s there ready for you. And it will wait for you as long as you. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.

Hello. Hello.
Speaker 1 00:00:42 Welcome to refractive podcast. This is Johnny G and today I am delighted to present to you a dear friend and an inspiring individual that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting lately. Dr. Karen Barnard, Karen was born in South Africa and at an early age of 15 years, she was encouraged by a school teacher to pursue a career in medicine. Karen knew that she felt driven to live a life of service of some kind, and this happened to align well with what she saw for her future. So at the age of 18 in South Africa, Karen began her training as a doctor, finished medical school and moved to the United States. At that point, she trained here as a general internist and then subsequently chose endocrinology as an area of specialization. After a 30 year career, Karen felt intuition, leading her to a change of career. She knew that she still continued to desire a life of service of some sort, and she landed on life coaching.
Speaker 1 00:01:55 She began training as a life coach in 2019. This is where I had the pleasure of meeting her and she formerly left that 30 year career in June of 2020 to pursue her new dream. So welcome, Karen. I’m so happy to have you on the refractive podcast. Hi Johnny. And thank you so much for this invitation. And I’m really looking forward to the conversation we’re going to have today. That’s right. And so I haven’t presented yet the topic for everyone, but I think this is an area of focus that many, many people are feeling a connection to. Now, I don’t know about you, Karen, but I, in my conversations with people over the past several months, I feel that this COVID pandemic and the shelter in place working from home phenomenon that we’ve experienced has led a lot of people to question what they have chosen as a life path and person after person, after person has told me that they wish they could leave their current career and start something new, even when they don’t know what that is.
Speaker 1 00:03:11 They just know that they have felt a low level consistent dissatisfaction with what is, and they are looking for something new in the future. So today’s episode is all about recognizing those internal signals we have when it’s time to shift our career path and recognizing our saboteurs thoughts, recognizing obstacles that are both real and sometimes not real. And looking at some common sense steps to rowing piece around this concept of making such a major life shift. And I know that something that you and I have both done recently, and I’d love for you to share with the listeners, your origin story, some more details or within what I’ve already discussed. And, um, let’s let everybody know why you have some experience around this to share.
Speaker 2 00:04:12 Oh, absolutely. And before I say talk about my experience, I just wanted to say, I have also heard from so many people who are really looking to making a change and just not sure how to go about it. So this is a very timely topic. So Johnny, as you mentioned, I graduated from medical school in South Africa, actually almost 31 years ago now. And I really enjoyed a productive and rewarding career as an academic internist and endocrinologist. Um, you know, I was able to see patients and I, um, degree search and I told and had administrative leadership roles as very engaged. And I thought I would be doing it for the, my whole life. And then a few years ago, I sensed that something was off that I wanted to contribute in a different way, but I just didn’t know what it would be. So I went on an exploration of sorts that led me to last year to a foundation’s coach training course where I met you, of course. And at that moment at that course, I knew that coaching would become my second act. So, um, I went from medicine, which I now think of as my first act to coaching as my second act. And so here now, September of 2020, I am retired as you mentioned. And I dedicate myself full time to my coaching business. Um, and I work with a broad range of professionals. I have a special interest in healthcare providers and I work with folks to design their careers and lives with clarity and intention and courage.
Speaker 1 00:05:56 I relate so deeply to the calling that you’ve mentioned. And I think that just based on what I’ve experienced, I think that you, Karen, with your background and your set of experiences, I just think that there’s an entire medical community that has invested so much time and love and money and energy to pursuing a life in medicine that the option of ever putting that down and moving to something else just feels like they’re disrespecting themselves. And I think the idea that you can lovingly begin your second act and integrate your first act into your second act in helping members of the medical community as they feel this sense of impending change. I think it’s very inspiring.
Speaker 2 00:06:50 Well, thank you and your exit you, right. It’s never easy to leave a career where you’ve put so much energy and society has also partly sort of helped to fund. And so, you know, there’s that, and there’s just the expertise you develop. And one just wonders where there is there anything else I can do. I only know how to do medicine. That’s what I hear a lot. Um, and, and yes, there’s a whole world out there and, and every single experience in life counts, whether you’re in medicine or whether you’re doing what ever, that really sets you up for however, you’re going to serve in the future.
Speaker 1 00:07:30 Sure. If we dive right in Karen, let’s talk about how people can discern whether what they’re feeling is a drive towards a new career, or if what they’re feeling might just be some frustration at their current job, because there’s a difference there. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 00:07:51 Yeah. This is such an important question. Uh, Johnny, and, you know, here, I like to talk a little bit about the harnessing, the wisdom of the body. You know, we tend to think that all of our knowledge and wisdom comes from above the neck now, cognitive processes. Um, but in fact, there’s this tremendous network of hormonal and your illogical signaling below the neck, coming from our gut and from our heart, from our skin, from our connective tissue. And in prioritizing above the neck data as reliable and valid, we’ve kind of turned off or we neglect this ferry finally to sense organ that we have, uh, that can really help us sort of tease apart some things of what we feeling and what might be next. And here, I love to talk about the work of Amanda Blake. Um, she wrote a book called your body is your brain.
Speaker 2 00:08:54 And she relates how we treat our bodies as vehicles to get to the next meeting or machines that could be fixed by experts. And Hey, I’ve been guilty of this too. So this really resonated with me and we have unlearned in this busy, distracted world to pay attention to what’s really going on inside Johnny, if I may, I just want to say how it relates to how I ignored my own senses. Here was I started a few years ago, really feeling a lot of fatigue, you know, not just the usual, Oh, at the end of the day, I’m tired or they’ve really wasn’t fixed by going on vacation or having a weekend. It was just this low grade fatigue, which was very unusual for me. The other thing that started happening is that my migraines started increasing in severity, both in frequency and in intensity, it was like, my body was just, I hadn’t listened.
Speaker 2 00:09:51 I hadn’t listened to study. My body was saying, Oh, okay, stop. And literally it stopped me in my tracks. And I was like, okay, something is going on here. The other piece to this. So, you know, there is the signals we get from our body about how we feel with where we’re at. Then there’s also our emotional state and really listening to our emotions is, is critically important. And here, I like to draw on the work from Susan Davis. Who’s actually also a South African she’s a psychologist at Harvard medical school. And she wrote a book called emotional agility. And she asks the question, what are your emotions signaling to you? Notice them become curious, um, and look at them as data. Um, but they’re not directed. It doesn’t mean you follow everything, but you pay attention. And so for me, the emotion was that I left Infusio autism.
Speaker 2 00:10:57 Like I was always this take on any project. I look for this, go for promotion, like really go home. And I started withdrawing, like my enthusiasm chest was rock bottom, which was, again, something was signaling there’s Euston. We have a problem. Similarly, you know, there’s a challenging emotions. We need to listen to this also, you know, Johnny, that first course that we did together with coaching, like the way I felt, even though I wasn’t coaching very well, just the space of ease and the happiness and the excitement that I felt in that space that was now looking back, that was posts saying, pay attention. This might be the way forward.
Speaker 1 00:11:46 The idea that you had these symptoms, migraines that coincided with your lack of enthusiasm. I think this is fascinating. How did you come to the conclusion that they were related and that this pointed to a different career?
Speaker 2 00:12:05 I wished I could tell you that I was mindful of it. And I, and I recognize that as it was happening. And I said, I didn’t do any of that. It really kind of knocked me over the head in a way, like the universe was talking to me and I wasn’t listening.
Speaker 1 00:12:20 So it took me a while to
Speaker 2 00:12:23 Put the pieces together. Um, and, and, you know, once I got sort of the pole to, to go into coaching, now that I’m there, I can look back and my migraines, I haven’t had a migraine in eight, eight and a half months.
Speaker 1 00:12:43 Okay. Which is a very interesting coincidence of timeline.
Speaker 2 00:12:48 Like not one, um, my energy level is completely the way it was before. I mean, I, there are days I get tired, but like normal, I have high energy end. Yeah. Mine’s easy as hasn’t for what I do the love of what I do. And so, yes, I think it was, um, really in it sort of really being taken to a standstill and saying, why am I not functioning so well? And then after the change of looking back and going, okay, wow.
Speaker 1 00:13:20 So, you know, I talked to my clients and I say that it is possible to have a career that energizes you. It doesn’t mean that you don’t have exhausting days, but there it is possible to go to work every day and feel vibrant and to feel excited. There are so many people who come home from work every day, who know that 10 years ago, they were very passionate about what they were doing, but they know that every day they come home and they feel just a little bit dead inside, they feel a little bit, they just feel drained. They’re exhausted. I think that that’s a really unfortunate way to go through life. And so what I hear you saying, Karen, is that if you are feeling this consistent drainage of your energy, of your passion, it’s assigned to look inside and at least start asking questions where it comes from and nothing is off the table.
Speaker 2 00:14:19 Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And I think a key word there is the consistency with which this feeling shows up. We all have a bad day here and there, or even a bad week, or, you know, but it’s really the question of it’s persistent. It was for me. And I waited maybe even longer than I could add it, but I waited a few years before I really acted on this. The other thing I just want to mention is so that the shirts that come up like, Oh, I should, you know, this is an incredible, I have, I’ve spent, I should be feeling happy. I should be engaged in everybody else. They’re loving it. What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I, and those sorts of shirts, just to look at that and say, what am I really telling myself? That’s really a critical piece to this.
Speaker 1 00:15:12 I agree with that. I think that there is, um, there are very few situations where should, is in loving term. You know, I really do. So let’s say we have been experiencing this consistent at best boredom and at worst, a sense of being drained every day from our vital forces. How do you know if it is time to look at an entire new career or if it’s just where you’re working every day,
Speaker 2 00:15:49 Kara, the things that I work with with my clients and that I did for myself as well. And one of the first things is really reconnecting with our life purpose. Um, what we think we’re here to do, and also reconnecting with your values or your principles in life, ask yourself what really matters to me. What do I want to be in the world? What kind of contribution do I want to make is contribution even important to me, maybe what’s important to me is caring for and providing for my family and my current job that may not be great, but it brings in the money for me to honor the value of providing for my family, or it might be significance in my job. I might, you know, I’m a leader and I’ve had a significant role. That’s important to me. That’s a high value and look at what makes you come alive and explore that sun and see where in your life are you honoring those values that are important and where maybe have you neglected them or stepped over them.
Speaker 2 00:16:59 Cause Johnny really, when we live in alignment with our values and our core principles, our life just flows. And that’s my experience. One of the things that I realized, I always thought values were kind of set in stone. You know, you have a set of values and they stick with you. And to certain extent, that’s true. And, but I’d like to think about it a little differently that certain values take a higher priority at different times in our lives. So for example, for me, the value of geographic freedom and the, I came to the us from South Africa. I love traveling, but there was a value of mine, but it wasn’t a top value. And then in the last few years, we wanting to spend more time with my, with my aging parents. And now my dad, my brother, suddenly that value of geographic freedom became really important to me. And, and that’s where, when I looked at life coaching that checked a box that, uh, you know, being a physician needing to be in one place did not meet. Yeah. I’ll just, I’d like to hear your, um, your take on the role of the values and life purpose in helping to directly,
Speaker 1 00:18:23 You know, when I was a kid and people ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up for a long time, my answer was I wanted to be in paranormal fields.
Speaker 2 00:18:36 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:18:42 Yeah. Going back further. I wanted to be the president. I wanted to be an actor. You know, and these are ways of living that as a child, they connected with my primary drivers, they looked fun. They looked interesting. And as I grew up, I ended up in human resources and listen, human resources is a great job. As far as most jobs go, HR is a good deal, okay. Is a good job. But it did not connect with my primary drivers. And every day at work, I felt an intrinsic desire to not do HR. And so to get through it, I changed jobs every two years because at least when you change jobs, you’re overwhelmed by the newness and the learning and that is stimulating. And so as I look back, I can see, I worked for a hotel company where I could easily transfer.
Speaker 1 00:19:52 And every time I transferred into a new role, it got me through for like a year and a half. And then I started to get back into the doldrums and I needed to move again because I did not enjoy what I was doing. And so what I would tell my clients and the listeners is go back to the ideas you had as a child. Maybe today, I’m not going to be a paranormal list. Okay. But what was the, what was the reasoning behind that? Because the reasoning behind your childhood fantasies is a deep connection to your psyche. As a child, we are not constrained by this realism that we’re forced to live in as adults. And so there’s real fertile soil there for understanding what makes you tick, what connects with your heart and what feels good. And if you can align your career with something that feels good inside your heart, you have a life that is energizing, not draining. That’s my thought.
Speaker 2 00:20:55 I so love that story of the, you know, going back to the, to your childhood. Cause you’re absolutely right. That when we children, we don’t have all of these things, societal pressures and expectations, and we’re so much more in tune with that sort of a regional wisdom. That’s excited about.
Speaker 1 00:21:14 You know, I think it goes back to the familiar old saying to thine own self, be true. I think it’s important to acknowledge what makes you tick and you know what, like you said, Karen, maybe today I have a young child and I can’t leave my stable career to go chase a dream today. Maybe that would be harmful to my family, but I can lay down a plan. Okay. I can lay down a plan. I can give myself the love of following my gut guidance to say, I can make this work in a five year plan or a 10 year plan. It’s okay to plan a career change 10 years from now, there are literally no rules. You set the rules, you set the parameters. And if you are being true to yourself, if you know your insides and you’re being true to yourself, you are going to find peace in your daily life, but it takes the courage and the willingness to say, what is true and what is not true, but that I accept as true.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 Is it true that I need to make $125,000 a year as a minimum salary? Is that true? It may be important, but is it, is it a real rule that I’m holding myself to, or is it something that I had accepted based on my imagination that is more aligned with society than what is aligned with what my insides are telling me. And if you can grow peace around your inner truth, your values, your driving principles and your real needs for love your real needs, not your society pressure needs, but your real needs, all of the sudden doors open in your imagination that you have forcefully kept shut to yourself for decades. And that is the key that when I work with my clients, that’s the key to unlocking your peace and your happiness, stop holding your own cage shut because of a set of limiting ideas that you’ve been spoonfed. And you’ve accepted as fact because you get to choose, you decide you make the rules and is not a single person who can hold you back. If you don’t agree to be held back. That’s, that’s my, that’s my feelings around it, you know?
Speaker 2 00:23:57 Oh, absolutely. And I love how passionate you are about that because we all need to hear what you just said in the way that you said, and you showed such fierce courage as you spoke. And that’s what it takes. It just takes a lot of fear, courage, which you just exhibited lovely to see.
Speaker 1 00:24:20 So one of the most formative elements, and it sounds silly to say this, but it’s why I got into podcasting. Okay. So one of the most formative elements of my recent life change has been Oprah’s super soul conversation. So this was a television show on the, on the own network, but it’s also available in podcast format of just the audio. And I listened to most of those episodes because on every episode there is a different person. You might consider a thought leader on some sort of heart or spirit based concept. And there was one episode featuring I think there’s actually two episodes featuring a lady named Caroline Myss. And she, uh, she responded, uh, to a question that Oprah gave and she said something like, well, no, you’re always either moving towards fear or you’re moving towards love. You can’t move towards both at the same time.
Speaker 1 00:25:22 Go ahead and think about it. Try to give me an example. It is not true to accept both fear and love. And this has been a really important concept for me in my growth. It’s unlocked something inside of me. And as I look, what does fear mean? And what does love mean? Fear is any one of a hundred forms of limiting messages? I can’t, I shouldn’t, it won’t be acceptable. That’s not loving. I can’t do that to my family. I can’t do this to myself. I can’t survive on $60,000. I can’t, I can’t, I shouldn’t, I won’t write fear says if I do this, I’m going to fail. Whereas love says, I’m willing to look inside and discern and discernment is really key. Discernment is the idea of putting your thoughts and your feelings through a test. Does this make sense? Does it feel right when I weigh it against reality? Does it still stand? If it doesn’t, maybe I’ll put it away for now, but discerning whether my path I’m on, am I doing HR because of love? I could be, I could love my child so much. I’m willing to do HR. Okay. That could be a love-based decision. Or am I doing HR? Because I don’t think I’m qualified to do anything else. And I, I’m not willing to drop my salary by half to start over that’s fear.
Speaker 2 00:26:59 Oh yeah. Fear will show up predictable hundred percent whenever we want to make a change. And it’s, it’s a very instinctive reaction. And in fact, part of the fear is there to protect that that fear has come along with us and has kept us out of trouble, helped us to survive, helped us in the community, a stain out community and not get kicked out of the tribe. But that fear doesn’t realize that we’ve actually evolved and we’re no longer, you know, creatures roaming around, maybe needing a lot more help from fear. We now have this amazing prefrontal cortex that helps us in our decision making. And if we have weighed the options, fears, not going to go away, it’s going to keep staying there. So are you sure? You sure. You sure. And you know, you can say, thank you for your, I see you.
Speaker 2 00:28:00 And yes, I have done the math. I have discussed. I’ve listened to my body it’s time. And you know, Johnny, Chadwick Bozeman who really left us way too soon was he was an enlightened being. And he said, fearlessness means taking the first step. Even if you don’t know where it will take you. And it gets to that piece of that’s where the courage is. Courage is not that there isn’t fear fears going to be there. It’s going to just get used to it, recognize your fear, recognize its messages. And they’d say, I got this and I’m going to move forward despite of it. And that’s, to me, the definition of courage.
Speaker 1 00:28:44 And so this leads us into, into our next topic, which are the obstacles around making such a shift in life. And I mentioned in the intro, some of these obstacles are very real and a lot of the obstacles have been put there by ourselves and they are as real as we grant them to be. You know? So I’d love to hear your perspective on facing these obstacles when we consider changing our life to following more of our vocation or our guided career, rather than where we happen to have ended up to date.
Speaker 2 00:29:28 Yeah. So these, um, and I love this topic because it’s something I’ve been thinking about and writing about, um, for quite some time now, and that’s, you know, inner voices that it was perceived obstacles that either we make up or we think other people are saying that it’s really these thoughts and voices in our heads. And I call them saboteurs. Um, people have different names, but there’s, you know, there’s a judge separator there’s, um, there’s an avoidance separator. My favorite is you’re not good enough separator being able to recognize them as sort of a little bit like fear where they, there is, there’s a smidgen of truth often to what they’re saying. There’s like a little bit of truth. Um, and we get hooked and he say, see, you can’t do it. So for me, you’re too old. Like, what do you want to go changing careers age of 52?
Speaker 2 00:30:31 And then I really started looking at that. I’m too old and I’m looking around me and people of 80 are writing books for the first time. I actually just read last week. Cause that the, um, the average age of a successful startup founder, Johnny is 45. There you go. So with that new data, I just made a decision to say, no, I’m not going to, I’m choosing not to listen to that voice. Um, and then, you know, the fact that our identities are so wrapped up in career and education and income, we should have all the voices around that. You know, you’re going to next others down. And I heard this, how will you manage financially? This is what about retirement? And so of course I had to look into that, but at the end of the day, I had to really wait these voices and say, okay, we should look at is true.
Speaker 2 00:31:26 And can I overcome that now, maybe with the age thing, Johnny, if I was 75, I, I may not embark on a new career coaching. I didn’t know I made, but maybe that’s not something I’d want to do at the end, but certainly at 52. Oh yeah, I’m going for this. Um, and so something that helped me tease through the voices was looking at what other people have done. And if another human being of more or less, my age had done what I want to do, it’s possible. And therefore I can just end of story. I’m not talking about probability. That’s a different thing. I don’t have control of the way that this is going to work out. I still don’t know whether, you know, we don’t know how life’s going to roll, but I know what I want. And then just connecting with why, why do I want to make this change?
Speaker 2 00:32:18 What’s important about this also helps with sort of those, those blockages and sort of things that come up as we’re thinking about making the change. Yes. Um, I, I do want to say something about the financial income piece because it’s something I hear a lot and I think it’s real, especially now during Covid. I mean, we have folks who have student loans, they have mortgages, they might be the primary breadwinner and sort of totally eating a career might just not be feasible. But I want to just link back to something you said earlier is really looking at that with honesty. For many of us is a little bit like anxiety provoking and so have brutal honesty about your bank statements and where you spend get a financial advisor. If you need to look and to help you to fill up your budget for that future, that might be, you know, three or five years when you,
Speaker 1 00:33:24 You can make the change. Yes, absolutely. It’s about those little, those little steps when it comes time to set a plan down, if you, uh, if our listeners have come to a point where they’re ready to really examine our career shift, and they know that this is not something that’s going to happen today, I’m not going to submit my resignation today. Uh, but this is something that I can do in the midterm. What are some recommendations you might have for planning this type of life change
Speaker 2 00:33:58 In the beginning, embracing not knowing. So if you are ready to make a change and you’re beginning to explore some options, it really takes time to find the right place to make the best decision for you. And it’s, it’s a journey. So I’ll start off with that, just to sort of take some of the pressure off, um, just to understand that it’s going to take time. I also what’s really worked, still works for me. And what I really recommend is that people that we continue to connect to a wisdom that inner wisdom and taking a break from the distractions and the noise of the world and finding some stillness. Um, this can take on a variety of forms. And th the, really the reason for the stillness Johnny is that when our intuition or our inner knowing speaks or touches us with a gut feel, or gives us a heart flatter, or a sensation of tingling, it’s different for different people.
Speaker 2 00:35:13 How are you gonna get that sort of nudge of intuition of where to go next? It’s really soft. It’s very, it’s sometimes it’s subtle. And of course, by my story, I kind of missed it along the way until it really hit me over the head, but in the stillness, we can really hear it. It could be anything from going into the days at, for a week, going on a sonnet meditation to standing in the shower, just being in the present moment, feeling the water, running over your body, feel how you’re standing and begin to just tune in to what’s happening in your body as you’re showering, that sort of thing. And it takes practice. You know, we’re just for people who haven’t done this just start small, like five minutes here and there that you can grab some moment just to be with yourself, actually, a client of mine Who’s a runner. She finds that when she really wants an answer to what’s next or how she should do something, she goes for a walk through nature and it’s like, she can just relax and you could meditate. The other thing that helps several people is actually journaling, um, something called, uh, we call it automatic writing and it’s worth a try. And it’s really asked yourself a question. So it might be something like, where should I submit my resume, or what industry should I look at? And just start writing and set a timer for 15 minutes and don’t pick up the pen, just write, even if you’re writing mumble jumble, it doesn’t matter. Just write and see what it is you’ve written because through that automatic writing, you’re sort of bypassing some of the, the cognitive aspects that might block that from coming through. Um, a couple of other interesting things are things like, where are you? What we’re doing is we’re activating the parasympathetic or the thriving nervous system, which really to get out of that sort of hijack stress system and even stroking an animal. Like if you’ve got a cat or a dog and you just sit for a few minutes and just feel the stroke of the hand, that immediately actually calms the animal, and then also calms you. And, you know, you can just sit with, and that’s often when our best ideas come is when we’re not thinking about them. So those are some ideas. I would also encourage of people, and this is what I needed to do. So that’s why I’m bringing it up is I was really only my head. I was, where am I? I had a list. I had done some research. I was on the web. I had strengths, weaknesses. I had all of this stuff in my head and I got a coach and she actually, one of the first session, she said, you know, you’ve done so much external research and you have some ideas, but how about we just go inside and see what your inner wisdom is to say. So getting a coach or any objective trained listener who doesn’t have an agenda for you as a great way, also to begin to work through some of the things and the next steps you need to take.
Speaker 1 00:38:45 You know, one of the tenants of my coaching is you already know you already are. The answer is in the stillness. I truly believe, and not everybody may believe this and that’s okay. But I believe for myself, for my life, that every bit of knowledge and knowing this, which is like a word that I use a lot knowingness, every bit of knowingness that I need is already inside of me. If I’m willing to do the work, to go inside and seek it. Um, because I believe that I was given all of the tools I need to live my best life. The same way a puppy is given all the tools. It needs to live its best life. And that means when it’s time to play, I go inside. Is it time to play yet? It’s time to play. When it’s time to sleep, I go inside. It’s time to sleep. I don’t need to fight and litigate this. If it’s time to sleep, I need to sleep. It’s time to eat. I need to eat. If it’s time to work, I need to work. And surrendering to the wisdom inside is really the key to serenity. It’s when we either believe that our inner wisdom is wrong, or when we choose to disobey our inner wisdom, that we begin to feel pain and dissatisfaction. So I think, uh, I think that dovetails nicely with some of, some of your recommendations there. I’m sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:40:26 No, I was just going to make it to say really that I, so second you are and when to emphasize your point, that it’s all inside and we have everything we need to help us make these decisions. We just need to tune in.
Speaker 1 00:40:45 I started meditating rather recently, and I just, I just, I felt like I could never do it. I felt like every time I sat down to meditate, my mind just went crazy. And all of a sudden I was making grocery lists and I was like imagining conversations I needed to have. And it was very frustrating for me. And so a way that worked for me was I downloaded a meditation app called meditation studio. And they had guided meditations ranging from two minutes to 45 minutes and on all types of different topics. And they were so helpful to me because they trained me there. There were a lot of meditations where I did where it was five minutes and I just couldn’t do anymore. And then there came a where I didn’t want to do a guided meditation. I wanted to sit in silence and I did. And I learned I could. And so for me, it was a gradual process to go inside. And like you said, not everybody needs to, to meditate. There are other ways to go into the stillness. You know, I think journaling is great. I think, you know, speaking with a trusted person and I think your comment on no agenda, I think that’s really important. Cause sometimes our family has an agenda for us.
Speaker 2 00:42:03 Yeah. And it’s, it’s really true that start with, with what works for you so that you can begin to trust what you’re hearing and your interpretation because interpretation often is where we, where we can get caught a little bit. So whatever you feel drawn to, whether it’s the walk or the journal or guided meditation, whatever it is, just start somewhere. And as you begin to listen, you’ll begin to learn how your body speaks to you. And that can then bold your confidence in your own, in your own, knowing it. Cause it took me a long time to actually feel confident. And I still sometimes have, is this a nudge or is this a set of terms speaking? So kind of it just takes time. But the important thing is just to start somewhere because it is ultimately so incredibly valuable.
Speaker 1 00:43:04 That’s right. That’s right. Is this, is this inner voice I’m hearing a voice of love of some way, or is it a voice of fear of some way? Can I discern between the two? You mentioned Amanda Blake’s book, your body is your brain. And you mentioned Susan David’s book, emotional agility. As we come to the end of the podcast, I want to mention one more book and I’ll, I’ll put information on all of this in the show notes for anyone who accesses the podcast page. There’s a book that was recommended to me by my friend, Nick. He sent me an audio book and it was called Limitless: How to ignore everybody, carve your own path and live your best life. And the author is named Laura Gassner Otting. And I really recommend this book for anyone who is considering a life change based on your vocation, your calling your career.
Speaker 1 00:44:04 And what she says is your life feels best when you find consonance consonance, when you resonate with what you’re doing and she divides it very conveniently into four CS, your calling, your connection, your contribution and your control. And she says that if you can identify, what is your calling? Like you said earlier, what is your purpose in your life, your connection, how connected do you feel to what you’re doing your contribution, right? Do you need to drive the entire strategy of an organization? Do you need to get your hands dirty on the front lines to feel like you’re contributing? Uh, how is it that you want to contribute and leave your legacy and then control? How much control do you need over your careers? Do you need to telework? Do you need to manage your commute or is that not a primary driver for you?
Speaker 1 00:45:11 Um, you know, how much autonomy do you, do you need to feel happy or do you prefer to leave the big decision making to someone else in your career, in your job? So this is a really strong book. Like I said, I will definitely put the name of it in the show notes, and I want to recommend it to our team of listeners here. Karen, as we come down to the final words of the episode, I want to kind of leave on a high note. I think this is a powerful statement. I’d love to hear your guidance for the listeners on this. When your inner champion speaks, believe it. What is that about?
Speaker 2 00:45:53 Yeah. It’s, it’s about the courage to trust. You have everything you need to move to the next step to live a fulfilled life within you. And as we’ve said, it takes some practice and you might need some help, the risk if you don’t believe and you don’t go, it’s staying in the same place and maybe you don’t.
Speaker 1 00:46:22 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:46:23 It’s an incredibly powerful statement. And you know, I would say, I’ll say that, you know, change is scary. It takes courage, but ultimately it can be very spacious and,
Speaker 1 00:46:38 Yeah, that’s right. Thank you, Karen. I am so happy that you joined us today and that you shared your wisdom and experience with the refractive listeners. I’ll go ahead and wrap.
Speaker 2 00:46:51 Thank you, Johnny. And I so enjoyed chatting with you, learning from you and, uh, it was, it was really a pleasure to be here. Thank you
Speaker 1 00:47:00 Very much. Absolutely. And Karen, can you please let everyone know where the listeners can find you if they have questions about your coaching or if they want to read this blog that uh, that you have?
Speaker 2 00:47:14 Yes. So my website is, uh, dr. Karen barnard.com, which is dr. K a R E N V a R N a R d.com. And if you, you can access the blog from the menu. And if you like, you can
Speaker 1 00:47:30 Subscribe to the weaken use letter. Funny, my email is Karen at dr. Karen barnard.com and I welcome any inquiries or comments or questions about this or coaching with me. Please feel free to contact me any time. Thank you so much. All right, Karen, thank you. This is Johnny G and you’ve been listening to the refractive podcast. I am a personal career and spiritual coach in Washington, DC. You can find me refractivecoaching.com. You can email me at jo****@****************ng.com. That’s Johnny with a Y. And I work in person and remotely with people who feel they are ready to take some fresh new steps towards a life that feels energizing and good. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please go ahead and click subscribe. And I also ask that we’re ever, you listened to your podcast. Please leave a rating. You don’t have to type a single word just by clicking a star rating. You help to enhance the distribution of this material to other people that you think might benefit from the messages. Thank you so much for tuning in today and never forget, be good to each other and aim your life every day.

Executive Coach and legendary mom Randi Braun, founder of Something Major (somethingmajorcoaching.com) shares wisdom, experience, and solid research on the value of investing time in self-care. She recommends micro-moments of peace and adding small, simple rituals to even the most hectic of days in order to be the best parent, employee, employer, friend, and self. This episode is uplifting, has plenty of laughter and energy, and encourages all listeners, parents or not, that consistent small acts of self-kindness are the key to living our best lives. Pro tip: click here to check out Something Major’s Insights page for tons of well-thought-out, well-written, uplifting, and encouraging content focused on women who are owning their legacies.If you’re looking for other episodes about living an invigorating life, try Owning the Turbulence and Unlocking Joy.

For more information visit RefractiveCoaching.com.

Additional uplifting content is found on the Refractive YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

Episode transcript for Self-Care for Parents follows below; please note transcripts are created via software and there are slight variations between verbal and written content. Visit refractivecoaching.com and refractivepodcast.com for more material.

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Ever since you can remember, you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try day after day. You pretend you don’t hear calling, or maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there ready for you. As long as you. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our lives. This is refractive. Hello. Hello. Welcome through refractive podcast. This is Johnny G. And on today’s episode, I’ll introduce you to a force of nature and a fellow coach speaker, and a facilitator. Her name is Randi Braun. I love Randi. I keep her close to my orbit because she inspires me to own my power as a coach. And she has channeled her own strength into lifting up women who are ready to own their best lives.
Speaker 0 00:01:03 However, that takes form. Randi is here with us today to discuss the topic that is especially valid in the age of COVID-19. And one that I hope will resonate deeply with all of you, whether or not you have kids self care for parents. Now, Randi has never found it difficult to speak with strangers. And that is what led her path eventually to becoming a coach just like me. Now Randi’s coaching focuses on empowering them and helping them hit their stride, live their absolute best life. She’s the founder of something major coaching. You can find th**@********************ng.com and I am so excited to welcome her today. Hi, Randi. Welcome to refractive.
Speaker 1 00:01:51 Hi Johnny. Thank you so much for having me on
Speaker 0 00:01:55 It is a delight. And ever since I started recording podcast episodes, I knew that you were one of the people that I wanted to have on because you have an, how would I say you have an energy about you that makes people feel good. And I want my listeners to feel good when they absorb an episode of this. So I’m delighted that you said yes
Speaker 1 00:02:19 And I’m delighted to be here. I always love chatting with you and I’m excited to see what happens when we hit the record button on one of these conversations.
Speaker 0 00:02:27 Well, I hope I’ve already hit the record button. I’ll find out soon if that’s not the case. So, uh, Randi, why don’t you take us into your background and your origin story? I know that this is a topic that is near and dear to your heart, and I’d love for the listeners to understand more about that.
Speaker 1 00:02:46 Well, Johnny, thank you again for having me and like so many other coaches, I never dreamed of being a coach. In fact, I described myself as the accidental coach and the reluctant entrepreneur. You mentioned in the intro that I’ve always had a pension for talking to strangers and originally worked in fundraising and sales, kind of my first professional love. And what happened in my sales career was that I had my two kids in two years and six days, which is a little crazy. And I just got it. Our listeners can’t see it, but your eyebrows just literally went.
Speaker 1 00:03:23 That is the correct answer, by the way, just so you know, that is the correct reaction. And what happened was in those two years in six days, I doubled my compensation in terms of my salary and my earnings. And because like you, I live in Washington D C word got around quickly and our very, very small little town, I was sitting on panels and people were connecting you with their friends. And I discovered two things really, really quickly. And all of these informational interviews, number one, people weren’t interested in my story. They were interested in going after their own big goal. And number two, I was so much more interested in what they had to say then telling my old story again, that’s how I fell in love with coaching and what coaching could be. It wasn’t always a dream as a working parent. At the time I had two kids under three, I was working as the director of enterprise sales at a tech startup and coaching at 7:00 AM and 8:00 PM.
Speaker 1 00:04:21 And that’s why this topic is so important to me because by the time I made the decision to go to coaching full time, I was truly on the cost of burnout and I never ever want any other parent to feel like that for me. And we’ll talk more about this later on the pod, it was really simple. It was about living a life where I’m prioritizing joy instead of living a life where I was mitigating stress. And that’s what led me to taking something major full time. And I could not be more thrilled to be here with you and talking about some of the works that I do with amazing working mothers every single day.
Speaker 0 00:04:57 Yeah, absolutely. Well, we have some good stuff today because I can’t not mention the fact that we’re in the middle of COVID-19. I mean, this is a dominant factor in the lives of everybody all around the world. And, uh, I am not a parent, but I can’t even imagine what it would be like to all of the sudden have my routine altered where I don’t leave the house anymore and have the routine that my children can’t leave the house either. I mean, how do you breathe
Speaker 1 00:05:35 One breath at a time? I just actually took a nice exhale. As you were saying that, you know, this is been life altering for everybody, for parents. It it’s just like someone took the rug right out from under them. And in a pre coronavirus world, one where daycares and schools were open, the research center had already reported that 56% of all working parents in America, describe it as challenging to make it all work, balancing family and home. That’s with childcare, with all of the arrangements that so many parents like the clients, I work with pain, staking only architected to build the life that they wanted to leave to live their professional lives and make sure their children have everything they needed when just like everyone else. The rug came out from under us. Parents were not prepared. Our system was fragile to support them in the first place. And truly in this moment, I believe in my heart of hearts that working parents are in crisis. And it’s incumbent upon all of us as coaches, as corporate leaders, as stewards of our organizations to show up support the great talent that we have and fight for it before we have an attrition crisis in our economy.
Speaker 0 00:06:50 Yeah, absolutely. That rings true to me as a former member of the HR crew, I can really see where you’re going with that. I know that you’ve done quite a bit of research on this topic because it’s something that your clients are obviously very interested in. Um, so would you like to kick us off with some of those factoids that you have uncovered for the benefit of all of us?
Speaker 1 00:07:17 Yeah, absolutely. We’ll talk a little bit Johnny about COVID and then what’s so important about this conversation is we can’t just let it be about Kobe. Taking care of ourselves is such, it’s the definition of evergreen. You know, we can’t serve others if we’re not serving ourselves. And I know we’ll get deeper into that, but the economy we’re recording this in the middle of what most parents feel like is a stretch to sin quarantine summer. And it’s no wonder they feel stretched in when nearly a third of the American workforce has children and those children have very, very limited care. And so I just want to say to any of the parents listening, if this feels like it’s been the hardest time of your life, if every single day feels like a struggle, you’re not doing it wrong. My system was not designed like this, right.
Speaker 0 00:08:06 But it’s supposed to feel like right now
Speaker 1 00:08:09 And you know, my husband, Johnny, I’m married to an amazing partner and my husband and I hand to heart every night before we go to bed, we have some version of this conversation. I can’t believe today happened one day. It’s going to be a part of the story he used to live to fight another day. And I know that so many working parents feel that way. And that’s something I want to share with the listeners too, Johnny, sometimes I think, you know, I don’t know if you got this, but sometimes they think just because you and I are coaches, people think that our life is, is perfect. I will say, I feel like, I don’t know if you agree. I have some tips, tricks and life hacks up my sleeve for sure that I’m able to channel on demand. But my life’s just as hard as any working parents.
Speaker 1 00:08:51 There’s some great research out of Harvard business school from a professor named dr. Willens, who studies, how high performing people use their time and what she discovered studying call center employees of all people was that the call center employees, people whose job is literally measured in how they use time. Those who took a 30 to 60 second break in between pickups in between calls those little micro moments of self care actually had a macro impact on how successful they were, how fulfilled they were in their job and their customer satisfaction ratings. And so the big takeaway, I know it’s incredible, right? The big takeaway from this Harvard study is that just 30 to 60 seconds to ourselves can pay a macro dividend in how we feel about our jobs and our streets.
Speaker 0 00:09:45 And, you know, Randi, we know this inside, we know this as human beings. We know what we need, but we have so many influences around us pressures and needs and fears that make us go, go, go, go, go. So this is such important information to process.
Speaker 1 00:10:06 And like you said, Johnny, it’s not rocket science, but I love about the Harvard business school research is that it’s from Harvard business school. So you say that, you know, I specialize in working with people who work in high performance, high volume, high predicted high unpredictability environments. And as soon as I say, Harvard business school, all of a sudden, right, it’s vetted all of a sudden as this is important. Um, and I’m one of those people, right? I mean, I’m, you know, this research for me really made me rethink that this is not anecdotal and it’s certainly some great quantitative findings, but you know, it’s just not rocket science. There is a reason why we get our best ideas when we’re in the shower, when we’re waiting for the coffee maker to kick on in the morning, we’re walking the dog last thing at night, we need time to process. We need time to be creative. And when we give ourselves that space, oftentimes we discover our super power is in our ability to speed up our ability to cultivate space, to do our best work. And that’s something that I try and hold myself to every day.
Speaker 0 00:11:13 So what do you recommend, uh, what are some good jumping off points for these people who feel so stretched and are willing to give it a shot? Let me take 30 or 60 seconds at a time for myself.
Speaker 1 00:11:24 Yeah. I think it’s really understanding what’s meaningful for you in those 30 to 60 seconds. You know, there’s four pillars of self care, which we can talk more about, but just the simplest things, you know, I have one client who to demarcate when her parenting time ends and her work time begins. It’s counterintuitive. And COVID because our work is our office and our off a part of me, our home is our office and our offices are actually step outside, listen to one song and her come back in, right? I mean, I guess that’s three minutes, not 30 seconds for me. Anytime I can get outside and get fresh air. I do a lot with music. I also do a lot in my own home right now where I can’t get out, but I want to play with space. I’ll just go somewhere else and just close the door.
Speaker 1 00:12:13 Like so many parents who are probably listening in, I have done way too much work from the floor of bathrooms and closets because sometimes that’s the only quiet spot I can take a phone call, you know, I mean, this is life and COVID, we all have to make it work and give ourselves permission to take a deep breath. And sometimes I just even do little breathing exercises with myself. And so this really feeds nicely into the concept of the four pillars that you mentioned. So for the listeners, why don’t you take us into that? Yeah. And this is something that I feel so strongly and passionately about because something happened Johnny in the way that we talked about self care, all this sudden self care became woo. It became yoga. It became green juice and it almost became political. And you either are self-indulgent person who does self care, or you take pride in the fact that you don’t drink green juice and do yoga.
Speaker 1 00:13:14 So there’s certainly physical self care, right? That’s going to be everything from our exercise, sleep, what we’re putting in our body. That’s kind of like the common sense self care. And then there’s also emotional, intellectual and spiritual. And when I work with my clients, this is where I really see the unlock habit. It can be anything from, you know, intellectual self care. It’s almost like we forget to use our brains for anything else besides work. Yeah, that’s right. You know, it could be reading, it could be podcasting, it could be doing something creative. I have one client right now who self care activity is picking back up her violin. Um, after years and years of not playing in a very high profile job and a very high profile company. Um, I’m working with one woman, she’s an emerging leader stepping into her first executive role.
Speaker 1 00:14:04 And she’s literally picked up just doodling and coloring. She’s used to love to draw that’s intellectual self care that’s creating and using your brain. And then certainly there’s the emotional self care. Whether that’s setting boundaries, connecting with friends, turning off the news, right? Like what just emotionally recharges you. Right. And then finally, Johnny, I know this is really your domain is right. And it’s really incredible, you know, that could be anything. And I’m sure our listeners love to hear your tips too, on mindfulness or meditation, or, you know, I have one client I’ve been working with who really misses the fellowship and community for organized religion and thinking about how she can perform that kind of spiritual self care going to church every weekend is just off the table in the city she’s living in.
Speaker 0 00:14:56 Right. Absolutely. Well, that’s off the table for almost everybody right now, if that was a part of your, you know, personal refresh, um, not right now, you know, did you ever take any Franklin Covey courses? Just curious. Yes. Well, no, Franklin Covey is the name of Stephen Covey’s company. It is named after Benjamin Franklin and then also Covey. So Benjamin Franklin was one of his personal heroes. And so I’m not from the, I’m not, I’m not sure if there is popular today as they used to be, but are you familiar with them?
Speaker 1 00:15:30 Not only am I familiar with them, they are my foray into this work. There was an, um, can I tell you a little story? Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:15:39 Yeah. We go for it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:15:42 So when I went to Emory university, which is where I did my undergrad, there was a fitness and physical education requirement. I like so many other undergrads rolled my eyes at this class. I’m too busy for this. I was 19 years old, right? What is busy when you’re 19? And I met this amazing woman who taught fitness at Emory named Kay Stewart, who was a burgeoning mindfulness coach. And as part of those PPEs, those physical education requirements, Kay, had gotten permission to pilot, a mindfulness course based on the, uh, the seven habits of highly effective people. And I took this mindfulness class with her to satisfy my health and wellness and physical education requirement. Looking back the number one thing, Kay, taught me in those classes and all the other ones. Cause I was, I ended up being a K groupie. I just took all my fitness and wellness classes with her. It’s not judgment. It’s just awareness. And it’s such a gift when we give ourselves at, so that’s not necessarily a Stephen Covey ism. Um, but yeah, I mean that more years ago that I’m going to admit on the podcast was really my first foray into coaching. Just a chance encounter in a physical education and wellness class and undergrad. I mean, classic life happens, right.
Speaker 0 00:17:06 Well, I’ll tell you, uh, I took, I was lucky enough to have my employer way back a million years ago, pay for me to go to a Franklin Covey course and it changed my life and it put me on a trajectory for impact and success. And it was based on the seven habits of highly effective people. And I had not yet been exposed to that book before. And, uh, the point of me bringing this up is, uh, the habit sharpen your saw and sharpening your saw in Franklin Covey speak, um, copyright Franklin company, inc, is, is about taking care of your knees and your wellbeing and investing the time and resources to recharge yourself so that you don’t have to work harder. If you take a few minutes to sharpen the saw you cut down more trees more quickly, and that was the focus. Then when you were talking with me earlier, when we were kind of brainstorming this episode about those four pillars, it made me think of sharpening the saw, because in my planner, I actually had those four categories. I remember way back when I was a first time manager, I had those four categories and every day, what was I doing for my spirituality or my intellect for my body and all of that. So I love that these truths are kind of coming to the surface. Again,
Speaker 1 00:18:31 I’ll just give you a real life example of what that can look like for our parents. So this Saturday I took three hours to myself. This is not a micro moment. This was like, especially in a COVID-19 world, this was a macro indulgence. And let me tell you what I accomplished in three hours by myself, the rules were no phone numbers.
Speaker 0 00:18:56 That seems hard. It was,
Speaker 1 00:18:59 I read a hundred pages of the book. I wrote two articles by hand
Speaker 0 00:19:09 Outline
Speaker 1 00:19:10 For my newsletter. I wrote a thank you note by hand to somebody that I wanted to send. And I came up with five ideas for my business, various things for me and my business and a few things for clients, not because I said, Oh, I have three hours. I’m going to do work. But because I spent the first hour sitting outside and reading, I went, I’m here at my parents house, which is where we’re recording tonight. Um, and had the luxury of dipping in the pool. And as soon as I took that swam, all of these ideas popped into my head. I’m telling you for, for having not work time, it was the three most productive hours of my week. And guess what? That magic is something that can be,
Speaker 0 00:20:00 Yes, that’s right. It’s a formula. It really is. You know, um, I like the concept of adding rituals to my life. And when I say rituals, you know, it sounds all religious and whatnot, but it’s not what I mean is establishing a pattern of activity that feels good. So it might be the way you make your coffee and the single place you sit every time you have your coffee in the morning, or it might be watering your plants, first thing on Saturday morning or whatever it is, it could be lighting a candle every single time you sit on the sofa, but it’s this kind of, um, I’m doing a therefore B happens. That gives me a reminder that things are spinning out of control. They may feel very fast paced, but I can build into my hectic day. These moments of pattern and predictability and gentle comfort
Speaker 1 00:21:01 And ritual is so powerful. You know, I that’s, when I think about what has made this just beyond schools closing, you know, what has made this such a difficult time for parents, as we think about how they can cultivate practical and effective self care in a COVID-19 world we had as parents, all of these rituals, even if you hated your commute, even if you hated getting the kids to school or daycare every day, getting them to the bus stop in time was a mad dash. There was ritual and rhythm for separation and boundaries around when we parent, when we work and there was a very sacred transition time. And whether most parents realize it or not, they have small little rituals in that trend,
Speaker 0 00:21:47 Right?
Speaker 1 00:21:48 From the way they scrolled their iPhone on the Metro, because the way they listen to their favorite podcasts in the car driving to work. So we’ve now collapsed boundaries. We’ve collapsed rituals. When I work with parents, it’s not, how do you recreate the rituals you had back in February in a COVID-19 world. It’s really an invitation to reimagine what ritual can look like and recreate things. And they can be small. I can’t come back enough to the power of these micro moments. One song, having your coffee by yourself, taking time to read an article for me, Johnny, my personal ritual is I’m. You know, some of our listeners will long for the days when their kids used to do this. My kids still nap. You know, I still have little kids that’s yours. And I love them to death, love them to death. When I put them down for their nap, I make myself a strawberry and banana smoothie.
Speaker 0 00:22:48 Oh, that’s perfect.
Speaker 1 00:22:50 Yeah I make it for me. I make a small little one that my daughter enjoys when she gets up from her nap because she’s four going on 14 and wants to be a part of everything. But for me, when I have that smoothie every day, I know that I’m entering a period of the day where it’s going to be my time and it’s just vanilla yogurt and frozen strawberries. Like it’s not complicated. This is easy stuff. So easy. And I really want to invite parents to think about what can make your life easy right now.
Speaker 0 00:23:20 That’s right. That’s right. Just taking the moment of mindfulness to say, where can I reestablish quiet moments of comfort on a daily basis? You know, it’s an anchor. It really acts that way. Randi, one thing that I noticed a lot from my clients, from other people I talk to is that this situation of COVID and the quarantine and shelter in place has inspired a lot of people to think of redesigning their careers and redesigning how they felt about working for Paul or the general structure of their career. So what has been your exposure to this changing thought?
Speaker 1 00:24:04 First thought, Johnny, if you’re not learning a lot about yourself and what you care about in a COVID-19 world, you’re not,
Speaker 0 00:24:11 Is that your alarm,
Speaker 1 00:24:18 This is a really exciting opportunity. And it’s one of the things that I personally feel really grateful about is that I feel like I’m learning a lot about myself and I know I’m not alone in that. You know, it’s really interesting for some people, they are redesigning their lives in ways that feel really voluntary for them. And unfortunately for some working families, they’re redesigning their lives in ways that don’t feel voluntary. So back in April fortune was one of the first publications to report on this. And I remember saying to my husband at the time that this article came out, watch this, this is going to be the Canary in the coal mine. They reported that 14% of working American women had either quit or considered quitting their job since the pandemic had begun. Keep in my mid April, we were only about six weeks, widespread lockdowns, max. There’s more and more research coming out every day. And you know, we are figuring out very quickly, economists and pundits on TV have figured out what working parents have figured out for months, which is there are some days where it feels like we just can’t function. And as it turns out, neither can our economy, there are 26, some estimates, eight 26 million working Americans with schooling.
Speaker 0 00:25:44 Hmm.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 It really is an opportunity to redesign our lives. I see working women every single day who are really thinking about what’s important to them. And I’m proud to tell you, Johnny and my coaching practice, I have working mothers who have gotten promotions during this time that a new jobs, when organizations are on hiring freezes, we have gotten raises when budgets are being cut at their organizations. And so it’s not to say that people aren’t thriving, but I also want people to know if they don’t feel like they’re thriving, they’re not
Speaker 0 00:26:21 That’s right. And this is such a rich opportunity. Like you said, to get in touch with what really matters, what are my driving principles? When I make a spur of the moment decision, what are my values? And I think that we, as a culture, we all think, Oh, yep. Oh, honesty is my value. Yeah. I love honesty. You know, um, charity. Oh yeah. We got to take care of
Speaker 0 00:26:51 Exactly. And you know, in reality, not everybody makes their decisions based on honesty or charity or service and that’s okay. Like there’s nothing wrong with achievement being a primary value. Not everybody needs to go live in a convent. Nobody ever made that rule. It’s okay to want to be surrounded by luxury. That’s fine. And, but be honest, like accept it, own it because that’s your power. That’s your super power to know what makes you tick is a super power. And this is a time for us to say, I know that I don’t want to live a life of service. I want to live a life of achievement. Okay, great. Or I know that my focus is going to be on learning new things. It’s not going to be on that 25% pay increase I was expecting for next year. And that’s okay. I can’t over state the importance of understanding your values. And I know you do a lot of work on identifying values with your, with your clients. How do you help them to uncover what those are?
Speaker 1 00:28:03 Yeah. So typically when I’m working with a client, especially when I’m working with a working parent, who’s feeling some kind of tension in their life. And this was even pre COVID. It’s really, really easy for us to get all of the different strands of our life, nodded up into one wall. And then life just feels complicated and messy and not enough, and we can’t untangle it. And so as part of that untangling process, I often have clients break down four parts of their life. What are their goals personally, professionally with their family and financially, but with my clients, you know, it’s really a lot easier to integrate all the different parts of our lives when we first take a little bit of time to segment them out. And so that can be really, really helpful for folks to understand just, Hey, like what do I want professionally? What do I want financially? And sometimes those things are in conflict, but until you take the time to really rumble with that conflict to borrow a Brene Brownism is you can’t really get anywhere in living and leading on purpose. One thing in particular that I offered to parents right now is great thinking big picture. Really, really great. As you’re thinking about how you want to move the dial from surviving to thriving in a COVID-19 world. I also want to get parents permission to just ask themselves what’s important to me, to them.
Speaker 0 00:29:21 Yes, that’s it.
Speaker 1 00:29:24 Right now. I can not tell you how liberating it is to make a decision in the here and now. And there’s never been a more urgent time to do it. That’s how you take care of yourself. That’s how you see the warning signs.
Speaker 0 00:29:36 That’s right. It’s really painful. Randi. When, when I live, I’ll about me, when I live in a way that is not consonant with my values, there are so many times where I said yes to a job that I didn’t want. It didn’t feel right, but I wanted the money. And so I said, yes, when my insides were saying, no pivot, go this way. Find something that makes you feel joy. And I said, Nope, I want to, I want to shop. I want to buy my furniture at pottery barn at age 24. So I’m going to go take this job that I don’t want because it pays more well, that hurts. Like it hurt me. And it may not have been bone crushing pain in the moment. But over time I wake up one day and I don’t like my life. And like what greater pain is there, then not wanting the life you have for me.
Speaker 0 00:30:32 That’s the true wealth of taking a moment to know what really matters to me. Listen, if my primary focus is that I need to buy a house in a certain school district, because that is my primary deciding factor for these next couple of years. Great. If that’s what feels right, you should pour all of your love and energy into it. But if that is to keep up with the Joneses and that’s not what your insides are telling you to do, you’re going to pay the consequences of that decision. My clients are paying the consequences of it. That’s why they come and talk to me because they don’t know how they ended up in a life that feels so lukewarm.
Speaker 1 00:31:10 Absolutely. And you know, it’s, it’s complicated. I think it’s really complicated for parents, Johnny. You know, I just think about when you add up, I have two kids in daycare, one kid in diapers. And when, you know, both of my kids were formula babies, you know, it costs thousands and thousands of dollars, um, to just make it all work, to provide the bare necessities to your children and my children, weren’t in some like Lux daycare, right? But just in a daycare, you know, Johnny and where are you? And I live in Washington, D C in like the basement of a federal building, nothing fancy. And so I really respect and appreciate the decisions that parents are making every single day. And this has been a tough time for a lot of parents. It, it feels scary, especially for parents of older children, where they’re really thinking about getting close to college about what it feels like to lose your job, what it feels like to worry about being furloughed or worried about the economy.
Speaker 1 00:32:09 You know, this came up, I did a thriving while remote workshops for a private school in Washington DC. And one of the women who attended asked me in the Q&a, she said, Randi, one of the tips Johnny I had given was, you know, you gotta figure out what you can to your point of living your values, what you can delegate deputize or skip when you don’t have the same eight to nine hours in a day so that you can really maximize and optimize your impact. And he said during the Q and a that’s really great in concept, but I’m really worried. They’re going to be making cuts in my organization. And I feel like they need to show up and perform because I’m the breadwinner in my family. That’s a really real issue. You know, my advice to her first. So I felt for her, this is just such an excruciatingly hard time for so many people.
Speaker 1 00:32:57 And I feel for him, and what I just shared with her was when the reviews come around right now, you can’t do a hundred percent of your work at a hundred percent of your capacity at a hundred percent of your performance. And I said, when, when those tough conversations come around, do you want to be the person who did a hundred percent of your work at 70% or 70% of your work at a hundred percent? And again, I, we have parents listening. I just want to give themselves permission to breathe, to recalibrate. And to really, I fell for that woman. And she also loved her job. That was the really special thing about her. They had made a decision, she was the breadwinner. She was Sam good at her job and loved it. And that struggle is really very real for a lot of people right now.
Speaker 0 00:33:43 That’s right. You know, and I certainly hope that people listening don’t feel that I would want to diminish the pain of that decision. What I’m saying is, okay, here’s the reality of today? It doesn’t mean this is a lifetime sentence. It means that, okay, I’m going to have to buckle down and continue this path for the next nine months. And I’m willing to build structures so that I can show love to myself and provide for my family and then pivot when it’s right for me. Because what I’ve seen is that we don’t ever even put down on paper, the opportunity to pivot later, we resign ourselves to a life of pain and I’m here to tell everybody, no one was born to have a life of pain. You are a spark of God, you are born for magnificence and greatness, and I’m going to goosebumps like your heart.
Speaker 1 00:34:48 And this is one thing I see with parents all the time, not just, you know, in my coaching practice. I hear it in conversations with colleagues and friends, when you’re working parent on a good day, right? We talked about those Pew stats at the beginning of our conversation in a pre coronavirus world, 56% of American working parents described it as challenging or tricky to make it all work. A lot of times we spend our time thinking about how we can minimize stress in our lives. And I find that for the clients I work with transformation and happiness really comes when, instead of focusing on minimizing stress, they’re focused on maximizing joy. And I know that was my own path to taking the greatest leap of, of my career. Everything on paper told me I should have stayed in my day job, great job, best perks I ever had at any company.
Speaker 1 00:35:45 Right? So I’m not, I’m an old guy, worked with wonderful people, loved the clients, right? I did not run away from a job. I just liked for me. I look back and I think I get goosebumps thinking about it. If I had been caught up in a mindset of remediation in minimizing stress, I would have dropped all the things I was doing with something major when it was just a little side hustle on the side. But instead, every single day I was leaning into what brought me joy. Now did that mean I ran myself down at the end, trying to do it all certainly, but I know I made the right decision, but I feel for parents who are on the class of these big decisions, I, you know, the first few months being full time in my business, I was paying my kids’ daycare, tuition bills out of my savings.
Speaker 1 00:36:33 Now it doesn’t matter. It’s all come out with a wash, but those were, those were scary months where you think to yourself, man, I have a responsibility to two little people who are counting on me and never did I worry the roof over their head was in jeopardy. This was real life and really tough decisions. And life is really full of really tough decisions. And so part of self care is thinking about not just how you minimize stress, because sometimes you just need to blow off steam. You just need to minimize a little bit of stress, but really when we can shift our mindset towards cultivating joy, following our heart, you know, letting ourselves be excited and see where that excitement takes us. That’s where the really big stuff happens.
Speaker 0 00:37:15 Yes, that’s right. I call it living by Plinko. Do you remember Plinko from the price is right?
Speaker 1 00:37:23 Not only do I remember Plinko but last year I lived one of my life’s dreams, which was to go to a live taping.
Speaker 0 00:37:30 Oh no,
Speaker 1 00:37:34 No, we did. I wasn’t called out, but I did guess the showcase show down to like a thousand dollars. Like I would have won if I was both the man named Ron walked away with like four cars and a Winnebago, which, who would’ve thought a Winnebago would be so important this year?
Speaker 0 00:37:52 No, no. Now, yeah. That’s gold. So this formula for living, it’s really based in being present in the moment. But living by Plinko is a system that works like this. You stand at the top of the Plinko board with your puck and you look down and there are 350 pegs and your puck is going to bounce from peg to peg, to peg. And each peg is the next moment in time. So I drop my pocket and wherever I think is the most opportune place. And I hit a peg and my pox is going to go left or it’s going to go, right. And both ways are okay, which way do I prefer? Let me think, okay, I’m going to go left. And as I go peg by peg, by peg, I can gently guide my life towards the $10,000. I can’t go straight down. I can’t go in a straight line.
Speaker 0 00:38:48 It is the end result of a million tiny decisions. Every time I listened to my heart, I get closer to the $10,000. Every time I listened to my fear, I go away from the $10,000, but it takes a lot of effort and presence to be able to identify in the moment, is this fear or is this love? Why am I choosing what I’m choosing right now? Oh, that’s fear. You know what? I’m going to go left. I’m gonna go towards love. And it’s I find it’s a winning strategy. And it’s what, it’s something I try to teach my clients. And, um, with that, I think we’re running out of time. Randi. I am so grateful. I’m so grateful that the refractive audience is going to get a chance to hear some of your experience. And I would love for you to share with us how we can get in touch with you.
Speaker 1 00:39:42 Absolutely. You can get in touch with me anytime on www.somethingmajorcoaching.com or you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m Randi Braun – Randi with an I- and Johnny, I really invite all of your listeners to check out the insight center on my website. I have tons of free on demand resources, both for working parents and for non parents on how you can live your best life in a COVID-19 world and a non COVID-19 worlds, including for our parents, an audit that they can use to determine whether they’re thriving or surviving while remote, and hopefully get them a few steps closer to thriving. So thank you Johnny, for having me on so much fun, chatting with you and hitting the record button and forward to doing it again soon.
Speaker 0 00:40:26 Yes. Thank you, Randi. Everybody. This is Johnny G with refractive. I’m a personal career and spiritual coach based in DC, but I work locally and remotely with people who know they are meant for more than a lead form life. My goal is to live my best life by helping others live their best lives. So find me on Facebook at refractive coaching. Find me on Twitter or instagram at refractivelife or on the web at www.refractivecoaching.com. Thanks again to Randi Braun, founder of something major. Remember you can go visit her and her insight center at www.somethingmajorcoaching.com . Check her out. She is an unstoppable force, which you already know if you have completed this episode. So have a great day. Everyone be good to each other and don’t forget aim your light.
Speaker 2 00:41:12 .

This episode features an interview with Artist Stan Piotroski, who shares how his meandering life path was no accident, but a step-by-step foundation to build the life of his dreams by following his intuition.

To access his breathtaking works and add them to your own collection, please visit the website of my guest today, artist Stan Piotroski, at www.stanpiotroski.com

Visit www.refractivecoaching.com or www.refractivepodcast.com for more resources on stepping into your most authentic life. Additional uplifting content can be found on the Refractive YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

For similarly-themed episodes, try these: Dr. Karen Barnard, The Courage to Change Careers or Surrender to Greatness

Transcript follows- please excuse any inaccuracies from the automatic transcription software.

***Please note: Transcripts are performed automatically by software; please pardon any inconsistencies.***

Speaker 1 00:00:40 Good afternoon, everybody. This is Johnny G with refractive. If you’re

familiar with refractive and its values, you know that right?

Speaker 3 00:00:48 One of my guiding principles and you hear it a lot in my content is aim

your light. I mentioned this phrase fairly often with clients as well, because it references the

immeasurable power of creation that I believe lies within each person. And that creative power is

available for use. Whenever we agree to live by our gut or live by our intuition. In fact, the reason

I chose the name refractive for my organization for my practice is the quality of each person

being like a prism to receive in energy and then transform bend an aim that energy, as we put it

back out to the world, I have a treat for you today. I’ll be introducing you to Stan PI Troskey. He is

an individual I’ve met some years ago here in DC. Stan has molded a life of love and joy for

himself by listening to that inner sense of knowing and by stepping in faith and courage that his

inner guidance was worth following he’s someone who indeed does aim his light.

Speaker 3 00:02:08 And he’s someone that I deeply respect from my perspective. Stan is

actively responsible for his place in the world, and he is responsible for the energy he puts out to

others. This is a big reason why I wanted to introduce him too. The refractive world here over

stand’s long professional life. He has risen entitled in responsibility, adding prestige through a

solid handful of sectors. He was an officer in the armed forces. He was a federal employee in

the executive branch. He was a psychotherapist with a private practice, and that’s just to name a

few phases of his career. But beneath this life story, a both officer and gentlemen, Stan says that

he always knew he would be a full time artist. And throughout his life, he carved out time space,

energy resources for that passion. So unlike many of us, and I really speak for myself who had

been drawn to a creative field, but have settled in the past for a more realistic or stable or classic

type of career.

Speaker 3 00:03:20 Stan told me that his earlier roles were not chosen at the expense of his

love of art. Rather, they were deliberately selected as a part of his life path and they led him step

by step into the life he lives today, where he can in fact, devote his time and energy to art.

Today’s Stan operates his own art studio and his own gallery. And just like so many times before

he is exactly where he feels he should be now his life as an artist. Isn’t the only example of

Stan’s willingness to say yes to the universe. He also said yes to love and not long ago, Stan

followed his gut yet again and married his husband and having had the privilege to meet stand’s

husband. I can assure you, they are as lovely and inspiring a couple as I’ve ever met. So with

that said, let’s get to it. Hi Stan. Good afternoon. How are you doing today?

Speaker 4 00:04:27 Oh, good afternoon, John. And thank you for those kind and generous

words. Um, I’m having a lovely day and I was looking forward to speaking on this podcast and

relating my experience as to how my life dreams have developed. So I’m happy to be here

today.

Speaker 3 00:04:49 Thank you so much. I am delighted to have view and you know, I think

that one of the elements that brings people to refractive is the feeling that they’ve received

guidance and intuition throughout their life, that they’re supposed to follow path a, but they’ve

second guess themselves. And they’ve chosen the more safe society endorsed path, um,

thereby leaving themselves, feeling lukewarm and unsatisfied by where they end up. Uh, and I

think that this moment, which is a crazy moment in the history of our world is a really good time

for people to pivot and to listen to their heart and do what feels right to them. And because I

have seen you from the outside follow that type of path, I really feel that there’s some value for

you a —

— nd our listeners. So thank you for the sake of the listeners who may be hearing this in future

months, although Stan and I both live in DC, we’re connected today by video because of the

COVID quarantine.

Speaker 3 00:05:59 So listeners please, excuse us. If the audio quality may be a little bit

inconsistent compared to what we normally do. So with that, we’re going to get, we’re going to

get started with talking about sand here. So Stan, you and I have been in each other’s orbits for

about five years now. And when I first started to do a podcast at the beginning of this year, I

knew immediately that I wanted you to be on it. And there are two reasons for that. The first

reason is that you have a very calming presence, um, and it feels good to be in a room with you

that calming presence that you have spreads. And it’s a special quality that in my experience

can take a while to develop. So am I off base with this? Do you understand what I’m talking

about,

Speaker 4 00:06:50 Johnny? I, I do understand what you’re referring to and oftentimes

there’s moments in my life where the calm, the settles in, and there also other times when

there’s an next excitement. And then in that pension of the future of the bow, for the most part, I

believe that I’m, I’m settled within myself. And that takes a lot of work, a lot of opportunity, Trinity,

uh, to develop that sense of security within one’s lines. And at this point in time, it’s something

that actually coming naturally. So Johnny, your intuition is working very well.

Speaker 3 00:07:43 Can you send that? It takes a little bit of work, at least it had in the past

for you. What did that, how did that look?

Speaker 4 00:07:52 Well, you know, I think that a lot of it is looking at oneself and a variety

of factors. Certainly therapy has been a part of that starting in New York city and following

through and in different venues where you get to explore the inner self. Uh, I’m a strong believer

in meditation. I believe that can be very helpful. It quiets the mind and allows you to get in touch

with that part of yourself that, you know, has always been there. Uh, you know, the other

dimension of our lives. And I’ve had great opportunity in my life too. Get in touch with that

dimension of hunting quite a bit, a bit of traveling all over the world, some of a professionally

oftentimes, uh, it has been for pleasure, but it’s been in unique situations where, uh, you get in

touch with something much greater than yourself and it allows you to be open in a way that, um,

you may not be if you don’t have that same opportunity to be there. So that’s, that’s certainly part

of it. Part of my experience,

Speaker 3 00:09:25 What is your preferred methodology for meditation today?

Speaker 4 00:09:31 Breathing, paying attention to your breathing. I’m following, you know,

certain people who are master have mastered the art of meditation and who are good teachers

sitting quietly, allowing your mind to go wherever it’s going to go. Okay.

Speaker 3 00:09:56 Did you use YouTube or apps to find these individuals that you follow?

Speaker 4 00:10:03 I do

Speaker 3 00:10:04 Any that you’d like to recommend off the top of your head. I don’t know if

you might know their names.

Speaker 4 00:10:09 Well, certainly I would recommend Jonathan Foust, who is a local

individual and he is part of the insight community here in the DC Metro area. Yeah. Uh, and

Jonathan, you know, is quite experienced. And then I follow apps Inside timer, Nicholas. It is a

discipline. And when I first started, I really need, it had to have that discipline in my life too, to

quiet the mind.

Speaker 3 00:10:46 I also started my experience with meditation through apps, because as

you know, at first, there’s just no way to sit there silently for 10 minutes and enjoy it. It’s a little

bit, it’s a little bit of craziness going on in the mind. And so by using those brief guided

meditations for five minutes, eight minutes at a time, eventually I got to the point where I could

enjoy just following my breath and doing it silently. But yeah, I love those apps. I really think that

they opened door. You know, The second reason that I wanted to have you on the refractive

podcast, Dan, is that you put out, that’s a significant love energy. Sometimes it looks like

kindness. Sometimes it looks like caring, but as I’ve seen you interact with different people, there

is reall —

— y just a lovely flow of love that comes out of you. And what is your awareness of that? Is it

something that you have cultivated or is it just an automatic natural part of you?

Speaker 4 00:11:55 No, I believe it’s a part of me. My parents are very loving and accepting

people who instilled in us

Speaker 4 00:12:05 The value of being open to a loving, kindness and generosity in our

lives. It’s developed certainly over the years. And as I age, it really began to understand what’s

important in your life and people are important. I’m also valuing those attributes and people

where love slows freely. You know, the, there is very few pretense of a gloves in life, either it’s

there or it’s not there. But I also understand when people can’t show love that there’s something

going on and they just may need some help to do that. I’ve had plenty of help to have an internal

freedom where I can just express lovingly how I experienced someone. I always feel that there’s

something good and everyone.

Speaker 3 00:13:14 Alright, thank you for that. From my perspective, Stan, you seem to

have learned to tune your life compass to something that seems very healthy and nourishing. Is

that correct? Do I have that assumption correctly?

Speaker 4 00:13:30 I believe so.

Speaker 3 00:13:32 What can you say about that?

Speaker 4 00:13:34 Well, it comes from a variety of sources, certainly, you know, the work

that we do on ourselves and the enlightenment that we experienced through the process, the

variety of the processes that are open to us, you know, has led to discovery discovery of who we

are and where we want to go and, uh, what we want with our lives. But I think the basis of all of

that is a certain level of trust trust in one’s beliefs, trust in it, venture that you want to be on and

the courage to take those halves. I think we’ve all done that you’ve done that. I’ve done that. And

it’s a knowing that we develop in our lives and trusting that no. And if there’s doubt, then we

check it out with other people. No, uh, no man or woman is an Island.

Speaker 3 00:14:31 how have you been able to develop and grow that trust

Speaker 4 00:14:38 Time and experience well has helped me to develop that trust.

Speaker 3 00:14:51 How so?

Speaker 4 00:14:54 Well, I, I think, you know, from age Johnny, it is continuing to experiment

with your life and you try many things, you venture out whatever to wherever and whatever you

know is leading you in that path. And you build on the success of openness and willingness.

That’s been minds. And again, you know, having the resolve to follow what you know is right. I

really believe that each one of us has a sense of who we are and where we want to go. And

sometimes it just takes a while to get there.

Speaker 3 00:15:44 Yeah, That’s lovely. All right. That resonates with me Taking that idea of

your life compass, relating it to the idea of higher self inner wisdom, gut and intuition. How does

your intuition show up for you in what form does your intuition show up?

Speaker 4 00:16:07 That’s a good question. I think it happens in all forms of life. What’s

worked for you in the past. Yeah. Builds on our intuition. Uh, and then there is a good experience

where you just know what’s right. Yeah. Have clear away some of the wreckage of the past and,

and understand yourself in a more detailed fashion you could begin to, to trust yourself so that

when you have an inspiration, you, first of all, value that inspiration from where it’s coming and

then you proceed to proceed with the willingness to try things out. That’s what I’ve done in my

life. And then feedback, feedback from others. I think, I believe and think is an important part of

the process of intuition. Then I think there is an innate part of intuition. You just know, you know,

you just know the next right thing to do.

Speaker 3 00:17:20 You know? Um, with the beginning of the quarantine started, I, uh, I had

this very strong idea that I needed to buy a dog and I swear stand like I would have, I did. I

argued with people. I was like, no, like I’m telling you, this is, I had been guided to this. And uh, I

spoke to a friend of mine and he said, Johnny, you literally don’t have a life that permits a dog.

Like it is selfish. And it is not looking at the big perspective of this. If you want a dog, you first

need to make several changes to the way your life i —

— s structured. And I’m just going to say that and offer it to you. Another thing. And that shook

me, you know, to me, it was a good example of how, in one moment I can believe that

something is so right, but then I need to bounce it off people. It might not be right at that

moment.

Speaker 4 00:18:33

Speaker 3 00:18:34 I find that to be one of the most difficult aspects of discernment, not

every idea that is presented to me by my intuition is most appropriate. In that moment. It might

be something that needs to be tucked away and left to Germany for six months or a year before

it’s appropriate.

Speaker 4 00:19:01 Timing is important. He may know something about yourself prior to me,

you made that on you, something that a dream that you want to pursue, but oftentimes it’s not

the right time. That’s helpful to speak to value of friends and mentor to discuss justice and

opportunity that you’re thinking about with them. And there are times when they say, go for it

right now, why would you not go for it? And that might be because there’s some apprehension,

there’s some self doubt. That’s where the value of people in your life is so important that you can

bounce ideas, all of them and get a perspective. We can develop so much perspective on our

own, and that comes from experience and successful experience. But having the opportunity

when you’re stuck to talk to someone and say, I’m not quite sure about this, but I really think that

this is an important path for me to take. What do you think?

Speaker 3 00:20:23 Yeah. I’m telling you if not, I would be, I would, I would be having a dog

with me on this road trip right now stand. So I, uh, I am grateful for the wisdom of, uh, of trusted

friends. Yes, for sure. So, uh, since you just talked about timing as being so, so important, you’ve

mentioned that you’ve always known that your career would move towards art. Um, I wonder

why you did not jump into a career in art as a young adult, but instead built it gradually over time.

Speaker 4 00:21:15 Well, I think my first response to that and I’ll go into a little more detail is

that they were competing life circumstances that had value and chose to follow one path over

another. I knew as a child, that I was an artist, I was a talented child artist and knew that my

talent was innate. I had paybacks from family, friends, and professionals. And as I, uh,

developed into a teenager, I had opportunities to do that, to do art on a high school level. Then I

entered college and my artistic training began there. And I started to show my work to sell my

work at a very young age and won an award. So there was enough feedback and this, the

stream of life, that’s a, you are an artist. And as I went forward in my life and I received a degree

in psychology and then a masters in social work and then a doctorate in social work, I was still

painting.

Speaker 4 00:22:47 I was still working. I aren’t edited a book. So there was a consistency in

my life that said, this is who you are, but that was also, or than that, I had a lot of training as a

psychotherapist and valued all of that and understood that that was important for me as I went

on in life, I knew that at some point I would become a full time artist. There was never any doubt

in my mind that that’s the direction I was going, but there were other things I wanted to do before

that. And now I have the resources and my life as I retired from my professional life as a social

worker and director sure that I could now devote to art. And for the past five years, actually, even

that while I was still, uh, working, I was actively you’re painting and doing shows and exhibits. So

it’s always been a part of my life. And this is, you know, not just, um, one train it’s knowing, and

this is something that I know

Speaker 3 00:24:08 What I am Feeling from. You know, your answer to that question

Speaker 3 00:24:16 Is a serenity around building a foundational life, uh, of establishing a

nice firm base and, uh, refining it, uh, as you move up over time. And this is exactly what I was

talking about a few minutes ago with the idea of a dog, right? If I want a dog, let me build a

foundation first and let me be serene. And knowing that while today is not the day that I go to the

pound today might be the day that I choose not to renew my lease, where I am. And instead look

for something that fits better. I hear that from you in this process of bui —

— lding the life that you want over time.

Speaker 4 00:25:07 Well, Johnny, I think it’s core and I believe it’s important for all of us to

identify what we clearly know about ourselves and what well, we value in ourselves. I know that

in relationships and I know that professionally, and I know that as far as well, my dream there’s

an aspirations are at this point in my life. And to accept that and to believe it and to follow

through on it, you know, I have the good fortune that I’m able to do that. And I’m very grateful for

that.

Speaker 3 00:25:49 How does fear show up in your life today?

Speaker 4 00:25:53 Fear has always been a part of my life and dealing with fear or anxiety.

It’s more about an anxiety. You can look at anxiety in a positive or a negative way. How does it

help me to live my life comfortably a day at a time? And how does it interfere? Yeah. And each

time that I think about that regarding what circumstances I’ve timed myself, I know that all things

work out and that I’m not in control of all of this, but I’m here to serve a purpose and to be of

service as long as I’m here on this planet and wherever I go from

Speaker 3 00:26:44 There, who knows? Yes. When you talked about the positive, as well as,

uh, the more challenging sides of anxiety, this is something that I have grown to accept as, as a

truth for me in my life, there is nothing that is wrong, right? So if I were to lose a member of my

family, if there were to be a hurricane that wiped out my home, that as distasteful and

unpleasant, as it may be, this is the course I signed up on earth school. Like this is the course I

signed up for. This is the healing in my being that I need in order to be more whole and to

access more of my true essence as a child of the creator. Uh, but it’s hard. It doesn’t feel good

all the time. Know, Stan, let me ask, what would you advise to people who have felt called to a

creative vocation?

Speaker 3 00:28:02 And let me just, let me just peel back the layer and say me I’m talking

about me. Okay. Because when I was in high school, I wanted to move to New York, go to NYU,

be an actor I imagined being on stage and just living that life. And it felt so beautiful to me. And I

never gave any soil to that plant. Right? Like there was just no chance from the gate that I was

ever going to seriously entertain even a partial element of that. We weren’t even going to do

communities. We weren’t going to do anything with it because it just felt that eventually I would

fail it. Wasn’t going to work out. It would be a life of pain and difficulty. And then I would go and

eventually have to take some office job anyway. And now I’d be years behind my peers in title

and income, you know? And, uh, so I gave up that calling of applying my creative force. And I

think I’m not alone in this. I feel like this is a common story. So what would you say to people

who are currently in that situation?

Speaker 4 00:29:18 I would say go to an acting class, sign up, do it that’s simple. Huh?

That’s simple. Just do it. I attended a, uh, master oil painting class in Provence and it was, um, a

landscape painting, class impressionism. And I like impressionism, but I’m an abstract

expressionism. And I went to the South of France and it was an arduous, tough class. And after

three days, I said, I’m not going to do this. And I called my son. I called him, my husband. I

called other important people in my lives. And I said, you know what? This is really hard. And

they all chuckled. And that, especially my sons, that, that even you can do hard things.

Speaker 4 00:30:25 So I will tell you straight, okay. Yeah. What I once told him, which, which

we both had a chuckle over, but it was that contact. Uh, and I was honest. It really was quite

demanding. We would paint 12, 15 hours a day and it was out of my comfort zone. But the

support that I got from my son and husband and others was that you can do it. And we were

actually painting in the darn close to, uh, the, uh, barkeep decides a palace, which is quite lovely.

And I said, well, I can’t see the paint time even mixing, which is a wonderful metaphor. And I just

painted something. I brought it back cause we’d had teak of all the artists by the, a masterclass

leader. And it turned out to be some of my okay, best break through art. Wow. So, you know, uh,

so my, my recommendation for those individuals who are saying, gee, I don’t know where to

start.

Speaker —

— 4 00:31:46 We’ll just do it go. And you know, if it’s, if it’s photography sign up for

photography calls, if it’s acting sign up for an acting class, if it’s marked sign up for an art class

or go to a art store and get, um, a palette and some paints and a canvas, if that’s what you want

to do. Uh, at one of my most recent shows, there was a lovely, a moment ago, came in since she

showed me her, her work. And she had just a beautiful touch of water colors, which I find to be

extraordinary. And it’s very abstract and I, the chain don’t stop. And then another little eight year

old girl in, and she goes, I’m an artist. And I said, I believe you and her pants were standing

there beaming. Cause you knew they were supportive of her art. And she showed me some of

the work that she was doing.

Speaker 4 00:32:55 And it was, it was really quite talented. So, you know, just do it. This is

where you stop questioning, but you already know, and you looked for the opportunity and you

started at a point where going, Oh, I can do this. And if you don’t think you can, then you have to

ask us tough. Why not? If it’s out of apprehension or fear or just indecision or sometimes it’s it’s I

don’t have the money and okay. You know, then you figure out another alternative that you can

explore this, create a part of yourself. And, and don’t listen to the voice that says, I don’t want to

do it now. Just do it wisdom for the ages. Listen, just listen to what, you know, listen to what you

know, that’s the tee shirt we’re going to make for this episode. Listen to what a great idea. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:34:03 Listen to what you know. Um, Stan, you said something just now that I

really, and listen, this is not the compliment stand out, but I really feel that your response to that

young lady, when she said I’m an artist and you said, I believe you like that is such an

exceptional.

Speaker 4 00:34:25 So full of love and validation and gentleness. And I just think that this

encapsulates why you are memorable to people, I have to say, so Johnny, our quality, the Polish

personality intuitive in your own. Right? So stop question. Thank you, Sam.

Speaker 3 00:34:58 I want to move on to a couple of rapid fire questions.

Speaker 4 00:35:02 Okay. My purpose is to enjoy life and to spread that to others, God is, I

love him. I love happiness. Grace to me is presence in my life that I don’t have to do any of this

alone. Prayer to me is a connection with something greater than myself.

Speaker 3 00:35:41 I’m most proud of

Speaker 4 00:35:45 Life.

Speaker 3 00:35:48 This is what I know for sure.

Speaker 4 00:35:51 I never have to do any of this alone.

Speaker 3 00:35:54 Powerful. I love it. And love it. As we wrap up, Stan, what do you feel

like to say?

Speaker 4 00:36:03 I encourage everyone to be present in their lives to trust what they know

about themselves, to give themselves the permission to proceed. If there’s doubt, bring people in

your life that you know, you can trust for their guidance and consideration, chin and love. Um,

don’t stop. Keep going. You know, uh, identify what you know, to be truthful about yourself and

trusting

Speaker 3 00:36:44 Words to live by Stan. You are a beautiful man who leaves any room

you enter better than it was. So thank you so much. I am just grateful for you to share your light

and your experiences with us today.

Speaker 4 00:36:59 You’re most welcome Johnny

Speaker 3 00:37:02 Stan, where can people see your art? Uh, would you like to spell out

your website?

Speaker 4 00:37:07 Yes. It’s Stan piotrowski.com.

Speaker 3 00:37:13 How do you spell Petroski

Speaker 4 00:37:16 As in Paul? I O T R O S K I

Speaker 3 00:37:22 Alright, Dan, thanks so much folks. This is Johnny G with refractive

coaching and podcasts. I’m a personal and career coach in Washington, D C I help people, both

in-person and remotely who want to make space for a life that feels right. So please reach out to

**@******************************ng.com or visit my website, refractive coaching.com. I

publish new content all the time on social media, usually a little nuggets of wisdom or beauty that

I find anything that I think will put more light out into the world. It’s a great way to dilute some of

the darker stuff that might be on your timelines right now. So find me on Instagram and Twitter at

refractive life, L I F —

— E refractive life and on Facebook at refractive coaching. Also, if you’ve enjoyed the podcast

today, please subscribe to this podcast and give it a rating. Every single time you do that, it helps

people find the content.

Speaker 3 00:38:20 And my goal is to live my best life by helping other people do the same.

So I appreciate anything you might do to help me help others. And just a quick update regarding

my blog. A few weeks back at the last minute I lost the apartment I was moving into due to mold.

I decided instead of stressing out and forcing myself into a new place in six days from scratch, I

would just put my stuff in storage news, my ridiculous DC rent money and take a two month road

trip across the U S is it some friends visit some families drive through some parts of the country

that I’ve never been through. Of course, keeping in mind, wellbeing and serenity and not in the

time of COVID. I am calling this experiment above the storm because I just don’t believe I need

to suffer through it.

Speaker 3 00:39:19 There may have been a time in my life where that was necessary, but

just like a pilot I can choose just to fly above it, look down, see what’s happening. Um, but enjoy

the view. And that’s what I’m trying to do. I’ve never done something like this before. We’re going

to see how it goes. You can follow along on my blog, go to refractive, coaching.com and click on

blog. You can subscribe there. I’ll also be using video blog, text and social media to document

my adventures over this time. So I do invite you to come and watch what happens when I stop

asking why. And I start saying, okay, what feels right? Thanks again to standby. Troskey for

coming on refractive so much love and light to you, my friend, and to all of the listeners have a

great day. Everybody be good to each other and always remember to aim your.

—

In this episode of Refractive Podcast, host Johnny Guidry shares a treasure trove of my best tips on creating a great, effective resume, gathered from over 16 years of HR, Training, and Talent Sourcing experience. Following this guidance will give you resume that will at least be taken seriously, and at best will get you in the interview chair to share how you can be of value to a new employer. Good luck!

For similarly themed content, try these episodes: Jumpstart (or Refresh) your Job Search or Dr. Karen Barnard- The Courage to Change Careers. The Refractive YouTube page is chock-full of uplifting content. You’ll find it here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

Find below the transcript of this episode. Visit http://www.refractivecoaching.com for more info on the Refractive family of services, including resume and LinkedIn services and interview preparation.

Hello. Hello. Good afternoon. This is Johnny G. Welcome to refractive. Today’s episode is about how to elevate your resume. I was an HR director and uh, I spent 16 of my years involved in all aspects of HR from training to recruiting to benefits and compensation. And I have to say I’ve been surprised how mysterious resumes still seem to people. So since this was something that I was an expert in in my last career, I thought I would share with you some tips on how to make your resume friendly to a hiring manager. There are certain types of formatting and content that make a resume difficult to process and when someone is going through a stack of 20 or 30 resumes, anything that makes it less simple to process is going to place you at a disadvantage. So that’s what we’re going to focus on today.  

I do want to warn you upfront, the transitions from topic to topic won’t be very smooth because I did sit down and draft out simply a list of the most important aspects to cover. So we will be hopping from topic to topic and I hope you’ll bear with me as we do that. So let’s dive right in. You know I’m going to quickly glance over some things that might be common sense, but they’re important to underlie. First of all, don’t lie. Um, a lot of hiring managers do check references and it’s important that you don’t lie about your length of employment, your title, your responsibilities, or your achievements as well. I also want to encourage you to stick to the common length guideline of one resume page per 10 years of professional experience. If you want to vary from that, it’s up to you. But again, um, it does, it does get noticed if you have an unusually long resume.  

I also think it’s a good time to point out that there are certain industries that have their own resume guidelines. If that applies to you, you already know what I’m talking about. So take this with a grain of salt. If you work for the federal government, if you are in visual media or some other type of role where resume formatting and content are a little bit special, you know, I feel that brief employment generally doesn’t have much value to add on a resume. If you work somewhere two, three, or four months, it’s probably not worth putting on your resume. You haven’t even finished your training and onboarding yet and you most likely weren’t fully productive yet. So it doesn’t give me as a hiring manager information as to what you’re capable of. What it does is indicate that you might be a flight risk. So I don’t recommend putting brief employment.  

I’ve met some applicants who were hired into very prestigious companies and so they wrongly assumed that even if they work there for three, four or five months, um, it was advantageous to show that they were hired by XYZ company and that is not generally the case. I speak for me, but I do feel that that’s a pretty solid piece of advice. I want to talk as well about parallel structure and when I say parallel structure, I’m talking about consistency in the way your resume is written and in the way your resume looks and is formatted. I’ll go down a few points here that I think will really help you to have a resume that looks pleasing to the eye. You know, you can pick up slight differences in line spacing and also the way your margins look and font size can really make your resume look like a patchwork.  

First of all, if you’re going to write in full sentences, then you need to write in full sentences for your whole resume. If you’re going to write in bullet point format, keep that format through your whole resume without full sentence structure. Personally, there’s only one type of resume where I would even use full sentence structure and that would be on what we call a skill based resume. If you don’t have a lot of professional experience and titles behind you but you are skilled in certain essential valuable ways, you might want to present a resume in a more sentence or paragraph type format based skill by skill so that you can provide the context to explain why you’re qualified, why you’re skilled in this way, but if you’re talking about achievements in your legacies in your previous employment or if you’re talking about the why your education is exceptional and qualifies you for a role, you should be using bullet point format.  This is how business decision makers write themselves. You don’t need to worry about full subject verbs in a lot of cases. You can get down to the nitty gritty and leave out unnecessary words, but you’ve got to be consistent. If you flop back and forth, it makes your resume look careless. Font size really matters. In my opinion. There shouldn’t be more than three different font sizes in a resume. I have a slightly larger font size for my name, maybe 14 or 16 I don’t go more than that. You don’t want to look pretentious. I do want people to quickly see my name and so I make it a little bit larger and that is the only place in my whole resume where I use that 14 point font. The next size would be for my section headers and for my section headers, like experience, education skills. In those headers I might use a 12 point font and then for everything else I’ll probably use an 11 or a 10.5 font and it’s as simple as that. Any more font variations makes your resume start to look a little bit sloppy. Don’t put a larger size font for the name of your company. Don’t put a uh, an italics for the dates that you worked in a place like all of that variation creates a very subtle, subliminal confusion that the eyes and the brain have to overcome so it works against you rather than making you look like a highly creative, thoughtful individual. I also want to encourage you to keep an eye on your formatting. What is the line spacing between lines, between paragraphs and your margins? It can be very tempting when you are trying to adhere to the one page rule for 10 years of experience to shrink your margins and to shrink the space between lines. But again, you need to think about the user experience for your resume. Is it pleasant to review this document or does it look like a congested block of letters? Be strategic. Be smart, edit down so that you don’t have to cram too much writing into the page, but whatever you do, however you fix your margins, however you fix your line spacings, be consistent with that. The same goes for the use of punctuation. If you’re going to end a bullet point with a sentence, no one’s going to freak out over that, but that means you got up and every bullet point with a sentence. If you’re not going to end a bullet point with a sentence, that’s my preference. Then don’t use periods. A period means you’re ending a sentence and if you’re using a bullet point, you’re probably not using sentence structure, so you could use a semi-colon.  Um, you could use a dash, you could use other types of punctuation, but it’s a little bit contradictory to use end of sentence punctuation when you’re not using sentences. Again, this is a more minor point, but in my, I noticed this as a hiring manager and it communicates to me that the person I’m dealing with has a certain, a certain understanding of professional presentation and communication. It shows your skill in presenting yourself in a polished way. So that’s my recommendation. Feel free to follow your gut on that. I want to also, as we’re talking about parallel structure, encourage you to use numbers rather than spell out numbers. Now when you write in English, if you use a number in the beginning of a sentence, you’re supposed to spell it out unless it’s a long hyphenated number. So you would spell out the number nine or the number seven, but you would use the actual digits for 26 that’s if it’s at the beginning of a sentence.  However, in a resume, I don’t recommend spelling out numbers. It it’s jarring when you see it, it feels unnecessary. 

Something that’s very valuable is to develop a list of action words that you can pull from as you write your resume. This is classic resume advice. I even heard about this back when I was in high school a million years ago, but still it does matter. You want to show what your legacy and impact has been in your university or in your previous jobs achieved, designed, innovated. These are valuable words to use so that you show that you’re not passive in you approach your work. Come up with a nice long list of them that feels genuine to you and try not to use the same action word per entry. So if I worked at company a and if I have three or four bullet points, I’m not going to use the same action word again in company a when I get down to company B. If I have to use one of those previous action words again, I can, but I’m going to also mix it up with more words. What we’re talking about here is a subliminal message to the person reading your resume that you’ve put thought and care into making this effective, simple and pleasant. And when you read the same word over and over in a document, in a book, in any type of writing, it’s obvious and it sticks out and it kind of jars you a little bit out of your scan of the document. Again, I think this is important for upgrading and elevating the quality of a resume. It’s not necessarily going to keep you from getting an interview, but it’s something that adds bonus points. 

Make sure that you are using the appropriate tense. Are you writing in present tense or past tense? So if you are describing things that you’re currently undertaking in your present job, you’re going to use the present tense. If it’s a project that’s already over, use the past tense. This is about refining and elevating. I want your resume to be better than average by the time you finish listening to this podcast, and that’s my goal. You know, you could pay six or $700 if you want to go have a professional, write your resume for you. But if that’s not something that’s realistic for you, if you follow the guidelines that I’m giving you, your resume will be better than average. It will be able to compete head to head with most other resumes. 

References are not so necessary on a resume anymore. The old resume format from 20 years ago had an objective at the top of the resume and it had references at the end of a resume. Over time. We started to see the format of references available upon request. You don’t need to put that on there and you don’t need to put your references on there at all. I know as a hiring manager that if I asked for references, you’re going to give me references. So you don’t need to inform me of that and I’m not going to call references before I meet with you. There’s a whole list of reasons I won’t go into why we don’t check references. Typically before we, uh, before we contact a candidate. So if you, if you have exceptional references, high ranking accomplished people who are willing to vouch for you, bring it to the interview, bring a nice formatted document that matches the look and feel of your resume and has the references on it, but don’t include it in the resume. It’s not necessary. Also, the objective is not necessary anymore. It is a waste of very valuable resume space. Back in the day when you would job hunt, there was a lot more cold calling than today because the only way to advertise jobs was the newspaper. Today, it is relatively inexpensive and easy to advertise jobs. So people are not just walking into random companies to ask to present a resume as much. So here’s what I would say about the objective. If you are cold calling a company, you can put an objective on the top of the resume that is specific to that company and explained the type of job you’re interested in because you’re applying for a job that’s not open. You’re basically asking to be put in a talent bank in case the job that you’re interested in opens in the future and objective in that case is helpful because as I need to look through candidates, if on your resume it says you’re interested in a regional sales job, then I know, okay, this is not an HR candidate.  This is not a logistics candidate, this is not an administrative candidate. This person wants sales other than those rare exceptions and objective doesn’t help you and it looks outdated. So that’s my recommendation on that. 

Okay. There are typically three different formats for a resume. There is an experience based format where your jobs take center stage. What qualifies you for what you’re applying for or the places and positions that you’ve worked in the past. The second format is a skill based resume and this is useful for someone who is transitioning from one industry to another. So maybe the jobs you’ve held don’t make a lot of sense for what you’re applying for today, but there are transferable skills. This is great for like military people who are looking to transition into civilian life or again moving from one industry to another. If you want to go from the medical industry to the education industry, then your medical abilities might be less relevant than your critical thinking skills or your project management skills or your talent development abilities or your, you know, leadership skills.  So these are how you might apply into a skill based resume. What a skill-based resume looks like. And you can Google this and you’ll see examples. It’s going to list in priority from the most exceptional, rare, important, valuable specialized skill on down a nice list of skills that are relevant to a very specific job for which you’re applying. And under each of those skills there’s going to be a list of either bullet points or this is the format I mentioned earlier where you might use full sentence structure, although I still think bullet points are fine and you’ll explain why you have that skill. So if I’m putting project management as one of my skills, I might put bullet point. Um, when I worked for Omega hospital, I oversaw the full rollout of a new purchasing management software. This was a $7 million project and I was the key stakeholder in ensuring the successful rollout.  This involved periodic meetings, setting milestones and holding various executives accountable. Okay. And then I moved to another bullet point where I talk about another instance of project management skills. You know, when I was at Mississippi state university, I single handedly founded the students initiative for recycling and this involved a 400 person rollout, including all Greek societies as well as other extracurricular organizations. Between March and July we instituted a full campus rollout and I led a team of 20 people to drive this process. Okay. And so these are how you would back up your claim that you’re good in project management and then you’ll go to the next skill. Maybe your next skill is talent development and you’ll talk about where you had impact with that skill over the course of your careers. So that’s the second format. That’s a skill based resume. 

The third format is education based resume.  And so if you may have only had one or two professional roles but your education is truly exceptional or if your education contains really important experiences that qualify you such as internships and uh, thesis projects that are specialized to the type of role that you are going to. This is where you’re going to start with your education and it’s not so important to just put a summary of where you went to school and when you graduated. Just like with this skill based resume, you’re going to flesh out why this education experience is relevant for you being hired in this very specific role. And then after you put the educational experience, if you’ve held part time jobs or maybe full time jobs that aren’t related to your career, you would put those afterwards in their own section. Typically in an experience based resume, your jobs go first and your education goes last, but in this case you’d put your education first and you would put your jobs last.  

All right, so we’re making some good progress here. I’m hoping that you’re resonating with this information and that you’re finding it helpful. This is the type of guidance that I really wish I had 15 years ago when I was just a few years into my career. All right. I want to just make one quick point about the dates of employment. Sometimes people will only put years when they are listing their various jobs. And I got to tell you, this is a pet peeve for a lot of hiring managers because if you say I worked for Amazon web services from 2015 to 2018, there’s a big difference between January, 2015 to December, 2018 or December, 2015 to January, 2018. That’s a difference of close to two years and you’re not telling me that information. I want to encourage you to put months and years. But again, don’t lie because if we check references, typically the only information a company will give when we call to check references are title and dates of employment.  And in every large company I’ve worked for, if someone’s dates of employment were more than 90 days off from what they put on their resume, they were in eligible for hire, even if they were an exceptional candidate, they lied. And uh, that was a deal breaker. So this was not just one policy. This was in every big company I’ve ever worked for. So I want to encourage you to be honest with that. And putting those months does matter. It looks like you’re trying to hide short employment. If you only put the years and leave out the months. 

Internships are also something that you want to make sure you include. If they are relevant. Now they may have been very important to your educational experience, but you may have changed the type of jobs you’re applying for and an internship may no longer be relevant. So you have a limited amount of space that you’re working with on a resume.  Make sure that you’re choosing wisely. There’s nothing wrong with putting a job on your resume that’s not relevant. Um, in fact, it’s better to put a substantial length of employment job down, even if it’s not relevant than to have that blank space. But, um, if you’re fighting for space, you’re gonna leave irrelevant information off. And that might be internships that might be part time jobs or other types of information. 

A couple of quick pace guidance to share with you. Now, um, stuff that doesn’t take a lot of explanation, but just some quick topics for you to keep in mind. Abbreviations, if you’re going to abbreviate abbreviate, if you’re not going to abbreviate, don’t.  be consistent. Be consistent. That is important. 

Make sure that if you’re going to use color in a resume and most cases you want to do it very sparingly. I personally have only a blue color for my headings and my name.  I don’t have any other coloring. I would get resumes from time to time that had big blocks of color. And you know, if you’re applying for a creative type role, that’s fine. But otherwise it can look gimmicky. It’s better for you to look refined and professional. Uh, in most cases. So it doesn’t mean you can’t have some contemporary flair, but edit down, right? Think like in project runway, a lot of times the advice was look at what you designed and take the last thing away. You should do that with your resume as well. If it looks busy, if it looks gimmicky, if it looks complicated, you should edit down. Also, photos are a no-no. Do not put photos on your resume and my European and Asian listeners on talking to you guys because in your cultures it’s expected that there’s a headshot, but in the U S it is not necessary.  It’s not relevant and in fact it, again, it’s jarring and it’s distracting. We don’t want a photo on your resume. You shouldn’t either. It, it’s just not, I don’t know how to say. It changes the whole tone of the document and I don’t feel, and my colleagues that I’ve spoken with don’t feel that it improves the tone. We feel that it hurts it. 

Be careful with putting social media information. Your LinkedIn is important. I feel like I could do an entire podcast episode just on LinkedIn because it’s so essential nowadays and maybe I’ll do that. You can put your LinkedIn link there, but you should not necessarily put your Facebook link or anything else like that. There is typically information in Facebook that could be detrimental. Everything from your political views to pictures of you at a bar. These are just things that if you invite someone to look at your Facebook, then you need to expect that they’re going to have a reaction to it.  Is it fair to penalize someone because they put a picture of their 30th birthday holding a beer in each hand and partying? No. Maybe that’s not fair. But you asked me to look at a picture of you partying and I’m trying to hire a professional. So be aware of the impact of giving social media information. In fact, when I job hunt, I lock all my social media accounts to private because they don’t want them being visible to someone who might make an incorrect assumption about me from that information 

Portfolios. If you are, I used to hire a lot of cooks and chefs and people like that. If you’re going to include a portfolio, make it professional, make it look good, put it in some sort of binding. Um, do not just list a string of photos at the end of your resume. It’s not, um, it doesn’t leave a good impression.  So if you are artistic, put that artistic and stylistic gift of yours into designing a portfolio and you can decide how to uh, how to do that. You could put links to a website. That’s something that’s popular now and it’s really affordable. Um, but make sure your website with your portfolio images again, looks professional and looks bought fully done. 

One of the last things that I want to say is if you are uploading a resume, you should use a PDF format. There are people who don’t have the same version of word processing software as you, and the minute that occurs, your margins can be off, your font type and font size can be off and it can make your resume very difficult to read. It can really make it look like a jumble of words. So I recommend using a PDF format always. It’s typically free to save a document in PDF format from any word processing software and it maintains the crisp look of your document.  

Also, LinkedIn needs to match your resume. So just be careful, don’t have discrepancies and dates of employment, don’t have discrepancies in titles. Make them match. It’s okay if LinkedIn has more experience and more information than your resume, but it certainly should not have less and it should not argue with your resume in any way. 

Cover letters are up to you. If you do use a cover letter, it should provide contextual information based on why you are worth the time. What is it that you’re going to do for this company? What proof do you have based on your previous experiences that you are worth meeting? That’s the only question you should be answering on a cover letter. Otherwise it’s not worth my time as a hiring manager to read it and I’d just rather not have one than skim through it and put it down. Be mindful with your cover letters and your cover letters should never be generic.  They should be personalized to the company with the name of the hiring manager. If you can find it out, you can make a phone call and ask that question. It’s not that hard to find out the name of the hiring manager, but it needs to be personalized to the company and the hiring manager and the content should be personalized to the job opening. If it’s not, I immediately stop reading it. If, if I get the slightest whiff of a form letter, I do not read it because it’s it, it’s lazy. So, uh, that’s my perspective on cover letters. 

Guys, if you have questions, I’m happy to answer questions. Email me at jo****@****************ng.com and I, uh, you know, I look forward to being of service again. My whole mission right now is to be the best person I can be by helping others do the same. And if I’m gonna hold your hand on this journey of awakening, it’s important that you have a job that feels right to your heart and soul. And that’s my goal for today and for this episode. It’s not about digging deeper into this physical world. It’s about empowering yourself to get the job of your dream that fits you. And that’s what I want to help you do as you go out there, be good to each other and never, ever forget to aim your light. Have a great day.  

This has been refracteive. I’m Johnny G. I am a personal and career coach located in Washington, DC. I work both in person and remotely with people who are ready to look inside, tune into their intuition, discover their purpose, and live the life of their dreams. If I can be of service to you, please reach out to me on Twitter at refractive life. Find me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/refractive coaching. You can visit me on my we*****@****************ng.com or you can email me at Jo****@****************ng.com. Thanks so much. And again, don’t forget, aim your light.

Magnificence is our birthright. The illusion of struggle, expectations, status, and what’s “fair” causes us to actually fight against our own greatness as we desperately seek to control our existence. We feel that somebody is hunting us down with the goal of making life hard. Yes! Something is hurting us, but the call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE! The self is the only opponent powerful enough to drag us down. And when we put down the weapon and realize that we were fighting shadows, our true power manifests and doors swing open.

In this episode of Refractive Johnny G looks into the saga of our fake battles through examples of interpersonal relationships, the epidemic of shame, and growth lessons from the allegory of Adam and Eve’s fall from grace. Are you ready to surrender? Because despite our best efforts, [spoiler alert] while we can temporarily blind ourselves to it, our magnificence always wins in the end.

Aim your light.

For similarly themed content, try these other episodes: Who Do You Think You Are? and Making Peace with Our Dark Side

Visit the Refractive YouTube page for more uplifting content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y-HQ1_9-xMnZyq7dhRl4A

More information on living your most authentic life is found at RefractiveCoaching.com and RefractivePodcast.com

TRANSCRIPT:

Ever since you can remember you felt something in your chest telling you to move, to love, to speak, to try. Day after day you pretend you don’t hear calling. Maybe you dismiss it as silliness or worse, but it’s there ready for you, and it will wait for you as long as you need. My name is Johnny G and I invite you to join me on a journey of awakening as we dare to embrace our light. This is refractive.

Good afternoon everybody. This is Johnny G and welcome to Refractive.  I’m sitting here next to a scented candle that I really love in my favorite sweatshirt on a comfortable chair and I just don’t know if life gets better than this. There’s so much joy in these little moments that surround me and I can’t speak for other people, I certainly hope that there are other people who feel the way I do, but you know, I’m sitting here and I just can’t believe that this is what qualifies as a great life for me. If you would’ve asked me, I mean not even a long time ago, just a year ago, I had a very different answer for what I think I would have wanted. But the ability to sit here on a weekday afternoon, not have to step into a job that I don’t want to do, in comfortable clothes with candles and a nice beverage anda beautiful place to sit. You know, this is, I don’t know, maybe people have known about this for a long time, but this is groundbreaking to me and I am just so grateful. I am grateful that this is where I’ve ended up. Anyway, that is definitely not the topic of today’s episode. We are looking at the concept of surrendering to your greatness.  

This was a topic that I dealt into in some detail recently at a workshop that I did and I thought it would really be a prime for this podcast, so I hope you enjoy it. I got a lot of good feedback. I still have some people who were in the workshop who are in contact with me arranging follow ups. So I think it was effective and impactful. And so I’m delighted to share it with you here on the Refractive podcast. In the recovery community where I have roots, as well as in other spiritual aspects, there is a seeming paradox that in order to find power you must stop fighting. In the 12 steps we call it surrendering your will. But the idea is that the fighting is what we’ve done our whole life. We’ve tried to fix things, we’ve tried to manage the circumstances around us and we’ve only ended up deeper in misery and conflict and frustration.  

So there is another way of looking at the tough stuff in life. And by just surrendering, stepping into flow, you are able to tap into power that’s not available to you when you are in the grips of a fight. So I took this from a slightly different angle because in my beliefs, I believe that I was created, my soul, my spirit was created by source. It is the same material as source. When I say source, that’s my word for God, higher power, Supreme being, Supreme intelligence, however you like to call it. I believe that I am like a cup full of the ocean. That is my definition of God. And that while I as a small portion of the overall Source energy, I do not equal Source. I am not God, but I am made of the exact same matter as God. And my substance is the same as God. So the same way that a cup of water out of the ocean is not the ocean yet it is exactly the ocean at the same time. That’s how I view my relationship from my soul. In my very being is all the glory and power and mystery and loveliness and light and love of God, that is what I believe I am made of. That is what I see as my birthright. So if my birthright is all of the magnificence of the glory of the universe, then the need to fight to have a barely acceptable quality of life is illusion. That is at its core at odds with my belief that I am of the same stuff as the Supreme being, and so when I want to put my life on the right track to have a successful career, two, contribute to society, to express love and receive love, to achieve whatever definitions of success I hope for in my life. There is this fallacy that I have to fight and scrounge and struggle in order to be great. In reality, I am greatness itself, you our greatness itself, that is the state of entry into this life experience that we have. It’s not something we earn through good deeds. It’s not something we earn through piety. We are simply greatness. We are magnificence itself. We are the personification of magnificence, so how can it be that we have to fight just to be mediocre? That is the point that I closely examined in saying, I’m going to flip the script on this. I’m going to say that the fighting I’m doing is not to be great–the fighting I’m doing is to stay out of my greatness. And as I looked more closely into this concept, this really carried a lot of weight for me. And it seemed to make sense.  

You may or may not agree with this primary point that I’m making, and that’s okay because I believe that even if you see this from a different angle, maybe you don’t believe were made from the same stuff as God. Maybe you don’t believe you are a cup full of the ocean, you might see this differently. That’s okay. My point is that we are struggling to be what we simply are, and that when we stop directing our energy to the struggle, we are free to flourish. This applies to all aspects of our life.  

I want to start this by, I’m going to my absolute favorite quote in the Bible. Now, I told you in last episode that I am not a Christian and that is the truth. But I do think that there are stories and allegories that have some deep spiritual wisdom. So I just say that because there are many people in my life who become suspicious when they hear someone talk about the Bible: that they’re trying to be roped in and converted. And I want to promise you that that is not my goal. I want to use a particular story in the Bible for the spiritual message that is contained in its allegory. So that really is my goal. So back to my point was this amazing quote. It’s my favorite quote in the entire Bible, and it is Genesis 3:11 when God is talking to Adam and Eve and he says, “Who told you that you were naked?”

I love this, this passage because there’s so much richness to this experience that’s being explained. So, for those of you who may not be as well versed in the Genesis story, the serpent had convinced Eve that she should go against God’s instructions and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She then went to Adam and told Adam that the serpent had given her information that God had not been fully truthful and that it was okay to eat of this fruit and that it would have a positive impact. And as they ate from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they began to see the world differently. And one of the ways that this immediately manifested was they felt ashamed for being naked. So according to this story, at one point in time, Adam and Eve were blissfully ignorant of their nakedness, just like any animal in nature. They felt no shame, no awareness. The idea of nakedness wasn’t even a concept. So it certainly wasn’t a concern or a worry. However, the minute that they put their will ahead of the plans that they’re creator had laid out for them, the concept of shame manifested in this idea of being embarrassed of my nakedness. So let’s think about this in modern terms. Maybe you’ve seen this show Naked and Afraid. It’s a reality show where people are dropped in harsh wilderness and they’re naked and they have no resources and there are cameras that film them as they survive. Okay. In this reality show, as in the garden of Eden, there is no way to manufacture clothing. You have leaves and twigs and bark and that’s about it. So the next step for Adam and Eve as they feel this shame is they decide to take leaves and make clothing out of it. So one second, there’s no awareness of being naked. It’s not a concern. It is not troublesome at all. The next second where no problem once existed, there’s shame felt by Adam and Eve was so severe that they are now desperately trying to manufacture coverings out of leaves. How dramatic must this shame be and how unnecessary was this shame? Because one second before there was no concern, then there was a mind-created concern that literally didn’t exist before, that was now all consuming. So as they hear God approaching, Genesis says they hide and God says, where are you?  And Adam and Eve say, well, we heard you coming and we were naked and we didn’t want you to see us like that. So we hid. And this is where God says, who told you that you are naked? Because this was a concept that was not even in existence before this. So there are a few lessons to learn here. Number one, we truly do create our own reality. When we believe something is important, it becomes important. We have this manifest story, power to create scenarios. It is a beautiful, amazing part of the human existence. We get to choose what matters. And there is literally no other authority that gets to fight with us. We choose what is important and we make it so they decided the need for clothes was essential. And it was. So number two, this was the first instance of shame in human creation according to the Bible.  So, this launch of the concept of shame means that the lesson for Adam and Eve was that when you step out of the grand design, the glory and the magnificence of the birthright that you were given, when you reject it and step away from that, here comes shame, hurt, pain, suffering. These are the lessons that I take from this, uh, from this writing and I apply it to my current day because I can absolutely give you examples where I decided to become an architect for circumstances and situations that were around me. And as I did that, I created pain, suffering, shame, embarrassment, frustration, anger, conflict. In fact, again, I can’t speak for other people. I have perceptions that I hold on to, what I see other people go through, but I’ll just speak for myself. It’s almost always painful when I try, when I have an agenda, it’s almost always painful when I choose how something needs to be.  And I pull a Jean-Luc Picard and make it so. I don’t know if you feel that way, but my plans, my architected desires, when they are not aligned with the flow of the universe, they hurt. And there are whole aspects of my life that are dotted with pain along the way because I had to have X, Y, Z. I needed this career. I needed this neighborhood. I needed this person in my life. I needed to look and feel this way. I needed to be respected in this way. That’s a really valuable lesson for me, that I pull from that writing. So let’s tie this back to what we’re talking about, surrendering to our greatness. That’s after all the main concept of today’s episode in order to surrender to the greatness. That means that we are fighting against the greatness. And I’d love to ask you, uh, please feel free to email

Me at jo****@****************ng.com.  Feel free to send me an email. I’d love to hear how you fight against your own greatness. Or maybe you don’t have an example at the moment, but stop. Press pause on this podcast and think about where have you fought against your greatness? Where have you decided to fight to stay out of the magnificence that you were born to enjoy? I think of situations my friends have told me about how they no longer felt that the relationship they were in was nourishing and satisfying. But the idea of starting over or being alone was painful or the idea of “wasting” all the time and effort they put into this relationship made walking away an unacceptable choice. And so instead of the life of magnificence that is the birthright, there is fear that I’m going to waste my effort. I’m going to look like a fool.  

I’m going to feel alone. I’m never going to be loved again. I’m not enough in society if I don’t have a partner who’s gonna wipe my behind when I’m 90 years old and am incapable of self care. These fearful ideas cause us to fight every signal that’s inside of us to walk away lovingly from the situation XYZ. Just walk away lovingly. Follow your heart, follow your guidance. I’m telling you to walk away. I’m telling you to love yourself enough to say no and walk away. But we fight. Oh, I must be wrong. No, that can’t be right. That can’t be the correct guidance I have. That can’t be true. That doesn’t make any sense. We love each other. He loves me. I love her. It can’t be right to walk away. Okay. Well the good news is we each get to choose what’s “right.” There’s no one to enforce that. It’s part of the human experience. We decide what matters and um, no one’s gonna. No one’s going to force you. So if that is what your insides tell you is best for you, then you should do it. 

I have a similar situation. When we hang out. It just doesn’t feel good any more. And I don’t understand why- I don’t. I’ve really tried to understand what, what is it that’s changed with my relationship with this person? Why doesn’t it feel good to spend time together? And, I don’t know if the other person is aware or not. Maybe for them, nothing has changed. But for me, I know that after spending time together, I feel uneasy. I feel uncomfortable. And so this is another example. The love that is my birthright is saying, stop. This doesn’t feel good. Okay, talk about it. Bring it up, discuss but don’t maintain the current path. The current path is no longer appropriate. If it was appropriate, it wouldn’t feel wrong. It wouldn’t be so painful. 

To date, I haven’t necessarily listened to the greatness that’s within me that saying, love yourself enough to take care of your needs and listen to your guidance and it hurts. I got to tell you, it hurts because now I pretend, which is a lie, right? Pretending is a lie. I pretend that I’m just as happy to hang out as I’ve always been because I didn’t want to hurt this person’s feelings. This person has been so good to me. I don’t want to disrespect this person. What if I’m wrong? What if I’m crazy? What if this is just a phase? What if I’m just going through something for a moment? You know, and those, that’s what’s kept me in this painful pattern when in reality, if I just got quiet and listened for the guidance that has already been given to me, I would know how to avoid that pain.  

And that is what I’m talking about when I say I have not yet surrendered to the greatness that has been guaranteed to me by my birth right. Instead, I choose to fight the situation and force my will like Adam and Eve in this example, force their will. And when I force my will over what feels appropriate, it hurts. And when it hurts, I am not standing in the magnificence that I have a right to stand in. 

In the workshop that I mentioned earlier, I had a participant of the workshop hold up a plate of butter and I asked her, I gave her a lighter and I said, okay, you’ve seen melted butter before. I’d like you to melt this butter. And during the workshop just keep it in a liquid state. And maybe about five or 10 minutes into the workshop she quit. It was not easy to melt the butter. And I had hoped that maybe there might a few other creative efforts in carrying out the assignment. But at the end of the day, she said, no it’s not worth my effort to do this because it doesn’t work. I either don’t have the tools or I don’t have the circumstances to do what you’re asking me to do and it’s a waste of my time so I’m not going to do it. And the point of this exercise was that the natural state of butter at room temperature is a solid. And we, with technology and tools and resources and willpower can take that butter and make it a liquid, but the liquid is not the nature of that butter at this temperature. So as this lady tried to keep the butter melted, the butter fought her nonstop, and as we debrief the exercise, my point was that you are capable to assert your will! You can melt that butter and you can continue to apply heat and you can keep that butter in a liquid form for as long as you’ve got the energy, but you’re gonna get tired at some point. You have to go to the bathroom, you have to go to sleep. At some point you have to stop, but guess what? The butter will never stop because you cannot fight a natural state. It’s like holding up a book out in front of you with straight arms. The book isn’t heavy and you can hold it out there, but eventually you’re going to fail at trying to maintain your arm straight out. It doesn’t matter how strong you are because gravity will never, never, never stop fighting you, so you can try. But what we learned from that butter example, what we can learn from trying to hold a book straight out ahead of us for you know, for a long period of time, what we learn is that this is a painful, permanent, impossible battle. Let me say that again: this is a painful, permanent, impossible battle with only an imaginary payoff trying to fight the natural state of what is- it’s a painful battle with an imaginary pay off. At the end of the day, the only substance strong enough to cut a diamond is a diamond and the only substance strong enough to hurt me is me. And so I have to be a willing participant and this fight against my nature, no one else walking on this earth has the true power to hurt me. No one can keep me out of my greatness. My magnificence is a part of my inner structure and so the only person who is strong enough to dim my light, the only person who is strong enough to hurt me is me. And so if I don’t want to have my light dimmed, if I don’t want to have a painful, stressful life, there’s only one person with the power to stop fighting and that’s me.  

That is the lesson that they walk away with from this workshop – because the opponent is only ever me. It can only be me. There is no other opponent. You know, I referenced recovery and the recovery community a lot because it’s such an, a formative part of my story, but the reason I do is that the whole point of the 12 steps is to create a spiritual awakening that changes who we are as a person. So as I talk about as I offer this podcast that is about personal growth. And as I reference my own experience, it’s really hard to isolate that out of my recovery experiences as well. That said, there is a book, uh, that’s a part of the recovery literature called 12 steps and 12 traditions. And on page 92 of that book, there’s a quote that says, “it is a spiritual Axiom that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause there is something wrong with us. If somebody hurts us and we are sore, we are in the wrong also.” This is such a powerful aspect of a spiritual awakening because the opponent is me. It’s like that horror movie “When a stranger calls”:  the call is coming from inside the house! The person coming after you is you! The person holding you down is you! This is mindblowing. The person who’s trying to make you fail is you.  So stop, stop, stand up. Acknowledge your magnificence, acknowledged the stuff you’re made of. Ask yourself, why am I doing this to myself? Where is the pain that’s confusing me right now? Where is the hurt or that disappointment that’s making me feel that I have to do this? And sit, watch it. Love it, love it. Send love to the pain and it will fade and you will heal and it will be one less illusory temptation for you to fight your own greatness. When we surrender, we restore sanity. When we stop fighting our greatness, we are greatness. I’m going to wrap up the episode today with a pretty famous quote. It comes from Marianne Williamson, um, who people have recently gotten to know because she was a political candidate for the presidency. But, um, before this, for decades, she has been on the forefront of spiritual thought, um, in this movement of awakening.  

In one of her books she wrote the following: “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous. Actually, who are you not to be? You’re a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us. It’s an everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”  

Thank you Marianne, and thank you to all of you who have sat and listened today. I hope that some of the material we covered today resonated with you. At the end of the day, my goal is to be the best person that I can be by helping others do the same. My name is Johnny G. I’m here in Washington, D C, I work with people in person and remotely who are seeking to step into their own magnificence. It would be an honor to help you on your path. Please feel free to email me with any questions at jo****@****************ng.com, or you can tweet me at @refractivelife. Thank you so much, everyone. Have an amazing day and above all, don’t forget to aim your light.

Tags: magnificence; relationships; birthright; higher power; soul; source; Adam and Eve; struggle; shame; manifest; spiritual growth; surrender; coaching; 12 steps; fighting; illusion; recovery; refractive